The Astral Pulse

Integral Philosophy => Welcome to Integral Philosophy! => Topic started by: tenshi_R on November 14, 2012, 04:20:29



Title: how to see things as they are
Post by: tenshi_R on November 14, 2012, 04:20:29
What does it really mean
After reading many articles that popped up in google search i still dont understand
They all say it but none explain what it means exactly


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Contenteo on November 14, 2012, 08:03:13
You'd do well to look up the Japanese words
    'kan' & 'ken'
This may be a more effective starting place than Google.

Cheers,
Contenteo


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: tenshi_R on November 16, 2012, 07:18:30
does that mean without any emotional attachment?



say for example i see a bird poop on my car
what do i really see :evil:

btw i checked the ken kan out but will read more later

im just trying to get an idea of what it means

i know that what your eyes see and how your brain proceses it are 2 different things.



Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 11:56:02

say for example i see a bird poop on my car
what do i really see :evil:


Depends what bird it is.

Basically you see the waste products of what the bird has eaten.

I made bird poo for a movie... I had to study bird poo... fresh bird poo. I made it and everyone agreed it looked like 'bird poo'. I saw bird poo... recreated it by mixing certain substances that were edible (incase Dan Radcliffe got any in his mouth) and recreated the visual aspect of bird poo.



Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Stookie_ on November 16, 2012, 16:36:14
I would think it means being able to perceive things without letting preconceived concepts getting it the way, like seeing something for the first time without judgements.

Quote
I made bird poo for a movie... I had to study bird poo... fresh bird poo. I made it and everyone agreed it looked like 'bird poo'. I saw bird poo... recreated it by mixing certain substances that were edible (incase Dan Radcliffe got any in his mouth) and recreated the visual aspect of bird poo.

I would have just told Dan Radcliffe it was edible and used the real stuff.


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Mini stapler on November 16, 2012, 17:17:35
"Fundamentally, our experience as experienced is not different from the Zen master's. Where
we differ is that we place a fog, a particular kind of conceptual overlay onto that experience
and then make an emotional investment in that overlay, taking it to be "real" in and of itself."

A quote I took off a Zen website, though I don't claim to be a Zen master :roll: so I couldn't say for a fact that it's accurate, but I've heard that said a few times from different places & in various ways... I think it relates to what you are asking anyway.


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: tenshi_R on November 16, 2012, 18:58:45
Children have that ability.
But they also dont follow the rules of society that we live in.
Untill we grownups teach them whats right and whats wrong.
Then they react according to what they learned from us.
Isnt that filter a part of our society?


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 20:13:53
I would think it means being able to perceive things without letting preconceived concepts getting it the way, like seeing something for the first time without judgements.

I would have just told Dan Radcliffe it was edible and used the real stuff.

Well... between you and me and anyone who reads this... it probably wasn't as edible as real bird poo.  :-D


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Mini stapler on November 17, 2012, 00:37:55
Children have that ability.
But they also dont follow the rules of society that we live in.
Untill we grownups teach them whats right and whats wrong.
Then they react according to what they learned from us.
Isnt that filter a part of our society?

Yes, a filter over everything. Though there is a difference between not yet knowing the rules & knowing them, but seeing them for what they are. For a child there's no fear of death because there is no understanding of what it is to die. Some people see death through the 'filter' they learned growing up, as the end, & worst possible outcome, while others realize the nature of things & see death for what it is, a transition.


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Xanth on November 18, 2012, 18:05:50
What does it really mean
After reading many articles that popped up in google search i still dont understand
They all say it but none explain what it means exactly
Are you referring to Adyashanti's concept of "Allow things to be as they are"?

You might want to listen to some of his talks he does, because he explains it so much clearer than I ever could.  LoL

Try this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlFkDZC8hA


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Mini stapler on November 26, 2012, 04:13:13
Ok, I went off & did some looking. I went through looking at direct experience trying to find that illusive "I" that is the thinker of thoughts & the doer of actions, the feeler of feelings, that thing that life happens to. After about an hour & half it just clicked while I was staring out the window of a bus. That "I" doesn't exist! I've known that for quite a while from my reading, but this was different, it was the first time I actually looked for the "I" in direct experience, & it truly is an illusion, a false belief that's so conditioned into us growing up that we don't even think to ever question it, it's not even a question.

I original found a forum with people who talk you through the process, & signed up figuring what the hell might as well & while waiting to speak with some one I went off & did the process myself as it's fairly simple & I already new what to do. It's different just knowing it, from reading it out of a book, actually going off and looking for it & really seeing it, certain things just drop away! but it's by no means the end, it's the beginning, this is just the perspective we would normally have if we were taught properly about the difference between the way talk & think about experience, & actual direct experience, because they are not the same, we get confused.

Afterwards, a bunch of things that I guess caused me a 'problem' just dropped away, they just ceased to be important. It's strange, because everything is exactly the same as it has always been, but now somehow a bit different, that's how I've experienced it anyway. There's no thinker of thoughts, feeler of feelings, no one life happens to - there is just, thoughts happening, feelings happening, life happening, & that's what we are, that happening in the moment. No 'I's in it!

This doesn't mean ego just vanishes, it's just seen a lot more clearly for what it is - after a while it creeps in and works around this 'awakening' I think it's better to just call it opening your bloody eyes! :lol: It starts telling stories like "OMG look how awakened I am" "How special am I that I see this" etc... but they get seen for what they are, stories. Also lots of doubts. Have I really seen it?? type thoughts, but you know that there just thoughts coming & going, & that "I" in the thought can't see anything, or know anything, or feel anything! I laughed for most of the day afterwards, because it's always been this way, right in front of us, we're just not looking! It's hilarious! :lol:

EDIT: Or It's absolutely rubbish, not sure, not sure it even matters.


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Xanth on November 28, 2012, 00:11:48
It's actually really simple... so simple that people try to over complicate it in their minds.

Close your eyes and "stop thinking"...  just stop.

Now, everything that stopped along with your thinking, isn't you.

What remains when you do this is you. 

Hopefully, you'll notice something right away... there isn't much left when you do that.  :)

Guess what happens when everyone stops thinking?  We all become the same thing.


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Stookie_ on November 28, 2012, 16:08:45
Guess what happens when everyone stops thinking?  We all become the same thing.

That explains a lot about the world today  :-P


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: AstralCody on December 13, 2012, 07:59:25
^^  :-D


Title: Re: how to see things as they are
Post by: Lionheart on December 13, 2012, 19:34:26
That explains a lot about the world today  :-P
Unfortunately this is sooooooooooooooo true. A new group of "sheople" is born every minute!  :-(