The Astral Pulse

Astral Chat => Welcome to Astral Chat! => Topic started by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 27, 2015, 19:50:25



Title: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 27, 2015, 19:50:25
Here and there I've thought about doing magick you know spells. I think it's a pretty cool idea. But I am skeptical as to how effective it really is. Anyone have experience with it or insight into spells? I know Xanth will say something like "it's all all in your intent." LOL Which I am wouldn't deny. Any thoughts?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 27, 2015, 20:10:05
I know Xanth will say something like "it's all all in your intent." LOL Which I am wouldn't deny. Any thoughts?
Damn, I can just go away now.  It's great!  :D  ;)

But yeah... that is what I'd say, for the most part.
It's all using your Intent to modify the probability of your desired outcome to happen.
Most people do this on a daily basis without even realizing it, or knowing what they're doing.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Stillwater on February 27, 2015, 20:38:04
I am in agreement with Xanth here. I think magic stuff is intent-based also.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 27, 2015, 21:44:06
Can any of you attest to the power of strong intent to do something psychically and not in the astral? Of getting money or a girl friend or anything within reach for that matter?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 27, 2015, 22:00:31
Can any of you attest to the power of strong intent to do something psychically and not in the astral?
First, this physical reality is nothing but one of an infinite number of (for lack of a better word) "astral" realities.  You're ALWAYS in an "astral" reality.  :)

Quote
Of getting money or a girl friend or anything within reach for that matter?
What do you think the "Law of Attraction" is?  :)

The Law of Attraction is using your Intent to affect change in your reality (aka: Magick).

It works.  It definitely works.  Lots of people do it.  Most people don't realize they're doing it.  In fact, you do it on a, probably, hourly basis... this is the point of "Intent".

NOW... with that said.  What you need to concern yourself with is the Intent behind WHY you're doing this.  If you're of a high quality of consciousness, then this question doesn't really need to be asked, as you're going to operate from mostly Love-based choices to begin with.  For example, wanting "money" is all good and well... until you look at the Intent behind WHY you want it.  Do you want the money to help make your life easier?  Or do you want the money to help a loved one, say, get life saving surgery?  Do you understand how the "Intent" behind those two actions differ completely?

Or the other example you used... to get a girlfriend.  This one is tricky, because it depends on how you place the Intent.  Are you trying to manipulate some poor girl into falling in Love with you?  Or are you simply putting out the Intent for you to "stumble" upon someone whom you are compatible enough with in order to pursue a POTENTIAL relationship?  Do you see the difference between those two Intents?

Are you beginning to get an understanding of how the Intent behind the actions you make DEFINE those actions more than the actions themselves?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 27, 2015, 22:21:23
First, this physical reality is nothing but one of an infinite number of (for lack of a better word) "astral" realities.  You're ALWAYS in an "astral" reality.  :)
What do you think the "Law of Attraction" is?  :)
Of course that is one the first things I learned when I started really seeking spiritually.

The Law of Attraction is using your Intent to affect change in your reality (aka: Magick).

It works.  It definitely works.  Lots of people do it.  Most people don't realize they're doing it.  In fact, you do it on a, probably, hourly basis... this is the point of "Intent".

NOW... with that said.  What you need to concern yourself with is the Intent behind WHY you're doing this.  If you're of a high quality of consciousness, then this question doesn't really need to be asked, as you're going to operate from mostly Love-based choices to begin with.  For example, wanting "money" is all good and well... until you look at the Intent behind WHY you want it.  Do you want the money to help make your life easier?  Or do you want the money to help a loved one, say, get life saving surgery?  Do you understand how the "Intent" behind those two actions differ completely?

Or the other example you used... to get a girlfriend.  This one is tricky, because it depends on how you place the Intent.  Are you trying to manipulate some poor girl into falling in Love with you?  Or are you simply putting out the Intent for you to "stumble" upon someone whom you are compatible enough with in order to pursue a POTENTIAL relationship?  Do you see the difference between those two Intents?

Are you beginning to get an understanding of how the Intent behind the actions you make DEFINE those actions more than the actions themselves?
Given all that information I think I can make some really good spells. I would do it by writing down on a piece of paper what I want, then all the whys of why I want it for the greater good. Then rehearse it over and over and over again. Saying each word with meaning. And then once it's deeply embedded into my consciousness I can burn the paper and say a prayer. Then let it go into the hands of the universe. IDK I just made that up. What do you think?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 27, 2015, 23:09:53
Given all that information I think I can make some really good spells. I would do it by writing down on a piece of paper what I want, then all the whys of why I want it for the greater good. Then rehearse it over and over and over again. Saying each word with meaning. And then once it's deeply embedded into my consciousness I can burn the paper and say a prayer. Then let it go into the hands of the universe. IDK I just made that up. What do you think?
All that matters is the Intent behind the actions you do.  If doing all that places the appropriate Intent, then yup, that would work just fine.

Alternatively, if you can figure out how to place the Intent of those actions without DOING those actions... then you've learned to place Intent and then don't require tools any further.  :)

But yeah, whatever works is what works.  LoL

Just be sure that the "WHY" is compatible with your spiritual goals.  :)


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on February 28, 2015, 01:00:30
I used to practice spells and I was fairly good at it even before I knew what was going on.  I think it can be an okay tool as long as you understand what is happening. Xanth just did a good job of explaining the workings. That being said you do have to be careful to make sure your not working against your spiritual development. The spell tends to bite back when you do that. I don't necessarily believe in the wiccan law of 3 but from personal experience, doing spells for purposes that will interfere with spiritual development will either fall flat on their faces or bite you in the @$$.  Divine connection is very very important when doing any kind of work like this. That connection needs to be strong, and your mind in good order. You need to have unwavering and calm focus and be able to channel your intent.


A little interesting historical note. The spells you see often that stem from animistic practice ( ancestor worship) are given to the practitioner by the spirits of the ancestors. According to scandinavian belief ( that was my practice before) the spells can only be passed on to one other person or they loose their power. 

A strong belief in this translated it to reality. The spells can be seen in folklore.  The Finnish Kalevela is an example of this. The continuity between the ancestor dieties and the spell are very clear when you look at them this way.  Scriptures are often used as charms. You see this in Jewish, Christian,  and Islamic traditions. The famous Hoo doo spells as recorded by Hyatt are another traditional magic which is passed down orally and has origins in ancestor worship.

 I think the study of spells is very interesting and worthwhile. I would encourage you to explore and don't stay in the box. Exploring spirituality, the connection and oneness with the Divine, and how that relates to physical life in the past and it's applications for the present are fascinating.  The one thing to stay away from is a superficial literal minded approach. This rarely works for people. Instead look deeply at the spiritual and sympathetic principles and symbolisms presented and how that applies to spiritual practice for development.



Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 28, 2015, 01:30:49
Agreed.  It's kind of like the anecdote that Tom Campbell tells of trying to heal someone of some ailment.  If the ailment keeps coming back after being "healed", then it's probably there for a good reason, and that reason is a learning experience for the individual.  Simply put, you can't remove something from someone which they a) don't want removed in the first place or b) they NEED to have in order for their spiritual growth to occur.  They have a lesson they *MUST* learn from it and you can't change that outcome.  Forcing a change in that outcome would then be a negative spiritual growth experience because you're attempting to manipulate them to how YOU think they should be. 


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 28, 2015, 02:02:06
Thanks BTP for chiming in along with Xanth. Nice to see someone on that has some experience with this. BTW you wouldn't happen to know how I can reconcile Christianity with witchcraft would you?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 28, 2015, 02:22:27
Thanks BTP for chiming in along with Xanth. Nice to see someone on that has some experience with this. BTW you wouldn't happen to know how I can reconcile Christianity with witchcraft would you?
I'm sure she'll ask, but... what do you feel you need to reconcile?  What do you feel is incompatible between them?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on February 28, 2015, 02:56:02
It depends on how you define witchcraft. In the new testament nothing is said about witchcraft. It's in the Levitical law. Are you following that law which includes sacrificing sheep, goats, eating kosher foods only, going outside the city to take a dump and burying it? That being said the biblical definition of witchcraft is someone who uses spirit to harm other. The practice of witchcraft as it was back then was very rough stuff. I don't think that is your interest

Christ left us with two rules as seen in the gospel of John. We are to love God and love each other..  But honestly though it's an interesting study, why not just ask God to help you do these things?  That's what he's there for right?  I think that is a bit more practical. I put the information there because it's an interesting study I think. Practically speaking I don't use those tools anymore.Yea it's fun to go into the woods and boil a kettle with some herbs on an open fire.. but there are better ways than that to really get things done.

Christianity has it's own brand of spellwork and it's worth a study. If your interested take a look at the saints of the catholic and orthodox churches.There are traditional ritual called Novenas

take a look here http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/novena.htm 

Again it's an interesting study but when it comes to practical work I think that learning to focus and learning to project your intent effectively is best done ex nilo.  It's also a lot cheaper.

In the study if you want to look through some reading material, try to see deeper than the superficial structure of the spell. I mean do some digging into symbolism and such. You can use that knowledge to help you learn to focus and project intent.

I often recommend the  Abramelin ritual for those new to magic. But if you cannot deeply contemplate what is in the grimoire and go beyond what the book says into the spiritual workings and meaning,  it will be an impossible thing to do.  Likewise with other spell work. You need to study more than superficial content and apply that study to spiritual principles to put into practice. ... else you'll just have a nice .. or foul smelling pot of boiled water and charcoal.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on February 28, 2015, 02:59:30
I forgot to add. On the Novenas each saint is a patron of a particular need. Since study is always a good thing I would suggest researching that. The novenas do not always tell you what the ritual is for. Also the novenas follow the same pattern as other spells. The novena is given by the spirit for a particular purpose. Another subject to research are miraglos... but I'll leave that for you to busy yourself with.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: mon9999 on February 28, 2015, 05:17:25
Intent is not enough, you have to create a powerful thoughtform


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 28, 2015, 07:07:11
Intent is not enough, you have to create a powerful thoughtform
And I assume that is done with strong will power and desire?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 28, 2015, 08:04:45
Intent is not enough, you have to create a powerful thoughtform
What do you think it is that "creates" your "thoughtform". 


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on February 28, 2015, 14:53:55
You are always creating and destroying  thoughtforms. Focus is more important than intent. You cannot force a spell to happen you have to find the stream and flow with it. To do this you have to be able to detect the stream which means psychic development and find the best way to guide it to your intent. At least that's what it feels like... Focusing on that stream is the most difficult task. Overemphasising intent will kill the stream. You have to open and flow. Forced intent is a closing action which shuts everything down. Remember spirit is subtle.

Keep in mind I'm talking in metephore here. Tom Campbells assertion that the physical world is an appearance is one that I agree with. He does a better job of explaining the nuts and bolts of spellwork than is usual. I don't agree with all the metephoric details he uses but the main ideas he has are dead on. My own experiments have shown similar results. I'm dividing the physical from the spirit when your working with both at the same time the metephore is the best way to describe it. But it isn't totally reflective of reality

The reason why I encourage the Abramelin work is because it focuses on the spiritual development in the direction and with the intensity needed to be able to do these things. But the book is mystical and so taking it at face value as recreationist  magicians do tends to lead to failure when it comes to the actual operation. I've actually only seen one person out of dozens bother to even look at the grimoire. The failure rate is very high in the magical arts because of superficial thinking and lack of development.  This is the text if your interested in doing something for real.

 http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/abr/

It's a good idea to do experiments in spiritual development. But at some point you will get frustrated and bored with it and want something more substantial. Thats when you get into something serious like Abramelin. 


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: LightBeam on February 28, 2015, 19:36:58
Hey Bluefirephoenix,

What do you think about using objects during spells. Do they affect the energy flow in some ways, or they just assist to trick the mind to believe it will work. I think the belief is the element which brings the higher energy frequency to more dense one, corresponding with the vibratory rate of our world, so we can actually see it as a manifestation. Intent creates thought forms, yes, but if the conscious or subconscious belief is an opposite one, most likely that thought form will never become dense enough to enter the physical reality.
I have never tried spells or magic, I have always used my thoughts and beliefs to attract what I want, but never used objects, or went to a grave yard at midnight to do a ceremony LOL. Do you think all that spell work actually assist in a way in addition to our focus, thoughts and beliefs?

What do you think about Voodoo? I have heard so many stories, but horrific ones. They do use dolls to affect a person. Do you think the dolls play a role in the results?


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on February 28, 2015, 19:44:07
We got t a lot of questions of you BFP.  :-D

You know I always thought it would be a great idea to use a moderate amount of a psychedelic to help one get psychically in touch with focus and intent to do a spell. Kind of like how shamans work. I know psychedelics have been used by witches to do spell-work. I am almost sure this would have to be a big tool in the witches arsenal. I bet even Abramelin has talked about this. Any thoughts on that BFP?


What do you think it is that "creates" your "thoughtform". 
Well what I typed there, will power, and desire by intent. I guess visualization can work too with it. Then according to BFP focus is very very important too.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Xanth on February 28, 2015, 22:14:01
Well what I typed there, will power, and desire by intent. I guess visualization can work too with it. Then according to BFP focus is very very important too.
Those are all part and parcel of what you use to "place" the Intent.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on March 01, 2015, 03:01:05
I take a very strong stance on etheogens. It's not really appropriate for discussion in the forum. I will answer your question but any further discussion will have to be in PM.

The real shamanic path is physically and mentally brutal. The idea is to break your body and mind to open you to the non physical. The substances used by shamans are only used after a rigerous initiation which involves extensive fasting and physical exertion to drive the aspirant close to physical death as possible. Failure to complete the initiation results in death. 

The quasi shamanic dabbling  with etheogens popular in neopagan movments are basically drug trip parties and have no place in spiritual work in my opinion.   THis is about the only subject where you will see me come down hard like this. Going the long way and developing the skills will give you far more interesting experiences and results.

In order to be valuable you need to be able to initiate the projection, spell, evocation ect.  at will. There are no short cuts. Learning real magic is hard work and takes dedication. The reality that we live in we know is an appearance ( illusion) however it is a difficult thing to break this. In fact I don't think it can be completely broken while living here. ( I could be wrong on this)

Next question.
What do you think about using objects during spells. Do they affect the energy flow in some ways, or they just assist to trick the mind to believe it will work.

There is a saying by the Golden Dawn I think.. the magic is in the magician. You use tools in spell work as well as other spiritual work to assist your focus. The objects have no intrinsic value. I spent a lot of money before I learned this.... but I will say my Enochian table of practice is absolutely beautiful and I had a lot of fun making seals out of metals.  The symbolism of the objects is what is important. The objects are metephors.




 I think the belief is the element which brings the higher energy frequency to more dense one, corresponding with the vibratory rate of our world, so we can actually see it as a manifestation. Intent creates thought forms, yes, but if the conscious or subconscious belief is an opposite one, most likely that thought form will never become dense enough to enter the physical reality.

I understand your point but I like Campbells explanation better. That's just me though. I don't place importance on objects. In fact I often found the objects and ritual to get in the way and would do better even before my initiation without them or making up something on my own.

I have never tried spells or magic, I have always used my thoughts and beliefs to attract what I want, but never used objects, or went to a grave yard at midnight to do a ceremony LOL. Do you think all that spell work actually assist in a way in addition to our focus, thoughts and beliefs?

 I found it distracting, even in my early work. But then I never follow recicpies ( except when I'm mixing medications at work) I get the gist of the recipie and then make my own improvements.

What do you think about Voodoo? I have heard so many stories, but horrific ones. They do use dolls to affect a person. Do you think the dolls play a role in the results?

Again the doll is a metephor and dolls don't belong to voodou. They're used as an effigy in many different traditions. Voodou is a religion. It's a mix of Catholicsim and West African animistic faiths with a dash of spiritualism thrown in. Some of the other sects that are similar are Umbanda, Kimbanda, Palo Mayobe, and Santeria. It's initiatory and requires that a person be chosen by the Lwa to be their medium. Offerings and animal sacrifices are traditional. They do have spell work in the traditions but it's practiced only by participants who have some kind of connection with the Lwa.( ancestor spirits) The folk magic tradition associated with these sects is called gris gris

Hoo doo  and other folk magic traditions use what we call sympathetic type spells. The metephorical objects are obviously connected to what is intended. for example you don't want someone to talk. You use an effigy ( a cows tongue) and sew it up to stop the undesired comments. Cow tongues were frequently eaten a generation ago. All the material for the spells in folk magic were readily available stuff you would get at the grocery store or find locally in the woods.


I think your better off doing psychic development and some studying as to the exact nature of spirit to physical works.   There are 3 parts to this video I suggest you watch it. It may not make sense to you right away but it is a good description of what you are dealing with.  If you want to discuss the Abramelin after reading it  please post it on another thread so the subjects are separated and easier to follow. please. I would focus on the development before spending tons of money on junk for spells. It can get very expensive and be discouraging if you don't have the development and skill needed to make any kind of effect.

There are 3 videos here and these explain the principles of how magic works better than anything I've ever seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nlbro2MNBs


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: desert-rat on March 01, 2015, 03:20:02
L.O.A. , creative visualzation , magic , same music different words . 


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 01, 2015, 22:33:17
Well I guess that just about answers all my questions for now. Thanks for you input BFP.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: Bluefirephoenix on March 02, 2015, 00:46:36
sure thing :-)


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: damnuok on March 02, 2015, 05:22:51
Agreed.  It's kind of like the anecdote that Tom Campbell tells of trying to heal someone of some ailment.  If the ailment keeps coming back after being "healed", then it's probably there for a good reason, and that reason is a learning experience for the individual.  Simply put, you can't remove something from someone which they a) don't want removed in the first place or b) they NEED to have in order for their spiritual growth to occur.  They have a lesson they *MUST* learn from it and you can't change that outcome.  Forcing a change in that outcome would then be a negative spiritual growth experience because you're attempting to manipulate them to how YOU think they should be. 

Absolutely truth, spot on. Great post, you've got it right. Everything that happens in this world is a learning experience. Everything.
People should look at everything that happens to them with that perspective. A learning perspective. What can I learn from this?

In the end, we all need more love, more light and above all, more introspection.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: damnuok on March 02, 2015, 05:39:22
In regards to this topic, sure you can check out "spells", but be careful. There's lot of negative enery around most spells. I guess it's better to check out "love prayers" instead..

anyway, what Xanth said is spot on. Intent, focus, is all you need to make something work (if you know what you're doing).

Spells and witchcraft, 99% of them have negative entities and energy around them, you might easily attract that kind of stuff if you don't know what you're doing.

Just be careful man, you should be "working" torwards your spiritual growth. For that, all you need is to look INSIDE. In absolutely no shape or way will "magick" help you be closer to God, or help you ascend into higher planes or "communicate" with higher consciousnesses.

I don't know if you know how to leave your body, but if you do, just "move your consciousness" to your "hearth chakra" or what you believe to be the "love source" inside yourself and you might find a "space" absolutely white or even a "White Temple". Free yourself from everything and strive to find something like a pure sphere of Light.

You might find all the wisdom and knowledge through this path that you will not find elsewhere.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 03, 2015, 00:08:15
Thanks for your input damnuok. I obviously need to start taking baby steps in order to walk this path.


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: mon9999 on March 03, 2015, 01:41:27
Visualization is a very weak thoughtform creation.. One has to feed their thoughtform with emotions, thought, intent, will and physical body..this way the thoughtform will be powerful enough to manifest your desire.. An example of this is writing down your desire, while writing down your desire feel the emotion of accomplishment while you are imagining of already having what you desire, the written words(ink and paper) will serve as the physical body of your thoughtform..this is how sigil works or any other spells, some people paint or draw their desire, some performs a ritual..the important is you give your thoughtform a link to the physical world


Title: Re: How effective do you guys think magick and spells are?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 03, 2015, 02:09:24
Visualization is a very weak thoughtform creation.. One has to feed their thoughtform with emotions, thought, intent, will and physical body..this way the thoughtform will be powerful enough to manifest your desire.. An example of this is writing down your desire, while writing down your desire feel the emotion of accomplishment while you are imagining of already having what you desire, the written words(ink and paper) will serve as the physical body of your thoughtform..this is how sigil works or any other spells, some people paint or draw their desire, some performs a ritual..the important is you give your thoughtform a link to the physical world
Thanks for that mon9999, I didn't know that. I am already fairly good at visualizing so I will probably work on that.