The Astral Pulse

Astral Chat => Welcome to Astral Chat! => Topic started by: Stillwater on October 20, 2014, 07:51:16



Title: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 20, 2014, 07:51:16
I place this here, rather than in the Energy section because I don't frankly have a clue what an energy body is. That stuff is outside of my sphere.  )

Well, I can say now that I may have been visited by one of those peak experiences that defines the heights of what spirituality can offer to humanity, and I feel as though I have been given a glimpse of a sacred gift of the first order.

It happened by accident almost, but for the reader's benefit, and to explain what it was, and what context I have to understand it at all, I will preface with the famous story of Saint Teresa.

Teresa of Avila was a nun who practiced devotional mysticism. She spent much of her time in deep meditation contemplating her idea of divinity in the Catholic tradition that was known to her. The episode of her life for which she is most famous came during a time she fell ill, and during that time her devotional meditation brought her by chance an episode of supreme ecstasy which overcame her completely, which she understood as sexual union with the godhead.

"I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying."

Even as a child, I was captivated by that story, and especially by the overwhelmingly beautiful sculptural depiction of the event by Bernini. Such rapture! Her face is contorted into twisted torsions of joy, and her frame has collapsed from the weight of it as she convulses. Ever since learning of the story, I can say that the idea of such an overwhelming experience- to be visited as the lover of the divine- was one of the most compelling concepts I ever found in spiritual texts.

Not to mention, I have always admired how, even amongst the sexual repression of the Catholic Church, Bernini was able to tell the unabashedly immoderate story of how human sensuality is a gift for understanding and communing with the infinite! What a curiously surprising thing for nuns and school children to see enshrined in a Catholic Cathedral.


(http://i.imgur.com/RdU23C2l.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/3JZuqLGl.jpg)


The next thing I will preface with is that I have always had great love for the Hindu Upanishads. They were my first experience of spirituality, and a powerful first introduction to meditation, trance, and altered states. I discovered them as a child, maybe only 12 or so. I delighted in the idea that there were these ideas and experiences that normal people never got an opportunity to experience, that you could unlock merely by understanding your body and gaining control of your mind. I took away from those experiences many great gifts even then: an overriding love for the world and all of its inhabitants, a wonderful stillness of mind that brought me both joy and the mindfullness to be in control of my own thoughts, and the concept that the body and sensuality are a gift that is the birthright of humanity.

I am not certain if I am just pre-disposed to be a sensual person, or if it is life experiences like that, but it is worth pointing out that sense experiences (paintings, music, literary imagery) can be extremely powerful for me. Very often music that resonates with me will send waves of feeling over my skin, and pulses through my spine.

So on to the experience itself.

I have for a little while been revisiting the exercises and techniques I recall from the Upanishads. I had decided that where I am now in my life, I have more perspective to understand them, and to apply what I learned then with what I know now. And that turned out to be miraculously true.

Many people here will be familiar with the Chakra system concept. I have my own views on what this system is, but I won't go into those here. Those familiar will know the concept that the base chakra is the root of the body's energy, which is heavily sensual in nature, and gets transduced into other forms. At least that is the Hindu understanding, and what many practitioners believe today. Suffice to say that the exercise I was following from memory dealt with this transduction.

Many people may also be familiar with the concept that the yogis will never explain their full techniques, or put them into writing, because they are believed to be incredibly dangerous for untrained eyes to find. I am also of this belief, and so I will not here publish the exact thing I was doing, for fear that others may find it at the wrong time on their path and do themselves harm; I am incredibly sorry to be such a tease with something this sublime, although those of you who want more details can discuss it via PM. I can say I am of the belief that with the right knowledge, likely any healthy and fit person can experience what I experienced then. But it would be irresponsible of me to post such things here.

Suffice to say, I was on my back, after having entered heavy trance, and was in the process that the yogi's understood to be the transferance of energy from the low center upward. My reasons for following these exercises was to explore the effects, and note the sensations from my current life perspective. Note... the sensations. These words proved very weak for what happened next. With very little warning, there was a sharp contraction in my abdomen, and a surge of sensation shot along my spine. These sensations repeated and quickly intensified. Soon I was arching my back, and massive waves of sensual feeling were surging through my limbs, neck, face, extremities... the motions were the semi-voluntary means to flow with the feeling, but they soon became near involuntary. My entire form was wracked with force of such great intensity it filled every nerve with hyper-peak excitement, and it was impossible not to gasp and vocalize very strongly with the overwhelming force of it all. My shoulders, as they took on the weight of my body as my spine arched into the air fiercely, throbbed and pulsated as though being massaged by angels. My toes curled as far as they could move. I think the female readers will have some context for partially understanding these sensations, but their magnitude was astronomical.

As I have remarked, I am an extremely sensual person. I feel most things far more strongly than most. Up till now, I would rate the highest intensity my nervous system has ever responded with at a 12 out of 10, lol. This was a 50 out of 10. It was outside of anything I expected human forms capable of experiencing. It was a perfect union of agony and electrifying full body response. It lasted for what I surmise was a few minutes, but was an eternal moment, and it left me unable to move or do anything but rest for a long time afterward. As my form writhed and shrieked, it was for a moment an extinction of self and a union with everything. I was the bed, I was the air, I was creation itself, and I was burning with the power of a star. When it "ended" (I am not sure it even has yet) I was both flooded with joy and filled with relief to have come through to the other side of it. It was every bit the supremely exhilerating visitation from the godhead, and the effects are as much emotional as they were physical.

The event itself is something that has lasting echoes as well. I still feel tingling nerves playing over my limbs for large parts of the day, even a week later now. It is as though a powerful amount of energy has been transduced into pure joy that animates my entire life. Walking is like dancing. While I have always felt a strong connection between myself and the natural world while outdoors, now it is like I am part of a chorus. Running is like sex. I feel waves of feverish heat still flowing over my body as aftershocks. I get the impression that even though I know how to make it happen again in theory, that I would be ill-advised to try, because I am still coming to terms with the effects of it having happened even once. I don't even know how long these effects will be with me... if it is like my childhood, maybe forever.

I very much understand now why the Hindus feel base Chakra energy is the fire that fuels everything, and that its transduction is a supremely powerful action. Perhaps this is what people refer to as "Kundalini" these days, although for me the experience was very spinal, but without that painful twisting people report of that event. Even so, I don't think it is wise for me to follow further down that path, because the bodily effects are profound, and are clearly outside of my control. It may be years before I feel up to allowing it to happen a second time. I feel like a thimble that was asked to hold a river. In fact, the shock of it all prevented me from expressing it here until today. Even now, I feel my shoulders throb and heave. I have long overflown.

English is a powerful, powerful language, but there is only so much you can express in words. Bernini's Ecstasy of Saint Teresa above is a much greater attempt at the concept than I can provide. I can't help look at her image now, and think to myself, "Yeah, I get it Sister."

I hope this helps someone, in some way!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on October 20, 2014, 09:22:07
Thank you for sharing that. I take it this recently happened. I would suggest taking it easy and allowing the effects to settle. You not done cooking yet and you need to be healed and adjusted to the energy before the next step can happen.

  What you experienced is similar to what happened to me at initiation. About a month later I had this happen again and it continues. My teacher is helping me to learn to use the energy and manage it appropriately.
Now when things settle and your feeling kinda dumped back into a reality you don't really want to be in. You call on God for help, when you do open your heart and focus on the area that hurts. The pain will then disapate. Do the same for any physical pain as well.

Don't try to push for the highs just relax and try to go with the flow you cannot force this. You still have to live in the physical which is why it's important to come fully back after the rush happens. I know I struggle with it. I have to be forced back and sometimes it's so difficult emotionally to leave that bliss. But what I have been told is that it's important to bring this energy this goodness to people who do not yet have it. Everyone is meant to experience this and those who discover this union can help those who are still wandering. The union is incomplete without the rest of humanity there with us. We cannot leave the others behind.

When that last gate opened I thought I had been killed. When I saw the account of St. Theresa I felt a bit better. It wasn't so much the physical pain as it was emotional as I thought I had failed and was being struck down. It wasn't pleasant I was able to break the illusion after I " died". The entire ritual took 3 days. On the third day I was healed and able to get up.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on October 20, 2014, 14:34:51
How eloquently worded.
 :wink:


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on October 20, 2014, 17:30:43
That's awesome, Stillwater!!    Catholics choose a favorite saint's name to add to their own name, and when I joined my church, I chose Teresa of Avilla.  I've always felt such a kinship with her because of our similar experiences.  My first was in my 20's and have continued every so often to the present.  Such a beautiful thing... that total union and intimacy with God.  So hard to live in the world after, but who would trade it?



Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on October 20, 2014, 18:01:39
Love this Christian song by Third Day.  To me it says it all.  I play it on my guitar and sing it to God.

Nothing Compares

I've heard all the stories,  I've seen all the signs  
Witnessed all the glory, tasted all that's fine

But nothing compares...to the greatness of knowing you, Lord   (2x)

I've seen all the people, wasting all their time
building up their riches, for a life that's fine

But nothing compares... to the greatness of knowing you, Lord  (2x)

So I find myself just living for today
Cuz I don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring
so no matter if I rise or fall
I'll never be alone...

Nothing compares.....  etc.!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: mon9999 on October 20, 2014, 18:50:50
Finally somebody post about this! I had a similar experience back when I was still a catholic with no knowledge of metaphysics.. I had a very deep love and affection to Jesus Christ and then it just happen, everything becomes soo blissful.. It lasted for a few months and I lost it after I had a sexual contact.. I would never forget those times, the ecstatic, euphoric and blissful feeling.. I think this is the kind of feeling that the people experiences during higher spiritual dimension projection or near-death experience..
I want that bliss to return but it just couldn't happen since my eyes had been open to metaphysics I just couldn't love Jesus deeply no more.. My faith is just gone


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 20, 2014, 23:09:36
Quote
Thank you for sharing that.

In a way I felt very obligated. It is something that is rarely discussed or experienced, but something I would want many people to be aware exists and is very real. I wish I could show others how to get there, if I didn't feel it could be so dangerous as well.

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I would suggest taking it easy and allowing the effects to settle. You not done cooking yet and you need to be healed and adjusted to the energy before the next step can happen.

Yeah, for sure. Right now, every time I settle down into bed, my arms are telling me, "Hey! This is where it happened! Take us back there, won't you?". It is something my body longs to experience again, but I don't feel I should go back until I understand it more fully after a long stretch of time. It feels like too much too quickly, and getting burned feels a very real result of getting too far.

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What you experienced is similar to what happened to me at initiation. About a month later I had this happen again and it continues.

It would be good of you to share anything you were comfortable with- what started it all for you, how it went down, and how you dealt with it in the long term. Did you ever put any of it into writing?

Quote
Don't try to push for the highs just relax and try to go with the flow you cannot force this. You still have to live in the physical which is why it's important to come fully back after the rush happens. I know I struggle with it. I have to be forced back and sometimes it's so difficult emotionally to leave that bliss.

Yes, that violently electrified place feels like a second home I have returned from somehow now. I get the impression that when I am ready to visit again, I should take it very slowly, and allow the feeling to develop at a much gentler pace. Going from intensity 5 to intensity 50 was too much too soon. It was sublimely exhilerating, but it seems unwise to repeat in the same way. It has already changed my experience of the physical world. My perspective had already been heavily altered by years of spiritual practice, and this has put me yet another huge rung up the ladder to being terribly out of sync with modern physical life. If you saw me, you might mistake me for a person overdosing on antidepressants. Normal people don't have a context for understanding a person in this state. I am unnaturally animated.

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But what I have been told is that it's important to bring this energy this goodness to people who do not yet have it. Everyone is meant to experience this and those who discover this union can help those who are still wandering. The union is incomplete without the rest of humanity there with us. We cannot leave the others behind.

I feel this very strongly too. There is no way to share to any given person what that sort of experience is like. I was allowed to get a peek of a shadow of the infinite, and yet I am sworn to secrecy. The best I can do is to treat those around me with the greatest warmth and care I can muster at all times, without making them uncomfortable at my uninhibited expressiveness.

Thanks for sharing your perspective so far, Blue! There really isn't a handbook for this.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 20, 2014, 23:14:21
Quote
That's awesome, Stillwater!!    Catholics choose a favorite saint's name to add to their own name, and when I joined my church, I chose Teresa of Avilla.  I've always felt such a kinship with her because of our similar experiences.  My first was in my 20's and have continued every so often to the present.  Such a beautiful thing... that total union and intimacy with God.  So hard to live in the world after, but who would trade it?

Having spent a lot of time in a Catholic setting, I knew many Teresas... all incredibly uninhibited people, with powerful dedications to serving others, and some of them are lifelong friends.

I am wondering what their mothers knew at this point, haha.  :lol:


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 20, 2014, 23:23:01
Quote
Finally somebody post about this! I had a similar experience back when I was still a catholic with no knowledge of metaphysics.. I had a very deep love and affection to Jesus Christ and then it just happen, everything becomes soo blissful.. It lasted for a few months and I lost it after I had a sexual contact.. I would never forget those times, the ecstatic, euphoric and blissful feeling.. I think this is the kind of feeling that the people experiences during higher spiritual dimension projection or near-death experience..

As I say, I feel obligated to talk about it. It seems like something I shouldn't keep to myself, especially in a place like this, where people have some background to understand it, or have even experienced it themselves. I would like many people to be aware that this is something real that they can easily experience, and that it can reshape their lives and perspectives powerfully. I know this after merely a week.

Quote
I want that bliss to return but it just couldn't happen since my eyes had been open to metaphysics I just couldn't love Jesus deeply no more.. My faith is just gone

I don't think creation or the creator cares what it is called. Just because you experienced that devotion in one name, doesn't mean you still can't have a very personal connection to it by the name you now know it by, or that you are knowing a different being! I think what you experienced then is still available to you now, if you are open to it!


Quote
How eloquently worded.

And thanks Szaxx! Something tells me you have been there before too.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on October 21, 2014, 00:29:25
Good stuff.
This thread should be sticky. May help some people understand what they are living through.
Very well described Stillwater.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on October 21, 2014, 06:30:08
First one,
burning with the eternal flame,
Corkscrewed spine and oh that pain,
Contortions outside inside the mind,
Tranqil essence all one did find.
Is life is death is that there,
I lost this one too young despaired.
 
I was helped out from this initial experience. The second one a couple of years later after learning a great deal from astral experiences.

I had control of this one. Anyone experiencing it should be passive. It will run away with you if you're not ready as I found out the first time.
In one word bliss, you don't want to return.
I assume it's a connection with the source, the experience is in a class of its own and you do return partly in those formless experiences from time to time.
I wasn't 10 years old the first time so innocence and being introduced to the astral proper for a short time only gave me help from guides. They knew I was ready for the experience, I had other ideas at that time. Being on my own in this was one way of learning by boundaries being pushed beyond what you think are your limits.

Three years ago I read about the kundalini experiences and thought this explained some of it.
The religious characters I saw that helped were affectionate. I had seen them previously at my point of transition from the RTZ to astral guided tour. Things have opened up words can't even attempt to address.

Eloquence is the nearest description to it all.

The tears of joy in the flames of life.



Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 21, 2014, 07:10:13
Quote
I had control of this one. Anyone experiencing it should be passive. It will run away with you if you're not ready as I found out the first time.

In one sense, I was passive in allowing it to take me where it wanted, and in giving it an exit path through my body's ports by flowing with it. Perhaps this was also inviting it in a dangerous way. When I first felt it flooding in, I was very open to it. It hit violently, but I think the intensity it reached may have been a factor of a submission to it. I embraced the experience, and intrinsically told it I would go where it wanted to take me. Looking back, I am not sure if things would have been different had I not been open to it, but I suspect this open-ness allowed the energy to reach peaks of terrifyingly out of control intensity that might not otherwise have happened.

I am thankful that there was very little in what I would call a conventional understanding of pain. The pain of it was partially my nervous system being stressed beyond what its capacity can safely cope with (being overloaded), and the over-straining of muscles beyond what they could contract to, while still trying to contract more, combined with a fear of the violence of it (but this fear was overshadowed by the ecstasy).

The next time this happens, I think that I will still be open to it, but I will implore it to take its time. I can see that going with it where it wants to go full speed can possibly be ruinous.

And flames is right. The Christian concept that even a shadow of the experience of God will consume a person in flame for its brilliance is an apt description of all of this. 


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on October 21, 2014, 07:53:26
At first it was only like a needle in the back for me. Made me feel quite uncomfortable.
Then a small knife, then a dagger, the more it went the more it felt uncomfortable.
The evolution took it's time and I didn't know what it was until I saw this post Stillwater.
Everyday it felt really weird going to sleep because I knew it was gonna happen again and again.
At first I was really scared. Then I understood that it wasn't damaging me. My attitude changed to a challenging one.
-Oh yeah you wanna stab me? Go ahead I ain't scared!
Then as soon as I fell asleep, it took another stab. One that felt so uncomfortable.
When I understood that I couldn't stop the contact that was gonna happen when I was about to sleep,
I started calming down and accept it was gonna happen again.
It did, almost every night when I was sleeping on my right side.
Then I understood it was a contact, but I didn't know what kind or anything.
The more it happened the stranger it felt and one day I started enjoying it, because to me it was a real manifestation.
When you finally change your attitude about it (for me I didn't know what it was so I took that as an aggression).
Then that manifestation will grow even stronger each time.
I felt it once going through from my back to my chest and my back just curved automatically backward.
It feels as if god went straight through you.
It's very ecstatic and a blissful experience.
It's as if every night when you go to sleep you die and you are reborn the next day.

It feels exceptional to live this experience.
I'm not sure but I think only the ones who have unbreakable faith get this kind of "special treatment" if we can say so.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on October 21, 2014, 11:09:13
In the physical world time is linear, wherever the experience comes from time doesn't seem to exist.. It appeared almost instantly and not being ready for it was an experience in itself.
Wanting more time makes perfect sense, I had this the second time and was able to control the depth.
Once mastered you're free of fear and know it.
Your comment gave the recall immediately upon reading it. Worth keeping in mind for sure.lol


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on October 21, 2014, 14:00:28
In the physical world time is linear, wherever the experience comes from time doesn't seem to exist.. It appeared almost instantly and not being ready for it was an experience in itself.
Wanting more time makes perfect sense, I had this the second time and was able to control the depth.
Once mastered you're free of fear and know it.
Your comment gave the recall immediately upon reading it. Worth keeping in mind for sure.lol

Lol Szaxx you are spot on, it took me more than 2 times before understanding what was happening for me lol.
And you're right it makes you face your fears.
It's as if your god understood you and was making you advance faster toward the next step by showing you directly all your fears.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 22, 2014, 04:27:51
Quote
At first it was only like a needle in the back for me. Made me feel quite uncomfortable.
Then a small knife, then a dagger, the more it went the more it felt uncomfortable.
The evolution took it's time and I didn't know what it was until I saw this post Stillwater.
Everyday it felt really weird going to sleep because I knew it was gonna happen again and again.
At first I was really scared. Then I understood that it wasn't damaging me. My attitude changed to a challenging one.
-Oh yeah you wanna stab me? Go ahead I ain't scared!
Then as soon as I fell asleep, it took another stab. One that felt so uncomfortable.
When I understood that I couldn't stop the contact that was gonna happen when I was about to sleep,
I started calming down and accept it was gonna happen again.
It did, almost every night when I was sleeping on my right side.
Then I understood it was a contact, but I didn't know what kind or anything.
The more it happened the stranger it felt and one day I started enjoying it, because to me it was a real manifestation.
When you finally change your attitude about it (for me I didn't know what it was so I took that as an aggression).
Then that manifestation will grow even stronger each time.
I felt it once going through from my back to my chest and my back just curved automatically backward.
It feels as if god went straight through you.
It's very ecstatic and a blissful experience.
It's as if every night when you go to sleep you die and you are reborn the next day.

I may have been really lucky my practice seemed to activate it when it did, because in my life now I had the sort of experiences to know what to do with energy like that. It sounds really new-agey, but I think part of it may have to do with understanding male and female means of dealing with overflowing force; the female method- transferring it to the rest of the body- felt like the only way to deal with it safely. Thinking about it now, it could have been really painful actually if I stood against it, rather than welcoming it in. I have heard for some people these "spinal flows" can be very painful; for me it overflowed into the rest of my body and may have been experienced in the very best way possible.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on October 22, 2014, 06:14:37
My signature says so much...
More of us should experience this sensational wonderment.
Again words fail to do justice. :-D


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on October 22, 2014, 07:15:01
Stillwater, yes if I would have knew, I would have done the same thing from the beginning.
And yup Szaxx, no word to describe what's happening to us and what's ahead of us lol.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on October 22, 2014, 10:11:47
n one sense, I was passive in allowing it to take me where it wanted, and in giving it an exit path through my body's ports by flowing with it. Perhaps this was also inviting it in a dangerous way. When I first felt it flooding in, I was very open to it. It hit violently, but I think the intensity it reached may have been a factor of a submission to it. I embraced the experience, and intrinsically told it I would go where it wanted to take me. Looking back, I am not sure if things would have been different had I not been open to it, but I suspect this open-ness allowed the energy to reach peaks of terrifyingly out of control intensity that might not otherwise have happened.

I am thankful that there was very little in what I would call a conventional understanding of pain. The pain of it was partially my nervous system being stressed beyond what its capacity can safely cope with (being overloaded), and the over-straining of muscles beyond what they could contract to, while still trying to contract more, combined with a fear of the violence of it (but this fear was overshadowed by the ecstasy).

The next time this happens, I think that I will still be open to it, but I will implore it to take its time. I can see that going with it where it wants to go full speed can possibly be ruinous.

And flames is right. The Christian concept that even a shadow of the experience of God will consume a person in flame for its brilliance is an apt description of all of this. 

I was not aware of this. Do you remember where you heard this?

our priest studies Christian mysticism. It's too bad he's only with us for a couple months. I think there are more resource books on this sort of thing within the Chrisitan tradition. I will ask him today for the name of the series, to see if he can remember it.




The intensity increases as time goes on and you continue to do this inner work. "And flames is right. The Christian concept that even a shadow of the experience of God will consume a person in flame for its brilliance is an apt description of all of this.  "  I was not aware of this discription. It might be in the Catholic tradition. I think an important thing for people to understand is that this experience is not something that you need a church or guru or other religious leader for. This is a human experience. God however you understand him is for everyone. All people are meant for this not just gifted or special ones. The second thing is after the initial awakening, there is more to learn after. It is a milestone for sure but there are other milestones. You cannot reach all that can be reached living in the body and even when you leave and walk in spirit there is still more to go.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on October 22, 2014, 12:52:01
The flames I found to be the nearest physical attribute that most would understand.
Lets not forget the burning bush from the bible stories. It was one and the same to a 9 year old lol.
Afterthoughts generated this likeness mostly due to the purity of the helpers. Innocence is bliss has a personal meaning way outside of anything in the physical.
At the time I wasn't sure if being born in a chapel had anything to do with it but that remained an option until this recent revelation.
Niel Armstrong made one giant leap for mankind, I would like all mankind to take this experience for themselves. Perhaps like Tesla we are 'out of time' in the same respect. Trailblazers for future generations.

One must stand before one can walk, one must walk before one can run.
Early days...


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 22, 2014, 19:45:40
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I was not aware of this. Do you remember where you heard this?

I think a lot of it is people expanding the concept with their own visuals and imagery in the Christian tradition, although the root concept of the force of God burning anything less with its radiance is expressed several times in the Bible itself:

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And he said, You can not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exodus 33:20

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In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. Isaiah 6

In the Isaiah verse, I have heard it stated that the Hebrew and Aramaic is more suggestive- that they are covering their faces to shield themselves. The implication is that here the highest rank of angels in the Judeo-christian tradition know better than to look at God.

I am not myself a Christian, as that is not how I interface with the world. That said, there are fantastic things to be found in that tradition if you know where to look. I was immersed in Catholocism for several years as an outsider; I found that although I could not accept most of the basic premises ( I knew that going in), that there was much a person could learn from it if they were open to it, just as I had previously learned from the east. Watch a nun pray the rosary in some random Italian hill town and you will see what I mean.

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I think an important thing for people to understand is that this experience is not something that you need a church or guru or other religious leader for. This is a human experience. God however you understand him is for everyone. All people are meant for this not just gifted or special ones.

I whole-heartedly agree on each of these accounts. I think this experience may be a human birthright. It is over and above what many people ever get to experience, but I think the structure is there for any healthy person to experience it if they are led in the right directions. I don't feel like I am a special person for having experienced it (no more than everyone is special at least), but I count myself incredibly lucky.

I badly want to show others how to reach it too, but I know that I shouldn't until I have years of understanding it, before I even suggest how to engage with it. And even then... I want to be sure it is safe for people... I am not completely sure if it fully is at this point. Chasing it down Alice's cave seems like something I really have to take in measured amounts. I want to go far faster than I feel I should. Restraint seems like a virtue here unfortunately. If I am fully sane a couple years from now, I may consider putting the full concept into writing.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on October 22, 2014, 22:27:33


The next time this happens, I think that I will still be open to it, but I will implore it to take its time. I can see that going with it where it wants to go full speed can possibly be ruinous.

And flames is right. The Christian concept that even a shadow of the experience of God will consume a person in flame for its brilliance is an apt description of all of this. 






A couple of things I know of pertaining to the 'flame' concept -  There is a poem by St. John of the Cross called 'The Living Flame of Love.'  John knew St. Teresa, interestingly enough.  Some phrases from the poem  are- Oh living flame of love that tenderly wounds my soul in it's deepest center.  - Oh lamps of fire -Oh delightful wound - In killing, you changed death to life.

 From the Bible, Heb. 12:29  Therefore, since we receive a Kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.

About the possibility of this being ruinous, I can see that, and I think how one approaches it makes all the difference.  In my case, I didn't achieve it through meditation or through any specific practice. In fact I didn't know anything about meditation.  I spent time in prayer often, and I had my daily quiet times -if I was meditating, I certainly didn't know it.  I just had an unquenchable desire to know God.  So in this way, I didn't open any channel through my own doing, but rather made myself available for God/Source to decide when it was 'my time' and he directed the whole thing.  My first experience happened when I was just walking around the house doing laundry -so definitely not my doing! lol  The second time I asked God a question, and got an immediate answer (which was much more than I bargained for)  The third time (and most powerful of the three)  I had reached a point in my life where I realized I was still living a primarily selfish lifestyle.  In prayer, I gave over that selfish part of me, and told God that I wanted to stop living for myself and live to serve others.  It was an emotional and inspiring spiritual time for me.  After I had finished that prayer, I got up and just began business as usual again, and I distinctly heard a voice inside my head that said -Go lie down on your bed.  I have a gift for you.  I did, and that's when it happened.  The ecstasy lasted several minutes. My body could not have held anything more.  I was loved so powerfully and tenderly at the same time.  No words can describe the intimate bliss.

So I think that if one desires to know God, and gives them self humbly to service, and waits... They will get an experience that is a perfect fit for them and will not be ruinous.  God will make sure of that. He loves his children and will not let them be destroyed.  If a wound is inflicted, it will be for a reason and will not be more than you can bear.  In my experiences, the first two prepared me to be able to handle the third.  It was no accident that it happened that way.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't open themselves directly through the meditation technique, I don't really know about that -I don't even know what it is!  But the above is a very safe path to the experience, I feel.  Everyone should experience this... just be sure to make yourself spiritually ready.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 23, 2014, 01:44:22
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In fact I didn't know anything about meditation.  I spent time in prayer often, and I had my daily quiet times -if I was meditating, I certainly didn't know it.  I just had an unquenchable desire to know God.  So in this way, I didn't open any channel through my own doing, but rather made myself available for God/Source to decide when it was 'my time' and he directed the whole thing. 

Oh I know the sort of prayer you are talking about. To me, that full devotional prayer is actually very powerful and focused meditation, and meditation itself can be devotional. I think you and I approach the same place from opposite ends of the pool. I have ended up at times practicing a very fervorous meditation, and it sounds as though you practiced a very meditative prayer.

I have asked myself many times now why it happened precisely now. I think when I am honest with myself, I think I have been overflowing for a fair time before this all. I had become so full of love for everything, and want badly to express it to everyone I see, but you can only share with others what they are open to, and no more. It is a burden even, to have so much. I needed some kind of outlet to share it all. Looking back, I think I must have offered myself to the universe in that way, and perhaps in that moment this was the eventual response. For now, I am still coming to terms with what I do next. Maybe the next step will be shown to me, or maybe it is up to me to figure it out, I am not sure. But I have even more energy now than I did before the event, and I must help it find an outlet.



Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on October 23, 2014, 03:22:48
Oh I know the sort of prayer you are talking about. To me, that full devotional prayer is actually very powerful and focused meditation, and meditation itself can be devotional. I think you and I approach the same place from opposite ends of the pool. I have ended up at times practicing a very fervorous meditation, and it sounds as though you practiced a very meditative prayer.

I have asked myself many times now why it happened precisely now. I think when I am honest with myself, I think I have been overflowing for a fair time before this all. I had become so full of love for everything, and want badly to express it to everyone I see, but you can only share with others what they are open to, and no more. It is a burden even, to have so much. I needed some kind of outlet to share it all. Looking back, I think I must have offered myself to the universe in that way, and perhaps in that moment this was the eventual response. For now, I am still coming to terms with what I do next. Maybe the next step will be shown to me, or maybe it is up to me to figure it out, I am not sure. But I have even more energy now than I did before the event, and I must help it find an outlet.



You and I approach the same place from opposite ends of the pool - That's an interesting observation. Very true!

It is really hard when you have so much energy -so much to give to a world that doesn't really want it.  Or at least they don't know they want it!  It's like you want to give the world a bear hug and they say -no, just a hand shake please...

After I had the three experiences I told about above, I continued to have more experiences, say once a year or so, that were the same, only each had it's different flavor/message/purpose.  After each experience I had the high energy, loving everyone I saw, 'feeling at one with all' afterglow, for about a month afterward.  This afterglow would always eventually wear off and I'd be my old self again -always there would be a fundamental spiritual change that would stay with me though. 

I've always been interested in hearing about those people who seem to have a direct line whenever they want as opposed to people like me who seem to still be on an 'invitation only' basis.  I wonder if your technique would allow you anytime access.  By the sound of it, we won't be finding out anytime soon! lol  You are taking a break and I'm sure have good reason to. :) 

St. John of the Cross describes his experiences somewhere- I forgot where now, but he described the progression of them as at first intermittent, and then he eventually got to the point where the experience was always with him.  I'm sure not at the level we had it -no one could survive that -but it was more of slow steady burn - a flame that would never be extinguished.  Something to work toward!

Of course the point of it all, as I'm sure we all know, is to share the love with others, and I think you are doing such a great service in sharing your story.  It is a natural law, I believe, that when someone has something to give, someone else will be ready to receive it.  I hope and pray many will be benefited by reading this thread!  :) 



Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 25, 2014, 04:24:21
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I've always been interested in hearing about those people who seem to have a direct line whenever they want as opposed to people like me who seem to still be on an 'invitation only' basis.  I wonder if your technique would allow you anytime access.  By the sound of it, we won't be finding out anytime soon! lol  You are taking a break and I'm sure have good reason to. Smiley

I gather it might allow "sometimes" access, lol. Maybe once every season. It was such an intensely moving, deeply personal, and especially a draining experience that I can't see having the preparation, mental state, physical and mental stamina, and the occasion to experience it more than very infrequently. Not to mention that the results are long lasting and intense. It changes your body physically, and it changes your viewpoints. You are both sublimely satiated, and yet paradoxically filled with longing. I can't see having an experience that profound every month... I would lose it. I am just now starting to be able to interface with the world with full mental control again.

Also, it wasn't just a case of flipping a switch... it was something that happened mostly accidently, and that I gather relied on me being ready and prepared, and having the right pre-requisite life experiences to deal with.

If I can show people how to interface with creation like I did in that wonderful moment, it definitely can't be explained in 20 steps. 100 pages might do it. It would need to be a primer full of all of the ideas, mental states, and understandings a person needs to interface with it. I don't think I could explain them with anything less than stories and personal examples, and pre-requisite exercises to learn the concepts. Some of it, our society is extremely antagonistic toward, and there are even parts of it that spiritual traditions are very resistant or dismissive toward. Very few spiritual traditions embrace the body and sensuality in a healthy way; usually the goal is to transcend the body, and to thereby interface with sacred realities. I think it may be surprising to people, even in a spiritualist hotspot like this, that paradoxically engaging directly with the body and embracing it with loving acceptance (maybe even something beyond acceptance... like celebration) can lead to these same sacred encounters just as surely. People really need to understand that our bodies are an incredible gift, not this stupid matter that is stopping us from interacting with spirit. If anything, I think bodies can teach us to interact with spirit in wonderful ways that can only happen here. Most people in places like this understand the "live in the now, engage with the present moment" concept. That means loving this material world and our beautiful forms for all of their greatness while we are here.

If I am able to return there in the not-so immediate future, I must go many times in order to learn more about it. I would absolutely love to give people a guide to experiencing what we experienced, but I want assurance it is safe and manageable. I don't want to give people a wonderful thing that might also do them harm; the temptation to go far with it is very great after having been there once. As I pointed out in the thread, all of my nerves begged me to take them back. I think this temptation can overpower a person, and cause them to go too far too fast. I am not about to become a sky diving instructor while I am still on my first jump and haven't touched the ground yet.

I also want to spend time diving back into the Upanishads and other sacred traditions, and looking for examples of when this has happened, and what the results were. This is something more than a few people have experienced, clearly. There must be hundreds of examples of it that will let me get a deeper understanding.

When I learn more about it, I will fill people in! I can't not tell people after I have wound them up like this, and it feels like my responsibility to express it even. It is just that I have an infant understanding of it all at this point.

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'feeling at one with all' afterglow

Yeah, afterglow is right! It is really something else.

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St. John of the Cross describes his experiences somewhere- I forgot where now, but he described the progression of them as at first intermittent, and then he eventually got to the point where the experience was always with him.  I'm sure not at the level we had it -no one could survive that -but it was more of slow steady burn - a flame that would never be extinguished.  Something to work toward!

I could see the effects of it staying around a long time, and in that way it would always be with me. There is a lingering aftershock that hits every now and then like a gentle whisper- and it goes beyond just feeling good- it reminds me of the love I have to show other people.

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Of course the point of it all, as I'm sure we all know, is to share the love with others, and I think you are doing such a great service in sharing your story.  It is a natural law, I believe, that when someone has something to give, someone else will be ready to receive it.  I hope and pray many will be benefited by reading this thread! 

You guys are amazing, btw. It is beyond wonderful to me to come here, and not only be able to share this incredible experience, but to have incredibly supportive others around me who have been there themselves. Truly priceless!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on October 25, 2014, 09:43:17
I concur with st. John's experience. It's becoming more frequent and more intense. It's still hard coming back but not as painful.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on October 27, 2014, 01:36:55
I concur with st. John's experience. It's becoming more frequent and more intense. It's still hard coming back but not as painful.

In reading St. John's mystical writings it's obvious that what I experience is the same as what he did, however mine didn't become more frequent.  I know why too. I had an issue I never grew out of. (I was even told by Spirit to get rid of it)  I was never given more of this love energy than I was mature enough to handle and put to good use.  And so for me, that was about once a year. I don't mean to sound like you have to be perfect and somehow 'deserve' every experience.  Far from it.  Some of my most treasured memories are when it came to me when I was heartbroken and seemingly spiritually impoverished.  Fortunately now ( I'm an old lady of 43 lol!) I'm starting to get a handle on the issue that was with me for years, and I have seen an interesting evolution to my experiences just in this past year.  Now in about half of my projections, I'm giving the love energy (instead of receiving it like in my yearly experiences)  There will be a person that I'm supposed to give it too, and I can flip my 'love beam' on like a switch.  I can control it's intensity.  If I let it get too intense I'll end up back in the physical, so I have to take some care with it.  I've always wanted to be a spiritual helper, so we'll see where this goes!

Stillwater, if you research and find info. on similar experiences had by people of other cultures etc., I'd be very interested!!  :)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 27, 2014, 02:42:13
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Stillwater, if you research and find info. on similar experiences had by people of other cultures etc., I'd be very interested!!  Smiley

For sure!

So far I am seeing instances of things that sound similar in Catholocism, Daoism, Qigong, the Upanishads (granted, literally everything under the sun happens in the Upanishads to the yogis, which isn't necessarily a disqualifier though), and in a few Native American tribes, even. It really sounds like this is a universal part of the human experience, and maybe even something that was "normal" in some cultures past. I am gathering a huge pile of charts and models in these texts that describe parts of what I went through amazingly closely. I am pursuing this phenomenon through reading in all of my free hours- many things that I read in the past, but now see with fresh eyes, and much that is new to me. I will expound on these accounts when I have a free moment soon!

I think gathering more information on this is great- if I am going to explain exactly how I think this miraculous gift can be reached out to though, I want to take some time to let it digest first. So far I am coping fairly well I think, thankfully. Maybe 2 months from now I may let it happen again slowly, if all feels right. It feels like a month has passed already, but it has been much less.

It seems to me like an entirely new branch of spirituality I have never heard professed here, which is odd, because in many of these cases, it seems like the swiftest passage to interacting with the pure loving state of the greater realities, and experiencing other states of being, as many here strive to. A person's sincere desire for such union may be a factor in its occurrence. I am finding the original Buddhist Tantric sects have very similar views to this- they believe that through loving expression of the joy of the sensual world of physicality, a person can be filled with so much love and compassion that they achieve the Buddhist concept of Enlightenment. Whether you believe in enlightenment or not (I am not sure I do), it is worth noting that there is this ancient practice the focuses intensely on the body and the physical world, rather than looking at it as an encumberance, as most of the others do!



Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on October 27, 2014, 10:08:22
It would interest me too Stillwater. can you post it? You also need to examine shamanic writings as there are some accounts in there as well. In fact the healing abilities that stem from this develpment are more prevelent in cultures that still practice shamanism.  There are some accounts that involve aboriginal cultures that still practice shamanism that have described these experiences.

Soarin.  There is considerable fear that you have to go through.  The voices against the divine unity are shadows.  Heavenly Father zapped them a couple times to show me how to get rid of them. There have been times and actually is my current struggle where the energy flow scares me. It's very powerful and sometimes gets intimidating. I had to go through a struggle with this recently.  Understanding and then believing that he loves us and that this isn't going to hurt us is part of overcoming that fear. Accepting that love is key. I can see where people would mistaken these shadows for demonic attacks. In accounts of the saints you see that feature quite a bit. It's a very typical shadowform type of encounter. Once you can identify the forms then it's easier to determine which direction you need to go. It won't hurt to ask for help. The Father wants this for us his children. Its what we're meant for. And you can experience heaven while living here. ... at least as much as one can while in the physical.

 


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on October 27, 2014, 19:13:46


Soarin.  There is considerable fear that you have to go through.  The voices against the divine unity are shadows.  Heavenly Father zapped them a couple times to show me how to get rid of them. There have been times and actually is my current struggle where the energy flow scares me. It's very powerful and sometimes gets intimidating. I had to go through a struggle with this recently.  Understanding and then believing that he loves us and that this isn't going to hurt us is part of overcoming that fear. Accepting that love is key. I can see where people would mistaken these shadows for demonic attacks. In accounts of the saints you see that feature quite a bit. It's a very typical shadowform type of encounter. Once you can identify the forms then it's easier to determine which direction you need to go. It won't hurt to ask for help. The Father wants this for us his children. Its what we're meant for. And you can experience heaven while living here. ... at least as much as one can while in the physical.

 

Yes, I can see how there could be fear.  I personally haven't had fear in mine, but as I said above I believe that was due to the way I was introduced to them.  My first, although just as powerful as the others, was only seconds long (actual experience) with several minutes of afterglow.  That gave me a chance to get used to the idea without freaking! lol.  The next time I knew what was coming and the love and ecstasy  overshadowed the intensity of the flow.  I kinda feel sorry for you guys who got lambasted your first time  :-D but I guess the Source new you could handle it!   I was in my 20's when they started and I was kind of a messed up kid at the time.  God gave me exactly the love I needed without pushing me past what I could bear and scaring me.  I absolutely agree -God wants this for his children and it's what we are meant for!  :)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on October 27, 2014, 20:23:51
Man I would really read that stuff on Daoism if you write it here.
I'd even read the stuff on Buddhism!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Condiments on October 27, 2014, 23:20:57
Thank you for that fascinating and inspirational story Stillwater. I wonder if your experience relates to what I've read as "Kundalini", though I don't know much about it other than the profound effects it has on the individual experiencing it. I've only been exploring this material for a matter of two years before which I would describe myself as firmly agnostic.

My initial involuntary "spiritual experience" I had was after I had graduated college. I was out on my deck reading some Carl Jung, when I all the sudden everything came into ultra focus. It was like flipping the switch from SD to HD, and my thoughts were swept away in the warm evening summer breeze. The closest words to describe it were as if a great "presence" had merged with me. For the next two hours I experienced the most contented peace I've ever felt, a warmness coursed through my body. It was no where near as intense as the effects you described but it was enough to freak me out enough that I swore off intellectual pursuit for a few months. Nothing in my experience, being raised as a catholic, had prepared me for that. To me, those feelings were strictly within the never-land realm of monks and the deranged. I know afterward I had become intensely interested in more spiritual matters.

About six months ago the presence returned again. I was driving home from work when I started to feel strange, all fuzzy and tingly in my skull. This time there was a great deal more inner sensation. It felt as if something was pouring warm liquid into the top of my skull and it was draining through me like tendrils of energy. It bounced around my body, and most powerfully in my spine. I was similarly contented and my  feeling of self had diminished in relation to my surroundings. I remember eating a piece of bread, and having the intuition that the surrounding environment was experiencing that exquisite act of consumption through me. Do you guys have any idea of what that was?

It was shortly thereafter that I discovered this place and followed in my oobe pursuits. I understand why you don't want to post much of the information as to how you got to where you are. I look back at my past and see how all these little steps lead to where I am now. Taking shortcuts would mean to lack the context of understanding. My only issue is....I kind of feel stuck. I've only been partially successfully in my oobe and lucid dream pursuits in the past 5 months(got really close to exit, and had a lucid dream for like a second haha), but I often feel like I go in circles. There is just so much information regarding spirituality that its hard to know how to proceed. The people and friends around me aren't really interested or have no reference point with what I'm pursuing. It starts to feel somewhat lonely...

Is there any advice you can give me to point me in the right direction?


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 28, 2014, 01:01:50
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Man I would really read that stuff on Daoism if you write it here.
I'd even read the stuff on Buddhism!

When I get the chance around work and research (and still feeling a bit strange), I will definitely try to do these instances justice.

For now Kzaal... with respect to the Daoist perspective on it, look into the concept of the "Microcosmic Orbit"; this happened to be the route a lot of the sensations took before they branched off- a circuit up the back and down the torso on a centerline loop; and the posture she is taking was pretty accurate for the effect on the spinal posture it had in my case too (although laying down of course). There is a whole branch of Daoist literature I am seeing that is concerned with converting "Jing" (sexual force) sourced as "Yin" (female creative essence) into spinal "Qi" (spiritual essence); the normal pattern for both women and men in Daoism is Jing expulsion; the Daoists believe that this other process is the root of powerful transformative forces in an individual, and I have run into experiences being described that sound very much like those being discussed in this thread in that context.

(https://www.anonimg.com/img/df0de33a0aa4192cc06b4016bbc4fe24.gif)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 28, 2014, 02:16:11
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I understand why you don't want to post much of the information as to how you got to where you are. I look back at my past and see how all these little steps lead to where I am now. Taking shortcuts would mean to lack the context of understanding.

Yeah, I think you get it. An actual theoretical process for engaging this experience from zero doesn't exist probably. Rushing to the method itself would probably have almost no effect at all for a person who wasn't already ready; those at risk would probably be those who could get there, but who might have difficulty detaching themselves from the joy of it all.

For me at least, it likely had heavily to do with life experiences, attitudes, bodily health, a storing of several kinds of tensions that were released all at once, and a powerful love for the physical world, its inhabitants, and the underlying sensuality of our existence here. I don't expect you can get there in a day. But you might be able to get there in 3 months, and I think this is an easier path potentially to subtle realities than the projection path that is mostly followed here.

There is definitely that Jungian "Metanoia" trait to this all.


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Is there any advice you can give me to point me in the right direction?


Advice I could give for getting into that primed state... would sound off the wall probably.

You would be asking yourself... is this a New Age manifesto?

When I read a lot of literature about chakras, etc... (leaving my views on what these may or may not be asside), it is clear to me that I didn't fully get most of it until now, despite having felt many "chakra sensations" in the past. This is sort of the attitude you would have to look at this stuff with... you won't get it until you are already there. That sounds like a cop-out, but so much of this happens by accident...


Ok here it goes:

-Listen to music, and don't listen to the singer, but imagine you are the singer. Feel the person's emotions, feel the joy and the suffering behind what they sing, and feel it in your body as powerful waves. You must do this with no distractions at all, with meditative focus. You and they are the same, and you are sharing their life experiences that they are expressing. I don't mean this figuratively, I mean it literally. That might be hard to do, but it will help get you to this place relatively fast. The point is empathy, and empathy is both developed and experienced by having yourself experience what the other person or creature is feeling in the most direct way possible. By an accident of biology, humans are designed to experience empathy through voices (and consequently musical intervals) most easily. If you question it... consider, what is more emotional, a text chat or a phone conversation?

-When you walk outside, you must stop your thoughts completely almost. There are trees, and wind, and clouds, and sky. They are magnificent things, and they envelop you and intoxicate you with their primal physicality if you invite them in.

-Change your relationship with your sexuality. Most people feel sexuality toward human adults, and sexual mental images, and this is very healthy and not at all detrimental. But there is a new way to experience this sexual energy... try experiencing it instead as bodily sensuality. Let this energy that is normally only felt for objects of sexual desire instead be transduced into feelings of joy at being immersed in the natural world, and a joy that you feel in your nerves and skin. If you can learn to experience the joy of seeing trees and clouds as a bodily excitement, this is another major step.

-Another extension of this is the transduction of sexual energy into love and compassion. Just as you can direct it into sensual joy for the physical world, that overflowing kind of energy can be re-directed into a kind of warmth you feel for others, and you badly want what is best for all other people and creatures at all times.

-Another strange way of building this vital force is athletic pursuit. For me, I think a kind of physical vitality and liveliness I developed as a result of running everyday for an hour. Remember I am a person who is highly sensual, so you can imagine how much energy and tension is built up in such a situation.

-Meditative pursuits- if you haven't already gotten there, learn the feeling of staying in trance for 2-3 hours, and being contented there. The above will help with this, and this will especially help with the above, conversely. Feel the joy of breathing in, and the joy of tension leaving your body as you exhale. This state is so relaxing and rewarding to experience on its own, you can comfortably spend hours in it, and it feels like time well-spent if you do it "correctly".

-Set your sights to the apex. You love yourself for what you are, but you constantly strive to become better, for the love of both yourself, and for those around you you can better love and serve. You do not accept failure or set-back- you defy them, and keep climbing. You know that every being has worth and value, and as such a being, you have an unquenchable longing to know the infinite and the creator, whatever that turns out to be for you, in your world view. You are a Christian? Then you can easily know this as Christ/ Father/Holy Spirit. Contemporary Spiritualist? Source. Hindu? Krishna / Brahman-Atman. Modern Secular-Humanist? The loving spirit of ethics and the grandeur of physical creation. It doesn't matter what you ascribe to, pretty much each worldview has a name for it, and you don't need to be a religious person to experience it, or to develop a deeper relationship with it.


------------

I am comfortable sharing this much, and if you take that stuff to heart, you might find your way to where I wandered by sheer accident. Also, some of it might seem like quackery, or some breed of queer mysticism. I am not sure if I saw such a list of things as a child, if I would have given it much value other than some sort of zealous fanaticism. And yet I feel there is great transformative power in all of this if you are open to it. In the future I will expound on principles like these and others, and explain more closely how they fit into the whole; and I will also describe the physical exercises that may be relevant, if I am convinced it is the best way to serve people on this path; probably all as some sort of free ebook, but that is for well into the future.

I hope that helps!!!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Condiments on October 30, 2014, 02:50:14
Advice I could give for getting into that primed state... would sound off the wall probably.

You would be asking yourself... is this a New Age manifesto?

When I read a lot of literature about chakras, etc... (leaving my views on what these may or may not be asside), it is clear to me that I didn't fully get most of it until now, despite having felt many "chakra sensations" in the past. This is sort of the attitude you would have to look at this stuff with... you won't get it until you are already there. That sounds like a cop-out, but so much of this happens by accident...

Nothing about this sounds to "New Age-ish" to me, though that may be because I'm now one within the fold without realizing it. Its like you said though, so much of this experience sounds like "fluff" until you actually experience it. I myself am experiencing what is typically associated with "chakras", and I didn't know a wit about them before I started experiencing symptoms. My first few meditation sessions and I had wonderful sensations spread across my brow and the crown of my skull. I thought it was just awesome side-effects of the practice until I started to feel more all across my body. Even now as I'm typing this I feel my legs buzzing/humming, a tense tingling in my brow, and a fuzziness across my hands. Despite all this development, I can't say I know much. The path of "enlightenment" as some like call it, feels less like a confident stride and more a bumbling through the dark with my pants on my head. Am I getting somewhere? It feels like it, but I don't know.

Quote
Ok here it goes:

-Listen to music, and don't listen to the singer, but imagine you are the singer. Feel the person's emotions, feel the joy and the suffering behind what they sing, and feel it in your body as powerful waves. You must do this with no distractions at all, with meditative focus. You and they are the same, and you are sharing their life experiences that they are expressing. I don't mean this figuratively, I mean it literally. That might be hard to do, but it will help get you to this place relatively fast. The point is empathy, and empathy is both developed and experienced by having yourself experience what the other person or creature is feeling in the most direct way possible. By an accident of biology, humans are designed to experience empathy through voices (and consequently musical intervals) most easily. If you question it... consider, what is more emotional, a text chat or a phone conversation?

This is a very good point. This is a very good meditation to try for empathy given the emotional power of music. I have been feeling shifting energy movements throughout my body lately whenever I've been listening to tender music, and it drives to me tears often and easily. This didn't use to happen so often. I feel like emotional reserves are pouring out after being stone-walled by me for so long. This would be a good way to channel this energy in a positive way.

Quote
-When you walk outside, you must stop your thoughts completely almost. There are trees, and wind, and clouds, and sky. They are magnificent things, and they envelop you and intoxicate you with their primal physicality if you invite them in.

I've been working on this and I'm having some trouble with the "stop all thoughts part". I often get into the these trances on walks, but its often broken by some barreling thought train. But man...when you do hit that sweet spot. Its likes seeing the world through a child's eyes for the first time. Its breath-taking...you wonder how you've never seen it that way before?

Quote
-Change your relationship with your sexuality. Most people feel sexuality toward human adults, and sexual mental images, and this is very healthy and not at all detrimental. But there is a new way to experience this sexual energy... try experiencing it instead as bodily sensuality. Let this energy that is normally only felt for objects of sexual desire instead be transduced into feelings of joy at being immersed in the natural world, and a joy that you feel in your nerves and skin. If you can learn to experience the joy of seeing trees and clouds as a bodily excitement, this is another major step.

-Another extension of this is the transduction of sexual energy into love and compassion. Just as you can direct it into sensual joy for the physical world, that overflowing kind of energy can be re-directed into a kind of warmth you feel for others, and you badly want what is best for all other people and creatures at all times.

This is another good point. One great thing I've read about human sexuality, is how easily we externalize our deep desires onto a object. We often describe those attractive as "hot", as if they were a living fire warming us by their very presence. What we fail to realize is that all that person has done is awoken an image deep within, their "hotness" a mere catalyst that stokes the pyre within. The faces and personalities may change, but its always the same heat that moves within ourselves. Realizing this frees others from the image we tend to impress upon them, and allows us to enjoy them for who they are. And it seems like you've gone a step further and applied this energy towards the moving world itself. That is quite beautiful, and I could see how it would be progenitor of your experience.

Quote
-Another strange way of building this vital force is athletic pursuit. For me, I think a kind of physical vitality and liveliness I developed as a result of running everyday for an hour. Remember I am a person who is highly sensual, so you can imagine how much energy and tension is built up in such a situation.

-Meditative pursuits- if you haven't already gotten there, learn the feeling of staying in trance for 2-3 hours, and being contented there. The above will help with this, and this will especially help with the above, conversely. Feel the joy of breathing in, and the joy of tension leaving your body as you exhale. This state is so relaxing and rewarding to experience on its own, you can comfortably spend hours in it, and it feels like time well-spent if you do it "correctly".

This is something I'm definitely working on. I'm at a healthy weight but I'm pretty lazy when it comes to working out. As for meditation, I'm working myself to a consistent 15-20 minutes a day. I'm no where NEAR 2-3 hours of trance but that sounds simply joyful. Attention is such a fickle beast.

Quote
-Set your sights to the apex. You love yourself for what you are, but you constantly strive to become better, for the love of both yourself, and for those around you you can better love and serve. You do not accept failure or set-back- you defy them, and keep climbing. You know that every being has worth and value, and as such a being, you have an unquenchable longing to know the infinite and the creator, whatever that turns out to be for you, in your world view. You are a Christian? Then you can easily know this as Christ/ Father/Holy Spirit. Contemporary Spiritualist? Source. Hindu? Krishna / Brahman-Atman. Modern Secular-Humanist? The loving spirit of ethics and the grandeur of physical creation. It doesn't matter what you ascribe to, pretty much each worldview has a name for it, and you don't need to be a religious person to experience it, or to develop a deeper relationship with it.

For a long time I suffered from pretty low confidence, and was in denial about it. I tried to maintain an "image" of me being a smoother more socially adept person then I really was, which gave my critical mind a field day when I failed to measure up. It didn't help my group of high school friends were a bunch of jerks, but most are at that age. Learning to accept myself after all that as been a difficult journey despite many loving friends over the years. Its not their fault, outwardly I project the image of calm stillness, but my innate sensitivity to things allows me to be easily emotionally entangled. Its sometimes hard for me to even watch characters in movies in embarrassing situations because how much emphasize with them. Funny how I never made that same room for myself haha.

I've come a long way though and at least for now feel like it'll keep improving. Thank for the help and time. I'm glad you've found some measure of great peace in this world.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 30, 2014, 04:14:36
Quote
Despite all this development, I can't say I know much. The path of "enlightenment" as some like call it, feels less like a confident stride and more a bumbling through the dark with my pants on my head. Am I getting somewhere? It feels like it, but I don't know.

I know the feeling. I have come so far, but there is so much in front of me. I want to help others, but I don't know that I actually know enough not to mislead them. I am certainly no authority.


Quote
I've been working on this and I'm having some trouble with the "stop all thoughts part". I often get into the these trances on walks, but its often broken by some barreling thought train. But man...when you do hit that sweet spot. Its likes seeing the world through a child's eyes for the first time. Its breath-taking...you wonder how you've never seen it that way before?

For me, it comes very easily. It is less something I have to try (so the "stop thoughs completely, almost" might be a bit confusing), and more something that just happens. If you play a musical instrument, I am sure you will get the next bit: the only instrument I ever learned to play somewhat well was the piano. And part of playing well is to play without effort. It is about doing something until it becomes unconscious memory, and your body just knows what to do with minimal input from your conscious mind. It just sort of falls out of your fingers because they know what to do. I think that state of mind is about being there so often, and for such a large part of your day, that it becomes a default state.


Quote
As for meditation, I'm working myself to a consistent 15-20 minutes a day. I'm no where NEAR 2-3 hours of trance but that sounds simply joyful. Attention is such a fickle beast.

Oh, it doesn't have to be 2-3 hours a day, or even 2-3 hours a week. Eventually, the meditative state is something that spills over into your life, and you find less need to actually sit down for it. The concept here though is that when you can get to the point where 3 hours of sitting (or lying down) is exhilerating rather than boring, you are probably already there.

Quote
For a long time I suffered from pretty low confidence, and was in denial about it. I tried to maintain an "image" of me being a smoother more socially adept person then I really was, which gave my critical mind a field day when I failed to measure up.

It might please you to note then that I am as socially awkward as they come. Being socially accepted is a matter of understanding certain social conventions, and then learning to respect the social conventions of the group you would like to be accepted into. I guess I would say that I don't have so much concern for how I am perceived- to me how I feel is more important than how I am seen (and that is nice, because it allows a person to be fairly uninhibited); to any observer, I am probably fairly bizzare in my mannerisms! A funny walk... maintains eye-contact way too long...hangs out with homeless people(they are some of the only people who will connect with a stranger on a profoundly personal level)...I guess I must look like a hipster on anti-depressants, lol. You have to learn not to try to impress others by knowing the right secret handshakes. You might be surprised how much the outward traits of being dis-interested in all of that will still be noticed, and how many people will still connect well with you. Very few people are their true self in public. They don't want to make a scene, and they want to be accepted by those around them. When you actually are (your actual, un-modified self)... some people will be disgusted, and some people will connect to it instantly. And impressing the sort of people who demand a rigid set of pre-determined qualities in the people they interact with isn't worth your time or your worry.

I think you get it though. Not loving yourself will only hold you back, because you will feel unworthy. It isn't about narcissism, it is about being comfortable with yourself.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdxrstnZo4E

"The Mole is an animal that digs tunnels underground. In search of the sun, it sometimes comes to the surface. When it sees the Sun, it is blinded."

 :lol: :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Newoldsoul on October 30, 2014, 05:41:49
What a cantastic beautiful experience and thank you for sharing it with us!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on October 30, 2014, 07:19:05
The mindset of ' what's in it for me' is the completely opposite direction.
If you look at all things in the correct mindset you'll see more with your mind than the eye's can ever show.
It does sound new agey but imagine a world full of this mindset.
As I have mentioned a few times, a wasp will do what a wasp does.
Most see them and instantly go for the kill.
If you watch them chew at rotting wood to make a nest you are on the right path.

The typical physical world mindset still sees the world as flat.
I'm sure those who have had the experience in the OP will agree.
The eternal flame lights the dark and doesn't create shadows. That'll mean something to those that know.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on October 30, 2014, 08:35:59
Quote
As I have mentioned a few times, a wasp will do what a wasp does.
Most see them and instantly go for the kill.
If you watch them chew at rotting wood to make a nest you are on the right path.


Reminds me of the opening chapter of "Their Eyes Were Watching God":

Janie was stretched on her back beneath the pear tree soaking in the alto chant of the visiting bees, the gold of the sun and the panting breath of the breeze when the inaudible voice of it all came to her. She saw a dust-bearing bee sink into the sanctum of a bloom; the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace and the ecstatic shiver of the tree from root to tiniest branch creaming in every blossom and frothing with delight. So this was a marriage! She had been summoned to behold a revelation. Then Janie felt a pain remorseless sweet that left her limp and languid.

Insects are amazing for sure. One nice thing about being a kid is that your face is a lot closer to the ground, and these dramas play out for you so much more easily.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Aaron330 on November 14, 2014, 04:32:27
Man, I think this thread just changed my life.

As I've said before I came out of a very strong evangelical Christian background, son of a Pastor, lived most of my life in church services, became a worship leader at age 16 and went to college and got my degree in Worship Arts to do it full time. I've always had such a desire to know God and to be One with him(it). I frequently spent hours in my room worshiping this God who was just too big for words, too marvelous to comprehend. It was almost a daily occurrence for me to cry while driving in the car to some worship song that came on. I was so in Love with the Creator that my whole life revolved around it. I even had quite a powerful healing gift that I would even use when out on the streets to heal people that were ill. We called it "words of knowledge" in the Christian realm, when you get an impression someone has low back pain or cancer or whatever. I've seen hundreds, maybe thousands of real, genuine physical healing. I've been instantly healed myself of a torn rotator cuff. I always knew God was real and felt a burning desire every day of my life to become even closer with God.

I eventually stopped believing in hell, much to the worry of my family. Then eventually stopped believing in the idea that Jesus "died for my sins" because the God I knew was not a barbarian who required a blood sacrifice to forgive people. Then I eventually lost my spirituality altogether, as coming to the realization that everything I'd ever believed as Christian was wrong. The Bible stories, the stories of Jesus, belief about heaven, etc all wrong. I embraced science and evolution fully, which is often very hostile to all religion/spirituality, which made me slowly become cynical towards my old beliefs.

The baby went out with the bath water and i lost my spirituality altogether. I lost all the beauty, passion, and wonder of the Divine. It hurt so much to lose everything that was so central to my being from the time I was born. I became a closet atheist for months, and went into a deep depression over losing my faith. I then became more of a New-Ager who essentially believed that God is just the sum of all consciousness. But My love for God still burns deep within, waiting to be reawakened. I've just needed to know that God is real and personal in some sense, and I've gotten that image very strongly in the past 8 months on this forum board. However, God is something I want to Experience for myself.

Reading the experiences on this thread, and the beautiful descriptions of everyone's experience with the Divine have filled my heart with that Love and Wonder again. I sat here with tears in my eyes, reading every word of these comments. I too had a deep love for the Christian mystics of the dark ages, and have read many of their books: St. Teresa of Avila's "Interior Castle", St. John of the Cross' "Long dark night of the soul", Michael Molinos' "The Spiritual Guide", Jeanne Guyon's "Experiencing the Depth's of Jesus Christ" and many more.

Thank you to all who've shared on this thread. I am glad this thread has been stickied. People need to read about these experiences. I want this experience for myself so badly. I've been doing an hour of Kundalini Awakening/Chakra meditation 3-5 nights a week for a month now. Thanks to this thread, something deeply important and eternally valuable has been re-awakened in me.

Since Soarin posted some lyrics, I'll do the same. I played this song after reading this thread, and spent about 30 minutes overwhelmed by tears of joy and love. Used to be my favorite to sing and play with my guitar :)

"It's always like Spring time with You, making all things New
Your Light is breaking through the dark
This Love it is sweeter than wine, bringing joy, bringing life
Your hope is Rising like the Dawn

This is what you do
This is what you do
You make me come alive"


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: soarin12 on November 14, 2014, 06:04:14
Man, I think this thread just changed my life.

As I've said before I came out of a very strong evangelical Christian background, son of a Pastor, lived most of my life in church services, became a worship leader at age 16 and went to college and got my degree in Worship Arts to do it full time. I've always had such a desire to know God and to be One with him(it). I frequently spent hours in my room worshiping this God who was just too big for words, too marvelous to comprehend. It was almost a daily occurrence for me to cry while driving in the car to some worship song that came on. I was so in Love with the Creator that my whole life revolved around it. I even had quite a powerful healing gift that I would even use when out on the streets to heal people that were ill. We called it "words of knowledge" in the Christian realm, when you get an impression someone has low back pain or cancer or whatever. I've seen hundreds, maybe thousands of real, genuine physical healing. I've been instantly healed myself of a torn rotator cuff. I always knew God was real and felt a burning desire every day of my life to become even closer with God.

I eventually stopped believing in hell, much to the worry of my family. Then eventually stopped believing in the idea that Jesus "died for my sins" because the God I knew was not a barbarian who required a blood sacrifice to forgive people. Then I eventually lost my spirituality altogether, as coming to the realization that everything I'd ever believed as Christian was wrong. The Bible stories, the stories of Jesus, belief about heaven, etc all wrong. I embraced science and evolution fully, which is often very hostile to all religion/spirituality, which made me slowly become cynical towards my old beliefs.

The baby went out with the bath water and i lost my spirituality altogether. I lost all the beauty, passion, and wonder of the Divine. It hurt so much to lose everything that was so central to my being from the time I was born. I became a closet atheist for months, and went into a deep depression over losing my faith. I then became more of a New-Ager who essentially believed that God is just the sum of all consciousness. But My love for God still burns deep within, waiting to be reawakened. I've just needed to know that God is real and personal in some sense, and I've gotten that image very strongly in the past 8 months on this forum board. However, God is something I want to Experience for myself.

Reading the experiences on this thread, and the beautiful descriptions of everyone's experience with the Divine have filled my heart with that Love and Wonder again. I sat here with tears in my eyes, reading every word of these comments. I too had a deep love for the Christian mystics of the dark ages, and have read many of their books: St. Teresa of Avila's "Interior Castle", St. John of the Cross' "Long dark night of the soul", Michael Molinos' "The Spiritual Guide", Jeanne Guyon's "Experiencing the Depth's of Jesus Christ" and many more.

Thank you to all who've shared on this thread. I am glad this thread has been stickied. People need to read about these experiences. I want this experience for myself so badly. I've been doing an hour of Kundalini Awakening/Chakra meditation 3-5 nights a week for a month now. Thanks to this thread, something deeply important and eternally valuable has been re-awakened in me.

Since Soarin posted some lyrics, I'll do the same. I played this song after reading this thread, and spent about 30 minutes overwhelmed by tears of joy and love. Used to be my favorite to sing and play with my guitar :)

"It's always like Spring time with You, making all things New
Your Light is breaking through the dark
This Love it is sweeter than wine, bringing joy, bringing life
Your hope is Rising like the Dawn

This is what you do
This is what you do
You make me come alive"


That's a beautiful story and song, Aaron.  You're a very good writer and with your healing gift and passion for the Divine, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up a spiritual teacher/healer.  Maybe not one that your dad would approve of, but oh well... :)  Maybe your family will come around!  

Those must have been hard spiritual changes to go through.  I think anyone who is truly driven by the love of God will end up going through that purging of man made dogma.  I know I did.  The world pulls us this way and that, and then we finally (hopefully) learn to just follow what resonates with us in the core of our being.  This all reminds me of another saint.  Thomas Aquinas - who spent years writing 'important' theological documents, and then one day had a mystical experience that he wouldn't write down or talk about.  Afterwards, when his companions urged him to go back to his writings, he said - I just can't.  They seem like straw to me now...  I know how he felt!  :)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Szaxx on November 14, 2014, 11:28:59
Use these emotions to heal the world in meditation.
Expect nothing, just think of the benefits.
If you're on the path and you've enough experience, the result may well take you to the bliss. You have to return, that's the only part you'll not want.
 :-D


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Aaron330 on November 14, 2014, 14:10:38
That's a beautiful story and song, Aaron.  You're a very good writer and with your healing gift and passion for the Divine, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up a spiritual teacher/healer.  Maybe not one that your dad would approve of, but oh well... :)  Maybe your family will come around! 

Those must have been hard spiritual changes to go through.  I think anyone who is truly driven by the love of God will end up going through that purging of man made dogma.  I know I did.  The world pulls us this way and that, and then we finally (hopefully) learn to just follow what resonates with us in the core of our being.  This all reminds me of another saint.  Thomas Aquinas - who spent years writing 'important' theological documents, and then one day had a mystical experience that he wouldn't write down or talk about.  Afterwards, when his companions urged him to go back to his writings, he said - I just can't.  They seem like straw to me now...  I know how he felt!  :)

Thank you for the kind words Soarin. I think I very well may find myself on that path at some point in my life, only because I have such a desire to share the same joy and understanding of God that has so radically changed my life with others. But at this point I do feel a lot like Thomas Aquinas. I will be going home to California for Christmas to visit  my family, and they will want to know (as always) what "God has been doing in my life". I won't have any idea of how to communicate any of this to them, and I probably won't for many years. So I'll probably just give them a pat answer :)

Use these emotions to heal the world in meditation.
Expect nothing, just think of the benefits.
If you're on the path and you've enough experience, the result may well take you to the bliss. You have to return, that's the only part you'll not want.
 :-D

Great advice as always Szaxx, thanks. I hope to find myself in that place of not wanting to return someday soon :)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on November 14, 2014, 14:31:31
Yes, it was amazing to me too to learn that we have mechanisms for directly interfacing with the greater reality in the form we now are, and in a very immediate and powerful way. And afterward, you feel powerful yourself. There was so much vitality added, and there is still is. It just sort of flows up your back.

I would like others to experience it. It really adds to your life considerably.

I am curious about what you mean when you say Kundalini exercises. I have heard people say this in many contexts, to mean many things. What sort of exercises are you pursuing, if you don't mind me asking?

If it is how I think it is, I don't think it is like something you build up, and one day you are "good enough" that it happens. I think it is sort of like exit techniques in projection... you don't spend your time doing them all day long... you wait for the moment that your are primed for it, and you can do it effortlessly. It is like a combination of state of mind and physiological states...


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stookie_ on November 14, 2014, 16:35:43
I'm a bit late, but that was as amazing experience to read about Stillwater. It's nice to see something a bit more spiritual and "mystical", and seeing an actual example of spiritual growth. It's something I can relate to. :)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on November 14, 2014, 17:38:08
Oh hey, a Stookie  :lol:

what have you been up to of late?


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on December 06, 2014, 13:49:51
In the past month, I've had multitudes of this manifestation and every time, it always surprise me more than the last time.
I've noticed that to me it happens more often in the middle of my back, but I've had the sensation that it was cyclic.
From the middle of my back, it raised up to my crown chakra and eventually came back around and in my bellybutton and then my coccyx. Then went back to the middle of my back.
It never happened that it was all at the same time and I think that's what differentiate from other manifestations.
It's still a strange sensation to me but is very ecstatic. It's almost always a different location, except my back which seems to be more often.
I think it happened like 10-12 times in the last month, but the touch seem to be less strong than at the beginning which felt 10 times more powerful sometimes.
I haven't been doing as much AP lately except Lucid Dreams which might be the reason, also the fact that I'm facing the blank right now and can't find anything else as to what I should learn while projecting might be the reason why theses manifestations are weaker.
I'm really struggling to find something to do with my life which might also be a reason why my AP is blocked.
I wish I could help people all around me but that doesn't pay the bills and I'm worried that my prosperity is not gonna be what I thought it would.

I'm at that weird stage where my spirit is telling me it's time to go (because I've seen too many signs), the AP keeps pulling me in, my dreams feels as if I've already seen all of them (lived them in all my past lives). As someone who's been through a lot of stuff, I've made a promise to never talk about leaving this earth until I live my life completely (dying of old age). Yet I don't know how to get there because I'm missing resources to get to 80 years+. (money, permanent job, house, etc.)
I wish I could live as a Sage. Meditating everyday, clearing my mind, healing those headaches that are constantly there.
Or I wish I could be enlightened to the state where my physical body vanishes and I end up in the Astral Planes and the Celestial realm.
I'm there, telling myself it doesn't matter if I reincarnate again in the same life because I've went that far and never thought I would end up so far. Yet I would wish for something totally new where I wouldn't lose my memory of this life and my knowledge/wisdom. (Enlightenment)
This is bugging me.

What happens when you are at that stage where you no longer fear reincarnation into the same life?
I'm still struggling to find an answer, is it like everything else, that when you don't mind about something it ends up not happening?
Am I to eventually get out of the cycle of reincarnation (like the Buddha said he did)?
I wouldn't even mind being reincarnated as "teacher of the tao" or as they call it the Xian immortal, who don't need food or water but lives on earth in order to help the people around finding their way.
A long time ago my dream was to go in a buddhist temple and stay there as a monk till the end of my life... But I've got the feeling I already did that in one of my past life. It felt as if it wouldn't help me anymore.

Can anyone help me making things clear out of this?
If you don't want to say it here you can just PM me what you think of all this.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on December 06, 2014, 14:04:20
kzal your going to pop.  I feel like this before something happens that's major.  Don't get scared if it does. Nothing there can hurt you.  Best thing to do is keep doing what your doing and relax focus on getting deeper and it will break through and you'll feel better.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on December 06, 2014, 14:29:17
kzal your going to pop.  I feel like this before something happens that's major.  Don't get scared if it does. Nothing there can hurt you.  Best thing to do is keep doing what your doing and relax focus on getting deeper and it will break through and you'll feel better.

Hahahaha lol yeah I know I'm going to pop hahahaha, I've been telling me that for the past 2 months LOL. It's like where the hell am I going rofl. Ahhh to bad yeah I guess you're right I just have to wait lol :roll:


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on December 07, 2014, 01:43:37
When it hits it's like a dam cuts loose.  Either that or your just stressed out. Maybe both. It's like a kid goes through a growth spurt. They get cranky before it happens


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on December 07, 2014, 13:07:19
Well I guess I pop'ed in some kind of way, I just bought 5 books on the tao, I Ching and Daodejing and reincarnation, so I guess I'm gonna have a lot of reading to do but it's amazing so far!
Sometime you just gotta do something that is out of your comfort zone (for me I never liked reading any books).
That probably will give me a taste in reading and I may enjoy it far more than what I've expected.
And it may answer a couple of questions I still had on my mind!


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on December 07, 2014, 14:30:49
Well what I experience when that happens is irritation then giving in then a massive energy surge that lasts for a couple days. It's accompanyed by new changes.. in vision projection other things too. It's like a spiritual growth spurt. I get cranky when it starts building up.... poor hubby.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on December 07, 2014, 23:20:02
The I Ching is simply a tool for Chinese prophecy.

Also, why five books on Tao?

Read the first 2 sentences of the first one!

"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name"

Just messing with you though, that sounds like fun. Read the Zhuangzi if you haven't already, it is the best of the lot by a long shot if you ask me. The Zhuangzi is like written music to me.

I can relate to the period of tension. Eventually something happens everytime.



Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Kzaal on December 08, 2014, 00:07:51
The I Ching is simply a tool for Chinese prophecy.

Also, why five books on Tao?

Read the first 2 sentences of the first one!

"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name"

Just messing with you though, that sounds like fun. Read the Zhuangzi if you haven't already, it is the best of the lot by a long shot if you ask me. The Zhuangzi is like written music to me.

I can relate to the period of tension. Eventually something happens everytime.



Well most of the books I bought are just like, meditation with the tao, and to be honest I didn't even know what the I Ching was, in the beginning I thought it was like the Tao but another way to see it, instead I found myself with a prophecy book and teachings on how to use the yin and yang to predict stuff hahaha. Also a book on Reincarnation and Immortality. I Ching so far looks really interesting tho.

Edit: And those books were pretty cheap, like the I Ching was $12 for a brick of 360 pages. So I just grabbed it XD.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on December 08, 2014, 00:48:10
Yeah... What the I Ching is... you count patterns of Yarrow sticks, and there are something like 64 possible outcomes. You then interpret what that outcome means in your situation.

What it amounts to is a way for a Chinese mystic 2000 years ago to ask their ancestors for advice. It is a marked improvement over the previous way, which required the mystic to take a hot poker to the shoulder blade of an ox, and read the way the bone cracked.

(http://www.helladelicious.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/yarrowstalk-step2.jpg)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Selski on August 21, 2017, 14:24:00
Such a beautiful opening post - and thread. I read the whole thing yesterday morning and it really lifted my spirit.

Thank you to all who contributed.  :-)


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Stillwater on August 21, 2017, 23:36:28
Thanks a lot!

Pretty powerful happening, to be sure.

I have learned a lot about it over the couple years after, and I mean to get around to writing about it at some length pretty soon.

It is sort of a difficult topic, partially because... I think a lot could be written that does seekers more harm than good if misunderstood. I don't want to put anything out there that will cause anyone any trouble.


Title: Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation
Post by: Selski on August 25, 2017, 09:01:21
Quote from: Stillwater
I have learned a lot about it over the couple years after, and I mean to get around to writing about it at some length pretty soon.

I'd love to read that when you get time/inclination/inspiration!  :-D

I can understand your reluctance in revealing the actual process (and that's not what I'm personally interested in), but would love to read what you have learned. I shall keep an eye on this thread in the coming weeks/months.  8-)