The Astral Pulse

Integral Philosophy => Welcome to Integral Philosophy! => Topic started by: floriferous on January 10, 2022, 12:53:16



Title: Do human beings have consciousness?
Post by: floriferous on January 10, 2022, 12:53:16
In my contemplations this came to me on the subject…

Are you aware of your thoughts?

What is this 'you' that is aware of the thoughts?

Science would say the 'brain'. The science community tells us that the brain is the source of awareness/consciousness. This unfounded principle is often the starting point for many forays into trying to understand awareness.

However, this presumption can be swept away as illogical in one very simple exploration.

Whatever is the source of awareness can not also be dependent upon awareness first for its own existence.

To explain - the scent of a flower requires the presence of awareness first to render its smell knowable in your experience.

The sight of a sunset requires the presence of awareness first to render the sight knowable.

And, the human body/mind/brain also requires the presence of awareness first to render it knowable in your experience.

So, if the existence of the brain (that which is supposedly the source of awareness) also requires the presence of awareness first to render it knowable it can not also be the source of awareness.

It can not be the source and simultaneously be entirely dependent upon that which it creates for its own sense of existence.

Therefore, the source of awareness can only be something that has no objective (object-like) qualities (because all objects require awareness first and foremost). Only awareness itself fits this criteria.

So, with this simple understanding in mind…

No human being has awareness because objects don't have awareness. Only awareness has awareness. We are all that same one awareness (people often present this last sentiment a lot but without explanation of why this is so).

The mind is presenting to us the illusion of separate awarenesses within all these human body's but the mind is really more like a small magnifying glass placed on the dimensionless field of awareness giving the impression of a small contracted individual person living with its own personal consciousness. Peel back the layers of thought that create the fiction and only one thing remains.

Now ask yourself again…

Are you aware of your thoughts?

What is this 'you' that is aware of the thoughts?



Title: Re: Do human beings have consciousness?
Post by: Lumaza on January 10, 2022, 21:54:53
 I have always seen it in these simple terms. It's all a perfect system. That is, when all "cogs" are in sync with each other.
 The Body is the mechanics. (Body)
 The Brain is the Interface. (Mind)
 Consciousness is the "Orchestrator".  (Spirit)

 Each one of these has it's own degree or level of awareness. The Body being the "Puppet" doesn't think. The Brain is the User Interface, so it can only use or utilize the level of "programming " it was given.  Consciousness would then be the "Puppeteer" and would control the show. It's message or direction would still have to passed and given through the Interface and as we see, this is where things can go awry. As the "go between", the Interface also receives input/signals from it's conditioning, teachings, and sometimes "brainwashing" of the physical side or physical ruleset as well.

 Does that answer your question? Probably not, lol? But that was the only thought I was aware of after reading your post above!  :-D


Title: Re: Do human beings have consciousness?
Post by: floriferous on January 11, 2022, 00:26:21
I have always seen it in these simple terms. It's all a perfect system. That is, when all "cogs" are in sync with each other.
 The Body is the mechanics. (Body)
 The Brain is the Interface. (Mind)
 Consciousness is the "Orchestrator".  (Spirit)

 Each one of these has it's own degree or level of awareness. The Body being the "Puppet" doesn't think. The Brain is the User Interface, so it can only use or utilize the level of "programming " it was given.  Consciousness would then be the "Puppeteer" and would control the show. It's message or direction would still have to passed and given through the Interface and as we see, this is where things can go awry. As the "go between", the Interface also receives input/signals from it's conditioning, teachings, and sometimes "brainwashing" of the physical side or physical ruleset as well.

 Does that answer your question? Probably not, lol? But that was the only thought I was aware of after reading your post above!  :-D

You're right - that wasn't where I was heading with it but you still bring up interesting points. I agree with everything  you say apart from I would say consciousness runs the show but doesn't control it. I feel it allows all experience to be exactly as it is without bias or preference. I don't think it needs to direct experience a particular way because only thought sees problems in experience and therefore a need to control and resist what is.



Title: Re: Do human beings have consciousness?
Post by: Lumaza on January 11, 2022, 20:43:15
You're right - that wasn't where I was heading with it but you still bring up interesting points. I agree with everything  you say apart from I would say consciousness runs the show but doesn't control it. I feel it allows all experience to be exactly as it is without bias or preference. I don't think it needs to direct experience a particular way because only thought sees problems in experience and therefore a need to control and resist what is.


I agree! That's why it's so important to be "balanced". Mind, Body and Spirit in at least some form of semblance and sync with one another. A balanced life is a harmonious one as well. That seems to be why we see all the chaos in the World that we see today. The natural order of things and balance is completely thrown off at the moment. The "ship" better get righted soon. Things will continue to get worse if it doesn't. Even the "collective consciousness" seems to be in a state of disarray. That's never a good thing!  :-o :roll: Sooner or later balance will be restored. Unfortunately, our most profound lessons seem to come through our most trying times. That seems to be the way we learn. This is the way that "change" occurs.

 All my friends, that I consider "in the know", seem to be blocked from their own NP explorations at the moment. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many distractions today.


Title: Re: Do human beings have consciousness?
Post by: Nameless on January 19, 2022, 23:54:46
I have to agree with what you said floriferous, the brain, body is not 'us'.  Although I do not subscribe to the idea that we are all one consciousness. I feel on a deep level that there are many different types or types 'of' consciousness of which humanity interacts with but one.


Title: Re: Do human beings have consciousness?
Post by: floriferous on January 21, 2022, 12:58:58
I have to agree with what you said floriferous, the brain, body is not 'us'.  Although I do not subscribe to the idea that we are all one consciousness. I feel on a deep level that there are many different types or types 'of' consciousness of which humanity interacts with but one.

Your disagreeing with my one point and my disagreeing with one of Lumazas points in itself raises an interesting point of discussion...

Ultimately, regardless of the question being asked, we don't truly know the answer. Through the lens of the mind we can only speculate. You might say experience is an unfathomable mystery with more depth to it than our simple labels and descriptions could ever hope to convey.

Therefore, to label experience as a mystery allows you to let go of old beliefs and not form new ones which is infact a far greater position to be in than swapping old beliefs for new ones in the hope the new ones are better beliefs - they are still just beliefs and not reality.

In allowing the mystery of what is to encompass you, you can completely surrender old beliefs and not be weighed down with new (seemingly better) ones.

After all, the belief that I now have a better answer to a question than I did before is really just an act of appeasing a mind desperately in search of itself.

How are we going to see ourselves if we just bury ourselves in new beliefs? In a way this dillusional trap is worse becasue we now think we are spiritually more evolved with these seemingly better beliefs so we hold onto them even tighter. I used to be a Christian but now I believe in Buddhism or Sufism...it doesn't matter what we exchange our beliefs for - they are still beliefs and only ever will be no matter how much we search because the searching is only ever happening through the interpretive lens of the mind which can never know reality as it is.

It is something we all do but perhaps should investigate more.