The Astral Pulse

Astral Chat => Welcome to Astral Chat! => Topic started by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 13, 2017, 17:59:51



Title: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 13, 2017, 17:59:51
I've heard William Buhlman say if you die a bigot you will continue to be a bigot in the afterlife. But skin color isn't much of a thing on the astral is it? Or are there still racists on the other side too?


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 13, 2017, 18:43:36
Let's see if I can work with this...

Do this thought experiment.

There's a bathtub full of water...
Now grab a small vessel which can hold water, like a glass/cup.
Scoop up a small amount of water from the tub.  Now do whatever you want to that water... heat it up over a fire... or cool it down by adding ice.
Now, dump that water back into the tub...

What have you just done?  That bathtub full of water represents all of consciousness. 
The glass of water represents an individual awareness (you, for example). 
The action done to the water (heat or cold) represents the life events happening to you (the glass of water).

When you're born into this reality, you're taken from the vast tub of consciousness... you then have life experiences which change the water fundamentally... then when you die, that water is returned to the vast tub of consciousness, which then changes the tub full of water ever so slightly in one way or the other.  This is how you can personally affect consciousness as a whole.

Now, after reading all that, you might be wondering what it means in relation to the question you asked.  Are there racists in the astral.  No, there aren't.  You experience the "non-physical" through the filters of being a human being.  This might be impossible, but try to consider how you would interact with the non-physical NOT through the filters of your humanity.  You probably can't even begin to fathom how it would work...

Racism, such as we know it (that's the POINT), is a human thing... and beyond that, it's just a label which has no bearing on anything outside this physical reality.  Or even outside of human existence.

You are nothing but water in a bathtub which was scooped up in order to further heat or cool that bathtub when you go back to it. 


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 13, 2017, 22:12:29
Let's see if I can work with this...

Do this thought experiment.

There's a bathtub full of water...
Now grab a small vessel which can hold water, like a glass/cup.
Scoop up a small amount of water from the tub.  Now do whatever you want to that water... heat it up over a fire... or cool it down by adding ice.
Now, dump that water back into the tub...

What have you just done?  That bathtub full of water represents all of consciousness. 
The glass of water represents an individual awareness (you, for example). 
The action done to the water (heat or cold) represents the life events happening to you (the glass of water).

When you're born into this reality, you're taken from the vast tub of consciousness... you then have life experiences which change the water fundamentally... then when you die, that water is returned to the vast tub of consciousness, which then changes the tub full of water ever so slightly in one way or the other.  This is how you can personally affect consciousness as a whole.

Now, after reading all that, you might be wondering what it means in relation to the question you asked.  Are there racists in the astral.  No, there aren't.  You experience the "non-physical" through the filters of being a human being.  This might be impossible, but try to consider how you would interact with the non-physical NOT through the filters of your humanity.  You probably can't even begin to fathom how it would work...

Racism, such as we know it (that's the POINT), is a human thing... and beyond that, it's just a label which has no bearing on anything outside this physical reality.  Or even outside of human existence.

You are nothing but water in a bathtub which was scooped up in order to further heat or cool that bathtub when you go back to it. 
I get your analogy here and it makes sense. But how does Williams quote about being a bigot in the afterlife/astral fit into this whole thing then? Does being a bigot in the afterlife only apply to belief system territories then?


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 14, 2017, 00:15:23
The way I would see this is , if some one is a determined raciest,  then dies . They hang around as a mean ghost unwilling to move on .


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 14, 2017, 01:17:56
I get your analogy here and it makes sense. But how does Williams quote about being a bigot in the afterlife/astral fit into this whole thing then? Does being a bigot in the afterlife only apply to belief system territories then?
My post answers your question...

Ok, ok ok... SOMETIMES I talk just to hear my own voice.  I'll give ya that.  ;)
This isn't one of those times.  LoL

I'll give you a hint: I'm slowly starting to consider the possibility that "reincarnation" doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 14, 2017, 01:24:52
I am thinking W. Bulhman is on face book or twitter . You might ask him yourself.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 14, 2017, 04:31:48
I'll give you a hint: I'm slowly starting to consider the possibility that "reincarnation" doesn't exist.
Yes I was already aware that you are questioning if reincarnation exists.

Ok so the bigot goes to a concenus reatily and belief system territories.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 14, 2017, 04:33:19
The way I would see this is , if some one is a determined raciest,  then dies . They hang around as a mean ghost unwilling to move on .
Makes sense. Hope I'm not missing something.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 14, 2017, 05:31:13
In one of W. Buhlmans books he writes of remembering a past life as a German ww2 tank commander.  So he believes in reincarnation.  Freezing to death in the USSR . 


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 14, 2017, 05:58:41
In one of W. Buhlmans books he writes of remembering a past life as a German ww2 tank commander.  So he believes in reincarnation.  Freezing to death in the USSR . 
Yeah and I was Cleopatra in my past life. LOL No I'm kidding. That seems more likely than what some of these psychics will tell you.  :wink:


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Riddle on March 14, 2017, 10:22:08
Why would you stop believing in reincarnation? I am curious to hear your reasons.  I mean, if we managed to get here once, what's the problem to do it another time?


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 14, 2017, 13:23:04
Yes I was already aware that you are questioning if reincarnation exists.

Ok so the bigot goes to a concenus reatily and belief system territories.
Well, I guess my question does make the assumption that you're asking about projecting while you're still physically alive or if you're asking this regarding AFTER you've physically died.

A bigot would project and would still be a bigot and would experience the non-physical through those filters of his physical life. 
After dying, the shackles of the bigot's physical filters would be cast aside along with everything else physical and they would return to consciousness.

Most people don't like that answer, because it would likely mean the end of their individual awareness existence.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 14, 2017, 13:30:27
Why would you stop believing in reincarnation? I am curious to hear your reasons.  I mean, if we managed to get here once, what's the problem to do it another time?
Because it doesn't make sense to be something which objectively happens.
What does makes sense is that the very idea of "reincarnation" is born from the fear that we might cease to exist upon our physical death.

My original post above outlines a possibility of what might happen when we die.  When you return to the "tub of consciousness" (oh man, I love that term now LOL) you become one with everything again.
Think about it... all of the concepts we currently have towards the "afterlife" are born out of the "human experience".  They're put through the filter of our experience. 

People talk about reincarnation in the way they do, because they fear becoming *nothing* when they die. 

Well... what if you did become nothing upon physically dying?  I think a good chunk of society wouldn't be very happy with that idea. 

Am I happy with it?  I'm fine with it.  It is what it is. 

But that also means that "reincarnation" isn't what most people think it is.  It's simply a new glass being dipped into the tub and pulling out more water.
That specific bit of water could contain some of what you *were*, but what you *physically were* was stripped away the moment you died and only the non-physical part of you returns to the one.

Consider this:  Any answer born out of fear can never be the correct answer.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 14, 2017, 15:01:05
Because it doesn't make sense to be something which objectively happens.
What does makes sense is that the very idea of "reincarnation" is born from the fear that we might cease to exist upon our physical death.

My original post above outlines a possibility of what might happen when we die.  When you return to the "tub of consciousness" (oh man, I love that term now LOL) you become one with everything again.
Think about it... all of the concepts we currently have towards the "afterlife" are born out of the "human experience".  They're put through the filter of our experience. 

People talk about reincarnation in the way they do, because they fear becoming *nothing* when they die. 

Well... what if you did become nothing upon physically dying?  I think a good chunk of society wouldn't be very happy with that idea. 

Am I happy with it?  I'm fine with it.  It is what it is. 

But that also means that "reincarnation" isn't what most people think it is.  It's simply a new glass being dipped into the tub and pulling out more water.
That specific bit of water could contain some of what you *were*, but what you *physically were* was stripped away the moment you died and only the non-physical part of you returns to the one.

Consider this:  Any answer born out of fear can never be the correct answer.
I thought the belief in reincarnation was a hard pill to swallow for Christians, atheists, and agnostics. It would mean that you had to come back to this place of misery and it would force one to confront their karma or actions. I guess it depends on what reference your coming from as to if it seems like a man made idea.

Also try to explain this video on reincarnation. It's one of the best testimonies I've ever seen for reincarnation.

Today show. March 16th, 2015 Expert investigates 10-year-old’s reincarnation claims
www.today.com/video/today/57120459


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 14, 2017, 19:28:46
I dont think any one could provide 100% proof of reincarnation , a few people do have memories .  Some people do have problems going back to events in a past life .  Some people with eatting dis orders ( fat and skinny )  had past lives as members of the Doner party . They turned to canibalism to stay alive .  There is a guy  that has memories of having been Thomas Andrews , one of the builders of the Titanic . Andrews died with that ship . There is a boy that has memories of a ww2 pilot .  He has knowledge of that era air craft , no small boy would normanl have , and knows the names of  past life family members . He has night mares of being shot down in a dog fight .  
p.a. Robert Monroe wrote of a number of  his past lives .  As I remember he had been a monk and learned a.p. that was one of the reasons it came to him easly .


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: LightBeam on March 14, 2017, 20:55:05
If we experience only one personality ever, then what amount of knowledge will we gain. I am not talking reincarnation only in the physical, but in many other dimensions. Lets not separate what we call physical and all other levels of existence regardless of thought responsiveness. What knowledge will a baby who lives a few hours only will receive? Or the fruit fly, LOL. Think about it.
Individual spirits will always have personalities no matter where they are. It's a part of the multiversal existence. If you only decide to merge completely with the source and become one with everything, then you will lose your personality, but then there will be no more learning. The reason the source spread as endless personalities is to continue growing and expanding. Otherwise there will be just one static ball of energy :)

I don't think we loose our personality immediately after death. If it was so, when we project there will be no interactions with different entities. They do have personalities, right? Many of us have done retrievals, and the spirits trapped still retained their personalities, fears, beliefs, that's why they were trapped. Also, we as the personalities we know currently exist simultaneously in many many levels.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 14, 2017, 21:43:50
To quite D ick Sutphen we are made up of 4 bodies.  Phy , astral,  energy,  and mental.   


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 14, 2017, 23:07:03
Today show. March 16th, 2015 Expert investigates 10-year-old’s reincarnation claims
www.today.com/video/today/57120459
If I was to use the concept above of the "tub of consciousness!!"... then the claims like those of this 10 year old prove that awareness has access to all of consciousness more than it proves reincarnation.  This glass used to grab some of the water from the tub, grabbed more than just water for himself.  Easy.

The thing about this is that people will, LITERALLY, see only what they want to see.  The people who believe in reincarnation would absolutely and OUTRIGHT refuse to consider any other option.  That's why the only supposition put forward is "OMG THIS CHILD REINCARNATED!"

It's actually a great example of how belief blinds people.

Remember, I'm not saying I'm right... I'm just saying that from what I've learned, consciousness isn't as easy as "how it looks is how it is"... it's actually quite the opposite.
I'm simply trying to look at things from a vastly different perspective than most people even care to bother to want to look at things.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Subtle Traveler on March 15, 2017, 00:26:39
I like what LightBeam wrote ... this resonates more with me than other things stated here.



Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 15, 2017, 00:55:33
If I was to use the concept above of the "tub of consciousness!!"... then the claims like those of this 10 year old prove that awareness has access to all of consciousness more than it proves reincarnation.  This glass used to grab some of the water from the tub, grabbed more than just water for himself.  Easy.

The thing about this is that people will, LITERALLY, see only what they want to see.  The people who believe in reincarnation would absolutely and OUTRIGHT refuse to consider any other option.  That's why the only supposition put forward is "OMG THIS CHILD REINCARNATED!"

It's actually a great example of how belief blinds people.

Remember, I'm not saying I'm right... I'm just saying that from what I've learned, consciousness isn't as easy as "how it looks is how it is"... it's actually quite the opposite.
I'm simply trying to look at things from a vastly different perspective than most people even care to bother to want to look at things.
I actually thought there was a possibility that this kid could have been remote viewing into this other past life. I didn't mention it because I thought it was more unlikely. In fact I think it was you Xanth that first got me thinking about reincarnation memories along these lines. I won't totally rule that out but in my mind it raises much more questions than answers. Eg all the NDEs that confirm reincarnation, some from people that didn't even believe in reincarnation before their NDE. But at the end of the day I am going with what LightBeam said as the most logical explanation. But I like that you question the status quo Xanth, it's hard to do, and we need this type of out side of the box thinking more often in society. If not for any other reason than to provide food for thought.  :wink:


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 15, 2017, 00:57:04
So is there a general consensus that racists can exist in the astral? That is in the same capacity that bigots can exist in the astral.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: LightBeam on March 15, 2017, 02:52:05
So is there a general consensus that racists can exist in the astral? That is in the same capacity that bigots can exist in the astral.

Anything can exist in the astral, as it's just another place (endless places actually) where spirits with their personalities create and experience accordingly. Any thought from any spirit suggests a personality. If it was just our physical reality and each of us has only one life, and then immediately after that is the oneness, things don't add up. At least not from APs and NDEs explorations. If that was the case, we wont be sensing presence of guides or see and hear ghosts if you will. They have no physical bodies, yet they are there and it seems like they have personalities :) Or our APs and NDEs are all illusions?
Also, learning from others' experiences is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I can describe to you what love feels like, but unless you have the circumstances through which you will get to directly feel it, you will never truly know. This is where reincarnation makes sense. There can be no true knowledge without direct experience. And by reincarnation I don't only mean experiencing earthly lives throughout the ages. We can assume any personality at any reality less or more thought responsive.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 15, 2017, 02:57:15
I actually thought there was a possibility that this kid could have been remote viewing into this other past life.
YUP!  That's another possibility.  :)

Good job thinking outside the box!

So is there a general consensus that racists can exist in the astral? That is in the same capacity that bigots can exist in the astral.
ONLY within the confines of the human experience filter.  Outside that filter, no, it doesn't exist.

Let me ask you this... if you didn't experience reality from the perspective of your human experience, what would the word "racism" even mean?

Honestly, if you answer that question with ANY answer... you're wrong.  There is no answer, because you, literally, can't think outside the perspective your human experience.  It's simply beyond *our* consciousness capacity to do so.

So if you experience the non-physical *ONLY* from within the box labeled "humanity"... what does that mean for your question?  (Hint: I've already answered it above)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 15, 2017, 03:02:41
I have to thank you Plasma... you've inadvertently opened my mind up to other possibilities.  O_o

For example...
What is a non-physical experience outside of the perception of our human experience?  O_O

*mind blown*


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: LightBeam on March 15, 2017, 03:09:13
Humans and any other life forms that we may encounter in physical like realities also exist in what we call non physical realities in multiple levels. Of course it's a matter of choice, but still.....Anything can exist anywhere in the multiverse.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: EscapeVelocity on March 15, 2017, 04:14:31
A great tangent off Plasma's OP...

Ultimately, I think the answer is beyond the Physical Human perspective; the best we can do is arrive at a proximate answer.

I like and have considered all the perspectives offered and will add a couple more. I like Xanth's proposition from a theoretical perspective but LightBeam's view resonates better for me.

What I have learned over and over during my brief time on Earth is the wonderful and mystifyingly complex diversity of beings and perspectives available to us as Consciousness. So why shouldn't that diversity apply to our available options once we exit this PR frame of reference? I think that for some of us reincarnation is both an option and maybe a necessity. Maybe some of us are simple one-timers- we are here for this one life, then we are headed elsewhere; different lives as endlessly divergent conscious beings, both in Physical and Non-Physical environments. Some of us may return for a dip in the 'tub of Cosmic Awareness' then head out again; maybe some choose to return to the Source more permanently.

I think that it is all available to us. I think that the options available to us are much greater than we can conceive of while in our present incarnations. Apparently we did not all come from the same place and when we leave here, there are many destinations open to us.

LightBeam makes a great point about the necessity of some form of persistent personality that moves from experience to experience; otherwise what's the point of developing one in the first place? Xanth also refers to this and they both imply the essential question- how much of the 'personality' survives from life to life? And ultimately, for how long? Eternity? Half of Eternity? Or maybe a billion years from now, we do allow ourselves to blend back into that 'Sea of Consciousness'... 

It is my current thinking that much of our individual ego/personality actually does not survive...it degrades and erodes over time in the Afterlife. I think that an essential basic form of ego moves on, but honestly I'm unclear on just how much. The intrinsic 'fear' that I am left with, I think may be that part of my personal ego that 'knows' it will be lost...

This is a question that Taoism, Buddhism and other arts deal with, either directly or indirectly- the issue of arriving at a place where Ego is minimized or eliminated. The Buddhists work to create a 'body of Clear Light' that they will transfer into at death that leaves Ego and Karma behind. I don't think that means the entire destruction of the personality and its' memories, but at least a complete understanding and control of it; and therefore a huge minimization of it.

For those who have had a fair amount of Non-Physical experiences, I think that we have had a good glimpse of that state of mind. I have come to realize a very significant difference between my Physical personality and my NP personality. I'm still working on understanding the differences, but my NPR-based personality seems very much reduced in some ways compared to the Earthbound version.

As to the OP, I think racism is a natural reaction in a Physical-based world that is significantly predatory in nature. It is a survival instinct that pushes us to group together for defense with similar people, whatever that similarity may be. As a species, hopefully we learn to move beyond it. In the NP, it gradually becomes apparent that we no longer need to depend on this trait.



Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: LightBeam on March 15, 2017, 04:35:35
Very well said, EV :)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Subtle Traveler on March 15, 2017, 17:28:04
EV ...

Yes. There is diversity ... and probably much, much more diversity beyond this physical experience than is currently being imagined on this thread.

I had written out a similar response yesterday, but retracted it because it was so far beyond the initial question of racism. The reason that I personally resonated more with LightBeam's response is that I generally disagree with Xanth's 'metaphorical leap to oneness in a large pond' immediately upon our transition. There are many layers in our evolving as evidenced by the four TMI explorer tapes with Miranon.

If I were to use a guiding metaphor for our existence in the physical and non-physical, I would point to an example used by Frank DeMarco's friend Rita Warren in Rita's World I and II. It is the egg and the chicken. In her metaphor ... our physical existence is the egg, our transition to the non-physical is its hatching, and in the non-physical we become the chicken we were meant to grow into. We are essentially "becoming" as we incubate here in physical reality.

There are certainly many life times, but from my perspective, the human baggage associated with the term "reincarnation" blinds us from our real experience.

As held forth by Rita, we are essentially complex beings (not singular as perceived physically), and each physical life time is a new egg (and chicken). Therefore, our primary composition is that of a "community'. Our inner being is a community and this is part of our developing guidance system. We are a growing flock of chickens if Rita's metaphor is carried to its conclusion.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 15, 2017, 18:11:25
I'll address LightBeam's original post.

I'll preface by repeating I don't believe I'm *correct* in anything I say here... I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate for a bit and thinking out loud.   :)

If we experience only one personality ever, then what amount of knowledge will we gain. I am not talking reincarnation only in the physical, but in many other dimensions. Lets not separate what we call physical and all other levels of existence regardless of thought responsiveness. What knowledge will a baby who lives a few hours only will receive? Or the fruit fly, LOL. Think about it.
Individual spirits will always have personalities no matter where they are. It's a part of the multiversal existence. If you only decide to merge completely with the source and become one with everything, then you will lose your personality, but then there will be no more learning. The reason the source spread as endless personalities is to continue growing and expanding. Otherwise there will be just one static ball of energy :)
What my supposition above alludes to is that, in the end, the whole of consciousness is greater than the sum of its parts (us).
If I had to further reason this out, I'd say it's NOT the idea that there's one personality (for example: you or me) and that personality goes through many different physical incarnations having many different experiences.  It would kind of be like as you suggest above, your personality would disappear immediately upon ACTUAL death and transitions back to the whole of consciousness.  The important part of the "you" (the non-physical parts of you - personality being a PHYSICAL aspect of you and how you interact with the world around you) returns and either evolves or de-evolves consciousness.  In the end, you're still always connected to that whole though... it's like the ocean / wave analogy.  The wave is born out of the ocean, but is still always connected to the ocean.

I've always said that if there's no afterlife or no actual reason for being then there's really no reason to continue existing that it would be such a horrible waste... in the case above, you are helping the whole of consciousness to evolve towards a more organized state.  So that's your reason for being.

That each time a life is born, it's born with a newly grabbed bit of that consciousness... hence starting fresh and would be a good reason for why you have no memories of anything you've previously experienced... because you haven't. You'd be a new awareness unit.

Quote
I don't think we loose our personality immediately after death. If it was so, when we project there will be no interactions with different entities. They do have personalities, right? Many of us have done retrievals, and the spirits trapped still retained their personalities, fears, beliefs, that's why they were trapped. Also, we as the personalities we know currently exist simultaneously in many many levels.
There isn't a single person alive today who can say that they "died" (finality).  So, even while you're having a NDE... you're still part of this physical reality in some way.  This means that you're still experiencing the non-physical through those "human experience" filters I mentioned before.  So while we're experiencing what we consider a "retrieval", on the greater scheme of things... what is it we're actually experiencing?  Especially if reincarnation isn't what we think it is? 

As I said, I'm just kind of thinking outloud... and none of this requires any answers.  It's just been a very neat subject to discuss and I haven't had this much fun in a while.  :)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 15, 2017, 21:07:28
So, even while you're having a NDE... you're still part of this physical reality in some way.  This means that you're still experiencing the non-physical through those "human experience" filters I mentioned before. 
I would say this is not true if we look at the case of people like Eben Alexander where his brain was in total shutdown there would be no connection to the body at all because he was in a coma. And yet he had a very rich experience far beyond anything that is physically possible.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 15, 2017, 21:46:31
I would say this is not true if we look at the case of people like Eben Alexander where his brain was in total shutdown there would be no connection to the body at all because he was in a coma. And yet he had a very rich experience far beyond anything that is physically possible.
If he was in a Coma, then he wasn't dead.  AND he's still alive now... so he was never FINALLY, IRREVERSIBLY dead.  Right?  Right.  :)

Science LITERALLY can not answer the question "when does final, irreversible death occur?".  We just simply do not know.
Do a bit of research on the subject and you'll quickly find that science doesn't know when the "FINAL" death actually happens.
It's exactly the same with "dreaming"... science can't answer the question of "what is dreaming?" or "what is it's function?".

So yes... there isn't a person alive today who has been *DEAD* with that complete, final disconnect from their physical body. 


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 15, 2017, 22:20:54
YUP!  That's another possibility.  :)

Good job thinking outside the box!
ONLY within the confines of the human experience filter.  Outside that filter, no, it doesn't exist.
:-)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: grrla on March 16, 2017, 21:49:34
If he was in a Coma, then he wasn't dead.  AND he's still alive now... so he was never FINALLY, IRREVERSIBLY dead.  Right?  Right.  :)

Science LITERALLY can not answer the question "when does final, irreversible death occur?".  We just simply do not know.
Do a bit of research on the subject and you'll quickly find that science doesn't know when the "FINAL" death actually happens.
It's exactly the same with "dreaming"... science can't answer the question of "what is dreaming?" or "what is it's function?".

So yes... there isn't a person alive today who has been *DEAD* with that complete, final disconnect from their physical body. 

Reversible death or irreversible death is still death
But I don't like unanswerable hypothesises and I think we can't go beyond these, here


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 16, 2017, 21:52:36
If he was in a Coma, then he wasn't dead.  AND he's still alive now... so he was never FINALLY, IRREVERSIBLY dead.  Right?  Right.  :)

Science LITERALLY can not answer the question "when does final, irreversible death occur?".  We just simply do not know.
Do a bit of research on the subject and you'll quickly find that science doesn't know when the "FINAL" death actually happens.
It's exactly the same with "dreaming"... science can't answer the question of "what is dreaming?" or "what is it's function?".

So yes... there isn't a person alive today who has been *DEAD* with that complete, final disconnect from their physical body. 
I thought you didn't like debating. :-P :wink: :roll:


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 17, 2017, 12:59:00
Reversible death or irreversible death is still death
If you can be brought BACK to life... then you weren't "dead".  ;)

Quote
But I don't like unanswerable hypothesises and I think we can't go beyond these, here
I'm not sure what you're doing on a forum for a subject which can't be proven then?  :)  ;)

I thought you didn't like debating. :-P :wink: :roll:
I get bitten by the debate-bug once in a blue moon.  hehe

Anyway, I'm not debating right now so much as just thinking out loud.  :)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 17, 2017, 16:12:43
I would think most dead humans would be meeting with loved ones they knew while alive , and they would want to get on with there after life .There would not much room for any racism .I guess there could be a few hard core Archie Bunker types out there .


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: grrla on March 17, 2017, 21:24:42
If you can be brought BACK to life... then you weren't "dead".  ;)
I'm not sure what you're doing on a forum for a subject which can't be proven then?  :)  ;)

From what I have read , many projectors did prove the realness of APs to themself


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 18, 2017, 00:17:55
On o.b.e. proof , Robert Monroe would visit people he knew while out of body . Then ask them later what they were doing .  There was a British M.P. ( late 1800 or early 1900s ) that was sick in bed but cast his vote in the house of commons while in his astral body .  If  one comes back from the dead with visions of the after life , or other astral realms , that is a n.d.e.  How one intereptes the event will be with in there belief system .  Two people can see some thing in the sky .  One person sees a u.f.o. the other sees Mary , mother of Jesus .  A third person might see some quite different . 


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 18, 2017, 01:54:41
I would think most dead humans would be meeting with loved ones they knew while alive , and they would want to get on with there after life .There would not much room for any racism .I guess there could be a few hard core Archie Bunker types out there .
Ooooooh... someone just dated themselves.  ;)

From what I have read , many projectors did prove the realness of APs to themself
That's the easy part.  Most of us here have proven the existence of this stuff to ourselves.  
The trick (and a useless one at that) is proving it to someone who hasn't already experienced it.

"Yup, you can leave your body and fly around the universe!  REALLY!!"  :)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on March 18, 2017, 01:56:08
When I die I want to be greeted by aliens with Jesus on the side smoking something way better than marijuana out of a bong.  :lol: Then I want to trip balls with them and after the come down we'll be talking about when we're going to come back to earth to save humanity. :lol:

Oh i need a good laugh right now I've been dragging all day.  :roll:


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on March 18, 2017, 01:57:48
When I die I want to be greeted by aliens with Jesus on the side smoking something way better than marijuana out of a bong.  :lol: Then I want to trip balls with them and after the come down we'll be talking about when we're going to come back to earth to save humanity. :lol:

Oh i need a good laugh right now I've been dragging all day.  :roll:
What happens if you just cease to exist and just re-join the one?


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Stillwater on March 18, 2017, 08:29:45
If we experience only one personality ever, then what amount of knowledge will we gain. I am not talking reincarnation only in the physical, but in many other dimensions. Lets not separate what we call physical and all other levels of existence regardless of thought responsiveness. What knowledge will a baby who lives a few hours only will receive? Or the fruit fly, LOL. Think about it.
Individual spirits will always have personalities no matter where they are. It's a part of the multiversal existence. If you only decide to merge completely with the source and become one with everything, then you will lose your personality, but then there will be no more learning. The reason the source spread as endless personalities is to continue growing and expanding. Otherwise there will be just one static ball of energy :)

I don't think we loose our personality immediately after death. If it was so, when we project there will be no interactions with different entities. They do have personalities, right? Many of us have done retrievals, and the spirits trapped still retained their personalities, fears, beliefs, that's why they were trapped. Also, we as the personalities we know currently exist simultaneously in many many levels.

Here is a perspective:

When people talk about biological evolution, they often speak as though animals that evolved later are more advanced, or better adapted. They speak as though biological evolution has a purpose, or a goal, and that by evolving, animals are getting closer to that goal. The scientific truth of it seems closer to being that animals are merely changing over time, and that evolution is driven by mutations making some individuals more likely to survive and pass on their genetics, because those mutations made those individuals more competent at working and surviving a certain niche. So in the case of evolution, the misconception is that there is a purpose, and the reality is that it is merely an emergent process happening in the physical system.

I'd say something similar may be happening with respect to a life a being experiences. Who is to say there ever was a purpose? And if there is, why does that purpose have to be cumulative? Maybe it is a one shot and you're done thing. Maybe the life the fruit fly lived isn't helping a "higher self" grow to the point where they can experience the duck life. Maybe the fruit fly life was its own goal.

Clearly, if the purpose was to gain human-type experiences which we judge to be of quality, this universe and planet are VERY poorly setup for that. If I was an alien being evaluating what divine purpose the earth might serve, I would reason it must be a place to experience insect and oceanic arthropod life. Compared to all of them, human life is a very small sideshow. There are probably tens of billions of insects and other arthropods for every single human life here. This is really their show. So I'd reason if a "Source being" was interested in anything here, they wanted to find out what it was like to be a krill shrimp a millimeter across, since that is overwhelmingly what is happening over here.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on March 19, 2017, 15:11:41
W. Bulhman has a number of videos on you tube .  Many of them are interviews where he is talking about  people in there after life .  They will go to parts of the astral plane and join people of the same beliefs ..  I have this image of a group of Archie Bunkers ( yes I did watch the show as a kid )  aruging  with each other . 
One of many
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3AxkbjNwts


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Nameless on March 20, 2017, 14:54:00
This has been a great conversation. I know I haven't been here much, my apologies.

I really like what Stillwater had to say. Ive often asked myself what makes people think we are all that? It is highly possible and very likely we are just a minor part of all that. By evolutionary standards being racist is a stubborn emotional response that humans seem not to be able to dump. I think that would automatically make US the lesser evolved of all the species if we are the last hold out on a dying concept. But then again, I am just rambling here and offering my thoughts rather than any hard-core beliefs.

I really liked Xanth's post too demonstrating the tub of water. Each dip in the tub would clearly show that we CAN bring back many memories that truly were NOT part of our own experience but we may remember it well due to that one drop of someone else's experience. Multiple drops = multiple past life experiences. This subject confounds me as well as with all the combined exp I have had it seems I would be drawn to the idea of past lives but I'm not.

But I have tapped into past lives, I've just never been sure they were mine or just a part of my awareness. So, did I live them or didn't I, your guess is as good as mine.

Are there racist over there in the NP? Good question and the only answer I have for you is that that fully depends on how evolved (spiritually) those others you meet in the NP are themselves. Not every one you meet there is on a 'spiritual path', many have no clue they are even there and many more are only there temporarily (as in dreaming) so this particular question is the last thing on their minds. Many are not even lucid over there and those that are have bigger fish to fry.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: mcdwg on April 03, 2017, 06:07:52
This is just my opinion but I don't believe in past lives since as I understand it there is no time beyond the physical, all lives are happening at once; having said that.  I often think about Monroe and one of his students, Bruce Moen that describe a higher self being in charge of multiple personalities; for example Monroe describes this guide from the future and in the end it's revealed that it's himself or you could say another personality but still part of a higher self, Bruce Moen describes a disk having multiple personalities living on earth.  So a higher self with multiple personalities living their lives across the universe, experiencing limitation which they can't in the non-physical. 

A rich person, a poor person, a disabled, an athlete, an abused person, and the list goes on and on just for the purpose of experiencing not learning anything but just experiencing, all these personalities being part of a higher self, so in reality all these personalities are actually one or the same, with individual experiences.

Nothing to learn here but just to experience

My two cents


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on April 03, 2017, 12:26:16
Nothing to learn here but just to experience
Are you saying we don't have any kind of free will?


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: desert-rat on April 03, 2017, 15:15:41
Time is real hear on the earth plane .  It is my understanding that it does not exzist or is different out side the earth plane .  
P.S. I mis read a post , I will think up a proper responce to free will , then post it . 


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Subtle Traveler on April 03, 2017, 21:26:13

Nothing to learn here but just to experience

My two cents

I have a 'nickel' that I can add to this ... I have also mentioned this before here ...

Yes, we are NOT here to learn ... or to redeem ... or to somehow deal with past karma (mistakes) ... we are here for the joy of the expansion of consciousness ... calling this 'experience' (as you have above) is a decent way of pointing to this. Generally ... each human on this planet is here to expand conscious experience. It is that simple.

There is no question of 'choice' in that. There is always choice. In fact, our choices of this human lifetime go back to the original choice we made come here for expansion.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: LightBeam on April 03, 2017, 21:51:33
I have a 'nickel' that I can add to this ... I have also mentioned this before here ...

Yes, we are NOT here to learn ... or to redeem ... or to somehow deal with past karma (mistakes) ... we are here for the joy of the expansion of consciousness ... calling this 'experience' (as you have above) is a decent way of pointing to this. Generally ... each human on this planet is here to expand conscious experience. It is that simple.

There is no question of 'choice' in that. There is always choice. In fact, our choices of this human lifetime go back to the original choice we made come here for expansion.



Actually, through experience you ALWAYS learn something whether you realize it or not, whether you want to or don't. How does one's consciousness expand? I think through adding knowledge through experience. So to me the ultimate purpose of spirit individuality is learning through various experiences. I have gone through this many times. When I suddenly realize why something is happening to me over and over again, it stops, there is no need anymore, because I have learned a certain lesson. And this realization and the knowledge is what expands my spirit. So, the element of learning is attached so to speak to the experience.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: mcdwg on April 04, 2017, 01:24:53
Are you saying we don't have any kind of free will?

It's all about free will, in our experiences, the choices we make as individuals or mass consciousness.


Actually, through experience you ALWAYS learn something whether you realize it or not, whether you want to or don't. How does one's consciousness expand? I think through adding knowledge through experience. So to me the ultimate purpose of spirit individuality is learning through various experiences.

I like this quote from "Conversations with God"

“Life (as you call it) is an opportunity for you to know experientially what you already know conceptually. You need learn nothing to do this. You need merely remember what you already know, and act on it. ”   Conversations with God

I'm still kind of on the fence whether we learn anything or not but I would like to think we don't because if we do then we're in this constant struggle to find out what it is that we need to learn instead just enjoying the time here, but who knows.





Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on April 04, 2017, 01:29:11
It's all about free will, in our experiences, the choices we make as individuals or mass consciousness.
I'd like to think that we have free will but in my experience I have serious doubts about it. I mean when do we do something that doesn't have a feeling attached to it? People talk about free will as if it's so easy, when I think of free will I think of bending the laws of physics in your favor which isn't easy by any stretch of the imagination.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Subtle Traveler on April 04, 2017, 02:44:03

Actually, through experience you ALWAYS learn something whether you realize it or not, whether you want to or don't. How does one's consciousness expand? I think through adding knowledge through experience. So to me the ultimate purpose of spirit individuality is learning through various experiences. I have gone through this many times. When I suddenly realize why something is happening to me over and over again, it stops, there is no need anymore, because I have learned a certain lesson. And this realization and the knowledge is what expands my spirit. So, the element of learning is attached so to speak to the experience.

NEVER stated that we do not learn ... I held forth that we are not here (as non-physical beings in a human body) in the physical to learn ... our broader purpose for being here is to participate in the expansion of Consciousness.

Just being extended here from the non-physical as a human (e.g., experience) is enough ... it's not about doing (e.g., like gaining knowledge) ... it's about being (e.g., Consciousness extended here as human) ... we are bringing forth Conscious being ... that's the expansion.

And ... this is the 'leading edge' of Conscious expansion ... not some bottom up experience for the unlearned OR near-do-well's needing to take care of some past karma OR an original sinner needing salvation.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Astral Potato on May 27, 2017, 05:59:35
I guess the only thing I can add in here is my own belief as none of us really know.

I have been working with a belief which I wish to explore over time, it is that the consciousness is me, but I am not the consciousness. So in a way I am you and you are me, but at the same time we are still ourselves.

So in that respect, I believe that there can be individual prejudices in the astral. Because while we are all part of the consciousness, we are not the same. Which leads me to believe that the beings we see in the astral could also be separate parts of the consciousness, just as we are.


@Xanth, thinking all the water in the tub is the same. I find this offensive on behalf of water, which is part of me.  :-P


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: PlasmaAstralProjection on May 27, 2017, 17:37:13
I guess the only thing I can add in here is my own belief as none of us really know.

I have been working with a belief which I wish to explore over time, it is that the consciousness is me, but I am not the consciousness. So in a way I am you and you are me, but at the same time we are still ourselves.

So in that respect, I believe that there can be individual prejudices in the astral. Because while we are all part of the consciousness, we are not the same. Which leads me to believe that the beings we see in the astral could also be separate parts of the consciousness, just as we are.
Thanks for chiming in. And I agree that we are consciousness but consciousness isn't necessarily us.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Subtle Traveler on May 27, 2017, 18:19:20
I guess the only thing I can add in here is my own belief as none of us really know.

I have been working with a belief which I wish to explore over time, it is that the consciousness is me, but I am not the consciousness. So in a way I am you and you are me, but at the same time we are still ourselves.

So in that respect, I believe that there can be individual prejudices in the astral. Because while we are all part of the consciousness, we are not the same. Which leads me to believe that the beings we see in the astral could also be separate parts of the consciousness, just as we are.


Hi Astral Potato ... I think you are closer to your answer than you realize ... don't mistakenly toss everything into the "sea of relativism" (e.g., none of us can know). And, don't let your claim that "none of us can know" become a belief, because that then becomes a barrier to your experiencing physical existence.

We can "know", because we can have experiences. An inner knowing is part of our nature, and it is the non-physical part of us (not the human). It takes some "tuning" to hear this inner voice, but it is possible. I generally cannot experience mine in clarity without regular meditation, and at least a focus 10 state. Meditation reduces the resistance to the very natural relationship with our non-physical inner being (inner voice). Meditation is ESSENTIAL to this clarity (knowing) from my own experience. This is why I often speak up boldly here about meditation as a practice.

We are not here to have OBE's ... we are here to extend from and work with our inner guidance ... to have co-created experiences as we extend from our non-physical inner being ... if OBE's are one of those experiences, then that's fine. However, it is NOT why we are here (and many here on the AP forum end up distorting that).

Part of the reason that you are having difficulty with getting your answer is that the context of your questions is lacking. If you re-work the context of your question (e.g., about being consciousness), then you can get a better answer. Essentially, the better question ... the better answer.

The short answer to your question is that we are BOTH a community (which would take too long to describe here) and an individual (human). This being (community and perceived individual) is all one thing (not separate). The community is basically the non-physical part of us (e.g., what you are calling consciousness) and the individual is the human part. It depends where your focus is. So here on the forum you are focused on being the human part of yourself. In meditation or an OBE we can sometimes perceive self closer to the community part of us. This is one of the reasons that guides or helpers suddenly show up in our OBE's or we may receive guidance during meditation.

Also (since it has been discussed ad nauseum here), there is not a "traditional reincarnation". We certainly become our choices here in the physical, but the karma portion of that is a human concept based generally on fear about the imbalances we experience (e.g., not a non-physical or community idea). Human karma is generally not accurate to the total reality. As physical humans, we see life in time slices (moment to moment) and separate, while for our non-physical inner being a moment may be 30 years (e.g., no delineated time experience) and not separate from consciousness. This is how an idea like "karma" becomes distorted by physical humans.

Hope this is helpful to your own travels.

P.S. I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you are interested in lucid dreaming, I can highly recommend reading Robert Waggoner. His book with Carolyn McCready is basic but excellent (less than $10 on a Kindle).


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: MarsZM on August 12, 2017, 08:58:20
Plasma I actually remember this interview. I think I know exactly what you are talking about and when he said it.... hehe. I don't think people get sharp all of a sudden when they drop dead. Just to answer your question plain and simple I think yes absolutely.
   I'll bet you there are racist entities that aren't human too. It's a crowded universe.


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: Xanth on August 13, 2017, 22:11:08
@Xanth, thinking all the water in the tub is the same. I find this offensive on behalf of water, which is part of me.  :-P
I just read this now. LoL

Personally, I pee in the tub.  So meh.  ;)


Title: Re: Is there racists in the astral?
Post by: baro-san on August 14, 2017, 01:08:18
What we believe limits both who / what we are, and who / what w'll be.