The Astral Pulse

Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences => Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! => Topic started by: lalajossa on December 22, 2012, 23:23:09



Title: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: lalajossa on December 22, 2012, 23:23:09
This is my first post! :-D I have not yet accomplished astral projection yet but I am determined. So far I have got to the point where I started feeling a tingling sensation throughout my body. However, I thought that you could only get those sensations after sp. I want to know if it is possible since whenever i read what others been through they usually say that they went through sp. If anyone has ever done a astral projection without it then can you please give as much detail as possible of how it felt and/or advice?


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 22, 2012, 23:58:17
Its only a signpost and should be looked at as just that...
I've never known it and have been active since  around 1964.

Welcome to the Pulse.
Im sure you will love it here.
Have a read in this section, lots of info.

 http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq-b46.0/
 


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 23, 2012, 00:54:39
It is much easier to achieve Sleep Paralysis than not, but it is possible. The chances of you experiencing it through learning AP is pretty high because you will be messing around with your conscious awareness while essentially entering sleep.

Not everyone experiences it... although this is a minority.

But Szaxx... if you haven't experienced it.. .how can you know it's only a signpost? ;)

It is a direct route for a BEGINNER... let's not beat around the bush here. You get Sleep Paralysis.. BANG.. .you are there.. .sure and fast. Too fast I would say because of the sensations... but there nonetheless. I don't need to have SP these days for nonphysicalness but I did when I first started out.. every time. When you say 'after SP' you must mean before or during. After SP comes projection or back to physical reality.

But 'yes' is the answer.

*EDIT*

Looking back on my answer I would like to add that there will be a bias with those that have never experienced SP/OOBE induction and those that have and this sort of question usually brings up different answers, depending who is answering.

It's up to you to sort out the mixed bag.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 23, 2012, 01:21:36
With respect to yourself and many authors of known reputation.
From the comments made SP is common for nearly all beginners. Its also more common in your younger years and diminishes around 50 years of age. Im older than that and never make any comments on its effects from experience. I've never had it from memory and have always assumed night travelling was normal practice until around 9 years old. Asking all my friends on travelling, none experienced it.
I don't know why this is. Even the vibrations are an absolute challenge to experience.
Still a mystery having had them around 6 times in all my years.
These too are reported as signposts.
If any newcomer expects them and is effectively 'immune', a stalemate may ensue.
There's lots I still have no answers to and despite all the knowledge printed and the internet one particular aspect is non existent.
My main point is someone will be in the same position, this could de-rail their progress.
My wording may be better at times, getting the message accurate 100% is impossible. I hope nothing prevents anyones progress in what info is given.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 23, 2012, 01:47:34
An interesting fact that a lot of beginners fail to realise is that SP happens to everyone. Every single person who ever dreams has non-conscious Sleep Paralysis in the form of REM atonia. SP is just the term given to being aware of the process.

It's highly probable to the point of certainty that you will be undergoing REM atonia when you are in the thick of a projection Szaxx... just that you are not aware of it... the same goes for anyone projecting or dreaming.

The question could be better asked... "Can Astral Projection be accomplished without being aware of Sleep Paralysis?"


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 23, 2012, 02:19:53
Aahhh
You shine the light. I see.
You are correct. I was looking at the question and addressing the 'prior to sleep' aspect only.
I'd hate to think what would occur if the actual paralysis failed when dreaming.
While phasing if I attempt to physically move in the visualisation state, I can. It's something I learned to 'not do'. Once the 'letting go' of the physical occurs I've already interacted with the scene.
The hardest part is getting into the RTZ like what occured almost nightly when very young. Its so difficult, Im off elsewhere in some unrelated location. Intent can make it happen but buckets full are required.
Just realised this.
I still remember the early days and no phasing occurred. It was a desire to be somewhere, on the ground or flying, it just happened. Always close to the sleeping physical. Exit through the window.
Some thought is required. A search on exit routines to the RTZ are in order.

I may find a way thats familiar.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: catmeow on December 23, 2012, 02:35:12
Quote from: Bedeekin
But Szaxx... if you haven't experienced it.. .how can you know it's only a signpost?
Because he hasn't experienced it.

I have only rarely experienced it, but you are correct, that's because I lose physical awareness of my body before I enter SP. I shift to to the NPR before entering SP. However, this being the case, you could argue that SP is not necessary in order to get into the NPR.

There is a class of OBE called a "mind split OBE" in which the physical body remains wide awake and continues walking, talking etc whilst a second copy of consciousness leaves the physical body and continues as a completely independent consciousness. The two consciousnesses are unaware of each other. The physical body remains active. So SP is not strictly necessary. However, almost all examples of mind split OBEs are spontaneous, not self induced.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 23, 2012, 03:04:34
Weird... we were just talking about that on another thread.

The mind split OOBEs have been without SP... very true. But like you said.. they are spontaneous.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: catmeow on December 23, 2012, 03:07:12
I don't really know of any technique for inducing mind split OOBEs. Shame.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Spood on December 23, 2012, 05:55:58
I don't really know of any technique for inducing mind split OOBEs. Shame.

If I remember correctly, Tom Campbell can do it. But then again he's pro ;)


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: ChopstickFox on December 23, 2012, 06:24:45
I've only consciously been aware I was in SP once and it was after waking up from a nightmare @_@ Been trying to keep aware while falling asleep. Trying trying... A few times I have thought I was, but distraught, I wiggled a toe, haha. Maybe eventually.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Xanth on December 23, 2012, 06:41:23
Ok, what exactly do you guys mean by "mind split OBE"?

I'm under the assumption that splitting your focus while projecting isn't really the best idea as it ends up being confusing.
Or am I just not understanding what you mean?


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Spood on December 23, 2012, 07:14:53
Ok, what exactly do you guys mean by "mind split OBE"?

I'm under the assumption that splitting your focus while projecting isn't really the best idea as it ends up being confusing.
Or am I just not understanding what you mean?

I guess it's when you are aware of both "data streams". I guess it's like when you meditate and feel both sides but with complete awareness.

Just my guess =)


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 23, 2012, 09:42:36
Ok, what exactly do you guys mean by "mind split OBE"?

I'm under the assumption that splitting your focus while projecting isn't really the best idea as it ends up being confusing.
Or am I just not understanding what you mean?

'Mind split' is a term that's being used, although I'm not sure I would call it split. I wasn't aware of me walking/driving and me projecting... I was focused on the projecting while my physical self was doing its own thing.

On the other hand there is dual awareness... but that normally happens with me before or during projection.

Then there's running a simulation while I go about my daily business... which is just another form of 'thinking on it' or posing a problem that my subconscious works out while I engage myself in a current activity. I think this is parallel processing not 'mind split'.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: catmeow on December 23, 2012, 14:03:19
Bedeekin, I understand that you have experienced this a few times?

The Mind Split has been dealt with at length on this board.  It is NOT dual awareness. It is a true split in consciousness into two consciousnesses which then continue independently. One retains control of the physical body and is unaware of the existence of the other. The other goes into the RTZ and usually observes the physical body (quite accurately) going about its normal activity:

Here are some examples.

Nurse attending to patient has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/marcia_t_sobe.htm
Girl walking round shop has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/bonnie_c_sobe.htm
Girl working on wood carving has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/dixieann_t_sobe.htm
Man talking to personnel dept has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/iran_sobe.htm
Truck driver has OBE            http://www.oberf.org/dwight_m_sobe.htm
Woman driving car has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/nora_j_sobe.htm
Woman walking down 5th Ave has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/karen_k_sobe.htm
Woman walking/talking with friend in park has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/samantha_k_sobe.htm
Screaming kicking girl has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/luise_sobe.htm
Screaming infant has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/kevin_r_sobe.htm
Man walking/talking with cousin has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/brandon_sobe_2320.htm
Woman standing/talking with her mother has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/annie_b_sobe.htm
Girl sitting on swing has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/lisa_c_sobe.htm
Schoolgirl walking home has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kimberly_k_sobe.htm
Woman fighting off carjacker has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/amy_i_sobe.htm
Woman smoking/driving has OBE(s)      http://www.oberf.org/karen_d_sobe.htm
Man walking to beach has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/wayne_sobe.htm
Woman being screamed at has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kim_sobe.htm
Man sitting on porch with friend has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/david_s_sobe.htm
Person attending concert has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/onowa_v_sobe.htm
Hospital patient walking down corridor has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/william_b_sobe.htm
Man receiving bad news has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/shelly_k_sobe.htm
Woman standing at father’s funeral has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jen_c_sobe.htm
Woman using ladies room has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kathryn_w's_sobe.htm
Man sitting in bar has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/gary_m's_sobe.htm

And the following are just too intriguing to omit;  They include a woman who physically chased her own astral body, an astral body which chased its physical body, a spontaneous dual OBE shared by two people whilst standing and talking, a precognitive OBE, an OBEr who talked to her physical friend teleptahically, and finally an OBEr who split into two "astral consciousnesses":

Woman physically chases her Astral Body!      http://www.oberf.org/dawn_k_sobe.htm
Girl chases her physical body whilst OBE       http://www.oberf.org/jewel_sobe.htm
Two talking women have a shared simultaneous OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jean_j_sobe.htm
Girl standing in baseball field has precognitive OBE    http://www.oberf.org/carolyn_t_sobe.htm
Woman talks telepathically to her friend whilst OBE    http://www.oberf.org/debi_s_sobe.htm
Person splits into two “selves” which whilst OBE   http://www.oberf.org/lourens_m_sobe.htm

Taken from my post here

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/obes_while_wide_awake_with_mind_split-t38124.0.html;msg312766#msg312766


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Xanth on December 23, 2012, 16:28:45
Bedeekin, I understand that you have experienced this a few times?

The Mind Split has been dealt with at length on this board.  It is NOT dual awareness. It is a true split in consciousness into two consciousnesses which then continue independently. One retains control of the physical body and is unaware of the existence of the other. The other goes into the RTZ and usually observes the physical body (quite accurately) going about its normal activity:

Here are some examples.

Nurse attending to patient has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/marcia_t_sobe.htm
Girl walking round shop has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/bonnie_c_sobe.htm
Girl working on wood carving has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/dixieann_t_sobe.htm
Man talking to personnel dept has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/iran_sobe.htm
Truck driver has OBE            http://www.oberf.org/dwight_m_sobe.htm
Woman driving car has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/nora_j_sobe.htm
Woman walking down 5th Ave has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/karen_k_sobe.htm
Woman walking/talking with friend in park has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/samantha_k_sobe.htm
Screaming kicking girl has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/luise_sobe.htm
Screaming infant has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/kevin_r_sobe.htm
Man walking/talking with cousin has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/brandon_sobe_2320.htm
Woman standing/talking with her mother has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/annie_b_sobe.htm
Girl sitting on swing has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/lisa_c_sobe.htm
Schoolgirl walking home has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kimberly_k_sobe.htm
Woman fighting off carjacker has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/amy_i_sobe.htm
Woman smoking/driving has OBE(s)      http://www.oberf.org/karen_d_sobe.htm
Man walking to beach has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/wayne_sobe.htm
Woman being screamed at has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kim_sobe.htm
Man sitting on porch with friend has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/david_s_sobe.htm
Person attending concert has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/onowa_v_sobe.htm
Hospital patient walking down corridor has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/william_b_sobe.htm
Man receiving bad news has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/shelly_k_sobe.htm
Woman standing at father’s funeral has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jen_c_sobe.htm
Woman using ladies room has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kathryn_w's_sobe.htm
Man sitting in bar has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/gary_m's_sobe.htm

And the following are just too intriguing to omit;  They include a woman who physically chased her own astral body, an astral body which chased its physical body, a spontaneous dual OBE shared by two people whilst standing and talking, a precognitive OBE, an OBEr who talked to her physical friend teleptahically, and finally an OBEr who split into two "astral consciousnesses":

Woman physically chases her Astral Body!      http://www.oberf.org/dawn_k_sobe.htm
Girl chases her physical body whilst OBE       http://www.oberf.org/jewel_sobe.htm
Two talking women have a shared simultaneous OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jean_j_sobe.htm
Girl standing in baseball field has precognitive OBE    http://www.oberf.org/carolyn_t_sobe.htm
Woman talks telepathically to her friend whilst OBE    http://www.oberf.org/debi_s_sobe.htm
Person splits into two “selves” which whilst OBE   http://www.oberf.org/lourens_m_sobe.htm

Taken from my post here

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/obes_while_wide_awake_with_mind_split-t38124.0.html;msg312766#msg312766
Ah, I understand what you mean now.  Thank you.

Knowing what I know now about consciousness, the definition of what you're referring to here doesn't occur.  This is the same kind of "split" that occurs to you each time you fall asleep at night.  Your physical body *can* go on automode for just about everything that can occur in life, we've have plenty of proof of this.  Like people driving to a distant location while being completely unaware of this (I have a friend who did this during a concussion, went to bed, woke up at a Coffee Shop a short drive from his house).  Sleepwalking is another example.  This is what's occurring... it's not so much a "mind split", as it is that one part of the dual consciousness just hasn't retained any level of waking awareness.

To me, this is a misinterpretation (as most things tend to be lol) of the experience.  In these cases, it's like dreaming, but in reverse.  The individual is consciously aware while being non-physical, yet their physical counterpart is doing the dreaming (aka physically consciously unaware).  Or another way to put it is that there was no waking awareness within that physical reality frame. 

I think people need to begin to do more comparisons between our physical and non-physical lives.  I've found so many similarities that it can't be a coincidence... and as such, my experiences support the conclusions I've drawn.  You may ask WHY should we compare physical experiences to non-physical experiences?   Because that, as I've found, ultimately they're THE SAME THING.  There is no discernible difference between what we have come to know as this physical reality... and any other non-physical reality we encounter.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 23, 2012, 17:48:34
This sounds like a suggestion placed during hypnosis. Told you will have no memory unti...
Is it a memory retention failiure or an absolute split of conciousness?
We read of shadow memory and losses during 'conversion' to physical memory especially after an exit to high frequency NPR's.
Anyone any insight on this?


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Xanth on December 23, 2012, 17:56:28
This sounds like a suggestion placed during hypnosis. Told you will have no memory unti...
Is it a memory retention failiure or an absolute split of conciousness?
We read of shadow memory and losses during 'conversion' to physical memory especially after an exit to high frequency NPR's.
Anyone any insight on this?
I view those interpretations as a means to over-complicate something that is rather simplistic in nature.  Consciousness is so very simple, that it's mind-boggling.  I've found that people enjoy adding convoluted layers to all this non-physical stuff. 

When you view consciousness and conscious awareness as a continuum of sorts... it makes it all so much easier.  All the blocks begin to fall into place.
I'm amazed that more people haven't figured this out yet.  But at the same time, I'm also not surprised they haven't... beliefs and all tend to get in the way of objectivity.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 23, 2012, 19:11:29
Thats not what Im pondering. Its the 'you' part of conciousness. If this is a singularity of sorts then its very simple. If a suggestion is all it takes to manipulate the 'you' then your conciousness can be directed with an understanding of how to...
The art of projection becomes far easier to achieve.
A precise directive assuming this would change the world almost overnight.
It's a long shot but anythings possible.
A thought on the daydreaming process where the physical world dissapears is a step in the right direction for BOTH.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Xanth on December 23, 2012, 19:37:21
Thats not what Im pondering. Its the 'you' part of conciousness. If this is a singularity of sorts then its very simple. If a suggestion is all it takes to manipulate the 'you' then your conciousness can be directed with an understanding of how to...
The art of projection becomes far easier to achieve.
A precise directive assuming this would change the world almost overnight.
It's a long shot but anythings possible.
A thought on the daydreaming process where the physical world dissapears is a step in the right direction for BOTH.
100% agreed.  :)


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: majour ka on December 23, 2012, 20:08:35
I project quite allot but ive never yet experienced sleep paralysis in my life.

Just relaxing the body and shifting awareness to the subtle body with practice. Or enter AP through lucid dream state.

Im sure its the agility of the mind and relationship with our own consciousness and subtle body that allows the shift from physical focus to astral/spirit awareness.





Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: majour ka on December 23, 2012, 20:20:26
An interesting fact that a lot of beginners fail to realise is that SP happens to everyone. Every single person who ever dreams has non-conscious Sleep Paralysis in the form of REM atonia. SP is just the term given to being aware of the process.

It's highly probable to the point of certainty that you will be undergoing REM atonia when you are in the thick of a projection Szaxx... just that you are not aware of it... the same goes for anyone projecting or dreaming.

The question could be better asked... "Can Astral Projection be accomplished without being aware of Sleep Paralysis?"

Hiya  :-) while I understand what your saying and at the risk of splitting hairs it can only be considered SP if your aware of it. It could argued that we are in SP when we are asleep, but we can jump up awake and get out of bed if the door bell rings for eg. Yet from what I understand while experiencing SP that is most likely not possible, hence the term "paralysis".

Sleep is actually a very active state. There is often more physical body activity than when awake (according to scientific studies)

Re your question: Yes of course  :wink: Ive never personally known SP  :-)


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 23, 2012, 21:22:38
 @ Majour ka, I'd hazard a guess that NP awareness/ travelling is one thing you have known since your earliest memories.
@ All, has anyone worked out a commonality with various methods of attaining the NP?
No need to state the obvious, its the niche or totally unexpected events that speak a thousand words.
Comments during SP would be especially interesting.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: AstralCody on December 23, 2012, 21:49:22
Absolutely. SP is just a gateway toward AP. I laid down once and projected instantly.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Xanth on December 23, 2012, 21:51:33
Hiya  :-) while I understand what your saying and at the risk of splitting hairs it can only be considered SP if your aware of it. It could argued that we are in SP when we are asleep, but we can jump up awake and get out of bed if the door bell rings for eg. Yet from what I understand while experiencing SP that is most likely not possible, hence the term "paralysis".

Sleep is actually a very active state. There is often more physical body activity than when awake (according to scientific studies)

Re your question: Yes of course  :wink: Ive never personally known SP  :-)
You're quite correct that it really happens everytime you fall asleep, but in such a case it's called Atonia.  More accurately, REM Atonia.
In practice, the only time it's actually called "sleep paralysis" is when REM Atonia is functioning incorrectly and you become consciously aware before the Atonia wears off.

As for the activeness of sleep... the REM portions of our sleep have relatively close to the same kind of brain activity as our waking brain activity shows.  That, in itself, is astounding.  :)



Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Xanth on December 23, 2012, 21:55:31
@ All, has anyone worked out a commonality with various methods of attaining the NP?
NP?  Non-physical?

Has anyone worked out a commonality between all the various methods of projection?
Yup, I have... it's the entire basis behind all my 'projection' work. 

At the risk of sounding, duh... lol The commonality is YOU and your attention towards this physical reality.
I've always said that if you can tell me a technique, I can break it down and tell you exactly WHY it works.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: catmeow on December 23, 2012, 22:41:20
This sounds like a suggestion placed during hypnosis. Told you will have no memory unti...
Is it a memory retention failiure or an absolute split of conciousness?
We read of shadow memory and losses during 'conversion' to physical memory especially after an exit to high frequency NPR's.
Anyone any insight on this?

I see it as a true split in consciousness. When the NP consciousness re-integrates with the physical, then only one set of memories (either physical or NP) survives. If the NP memories survive, then the experience is remembered as an OOBE. If the physical memories triumph, then nothing out of the ordinary is remembered. I think it's a very simple and elegant idea.

It doesn't stop at just a simple physical/NP split. There are examples where people have experienced multiple NP consciousnesses, each operating independently. In fact, the "oversoul" or "higher self" consciousness is an example of mind split. We have, or can have multiple consciousnesses operating simultaneously and independently, each using the same "ident". It's a very simple idea.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 24, 2012, 00:15:06
I've been very aware of myself and out of nowhere comes a visual distortion usually a blue fog. Then I know of some impending event that I can prevent. This all happens while doing my daily tasks, outside of the autopilot mode. I just KNOW and its never wrong. Is this some part of the mind split where a part of my higher self somehow integrates itself and lets me know?
Can't find much on a satisfactory explanation. I just accept it.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: majour ka on December 24, 2012, 01:09:47
You're quite correct that it really happens everytime you fall asleep, but in such a case it's called Atonia.  More accurately, REM Atonia.
In practice, the only time it's actually called "sleep paralysis" is when REM Atonia is functioning incorrectly and you become consciously aware before the Atonia wears off.

As for the activeness of sleep... the REM portions of our sleep have relatively close to the same kind of brain activity as our waking brain activity shows.  That, in itself, is astounding.  :)


Cool ta, that makes sense !  :-)


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: majour ka on December 24, 2012, 01:12:05
@ Majour ka, I'd hazard a guess that NP awareness/ travelling is one thing you have known since your earliest memories.


Erm yeah thats true actaully! I can remember many nights flying around my room when I was around 4 years old, but everyone thought I was making it up LOL.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 24, 2012, 03:10:16
It was an educated guess from your comments.  I was told the exact same. Overactive imagination too. Invisible friends....
It would appear that naturals never get SP. Lol.
Another thing is sleep. The amount of hours is shorter by comparison to most.
Its either an energy thing or we are ok walking around like zombies. :-D


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 24, 2012, 08:36:45
Hiya  :-) while I understand what your saying and at the risk of splitting hairs it can only be considered SP if your aware of it. It could argued that we are in SP when we are asleep, but we can jump up awake and get out of bed if the door bell rings for eg. Yet from what I understand while experiencing SP that is most likely not possible, hence the term "paralysis".

We aren't paralysed. It's an unfortunate term because it denotes the same thing as what happens either when we trap a nerve or sever the communication between brain and neurons. SP is a totally different thing.

It is a switch... just a little switch over that disavows the two way communication between brain and muscle. It isn't even partial paralysis... it is more like different type of communication rather than less communication. It can be switched from on to off at the flick of a mental switch.

SP can be either violent and noticeable or subtle and hardly noticeable... it is something everybody does every night of their life. When you switch from dream to Lucid Dream... you are in REM atonia... if you woke up from this without breaking trance you would find yourself in Sleep Paralysis which is still REM atonia but you are just aware of it.

Over the last few years I have come to realise that SP isn't a requirement to be experienced... I once did though.


It would appear that naturals never get SP. Lol.
Another thing is sleep. The amount of hours is shorter by comparison to most.

It is fairly evident that there are those that do experience it and those that don't. Neither are more natural than the other I am sure. This is a silly notion and would lead to a 'them and us' situation... and sooner or later we would end up with an SP forum and a non SP forum... naturals and un-naturals. Which is stupid and counter productive to what we are all trying to put across.

I started experiencing SP and OOBE naturally... I didn't want it nor did I practice it to achieve OOBE... it just happened and OOBE was a result of getting it. I didn't spend months or years trying to learn something I had heard of it happened and evolved without any outside influence from anybody. So even though I induce (or not) SP to get OOBE that has I might add resulted in probably over 4000+ experiences over the years... makes it non the less natural as those who don't experience SP.

I sleep 3 - 4 hours a night.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: michaelpast on December 24, 2012, 14:59:07
is it quite easy to succeed if i take a nap before inducing SP?


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 24, 2012, 22:18:08
With the lol at the end it was intended as a pun only. I'll agree anything liable to cause negative differentiation should be addressed. Thanks for pointing this out. I detest wars of any kind and they are totally against my character. I'll apologize to any who found this comment offensive.
All those who have been active since birth I know, don't get SP. I thought a witty comment may have produced information to the contrary.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 25, 2012, 00:24:14
Oh god.. .I didn't... I know you were loling. :)

I have thought it myself a few times anyway. But I don't know anyone personally (friends or acquaintances) other than yourselves who do it... unless I have taught them it.

I do remember flying about my house and speaking to alien-like beings when I was a little, little kid,  but never attributed them to OOBEs. I didn't get SP till I was 11 after suffering a bad fever.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: majour ka on December 25, 2012, 01:07:56
It was an educated guess from your comments.  I was told the exact same. Overactive imagination too. Invisible friends....
It would appear that naturals never get SP. Lol.
Another thing is sleep. The amount of hours is shorter by comparison to most.
Its either an energy thing or we are ok walking around like zombies. :-D


OMG Snap!!!!!!  :-o


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 25, 2012, 02:25:29
I have a wicked sense of humour and on occasion its too much for some.
No worries, you had a valid point so thats 1-0 to you. :wink:

Those I've taught, a few mentioned  SP and knew it was from my teachings. I never mentioned it per se but an adequate explanation of physical quietude led to their assumptions. I was in agreement with them as their preparation time far exceeded mine. Probably rem atonia doing its thing. Some however, notably one in particular had seen himself in bed on more than one occasion. He was 15 at that time. With his experiences already apparent it took a week of evening conversations until success.
Mostly RTZ as expected feedback. He never had SP as I remember.

My family elders never mentioned SP either just the vibrations. Im sure something would have been said. I'll ask next time if I get chance. They're old school 70+ so it could be interesting.

OMG snap... Who's winning? Im pretty quick yer know.  :-)


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Bedeekin on December 30, 2012, 10:40:48
My family elders never mentioned SP either just the vibrations. Im sure something would have been said. I'll ask next time if I get chance. They're old school 70+ so it could be interesting.

SP is the 'vibrations'.  :-)

Depends where you are coming from and what your interpretation is. Vibrations.. SP... old hag... lead blanket... weight being pressed down... swaying... buzzing... thumping... etc. The list is as endless as the plethora of verbs available.

People are thinking that 'paralysis' is the key word. It's just the medical term for it and not accurate at all. Unfortunate choice of wording really.

If one was to say... "you will feel a buzzing" another might say "I didn't feel a buzzing... more of a tingle" or "It was like a swaying motion"... neither are describing different things. They are just interpreting them in a different way after noticing a specific phenomenology of the 'state'.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on December 30, 2012, 23:10:32
Interesting.
I don't get vibrations or the numbness, tingling or just about anything tactile. I do get sounds and these can be induced within a couple of mins day or night. A disconnectedness is all that's required. With these occuring I still have the ability to move. Itch removal being typical and still not losing the noises too much.
S.P. it's an appalling label.
The swaying can be produced easily, I increased this feeling a couple of nights ago and lost the physical within seconds. Immediately I started to rise towards the ceiling. No clear sight as expected. I could smell the plaster though going through it. Very strange event. Normally I'd be translocated to wherever.
It may have been on my mind as earlier I was thinking  I've not done a concious RTZ exit for 30 or so years.
It caused an unexpected stirr and I lost it...
It goes without saying, 48 years of NP activity and still learning...
I love it.  :-D


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Nameless on August 22, 2016, 21:45:01
So SP is not strictly necessary. However, almost all examples of mind split OBEs are spontaneous, not self induced.

So that is what it is called. Reading old topics has paid off. I've been enjoying this one and finally have found a description of a few events I've had. Thanks to all the contributors.

ETA: Spoke too soon :(


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Nameless on August 22, 2016, 21:56:11
I've been very aware of myself and out of nowhere comes a visual distortion usually a blue fog. Then I know of some impending event that I can prevent. This all happens while doing my daily tasks, outside of the autopilot mode. I just KNOW and its never wrong. Is this some part of the mind split where a part of my higher self somehow integrates itself and lets me know?
Can't find much on a satisfactory explanation. I just accept it.

This! Except I don't see a blue fog. This is where/when I will see a coming event or lately a few times other stuff I have yet to work out.


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Szaxx on August 23, 2016, 01:56:41
A better explanation would be a haziness that overlays physical sight if it's a visual perception. I have had thick blue fog appear and this was specific to one family. The generalised 'knowing' that's not visual is normally a kind of imprint in your mind. A strong one will stir up emotions you didn't know you had. I've found out recently that it's the thoughts others are going to have that's percieved. These can be very strong and break you into pieces. You become them and all that follows from their point of view. These strong ones are rare, you only receive what you can handle so there's no nutcase suite required. Lol. 
Feelings may have another meaning outside of the physical norm, have you recognised this yet in a more often attached sort of way?


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: Nameless on August 23, 2016, 02:15:22
A better explanation would be a haziness that overlays physical sight if it's a visual perception. I have had thick blue fog appear and this was specific to one family. The generalised 'knowing' that's not visual is normally a kind of imprint in your mind. A strong one will stir up emotions you didn't know you had. I've found out recently that it's the thoughts others are going to have that's percieved. These can be very strong and break you into pieces. You become them and all that follows from their point of view. These strong ones are rare, you only receive what you can handle so there's no nutcase suite required. Lol. 
Feelings may have another meaning outside of the physical norm, have you recognised this yet in a more often attached sort of way?

Exactly and that is exactly what happened when I was three, only I had absolutely no reference point. And the perception lasted an entire day. It's that 'knowing' without understanding why that was so hard but it foreshadowed events that happened in the near future. It actually took me years to tie that 'knowing' in with what happened later. I'm glad they are rare although now being older and somewhat wiser it wouldn't be as bad (I hope).


Title: Re: Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?
Post by: ThaomasOfGrey on August 23, 2016, 09:11:58
Szaxx, I am intrigued by your idea on perceiving the future thoughts of others. The sense of "knowing" is what the locals name Claire-cognizance. I have experienced it a few times in my life in the form of a precognition. The thought enters your mind "what if this bus crashed?", but it is more than a proposal, it is a sense that this bus WILL crash with certainty and 10 seconds later it does.

I never had the impression that I was getting post event information via someone's thoughts. The message was delivered in the tense of an event to come. I guess it comes in different flavors for different people.