The Astral Pulse

Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences => Welcome to Permanent Astral Topics! => Topic started by: cube on July 31, 2004, 02:53:09



Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: cube on July 31, 2004, 02:53:09
That is very interesting about the stabilizing clock displays, why is it do you think that they eventually stabilize instead of continually fluxuating?

RB talks about walking into photos during a projection in order to teleport there. That would be an RTZ->RTZ teleportation.

Do you think that if someone made a picture of their impressions of somewhere in the higher astral planes you could just print out the picture and walk into it in order to have an RTZ->Higher plane teleportation?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on July 31, 2004, 08:56:16
I suppose it won't work but we have to test it to be sure. Have you got some idea for an experiment?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: cube on July 31, 2004, 13:26:36
I'm going to try printing out a picture of the API, shine a flashlight on it, then try walking into it in a projection:

http://www.astralpulse.com/locale/

I haven't had a full projection lately, just a lot of wake/sleep boundary type experimentation so maybe I'm due to have a controlled OBE soon and I can try this.

There's also this guy who reportedly can send a projector on to higher planes:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/LucidCrossroads/gatekeeper.htm


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on July 31, 2004, 16:19:24
quote:
That is very interesting about the stabilizing clock displays, why is it do you think that they eventually stabilize instead of continually fluxuating?
Because I've observed that countless occasions. They could show the real time even when they are not at their right place or has a changed look. I have to hypothesis to explain this mystery: 1. those clocks are not real but there is something in our mind that know the time all the time. The syncronisation of our inner-knowledge and the picture of the clock outside help we to believe that we indeed having an RTZ-OBE which is, as I said before, necessery to hold the RTZ-state. 2. the filaments of the semi-condensed energy body keep contact with the displays although their transmitted sensory informations remain heavily interpretated, thus guised. I suspect that somehow both of these hypothesis could be right, because our inner and outer experiences aren't separated so keenly as we tend to think.

I have to say that the gatekeeper guy from that site is very suspicious. He really looks like he is on something right now. He's even bald like RB. But seriously, it is an interesting idea. I mean, creating a virtual guy then declaring that he is able to transport anyone where he or she wants to be, is genuine. People will believe in that and it will happen. But their experiences will remain hopelessly as it is, a lucid dream.

However, if sufficient aspects of those dreams would be match with anothers' by using a common entrance point like the image of the API then the dream could be shared. In this sense RTZ-OBEs are shared dreams too, they are shared by our waking society.

Please keep me posted here or in PM about the results of your experiments.


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: Gandalf on August 01, 2004, 11:44:58
upstream_

Thanks for the article!

In my view, I find that people get too hung up on trying to establish what is an 'astral projection' from what is a 'lucid dream', from what is a 'normal dream'.

imo, all the above experiences are in fact THE SAME THING. They are ALL astral experiences; even normal dreams are subconscious scenarios being played out on the astral level, albeit on a low level.

The actual difference between them is YOUR OWN LEVEL OF CONSCIOUS AWARENESS. If you enter with almost zero conscious awareness, this s 'dream' level; we do this every night. A little more and it is called a lucid dream, and if you enter fully awake, then you are APing. Entering fully 'awake' or with full conscious awareness is the goal of ap techniques.

I think it is important to realize that the real difference is in fact your own level of conscious awareness, as then you begin to see that you DO in fact have a (low level) astral experience every night, and that in fact, you CAN do it. Achieving astral states does not seem so daunting in future if you see it in this way.

Also you avoid the false issue of 'was it really ap or just a dream?'. Instead you see that they are one and the same; however, you might set yourself the goal of increasing your awareness next time you are out.
imo the expression 'it was just a dream' is one of the worst in the language. People generally take 'dreams' for granted and have no idea of their true nature.

A good tip I recommend is next time you find yourself out of body or even waking up from a 'dream'; ie your level of conscious awareness rises one night:
Ask aloud for mental clarity... sounds daft I know, but if you ask for it, I have found that your level of awareness does indeed rise to waking level.
Once this is done you can dismiss your immediate astral surroundings, which is a scenario generated by your subconscious mind (what you call 'dream' level), you will find yourself in the astral proper, or even in the RTZ floating around somewhere.

Regards,
Douglas


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 02, 2004, 16:59:17
Thanks for your feedback, it's a great complement for my guide. I agree with you in many aspect except three....

1. I think dreams and astral projections are different. Speaking in the terms of The Monroe Institue (which popularity is increasing
in this forum) normal dreams occur in upper-mid Focus 22. The startpoint of my guide is the lower F22 which is the result of getting conscious control on a false awakening type state. "Real astral experiences" tend to occur above F23.

2. You could hallucinate an entire dreamscape with full awareness.

3. By speaking your intent out loud you're able to raise your awareness above its waking level, however without enough "sensory surface" to grasp into chance for waking up fully will increase with every passing moment.

I think I didn't emphasize this awareness thing enough only mentioned it. So the following is a complement to my guide.

If I raise my level of awareness, the dream environment will gradually become frayed around me. First dream characters will disappear. They don't like it, so they will try to disturb my practice. To avoid that I lock my dream room (enclosed practices) or I'll fly to the roof of my house (which could be the starting place of the outdoor practices).

As a result of increasing my awareness by slow counting, my vision become instable. This occurs in jumps so I'd better to keep my perception in constant sync with the rapidly changing dream. For that purpose I try to notice all the changes on fly and grab objects around me to anchor myself into the dream. If I do the awareness rising for a prolonged period of time eventually I would wake up or I have to re-separate again from my slumbering body to avoid waking up. However, this reseparation takes place again into low F22, because after separation I'll find myself temporally blind and couldn't get vision again before my state reach the stable visual environment of F22, the dream state. This is a pseudo-OBE, controlled false awakening that occurs in a hallucinated room and won't result in RTZ-projection.

Normally I do the awareness raising on the balcon of my house. At the same time I move my attention between points of the hallucinated balcoon and the space outside in order to keep myself grounded into the dream. My balcon is the F21 "landing unit" of my F22 "spaceship" which is my hallucinated house. When quality of the space I look upon from the balcon get the quality of enormous depths I would know I've reached F21 from from outside as opposed to the normal phasing process at which F21 is reached on a "centrifugal vector", from the body through a window of the mind's eye. Nevertheless, both cases will result in 3D blackness but by rising awareness the 3D blackness will surround the remeiniscent of my hallucinated house.

F21 is the edge of space and time as we know it. You could see various entrance structures to various states of consciousness in the form by which your brain interpret them. The brain should be highly active in this state according to the fast fourier analysis of the TMI F21 preset (see last post @ http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13338&whichpage=1[url]) perhaps in order to interpret the various energy structures that we can perceive from this state. According to my theory about fluctocondensation in this state your "energy body" is a highly decondensated energy field meaning that its size should be commensurate with the size of the Earth's magnetopshere.By using those entrance structures I can zoom into the "deep astral" (see for example my trip into "crap heaven" @ [url]http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13578), or, as a second option, I could further condensate my energy body by the enclosed (see my guide) or outdoor practices. Along by the process the energy body will decrease in size and increase in density to the point it is able to interact with dense energy fields of "physical" objects. Normally, the dreamer couldn't observe this process directly, though my hypothesis is based exactly on those anomalous experiences.

In F21 there are two options ahead of me to getting real experiences: 1. I could order my system to manifest the symbol of my target into the space then I zoom onto it by fixing my attention on and carefully avoiding flying at the same time; or 2. I could go back to my house to practice enclosed fluctocondensation in a sensory secure environment just as I've described in my guide.

I hope people will understand the significance of this practices, that are, as I see it, the missing link from the current knowledge of astral explorers. I'm sure many would understand this and it would be obvious from now without remembering me or the fact that this guide was ever written.



Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: rantboi on August 02, 2004, 17:15:54
Upstream, maybe if you wrote in a more reader-friendly fashion (which might or might not include 'plain' english), more people would reply to this thread.

Unless your goal is to only have intelligent dicussions with like-minded people, and not to inform those 'plain' folks who need help with astral projection or whatever.

Just trying to see what your goal is when posting these things...

-Ater

PS: From my experince, most people aren't overly obsessed with science. On the contrary, it bores them.


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: Gandalf on August 02, 2004, 23:55:34
Rantboi_ I agree with you to a certain extent, but at the same time I also like to see good 'left brained' astral exploration as described by Upstream, even if it involves a more focused reading.

Thanks for your input Upstream.

Douglas


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: rantboi on August 03, 2004, 21:57:01
Gandalf, I agree, but if his goal is to reach the 'regular' folks, he should probably take it down a notch.

Upstream, I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that. Just telling you what I think could improve your response with the more regualr folk. (If they are your goal audiance.)

-Ater

PS: I feel b*tchy.[8)]


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 04, 2004, 14:15:27
Perhaps the text is little demanding, but hey, the goal isn't lesser. It's a guide about how to project into the real-time zone in order to break through the veil of hallucination and let astral projections possible.

I'm aware the fact that this guide may not for everyone, however, no doubt in my mind, people who need this information would find it at the right time and would understand it properly. Spreading informations is the purpose of this forum. Isn't it?

Also, this thread is indeed for informing people, not for conversation. Why? Because it's a guide. I've done my best to explain what I'm doing and what for. I've tried to give some hypothesis how those might supposed to work as well.

If something is not clear about it I might answer, because this information is very important. However, it would be better if everyone would understand it on his own and would find further application themselves. This practice speaks for itself, try it if you are interested. At that point conversation would be more than nice - I want to learn new tricks too.

See, I got a promise: if I get my job done I would evolve further. So I done my best by appling a strategy which now seems to failed. I have no talent nor time to explain myself in plain English. As you see, I have even great difficulties with the grammar. So I've chosen a language that was felt most appropriate. It is free from personal interpretations - almost exact like science. Unfortunately, it is far from science but still boring.

Look, we have to work very hard for our extasy. That means study, understanding and exercises in our waking hours in order to being able to enjoy ourselves in the astral without all that ballast. Logical thinking is the human way to understand ourselves and the world around. Mixing scientific understanding with mysticism could be our future.

If someone take the time to understand this guide would see that its essence is actually very simple. I've just tried to squeeze into it as much supporting information as I could. I'm in hurry, from September I wouldn't much time to posting here.

Did you take the time to understand my reply Rantboy? I don't think so. Just look at the time of our posts...

But we remain friends. Chrew it! To solve this abrupt tension...hihi...check out this link...it's for you.

http://img1.uploadimages.net/305366h.jpg

Is it good, isn't it?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: rantboi on August 04, 2004, 15:35:51
quote:
Did you take the time to understand my reply Rantboy? I don't think so. Just look at the time of our posts...


Everything went fine until I came to this line. Why wouldn't I take the time to understand? (BTW, it's 'rantboi,' and if that's hard, just call me Ater.)

 
quote:
Is it good, isn't it?


It was okay. I didn't really laugh much.[8D]

-Ater


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 04, 2004, 16:31:09
That pic somehow got me. I especially like the guy's demanding look. He seems disciplined but probably in a wrong way. Maybe this is the case with me.

Stay away from this thread until you get some constructive, Ater. Your second input was useless, obviously driven by anger or frustration or something else I don't want to contact with. If you still need to say something send me a PM. (The mistype of your name wasn't deliberated).

>>> upstream


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: rantboi on August 05, 2004, 12:36:21
quote:
Stay away from this thread until you get some constructive, Ater.


You're the only one who's getting a bit uncounstructive in this thread. Instead of acting like an adult to discuss the things I kindly brought up, you resort to attacking me.

Just to make things clear: You have no right to tell me where I should or shouldn't post. This is a public forum. You posted a thread. I had a few questions. You decided to attack me for no apparent reason. Unless you can lock the threads you don't want me to respond to, I have every right to post where ever I want.[;)]

-Ater

PS: If you have any more personal attacks, please send them to my PM box.


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 06, 2004, 18:55:22
[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/224304fireman.jpg[/image]

You're right, Ater. No more personal attack, I promise. This post is dedicated to you..

Tom wrote:
quote:
I have often wondered how much of our perception in reality relies on sensory inoput. If putting a number on it, it would not surpise me if 1% sensory input, and 99% imagination is enough to keep us stabalized and locked into "physical" perception.
I too won't be surprised but heard the estimated ratio of 1/9. We may have to consider the possibility that the external world isn't exactly the way it appears to be. The brain uses very little sensory input to create the world. According to some modern theory about sight visual perception is more like a special form of dreaming, an upstream of memories.
 
Along with the fact that fixed gazing in lucid dreams will stop rapid eye movements and rock REM sleep, hindering the reflux of memories by disregarding peripheral sensory input could serve as an explanation for the vulnerability of dream objects. For example, after we get used to a new home change of objects/furnitures could be totally unnoticed. It's quite possible that we walk inside the mental representations of our homes even in our waking hours, and in this case our real environment isn't much differing from the F22 "landing unit." Or at least isn't, until someone take the effort to broke the reflux by forcing silence and mindully observing his environment. This would be more powerfull if one combined with fixed gazing (trakata). I have some intersting experiences about eye fixation in both states (in wakfulness mostly via mirror gazing) that led me to conclude that in this sense there are no much differences between waking and dreaming.

I have had the impression countless of times - mosty after separating into an instable dream room - that my environment is changing somehow just over my capacity to catch it in action. The feeling of being in an ad hoc reality in very uncomfortable but there are many machanism designed to hide that state (my favorite: being unable to see). At first, I didn't understand why this effect would wear off by time I spend in a given lucid dream. Later I realised that not my perception got better by time but my lucidity is lessened, because every time when I've done some sensory exercises I got aware that gloomy feeling again. It is like being enclosed in a bubble that in could be the result of a greater stream of refluxed memories we used to have in our waking states.

The central and peripheral part of our vision seem governed by different aspects of our consciousness. The central vision could be our exclusive window onto "external reality." It is a frustratingly little spot and the brain does various trick to hide this fact alone. Thinking about this makes me feel enclosed and squeezed into a very limited reality. Perhaps peripheral vision even doesn't exist in this context, because it is obviously ruled by subconscious processes and serve as a playground for the reflux of sensory memories. Paradoxically it seems to be a more authentic door for our perception. It's a widespeard belief that peripheral vision is the favorite place for spirits to manifest onto.

It could be turn out that we are unable to perceive other than our preprogrammed shematas. It is like playing Worms 3D on the Net. Every player has a computer capable to dechiper and display in 3D those very little data stream that responsible for creating visual coherence of the shared game. It is like we would be maniacs in the end of our personal tunnels, or we would be gigantic beings that seeing the same peepshow through their little personalised holes. I want to turn my attention away from this hole, because I desperately yearn for a more brighter and broader room to exist in. Funny that I try to accomplish it by spending so many hours looking to a monitor or the darkness behind my closed eyes. But the most important practices I know that serve this purpose are those I written in my guide - thanks for Castaneda. Dreaming could be the preferred way to free ourself from the world-illusion. I suppose it could be accomplished by 10-30 years of practice, so I need about 3-23.

One of the simplest method to check the realness of our experiences is fixating our gazes. In astral projections sensory processing is supposedly inaffected by the brain and physical eyes are motionless, thus fixating dream gaze doesn't matter at all. The practice of serial zooming as I've described at the end of my guide (outdoor practices) could work as a gentle force for gradually stopping REM sleep without loosing visuals. The first station is the RTZ somwhere between REM & NREM sleep. The brain is still very active but not as much as in F21 or lucid dreaming.

F21 could be reached by increasing awareness and expectation for seeing through the veil of hallucinations. If I get a sight of an astral object in F21 and able to zoom to it my brain should drop into deep sleep within a couple of seconds - a trick we are unable to do from wakfulness. At that point movements of "astral eyes" will be detached from they biological counterparts which become motionless in NREM. According to my theory about binaural entertainment (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13338&whichpage=1) exclusively higher brain areas are targeted by wave patterns of F23-F27 in order to shut down the cortex into 4Hz. This amount of cortical syncronisation (low theta) makes those acute perceptions & sharp cognition totally impossible that one used to experience in any regular astral projection. This means that astral projections are very little if any to do with the brain.

If one able to set up an experiment in which the subject need to use his higher mental functions to solve a problem that require great amount of real time even a simple EEG-monitoring session would prove or disprove astral projection. (I plan to bring an EEG to home and check out this transitions. It would be interesting to monitor hippocampal activity too to figure out whether download of astral memories are occur on fly or after/around awakening. True nature of OBEs & Phasing could be revolve around the results.) Normally OBE type astral experiences are squezzed into moments of our "real time". They are flashes of vison that require mind split to get downloaded but I've read a TMI script about someone who channeled his experiences on fly. Obviously there were no loss of memories except those that were not verbalised. What does it mean? Another dissociaton between brain parts? I still advise Matti Pitkänen writings about semi-trance http://ftp://rock.helsinki.fi/pub/misc/matpitka/cbooknew/semitrancec.pdf. According to him some "brain parts" (my note: not anatomical parts but "dispersed" functional units) are able to dissociate and get "asleep" or entangled with our Higher Selves while others remain "awake" and channel the experience. If this is possible we have something we need to think about Tom because our favorite matter, connection between OBE & Phasing seems to revolve around those experiences.

quote:
It makes one wonder what the stabilzing characteristics of RTZ consist of.
In an RTZ-OBE central vision is somewhat "blurred" (or more precisely it is very difficult to observe). As opposed to dreaming periferal vision seems to be responsible for state stabilizaton that, as I suspect, is the result of a "sensory feedback." The stabilizing effect of sensory feedback is supposed to work in the following loop-mechanism: (1) the energy body "perceives" the object through interaction between their overlapping energy fields, (2) something in our mind/brain translate the raw sensory input into the most appropriate dream picture (there is lesser interpretation thus more objectivity when the "condensation degrees" of the interacting fields are matching), and (3) driven by the expectation that things can not disappear our sensory system try to hold the state of energy body that makes this perception possible thus stabilizing its current state. The three components form a feedback loop mechanism that will decrease in effect as the experience become more contamined by hallucinations. The energy body start to fluctuate and eventually the state that responsible for RTZ-perception will collapse. Density of the energy body will rapidly decrease accompained by increasing uncertainity of its localisation (process of decondensation from F12). As a result of decondensation new types of fields come into view or the old ones are become so heavily interpreted that cannot be considered otherwise than hallucination. Of course it is only a hypothesis and currently I see no way for validation.

Thanks for the DeGracia writings. It is interesting seeing him joined to the LaBerge team. I've read his book, 'do OBE' - he was obviously a stone occultist at that time... How did you get that picture of my camel, Krapulax? Have you found him? Feed him with carrots and he will let you to sleep with him. Anyways, thanks for your wife for the photo she sent to me. Seems you and you guide make some serious efforts in F10 (ref. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13528).

[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/879984f10.jpg[/image]


Sad to see you cut your sideburns...



Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 07, 2004, 16:24:09
"Wakefulness is nothing other than a dream-like state modulated by the constraints of sensory inputs." That definately sounds like something I would say, but it was, in fact Rudolfo Llinas, Professor of Physiology and Biophysics at New York University, School of Medicine. It was difficult to find him because I've remembered him as Rudolf Leonard.

I've found a relevant paper by Google with the following keywords: <"rudolfo llinas" dreaming> @:
http://mind.ucsd.edu/papers/diss/disshtml/chapter3/ch3.html
For my cybernetic approach, especially the section 3.4 is interesting.

An another shot of wisdom from Ramesh Jain: "Perception is basically a controlled hallucination process."

That's enough for now. I'm sure you as a clinical psychologist (and enthusiastic but amateur hypnotist like many of us) are already know about hypnodisk, but others might be surprised and have some fun with it. It can be downloaded from this link:

http://www.hypnotic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/freeserve/hypno2.exe

Double click on the downloaded file and choose target directory to unzip (for example: 'C:'). I've scanned it with Avast! 4.0 HE and found no virus inside. Double click on the unzipped hypno.exe file then press space. You'll see a vortex. Stare into the middle for about 1 min then stare into your face in a mirror or simply look down on your hand.

Thanks for your inputs Tom. I've understand and agree with you. Now I want to paint something...

Seems you do remember me from my previous nick, s***stream...  Just to know: my anal intruder electrodes are almost ready. I'll shake people into lucidity from behind regardless to how fat, lazy one is or being in the state of thinking about sex, consumption or finding the romantic love of his/her life all the time! Be prepared.

>>> upstream


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: wisp on August 10, 2004, 17:35:10
upstream,
Thanks for all the info. I find it all so interesting. I find it's easy to follow what you write.It takes some thinking about.

I have a stupid question. Could you give your explanation of what phasing means? I can't seem to understand it's exact meaning.


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 12, 2004, 18:05:00
Not a stupid question at all, but considering the importance of Phasing and my limited experiences with it, I'm afraid I'm not a qualified person to answer you.

My experiences with Phasing are limited to my first two years of OBEing. At that time I was thought it is an advanced form of dreaming - something I still believe in. For me the meaning of dreaming is that has changed forever.

As you may already know, Phasing is technically a special form of WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) in which you would go directly into the dream state without having the feelings of leaving your body.

Until recently, I was more interested in its theoretical aspects. Now it seems I'm at the verge of unite those theories with my OBE & dreaming practices to form a new, personal style of OBEing.

I cant stop until I find my peace,

>>> upstream





Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: wisp on August 14, 2004, 15:58:36
Thanks upstream,
I can understand what WILD is because I experience that sometimes. Since I do the polarity flip maneuver while going into an obe I may bypass the other forms of phasing as you have suggested in a previous post. I do know I have not advanced at all. This is probably because of lack of trying or practice.I'm learning things though.

Good luck on your plans, it sounds very exciting.

Do you have help from other spirits in your travels?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 17, 2004, 18:57:32
I have some tricks to invoke help while traveling. Asking questions aloud and plugging the ears of my dream body has a great potential for communication. Most of the times I didn't understand the first words because tuning to the voice takes some time. Some voices are like coming from a telephone center coupled with some mechanical noises, others seem to come from real persons. I have been heard a broad range of voices from young boys to old ladies. I need more experimentation to uncover all the possible sources, however it has been proven that most voices comes from other dreamers and independent entities.

Once I tried to believe that a voice of a young man I was heard in a dream came from someone who is outside the scope of my perception. When I imagined that he we in a situation of trying to speak through invisible walls, I experienced a brief sensory chaos. The next moment I found myself in a calm conversation with him sitting at a table. Our dreams seemd to mixed around the focal point of that table. Later I worked out a simple method for uniting sensory bubbles based on a specific attention driving similar I've described in my guide.

On the other hand, the robotic voices seem to come from my energy body/subconsciousness. I've found that dealing with my energy body is require hightened awareness and clear purpose. I've reached a point where I use real definitons to get a desired outcome. This is especially true when I'm fly in an autopilot mode. It happened to me after many years of flying that got to point where I'm practically unable to fly on my own. There is a gloomy environment between lucid dreams and RTZ-projections. Well that is where I got stuck. Moving is very difficult in that state yet I've observed a heavy traffic. Sometimes the autopilot function of my energy body the only option to move. Sometmes it seems indistinguishable from getting external help.

I could use regular dream characters as shells to let guidance into my dreams. All I have to do is talk to dream people as they are already would be animated by the person/force I want to contact with. I create an empty shell by asking aloud a family members to come in, then I start to controll our conversation by pretending that the figure is already inhabited by my target. They look will change accordingly, mostly in unnoticided jumps. I am still extremly cautious with those "people" because my experiences make me believe that some odd things are waiting outside of my sensory bubble all the time ready to use any means to get inside.

Recently I got the idea for an another method that seems the most secure so far. What I do is simply speaking to the air like someone would be at that spot. It's funny but works great if I want more than a disembodied sound, but not want to go as far as to manifest a full apparition. I've read an interesting article about the connection between lateral preference of sensed presence and its emotional connotation so the next time I would try to imagine my guide at my left. By the way, the most friendy helps I could ever get seem to choose this invisible form. This forms represent an unobtrusive but potent help, something that able to transport quickly and without exerting any uncertain aim. Sometimes they transport me as a wind or armchar, sometimes I feel myself being grabbed at the level of my stomach.

I'm interested in your experiences with the polarity flip maneuver (I like this name!)


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: wisp on August 18, 2004, 16:07:26
Wow! Thanks for all these desciptions, upstream. I can now compare these with other dream characters.

I had a slight variation of my polarity flip recently. I was visiting my daughter at her place (change of sleeping location). We were both drifting off to sleep. She had something additional to say to me. I was already in the flip zone. I thought she was in front of me talking and I was looking at her in the dark. Then I realized I was disoriented (I must get past that misnomer). Then I came back, she was behind me. It was weird.


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 20, 2004, 18:58:35
Yeah that was a spontaneus flip. I still didn't practice it from waking. I'm sad seeing the days passing by.

Good luck to everyone,

>>> upstream


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: wisp on August 25, 2004, 21:01:41
upstream,
Yesterday during a nap I recognized I did a polarity flip while waking up from a nap. During this time I misinterpreted my environment. The location was wrong, the person (a neighbor) I misinterpreted as a strange intruder. I screamed just before I actually awoke. The neighbor wasn't aware of my presence by the window. He didn't hear me scream. Once awake, I recognized him as my neighbor down the street. He was an innocent victim of my disoriented state. If I had gone back to sleep I may have been under the false impression that he was sneaking around my house, or some other distortion.In reality he was only walking up to the door and ringing the door bell.
 
quote:
I have some tricks to invoke help while traveling. Asking questions aloud and plugging the ears of my dream body has a great potential for communication. Most of the times I didn't understand the first words because tuning to the voice takes some time. Some voices are like coming from a telephone center coupled with some mechanical noises, others seem to come from real persons. I have been heard a broad range of voices from young boys to old ladies. I need more experimentation to uncover all the possible sources, however it has been proven that most voices comes from other dreamers and independent entities.

Once I tried to believe that a voice of a young man I was heard in a dream came from someone who is outside the scope of my perception. When I imagined that he we in a situation of trying to speak through invisible walls, I experienced a brief sensory chaos. The next moment I found myself in a calm conversation with him sitting at a table. Our dreams seemd to mixed around the focal point of that table. Later I worked out a simple method for uniting sensory bubbles based on a specific attention driving similar I've described in my guide.

On the other hand, the robotic voices seem to come from my energy body/subconsciousness. I've found that dealing with my energy body is require hightened awareness and clear purpose. I've reached a point where I use real definitons to get a desired outcome. This is especially true when I'm fly in an autopilot mode. It happened to me after many years of flying that got to point where I'm practically unable to fly on my own. There is a gloomy environment between lucid dreams and RTZ-projections. Well that is where I got stuck. Moving is very difficult in that state yet I've observed a heavy traffic. Sometimes the autopilot function of my energy body the only option to move. Sometmes it seems indistinguishable from getting external help.

I could use regular dream characters as shells to let guidance into my dreams. All I have to do is talk to dream people as they are already would be animated by the person/force I want to contact with. I create an empty shell by asking aloud a family members to come in, then I start to controll our conversation by pretending that the figure is already inhabited by my target. They look will change accordingly, mostly in unnoticided jumps. I am still extremly cautious with those "people" because my experiences make me believe that some odd things are waiting outside of my sensory bubble all the time ready to use any means to get inside.

Recently I got the idea for an another method that seems the most secure so far. What I do is simply speaking to the air like someone would be at that spot. It's funny but works great if I want more than a disembodied sound, but not want to go as far as to manifest a full apparition. I've read an interesting article about the connection between lateral preference of sensed presence and its emotional connotation so the next time I would try to imagine my guide at my left. By the way, the most friendy helps I could ever get seem to choose this invisible form. This forms represent an unobtrusive but potent help, something that able to transport quickly and without exerting any uncertain aim. Sometimes they transport me as a wind or armchar, sometimes I feel myself being grabbed at the level of my stomach.




 
I found all this similiar to some of my own dream states (except the dream people being shells),I don't have control.
 
I too suspect mechanical voice is my own. I traveled back in time once. Using this mechanical voice I made a remark about myself while gazing at myself at the age of 3! I was in real time when I did this. I don't know if my idea of real time is the same as described as rtz explained here.The 3 year old experience happened after the 9 year old experience. This hints of a regression process to me.
 
It sounds like you have contact with a guide. I have had a similiar contact with a guide at a table. I was not aware of how I got there. You seem to describe the circumstances in more detail. I think your on the right track! The difference for me is that I wasn't able to hear what me and the guide were saying. I was more of an observer than a participant in this. I was about 9 years old in this scene.
 
Do you suspect these bubbles being orbs?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on August 27, 2004, 20:13:34
Have you had a false awakening in a flipped state? If your neighbor didn't recognized you why was he victimised?

As for the guy at that table in my dream, I'm sure he was not my guide. Considering my later experiences about shared dreaming, he was an another dreamer.

I have no contact with regular guides. Years ago I meet an eagle on my way to home. I was frightened when I saw him circling around me. He sat down on my arm and we had a fantastic jorney together. It was night in the dream we started but the rest of the dream was very bright and stable. At first we flew above a fantastic landscape. Sometimes I felt we fly very high, sometimes it seemed we are just  above a miniature land. I saw a skeleton of a giant animal coated by little villages and some strange creatures walking away. We flew very long and I couldnt follow where we went.  

Now I know this is trick we require sometimes to free our attention from a heavily interpreted astral environment. Currently I use my palm to concentrate on, not the landscape so my flyings are very brief. Progress toward my target means some internal changes that I track by asking the disemodied voices.

So we got into a city and the eagle turned into a man without my notice. The next thing I could remember that we were sat in a harbour watching the ships come and go. I asked him to make me lucid in my regular dreams. I couldn't remember our conversation except that we made some deal and my amazement how real the city was. I've also observed tiny pores on his face.

When we finsihed our meet I was excited and sad from what I was told. I tired to fly home but the city was surrounded by a grid like structure I couldnt get through. At that point two other people appeared and explained why. First they seemed to be some of my old class-mates then turned into unknown but still familiar people. Perhaps they are my guides, I don't know. All I can do now is pulling some guidence into my dreams when I needed to. If guides are really exist they respect my wish to be alone.

quote:
Do you suspect these bubbles being orbs?
2-3 years ago I've made some efforts to compare my notes about my RTZ-movements with light balls. I concluded that in the RTZ I behave similar to those balls. I think some orbs are condensed energy bodies of spirits or some other intelligent forces. Others are just natural phenomena that having the same physical envelope (ionised gases) without underlaying consciousness.

Phyisical laws seem to play a great role determining movemements in that form, but this not exclude the possibility that some of those balls have consciousness. According to my theory, more remote an energy field that pass by the RTZ more decondensated its corresponding phyical field projection from the point of view of an RTZ observer. Power lines and power stations literally curve the space-time. This is the result of the Heaviside components of the electrical flow that most textbooks miss to mention. This component is perpenicular to the well known Poynting flow that moves inside and around the wire. The Heaviside flow assembled from the entire vacumm and 3D-space representing an enormous amount of energy that miss our circuits and couldn't used by our electrical systems.

I saw some pictures about light blobs turning into space-ship type UFOs around high tension power lines. I heard that crews of many shooted UFOs sit in a circle and seem to control the flight without any identificable technical equipment. I think the crew are dimensional travellers, just like we humans would be in the near future. I see the future of The Monroe Institue like this: 5-12 people are laying in a circle around a computer that synchronise they focus states. Because they strictly synchronsied focus and intent they share the same dream and own the same energy body. They dream themselves into a ship or a room with windows they mentally constructed beforehand. Those human explorers would manifest to other beings similarly like UFOs for us. I've already taken some steps to using ship like dream rooms by doing some "horizon-enginering" in F21/F22.

However if you refer to bubbles from my post you quoted then you may misunderstood me. By bubbles I meant personal dream environments of different dreamers. Those bubbles are separating and uniting when dreamers are meet and divorce. For instance, you invite a dreamer by saying his name aloud and he come in your dream bedroom. If you focus your attention on his body you may found yourself in a place you never seen before. This place is the other dreamer dreams about. However, if you refuse the pull by sustaining sights of elements from your original environment your "bubbles" would only unite forming a strange mix of the two places. Sensory bubbles are similar to virtual conference rooms we would likely encounter in our lifetime.



Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: wisp on August 31, 2004, 18:36:48
upstream,
 
quote:
Have you had a false awakening in a flipped state?

I have only recognized the flipping thing within the past year. I first became aware of it when I could see my astral body above my physical body, then the flip occurs. I don't have false awakenings.I do have what could be called hypnagogic things happen. Is this the same thing?

 
quote:
If your neighbor didn't recognized you why was he victimised?

I shouldn't have used the word victimized. I wondered if that wasn't necessary and confusing to say.Nevermind that.

Interesting about your viewpoint on guides.

I will have to think about your views on orbs. These are more interesting things to think about! I might have some more questions.

Thanks


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: ralphm on September 07, 2004, 19:18:22
Upstream, There is a lot of good info in this topic, somehow it relates to having a quality OBE experience, which seems to be lacking in a lot of projectors. A few questions-
Is the complaint of not seeing things lit up, not being able to move, just a part of the RTZ and not the astral? These things seem to happen when I don't seem to have enough 'energy' to reach the astral.
What part do the chakras have in these ideas? I equated the problems I had with a lack of awareness, sometimes the awareness now mantra seemed to work, sometimes staring at objects seemed to help, but last night I had a lenghthy OBE and came back to a place near my house but I had such brow chakra energy I had really good sight. Unfortunately my wife moved at this point and woke me. Maybe my brow chakra development/activity is borderline for having  exceptional OBE experiences?
I know that Casteneda talked about silencing the inner dialog, but people report that they have better OBE's when they keep a dialog going. Could this be a focusing technique, just like focusing on an object or awareness now! ?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: Selski on September 08, 2004, 14:27:19
Upstream

I've just read your post - and I like it very much.

I find for the past year, most of my OBEs have been in the RTZ.  However, for the life of me, I can't seem to go fast anywhere.  As soon as I try to zoom or fly quickly, I 'lose' the experience and instantly my physical body wakes up.  My experiences tend to only last a short while too.  

I think it's because I'm still taking limitations with me (i.e. I can't physically go that fast and I can't physically fly).

I'm still lumbering around putting my hands through walls and the like, which is great fun, but when you've had a year of doing it, you want to do something else!

Do you think it would be a good idea to do your exercise of looking at 'real' objects for 1-3 seconds whilst I am in the RTZ?  If so, what benefits are there?

I have just received Robert Monroe's second and third books and am looking forward to reading them.  I'm quite keen to move onto astral phasing, but I want it to feel as "real" as my RTZ OBEs.

I've read some of Major Tom's posts about F10 and F12, which fascinate me, so I'm keen to go in this direction, but I'm not very technical or scientifically minded.

I have recently started meditating and raising energy (NEW), in the hope that this will prolong my OBEs (and for the benefit of my well-being), but any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

To some people, a year of having OBEs sounds like an awful long time, but I feel I've only taken a few baby steps in the world of astral travel!

I eagerly await your response.

Cheers

Sarah

PS  I also get very easily distracted while I'm in the RTZ!!  I know this is a problem and I need to stick to my original plan/intent.  But things do have a habit of demanding your attention in the astral, even cupboard doors that should be shut, but are flapping open!! [;)]


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on September 10, 2004, 13:10:19
ralphm,

quote:
Upstream, There is a lot of good info in this topic, somehow it relates to having a quality OBE experience, which seems to be lacking in a lot of projectors.
I've found that quality comes when I increase my awareness even when it seems superfluous. Otherwise I would think I'm fully conscious but in reality I'm not. It is very important to restore the waking presonality after entering a dream.

quote:
Is the complaint of not seeing things lit up, not being able to move, just a part of the RTZ and not the astral? These things seem to happen when I don't seem to have enough 'energy' to reach the astral.
I'm interested, what do you mean by not having enough energy to reach the astral. Is it a point or state where you think you have reached the astral?

Not seeing things and poorly-lighted environments could be explained many ways. Perhaps you wouldn't like my favorite explanation, but it has some well working applications. Well, I think, every lighting problems could be tracked back to the brain. People who had a near death experience often report an incredibly bright light they never seen before. I suppose that light is perceived not by the brain. Similarly, I have no light-problems in experiences I believe to be astral projection.

Endogen DMT (made by the pineal gland) is responsible for the visual power of dreaming. You would experience light-problems when you consciously enter REM-sleep but your brain has not enough DMT to power bright visuals. DMT is synthesized from melatonin which is the fuel of sleep. It is is converted from serotonin our brain currently on and realeased from in deep sleep. Basically serotonin (we are currently on) and melatonin are converted to each other as sleep and wakefulness alternating.

I like to gaze into bright lights in dreaming to gain more dreaming power. Years before I learned this trick from a nice looking young man. He said I should gaze into a bright lamp to have more lucid dreams. It has no sense at all so I forgot his advice but later I found it works very well. Now I could explain why and currently I plan to go back in time to notice myself, again.

In order to simulate bright lights in dreams the brain needs to produce DMT from melatonin. However, very bright light sources, like the Sun has the adverse effect of waking up instantly. The reason is your brain is try to be up your expectations and forced to use up all its DMT to mimic the brigntess of the Sun. Sun at sunrise and sunset works good in dreaming as in waking. If there is not enough DMT you even couldn't swith on a lamp.

The brain needs a couple of mintues to produce enough DMT from melatonin when you enter REM-sleep. You could enforce this conversion by moving slowly but progressively to more brighter environments, by closely focusing very little details on surfaces (you are always able to rotate your palm to reflect more light no matter where you are), by picking off dark eyed glasses and textiles from your face in a row, and voicing your intent aloud to get brighter visuals. Yo need to repeat this excercises for minutes.    

When I was doing some very long dreaming session I've often observed the renewing of dreaming power after about 60 minutes of dreaming. By pushing dreams over their limits eventually I'll get to a point where I feel a great templation to quit the dream. As I feel myself very tired and slow, enclosed in a dark place in constant struggle for visuals, I see no hope for escape other than waking up. However, I've observed that after a given point the dream get power again. I hypothesize that the brain is forced to start fill up the melatonin pool again from which the DMT could be quickly synthesized. Also, laying down in the position of your sleeping body seems to have the capacity to re-start REM-sleep but first you need a stable dream to start with.

Also, you could teach your brain to produce more DMT by agressively prolonging dreams. If you are able to manage to project every day for a week and prolong all your dreaming sessions by practicing "agressive" reseparaton and/or "superpassive" reentering techniques, you will gain a great deal of dreaming momentum that lasts for 2-3 weeks. However, this ability would be lost soon again if you would not use your gained impulse to sustain the pull and quite some nights.

My conclusion: DMT could be synthesized and used up within seconds but the brain needs some training to do that. This is the ability that makes someone an established projector. Without sustained practice this skill diminish very soon.

quote:
What part do the chakras have in these ideas?
Basically, pineal gland is thought to be the 3rd/brow chakras. According to some new research there is a "standing photon field" in the third verticle behind the pineal gland. The verticles are lined by light sensitive cells that supposed to modulate the photon field inside, forming complex interference patterns that coinciding with thalamocortical activity patterns. It's called light in the head.

Anyway, the thalamus is the real center of our brain. I'm sure it is part of the complex we call brow and crow chakra. It is known to control activity of cortical areas thus its different activity patterns are responsible for every possible consciousness state that associated with the brain.

quote:
Maybe my brow chakra development/activity is borderline for having exceptional OBE experiences?
Sure. Because its thalamic connections the brow chakra is indeed the command center of the organism. You could affirm yourself more efficiently when you (1) surround your verbal commands with silence and (2) enforce your thoughts by entopic feedback. According to Lefebute (?) thoughts can be powered by seeing into a bright lamp for a couple of seconds then observing the remaining light patterns with eyes closed.

Sometimes when I got some idea I see a colorful mandala superimposed onto my visual field., so I have an ongoing project with the wonderful DreamScope screensaver to using computer generated and on screen projected mandalas as light sources to mimic those mandalas, establish a more refined entopic feedback and practicing visualisations.

quote:
I know that Casteneda talked about silencing the inner dialog, but people report that they have better OBE's when they keep a dialog going. Could this be a focusing technique, just like focusing on an object or awareness now! ?
I've never tired to compare this two variations. Silence is prerequisite for inducing RTZ-OBEs and it seems to prolongs after separation. A given degree of silence is natural a prerequisite of those practices I write about in my guide. As highly lucid dreams are associated with more active brain states, thinking should have a stabilizing effect on them, but I'm not sure.

Close focusing of object enforces gamma brain activity. Practicing this focuses in alternation with orders like "awareness now!" "more clarity" etc. is part of the struggle we need to get through to get more brain activity. The resulted highly active brain states help us to restore our waking personality and its inentions and reach the perceptual acuteness of F21. It is a process that goes against some resistance all the way. For me, it could take 2-5 minutes to accomplish from separating a phantom in NREM, moving it away from the bed through the darkness, getting visuals by focusing on details of my palm and get enough awareness and sensory power to reach F21.


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on September 10, 2004, 13:35:46
Sarah,

quote:
As soon as I try to zoom or fly quickly, I 'lose' the experience and instantly my physical body wakes up. My experiences tend to only last a short while too.
I had a similar period that lasted for half a year. I suppose it was the direct result of a new "method" that enabled me to project from superficial sleep. I doubt I can help you, but in order to have the minimal chance I need to know how your typical OBEs are going.

For the meantime, we can't disregard your intuition about self-made limitations.  

quote:
Do you think it would be a good idea to do your exercise of looking at 'real' objects for 1-3 seconds whilst I am in the RTZ? If so, what benefits are there?
I think those people would benefit from these excercises who are already experiencing a mixtures of LDs & OBEs. The signs are the following:

- brightness problem, difficulties with getting sight after exit
- pale, greyish dream pictures, general instability
- renewed difficulties with flying
- collapsed episodes of DILDs (dream initiated lucid dreams) could be followed by separation
- other sings I can't remember now

Lucid dreams are associated with highly active brain states and ordinary lucid dreams made by bright pictures are fairly stable. On the opposite, in RTZ-OBEs (and in OBE-like dreams) the brain is in a state similar to hypnagogia, which is a dissociated state somewhere between deep sleep, REM and wakefulness. This means a lesser brain activity and REM-power, thus, inability to produce stable and bright pictures. For this reason those projections tend to be greyish.

Seems like both "real" and "dream-like" OBEs use the same brain mechanisms and play into each other but "dream-like" OBEs are fairly instable. The reason could be that in OBE-like dreamstates the stabilizing feedback are limited only on this "empty" pictures. They are "empty" because they have no energy fields beneath.

If you are indeed in this intermediate state, the looking excercises will synchronize your energy body with real energy fields of our waking reality. The long focuses will stop REM and move your perception toward the RT-point. As a result, the dream pictures will be progressively loaded with more dense energy fields and a new stabilizing feedback will gradually emerge involving now real energy fields.

But doing those focuses from a not acivated, OBE-like lucid dream you will likely wake up prematurely. For activating dreams see my previous post.

quote:
I also get very easily distracted while I'm in the RTZ!! I know this is a problem and I need to stick to my original plan/intent. But things do have a habit of demanding your attention in the astral, even cupboard doors that should be shut, but are flapping open!!
Yeah, it's a serious problem. It is similar when you decide to wake up in the middle of the night to do some excercise only to sleep back. So most of the times it is due to not having enough lucidity. But as for other times, should we sacrifice spontainity on the altar of our stiffness?




Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: cube on September 11, 2004, 01:05:36
That's very interesting how serotonin is converted into DMT. Here's a pretty good article on DMT's relationship to serotonin:
http://www.heartoftheinitiate.com/articles_gaia.htm

I also wrote a post here about how to increase your serotonin levels and how its relates to melatonin:
http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/chat-forum/viewTopic.jsp?t=sun&x=10728


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: ralphm on September 13, 2004, 19:04:09
Thanks for the reply, upstream. I'm sure the chemical brain has something to do with obe vision. However i'm sure that when we focus on the brow chakra it is stimulating brain chemicals too. A few interesting facts i've come across- I heard a Dr. Sraussman talk about DMT on coast to coast last friday, http://www.rickstrassman.com/ , he said that the pineal is at it's most active at 2-4 am. Maybe that is why the interupted sleep technique works so well, most people would probably wake about 4 or so. Also take into consideration Buddhism-the tibetians do a lot of meditation with the brow chakra, the zen and southern schools follow the breath mostly. If you look at their art it is the tibetians that have the wild astral-psychedelic look. Maybe it comes from the brow chakra?
As for myself I realized that I don't get hypnogogic images, just weird sounds and the seperation buzz. So maybe I am naturally deficient in the right chemicals for good OBE sight? Hopefully not for long, seems like my brow is pretty stimulated theese days and my obe vision is improving.
In the OBE state I have always been attracted to lights- I guess is more appealing than the shadows- and I tried staring at the stars in an experience I had a couple days ago, but my vision seemed to tumble away as soon as I fixated on one. Any other techniques out there to stabilize the experience?


Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on September 17, 2004, 12:32:13
If you lack of brightness, you definitely need more of it. Stars are not bright enough, I am sure. Basically, what we trying to do is stabilize REM-sleep up to a point where it is able to serve as springboard for more conscious demanding operations. Then REM-sleep goes away, first diminish into a hypnagogia like state then into deep sleep, I suppose.

Premature fixating your dream eyes for longer than a couple of seconds can easily shake or even collapse your dreamscape. Don't forget, REM means rapid eye movements, but OBEs occurs in a dissociated states similar to hypnagogia where the eyeballs only do some slow floating movement.

I believe sleep interruption works because sleep need is already satisfied by previous core sleep, however level of melatonin are still high. Melatonin is the fuel of sleep: it causes drowsiness, ensure sleep impetus and serve as feedstock for DMT. It's interesting to note that DMT synthesis is one of the most quickest (quickest?) reaction amongst neuromodulators. Melatonin and DMT is not stored in the pineal but distributed right away by the blood stream.

Basically, stability comes from the full activation of the REM-sleep machanisms result in phasic-REM. Tonic-REM is associated with instable dreams in which you may have your dream body but your sight is very poor or you don't see at all. So, the first step is to activate REM by doing some stabilization excercises then make the dream environment progressively brighter. In the following I'll try to make some point about this process.

quote:
As for myself I realized that I don't get hypnogogic images, just weird sounds and the seperation buzz.
Same with me, but the buzz has also become very quiet. Usually I just lying on my bed and get the confidence that the time is now. I think it's greatly dependent on the method we use.

The most stabilization demanding projections starts in darkness. I get my sight by looking through my closed eyelids, usually focusing on my palm before my eyes. I do it at the wall or already in the bed. To keep myself anchored to the dream in the interim I touch objects and concentrate on my dream legs. When I get my sight I look around for objects. The exact path my attention follows has great significance in forming the dream space around. Establishing an allocentric space by looking out of the window for example can be result in some instability. First I need to focus on closer objects to ensure gradual sensory expansion.

Feeling my legs moving beneath is a great anchor. Observing disstant sounds has a strong stabilizing effect, I highly recommend it. Getting emotional contact with objects as sort of extension of the normal senses works wonderful. It is like you would like objects to tell their story. However, there is no doubt in my mind, the most important thing you can do in order to stabilize a given dream session is to ensure a constanly changing environment that holds your interest all the way through.

For this purpose, performe zoomings on distant objects for 2-4 times in a row. Zooming is a great stabilizator, provided the dream live through the first zoom. If the initial dream is apt for it zooming is far secure than flying which is, by the way, can collapse the dream, if possible at all. Zooming requires some other factors currently I'm not confident about. First off, you definitely need a good target, far enough to be able to triggering the zoom reflex. Without a proper target fxating your gaze would wake you up. It is difficult to zoom onto empty dream pictures as I believe zooming is represent the reorganisation process of the multi-seeded, cloud like energy body that occurs on a real energy fields hence its stabilization effect. The best targets are the most distant buildings that your attention may zero in by its own.

Appling the twin method in a row has a similar effect to zooming. Once again, the initial dream has to be stable enough to survive the manoeuvre. You can take the position of your sleeping body anywhere you want in a stable dream provided you know the exact position of your sleeping body. Other positions could wake you up easily. Otherwise, it works similar to false awakening, has the same superb stabilizng effect, but now you have the conscious purpose too. I suppose this trick works by mimicing the REM-starter conditions.

A promising modification of this technique use the flip manoeuvre you may have already experienced spontaneously when you felt yourself sleeping in the opposite direction than your physical. You can encounter the flip in the pre-separational stage or between two conscious OBE-episodes when you lay motionless, waiting passively for the next re-separation. If you leave your bedroom but go back to you bed after the dream has stabilized itself, you could use the polarity flip manoeuvre, by now consciously (thanks Wisp for the great name, it's sooo cool). Just lie back on you bed in the dream but for now in the opposite direction than you went to sleep and pretend a brief projection attempt of yours. Alhough you sleep in the opposite direction, relative position of your limbs have to be properly alingned with those of your sleeping body is hold. As a result you would separate in a new dream powered by a new REM-phase which should be extremly stable.

Unfortunately, internal projections like this are greatly diminish my ability to remember them. To have better memories I perform a simple trick to "relive the emanation cone." I wander my sight on the details of my palm whilst I quickly remember the main stages of the route I took up to this point where I'm in the dream, but now in a reverse manner; from my current dream environment to to my "last" sleeping body. I takes 5-10 seconds to accomplish.

Briefly focusing my palm help in emergency situations as well, and at those times when I want to reinforce my lucidity. For example, you could condicionate yourself to reorganise your perception and increase your lucidity every time when you finished something. You may look on your palm to saying similar suggestions: "now I'll settle down on that roof then I'll look on my palm and I'll be fully conscious again knowing who am I and what I want to accomplish" And you just do that. When you look up from your palm, let's say you see a shining, obviosuly very spiritual being and you decide to ask him (?) about the purpose of the life of gnats or chickens we eat, so you said to yourself: "Now I'm going to ask this purple being about this important questions but I'll look on my palm frequently during our conversation," etc. It works.

In dreams when I find myself in buildings having stable internal structure seemingly independent from my expectations, I usually have more time to look for bright objects when the dream finally decide to collapse. The bright, smooth skin beneath my thumbnail has saved me a couple of times. Also, rotating my palm to reflect more light is a great practice. These experiences makes me seriously think about the nature of our perception and the body we have in dreams.

Ideally a stabilization process goes like this: touching, hearing, seeing then the rest more subtle functions. This means that you are able to hold a dream only by grabbing some object you don't see at all. Of course, this is only a temporal solution and you should further stabilize the episode by switchin on your sight.

If the dream collapse despite all my efforts I suspend thinking and watch patiently stacking to the consciousness that I'm still surrounded by the previous dream scene. Silently holding the directions and general feelings of the dream environment around myself I patiently wait until the dream reform itself. If I lost my presence in the dream and found myself laying in the darkness again I could reenter the dream by "dragging" myself in its "direction" or I contionue to pretend that I'm still in the dream. However, most of the times I become very passive and observe what can I use to detach a new body. I use the separation method from the previous episode, if there was any. Otherwise the most common thing I used to do is increasing the level and frequency of internal noises. My favorite method is to concentrate at the top of my head and moving this focal point upward. Other occasions require other heurestic methods based on previous experiences. I do one of this this as long as I start to feel a phantom I could separate in by moving like log does in water.

Forced dream prolongation practices by reentering dreams or doing reseparations by all means is absolutery necessary to get more dream power, which is, as I hypothesized before, could be described as the increased ability of the brain and pineal gland to produce more melatonin and DMT on demand.

quote:
So maybe I am naturally deficient in the right chemicals for good OBE sight?
I doubt it. First, you need to be sure your body produce enough melatonin. As I said before, the body needs melatonin to induce and sustain sleep. Perhaps you need to do some sungazing to increse your serotonin level. You can see into the Sun for 2-5 seconds in every hour. If the sky is clouded the UV-radiation isn't lesser so be careful. According to the most famous sungazer, Hira Ratan Manek, gazing into the Sun in the first hour after sunrise or in the last hour before sunset is secure up to 45 minutes, provided if you increase the time of your sessions gradually by a rate around 10 seconds per day.

After the sungazing session is over I close my eyes to concentrate on the bright afterimage and the centre of my scull. This is a great excercise for the pineal gland.

Melatonin synthesis require darkness. Even the light emission of CRT-monitors could delay melatonin synthesis for about 30 minutes. At the evening you may prefer to wear sunglasses in order to let your body to use the excess serotonin to produce superfluous melatonin for your spiritual purposes. Also, wearing sunglasses in the evening will delight your environment. If we can't assure people that what we are doing is useful, our duty is to entertain them. Make sure that your diet has enough tryptophan, vitamin B6 and Ca and remove all electrical gadgets (included your alarmclock) from the regio around your bed.  

I practice reentering dreams from luxus sleep as well by not thinking and focusing the last scene. By default, they last for a brief period of time (max. 1-2 minutes), but occasionally could be superstabilized by the simple twin or the polarity flip manoeuvres. However, to train yourself for long dream sessions or restart an old practice, you need to dream on more melatonin. For that purpose you should interrupt your sleep earlier than 6h. I have the most long lucid dreams (in real time) by interrupting sleep after the first 2 cycle (3,5h total bed time) and making my OBE-attempts after about 2-3h of wakefulness. Another good pattern is 5/2, but don't forget our sleep could be different. On the other hand, we are the same in that way that an abrupt wake-up could be very detrimental for a near-future OBE-attempt. Try to wake up right after a dream-period but limit your sleep by setting an alarm. I use the radio of the stereo system or my PC to wake me up. I get out of my bed and doze on my yoga blanket on my knees and with forehead on the floor until I wake up enough to find the bed lesser attractive.




Title: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs
Post by: upstream on July 26, 2004, 11:04:09
THE THEORY

I think, we couldn't project into the astral until we are not capable to perceive the RTZ environment as it is. Without this skill our experiences are only lucid dreams, or at least, they are so heavily interpreted that cannot be considered otherwise than hallucinations.

There are two main feedback / control mechanisms which are able to keep our perception on the surface of RTZ:

1. Sensory feedback on a set of quality sensory inputs
2. Believing that you are indeed having an RTZ-OBE

As I see it, our field of vision in RTZ is composed from two types of pictures. One part of them somehow based on real sensory information, that is comes from "outside." The other part is internally generated by unconscious processes. By quality sensory input, I mean information that is not projected from the unconscious, but can be regarded as interpretations of energy fields generated by real, physical or non-physical objects. The energy body perceives those fields of their own and something translate them into pictures we know. This interpretation process is also heavily influenced by unconscious desires and beliefs. If there is no appropriate picture in our memory, the most appropriate will be used.

When inner dialogue is suppressed, presumptions don't contaminate the vision. You can keep your projection reasonably clear by sustaining silence and outward-directed awareness or regularly speaking aloud your intent to clear up your perception from phantoms. Constantly believing that you are having an OBE will result in the same effect, but it can be more powerful. However, it should be not a blind belief, but based on enhanced awareness and critical attitude. Without sufficient level of awareness, even criticism will fall and the experience will turn into some kind of pseudo-projection in which you obsessively try to validate your experiences on the basis of ad hoc created, false memories.

You could read 3 methods for converting LDs to OBEs on Marc Vandekeere's great home page @ http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/astral-projection-and-out-of-body-experiences.htm

In the following I describe a very basic method I've developed based on exercises from a Carlos Castaneda's book The Art Of Dreaming.


THE EXCERCISE

This method can be applied if you're in a very familiar, preferably enclosed place. The most appropriate place would be a little room, but not the same room where you sleep. The possibility to get a look of your sleeping body, at least at a subconscious level, will disturb the process. It can trap your attention, but most likely it has a repulsion effect. Also, in the third phase of the process (see later)the body will try to suck you in, causing a sense of imbalance, slanted floor, and more heavily distorted perception.

The best state from which you could start the excercise is similar to a false awakening that you have got into your conscious controll, that is entering a dream consciously by the sense of getting out of your bed, or the best, detaching your slumbering body. Regular lucid dreams will work too, but your awareness must be very keen. For that, enhance your awareness and stabilize the dream (see tips on Vandekeree's pages) before you walk/fly/teleport, etc. to the room you have chosed.

Stand in a point close to one of the corners and begin to move your attention along objects which outlook, place, and relative orientation you have memorized from your waking state beforehand seem correct. Focus on every objects for about 1-3 seconds. You have to change your focus when you recognize an object as whole thing, different entity from its environments (gestalt). This is not a visualization exercise. In this phase the most important thing is the relative position of the objects. Their exact look is a secondary issue that you will or won't correct. If the spatial organization is done, the process might become self-unfolding.

You aren't permitted to look on any object more than 2-4 seconds. You should move your attention constantly on those objects which seemed to be at their correct position and looks at least very similar to their waking counterparts. At the beginning you should move your attention to about 3-4 objects in every cycle before you go back to your starter point, a nucleus of the condensation process of your energy body.

In the fist stage, the nucleus could be your palm, or the knob of the door, or the display of a digital clock. Targeting the palm is easy because it is always at hand, however in the latter stages, looking on it will hinder the condensation process, because it is a hallucinated object. You should substitue your palm something you verified as an energetic object, for example a painting on the wall.

Recommended nucleuses in order of importance:
1. displays of digital clocks (I use 3 clocks at the same time: music center, alarm clock, computer display. First the numbers are instable, then begin to slow their changes, eventually reach the same time around rseal-time. It's very interesting that they always show slightly different times from the real time and each other.)
2. corners of the room, windows & doors (for the basic reconstruction in the first stage)
3. paintings, knob of the door
4. furnitures
5. plants
6. working electronic devices, metal objects (avoid to stand close to them)

Avoid TV sets, mirrors and objects outside of your window, and your body (if you prefer to exercise in your bedroom). Buy a negative ion generator and install it in the room where you'll try to condensate your energy body.

Your goal is to isolate and move your attention between real objects and disregard phantoms. To disregard phantoms you should avoid looking to objects that don't seem to be at the proper place, seems modified or totally unknown. Paradoxically, first you have to locate those phantom elements in order to disregard them. Later, if they still persist, you could work on them by changing them one by one, but in generally it is not recommended. Expectations powered by false memories could ruin your work by reality fluctuations.

As you proceed, you have to correct objects by visualizing them at the right place. You can change their position by holding the desired picture in your mind, looking away, speaking aloud your intent, and then looking back. First I often see a transparent version of the object, then I look away then back and find the dream object replaced by the solidified version of the visulised one. Basically, you could move your attention between verified nucleuses and let the scene change outside of your vision. But again, you have to keep your attention moving on real looking objects already properly placed.

I've found it work very well if I try to hold the feeling of all my verified nucleus at the same time regardless of your actual focus at that moment. The exact route my attention follow is not crucial however, I suspect, nor insignificant. I'm still not know the exact laws behind the fluctocondensation process.

When I've forced to abandon my OBE practices I was experimenting with externally generated bioplasm cables. I've found if I'm very close to the place where my body should be lying I could take my etheric substance from my body by using breathing excercises. I was doing this practice to get enough physicality to collapse a detector in the corner of my room and enpower my projections.

I suppose you would develop your own style in no time, but you have to excercise yourself while you're awake. Just do all the looking and focusing excercises in the same room you would in dreaming. Try to believe that you're indeed dreaming. This work is essential, because in dreaming there is no time for experimenting or making mistakes.


THE PROCESS

I've observed many stages of the condensation process, but I don't want to set obstructive expectations here. For example, in the first stage of de-phantomisation I could face a very serious problem: dream peoples will appear and try to hinder my exercise by all possible manner. This could be personal, perhaps you'll be free from them. The simplest method I've came up with was to lock the door of the room in the dream. I advise no violence at all because it will upset your mind and ruin the emotional athmosphere of the dream.

In the second stage (after the spatial reorganisation is done) your vision become very disrupt, composed from various mosaics (showing your room from odd directions at the same time) and the tunnel like quality of your vision become more apparent (inability to focus on the perifery of your vision). Also, you can't move your attention freely, because some direction seems inhibited. At this point your have to drop your palm and choose a stable, verified energetic object. Your energy body has reached the "octopus phase" in which it is supposedly composed from various little seeds and spurs around the nucleuses. In one direction you could see into the RTZ, in the opposite you are still hallucinating. If you quit at this point and fly out of your window, you may will be surprised by the domination of power-lines, antennas and weatherings in your dream.

Generally your field of vision will change from centrally active to being peripherally active, will get a more grayish hue, and/or disrupt into mosaics then open up again in the final stage. At one point you will feel yourself groggy, and you have difficulties with moving around, changing the angle of your perception or you will be moved by against of your will. Avoid trying to look in the direction of your body at the first couple of times. Latter it could be a nucleus and end sign of the condensatio process.

In the final stage your movements become temporally difficult, then replaced by floating and jumping styled sliding. Eventually your legs will disappear and your body will turn into a blob of attention. At this point you are in the real time zone.


THE REAL TIME ZONE

Order yourself to hold your current state. Supress internal dialog by observing your environment without expectations. Until you hold your peripheral vision, don't focus on details, don't carry massive internal dialogue / expectations, and don't be upset by strong emotions you will still be in the RTZ - or at least, close enough to it to being able to restore your vision by commanding your system to disregard hallucinatory intrusions. Don't try to move through narrow entrances, windows, doors with great speed, and avoid any other abrupt changes in your perception. Avoid insides of walls and conversations with other peoples or creatures.

Signs of being in the RTZ:

- The room seems larger and distant as you would see through a lensed peephole
- Sometimes you could see in all direction at the same time
- Ability to open up enclosed spaces in the distance or zooming to them
- Glowing halo around some objects, others emanate fear and electricity
- Ability to going through walls without tricks (getting in backward, forming sensory sporas, etc.)
- Flying is disrupted by small leaps
- Uncontrolled movements, drifts along wires, walls of buildings
- Inability to fly away by power-lines (you are forced to fly through or along them)
- Appearance of weird objects that emanate electricity & fear
- Changing your location between distant places without apparent moving

Don't fight with the natural laws: let yourself sliding along walls and the ground. Flying close to surfaces seems to have a stabilizing effect, presumably due to the izopotentials and surface-accumulated ions which from the bulk of the RTZ body is supposed to be composed.

The time you're able to spend in the RTZ is limited. From the very moment you abandoned the enclosed practices your environment start contaminated again. Slipping back into dreaming is a seamaless process.

Signs of leaving the RTZ:

- Multiplied or transparent pictures of some objects, buildings, the moon (like in the second stage of the enclosed practice of condensation)
- Uncontrolled drift by an unseen force (just above the RTZ)
- The image of your body is reappear (however you have arms even in RTZ if you try to grab something)
- Too many power-lines (they are everywhere!)
- People are start to noticing you (this could happen in the RTZ as well but people will not remember the conversation)

You could recondensate your energy body by speaking aloud your intent and/or carefully directing your attention. Simply order your system to disrecard sensory junks and other phantoms and avoid looking on objects that seem transparent or changed. You are able to use distant seeds of your energy body to travel distant places. Order your target onto the horizon then zoom onto its picture. You'll find yourself in the collective dream regio of your target from which, if you want to, you are still able to recondensate your energy body into the RTZ.

You could zoom onto a distant building by forcefully locking your attention on it. After 5-20 sec of intense focusing you'll feel a strong pull. If you let go at taht point, you will find yourself being accelerated on a straight line right in the direction of the object you focus on. Close objects will not pull you only form vortices. Starting from a more dream like environment your movements likely will be similar to some kind of fractional zooming onto a picture. If your destination is dimensionally more distant zooming will not work (the focused object is hallucinated). However, if you succeded to get a picture of a RTZ or astral object you'll be throwed through a hazy tunnel with tremendous speed. At your destination you could slow down your pace by gradually spreading out your attention. Be careful, if you fail you'll shoot over your target and find yourself without anything comprehensible to hold your perception on.

As a general rule, long focusing on objects required to succesful zooming could disrupt RTZ-states where the main sensory feedback seems to occurs via the periferal vision. However, if you're already out of the RTZ slightly (which is normally occur all the time when you operate and travel in RTZ) you could use zooming. After a couple of zooming your energy body will reorganise itself by loosing extra seeds and become localised in the RTZ again.

And of course, as always, if you feel yourself disorientated or lost, remember that you are able to command your energy body. Just order it  get you out of the hallucination or take you to your target by passively letting it to soar on a trajectory which would be beyond your control and reason.


Title: THE THEORY
Post by: zeitaxxl on March 28, 2005, 04:14:08
How can you ever perceive the RTZ environment as it is?
Do you really know how it really is????

Tam