The Astral Pulse

Metaphysics => Welcome to Metaphysics! => Topic started by: Risu no Kairu on June 19, 2003, 08:25:43



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 19, 2003, 08:25:43
Wow, that's a long post, but full of information! It's very interesting. Can you only ask no/yes question? You can't make some sort of ouija board set up where it points to certain letters/numbers?

This pendulum can be made out of anything, you say?

Hmmm. It sounds interesting. Maybe I'll try it.

Thanks for the information.

—Kyle of the Squirrel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 19, 2003, 09:40:21
Hello Kyle,

In response to your post - The Pendulum can do quite a number of things, pretty soon after becoming accoustomed to its correct methods of operation.  However, I wanted to concentrate in that initial introduction on the basics which are important to grasp - because, if you haven't got them then even the slightly more complex operations can result in errors, when really the techniquques that can be learned later will be very valuable - but only, of course, if they are used properly and therefore give correct results.  In addition, I didn't want to make the post in any way confusing, just straightforward, and certainly not longer than was practicable.

The idea you mention - that of pointing to letters of the alphabet in turn, is one of several that can be utilized.  And I give brief details of a couple of such accurate methods below that can be usefully employed with the Pendulum.....

1.
You can write out the alphabet on a piece of paper, with a certain number of letters to each line (that makes it easier to use in practice).  For example:
A B C D E F G H I J
K L M N O P Q R S T
U V W X Y Z.

The method is to sit at a table with a pencil, say, as a pointer (and that method also can be used for finding by Map Divination).

You simply hold a pencil in your left hand and the Pendulum in your  right hand (which needs to be off-centre to the body, and hence not ideal for the beginner at first,because one needs to have become acclimatized to doing it naturally and knowing whether the Pendulum is too far off-centre to give accurate results for your level of skill in using it).

Next, look at your layout, think your intention (that you'll point to a row to see if the letter is in there, and then along the row to each if it is on that line)

Then all you have to do is point to a row (there are only 2 in my example layout here, and it is more than likely any given letter will be in one of those two rows, rather than the end letters of the alphabet - unless you're Russian, like me).  Keep your eye on the Pendulum for a 'yes' as you move the pointer.  Simple as that.

2.
A variation on the above is to ask how many letters in the word to be spelled out to you ("Are there more than 5 letters in the word ?..."Less than 10 ?" - and you soon narrow it down).  this ensures you are only expecting so many letters.  You can take this method a stage further, by organizing it like a "Hangman" game, with dashes to represent the required number of letters.  And of course you can 'guess' the vowels first, one by one.....which may give you a good clue as to the remaining letters ot ask, while pointing, "will this letter be..." (whatever).  There are other methods that can be devised - one being the 'binary' method with the letters:  "Is it greater than...." (whatever)......"Is it less than....." (whatever), and so on, till you get the letter, which will always be obtained in the least number of 'tries' this way.

Bearing in mind, it does not work like the ouija board, only the first method would seem to be useful anyway, for general purpose.  

But, since the use of the Pendulum most often leds on to Telepathy, where you will hear the letter - and in fact the whole word! - in your head the more you become attuned to working with the Pendulum, then such methods become entirely redundant, as your skill improves.

the bottom line is, that the Pendulum is not just a 'Lookup Service', it is an aid to further 'spiritual' development - and the guides will in every way assist towards that end in teaching you.

There are very simple techniques for many other things - such as using the Pendulum as a compass if you are lost, and even to indicate what turning you should take if you are walking along an unfamiliar  road lost.  It can also bet used as a pipe or wiring detector (I' ve used it for that when an electrician's electronic tester failed to work in a house rewire he was doing for me - and he just traced out where my left finger pointed - but I would suggest some  skill be aquired, and the basics learned thoroughly, due to the need for accuracy, before going on to such as those and the many other advanced things that can be done with the Pendulum.

And yes, in answer to your other query, the Pendulum can be made out of anything which is suitable for the purpose.

Hope this has been of help.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 19, 2003, 10:40:05

 
MAYATNIK: The thought came to me your post would be a good one to upload to the Astral Pulse library. I found your post an interesting read. I like to tinker with mechanical devices and have quite a collection of old machine nuts. So I'm going to tie one to a piece of string and give it a go.

Yours,
Frank
 


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on June 19, 2003, 11:19:13
An interesting post to be sure! I might be tempted to try this out. I have actually used ouja boards before, a few of us used to get together on some nights when I was younger.

I have found from our experiments that the ouja system is far too unreliable. It seems to work by operating from the collective will of everyone involved (that's why it seems to know things) and is'nt really a proper entity or 'spirit' as such.

 Although we never had any problems with doing this, I don't find it too hard to imagine that it could trigger side effects such as telekenisis or other effects, as the mind is a powerful tool and if you combine several together it is potentially out of the individual's control, although as I said, we never had any problems, but perhaps if one of the participents was unstable in some way then that might trigger negative effects. Still, I recomend it for interests sake.

This is where the pendulum comes in, as it may be far more reliable. With ouji it is almost always the case that it is the collective will of everyone involved that is being 'contacted' although I think it might just be possible on very rare occasions to contact a proper being.

The pendulum sounds more reliable as there is only one spoke in the works...you, rather than four of five people all adding their own input into the proceedings!

I think we should all give it a go and see what happens!

Regards,
Douglas



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 19, 2003, 11:28:34
I notice you keep saying hold it in your right hand.

Now, is this required, or can I hold it in my left hand, where things are more comfortable? Afterall, I'm a southpaw, so I tend to do things in a mirrored way.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Mirador on June 19, 2003, 13:13:47
First, I express my most sincere appreciation for Mayatnik's posting. I would have payed good money for all the practical advise I've learned from Mayatnik in this field. And it's all free here in Astral Pulse!
Mayatnik, if you ever decide to publish on this topic, I am most willing to translate your works into Spanish (that's what I do professionally, to make 'ends meet').
Now, my one and only experience with the 'Pendulum'.
It happened many years ago, when an old friend dropped by, and asked me to be part of ruse on an elderly couple who did not want to sell a tract of land to him. My friend told me that he had learned that the railroad company was planning to extend their rail network through the vecinity of that land, and that the land would appreciate in value accordingly. I asked him how I could help him, and he said that since he knew I delved in things esoteric and occult, he had a plan to restle the land from the old foggies. He told me that the excuse the elderly couple had for not selling their land was that there was an ancient treasure burried there. My friend told me that my part was to visit the couple and act like I was an expert diviner. He told me he had already mentioned the couple about me, and that I should dress all in white and act very mysterious, and that I should ask permission to examine the land, and after that explain to the elderly couple that there was no treasure buried there. I asked my friend how was I to examine the land, and that's when he introduced me to the concept of the Pendulum. He even had a Pendulum for me, a bronce curtain accessory attached to a string. Since I owed him many favors, I agreed to go along with his plan.
My friend picked me up the next Sunday, and we drove about two and a half hours out of town to the elderly couple's home. After the necessary introductions, explanations and politeness, I followed my friends preconcieved plan, and asked the couple if I could check their land for hidden treasure. Then they walked me to the center of a one hectare plot of land next to their house. A faint drizzle started to fall, and I told my friend and the old couple to leave me alone and go back to the house, that as soon as I had finished I would report back to them. The drizzle picked up, and now I was  soaked in rain. I thought there goes my impecable white suite, and sat on the moist ground. When I could see nobody around, a strange sad mood overcame me, and I lost complete interest in my friends project. I fiddled nervously with the Pendulum but placed it back in my jacket pocket. Then I decided to do one of my ritual (which I use for healing, and also to keep out of trouble), and asked for help from the 'Relevant Authorities'. At that moment, a saw a naked man running outside of the perimeter of the land. The spectacle was fascinating but after awhile I thought it was distracting me from my task. And then I saw, although no physical superficial signs, that the land had been dug up in many places, and a shimmery spot about 25 meters away from me, that made me stand up and walk over to it. At that spot I saw what appeared to be the remains of a brick foundation for a small shed. I lost track of time, and my friend came searching for me and took me by the arm to the old couple's house. They stared at me, wide eyed, expecting me to talk. And before I could gather any coherent thought to say anything, I found myself saying that 'the naked crazy guy didn't let me perform my work, but that there was something to be investigated under the foundation that was once the small shed'. At that moment, the old couple started to cry in unison, and very defensively told me, that their son had not died there, that they only locked him in the shed to keep him out of trouble. I didn't answer them, my friend and I walked out and drove away, since we know to respect a burial place.

Mirador


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 19, 2003, 13:32:53
Well, I just tried this. And it works. I kept looking to see if my hand was even slightly moving to create the effect. But I couldn't perceive a thing. I also didn't want 'mental' thought to play a part in it. So when I asked a question, I would do my best to quiet my mind so as to unintentionally influence the responses.

Some of the answers were what I expected, others I was a bit disappointed to see. But I guess that just means that I probably wasn't influencing them -- or they probably all would have been what I wanted to see.

Thanks so much for the description!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 19, 2003, 14:28:22
RISU –
It’s funny you should say you’re a “southpaw” because so am I (for writing at least – though I play guitar in the conventional way, "right handed" as it's termed - which seems a funny description to me, incidentally, because all the fingering action is going on in my left hand, all very comfortable so I don't know how true 'right-handed people go on with it!),  The reason I repeatedly mentioned the right hand is because a large number of people subconsciously associate ‘right’ with ‘good’, and I’m trying to avoid any possibility of negative conditioning rather than positive reinforcement in thinking, becoming a subconscious  turn-off for anyone even before they’ve tried the Pendulum – and this illustrates yet another point.

In point of fact, it will not affect the Pendulum in the slightest, whichever hand it is held in – although the person may be affected in either from it being uncomfortable in that hand (or maybe they only have one hand), or should they wish to write with their ‘normal’ writing hand - maybe to make notes of the Q’s and Y/N responses at the same time, for convenience.  It also raises another point I didn’t mention in my introduction to the Pendulum….. that, if you put the Pendulum down (say, to write something) and then pick it up again, it is important to leave a couple of second after picking it up before asking a further question; this is because there has to be a ‘settling time’ - during which the Pendulum will be observed to make a little ‘twirl’ – you can regard this as the equivalent of ‘logging on’ and in that brief but necessary time the Pendulum ‘identifies’ the user, and in fact by this means knows everything about them.  Without leaving this short pause before resuming questions after picking up the Pendulum there is the small possibility that not all of that first question will be fully ‘understood’, in the same way that a computer may not pick up all that is in the buffer when initializing, to put it over-simply.  So, leave 2 seconds after picking up and if you’d put it down in the middle of a session and then resume.

If what I’ve just said sounds like I’m talking about a computer, then I’m afraid that – as they say – the ‘gaff is blown’ (I was going to leave the following revalation originally until another appropriate post); the Pendulum does indeed normally connect to an Astral computer of such sophistication that it can’t be imagined.  I say, ‘normally’ beause when Dowsers use the Pendulum it works automatically through the Astral Computer.  In the case of such as this site, it being a Spiritual site, the guides are present (as I said) and actually ‘monitor’, so they are able to by-pass the automatic functionality of their Astral Computer at any time. Nevertheless, it is good working-practice to allow that brief time.  Strangely enough, considering the curiosity of the human species, no-one in the Dowsing fraternity has ever thought to ask the Pendulum, “Are you a computer?”  But, it is easily verified by anyone asking that question….. and they will get the answer, “YES”.

GANDALF –
Some good objective logical observations there, in concluding that the Pendulum has the propensity for greater reliability.  I can tell you that it is extremely reliable – in fact, utterly reliable given the constraints that the guides impose in their teaching methods, where they will occasionally throw a wrong answer into the works so to speak in order to test that person – and this is indeed done from time to time for a person’s inner-development to see if they will ‘fall for it’; this prevents the person getting carried away with ego or other things that the guide detects in the person, or beginning to creep in (which is why I say always, double-check your answer if you are uncertain, because it just might be a ‘test’.   While I know it works from much experience (and rapport with my guide too), I can’t expect you, or anyone else to accept what I say on face value, because that would be exhibiting ‘blind faith’ – and that is not sensible or reasonable, but your ‘logical’ assessment points towards the benefits you feel may be obtained by giving the Pendulum a try.

Your suggestion, <“I think we should all give it a go and see what happens!”> would have profound benefits, in my experience.  I’m not talking here of ‘prooving’ it works – that has been well established with Dowsing for centuries, and my guides ‘advanced’ methods presented here are even more definitive.  No, what comes to my mind here, is the fact that I know quite a number of people I’ve taught who are happy to tell me their findings (which I know correlate with others) but they have a great reluctance to post or otherwise make public what the Pendulum has told them about things in general – and by the making public of people’s ‘findings’ of Truth via the Pendulum there can be a paradigm shift in confidence towards using it is not only a ‘tool’ for Truth but also enabling the guides to work better for our Spiritual Development because of the open interaction obtained.  So, if all members can “give it a go” we could organize some kind of thread that would compare and examine these findings (if a member wished to provide input from their use of the Pendulum and wished to remain anonymous then I feel that would be to the greater good, although by attaching their name to what they’d found in their Q/A session it can greatly enhance the inner development of everyone.  I also wonder to what extent, given a device that has the capability of giving Truth, just how much the world really would welcome that Truth, especially if it were to by common correlation shatter the ingrained perceived ‘security’ of the already ‘known’  established ‘norm’, by for example pointing to events in history that were assumed for so long to be True?   I’m simply putting forward my thoughts on this, as well as those of my guide.  But, perhaps members would like to make some suggestion on these points?  I feel that would be constructive.

FRANK –
You write < “MAYATNIK: The thought came to me your post would be a good one to upload to the Astral Pulse library.” >
It would seem, in view of what GANDALF has suggested – for all to give it a go – that a place where the <Pendulum Instructions> could be found easily (should it slip down the threads) is a good idea.  I was thinking that, if it became pupular with members, of inserting a hyperlink somewhere to access it – but your suggestion of placing it in the library would certainly make it accessible.  The only trouble I have is that, although I can just about cope with the technicalities of clicking on the right buttons to submit a post in the ordinary way, I have to confess I am a dunce when it comes to anything beyond that – and, having had a quick look at the library page, I’m inclined to shout “Help Frank – anybody!” and would appreciate help in ‘delivering’ the parcel to that destination.  Maybe I could email you on that point, for you to render advice, or even a helping hand, to this unfortunate mortal – or any other kind soul that understands such intricacies that are beyond me.

NOVICE –
Thank you for confirming that the Pendulum works, and especially the balanced way you tried to go about your Q/A session.   I wonder, reading your post, did you try any oblique questioning to see if the answers differed ?  Or whether you were able to get any more ‘background’ to the answers by asking further questions on those?

MIRADOR –
Thank you for your appreciaton.  You go on to say, <”I would have payed good money for all the practical advise I've learned from Mayatnik in this field. And it's all free here in Astral Pulse!

Mayatnik, if you ever decide to publish on this topic, I am most willing to translate your works into Spanish.”>

Firstly, I have dedicated my life to doing the channeling I’ve been asked to do, and it is ‘for free’ because my guide wants the people to know – not just those who browse the bookshops or have the money  to pay for such.  that is why I’m here on the Astral Pulse, for members and guests, and my appreciation goes to the Administrator and Moderators especially – as well as all those who input on this remarkable site – because without it there would be no ‘slot’ to place this channeled material that is being relayed through me at this time.

My guide tells me, that adequate provision is made by the Higher Realms for each country at this time, with channelers in place to relay information to their own culture – which is how the guides want it to be, for each to identify with what is being presented and which is being suitably directed to those areas of the world in the way needed.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 19, 2003, 14:55:58
Well, I've actually been asking questions (off and on) for over an hour now! (rolls eyes).

What I've found is that there is also 'emphasis' to some of the answers. Some answers are a slow and steady swing. Others are much larger, as if emphasizing the answer. And it will go back and forth - so the large swing isn't continuous. I've also found some questions it will stop moving and just 'sit' there. I'll wait. And then re-phrase the question with no additional luck. Then I'll ask "Can I ask this question" or "can I ask about ....." And then I"ll usually get a No answer. Which is consistent with it not answering the question yes or no.

Some of the answers suprised me. Because they aren't what I expected, nor what I 'felt' they should be. But I continued with follow-up questions and discovered there are reasons for them. And those answers do make sense now that I understand the reasons.

All this to say that you should definately try this and be very open. I've begun to close my eyes as I ask the question and try to remain completely unattached to the asnwer. But if, as in the case described above, I'm surprised by the asnwer, I find myself asking the follow up questions and watching intently for the answers -- even though I'm disbelieving/confused by what I'm seeing. So it would appear that my mind isn't playing a part in the answers.

Thanks again for these instructions. They've proven very valuable to me in only a short time period!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: beav31is on June 19, 2003, 15:23:24
Holy crap thats too long. You'll get more readers if you condense info next time. From what I read, I see no reason why it couldnt work, other than the difficulty of telekinesis on objects as big as a key (but I have moved bigger), for whoever answers the questions.

Is it necessary to hold the pendulum? That might create false swings. Why not hang it from something that wont move?

Who moves it? How do you know its not you doing telekinesis? Or is that what you want? Your unconscious mind knows a lot more than conscious.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 19, 2003, 15:55:56

NOVICE,

Thank you for that very coherent and extremely valuable report on your Q/A session.

Your carefully noted observations are completely consistent with the type of Pendulum responses that can be expected - and which I have found to be the case on every occasion when pupils have had 'open' and receptive interaction in questioning and following up on answrs.
Members will be greatly helped by your presentation here, because they will be able to compare their results, and the general level of 'skill' in interpreting as a session goes on will improve as a result of having such a 'model'.  And as more reports are posted by members the storehouse of knowledge in this area will be invaluable.

As a teacher, it is all very well me 'demonstrating' and posting, say, sample sessions with explanations - but there is no substitue for interaction and trying it yourself.  From those first steps, much will be lerned not only by the individual, but by sharing thoughts and feeling too.

The inclusion of such descriptions as the 'emphasis' given to some swings, and others being 'slow and steady' are things for members to look out for and pick up 'feelings' - because in such movements, there is a degree of personality and natural emotion being transmitted with the answer; this is equivalent to body language, where you observe the person you're in conversation with and their nods and other body gestures that accompany a YES or NO speak far more than just those words alone where they to be received in a 'mechanical' way.  In this way, the guides train the Pendulum user, to gradually become more and more receptive on a deeper level, leading to Telepathy - total receptiveness, automatically and comfortably without effort.

The illustrations you give of those questions that 'froze' the Pendulum, and only elicited a response when the permission question is put is a clear indication of exactly what a user can expect on occasions when an area of 'privacy' is crossed.  So, it can be seen that there is a full monitoring of the questions and also the progress of the learning user is continuously assessed, and questions can, under those conditions especially, be expected to 'pop' into the user's head seemingly from nowhere (and that serves two purposes; one, being a means of redirecting the flow of questions, either down a particular track that the guide wants the person to investigate, or to prompt a change of subject maybe.  The other obvious purpose that members will be able to see is that when such a question 'pops' into the questioner's head it is Telepathy... you are 'receiving', and this will, over a period of time, be gently strengthened to a point where it will feel quite natural in a flow or sentences, and you'll be able to engage in full 'conversation'; at that stage the learning gets faster exponentially - because, in effect, it is just like sitting down on the settee with the guide who is teaching a new topic or perspective that day, and having the kind of 'rapport' that will make learning far beyond what can be achieved with the limitations of our human teaching methods, to impart such knowledge.

As your experiences grow in your Pendulum interaction you will find that the longer you can spend on a session the more variable the scope will be, so one hour is for me a very short while; but, obviously, it depends on the time available to the person - and the guide understands the practicalities of what can be done, so there is never any pushing.  What will emerge will be the feeling that the Pendulum is more of a 'companion' Often, as you begin to sense more, one with a sense of humour too when appropriate!  For me, after 8 yers of having a guide as such a teacher-companion, I can say that Karek is a great companion who really understands me.  But then, she knows me beter than I know myself - and yet she chose me, for which I am eternally grateful !

I look forward to reading more input, and hopefully a lively interaction between members as the Pendulum is explored.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 19, 2003, 16:58:10
Actually I have one question, which I think was posted previously. Is it necessary to hold the pendulum? I find that my arm gets tired. The length is 9 inches, and it needs to be held with the base equal to the chest, so my arm is bent and angled upwards the whole time.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 19, 2003, 18:33:09
quote:
Originally posted by Novice

Actually I have one question, which I think was posted previously. Is it necessary to hold the pendulum? I find that my arm gets tired. The length is 9 inches, and it needs to be held with the base equal to the chest, so my arm is bent and angled upwards the whole time.


It is necessary to actually hold the Pendulum, and what was suggested earlier up the thread by Beav will not work.  I understand where Beav is coming from with this, because many object can be moved by Telekenisis, and I have seen it done several times with a Pendulum that was not being held but was suspended from a doorframe.  The Pendulum, when moved by Telekenisis does not however function as a Pendulum - it simply moves.  those who are adept with Telekenesis can make it give a 'yes' movement by will-power, but the movement is always slow and slugghish to get started, and shows no 'character' either in its movement so is entirely impractical, and can not be consistently made to move in the required direction in any case - and what would be the point of projecting your will to an object when tha information isn't being transmitted in that manner.

The Pendulum moves by modulation of the electromagnetic field then interacting with the instrument and the movement is fully and dynamically responsive.  As a point of interest, when I am teaching, I have sometime had occasions when I've needed to actually move a person's Pendulum remotely (from where I am sitting usually about 4 feet away) and I simply 'tell' (by just thinking) the Pendulum to respond with a 'yes' or 'no' to show the kind of strong movement it is capable of when the pupil is more 'attuned' to it (if they are only causing a weak swing at first, because one of the inhibors of swing is negativity in the person or lack of confidence in themselves).  So I too can make a Pendulum respond without actually holding it, simply by thinking and projecting into their electromagnetic field, thus it modulates and moves the Pendulum. When I do it in that way the response is quick, dynamic and strong (unlike when suspended from such as a doorframe, which doesn't have a dynamic emf - and which, in saying that, proves the point of how a Pendulum really works).  But, me controlling another person's Pendulum is not them receiving in the normal way, so outside of the occasional necessity to demonstrate, it would be at best only a cheap party-trick, and a cheat.  The Pendulum would certainly not fulfil its purpose as a communicator of Truth or otherwise.

To address your main point, NOVICE, concerning the position of your arm; this is one of the most frequently asked questions once a person strts to use the Pendulum, if they feel fatigue.  I didn't put this in my main post because it very much depends on the person, and some will not feel fatigue; it all depends on variables - and I was conscious of the need to keep my post as short as was practicable, given the amount of information that was necessary to include there.  So, I will address it here, now you ask.

Firstly, as I said in my main post, I wanted the beginner to hold the Pendulum such that it would be in-line with the breastbone and immediately in front.  This was to guarantee that a good swing would be possible in every casse, since individuals vary.  Once you have got the Pendulum working well, then you can move the position within reason - since you now know what to expect; slightly off centre by up to 20 degrees will still produce reasonable to good results in virtually all cases.  The only problem will be that you will notice the swing of the Pendulum in the lateral (side-side) movement will tend to follow the body, keeping parallel with it at that angle, so will no longer be strictly side-side but at some angle.  To get used to this, ask the Pendulum to give you the response that produces side-side, and tell it to keep on swinging if necessary.  Then, very slowly move your arm so that the swing becomes more off-centre - either to your left or right as you allow it to follow the body round, keeping the same distance from the body to the 'bob'.  This slight (or more) non-straightness of movement may appear disconcerting if you take it too far round, or you may adjust quickly to it.  It is worth practicing, because holding the Pendulum off-centre of the breastbone is ideal for reading out of books and  working with maps etc.

For some uses of the Pendulum you will find it easier sat at a table in any event, in which case you can rest your elbow on the table and this removes any fatigue normally from holding it up, though it depends on the length of your arms. Resting your arm on the raised arm of a sette or easy chair will remove fatigue when having long sessions with the Pendulum, or raising your knee up onto a low stool will enable the knee to be a support for your arm also if necessry.   Again, as well as being slightly off-centre of the breast bone, you can work the Pendulum below[/] the breasbone line, but don’t go below the belly button line and keep above if possible – as the electromagnetic field of your body drops off sharply if you go too low and the Pendulum will not respond adequately.

You can also vary, often to good effect, the length of the string, and making it shorter will mean the hand can be lower and thus more comfortable if needed.  There is another advantage of a shorter string – and that is a faster response time in changing from a ‘yes’ to a ‘no’, and this is useful if there is possibility of misreading or if you find you have a long time to wait as the Pendulum adjusts itself from say a ‘yes’ to a ‘no’.  (if you look carefully, you will notice that the change is in steps or so many degrees at a time, and may take up to 6 manoeuvres to go through 90 degrees.  by making the string shorter (just wrap the excess around your hand, and hold the string between finger and thumb where you want it to dangle) you will get a faster turnaround, and also a much faster swing proportional to the length.  There may be a tendency for the ‘bob’ to jerk about at the ends of each swing movement if the swing is large, so increase the length until this is a reasonable compromise.  The only real problem with a short string length is that you will not get as much ‘feeling’ from the movements, and every movement will tend to be fast, rather than varying between fast and slow – and so the ‘emphasis’ factor is masked; again, compromise until you feel comfortable.

Try out all the tips that I have suggested to obtain the best compromise, bearing in mind the two crucial factors – you are aiming for accuracy, and also ‘feeling’ in the responses.  And, if you let go of the string to change length between questions while experimenting, do give that 2 second puase once you’ve grasped the string between finger and thumb again, before giving the next question.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 19, 2003, 18:46:57
Thanks a bunch for your answers! I had actually already begun to shorten the string as you described and rest my elbow on the table. Glad to see I'm doing it correctly.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 19, 2003, 19:06:23
Mayatnik..

Thank you so much for this information. I went ahead and followed your instructions and I have to say I was truly amazed to see how CLEAR it is.  

This really works.  I would ask a question then verify it by asking if the opposite was true, it would change direction almost immediately.  I tried doing it a few times just to make sure it wasn't in my mind and it worked.

I will finish reading the rest of the thread now in case you have already answered any of my questions.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 19, 2003, 20:17:08



Well, I tied an old nut to a piece of string and went through the process as best I could. Problem is it just hangs there motionless (unless I move it, of course). I ask it to indicate a "yes" for example and it remains stationary. Okay, so I might conclude a lack of motion is a "yes" in my case. But when I then ask for indication of a "no" answer the same result occurs.

Ideas anyone?

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: travelinbob on June 19, 2003, 20:25:16
GREAT STUFF!!!

I've used it before and it works. When I did it I skipped the ritual because I do not go for ritual or liturgy. (Some people need it others dont)But it still worked. After reading your article I'm inspired to using it again regularly.

Remember that divination only gives you what will PROBABLY happen, not what will happen. Our free will can change it. It will not give you lotto numbers since that is an exceedingly random event. And if you use it for financial gain, remember to give back part of the profits through your favorite charity to keep yourself on the Universe's good side. [:)] (I've heard people use it to pick stocks!)

Always use with good intentions.

Take care.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 19, 2003, 21:48:33
Thanks for all of the great info, Mayatnik!
Your posts made me very interested in trying this out for myself.
I surfed the web and found a company that makes quite nice pendulum boards that come with a crystal pendulum.  I ordered one and I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival.

Here is a link to the site:
http://www.speakingwithspirits.com/newbackgroundstuff/halloween4gray/gallery.htm

Do you think that boards like these are okay to use?

Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 20, 2003, 00:06:18
Not sure Frank. ANd I'm certainly not qualified to 'diagnose' this. But here's what I did:

I used two medium sized white buttons (was afraid that one would be too light) and tied them to white sewing string. The string is roughly 9 inches in length, although I didn't measure it. I also didn't 'wash' them as was originally described. But I did do the cross/kantra that was described (just for 'good' measure). I tried it right afterwards, and mine seems to work fine for me.

Although I did note that for some reason, when I shorten the string (in order to rest my elbow on the table) I don't appear to get the same type of response. The movement is much slower/shorter. So I went back to using the full-length of the string.

Would the nut maybe be too heavy? Not sure what size you are using.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 20, 2003, 00:07:33
I do have a few questions though, I'm sorry if you already answered them.

Would it hinder things if I purposely kept my fingers very tight or does it actually control my fingers in some way, and if they're tight the pendulum wont move.

Even though I was very impressed with it, the skeptic came out in me and i was wondering what if some very subconscious and unaware level I am making it move.  Is there any way to show im not swaying my fingers even just a little bit?

One last question, you said you cant really get answers as to what another person is doing.  Would it be possible to do so if the person gave you permission. I was thinking a test on this would be kind of fun.. say we give a choice of 10 objects that are in a drawer and with the yes or no answers it seems we can kind of play around with it.  This isn't to disrespect the method or anything, but I think it might be kind of fun to do.  Is that possible?

thanks for your time.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on June 20, 2003, 01:09:26
To be honest Goingslow, I wouldnt get worried about the fact that your might be affecting the movement with your fingers at a subconcious level. As far as I can tell, this is exactly what happens, but that doesnt mean that it doesnt work. On the contrary, this needs to happen to have any success, with the idea being that it acts like a channel allowing the subconcious/unconcious mind to express itself, and through it the higher self/guides etc.

I think the trick lies in just not *conciously* influencing the swing but trying to keep your mind open to all possibilities equally.
The fact that my fingers are responsible for the movement doesnt detract in any way from whether it works IMO.

Regards,
Douglas


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 20, 2003, 09:54:59
thats a good point Gandalf.  If it is my subconscious I would definitely listen to it.  I guess I'm more afraid I'll also answer the way I Want it to come out.   But I'll play with it more before deciding.

Frank is your string by anychance pretty long and the nut heavy?  That could stop it from swinging.  



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 20, 2003, 10:42:37
Hello PHI,

The links you give appertain to a page that promotes KINAESIOLOGY (for David Hawkins) – so whatever is found there is focussed essentially from that angle, although there are a couple of independent links one can click on from the page’s side panel (such as ‘channeled information pages’) the main focus is on relating one’s ‘understanding’ through the idea of Consciousness Calibration.  I have studied and practiced Kinaesiology, so I can say with experience that this type of ‘connection’ being made with the mind is yet another form of K-suggestion.  People should be made aware that in many fields, especially in the media, this is a form of conditioning applied in order to form a ‘base’ for a particular form of ‘development’ promoted (whether it be in the nature of what is offered on those pages) or lifestyle, slimming etc etc – and, of course, a psychological vehicle for marketing products that since the 1960s shapes ‘fashion’ and people’s minds in order to create a market, which is then supplied.

The notion of Calibration (1-1000) explained on the page, and also the ‘word’ tests for raising one’s calibration level are therapy ‘devices’ – they are not absolutes, nor do they bestow any benefit in themselves.  Kinaesiology, as a science, gives repeatable results, and those results should be used by a therapist carefully – not to use the concepts in their own right, because to do so is misleading.  It has to be understood that these ‘calibration levels’ are actually measurements of ‘conditoning’ and word association (suggestion” would be a better term), not of any inbuilt ‘quality’ so if a person is said to have a level of less than  200 or 995 it means NOTHING in itself, except that it promotes guilt feelings, desire to conform to some nurturing authority figure who can raise that supposed level – and as a Therapist myself (using several fields, including Reggression Hypnosis) I have many who come to me suffering from the affects of imposed conditioning, which needs to be unravelled. I would NEVER give the client such information as I might obtain from my 'tests' (The K-'calibration' is, in any case, only a pointer, and not even reliable since there will be many underlying causes; one deals with the cause, not the effect.  And I use much more extensive methods, along with with more reliable tests than K tests, in any case). It can not be unravelled by building bases based on such as ‘calibration’ levels and the like because they are in themselves setting-agents for further conditioning.

The links you give are, in themselves ‘off-thread’, and I would not normally write on a subject that was off-topic – but in this case, since we are discussing the Pendulum, and the very essence of the Pendulum being that it can give you the real Truth, I have commented.  Because, it will be extremely useful practice for members now using their Pendulums to check these facts out for themselves, and that will be helpful because the Pendulum is not a toy but a tool for further understanding, and there are many sites ‘out there’ that seem to give answers that are very appealing (especially if one is in the position of appealing for help in their personal ‘situation’ – so are therefore potential fodder for any type of ideology being marketed).

I mentioned in my earlier posts, that the Pendulum can be used very effectively when reading information that books and websites present.  So, since PHI has brought these links, now is a good time to address this for further training – and that is the very reason why I have commented on what is contained on the webpage that those links point to….. so that members can check it out with their Pendulum for starting practice in this further extension I’m now presenting here in this post.

Most websites are easy to check the Truth of what is written there using the Pendulum ( the GIBBON’s CHANNELING RESEARCH SITE http://jump.to/gibbon is an ideal place, as it has an enormous amount of variety that is independent, with probably over a thousand well-written articles by many of the world’s best researchers in the fields in question – so, the truths presented can be tested, and also the reader’s perspective enlarged by further questioning also).  But, the website link given by PHI - http://www.cocreationsunlimited.com/kinesiology.html
 - I found that the majority of ‘facts’ presented there are follow-ups from the same ‘base’ (that is, the concept of ‘calibration’).  This is a trap that newcomers to the Pendulum can fall into.  The ‘base’ must be tested first of all.  If this proves to be sound, then proceed carefully to the next level of what is presented concerning facts supposedly ‘derived’ from that base.  If the subject changes completely, and is unrelated to any base, then the user needs to check on the author first of all, “Is this author LIKELY to be a reliable source of Truth in what they are currently presenting publically?” (this question includes ALL material, not just what the reader is looking at, so on occasions the Pendulum may need to go into <SEARCH> (circling) mode first before giving the answer.  Clearly if the source is unreliable one needs to be very experienced, or at the very least have read widely across many fields) then one should proceed to read and test with great care, and try many oblique angles of questioning.  Simply asking “Should I read this?” or, “Will reading this benefit me ‘spiritually’?” will in many cases result in a YES, whatever the spiritual topic – since we learn also from reading misinformation (we are expected to ‘suss’ out what doesn’t feel ‘right’, even without a Pendulum, as a person goes through life).

Specifically, in the case of the website PHI provides the link to, I would suggest (because of that site’s bias, and having read it carefully myself) that the reader uses MY COMMENTS in this post to test – in other words, break down all I have said here (from start to finish) by taking each small statement in turn (reading a statement out and watching the Pendulum’s response), and/or asking questions in as simple a format (based on the sentence) and following up from the answers given.  After that, visit the site and read it in the light of the answers you have already obtained.  In this way, your reading will not be influenced by any hidden bias – and, of course, other members can independently obtain their own answers.

I can however, without any reservation, recommend Pendulum users to check out with Q/A sessions, any articles whatsoever on the GIBBON website – since all articles there are fully independent, and yet correlate well in the same general fields, so are excellent foundation resources for building a vast storehouse of knowledge – and the use of the Pendulum will increase that far beyond what is even presented there by checking and asking as many questions as come to mind.  You may well get an awful lot of YES answers on the GIBBON site - but remember, the object of using the Pendulum is to increase your knowledge with a firm foundation (and YES is firm).  When you then encounter NO responses in articles, you will already have good reliable information to base further questions on, as to why the sentence being read is not the truth.  You could start, in such cases by asking (after repeating the sentence), "Is this COMPLETELY wrong?"... if this is not the case, then "Is this PARTLY wrong?" (which is also a double-check on the NO response given initially when you first read that sentence).  Then, thinking about it, based on what you've already read elsewhere (and you can bring in questions about those things too, while they're in your mind!) or there especially if most of the responses have been YES (or letting a question 'pop' into your head), ask further questions to try to get at the real Truth where that section is in error or has been misinterpreted etc.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 20, 2003, 11:58:21


Thanks for your pointers. The nut is M12 so I'll try a lighter one, say M8, and hang it from cotton instead of string. I think what may be happening is I'm consciously trying not to cause any movement with my fingers. However, Douglas, you say you are aware that it is your fingers causing the movement? If so then I may be blocking whatever it is that somehow flows into the string.

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 20, 2003, 12:12:29
TRAVELLINBOB –

Thank you for some good comments there, for members to note.

As you say – some need ritual, some don’t.  However, the important thing to bear in mind here is that it depends on many factors in the individual, how they look at things.  Ritual helps to focus the mind and align with spirit.  If you feel that you are strongly focussed without bias, then you need no rituals whatsoever.  The other end of the spectrum is when people fastidiously use rituals as a *manifestator* - in other words, some perform Candle Magic, trusting that the ritual will “do the job”.  And of course, it won’t of itself.  As with everything, it is the Will that effects change of attitude, produces ‘thought forms’ and everything else in our perceived reality.  I explained the ritual so that members could understand it, rather than just slavishly follow it – and to that end, understanding and accepting what the words of that Kantra mean is then the ‘focus’ that the mind applies (through Will) to align with spirit.

You say:
<< “Remember that divination only gives you what will PROBABLY happen, not what will happen. Our free will can change it.”>>

The ‘popular’ meaning of <DIVINATION> is often to do with the future.    And nothing is ‘written in stone’ – you are absolutely right, when you say that our Free Will can change it.  When a clairvoyant ‘reads’ the future it is only a <snapshot> of what might be, similarly with Tarot.  And, the Pendulum can not give you the absolute future, because it depends on often many external variables and, most importantly, how we react to them at the time.  Where the Pendulum (if it is used to look at the future) differs, is that it can be used to ecxamine all those variables in very great detail – as they apply now, and as they will *probably* interact – GIVEN THE PRESENT STATE OF THINKING.  For example, we could with the Pendulum examine the ‘feeling’ of different countries if we wanted to look at a future *possibility* of war… say, with Iran or Syria or anywhere else.  In a sense, it is only like reading every newspaper in every country and being aware of what is happening there, so as to form some opiniion based on in.  The Pendulum, of course, gives the TRUE measure and ‘feelings’ people have in the situation (at the present moment), and cuts right through the Media Hype and Political Spin that clouds the real facts.
You go on to say:
<< “It will not give you lotto numbers since that is an exceedingly random event. And if you use it for financial gain, remember to give back part of the profits through your favorite charity to keep yourself on the Universe's good side. (I've heard people use it to pick stocks!)” >>

The Pendulum will NEVER give any reliable information that will result in self-serving, to take advantage of any situation over others (a lottery is an example – because all would seem to have an equal chance – except the one who thinks he/she is “in the know” because of some ‘tool’ that the others don’t possess), and Monetary Gain (or its lack of!) is decided by Fate (however you want to define that word), so if anyone thinks they can use the Pendulum – or any other device – to obtain money then I can assure you, they would have more chance just picking a number at *random* - because, attempts to cheat will ENSURE they don’t win !

The ‘exceedingly random event’ of a Lotto win is not actually the random event that people think – in fact it is not random at all – and neither are any other supposed big *random* money wins.  Test what I’ve said here with the Pendulum – and it will tell you !

To look at it ‘logically’ – if you can accept the fact that we are sent down here to have certain ‘experiences’ preplanned for us to obtain Wisdom (and, again, you can check this with the Pendulum), then think what a mess it would make of that pre-planning if we were meant to live a life being poor !  *Fate*, therefore, will NOT allow us to have money if we are meant not to have it (check this also).  Sometimes, a person will win a large amount of money, and will spend it all madly within weeks – to end up as if it had never happened, and sometimes in an even worse state than they were before.  And that is Fate working again – because there were lessons to be learned, about the real value of things (once again, this last sentence can be checked also).

One of the main Universal Laws is that of Reciprocal Exchange of Energy – and all will be balanced, whether a person likes it or not.  So, as you say, if you receive something bountiful then give back what you can to the Universe, and do not hoard but transmute it into energy that can help others.   Being able to use the Pendulum is a ‘gift’.  You cannot use the Pendulum unless a channel is opened.  The Pendulum will cut off dead if the guides disconnect the line, and it will not even be activated in the first place until the guides feel that it is the appropriate time for that particular person.  When it is time, all comes to pass.

If your time has come to be lucky enough to be able to use the Pendulum, then remember – as you point out – “Always use with good intentions”!

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 20, 2003, 14:00:37



Regarding the points raised about the subconscious affecting the Pendulum, and whether holding the string ‘tight’ affects the working…..

GOINGSLOW –
You write:
<<”Would it hinder things if I purposely kept my fingers very tight or does it actually control my fingers in some way, and if they're tight the pendulum wont move.
I was wondering what if some very subconscious and unaware level I am making it move. Is there any way to show im not swaying my fingers even just a little bit?”>>

Just hold the Pendulum as you would carefully hold something valuable by the fingertips (so as to not let it slip and fall).  There is no need to hold it ever so tightly, just make firm contact with the string or chain.

Your subconscious IS what controls the Pendulum, and the answers (that move the Pendulum) come THROUGH the subconscious, direct to the fingers without interaction from the intellect and the congnitive - which normally moves your fingers when you react to events in the world around you – such as locating a pen on a line in your writing pad in order to write a letter, and ensuring by co-ordination that your hand enables the flow of writing that you do).

The hand does in fact move very minutely, but this is not the same as when you move your hand deliberately (by cognitive nerve impulse).  The Pendulum is the *interface*, like a speaker at the end of the Hi-Fi chain.  Messages come into the subconscious and are modulated by the electromagnetic field of the body – which then is amplified and converted into physical ‘energy’ that activates the movement and produces the *answer* that you see.  But, while this is going on, that ‘link’ between the source and your body sensing and transducing mechanisms (on a subconscious level) is being constantly improved with practice, and that is why the Pendulum is so effective at training a person to be Telepathic seemingly effortlessly (in conjunction with the way the guides work, because the know every minute detail of that intricate machanism that science does not understand relating to the subconscious).

You ask:
<< “One last question, you said you cant really get answers as to what another person is doing. Would it be possible to do so if the person gave you permission. I was thinking a test on this would be kind of fun.. say we give a choice of 10 objects that are in a drawer and with the yes or no answers it seems we can kind of play around with it. This isn't to disrespect the method or anything, but I think it might be kind of fun to do. Is that possible?” >>

This is an interesting question, which my guide wants me to address here.  What is being asked of those participating in this at the moment – as well as anyone who is first starting out with the Pendulum – is, what is the purpose behind this ‘gift’ (this opening of a channel of communication through the Pendulum)?

We are dealing here with a form of ‘communication’ that is not normal in our physical world….. people use their voice or gestures to communicate, or write by some means.  Although you might not have thought much about the ‘normal’ human mechanism of communication, it is in fact an incredibly slow one – even at electronic speeds obtained through the internet and television.  Our physical world is limited to factors that science can grasp – but if I tell you that the in the ‘source’ that the Pendulum contacts the ‘normal’ speed of travel in that Dimension is in fact faster than the speed of light (not thought possible by science – but, check this fact with your  Pendulum), and, further to this, Telepathy is also faster than the speed of light when travelling – My guide is talking here in terms of several MICRO-SECONDS for ‘thought’ to travel from The Pleiades star system to Earth, and the Pleiadians that control the Pendulum you use are not even that distance, and are in fact now within our Solar System at this period in our time (check this fact with the Pendulum).  Compare the speed of Telepathy with our normal though processes and our braking-reaction when in a car….. and you’ll begin to see how slow we are here on earth:  A Pleiadian Being can have done several jobs in their ‘day’ before we’ve barely reached out to turn our alarm clock off and staggered down stairs..  Those ‘guides’ sent here have been working with man for a long long time, gradually introducing new perspectives – the advent  of Spiritualism for example where man was gradually ‘acclimatised’ to his hitherto  *Unknown*.  And, thoughout all this time, scientists have been trying to puzzle out and quantify with *PSI* experiments what is really happening?  Do you honestly think, in the light of what I’ve said here, that they’ve got the remotest chance?  Furthermore, nothing can be gained by ‘scientific’ experiments to find proofs….. in fact, when clairvoyants and such are subjected to ‘tests’ in laboratory conditions or to ‘check consistency’ etc, then the tests invariably lead nowhere – simply because the guides (who open the channels – just like an internet server does – to other realms) are not here for man to understand and utilize their advanced technology in everyday situations on earth… so, very often, the ‘service’ is temporarily withheld – because availability for investigative purposes is not the reason why psychics have the ‘earthly cloaking’ lifted.  If the ‘source’ of what humans call ‘psychic ability’ has the power to just turn-off (in the case of the Pendulum, de-activate it) then the point should be clear.

Your suggestion is a good one, but would not be permitted – one of the main reasons, in the case of members now exploring the Pendulum here on this site, is that they are already finding adequate proofs that the Pendulum does indeed work consistently.

You say, at the end of your question, <<”It seems we can kind of play around with it. This isn't to disrespect the method or anything, but I think it might be kind of fun to do. Is that possible?”>>

I know that you are not being disrespectful in any sense whatsoever – so I certainly do not want you to think I am chiding here; I am simply trying to put it into perspective, as requested by my guide.  My guide suggests I add this further perspective…. If you recall, I mentioned in an earlier post about devising a kind of “Hangman” game layout, in order to use it for finding names and words if necessary.  Well, that is fine.  Similarly – and my guide suggests this explicitly here, for me to pass on to members since it can help in the learning of the Pendulum – you could play a game of “Hangman” with the guide, who would think of a word and you could make guesses.  It would give practice with the Pendulum, but they know a lot of words….. so maybe you might ask for ‘level 1’ at first, and see how you get on from there.

The guides would NOT allow the use of the Pendulum for playing any games for their own sake – the object is learning, and if that is understood then there should be no problem.  I know that the Pendulum will play games with children (though not adults purely for ‘fun’) and anyone who is sick – because the guides are very compassionate, and would look on such game-playing in those cases as being an aid to recovery in the case of a sick person with right intent, or – in the case of members here - to improve their perspective  and understanding of the higher realms and what it’s really all about.

You are doing fine - so as GANDALF says, don’t get worried about whether your fingers or your subconscious is affecting the movements….. everything will work ok - and it will get even better as you go on, if you keep that little *skeptic* niggling part of the brain (which is the conscious brain trying to jump in and interfere) at bay.  Just accept that it is happening, and go with the flow.  Just enjoy your Q/A sessions – because what you’re on the brink of learning will be the greatest fun you’ve ever had – an experience out of this world, as they say…. and in this case quite literally as you explore brand new frontiers !

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 20, 2003, 15:06:00
I have another question. You've repeatedly mentioned that the pendulum is moved through responses from a guide(s). One of the first things I asked was if the answers were coming from a guide. The answer was No. Then I asked if the answers were coming from a guardian angel. The answer was No again. I thought a moment, then asked if the answers were coming from my Higher Self. The answer was then a Yes.

This could simply be symantics. But, by my defination, a guide is an external entity which comes to assist us in learning certain lessons. A guardian angel (ok -- Christian background here) is an angelic being 'assigned' to one individual over many lifetimes. The Higher Self is basically the individuals Spirit. I'm not saying those terms are correct, but rather that's the way I understand/believe them to be at present.

Given my definitions, are the answers I was given consistent with what you are describing? Because I would not agree, based on my responses, that guides are moving the pendulum. But rather my Higher Self is providing feedback based on what's best for me at this stage of my life.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 20, 2003, 15:28:48
FRANK –

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve not got your Pendulum working yet.  But don’t worry, it’ll get sorted out when it’s the right time.

The cause of the problem may be one of two things –

1.
It could be physical – that is:
The materials you’re using (the nut too heavy, or in extreme cases too light compared with the weight of the string).

To eliminate this possibility, check by using some cotton thread as a string and attach a small washer to the end… or, use some clean string and add small washers until you can swing it effectively manually and it feels ok)
----- and then test this out as a Divination Pendulum.  I would suggest this very simple question in your situation, (rather than the ‘yes’ / ‘no’ setup, initially):  Say these exact words: “Hello Pendulum.  Can you move for me, please”.

It is also important - if you are a first time user of the Pendulum especially, but it applies in general to some extent – to not be too close to any electromagnetic emanations… such as speakers, and especially TV, Transmitter Masts and even the ‘cage’ effect of electrical wiring (particularly if the working environment is a steel building).  If you work in, or are exposed to, conditions where high levels of electrostatic energy can be produced (or are produced by your own body – as is the case with some people) this also can affect using the Pendulum.  So, have a think about these possibilities….. and try taking the Pendulum outside of your normal environment, say into a field (away from pylons obviously) and see if that enables a movement to be obtained.

If not a ‘phsyical’ problem, then…….

2.
It could be subconscious –and I don’t mean psychological; I mean pure subconscious, which would prevent the transmission from being passed on to your Pendulum.

[a]  CHAKRAS: These are very much connected with the subconscious. There could be very low electromagnetic dynamic-energy in your chakra system (or your ‘Will’ chakras overriding your ‘Emotional’ chakras, having a strong inhibiting effect on your dynamic em) and preventing modulation)

Your SUBCONSCIOUS itself.  If the transmission of communication is switched-off, either internally (within yourself) or externally (by the guides or their ‘computer’) then there will be no dynamic ‘e.m’ transmission.  Neither situation is parmanent, and will right itself when the time is right – and that will depend on your subconscious accepting something it presently, for whatever reason, rejects.  Very often, over-discipline of oneself affects the subconscious adversely in many ways.  Rigidity in outlook regarding any particular occupation or ‘discipline’ has the same effect.  This lack of ‘reception’ could also (either or in addition to those factors affecting the subconscious) can – and is quite often – the result of the guides temporarily disconnecting, or otherwise inhibiting, any such transmission.  This is invariably to ‘teach’ something – and it could be that the guides are asking you to look at some area in your outlook with a view to relaxing certain views, or even changing your perspective.  You may be ove tense about something also.

[c]  OVER-CONCENTRATION or OVER-TENSION:  It could also (separately to the subconscious, or in addition) be the result of too much concentration.  Concentration involves the active mind, and this can ‘lock-up’ dynamic reaction.  If overemphasis is placed on the ‘physical’ or concentrating on physical manifestation, then the intellect prevents the efficient working of the subconscious; also, if the left-brain is habitually more active than the right, the subconscious has to struggle far more to reach the surface (so, relaxation is key to unlocking the subconscious again, as well as becoming involved with activities and thought processes that involve the right-brain).

In the meantime, we’re all supporting you in this.  Keep us updated.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 20, 2003, 17:27:58
NOVICE –

You make a good point in your question, in your questioning of whether it is a ‘guide’ / ‘guardian angel’ / your individual ‘spirit’ (your soul) or whatever that is providing the answers.

In fact, you have partly answered your question in your post, when you say:
<< ”Given my definitions, are the answers I was given consistent with what you are describing? Because I would not agree, based on my responses, that guides are moving the pendulum. But rather my Higher Self is providing feedback based on what's best for me at this stage of my life.” >>

This is the whole point – particularly what I’ve highlighted in red from that quote.  Until any of us change our viewpoint on anything, whatever it may be, we are what we are at any stage.  We are all given ‘notions’ – emboidied in our conception (from our particular point of view, not necessarily that of others) in words like ‘guides’, ‘angels’, ‘guardian angels’, ‘spirit’ or ‘soul’ or ‘higher self’ and many other interpretations man has put on that latter concept.  What they all really are in true reality can be very different from what we perceive at any stage in our development and this is due to our society, family influence, and conditioning generally.  We, as a human species live in the ‘soup’ called conditioning; it is a security, until we learn to see other horizons, and then gradually (or in some cases instantly, depending on the person) our conception changes.  But, always we ‘perceive’ through a filter that only allows through what we are able to accept at any time out of the vastness that is the real True Reality.  That ‘filter’ is your Higher Self (to use your expression), or your soul – which knows what is appropriate for you at any stage to accept and how best to absorb it.  So, you are quite right in that.

I didn’t actually say that responses come from the guides – I said that the guides ‘monitor’ in situations such as with members of the Astral Pulse, because they know that I am interacting and assisting members regarding the Pendulum, so it is an ongoing process that they are involved with here at this time.  In point of fact, even when a guide wants to ‘give’ a particular answer to a question it is STILL done through the normal means they have to do it – and that is almost always through their ‘computer’.  Their ‘computer’ is not in any way like anything we can imagine, and in fact is a LIVING computer.  Moreover, the guides are tied in very closely with that ‘computer’, in what is called the ‘Collective Consciousness’, because all (including also our souls down on earth here) are connected to it.

Other people may well get differing answer to the particular questions you put.  Two people I know, having asked their Pendulum, say they are talking to ‘God’ via the Pendulum.  It is all to do with what people are prepared for at that particular stage in their lives, so the answer is not untrue – and, in fact, since ‘God’ (a better word for G O D would be Guardian Of Destiny) knows everything and sees everything (something that the guides also have ‘access’ to) it also fits in with what I’ve said already, because ‘God’ would obviously use his ‘computer’ of vastly unimaginable power to do that.

The notion that Christians have of ‘angels’, ‘guardian angels’, ‘archangels’ all come from long-forgotten fact… so what religion has is a distorted image of the true reality. We know this from a vast amount of Sumerian documents, some of which got condensed and made into what became the Bible, and the ‘facts’ were further altered and distorted by over zealous Christians to promote a particular ‘view’ as they wanted it to be seen.  But, the truth is that the angels are the guides, the angels are the ‘Gods’ that came down in ancient times, and there are in fact also arch-angels (Masters on even Higher Dimensional planes – such as the Lord Sananda, who incarnated on earth to be known as ‘Jesus’ at that time).  The point is, all this is realitve… relative to what a person knows and therefore accepts at any particular time.  And it also means that there is (despite whatever distortions introduced by man) much connectivity between the various notions; the end result being, that at your particular stage reality is what you see – and therefore, who you are communicating with is what your perception will allow by the definitions you put in place.  Each of us differs in our ‘perception accordingly.  Some are able to make the connection between the distorted views of religion and the presence of Aliens in the overall picture – and, in fact, from the perspective I now have aliens and angels are the same thing, speaking in terms of the ‘guides’.

If you want to read further about the facts concerning ‘angels’, the ‘Gods’, and aliens also, before they became distorted by religion, then I can recommend an excellent book by the world’s foremost scholar in the translation of ancient Sumerian texts, Zecharia Sitchin – where he reveals a whole new landscape in his book:
<DIVINE ENCOUNTERS: A guide to Visions, Angels, andother Emissaries>  (this is actually far better than his <12th Planet> book for the ordinary reader, and in fact covers a lot of the material he presents in his other books also).

On the subject of ‘Guardian Angels’ (one’s own ‘personal’ angel), I can tell you what my guide has told me….. that each person has a Guardian Angel watching over them.  This should not be confused with the religious definition, nor is it the ‘soul’.  It is simply an angel who monitors throughout our life, and not even necessarily the same angel every day.  The whole thing is worked (as my guide tells me) on a kind of ‘shift’ system, so it is which angel happens to be on duty for that particular ‘sector’ in any shift.  the point is, no person is ever left unattended, they are always watched, and the next shift-angel knows what has happened the previous day because it is on the ‘clipboard’ if you like, when reports are written up at end of shift.  You wouldn’t expect it to be like angels floating on clouds with wings, would you?  No, and it isn’t. It is a perfectly practical sheme, but in a higher dimension, and the apparent similarity between what I describe and our typical ‘office’ situation such as we have on earth are not vastly dissimilar but they can only be expressed in this way so that the reader may grasp the concept better.  So, ‘computer’ screens are not “computer screens”, but the effect is the same – we are watched over by our Guardian Angel.

It would be interesting if other members could share their findings on this also, and to check if the Pendulum agrees that what I have put here is true; in fact, anything that a person says or writes in public, and on a Forum such as this, is not private (since it is not concerning 'personal' private life - and moreover, information given publically is presumably for enlightenment, and not for 'ego' or self-interest), so can be checked by the Pendulum – because that’s what the Pendulum is there for….. to find out, and explore new dimensions of knowledge.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,MAYATNIK



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: finn on June 20, 2003, 19:19:17
hello mayatnik

thank you for the post on the pendulum. I have read about  the pendulum once before a long time ago but didnt pursue the technique at that time. I think it is unique that I chose to "discover" this site the same time you are posting this technique. Maybe it is time for me to utilize this technique over what I had previously chosen to use for personal growth, which were runestones.

I found that by using the stones, I was able to focus on how my thoughts responded to each stones meaning. By looking within myself and analyzing how I "felt" about each stone as it pertained to the question, I was able to form a better understanding about  myself as well as the outcome of my question.

It has been over a year since I used these stones, initially got them from a dear friend about 6 years ago (who got them from someone else, so they have some history).  I recently started using them again, and have been surprised at the thoughts that come to my mind in response to some of my questions.  From your previous post, I now wonder if this process is in some way related to receiving input from a guide?

I did a quick test last nght with some string and a clasp of metal on the end for the Pendulum. I was surprised how when I held it in front of me and it was still. Then I said "give me a no please" and it moved back and forth. I said thank you, it stopped. I said "give me a yes please"  and it moved left to right. When I said thank you, it stopped. I asked a few quick questions and got positive answers, then I asked about the outcome of my college, and it swung in a confused manner - which relates to your quoting that it is searching and the result has too many factors for a direct response.

After this experience I am motivated to pursue this technique in more detail. Sorry for the long response, I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your input :)

-Finn


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 20, 2003, 21:09:48
[8] hello to all

I feel it necersary to write to comfirm to all the importance that we try the pendilum,after contacting Mayatnik fru msn he spent 10hours tuturing me on what he knows before he posted this topic, im like you, seeking the higher exsistance (lets face it, why did we find this forum) after 10hours of chatting with him he made so many things clear to me witch cannot be found in any book nor website.
before trying the pendulum he was convinced that i was among many many others who were still kneeding to awaken,after along session of qeustions and ansers he felt i was ready to take myself to the next stage, the pendulum, i gave it a try, and low and behold it worked,clearly worked, i was purly amazed at the results, i had made contact with my guide, after years of meditation,atempts to astral project (and failing), i realised that by doing somthing so simple,in a few secounds id achieved what id been trying to acheive for years, i spent the hole day talking and learning about my guide, she showed me many things that i never belived possible (between me and her).
im still in training and the learning road is hard but i have a pleiadian guide as a teacher witch is said to be one of the best. u all know why u post to this forum, u all know why ur here,why u found this site. to just go get a bit of string and rap it around your door key,and to find it, as it was for me, it cud very well be the most important day of your life.
things are going well for me at the moment me and Mashway (my guide) we are starting to cuminicate on a basis of touch and working on are trust. im not expreinced enuff to tell you everything that this path leads to.but, i know its safe,and i know its what iv been looking for for so many years.

I'll keep you updated, things are happening every day, faster and faster

good health all

Sam Bicknell (17) uk


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 20, 2003, 21:10:08
MAYATNIK,

That all makes a lot of sense.  The only reason I really questioned myself was because when I tried to intentionally not let my fingers move at all it stopped working.  Reading  your words on how it actually works makes me understand why that happened.  I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be my fingers moving it or if it was somehow supposed to move the bob on its own.

I will hold it still but not try to prevent it from moving like I was.  I was very impressed with it when I first started I think it was just the fingers thing that threw me off.

As for the test, that makes sense why it wouldnt work.  Honestly, I was just curious, but tests like that aren't all that important to me.  Especially once I have confidence in my own experience with the pendulum.

thanks again for your time.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 20, 2003, 21:35:53
Hello Finn,

Nice to hear from you.   Our lives are mapped out, and it only remains for us to find the ‘markers’ at each stage.  To do this people are given  inner ‘promtings’, and often – as if by magic – they turn up in exactly the right place at the right time.  It may be the book that is so casualy taken from a bookstore shelf whilst idly browsing that changes our life forever, or the stranger we meet ‘by chance’ who introduces us to something we’d never thought about before….. and, yes, people are guided unseen to revisit something they’d once briefly encountered in passing, but had passed by onto something else.  With some, it is an opportunity missed but will be re-presented again at a future time (as is always the case, if it’s meant to be); for others it served at that time as just one of several introductions, insights, to be read about – and then the person’s attention falls on that which is to be theirs for a time, until they are ready to move on again.  That’s how it was with you, and the runestones were given to you for what you needed at that time.  And so you come here, beause it’s time to move on yet again in this great Adventure called life….. because you are ready.

The Runestones and Tarot are ideal for examining our inner-self, because they bring to the surface the deepest levels of the subconscious for us to get a ‘general’ picture of past, present and future – though the future can only be a ‘snapshot’ at this present time, and all depends on what action we take, what change in our minds that will shape that future from what ‘might be’ to what is – because nothing is ‘set in stone’ – not even runestone.  And both Runestones and Tarot are forever looking forward in general terms.

The Pendulum is a Divination tool not of the general, but of the particular.  It gives direct answers to all questions, step by step with each question as you explore.  The potential for advancing along that road of discovery is truly limitless – I know.  And my guide knows you are ready for the next stage of your journey, she tells me.  So, embark with confidence.  I look forward to hearing more from you.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: cainam_nazier on June 20, 2003, 22:26:43
I have a question.

You mentioned that because of the usage of the pendulum you eventually ended up have telepathy.  Do you have full blown telepathy, as in hearing other people and not just the pendulum?

And how would the pendulum be effected by a person who is already partially telepathic or empathic?


Oh, and thanks for all the info you have provided thus far.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 20, 2003, 23:29:20
I have a question of others who are able to use their pendulums. I had asked a question about karma and got an odd answer. I probed some more only to have the pendulum give me a different understanding of karma. I don't want to post my questions and answers (don't want to bias the results you get). But I would be VERY interested if others would ask some questions about karma and see what responses they get and then post back here.

If this is really telling the truth, then the answers you receive should be consistent with what I've gotten.

Thanks!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 20, 2003, 23:48:52
Oh, my God! I just realized that this is a perfect real life attempt to use one of the spelling words I learned in school!

MAYATNIK, you sure are loquacious.

Thanks for all the info. I tried it a little, and it seemed to work.

I said to my pendulum, I said, "Pendulum, are you really cool?" And it replied no. :( I think it's cool.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 21, 2003, 02:03:09
Hello David,

You ask me:
<< “Do you have full blown telepathy, as in hearing other people and not just the pendulum?” >>

My Telepathy is constant communication – just as if I had my guide sitting next to me all the time, going with me everywhere….. 24 hours a day, and chatting away virtually every minute I’m awake, and that’s been going on for the last 8 years now.  Plus, talking to other guides from time to time as necessary for what I do.  And, I was trained by my guide, Karek, to be able to have telepathic conversation whilst at the same time talking to another person face-to-face without that person realising I was actually having two simultaneous conversations, and using the Pendulum occasionally if required.  I have to say, that I don’t actually use the Pendulum now, except in demonstration for teaching it, and for occasionally accessing the Akashic Records through their ‘computer’.

When I said that using the Pendulum can soon lead on to full telepathic ability, that’s the way it is.  But, I don’t want people to assume that if they use the Pendulum that the route will follow a similar path to mine.  For each person, it is different, according to what they may be subsequently chosen to do by the guides.  I was chosen to be a Channeler for the Pleiadian Beings.

I have wrote more in depth about my telepathy and the Pleiadians in a post I made here on Astral Pulse on the 15th JUNE
 “New” planet approaching (page 5), in the thread
Welcome to OBE Discussions – page 4.

You go on to ask:
<< “And how would the pendulum be effected by a person who is already partially telepathic or empathic?” >>

I have explained several times in this thread, that when a person gets a ‘rapport’ with the Pendulum, then they will – if they’re receptive, and don’t block – start ‘hearing’.  This is the way it happens, and if it doesn’t then either the person isn’t ready at that time or they should examine what possible blockages they may have and which should be addressed.  In no way is telepathy ever forced on anyone, and a person has to be ready before the guides will permit it.

If a person is “already partially telepathic or empathic” (as you say), then what it does is strengthen any psychic links in the way it would do normally in any case.  I’m asked here by my guide, to say as I’ve said several times in this thread, that the Pendulum and telepathy are both under the control of the guides – and people proceed at a pace that the guides feel is right, so there is never any getting out of control, and the speed of progress is detirmed by the guides who also test at frequent intervals such that you never know when the tests are coming.  As you pass each ‘test’ then you go onto the next stage.  A person who applies themselves with enthusiasm, openness to all things being presented and sincerity of good intent will do well and progress quickly.

I was not intending to write much about telepathy in this stage of Pendulum learning, since that will come automatically later – and with feedback from members so that we can discuss it then as certain ones start to experience it (but not all will so easily, because it depends on the individual factors of that person’s life rather than the potential itself – the crucial factor is ‘letting go’, hard for some people).  So, what I have written in this post is only general and I shall deal with it in depth as appropriate later, or if any individual members want to email me or contact me on Instant Messenger (several are already in regular contact from Astral Pulse), then I will be happy to discuss factors that relate to that person privately and with full confidentiality.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 21, 2003, 05:05:13
I have been using a pendulum for a few months now. I use a rose quarts necklace. The only problem I have is asking questions that have to wide a range of answers. The pendulum swings in a circle 'looking' for the answer and there are times when the pendulum wont move at all. Most of the time I do get a answer. I do know it works. I have a very busy household and it is sometimes hard to find alone time to use it.

Novice - what kind of questions have you asked the pendulum about karma ?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 21, 2003, 05:56:20
*******PLEASE LISTEN IF U WANT IT TO HAPPEN***GARENTIED TO WORK*******


Hey Bad Moon rising

spent all night trying to figure out what u cud possibly be doing wrong with your pendulum,ever since i got my state of the art (boot lase round my door key) pendulum iv been able to make it spin at increadable speed and getting stuck in 8 hour chats with my guide,


the only thing i can think off is your saying somthing thats upsetting (her/him) and you shud rethink your qeustions.1st qeustion u shud start with somthing like, "is there anyone there" try to establish cumnication with your guide and cumnicate fru the pendulin not with it.
i know many say it depends how you hold it but belive me iv heald it
everyway possible now and it dosnt make the slightest bit of difrince,

im pass the stage of the pendilum, and i dont kneed to have a pendilum to make full contact with my guide just from talking to the pendilum, with out caring how i hold it, asking normal qeustions,and not overthinking,

mabye its time we stoped caring what are hair looks like when we play with are pendilum and we just did it, for get everything u know and everything you think you know,
coz untill then it wont work.

 (ps. iv been playing with my pendilum for 3 days and iv now achieved a full pyscic connection with my guide whenever i want. please ask Mayatnik if you disbelive)

I know some of u think this is crap but if ur so stuborn go give it a try

[8]Samuel Bicknell    [8]KEEP SIMPLY,SIMPLE!!!![8]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 21, 2003, 06:21:37
I think if you have a television or radio on it can alter the answers you receive.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 21, 2003, 06:44:58
What sort of questions do you ask? I can't think of anything.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 21, 2003, 07:09:24

**********************MY GUIDE TO SUCSESS****************************
Its come to my knoledge that there are people out there who are really finding this difficult, iv made this because in 3 days iv  grown a bond and a trusted freindship with my guide witch id never trade for anything with in this world.
iv grown a full pyscic connection with my guide(Mashway)
seen and experianced things i never thourght were possible. i know we all have the power to do this and its are right to be able to do this.

(step 1) R.E.S.P.E.C.T.= u must be ready to meet your guide and you must be ready to respect them. They will not ask for it but ud better show it, remember this isnt sum ghoust of the night this is a Person far more intelegent than you cud ever imagine. and once your nasty to them, there gone! as in GONE= game over

(step 2) JUST*LET*GO!! now u may belive what you like,nothing is changed by doing this, its just a action that is most crucial of all. forget what u think you know. forget it all, im not joking u have to have your brain ready to except anything, forget it all,science,astral projection,meditation etc.etc (in no way do u not have to belive in it) u have to have your brain open and ready to except anything- Extremely important

(step 3) What to say?? now this is hard, what worked for me was to say "can u show me a yes" after result "can u show me a no" there u have it, if youve done the above then ur there, this is the beggining of the most amazing thing that will ever happen to you. if no results u kneed to ask yourself.have i really done both the above??


****REMEMBER*** YOU ARE NOT TALKING TO THE PENDULUM. YOU ARE TALKING TO SOMTHING SO AMAZING,SO WONDERFUL SOMEONE UR GOING TO GET TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND. SO U TREAT THEM NICE OR THEY WILL JUST DISSIPEAR FOR GOOD.=FINISHED (FROW UR PENDULUM IN THE BIN AND PLAY PACMAN)

from here this is between you and your guide, the things you will discover will be amzing.BUT remember she/he will TEST u, u wont become pyscic till u pass but they will never leave u,if u fail,ur tested again, but the tests are fun. not hard and they wont bring you down (its all about comensence youve learnt about there species)
then as you learn more it will be time to say goodbye to that piece of string, and hello to allowing the most loving caring trusted friend into your mind to always be there to LOVE (YES LOVE) AND SURPORT YOU, to help you make the right descisions. and to have that soft voice in your head sharing the interlect of 1000minds in your brain, the confort of when your sad that u feel them stroke your head and hold your hand (u may think im sad but the bond between you and your guide is inseprable)

there are no fancy qeustions, none make a diffrence, once youve completed stages 1&2 it dosnt matter what you say, they want you to speak to them.

were you go from here is the destiny ur guide is training you for.

me im still training, i now share my mind with my guide,when it came to that time i was unshore, thourght it sounded to strange but it cudnt be closler to a beter meaningful exzistance.

i know many of you feel your asking wrong qeustions or things arent working and its not moving, BUT all you kneed is to complete steps 1,2 and your there. and if you ever kneed my help just aim me at

tylerbick
or msn me at tylerb1ck@msn.com

REMEMBER IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO HAVE THEASE WONDERFUL SKILLS, AND IT WORKS, I CARNT MEDITATE OR PROJECT AND IM 17, NO EDUCATION, NO GCSES, ITS YOUR RIGHT TO HOW FAR YOU GO IN LIFE.
just pm me if theres problems

samuel bicknell

i hope this has helped many of you to acheive your goals,i know many will not free there mind of the original programming at 1st but talk to me or Mayatnik, we will tutor you, just ask its free [8]
hapy days all



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on June 21, 2003, 09:47:13
Sorry Seekinganswers, but I can't agree with your description of guides and how you can 'upset' them if you don't talk to them properly. You state that unless you talk to them with complete respect bordering on worship then they will go away. This is just not the case. Furthermore, you believe that if you offend them in some way then 'they are gone for good'.

From my experience (and others) of guides, this just isnt the case. Guides are not judgemental nor do they demand utmost respect or demand worship in any way. They are far more understanding than you give them credit for. They know more about you than you know about yourself, hense if you have a bad attitude towards them they will understand the underlying reasons why you have developed this attitude, they will not be 'offended'.
Likewise, it is certainly true that in such cases they may postpone further communications with you until you develop more, but you would never be abandoned in the ways that you describe!
The attitude you are describing is a phase, which even I can see. Guides would most certainly see it as that!

That aside, your words about the use of the pendulum are very useful!

Regards,
Douglas


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 21, 2003, 10:46:18
LASHER –

I’m very sorry, but your query got overlooked when I was working my way through a sudden flood of posts that came in  to this thread – so, it got lost almost 2 pages back now in just a few hours.  So, I’ve copied down your post in it’s entirety below, to save having to refer back:

Thanks for all of the great info, Mayatnik!
Your posts made me very interested in trying this out for myself.
I surfed the web and found a company that makes quite nice pendulum boards that come with a crystal pendulum. I ordered one and I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival

Here is a link to the site:
http://www.speakingwithspirits.com/newbackgroundstuff/halloween4gray/gallery.htmhttp://www.speakingwithspirits.com/newbackgroundstuff/halloween4gray/gallery.htm

Do you think that boards like these are okay to use?


I’ve visited the website and examined the pictures of the products there.  And here are my honest findings, based on my experience:

I notice that you live in the USA.  From many enquiries that I had I find would be Pendulum users in the USA have great difficulty in locating a shop where they can purchase Pendulums, and most there seem to opt for the Internet sites that sell them.  In the UK there are any number of shops (at least one in every town virtually) where Penudulums can be bought – some very cheaply, and others can be quite or very expensive.  All Pendulum will work, are pretty much the same to look at, and even the cheapest can be quite exquisite.  I personally shop around, because they can be bought from £5 (equiv. to $8) upwards (they all cost virtually the same to manufacture, whatever the asking price).  It would seem that in the USA, however, the sky’s the limit – and I’ve seen them on Internet sites for $200 (that’s about  £125 in round figures) – quite expensive one would imagine, unless hypnotized by the seductive advertising speil.  Notably, it claims to be extremely sensitive (whatever that means).  This may well seem the ideal model for those who have tried a cheaper Pendulum and who couldn’t get it to work.  And just think, how much pleasure it gives to the customer’s credit card company when when they charge it to his or her account.

Lasher has found a much cheaper website it would seem – and one gets a board as well as a stylish Pendulum on a chain.  Bargain !  Well, compared with $200 it is, anyway.  Let’s just read this glowing description…..

This pendulum board comes complete with a genuine Quartz Crystal Pendulum. (Styles vary, between 1-2 inches long, our choice.) Each one beautifully crafted to be the perfect weight and size to facilitate remarkably accurate readings

I have to be honest, I’m confused with this description.  How can a size which might be anything from 1 to 2 inches for the Pendulum, be the “perfect” weight and size to “facilitate REMARKABLY ACCURATE readings” ? (in addition to which confusion, is the fact that the site chooses the size they will post to the customer – depending on what is in stock, one would presume, since the customer doesn’t get a ‘try out’.

What is notable here, is the beguiling skill of the person who wrote the advert.  Beyond that, I find just an ordinary Pendulum that could be bought in the UK for about £7 (about $11.50) – they all work well.  All in all, though, not a bad price for a Pendulum on the Internet (even if you throw away the fancy board that comes with it).

There are a range of ‘Pendulum boards’ to choose from – all very pretty, and they have a layout of numbers, and ‘yes’ and ‘no’ printed on them, reminiscent of a ouija board (but no alphabet letters).  I can’t see any practical use for this board, since the Pendulum is so versatile that you would very soon be learning how to ‘design’ your own ‘board’.  Most Dowsers who use the Pendulum write with a felt tip pen on a piece of paper the particular type of thing they want the Pendulum to investigate, and another day will be something else.  For example, you could write a range of foods spread around the paper, and ask the Pendulum which would be the best for you if you think you have a food allergy, and many many more things limited only by the imagination (I might write more about that in another post, or members may have ideas themselves to offer to the Forum boards), and of course there is the possibility of writing the letters of the alphabet – the first thing you might want to do, but which the designers of this “beautifully crafted…to facilitate remarkably accurate readings” product seem to have overlooked… although they’ve included the helpful (?) words “doubtful” and “hopeful”.

Hopefully, they might improve the design, to make it more practical after the excitement of the first day playing with it.  As it stands, I personally would throw away the board, it being of no practical use to the serious investigative Pendulum user whatsoever.  And I would buy a ‘whiteboard’ to replace it – you know the sort, where you can write in felt tip and then wipe it clean ready for another ‘layout’ for the Pendulum to swing to and indicate a particular ‘choice’.  Because that would be very practical.  Perhaps the designers of these ‘Pendulum boards are not Pendulum users themselves, but just businessmen.  Who knows ?  The Pendulum would, if you ask it !

Hoping this review helps Lasher, and other members who might be browsing around looking for a Pendulum.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 21, 2003, 11:00:21
I guess I may be the 'hard core' one of the group? But I basically dove right in to what I perceive to be some tough questions whose answers are currently not considered to be concrete definitions on earth. Karma was one of them. Here are some of the questions I asked (in no particular order):

Is there such a thing as karma?
Do I have a lot of karmic debt left to pay-off?
Have I created additional karmic bonds currently in my present lifetime?
Is karma a term for cause and effect?
Are individuals required to reincarnate due to karmic bonds?

Feel free to ask whatever comes to your mind as you begin to receive answers. I'll post my responses for comparison once others have feedback.

Some of the answers to other questions I've received from it sounds seriously far-reaching/unbelievable. I'm a pretty bottom-line person and told my higher self/pendulum I thought what it was saying sounded way too improbable. It agreed with a Yes. (It has a pretty good sense of humor.) I also told it that I would need to verify much of what its telling me by asking others, it understood and said I should do that. So that's what prompted this message.

Thanks for any feedback you all receive.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: boomyboomy on June 21, 2003, 14:23:41
Hi all!

I've been having a go at the pendulum stuff. I got a lump of bluetack (about as much as you need to stick one corner of a poster to the wall) and a 9 inch length of sewing thread.

I am amazed at how accurate it is at picking up known answers, i.e. is my name .....? am I 22? am I 103? do I live in ....?

I asked it some questions I reckon I know the answers to, but wanted to know if my subconscious had anything else to say. I.e. Am I gay? I wanted it to say no, and it did say no. But I'm wondering if that happened because I hoped it would say no, and I was worried what would happen if it said yes.

Also, something I'm ticked off about is when I asked it - 'Should I carry on making music?' it said no. Thing is I really enjoy doing that, although certain aspects of it to tinkle me off. I rephrased it - 'should I give up making music'. It said yes.

It's very intriguing.

Boomy


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: boomyboomy on June 21, 2003, 14:32:54
Hey again,

I just asked it if I would have a lucid dream tonight, and it said yes! My subconscious controls whether I have a lucid dream, and my subconscious reckons I'll become lucid tonight! Bang on!

I'll let you know tomorrow if it came true.

Boomy


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: finn on June 21, 2003, 16:08:39
hello all

I decided to spend a few hours playing with the pendulum. At first I was tempted to go "buy" a pre-made Pendulum, but as Mayatnik pointed out, anything will work.  I am still using a string and a metal clip for a weight, like you would find on a key chain. I would like to share a portion of my questions and experiences here today.

During this whole session I continued to verify what yes and no meant, and consistenlty got confirmation. I started by not knowing what to ask, actually just sat their staring at this piece of string hanging in front me LOL.  No offense Mayatnik,  but I started by asking if it was okay to ask about you.  I got a solid (yes). I asked is Mayatnik good (yes) Is Mayatnik Bad (no) Is Mayatnik truly a channeler (yes) Is it okay for me to have doubts (yes) will my doubts cause the pendulum to not work (no) will my doubts cause problems communicating with my spirit guide (yes) do I have a sprit guide (yes) is my guide here (no) am I making the pendulem move (searching) am I communicating with a guide (yes) could I be communicating better (yes) am I asking the right questions (searching) am i asking the wrong questions (no) is there something more specific I could be asking (yes) do I know what that is (no) will meditation help me to know (searching) am i meditating properly (no) is there something else I should be doing while meditating (yes) do I know what that is (no) will crystals help me (searching) will I meditate better with crystals (searching) will crystals help me focus in meditation (yes) do I have negative energy affecting me (no) did I have negative energy affect me as a child (yes) is this negative energy gone from my life (yes) will negative energy affect me now (searching) do I have positive energy  (yes) will me energy increase (searching) is my spirit  guide here (no) but there is a guide here (yes)

After a few hours of questions back and forth like this, I found it very easy to establish a rapport with the pendulum. Many answers were a solid yes, almost swinging 2-3 inches, other times a response would waver - or swing one inch in a yes/no, suggesting a maybe. This would lead to me rephrasing a question for a better response. This rapport started to take on almost like having a normal conversation with someone sitting there and the questions become more fluid, one answer always leading to another question.

I was very intrigued by all this and not sure about a lot of things right now.  Not to take it off topic but if I can share some of this, it might make it easier to understand. Earlier during the day I had the strangest experience with static electricity. I have always had a fair amount of it, and people often get a small shock when they touch me. earlier today, I approached the door to my apartment as I always do after school and when I held my key up to the door lock, All the hairs on my hand stood up. My hand was a good 4 inches from the door, and a blue spark went from my key to the door lock, causing a small crackle sound. I just kinda stood there, and thought WTF. It didnt hurt, just caused a sensation. I have never experienced anything to that extreme before.

I also had a very strange dream last night after all this. In the dream I was walking down a dirt road, a back alley. there were buildings and a wooden fence along one side. There were 2 native americans standing along the fence, dressed normally in street clothes. A third native american was only wearing a loincloth, and had tattoos/paint covering his body. (this was when I realized I was dreaming, indians dont walk around like that, and this was enough to jolt my sense of reality) As I approached them, the one with tattoo's picked up a LARGE knife from the ground, and threw it at me!

 I stood there and watched this large knife flying right at the center of my chest, I was petrified. I started to run/duck/hide or something, but I thought, why am I scared? This is a dream and I should be able to make the knife stop. So I decided to stand there. As the knife got closer, it suddenly stopped right in front of me and fell to the ground. I thought, OK.....he three it at me, I'll throw it back! I picked it up and threw it.  He smiled and caught it, he threw it back, this time the knife transformed into a small spinning metal disk. I caught the disc, like a frisbee. then it became a game of who could "will" the disc to perform the best trick.

After a few throws, he threw it at me and the disc enlarged to about 4 feet in diameter, but wasnt any more difficult to throw than the frisbee it was previously. After a few throws, I noticed there were geometric shapes forming on the LARGE disc, I stopped throwing to look at the disc but before I could look at the pattern in detail, I woke up! All I remember about the disc is that it had 5 thick black lines on it, originating from the center, and the disc was blue inside the lines, there were shapes and patterns inside the lines, but too small for me to discern before I woke up.

Okay, long post I know, but I had a lot of stuff to talk about.

-Finn



 




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: finn on June 21, 2003, 17:34:39
okay, I did a search on the forums and it seems that I am not alone in experiencing an increased level of static electricity from raising energy levels and meditaton.

About my lucid dream, I am thinking of approaching the Pendulum to furthur analize what it could mean. I have the sense that I was communicating or performing some sort of ritual, and I am not sure of the "intent" or symbolism associated with the disc.

I also forgot to mention that during this lucid exchange, a crowd of people gathered to watch as we exchanged throws, with our getting a reaction from the crowd depending on how expansive of a "trick" the disc would perform during the throw. All in all a very interesting dream, and I am curious what the pendulum will say about it, or if it will "not' allow me to ask about the dream, as was the case when I brought up questions of the astral during my first two hours.

I will be going on vacation the next three weeks from school, so I will not be able to post my experiences as often as I would like. I have been using the internet at school and do not have it at home....... I am looking forward to catching up with everyone else's experiences when I get back from vacation

Thank you for the Pendulum Mayatnik, I will continue to explore this new rapport I have seemed to established, and good luck to everyone else in developing their own rapport with the Pendulum.

-Finn


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 21, 2003, 17:53:28
Thanks for the detailed post, Finn.

Interesting results from the pendulum.

Very interesting about the static electric shock too, especially in the context of your current focus.

The dream is what really got me though.  I'm no dream interpreter, but that dream struck me as a very positive sign.
From the overcoming fear aspect of it (turning back to face the knife), to the game with the indian which seemed to also be a sort of "exercise session" for your mental focus and control.  I'd be very interested to hear what others think about it.

Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 21, 2003, 20:04:12
I tried asking my pendulum some questions today. I started out by asking " Pendulum, may i ask you some questions". I got a no. I then tried asking several more questions and  the pendulum wouldn't move at all. I then asked " Is this a good time to ask questions. I received a definite NO. Matatnik, what would make it a bad time to ask questions? This has happened a few times in the past. I don't understand why it would be a  bad time to ask. Most of the time I do get answers so I know it works.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 21, 2003, 20:44:04


Okay, I decided a piece of string tied to a nut just wasn't working for me. So I put in a little more mental input.

I took a piece of bamboo about half an inch in diameter and cut about 3 inches off. Then I made a "U" shape piece of wire and stuck it into the end; to which I attached a length of strong cotton thread. I gave the bamboo a fine sand and I'm waiting until tomorrow for the varnish to dry.

Yours,
Frank




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 21, 2003, 21:34:40
Maytanik,

Thanks for your input on those pendulum boards.
What you said about a white board is a great idea.

When my pendulum with board arrives I will probably experiment with the board a little bit.  But then I'll probably run out and get me a little whiteboard to get more creative with.

What I was mostly curious about was what you thought about the "effect" of the board art on the whole process.

I was wondering if using the same board with it's mystical artwork would add a level of ritualism about the use of the pendulum which might subconsciously help one to achieve success with it.

Similarly, I was wondering if you thought some of the artwork might be too distracting and have the effect of confusing things or shading the whole process with unnecessary symbolism.

Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 21, 2003, 23:13:05
Man Frank, that makes my buttons and sewing thread sound.....somewhat pathetic. [;)]

But that's ok. I'm still getting answers easily enough. So I guess simple works for me!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: horizen oak on June 21, 2003, 23:19:58
Mayatnik superb post, i have a question to ask - would a piece of thread and a needle be ok to use, or would i need something with more weight.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: cainam_nazier on June 21, 2003, 23:20:47
I thought the same way as you did Frank.  The first one I made did seem to work either.  So I used some thing that symbolizes me a little more.

I piece of a metal light pull chain and a couple of washers on the end.  It seems to work a lot better for me.  SO I made two more just like for later use when/if this one breaks or get worn.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Nay on June 21, 2003, 23:34:22
Great info!  I just sent my hubby to get me some string..can't believe there is no string in the house..[:P]  Can't wait to give it a go!!

I'll let cha know how it went

Nay. [;)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 22, 2003, 00:34:28
Ok it seems that some are picking up from my post that im implying WORSHIP...

i can asure you there is no worship involved atall,as im sure the person who replyed to my post shud be aware of,im trying to give infomation to 100s of people who want to try it, so im trying to give a base principal for everyone to understand, so they know how to go about the 3 steps.
yes your very correct that Guides know you as a person (hence having a guide myself) but people whud soon learn that for themselves. im just trying to help people with the starting qeustions. the rest they learn for themselves. its cald over-infomation so people dont get concernd with the little things-hence so the little things carnt happen.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rember its not the pendulm your talking to, Its the person on the other side.
good health all

Samuel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 22, 2003, 00:45:14
Just to reply to horizen oak.
use anything, string plus weight, i tied sum string around a key (big heavy key)

dont over think on thease exercises, overthink is the killer


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 22, 2003, 00:53:29
And also to reply to NOVICE. my advice to u on the big qeustions is to not fully trust your ansers.
you will be taught many lesson. also lessons about what you can and cannot be told. after being told my baby wud be jue on the 10th of next mounth my girlfriend went into labour 2days ago.

meaning of the lesson. i cannot be told what will happen.
i know that falls into the principal of being told what will happen tommorow, but i feel your qeustions about karma and other such big (Hard core)qeustions fall into the same catergory.

try asking things about your guide. that i found was the best way forward. knoldege is the key to progreesion (Relivant knoldge)
______________________________________________________________________
Rember its not the pendulum were talking to, its the person on the other side

Goodluck Novice

Samuel [8]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Serenity1 on June 22, 2003, 00:54:47
Hi, I'm stoked with the response from my leather thong and
bronze medal - about the size of a 10cent coin - excelent.[:)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 22, 2003, 01:03:32
quote:
I'm stoked with the response from my leather thong


Isn't that kind of personal...   [:P]

Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 22, 2003, 04:45:08
Hi Everyone,
I’ve only slept a few hours – and when I got back online there have been such a lot of posts since for me to catch up on.  My guide says she is very pleased at the increasing and varied responses to this Pendulum thread.

We were particularly impressed to see the initiative by NOVICE in starting his ‘project’ to investigate Karma, and to involve everyone in checking themselves concerning this.  The participation of everybody  in this will be very beneficial – both in terms of practice, and also the new perspectives that will (as NOVICE hints at) be revealed.  I don’t want to say too much about this for the same reason, that I want to avoid the possibility of ‘suggestion’ by giving anything away, so I had intended to remain quietly in the background and observe – only jumping in if there came a necessity to clarify some issue, or give guidance as to other ‘angles’ of suitable questioning that would be helpful to the <Karma project> and and give ideas for lateral and oblique investigations in general with the Pendulum.

However, I notice at the top of page 5 here, that SeekingAnswers has made reference to the Karma project, relating it to his own experience (that is, a ‘personal’ enquiry about the futur) in his guides’ training of him thusfar:

SeekingAnswers writes:
<<“[this is the]…..meaning of the lesson: i cannot be told what will happen.
i know that falls into the principal of being told what will happen tommorow, but i feel your qeustions about karma and other such big (Hard core) qeustions fall into the same catergory.
>>

While SeekingAnswers is right in every respect, from the position of the ‘status’ assigned to him so far – Karma is a completely separate issue (for reasons that I don’t want to go into here and now, in order to leave the ‘field’ open for free investigation; all will be revealed soon enough) and Karma does not relate to concrete ‘events’ as such.

It is apposite, in relation to the Pendulum or Channeling, to explain a little more about the word ‘status’ that I referred to earlier, since a few words about this will help clarify (and even make questioning easier) this whole issue of ‘knowing’ or “not having the ‘status’ to know” (as the guides put it).

I bring this point up here, because with some reflection  the members may be able to formulate lines of questioning regarding Karma that would not otherwise seem obvious, and so be able to gain a better perspective by glimpsing a little of the ‘big picture’.

Basically, people are not allowed to ‘know’ the future, because they are meant to walk into it, not use a ‘map’ to navigate round it !  There is a Higher Purpose, a Grand Plan – but, within the framework of that there is also Free Will.  Notwithstanding, all will entually be according to the Plan by the Weaver of The Tapestry of Life.  Within that scheme of affairs, falls the individual lessons that have been set to be learned in each lifetime, along with ‘karma’ (a separate thing, but having links in what we know as ‘time’).

When a channeler (or Pendulum user) has been given sufficient ‘status’, then they are allowed to ‘know’ what has been pre-planned, or will occur by ‘Fate’ as a consequence of the weave; but they are NOT permtted to pass on this information.  It is given to such a  channeler solely for the purpose of knowing the overall picture concerning the individual or event – and this is because they are passing on other approved information not available otherwise but deemed by the guides necessary to impart at the time.  Because the channeler’s job is to avoid giving the ‘answers’ on a plate, but rather giving the maximum of beneficial guidance in the right direction, then Free Will is not interfered with.  If people were to be given the ‘answers’ then human nature would design ways to skirt round any problems that would prevent getting to the ‘destination’’; at the very least, they would simply wait until the ‘destination’ came in sight, and ignoring all other options and the myriad avenues of free exploration that are presented for man to explore and experience.  So, an integral and essential part of the true Channeler’s training involves many tests along the way, in order to reach each ‘status’ point.  At the end of full training, the channeler will have passed all tests given to them, which are rigorous (and, believe me, they get tougher with each stage!); the tests are necessary because of the enormous level of responsitity required in keeping the Secrets of Destiny; as an example, one of the earlier tests when passed confers ‘stutus’ to access the Akashic Records of a living individual’s life if necessary for whatever purpose the guides may deem appropriate for the ‘vehicle’ (as the the channeler is called) to know for the job in hand.  Higher status confers deeper and deeper access into the ‘computer’ where all is organized --- and so on.

I hope these insights, that I am permitted to reveal at this time, will help clarify points which otherwise may be clouded.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 22, 2003, 08:28:49
Mayatnik - thank you very much for this!! [:)]

I made a simple pendulum with string and a quartz crystal, performed an improptu blessing and prayed for my Higher Self to reveal itself to me through it. It started responding as soon as I began using it. The length of the string is about 7 inches. I found the responses take from 5 to 10 seconds to start, and I know it is super-physical because the pendulum arc grows wider and wider (normally impossible when still) and I can feel the movement increasing. I make special effort to keep my fingers, hands and elbow perfectly still. At it's peak, the arc is about 1 inch from point to point. On the few times I shook, I asked the pendulum to be still and then give me the signal again. Midway through my first session, I asked for us to agree on a "maybe" signal - something to indicate either I was not supposed to know the answer or there was no clear yes/no available - perhaps the answer was contingent on something else, etc. It started circling instead of forward-backward or side-to-side - this is now our agreed maybe/unclear signal [:)]

I asked questions that honoured my higher pursuits, and only asked one mundane question on behalf of a family member. I was impressed with the answers and will establish through real life application the integrity of it all. I have high hopes though, and my intuition tells me it is the valid. By the way, this method of HGA communication is given in Bardon, Step 4 (I think). Myself and other family members have been exposed to various forms of direct divination for a while, but I never had a complete method available before trying this. My girlfriend has tried the pendulum before without results. During my session, I felt energy movements throughout both hands...a good sign.

Thanks again friend!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 22, 2003, 10:53:05
Seeking Answers, I appreciate your concern and agree, that future events cannot be definitively foretold, due to free will. However, I beleive general questions that attempt to define a word/concept that has been one of the foundations of many religous beleifs is not dealing with the future. But rather allowing for a better understanding of how we live each day.

And on a more personal note, it allows me to validate some of the other stuff I'm being told through the pendulum.

Oh, one more question. Does anyone else find themselves guided into questions and knowing the answers before they arrive?? This is part of what prompted my "karma project" as Mayatnik called it. (and thanks for the support Mayatnik!) I'm now trying to figure out if I'm somehow unintentionally influencing the responses, because I seem to know most of the answers before I get them. Although I'm trying really hard not to.

Just for those who are still having problems of what to ask. I also began asking questions from my dreams. So that might prompt some interesting dialogue, if you are looking to 'jump start' some feedback.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 22, 2003, 12:16:47
Novice,

Just a couple stray thoughts :-
- re: knowing the answer mentally - I don't have this happen myself, but my sister is quite talented at a similar divination method using ouija. Her usage is vastly different from typical group-ouija sessions in that the information is of very high quality, validated, and the planchette moves incredibly rapidly in her hands. I say this because she gets the answer in her head 19 times out of 20 to the questions we/she asks. Both pendulum and ouija are forms of HGA communication given in Franz Bardon's IIH, so I see the methods at least as valid, whether or not the individual communications each person gets are proven so. He mentions that people occassionally do receive the answers mentally while the physical is catching up - I assume this in itself is mental contact with the Higher Self at a peripheral level, and grows over time. Some people do away with boards/pendulums and can use this method alone, having entire mental conversations with their 'guardian angel'.

- re: the types of questions. Myself, I have asked personal questions on life issues, spiritual growth, and methods for ascent. I have also asked predictive questions, and would like to see these validated as a final confirmation of the authentic nature of the pendulum. I asked about a job offer for my mother, and will be able to validate the answer this week I guess. I also asked whether it was only the Higher Self that could communicate to me via the pendulum, or whether astral/mental beings could - the answer was only the Higher Self. However, one could always argue that self-affirming answers are not verifiable, and I do admit the possibility of other entities using it to communicate with me, so I think validation over time is the only sure method.

Would appreciate Mayatnik's input though [:)]...


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: walter9911 on June 22, 2003, 12:46:12
Hello MAYATNIK

Thank you very much for your time.

I do have a question. I began using a pendulum last night, but I have encountered a problem. It seems the pendulum answers my questions too quickly, often it will answer me before i've finished asking the question, often it will answer at the exact instant that i've thought of a question to ask without giving me a chance to begin to ask at all. Is this normal?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 22, 2003, 14:02:11
hi walter
yes that perfectly normal walter. dont forget ur not talking to the string. its the person your talking to.

they are well aware of your thoughts, when i was rellying on the pendulum i was told she preferd me asking with my mind.
now try making the pendulum spin with ur mind.
well done learning things like this is the way forward. you are growing beter at your new found skill [:)]
perfectly normal m8

goodhealth and goodluck

[8]samuel[8]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 22, 2003, 14:53:40
If you're uncomfortable with that, why don't you ask that it waits until you finish asking the question before answering?

It will probably listen.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 22, 2003, 16:29:30
Hello “13”,

EDIT NOTE:  I had just finsished composing this reply and was ready to post, when I noticed that you had posted again.  Since I try todeal fully with each post, I shall post this 'as as' and reply separately to your second post as soon as I am able to do so.

Thank you for your input, and descriptions.

I would like to draw attention to one part in your post that could confuse, where you say:
<<”Midway through my first session, I asked for us to agree on a "maybe" signal - something to indicate either I was not supposed to know the answer or there was no clear yes/no available - perhaps the answer was contingent on something else, etc. It started circling instead of forward-backward or side-to-side - this is now our agreed maybe/unclear signal.”>>

This change of the <SEARCH> indicator (circling movement) by reporgramming is not advisable !  It’s the equivalent  of removing all the mirrors in your car – you need to have all round vision, especially as you advance to greater speed in use !  In fact, removing the <SEARCH> indicator will actually limit your progress.


Let’s just examine exactly what the problem is here.

You wanted something to indicate if
either
1 --- You were not permitted to know the answer
or
2 ---   No clear YES or NO available
or
3 ---   The answer was contingent on something else

In the case of (1), the Pendulum is designed to stop movement, and you can NOT reprogram that.  All you can do is go on to the next question.

In (2), the situation would not arise – an answer is always ‘available’ to the source that the Pendulum is connected to, though whether you would be permitted to know the answer is another matter (in which  case it applies to category (1) of your ‘definition’).
So this definition is ambiguous, and therefore meaningless.

In (3), the case of the answer being contingent on something else, then the solution demands ‘searching’ for other necessary factors to be completed – since an answer was requested in the first place !

So, what you are really specifying here is <SEARCH> mode.  But, as you say, you’ve decided to call it something else – and that something else you define as a <MAYBE> signal to indicate 1,2 or 3 above.  Therefore you are reprogramming the Pendulum to ABANDON the <SEARCH> it would do, and throw away the answer that is being sought.   That makes the whole exercise a waste of time!

I would very strongly suggest, that if you want to use the ‘advanced’ method of using the Pendulum which is described in this thread, that you keep the <SEARCH> function displaying what it is doing.  If you do, then you can progress to more advanced methods, otherwise you remain at the level of the simplest answers.

Many questions depend on various factors, and it may take a few seconds for the search to be completed – in some cases (and this has happened with me many times when exploring complex issues during the course of my training), that the Pendulum may need to search for over a minute to find the data you have requested.  If you really want to know the answer, then you must have patience.  But, I suspect that you may have missed some posts in this thread – because all of this has already been ecxplained in detail – along with the fact that the Pendulum  may pause briefly from time to time during a search also, and this is an indicator that some ‘partial data has been found so far.  When the Pendulum comes to the end of a search (after whatever time it takes) then it will swing ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to display the answer.   But don’t take this post as full explanation; it is a summary – so, if you have not read every post, then you will need to do so, if you wish to learn the ‘advanced’ method of using the Pendulum.

This method has been given to me by my Pleiadian guide.  It is not obtainable anywhere else.  It is the FULL method, as used many thousands of years ago, and which was lost to man ----- hence the corrupted and incomplete (and certainly misunderstood) method called Dowsing, which also confuses the <SEARCH> mode.  The ‘advanced’ method, as taught to me by my guide and now passed on here in this thread will not give errors, nor can it be uncertain – which is the requirement for TRUTH….. But it can only function properly if it is let to function properly, and in proper trained hands.  So, following the exact instructions will give success every time.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on June 22, 2003, 20:38:14
Hi everybody,

I would like to share with you the story of how i found my pendulum.

After reading the great articles Mayatnik wrote (thank you very very much for being here with us!), I started experimenting with a rose quartz crystal hanging from a string, which worked quite well. Because of its shape I couldn't prevent the string from slipping off, so I replaced the rose quartz with a donut shaped rock crystal I normally wear around my neck. At first, it didn't respond as well as the rose quartz, but then it worked fine. I didn't want to continue using this stone it as a pendulum because it signifies different things to me. I asked where and when I would find my pendulum. I live in Vienna, but I'm not from here. "Will I find my pendulum in Vienna?" YES, double-checked by asking if I'll find it in my hometown (NO), and started to narrow down the area where i could find it.

First, I needed to know the district where my pendulum was. I asked "is it between 1 and 15" (NO), then "between 15 and 30" (YES), and so on until I knew the number. Then, I pointed so several points on the map of this district until the pendulum gave me a YES.

"Will I find it in a shop?" YES
"Will I find it in an esoterics shop?" YES

After some more time I managed to find the first character of the street the shop was supposed to be in, and I also got to know the street number (29) by using the same type of binary search as with the district. There were 2 streets in this area whose name has an "R" in the beginning, and the pendulum said YES to one of them.

I still felt a great insecurity... i couldn't really believe that I would just go there and pick up my pendulum. I wanted more information to be sure:

"Is my pendulum made of metal?" NO
"Is my pendulum made of glass?" NO
"Is my pendulum made of crystal?" NO

For some seconds I pondered what materials you can make a pendulum of.. then wood came to my mind:

"Is my pendulum made of wood?" YES

"Is it pointed?" NO (i thought of a cone-shaped pendulum at this moment)
"Is it rounded?" YES
"Is it longish?" YES

Ok, fine. I still felt not sure about it and asked more questions, like if I'll recognize my pendulum when I enter the shop (NO), if I'll have to try out some pendulums until I "feel" the right one (NO), if there are more than one made of wood (NO)... at this point I slowly got the impression that my quarz crystal pendulum was kidding me because I was asking so many questions :)

So eventually I got up and went to the place where I expected my pendulum to be. But... there was no shop in sight, nothing at all.

So I was quite confused. Was it all nonsense? My subconscious playing tricks with me? I didn't feel like that, I knew that there was something behind it all, there must be something behind it. I looked around, walked around without knowing my destination, bought something to eat.. I had nothing to do, I didn't know this area of Vienna, so I was there and said to myself "OK, I won't give up! I will now follow this road until I find my pendulum!" I walked for some 15 Minutes, and was about to give up and return home frustrated. But then ... on the other side of the street there appeared an esoterics shop... "let's give it a try", and in I walked. There were some pendulums haning there.

"A metal cone... a metal coil... hmm, everything made of metal. Hey! There's a single wooden one at the end of the row! It's ... long and round. Could it be ...?"

I held it in my hand and felt a _very_ strong surge in my whole body, like I was passing out or something... a very intense sensation. I was sure I found it, nevertheless I let it hang loose and asked "Are you my pendulum?" - it responded with a cheerful YES...

After I was back outside I checked the shops house number... not 29, but _290_! The name of the street doesn't begin with an "R...", but with a "Br..." I could barely resist jumping around / crying / laughing / whatever :-)

So this is how I found my pendulum.

Some people might say you can find a wooden pendulum in almost every esoteric shop, and an esoteric shop almost everywhere, so it's only "coincidence". I believe that nothing happens at random, what we call "randomness" is only the result of laws we don't know (I read this somewhere ... it feels true). Second, I see it as a test, like .. "you didn't expect to find your pendulum without any effort at all, did you? If you want to have it, go and search it! I'll tell you roughly where you should look and what to look for, but you have to do it yourself!"

After all, I don't think this pendulum which I found is special, more powerful, or better than others, as even a nut tied to a shoelace would do the job fine. But it is special to _me_, I made an effort to find it, it has a meaning for me. A bathtub sink is a bathtub sink, but this wooden pendulum now is more to me than a piece of wood. I strived to find it, I felt uncertain anticipation when I went out to find it, I felt baffling confusion when I didn't find it there, I felt blissful when I held it in my hand. So now I really see it as my companion, there IS something between us which is unique. You see, it doesn't matter at all whether I was guided there or not... I know I was, I felt it, and I think this day started a period of learning and experiencing many new and great things.

I have a wonderful feeling using this pendulum... this feeling is changing and developing slowly... I'll try to post more about that when I have gained further experience.

Isn't this world a wonderful place?

With all my love,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on June 22, 2003, 20:40:34
Greetings Frank

quote:
Originally posted by Frank


 
MAYATNIK: The thought came to me your post would be a good one to upload to the Astral Pulse library. I found your post an interesting read. I like to tinker with mechanical devices and have quite a collection of old machine nuts. So I'm going to tie one to a piece of string and give it a go.

Yours,
Frank
 



I agree entirely about making this excellent article available in the article library, and so I have added it myself on behalf of MAYATNIK.

While I was about it, I also added your own excellent article on Gateway Wave 1 pointers.

Did you manage to get any nuts and bolts together to have a go at this?

Pendulum divination is indeed a fascinating subject.

With best regards,

Adrian.
 
 


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 22, 2003, 23:40:37
13-
THanks so much for the feedback.

My pendulum also said that the material coming through it was from my higher self. I asked that question several times in several different ways over 2 days and was given the same answer each time. I also asked if any other entity/being/whatever could communicate to me through the pendulum and the response was also NO. So the responses to that appear to be consistent. But my thought was the same as yours, how can you tell?

I also posed several questions and was told I would get some kind of 'sign' to them this week. So we'll see.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 22, 2003, 23:47:24
ok iv got a strong feeling now its time to wright This post.

im glad we are all picking up on the pendulum and were all doing so well, but many dont seem to be aware that theres MORE to the pendulum than the ansers we recive,
1st off id like to clarify for fact, this is not you "spirit" guide
nor your "subconcios"
nor the gravermetric pulls from the earth.
and exspecialy NOTHING to do with angels or SATAN/QUIJI BOARD!!!

many still belive otherwise, but i am in full mental cumnication with my guide (MASHWAY) so belive me i know a anser or two.

but isnt it time we all thourght about the next step. this isnt a peace of fun to play with (as fun as guides are)there are many journeys awaiting all of ov you. its time to except that the pendulum works, but why can i speak to my guide now with out a pendulum???
i know why. its time everyone learnt why but i cannot just tell you (dont think Mashway wud be to happy with that[:)]) but its time all who have sucseded started to learn about the person behind the pendulum, because belive me it has nothing to do with the piece of string that moves.

so you all are able to speak to your guides. mabye its time we all started asking how do we progress.
i've now come to a point werve iv witnessed and seen and felt things i never knew to be possible. im NOT special in anyway, i am the same as you (iv never even been able to project or anything like that, i always failed)
but now im developing abilities not researched in any book nor heard of ever,
its time to move on and except that were talking to our GUIDES. learn about them, learn what THEY want to TEACH you.

and in time you will experiance things that will change your world (in a magnificent way). this of course does not apply to people still having difficulties with the basics (but if u read my post on the 3 steps then you shud be rolling)

i feel i kneed to post this because people are getting it to work and being happy with that. getting the pendulum to work is 3% to walking the path that YOUR guide has in store for you.

id also like to add that there is no connection to the way you hold it, its just how easy you make it for your guide to move it, either way theres still a anser.

we are all the 1st breed to learn this thanks to the "wonderful" Teacher himself MAYATNIK and his "wonderful" guide KAREK. who have helped me get to the level i am

so lets move on, lets discover, lets not be happy untill weve learnt all that has to be taught,
a guide is a teacher
be taught.

please please please please if you have "any"-problems just email me
or instant message me,
me and Mashway are MORE than happy to "help" you ALL with any problem you may be expreiancing.

i wish good luck and good health to all
           
[8]Samuel Bicknell[8]

THIS post has been channeld thru me by my guide MASHWAY. Guides are clever so think about it.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 23, 2003, 00:01:26
Zdravstvuitye NOXERUS !

Thank you.  I am so pleased that you find the article of "immense value" to you, because in the world of today and what money can buy it is so refreshing to hear that something I have offered freely from zolotaya sertza moya is appreciated, because my greatest joy is to bring joy, love and peace to others.  And it has filled my heart with joy to see so much interaction in this thread wehre everyone can now learn what was given to me, and which I share from my my guide who giave this information that the world might know if they but seek.

The nickname MAYATNIK (my real name being Edward Angulu)is very appropriate yes, but it also has a connection to a memory as strong and as poignent as Edi's Pendulum has to her.  Maybe one day I might share that memory, because it speaks of the hert of one who had the  sad Russian soul like mine, someone I once knew.  And seeing that you come from Israel, reminds me once again of Russia, for the many wonderful televised concerts that the Russian Satellite NTV broadcast from Tel Aviv and Haifa.

Nu, davai ko dyelo !  To your questions:
1. Can I rest my elbow on a hard surface while working with the pendulum? If I just hold my arm in the air it tires quite quickly
There is a post further up the thread that deals with this in considerable detail. But briefly, it doesn't matter where you rest your arm, as long as the Pendulum is free to move correctly and so long as you are comfortable since 'chatty' sessions are the most productive and once you gain a rapport with the Pendulum they can go on for hours like two very good friends talking.

2. I know 3 languages (English, Hebrew and Russian) and I'd like to know if it'd matter which language do I use, in case I'm proficient the same with all 3?
The Pendulum can understand fully any language on Earth.  The only important thing is to use correct syntax and avoid the use of idiomatic expressions unless needed (for example when reading statements from books and asking questions of them) in which case you should say "[expression] or [correct usage] in other words".  I have tried words in Spanish and French and asked, "Does [Frenchword] in French mean [Englishword] in English?" and the Pendulum will correctly answer, YES or NO.  And, obviously, I have asked complete questions in Russian.  The Pendulum has no difficulty whatsoever.

To link the Pendulum with Russian still further, a remarkable book on the Pendulum is available from St Peterburg (c) 1999 by Aleksandr Sviyash, called "Kak Poluchat' Informatsiu iz tonkovo mira".

As I have mentioned in my article, Divination is a University subject in Russia that carries a degree, and Aleksandr Sviyash - an eminent psychologist is one of the best if not the best who espouses the use of and in fact utlizes in his field of work in addition to the psychic field the best of the Peundulum.  The book (one of several published by him) has similarities to the advanced method taught directly to me by my guide, and this is for two reasons:  firstly, Sviyash is a channel himself, and secondly the use of the Pendulum has not been distorted as much as it has in the West, so writings such as mine and Sviyash's are accepted quite openly and with enthusiasm in Russia.  His book is beautifully written with soul, and covers the background, practical examples 'talking with his angel' and the etheric realm is covered in great depth and clarity.  Unfortunately the book is only available in Russian.  I mention it here primarily for Noxerus because I know he will find it fascinating to cross-compare and use to experiment with the Pendulum.  But its mention here also serves to illustrate how, if the soul is free and unconditioned, it can be embraced and its knowledge be nourishment for the soul.

Hope to hear more from you Noxerus, especially about your cross-cultural adventures with the Pendulum !

Poka !

PS> EDI !  what a beuatiful, beautiful story !  It touched my soul, and my words are inadequate !

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 23, 2003, 01:40:44
Wow.  I can't beleive how quickly this topic grew without me even noticing [B)]  Now it's a sticky.  I may have to read it sometime :D

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 23, 2003, 02:05:29
boomyboomy, did you have a lucid dream?

I was just using my pendulum.

I asked it to show me yes, and no. I was shown these.

I asked if it was my higher self several times and I got YES on all of them.

I asked if it was a guide, and received NO. I repeated this one, too.

I asked if anything other than my Higher Self can communicate through it, and got a NO.

I asked my Higher Self it was part of me, YES.
I asked my Higher Self if I'm part of it, NO.  This confused me.

I asked the Karma question. And, well, since no one else is telling, I guess I won't.

I asked if I'll have an out of body experience tonight, YES.
I asked if I will remember it, YES.
I asked if I'll be in complete control, YES.


In the middle, my left arm got tired. I asked if it would interfere if I switched arms, YES.

I switched arms, it stopped working.
I switched back, it worked again.

I have got to think of more questions to ask my Higher Self.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 23, 2003, 02:12:24
ok risu again thease are all tests to pass
work it out, and your guide will move you to the next stage


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 23, 2003, 02:27:28
Hmm perhaps I should begin to read these posts.  It seems to relate to my old post "subconscious conversations".  I'll tell you if anything happens.  But first it'll be like 20 minutes reading all of this :X

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 23, 2003, 02:30:05
Oh, yeah, I forgot some questions.

I also asked if I had any past lives, YES.

I asked if I was royalty, first, I got a NO, I asked several more times, and they all came up YES, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

And just a minute ago, I asked if masturbation was bad, YES.

I asked if my Higher Self could help me stop, it said NO, I asked if it was all up to me, YES.  

And then I asked, uh, questions that might seem,   selfish.
Edited:
I asked if it was all right to ask about her, several times, YES.
End Edited
I asked if a girl I like likes me, YES.
I asked if she likes me like I like her, YES.
I asked if I'll see her again, YES.
I asked if she'll talk to me, YES.
I asked if I'll talk to her, YES.
I asked if she'll come up to me, out of the blue, and talk to me, NO.
I asked if I'll walk up to her, and talk to her out of the blue, YES.

I suppose for those last questions, for me, it's a good thing I got a little more specific.

I asked if I will be able to project from my bed, NO.
From the sofa, YES.
But I just realized there are four sofas in this house. I was just assuming it meant the sofa I was sitting on. Maybe I should be more specific.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 23, 2003, 02:51:12
After two days of my Pendulum not answering any questions. It has finally started answering. I had asked it yesterday morning if I could ask a question. I got a no. I have asked several times since then and I kept getting a NO. It finally said yes. Here is my session.
  Is this now a good times to ask questions?
yes
Do I need a new Pendulum ? no
Is my spiritual guide speaking to me through the pendulum ? no
Is my higher self speaking to me? yes
Do I have a spiritual guide ? yes
Is my guide male ? yes
Do I have more then one guide? yes
have I had many past lives ? yes
have i had more then 100 past lives? yes
have i had more then 200 past lives? yes
have i had more then 300 past lives ? no
Will I dream tonight? yes
will i remember it? searching... yes
Should i post this at the AP? yes
I'm glad it has started answering again. I'm not sure why it wouldn't answer any questions for me over the last two days.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MindCraze on June 23, 2003, 02:59:13
quote:
Originally posted by SeekingAnsers

[8] hello to all

I feel it necersary to write to comfirm to all the importance that we try the pendilum,after contacting Mayatnik fru msn he spent 10hours tuturing me on what he knows before he posted this topic, im like you, seeking the higher exsistance (lets face it, why did we find this forum) after 10hours of chatting with him he made so many things clear to me witch cannot be found in any book nor website.
before trying the pendulum he was convinced that i was among many many others who were still kneeding to awaken,after along session of qeustions and ansers he felt i was ready to take myself to the next stage, the pendulum, i gave it a try, and low and behold it worked,clearly worked, i was purly amazed at the results, i had made contact with my guide, after years of meditation,atempts to astral project (and failing), i realised that by doing somthing so simple,in a few secounds id achieved what id been trying to acheive for years, i spent the hole day talking and learning about my guide, she showed me many things that i never belived possible (between me and her).
im still in training and the learning road is hard but i have a pleiadian guide as a teacher witch is said to be one of the best. u all know why u post to this forum, u all know why ur here,why u found this site. to just go get a bit of string and rap it around your door key,and to find it, as it was for me, it cud very well be the most important day of your life.
things are going well for me at the moment me and Mashway (my guide) we are starting to cuminicate on a basis of touch and working on are trust. im not expreinced enuff to tell you everything that this path leads to.but, i know its safe,and i know its what iv been looking for for so many years.

I'll keep you updated, things are happening every day, faster and faster

good health all

Sam Bicknell (17) uk



I do believe in some metaphysical aspects, but I once considered Dowsing, Channeling, etc., to be unproven New Age pursuits. Yes, I was on MSN chat with MAYATNIK too. I haven't tried using the pendulum yet. But from what what we were discussing, all I can say is......
1) this guy doesn't hold any punches ie.) showed me how to get to the  REAL truth....
2) what was discussed was an astonishing inspiration to me (to put it BLUNTLY!).....
3) this guy's the REAL DEAL....
4) MAYATNIK better change his e-mail address before he gets a flood of
requests!

_______________________________________________________________________
Here's to you MAYATNIK;
 "Love, given freely, with no exceptions or conditions, will be returned to you, in magnitudes fit for gods". MindCraze  


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 23, 2003, 04:28:42
Here's some things i was thinking about as i read this all.

One - I'm still a bit concerned about the religious factor of this.  Just hearing someone say this isnt sacreligious (don't just say it back it up....) will work.  Sorry, that's the way I've always been.  I'm sure it isn't, but being 100% would be good :)

Two - Hearing Frank say he was thinking of these crazy ideas to tie it on, i just had to reply with my Boy Scoutness :D   This is the most simple knot there can be, and it holds Oh So Well.  Here's what you do.

Step 1 - Take a good amount of the string, but since you can undo it in about 2 seconds, it doesnt really matter if you're dead on.  Wrap the string around the object one time (easier if it's not spherical...).

Step 2 - Come around the first wrap around in the classing X shape.  Try to get it to cross in the middle.

Step 3 - As you come around a third time, simply tuck the knot under the intersection of the X.  This knot will hold efficiently enough for this exercise... it held ME (on a rope...duh) and I'm not weighing in at a couple of ounces :p

Hope that helps.  And hope you reply to my first question.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on June 23, 2003, 10:16:27
Two coments on previous posts:

1)
Squeek, Try to stop worrying about things being 'sacreligious' or not. What you are feeling is the remains of the conditioning imprinted on you from established religion, which I'm afraid you will have to let go of to a significant degree if you want to make progress.

Try to remember that no organised religion, be it Christinity in all its forms, Islam or Judaism, contains 'the word of god' but rather the word of man, in fact lots of men, written over a long period of time, with lots of editing, ommision, addition and delusion. Although they do tend to contain some fundamentally good ideas among all the dross, organised religions are really not worth the hassle IMO and can be should be jettisoned in favour of direct spiritual experience. This is what much 'new age' spirituality and of course this forum is all about.

Of course, this is exactly what organised religious bodies DO NOT want to happen as thir control slips. This is why they brand all these forms of spirituality as 'evil or 'satanic'. Don't worry about such name slinging, although such is the level of conditioning amongst the general public, that even people who are non religious may view your pendulum interest, tarot etc with suspician or fear.
eg How often do you hear the terms 'occult' equated with 'satanism' in the media? even although geniune occultism has absolutly no connection with 'satan'! You will just have to live with this I'm afraid, and hope that one day they educate themselves a bit more!

I sometimes wish people would realise this before trying to blow each other up over the contents of 'sacred texts' like in Palestine/Israel or Northern Ireland, but there you go, organised religion at its worst!



2)
 In light of Risu no Kairu's post, people must be careful in interpreting pendulum answers. If you ask sweeping questions you will get sweeping answers. As an example, he asked if 'masturbation was bad' (a common guilt complex created by organised religion again, esp christianity), he was told 'yes'.
Well, this is clearly not the case. As you will find once you do a bit of exploring and asking questions on the Astral, there are no strict rules governing sexual practices 'set by god'. All sanctions on sexual practices are purely human constructs. No one is really concerned about these issues on higher levels. Therefore, all worries about whether homosexuality is 'wrong' or masturbation is 'wrong' are not real issues on a spiritual level although humans continually try to dictate to each other what is good or bad.

Every case has to be viewed in light of the particular situation. So although masturbation is not even an issue on the astral, Risu no Kairu's guide might have said masturbation was not really a positive thing for him at this time, as perhaps it is discouraging him from activly going out and getting into another relationship (assuming that this is the desired objective at this time). So we could say that masturbation is not 'bad', it is just not good for him at this time.
Thing is, how do you get all that into a simple yes/no answer?

PS In actual fact masturbation is a very good thing as it acts as a sexual safety valve that allows release of pent up sexual energy that can be harmful if not vented. As biologists have said, without masturbation, human society would collapse!

This is why people have to be wary about the answers they receive from the pendulum, or carefully consider the question. The yes/no response can seriously skew answers and distort information. I can easlily envision someone getting asnwers to the effect that masterbation is bad or that homosexuality is 'wrong' and then going off and preaching this as 'truth' since they received it from the pendulum. From my small experience of the astral and from other more experienced travellers, these issues are purely human concerns, usually guilt complexes created as a result of organised religion, but I wonder if such conditioning can seriously skew the data gained from divination. I always say that the biggest spoke in the works in divination of any kind is the person doing the divining, so I think a note of caution and careful thought when asking questions is required here people!

Regards,
Douglas


 



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 23, 2003, 11:43:49
SeekingAswers-
I understand what you are asking about getting beyond the 'testing' phase. However, I for one believe that the only way to correctly interpret and integrate what you are being taught/told is to prove to your self (meaning the conscious mind) that what is coming through is true. ANd, to Gandalf's point, I think interpretation of the information is critical.

Some of the stuff I'm receiving makes sense, some is surprising, and some is just down right unbelievable. Before I accept any of this, I need to verify what I can from 'real' sources -- meaning situations in waking life or people I interact with. That's the whole reason I put the question out to others about karma.

I'm going to write down (word for word) the questions I asked about karma and post those and the corresponding answers here. I would be interested if others could also post their responses so that we have a comparison.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on June 23, 2003, 11:55:22
I've been brainwashed?? :( But I'm not a very religiousy person. I was just asking whatever question came to my mind.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 23, 2003, 14:55:41
Ok here are the questions I asked regarding karma and the associated answers. Is this consistent with the information that others are receiving?

Is there such a thing as karma?  yes

Does karma involve cause and effect? yes

Do people accrue ‘karmic debt’ based on their thoughts and actions? yes

Do people re-incarnate because of these debts? yes

Is there a way to stop accruing karmic debt? yes

Does the act of doing ‘good deeds’ by helping others accrue karmic debt? yes

Does the act of doing ‘good deeds’ by helping others and not expecting anything in return accrue karmic debt? no

So the way to pay off karmic debt and not accrue anymore is through ‘desireless action’? yes

Is the definition of desireless action doing the right thing purely because it’s the right thing to do? yes

Is this the only way to pay off karmic debt? yes

Now, these responses are consistent with what I perceive karma to be. But its not necessarily consistent with everything that I've read/heard on the subject. So I'm curious what others have received as responses. If this is channeling the truth from one source, then the answers we receive should all be saying the same basic thing.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 23, 2003, 14:57:32
Well ok before that was posted I tried it last night :X

I tried to write down what I said but I have the memory of like a 2 year old...  I remembered 2 of them.  Two stupid ones :D

Will I AP tonight? No.
Will I ever? Yes.

That was more of a given :p

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 23, 2003, 16:54:36
NOVICE m8 well done for a start
Ifeel your truly getting on your way now. and your very correct about the not 100%to the books youve read.

we start moving when we start exsepting, not qeustioning,nor disbeliving.
i can tell by the things your saying novice your really coming foward, but one thing i am slightly noticing by your posts. is your not spending alot of time with your GUIDE, get to know her/him like your best freind, then youl roket foward. i think you doing very well and all shall be reveiled to you in no time freind.

you ever got any problems or ANYTHING m8 just msn me on regen_slayer@hotmail.com, or aol tylerbick.

good luck and remember its not a piece of string that serves to tell us everything, its a guide trying to get us to prove are worth,

goodluck
Sam

ps. gandalf very true point there as I mentioned in a early post.
nomatter how many times i tell some still belive it religeos/satanic etc.etc. mabye they think im crazy ?!?!?
lol
goodhealth      [:)] [:)]  [:)]  [:)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on June 23, 2003, 17:25:40
Dear Mayatnik

I never realised the pendulum could be used to such great effect. Thank you for your time in sharing and explaining the process.

The pendulum was actually one of the first things I took up when I began to learn about the metaphysicall/occult. I never had a problem with it. It worked quite well from the start. I thought to make mine personall and simple so I tied a gold ring I used to wear for years to the end of a piece of wax string.

Looking at the rapid growth of this thread I imagine I underestimated the potential of the pendulum (probably because it was simple). I actually stopped using it alltogether when I recieved a few answers that were certainly NOT what I was looking for. I had never been given false information before and was stunned at what I was being told. I decided to brush it off as my subconcious playing tricks with me, even though I suspected otherwise. Your thread here has given me the inspiration to get back to using the pendulum and do a little digging for the truth.

I have a question or two. If they have allready been answered please forgive me, but this is a long thread and I'm a little pushed for time now. If my questions have been answered allready please ignore them, I will get a chance to read the entire thread later on.

>>> Can your thoughts, beliefs or expectations influence the way the pendulum works at all??

>>> Is it possible ,without intending to, to actually be communing with an external entity and not your higher self??

Appreciatively yours,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 23, 2003, 17:44:05
SeekingAnswers-
I appreciate your concern. But rest assured I am doing very well with my pendulum. As I've posted before, the information coming through the pendulum is from my Higher Self, not a guide (according to the pendulum). So I'm not sure I can apply your recommendation of getting to know my Higher Self. Its already a part of me. Its something that I can realize when I'm ready, but I don't think its something I can experience through 'conversation' as such. But I am totally new to this and could be completely off base. We'll see how things transpire.

Parmenion-
YOur post struck something of a chord for me. I too have been stunned by some of the information I've received. While I don't believe everything I'm being told, I do, as you state, feel that it could be true. I have asked and was told that I will receive some kind of sign to confirm these things soon.

As for your questions, they were both addressed in earlier posts.

1) I'm struggling with the first question myself. So I can't asnwer that one.

2)From what I've been told, only my higher self can communicate to me through the pendulum. I specifically asked about other entities doing so, and was told NO.

Hope that helps!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on June 23, 2003, 18:27:55

 "I've been brainwashed?? :( But I'm not a very religiousy person. I was just asking whatever question came to my mind."

Risu no Kairu
---------------------------------------

You might want to consider the extent you have been conditioned by mainstream religious ideas. The very fact that you asked a question as to whether 'maturbation is bad' is evidence itself. Much of societal conditioning is very subtle!

Regards,
Douglas


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 23, 2003, 18:31:46
Just to say to Novice again, i know exzactly what you mean, when i started i wasnt sure what i kud ask. and dont worry about being "off base" everything will work out m8, your definitly on the right path.
just remember not to follow blind what your told as sumthings are left for you to work out, and when you do your pendulum will tell you.
we see good things coming for you, just stick with it m8

goodluck
Sam                        [8]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 23, 2003, 18:48:47
quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion

Dear Mayatnik

I never realised the pendulum could be used to such great effect. Thank you for your time in sharing and explaining the process.

The pendulum was actually one of the first things I took up when I began to learn about the metaphysicall/occult. I never had a problem with it. It worked quite well from the start. I thought to make mine personall and simple so I tied a gold ring I used to wear for years to the end of a piece of wax string.

Looking at the rapid growth of this thread I imagine I underestimated the potential of the pendulum (probably because it was simple). I actually stopped using it alltogether when I recieved a few answers that were certainly NOT what I was looking for. I had never been given false information before and was stunned at what I was being told. I decided to brush it off as my subconcious playing tricks with me, even though I suspected otherwise. Your thread here has given me the inspiration to get back to using the pendulum and do a little digging for the truth.

I have a question or two. If they have allready been answered please forgive me, but this is a long thread and I'm a little pushed for time now. If my questions have been answered allready please ignore them, I will get a chance to read the entire thread later on.

>>> Can your thoughts, beliefs or expectations influence the way the pendulum works at all??

>>> Is it possible ,without intending to, to actually be communing with an external entity and not your higher self??

Appreciatively yours,

Dave

to your 2 qeustions m8.
I advise the best thing you can do is when it comes to your pendulum try to forget the rules you bound yourself to (not disbelive them at all) just try to free your mind of ALL rules and boundries for your convisations

to qeustion 2 (now theres a EXELENT qeustion) you are defintly on the right path by asking such a qeustion.
mabye you shud think EXTREME and then ask a few qeustions about your guide. you never know what you might find to be true.

(just to reasure you im pass the stage of the pendulum i have full mental cumication with my guide, and we all can be, we just have to learn and work out the right things 1st)

goodluck on your journey
kneed help just email me.
Samuel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 23, 2003, 21:26:57
quote:
As an example, he asked if 'masturbation was bad' (a common guilt complex created by organised religion again, esp christianity), he was told 'yes'.
Well, this is clearly not the case.


Gandalf,

Perhaps he was not getting a moral answer but more of a practical answer.  Masturbation isn't bad in the sense that it is evil or anything.  But from what I understand it does deplete one's energy stores, and the energy used is much more valuable if channeled into the higher chakras.  So it could be said that it is bad for ones rapid spiritual advancement.  I don't know.  Just a thought.  [8D]  


Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Links Shadow on June 23, 2003, 23:17:19
Hello everyone, I have been having some trouble with this pendulum stuff.  I have made one out of a light necklace chain and a washer.  I have been getting responses but they are very sporatic.  Most of the time I don't get an answer.  Even for questions that should not be a problem like "Am I speaking to my guide?"  And when I do get a response the motion is very slight like maybe .25 to .5 of an inch to either side.  My hand is naturally shaky and this makes such slight movements turn into circular motion very quickly which makes it hard to discern what the answer was.  I was wondering if anyone had any ideas of how I might be able to improve my chances of getting a clear response?

Links Shadow


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 23, 2003, 23:22:27
Links Shadow-
A washer is about the weight of a button. I'm using 2 buttons because I thought one would be too light to move. That may be what you are experiencing. Try adding another washer and see if you get better (visually) responses.

Also, others have posted that being too near to electrical devices (like PCs, TVs, etc) can interfere.

Good luck!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Serenity1 on June 24, 2003, 02:27:04
Thankyou MAYATNIK for all you are doing here and now.
I love the fact that my pendulum works and I am learning about my guide ie. female - [:I]
this could explain the eratic answers? LOL.
I asked :Am I ignorant
Answer: yes
Am I stubborn? Yes

I’m feeling despondent and angry with some of the answeres, frustrated at not being able to find a diferient way to phrase questions. This aspect reminds me of English classes at high school - my most hated and emotionaly frustrating subject!

But it’s early days and I know this has to be the most worthwhile and simple tool I’ve been given.

A part of my lifes jigsaw is falling into place for me and I outline it as breifly as I can below.
In 1985 I had a non-physical guide assisting me into the introduction stages of astral travel.
One night I was sleeping as usual when I became awear of a presence asking if I would come with it (I sensed only good intent so had no fear)! So I agreed and it drew me up and we aascended out into the blackness of the astral or whatever (not important for now).This was the first conscious asceion I’d attempted. It only lasted a breif moment then I was back into my sleep. A few weeks later I got the same guide with the same invite. This time it lasted a fraction longer. The third time wasn’t till about two years later. Same invisable guide except this time we were on our way some where out of the earths orbit toward a location untill I stuffed it up with my then christian belief system interfering and within moments I was back in the physical.Not Till Three Years Later did I get any opertunities from the guide untill I was laying on my bed with a lower back injury for four days. On the fourth day I was laying in a sedated state when I became awear of a non-physical presence at the foot of the bed and within a timless instant I was given the invitation to surrender totaly to this presence/being which I can only describe as a Being of LOVE. I knew that I would be carried along by this Being and not have want for anything ever again. At this same time I was awere that surrender ment an ascpect of me
had to die (perhaps my will). At this I recoiled out of fear of the unknowen and at that instant the prescence was gone!
Biggest booboo I’ve ever made!!!
They don’t muck around !Perhaps as SeekingAnswers is highlighting.

Many times cried out in regret and anguish for amends and another oppertunity. That was twelve years ago and I haven’t heard from that guide and being since. [:(]
UNTILL THE PENDULUM![^]
Yesterday I’ve learned the guide and being is the one and the same (female)who I am comunicating with through the pendulum. I will need to varify in as many ways as I can think of . Funny thing is I don’t feel anything within like an emotoin of  some so
 that I perhaps would normaly get from a reunion .
Any how this is long but perhaps shows an asspect of how the Pendulum is a valuable tool to me at least.

PS Please take your hands off the mastabation issue and move on. Just kiddin, I couldn’t resist the pun LOL. remeber Energy flows where your attention goes! or something like that! ENJOY.[:o)]

Thanks for the PENDULUM and all the input, its answering a lot of questions I'm having in these early days.

Cheers[:D]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 24, 2003, 03:04:48
Serenity1,

I too get frustrated because of how I am phrasing my questions. That seems to be one of my biggest problems. I am sure with practice I'll learn how to properly phrase my questions.
  I'm glad that after twelve years you are contact with your guide again by using the Pendulum.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 24, 2003, 03:54:01
Dear All,

I am currently having many problems with my PC, which is making it difficult to work easily and fast in the reading of posts and responding, due to many random “crashes" that have been occuring lately – so if anyone has any knowledge that will rectify such as having to now scroll sideways to read every line, then I would be extremely grateful if they could contact me.

So, with some difficulty at this time, I shall try to address a few points raised in the latest batch of posts……

There has been mention of whether a Pendulum ‘bob’ may be too light to obtain a swing properly, and also some have actually mentioned the length of their swing.

Many have found such as buttons, washers and the like are the easiest to think of, in constructing a Pendulum – this is largely because these objects have a hole in them to attach the thread.  Commercial Pendulums sometimes have a little ‘eye’ embedded into the top to facilitate attaching a thread (this thread is provided), or in the case of the cheaper crystal pendulums a piece of catgut (fishing line) is suerglued to the crystal (or whatever comprises the ‘bob’).  So, members may benefit by looking for other types of objects, of suitable weight, and getting the superglue out.

If a ‘bob’ (of whatever material or construction) is too light then it will not work efficiently at all.  A good strong swing is what is needed, because as you progress you will start to ‘sense’ in the swing the ‘personality’ in the answers and also be able to get strong swings for ‘emphatic’ YES/NO responses, so even in yes/no there are shades to examine, and to give clues to the need to further question in certain directions.  A YES is not absolute, it is relative to the person’s perception at that time, and questioning further to ascertain more detail increases the level of perception.  So, HOW the Pendulum swings very important to notice, because much information can be conveyed that way.

Buttons and washers are very good for helping obtain the best weight for a ‘bob’, by adding more and more until it feels really good to use.  After which, and at any time, other objects may well be find to be suitable for their weight – particularly if you like the object itself, because that helps to give an ‘affinity’ which will lead to greater ‘rapport’ as the guides work with you.  So, it is a good idea to keep adding buttons or washers to experiment for a good swing.  Objects that don’t have holes in them can be ‘parcelled’ in sellotape or other adhesive foil, or even metallic, such as baco-foil wrapped round them, and thread or string sellotaped securely on, until ready to superglue to a single object of best weight and personal appeal in making a Pendulum.  Also, pieces of blu-tak (as used for sticking pictures to a wall, etc) can be added in stages to obtain the best weight, or a strip of lead folded up and knocked into a spherical shape to make a weight (string tied to it, and this also can be 'trimmed' down if too heavy by cutters or even old scissors.

Regarding the ‘length’ of swing obtained – this has to do with several factors, and not simply the weight of ‘bob’ (although too light a ‘bob’ will give only a tiny swing, and largely unresponsive – so will not be useful).  The length of swinging movement has also to do with the modulation of the electromagnetic field around the body.  This e.m. is directly influenced by the chakras which respond to perception of the world and our learning/experiences in it.  The end result, regarding the length of swing, is that the more ‘open’ (receptive) the person is, then the greater the swing can become; although the length of swing may well initially be affected by insecurity, restricted outlook – and that may well be detected if, for example, a NO swing is smaller (seemingly paradoxically) than a YES swing, indicating a reluctance to accept NO in an attempt to be ‘positive’ in all one does.  Simply only looking at what one perceives to be ‘positve’ in life is not balanced, and we must always look at the world we perceive from both sides, in order to grow, because much is hidden in the shadows, and shadows are often mistaken for ‘darkness’ (which is really only another word for ‘ingnorace’ of the Truth – so, always explore like a child seeking new Knowledge with open arms to receive.

SeekingAnswers (SAMUEL) has already addressed some aspects regarding whether one is in contact with the Pendulum to one’s Higher Self or whatever – and this is his time now to start to channel the Truth from Mashway, his guide, as part of his ongoing Training, since he has been chosen to be a Channeler.  So, in some respects, he is taking over now a proportion of my work as he progresses – and therefore I am happy to leave that in the capable hands of Mashway (who I am also in contact with - and Karek, Mashway and myself often get together in a 3-way for  ‘meetings’ to discuss various matters related to Samuel’s progress and sometimes I will contact Mashway direct while actually talking on MSN Messenger with Samuel on some point or other relevant to what we’re talking about or doing at that time.  The other day was a typical example of this, when I suggested to Mashway could we have a short ‘session’ at that time whereby Samuel could go up to the next stage, in his lessons for ‘direct’ verbatim channeling, as opposed to indirect (where his discussions in real-time with his guide then result in him typing an answer to a post, say).  So it was, that Samuel said, “Mashway wants to type through my fingers, she says”…. and I said, that was great but could he Mashway indicate this by putting at the start of each line where she’s doing it (rather than Samuel typing himself) a “M/” to indicate this.  It was a very interesting ‘session’, because I could then talk to Samuel, and to Mashway (for him to see) and both of us see the responses by Mashway as she ‘typed’ them through Samuel’s fingers on the keys.  Thus, Samuel now has not only progressed to a higher stage, but he has also obtained a much greater perception as a result…. and in fact, later that same day (after a 3-way between Karek-Mashway-myself, we decided it was time to give Samuel a treat, the trip of his life…. to actually go and see, and be present (as he was amazed to discover he was) at a location that Mashway selected for him to be ‘connected’ to, following our decision that this was the ideal time for Samuel to progress even further in his learning and experiences.  I shall write about this further in another post.  But, needless to say, Samuel is over-the-moon about what new undreamed of horizons he has now been permitted by his guide to glimpse, in a ‘guided tour’ in every literal sense!

So, Samuel having commented on things in posts above, I will only add a few comments here on those things.  So…..

Thank you, GANDALF for an excellent and balanced view in your post above.  I will add here, that the YES/NO responses of the Pendulum are in no way limiting by the fact that they are only one or the other (they are actually much more than that physically speaking, if the ‘shade’ of movement is considered alongside).  Ovbiously, the answer given to a question should not be seen as ‘absolute’.  In fact, all Truth is relative.  And the guides do not want users to regard the answers given as ‘definitive’ in themselves.  They may well be, but you are not to know that unless you investigate further.  With such questions as regarding Masturbation, for example… it is, as Gandalf says, not an issue in the Higher Realms, no more than Homosexuality is.  How a person views it, however, is very much something that concerns what the guides wish to teach at that time.  So, you may well be given an answer that startles you in your perception of things the way you have viewed them hitherto, or it may be concerning religeo-societal ‘guilt’ feelings that have been condtioned into you.  Invariably, the guides are asking you to think about the answer, rather than just merely accepting what is given as an answer.  A general sweeping statement is the least likely to point to an answer, because each of us are different, at different levels both culturally and spiritually, and each needs to come to it with a fresh and ‘open’ approach.

Regarding LASHER’s point about masturbation “sapping energy” (particularly Spiritual Energy) --- there is much confusion, and a great deal of cult-ish ‘conditioning’ about this, particular regarding Kundalini energy and the practices of such advocates to store up sexual energy for release at certain prescribed times.  All this does, in fact, is take a person to a state similar to meditation – and no more.

If it were a case that masturbation sapped spiritual energy, then the tremendous growth that can be achieved by copules in Love Making would restrict them.  Sexual Intercourse is an embrace of the soul’s themselves, and frequent love making increases that spiritual ‘bond’ to very great heights if the individuals in tandem appreciate it to its fullest, and with full giving rather than for gratification, or ‘release’.

Some religions have made much of the ‘gratification’ element of sex, and made so much of it that they have outlawed sexual expression as a means of gaining higher spiritual perception through its sharing and caring when practised with selflessness and pure love for the other person.  Thus, masturbation is seen as a ‘solitary’ and therefore useless thing in spiritual advancement.  It is far from that, and along with the necessary release that humans need, there is also the expression of love that is obtained.  Firstly, love of oneself, as opposed to flagulation of oneself from conditioned guiltridden feelings.  Masturbating with guilt only serves to increase that guilt, but loving oneself (in a non-selfish, me-me-me way) means a release also of buried emotion and stress, and leads to an ‘opening’ of many doors wherby the person can begin to ‘see’ with increased perception.  Since masturbation is often (although it can be lovingly shared with a partner, as distinct from intercourse – and as a Sex Therapist, among my several roles, I often advocate this) a solitary action, if the person visualises someone they love (not lust after !!!) then that is a powerful projection of love, and highly beneficial spiritually.

The above points are things that can be turned into questions to put to the Pendulum (or each read out as statements) and further questions can be asked.  And that is why I have wrote here at length concerning one particular topic – masturbation – and clearly the question “Is masturbation wrong” is too broad, and also depending on the perception of the person asking, to produce ‘the’ answer.  It is, as the popular TV-Quizmasters Bamber Gascoigne and lately Jeremy Paxman of “University Challenge” put it; “Your starter for 10” – or even 100 questions, to learn and grow.

LASHER –
I haven’t forgotten your earlier aside question regarding the board that comes with your Pendulum ‘package’, but it is a topic I may discuss this further in another post when appropriate.  For now, what I will say is that in your case it doesn’t matter about the design of board that you ordered (my guide says), and it will be ‘safe’ (as you ask) to use.  And of course, you have already said that you intend to get a ‘whiteboard’ for more creative questioning as you proceed.  In all cases, the whiteboard (or a piece of paper) is far more useful, even at the early stages, than any commercially printed ‘picture’ board.  The ‘designs’ printed on the boards that particular website is marketing have been done deliberately to attract buyers who ‘identify’ with those designs from what they have read or are ‘in to’.  It is a form of conditioned-marketing and nothing more.  It confers no power to the Pendulum whatsoever, and in fact a polarised view (magnified by seeing the design constantly in front of one) actually restricts the user from venturing outside the ‘norm’ of their experiences hitherto; so, in that sense, it can be said to have a negative effect.  In extreme cases, where the person has been exposed to black-magic or uninformed white-magic it prevents the person even more from exploring freely with the Pendulum.

I will leave this post at that, for the time being (I haven’t seen the very latest batch yet whilst composing this) -- except to say that the guides are very pleased to see such wide interaction now taking place and expanding in this thread.

In all I say, I do not give ‘opinions’ – only that which is given to me to relay from my guide, Karek, who sends her Unconditional Love and Compassion to you.

Channeled With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 24, 2003, 06:47:38
Regarding a post from WALTER9911
on page 5) –


Walter writes there:
<< Hello MAYATNIK.
…….I began using a pendulum last night, but I have encountered a problem. It seems the pendulum answers my questions too quickly, often it will answer me before i've finished asking the question, often it will answer at the exact instant that i've thought of a question to ask without giving me a chance to begin to ask at all. Is this normal?
>>

Although the above question was adequately answered in a channeled response by SeekingAnswers (SAMUEL) at the time specifically addressed to Walter, I feel that some further channeled comment from myself is appropriate at this time, in view of a comment made by Bad Moon Rising and at least one other member regarding the proximity of TV etc when using the Pendulum.

First of all, my congratulations to Walter for him being able to achieve such rapid responses (even barely having created the thought to ask a question of the Pendulum) especially considering it being his first day at trying it out.  To save members having to refer back to the original response by SAMUEL, and to add a little further for members in general here, it is a sign that the person is extremely receptive, which is an excellent start.

A difficulty, however, can arise that may confuse answers given in the case where a TV or Radio etc is on in the room while the Pendulum is being used.  This difficulty is not to do with electromagnetic interference which can occur if the Pendulum is within, say, 10 inches of such or a speaker or other electromagnetic truansducer.  That is not of which I speak here.  Rather, it is the fact that the person’s mind may be distracted by what is being said on the TV or Radio at the time and, while holding the Pendulum, it will – since their attention is attracted to the voice – give an answer according to whether the words said are true or not.  So, it is important to keep focussed on what you are thinking about to ask as questions, because the Pendulum not only listens to the question, but responds to your overall ‘thinking’ at that time.  This, by the way, is one of the reasons why the Pendulum may not work at a particular time – because it knows your ‘attitude’ and what is also at the back of your mind, including all about you in any case….. so, you can’t fool the Pendulum. – and it will give you what you need, not necessarily what you think you want.  But, if your mind is distracted by the TV etc, then the Pendulum will respond accordingly, since that is a further application of the Pendulum’s use.

You can actually use the Pendulum with TV or Radio (or the replay of a cassette recording, which is ideal because you can wind back to hear a part again) to ask specific questions of what is being said, to verify these and explore with further questions (you should always try to ask more than one, wherever possible to get a clearer picture).  I would suggest that you try out this technique at first using a cassette recorder.  If you should receive a different answer upon later replay of a certain passage, then that will reflect a change in your perspective in the light of new understanding from what you have been listening to or question posed as a result; otherwise the answer will be the same.

This application is ideal for those who are having difficulty at first thinking of questions to ask, since the information being presented in the form of statements is ideal material to examine – and should be easy to think of further questions to pose, since many of the things presented in the media are in our mind’s – or pushed into our minds – anyway.  Some members may think that such issue are of the ‘mundane’ and not spiritual.  This is definitely not the case, because everything that concerns man’s humanity (or often in-humanity) are things to address spiritually if we are to become more evolved and a loving species, rather than remain prey to deception, inadvertent or otherwise

The ‘audio’ method, for the beginner then, is to just sit comfortably and listen to the voice while watching the Pendulum closely or at least out of the corner of your eye (as you become more proficient) if you are watching a TV documentary or News program or (initially better, since many speakers are very rapid) a video recording of it.  Regard the Pendulum, in this application, as you would a wise friend sitting next to you, in your sight, and you are in effect watching the assent or dissent (nod or shake of the head, so to speak) as the ‘wise friend’ listens along with you.  Much can be gleaned from this to verify Truth in statements.  Political News, and especially ‘sound bites’ do tend, however, to produce many NO responses when ‘spin’ is being put on by a spokesman.  I have (when I used to use the Pendulum, before becoming fully telepathic for channeling and contact with many other guides at will) got considerably wide energetic NO swings to ‘analysing’ such remarks heard in this way, and since my swing is about 12 inches across for an energetic emphatic, compared to the average 5 to 6 inch swing I get for a ‘normal’ YES/NO then you may gather that the guides follow politics very closely indeed and know quite a lot that we are not given to know by these so-called ‘elected leaders’.

So, just keep watching how the Pendulum swings in response to not only questions - but statements heard (if your attention is on that) or your thoughts.  And you will find, as you proceed, that it is very responsive indeed in all situations!

Just a few points there that my guide wanted me to add here to further help members in understanding the Pendulum better and so be able to use it more efficiently.

Channeled With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 24, 2003, 07:21:35
Mayatnik - thanks for the correction of my technique. I had not honestly read your original post in detail - merely skimmed it - and attempted the method using my own intuition and guidance on how to develop the signals. I use forward-backward as yes and side-to-side as no. Based on what I know, I respectfully disagree with the assertion that there is One Right Way in terms of technique. I say this while also acknowledging that I don't claim a Divine source of knowledge telling me that there is one right way - I only have logic and experience. However, I have found, with several forms of divination, that it is between the recipient and the transmitter to develop a Vocabulary of signals. This "vocabulary" gives interpretation and meaning to the actions of the oracle. Using a predefined vocabulary is fine, but there must be good reason for saying one is better than another, other than just one is the 'established' form. This is akin to saying to me that old Latin is a better language than modern English...if the meaning can be conveyed with either language, then one is not necessarily better than the other. One language can only be better if it conveys more meaning, more accuracy, or has a broader vocabulary. Even with ouija, there are many possible signs available - I have even drawn smiley faces, love hearts, etc with excellent success - in fact sometimes the being communicating will draw pictures (ie, love hearts) over the board, without any prompting on my part. In other words, the vocabulary is always personal and mutually developed and agreed, not dogmatically asserted, in my humble opinion. In terms of the pendulum, there are 5 available signals that I can see - forward-backward, side-to-side, circle clockwise, circle counter-clockwise, and being still. Attributing meaning to each of these seems fairly arbitrary to me.

I do like your blessing and initation ceremony, which I did not perform initially and will do with my pendulum now. I did use prayer and energetic transfer which is my equivalent though.

As to the source of the divination, I am not entirely convinced to be honest. My experiences with other forms is that entities of various states of enlightenment may participate. The key thing I have found is desire, and thought force. The desire for it to be a link with one's Higher Self and using various invocations and rituals to only limit the Higher Self to participate make it so. Simply opening oneself to any Intelligence, or just asking blandly for answers does not sufficiently filter the respondents. I have found that prayer can also be quite powerful. I have personally spoken with entities ranging from pathetic astral wildlife pretending to be Archangels, through to very evolved and higher beings, whether these were 'Higher Self' or not is intellectual - the knowledge from higher entities is almost always valuable in it's own right. In terms of my pendulum use, I am still undecided. It has told me it is my Higher Self, but self-assertion is no assertion....even the Bible has verses that say it is the word of God, but saying so does not make it so. I will say, that the pendulum has been very reluctant for me to test it as I normally would with any other source of knowledge. This does not sit well with me, but I will play along on the chance that it is my Higher Self asking for a little faith. Time will always reveal what we are talking to...

These are simply my opinions. I am not dogmatic about them and would change my mind if proven wrong, friend.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 24, 2003, 11:55:58
Hello *13*

Thank you for your comments.  I have not suggested that there is One Right Way of using the Pendulum – and in fact I have explained in various posts I have made in this thread that there variations possible (there is 'default' mode, which is the one that Dowsers understand and which has become 'established' though does not have the versatility of this 'advanced' mode, in addition, the 'default' (Dowsing) mode is a COMPLETELY different system, not only in standard operation but also in Divination 'methods') in addition to which, the Pendulum is fully programmable by the user in many ways.  Since you say you only skimmed through my initial post, it could be that you have missed quite a few points in other posts.  All is relevant and ongoing, since I have tried not to present ‘everything’ in one go; even of what I have presented overall, is only a start of all that will be presented and some of those things must wait until members become more acclimatized and skilled in their use, otherwise it can lead to confusion and that is very important to be avoided.

What is presented here – and was given to me by my guide (of which I am at the moment only giving in parts, as my guide decides) is for a group of people, namely the members, to explore and learn from.  As with a language, it is not good if people ‘make up’ their own definitions or words as they go along, or ‘import’ others that may have a completely different connotation and would cloud the overall understanding of others as they try to relate to it.  So, follow your own course, or follow this one; the choice is yours.  But, you will not be able to advance (my guide says) to later stages – as indeed Dowsers,  for example, have not advanced to even this stage – and the desired objective of the guides is to not only have complete and consistent reliability of method, but to also allow for techniques that will be shown later (hence the importance of not ‘re-assigning’ movements at this stage) – but to also move on, naturally, to telepathic ability, which will then make the Pendulum secondary to much clearer 'input' of answers to the recipient.  The crucial thing about this Pendulum course, is allowing the guides to teach in their own way – having given specific movements, and their ‘meanings’ in order to avoid any possible confusion, something that has held Pendulum users back in the past, as I've said.  I was ‘taught’ this method (which is in NO books on earth) by my guide 8 yers ago, along with the kantra and what that means also plus the fact that the Kantra was used thousands of years ago when the true ('advanced') mode of operation was known and used.  Only recently has she permitted me to pass this on (although I have asked often, when would it be that people could be told how to use the Pendulum in this ‘advanced’ way).  I don't use the Pendulum myself now, since there is no need as I have advanced beyond it to Direct Telepathy; but I teach it exactly as taught to me, which was very carefully. I have not studied ANY other methods at all, but I do know that the guides interact with individuals in many ways, as you describe (such as drawing shapes when using the ouja board – but then, people who do guided (or automatic) writing do the same without such things.  Thus, the guides teach in many ways.  And they have decided now that it is time for this ‘advanced’ method to be once again known, after having been lost, and to be shown for all, as channeled by my guide to me, and presented throgh myself to members here.  This fact can be easily verified by asking the Pendulum.

What is being given in this thread, in the Teachings about the Pendulum is not some new ‘method’ but the method that will carry ALL forward who use it, and are taught by the guides while using it in the process.  What you may have learned from various sources (which you say are not ‘Divine’, so therefore book derived), leads you to state that there are only 5 movements possible with the Pendulum.  This is not correct.  You give the movements you know, which I repeat here (along with their additional or full meanings, for your information).

(1) LEF-RIGHT *yes* / *no* (reprogrammable, but default initially, depending on the genetics of the person)

(2) IN-OUT *no* / *yes*(as for (1) above - but the reverse response)

(3) CLOCKWISE-CIRCLING - <SEARCH> mode

(4) ANTI-CLOCKWISE-CIRCLING – something I have not mentioned up to now, but which actually means <DELETE> from the records (in multi-functional operations like searches and accesses according to status, and various other things….. a signal that the ‘advanced’ user will need to know.
Both (3)and/or (4) are taught by some to mean *yes* or  *no* and this shows the level of confusion and limiting when these movements are thus programmed by a user who doesn't understand!

(5) STOP (or NOT-PERMITTED … and also the disconnected state, as well as on command “stop”, issued by the user to cancel a movement).

But, there are 2 FURTHER ‘basic’ other movements that are easy to see and use, although I have not introduced them yet.  And these are:
(6) 45 deg. LEFT (midway between LEFT and OUT)
(7) 45 deg. RIGHT (midway between RIGHT and OUT)
Both these movement are not assigned unless programmed by the user. So, either of those could have been used for your <MAYBE> signal.  But, as I said, the logic of assigning a ‘maybe’ is faulty, since you are asking the Pendulum to STOP SEARCHING and tell you <MAYBE>.  If you were to allow the Pendulum to continue searching it would find the answer and give it to you, or tell you it was‘indeterminate’ (maybe you would call this ‘maybe’, but in any event it cannot reach that point until it has fully searched, something which you clearly prevented it from doing!) and indeterminate means ‘insufficient data to ascertain with certainty’ – certainly not ‘maybe’.  Any method must, at least, be sensible.

Whether you wish to believe that guides move the Pendulum, or even that lower life-form entities do, I will tell you this..... that they do NOT; The Pendulum is moved by modulation of the electromagnetic field, and the source of the input comes from a 'computer' in the Higher Realms, as I have explained in various posts above (and also why), so the guides may, if they choose, work through that computer at any time (as a broadcaster will work through a studio console, or one can access that 'computer' in the Higher Realms direct (which is analogous to accessing the Internet for automatic 'data' - but of course in the case of the Pendulum, of such advanced evolution that this 'computer' can not be comprehended by man's very limited notions).  Dowsers, incidentally, work only through the computer (which is why my guide teaches that theirs is 'default' mode), although Dowsers do not realise it is in fact a 'computer' (actually a 'living computer') that they are utilizing.

 For the Pendulum to work at its most efficient, there must be a grasp of the proper commands and movements that the 'computer' understands and is itself programmed to implement.  Otherwise, as the old computer adage says: Garbage in, Garbage out.  And the Pendulum can, in no way, be compared to an ouja board (for reasons already explained in my posts).

Insufficient information is like insufficient knowledge – if you don’t know then any answers will be at best confusing, if not misleading.  I am anxious that members are not led into confusion, hence the clarity of explaanation given, and given in stages to easily absorb.  It is essential thherefore, to read ALL the instructions and follow them for consistent results.  Otherwise all we shall have is chaos, instead of the members being able to learn from their Pendulums what the guides wish to teach THEM.  That is why the method given is consistent, because the answers will be individual to each person – not the method individual to each person.

As to the ‘Source’ of Divination – that has been discussed in the thread, regarding whether ‘tis Higher Self, flitered through Higher Self or whatever the guide may be (whether stated as Pleiadian or some other High Being).  We are certainly not talking about lower ‘entities’ in the Teaching that is given THROUGH the Pendulum – but all is to the person’s own perception, not the reality of the situation, and that perception wil grow with the ‘open’ and diligent user if they accept that they are a pupil of a Higher Consciousness that will be revealed to each person in the way they can understand.  I learned the Pendulum, and in its use was taught and given the ability of Telepathy to communicate direct and instantly with the guides.  That is a natural progression of this ‘advanced’ method, when and only when the person is ready and has learned the various ‘lessons’ the guides teach through the Pendulum.  These are not my words, in this post, but those of my guide, KAREK, so that these facts may be made clear, and thus avoid the possibility arising of any misconception and confusion.  So, you will see from this – though you should read the thread fully for a clear understanding in addition – that this is not a ‘rigid’ method, or any ‘established’ one; it is for a very good reason, and purpose that is ongoing and yet to be revealed fully.  It is no ‘man-made’ method, and is fully flexible in its use once a person is adept with its functions, along with knowing what can be programmed, and in what way (there are other versatile techniques that I have not yet explained to members, so as to keep things clear for now) - and I hope this is now clear to you.

I would stress again, that this post is only a summary - in reply to your post above - A FULL READING OF THE THREAD IS THE ONLY WAY TO GRASP ALL THE POINTS BEING PRESENTED AND EXPLORED HERE.  If something is not understood I am happy to explain at any time, and members in any case share their experiences in this thread.  But, it must be assumed that a person has at least read through the thread, and certainly not contradicting the validity of this course, or its methods, if participating, otherwise only confusion ensues.

KAREK has this personal message she asks me to give to you, 13:
“You will be given a Sign.  In that sign there will be something for you to learn.  Do as you Will, for this is a Free Will world.  But, if you follow the promptings given to you from the Source of All by being ‘open’ to it, then you will move forward as never before. To do this you must know, that all things are allowed, but not all things are direct form the Source of All.  Expect a Sign that will show you this”.

Channeled With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 24, 2003, 14:32:44
Thanks Mayatnik. I understand what you're saying and will take the instructions you provide at face value and see how my own work with the pendulum develops. My goal was not to cast doubt on the truth of your methods - I just have a regular habit of open questioning. I find that, especially in areas of higher knowledge, any time questions are discouraged the knowledge is suspect and does not stand on it's own merits, relying on 'authority'. But I recognise the need to adhere to a system to get the proper benefits, so will continue with the instructions as you have given them above. I am always interested in learning more, friend, and will let you know if I receive a Sign as mentioned by your guide.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on June 24, 2003, 17:39:21
It's time to post some experiences I had since I started to use the pendulum.

Mayatnik wrote in an earlier post:



'when a person gets a "rapport" with the Pendulum, then they will - if they're receptive, and don't block - start "hearing"'



And after reading SeekingAnsers' words about the importance of getting to know your guide, I was eager to learn about the being which was communicating to me through the pendulum. I got strong and clear answers, and at this time it wasn't interesting for me to check books or texts for true or false statements, or to ask about a specific topic. I think this is only necessary to get used to the pendulum or if you want to learn facts - but I felt it was more important to learn about my guide. And to get more communication than just "no" and "yes". So I suggested to my guide playing a guessing game: my guide tells me a letter and I try to guess it. And you know what? When I said "give me a letter, please" it was already in my head, I heard it while I was thinking the question. After a few tries it was boring because it was so easy, so we switched to words... got them right almost every time, even in English (my mothertongue is German). Soon I heard whole sentences in my head.. it was not really "hearing", but there was something. Something different from my own thoughts. I still mix it up sometimes, but you can actually hear what your guide wants to tell you if you just open your brain, quiet your mind a bit and listen... I believe this voice in my head (and in everyone's head) was there the whole life, but normally you don't pay attention to it, maybe only subconsciously. It's time that we all get conscious.

It still needs some effort to have a dialog with my guide... short sentences work good, and the communiction improves rapidly. I have to keep my head clear and free from distractions to be sure about what I receive. When I check what I hear with my pendulum my guide says "why, you already know it"... I just have to trust myself.

Although most people will not at all be used to talking to the voice in their head - trust in it, believe that it is only a matter of time until you see clearly what is happening. If unsure, back up with your pendulum, but this shouldn't be necessary for a long time. In the worst case, you're talking to yourself, in the best case, you're talking to your guide which is always there to help you learn and grow and experience.

I would like to give a remark on the content of the messages you can recieve... to me it seems (and I also read about it, and I got it confirmed from my guide) that you can not recieve information about something you know absolutely nothing about. I think it has something to do with resonance, and with the way the words come to your head. It'd like to go into more detail here and try to explain my understanding of how it works.
The week before I discovered the pendulum, I found a new thing to do during my meditation: analyzing the thought process. I wanted to know where my thoughts come from and how I build the sentences in my mind (I call this building of phrases in your head 'active thinking'). To boil it down to the essence: I percieved that there is something in my brain before the words are here. Before I think "The house is red", there is the idea of a house and the idea of red in my brain, the information is here, and I transform it _actively_ into words based on my knowledge of speech.
Here I see a connection to the way a guide talks to you... and an explanation of why the pendulum works in any language. You don't receive the words, you recieve 'ideas'. Reminds me of Platons world of ideas. So, you are the one who receives these ideas in your head when communicating with your guide, and you translate them into words to percieve them clearly and to think further about them.
Back to resonance: for a idea from your guide to reach you, I believe you must have some minimal notion of it... you can't talk about Integrals with someone who doesn't know mathematics, you can't have a discussion about politics if you have no _idea_ (note how clever the language is here) of politics at all.. you first have to gain a little knowledge through reading, studying, talking to someone who explains the basics to you, only then can you build much more knowledge on this foundation...

Don't see all this as pure 100% truth, it's just what I can percieve at the moment with my limited mind. I post it so we all can think about it and share our ideas. This is just the beginning of my journey with my guide, there can still be confusion and misinterpretation along the way, which will rapidely diminish as the contact grows stronger and clearer.

I can only emphasize what SeekingAnsers said earlier... LET GO. Be open, don't except anything, and trust yourself, your higher self, your guide.

Today I was guided out in the woods to see some trees... I talked to my guide the whole time, it's not easy at the beginning, but it is absolutely worth the effort. Just let go... at the end of my journey I was sitting on the roots of a beautiful majestic tree, a perfect place for meditation, or even only being in nature (where's the difference? :P)... maybe I'd never found this place without my guide ... it was a wonderful experience. Just let go... and don't be afraid. You all know what you have to do, and someone is there to help you...

With all my love,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 24, 2003, 20:07:37
Dear Edi,

You are absolutely right, in the way you describe Telepathy coming into the head......in fact, it comes in as symbols, as 'packages'...... and those relate to a persons perception - what they can talk about at that time (and as you say, if you're not a mathematician, then you dont' have a maths sub-set.........so everything has to be by analogy to something else (no bad thing, actually, because most earth-disciplines are 'rigid' and have a tendency to polarisation of thought).  Thus, Telepathy is truly independent of langauge, even culture... and the person relates from their perception.  That is why it is important to be fully 'open' and receptive to all new things.....absorb like a sponge, all that the guide presents... without bringing in the conditioned 'intellect'.

The brain has a 'buffer' area...... rather like where the characters go in the computer after they've been typed in, and before you press <ENTER> OR <RETURN>  Each 'package' that comes in via Telepathy is unpacked and put into that buffer in its de-tokenised form - that is, trasformed into the particular language of choice (you can request to receive in any language you know), and the whole thing then makes 'sense' to you.  The only things that can't be sent as symbols are such as names etc.  so they are sent as 'literals'... literally spelled out letter by letter (the analogy here would be 'text' on a web page and graphics 'packaged' format - so that you can 'picture' what can't be put into words).

Another time, I'll write more about this.  Just a pen-sketch for now, and I just thought I'd let you know.  You're doing excellent !

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 24, 2003, 22:07:13
Mayatnik,

I'm still waiting for my pendulum to arrive by mail.  I should have it by the end of this week.  I've been hesitant to make one while I wait because I don't want to get attached to my homemade one and then have the one I paid for arrive.  Silly probably.

But all of the recent talks about guides made me realize that I think I have been doing basic pendulum-type yes or know communication with my guide for a few months now.

It usually happens when I am at a point where I need to make a decision and I'm not sure what to do.  And I say in my head, "Goddess, should I stop at the bookstore and poke around after work?"  The response that I get is hard to explain, but it is sort of like a face nodding yes or no, but without the face.  It's just the motion of yes or no.  I had been starting to actually rely on it until one time it freaked me out by sort of having a tantrum.  I wish I could remember what my question was that time.  But anyway, at that time I decided that it must just be my mind playing tricks on me, an overactive imagination.

But now, in the light of your pendulum instructions and the results that others here have been getting with not just the pendulum but actual telepathy, I'm beginning to believe that my yes/no communications were actually a basic telepathy with my guide.

Maybe I should do the recommended pendulum exercises to the nodding in my head phenomenon and see what results I get.  What do you think?

Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: cainam_nazier on June 25, 2003, 00:28:59
removed to avoid confusion


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 25, 2003, 05:36:32
quote:
Originally posted by SeekingAnsers

quote:
Originally posted by cainam_nazier

This you may find interesting.  As suggested above I have been using the pendulum while reading. In fact while reading this thread.  For the most part I get a good solid "yes" or "true" swing.

The interesting part comes in when I read comments that are geared towards a certain individual.  Almost all of them have produced a "NO" responce.  However I am not saying that these statements geared towards the individual at the time are false.  But the feeling that goes along with it is that the "NO" answer is in regards of how it applies to me.

Which gives me an idea for anyone else who maybe doing the same.  The "yes/no" responce given while reading may not always be a "true/false" reading.  But rather it strikes me that the "true/false" reading is only how it applies to you.  Thus being that the statement is not "false" but rather it does not apply to you.

Most recently this happened when Mayatnik gave a specific comment to 13.  When I read over it I got a "no/false" but not because it was not true but because it was not intended for me.



Ok very intresting but not sure were uv got that infomation. i must point out that your guide is not there to serve you blindly, she will test you, its far more worth your benifit reading whats here for yourself, thats what its here for. it wud be terrible if you were tested on a peice of infomation you really cud have benifited from and you get stuck behind everyone for a few weeks untill you work such a problem. i advise you check some of our previos posts it will help you to understand others experiances

thank you

Samuel.   and my loving Guide: MASHWAY
  xxxx               xxxx



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 25, 2003, 08:51:52
quote:
Originally posted by 13

Thanks Mayatnik. I understand what you're saying and will take the instructions you provide at face value and see how my own work with the pendulum develops. My goal was not to cast doubt on the truth of your methods - I just have a regular habit of open questioning. I find that, especially in areas of higher knowledge, any time questions are discouraged the knowledge is suspect and does not stand on it's own merits, relying on 'authority'. But I recognise the need to adhere to a system to get the proper benefits, so will continue with the instructions as you have given them above. I am always interested in learning more, friend, and will let you know if I receive a Sign as mentioned by your guide.



well thats no problem at all 13, you no iv just had a great idea!! how about you go start a topic on your magical new method and dont post your ways here to cause absulate caos to the people who actully want to learn how to use the pendulum proply,

After a long talk with my guide and checking with MAYATNIK’s guide, Mayatnik and me were both told by our guides that they were very pleased with all the posts from the people serios about learning, and as the guides read your post both of our guides said they were VERY upset with ur ignorance to THEIR tool, we are under instructions to teach people this method and suffer from great difficulty when they read other people discribing there way of playing GAMES with it, This method is not for games, its for learning. Then after bein told how to use this tool, uv insisted u prefer it as a toy. i can asure you, you cause great problems for us when people who just want to learn stumble across jargon like this, i suggest you goto page1 and read the history behind your "TOY".

Please do not disrespect the SPECIES that cumnicate with us fru this tool its not the point of this topic and sends out a terrible message from Mayatnik and ME. i hope this is clear and understood, i think what your after has more realtion to a ouji board, thank you for your time and intrest but PLEASE go read the hole of page1.from there if u want to learn please come back and post it will be more than a pleasure to teach you. i dont think your aware of the upset uv caused to the Guides. thease things arnt for us to control nor to pretend we can, it is not your higherself you are speaking to as many are starting to learn, it is a Species that WILL take offence and will use me to strongly defend its proper use, all they want to do is reveal these instructions to EVERYONE so that people can learn freely with this reliable method they have given.

I know many shall look at this and think im being a tad harsh but please remember i have full mental cumnicational skills with my guide and she is not happy to see such abuse of there tool.
I have been asked to type this by instruction of my guide.

Samuel. and my loving guide MASHWAY  


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on June 25, 2003, 10:36:21
quote:
Seeking Ansers wrote:
both of our guides said they were VERY upset with ur ignorance to THEIR tool,


Hmmm...
Should we have second thoughts about working with guides who have anger management problems.

Mayatnik,
What do you think about Seeking Ansers post?

Lasher


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 25, 2003, 12:39:52
Lasher-
I completely agree. I re-read the posts by 13 and didn't see anything in there which I would interpret as derogatory or negative attitude.

And in fact, I completely agree with 13's last post regarding suspicion of higher knowledge. That's exactly what I have been doing. I do not take anything for what its being presented as and in fact would fully encourage people to always question things. I personally also get very nervous when questionning and validation attempts are frowned upon. In fact, if the information coming through is Truth, then the opposite should be encouraged.

I appreciate your motive for the post SeekingAnswers, but I do not perceive 13's post to be counter productive to this thread. In fact, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't accept things because I've been told to. And in all honestly, I have no intention of acting on any of the information provided until I have some kind of 'waking life' sign or proof that tells me otherwise. I will continue to question and evaluate the responses that I receive until that moment arrives. From my 'conversations' with my higher self, this is not only expected, but 'signs' have apparently already been put into the works before this thread started.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 25, 2003, 13:04:52
LOL [:P]...Seeking Answers, perhaps your 'guides' misunderstood me, yes? [:)] As I said before, I'm not seeking to throw doubt on anyone's knowledge or practices, and I respect Mayatnik's guidance. But the hostile and authoritarian tone in your reply tells me a lot - I think, to be perfectly frank, you are 'divining' the contents of your own psyche. If you had a wide enough experience of various channeling methods and the entities being channeled, you would know how common this is. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you should seriously question a being of 'higher intelligence' that reacts like they have been personally injured when their teachings are probed... I am talking from experience, I have spoken with many guides and entities, and they are very much alike - they all hate to be questioned, they are all speechless when proof is shown that their knowledge is false, and they all behave erratically thereafter. I hope yours is different. I have only a few times encountered higher beings who enjoy questioning, in fact their answers are so good as to remove all further doubt and the need for questions... in fact they openly joke with me about my questioning nature. That sort of being has my respect, not the one which you so emotionally 'channeled'. Remember, the Truth is your soul has the Divine Spark within it, you yourself are a Being of the highest order - you are inferior to noone, and any being which asserts superiority or mandatory authority is not worthy of the attention of Truth-seeking individuals.

As for Mayatnik and Karek, I spoke with a being who claimed to be Karek tonight, who passed me a brief message. I will wait for Mayatnik's response on this, since if it was his guide then she will pass on a message from me and he can quickly establish publicly that such channeled guides are more than peoples' own psyches. If it wasn't, then the pendulum has apparently told a lie, which has the same conclusion, ie. an objective proof of the character and ability of guides will be made one way or another. In fact, if Karek knows me and has mentioned there is a Sign for me, surely she would know my initials? This alone would convince me of the ability of such pendulum-channeled entities.

Please don't interpret my probing as pessimistic tyre-kicking...but I have learnt over time and with experience to fully explore the integrity of channelings. The fact that super-physical communication happens does *not* indicate the nature of what is on the other side, be it pendulum, ouija, full mediumship, etheric touch, etc. You might find Robert Bruce has adopted a similar approach, given the many entities he has also been in contact with over the years. The only way forward is rigorous and honest questioning...I'm sorry friend if you don't see that, but clinging to a comfortable belief that is unproven is called 'religion'...


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 25, 2003, 17:54:52
IMPORTANT –
PLEASE READ FULLY.


Throughout this thread, I have consistently stressed that EVERYTHING should be questioned rigorously, and that this is the object of learning to use the Pendulum, and yet I am appalled to see this raised as an issue implying that questioning is somehow not only frowned upon but stamped upoon.  And, seeing as I am the one who brought the full instructions of how to use this ‘advanced’ method (as it has been termed by my guide, who gave me by Telepathy all this Knowledge specifically to pass on), it therefore points by implication directly to myself as having such an ‘agenda’ as to restrict open questioning, directly or indirectly.

The careful reader of this thread cannot fail to see the importance of methodolgy in making sure that questions have the maximum possible freedom whilst at the same time ensuring repeatability so that others may check results.  Far from being a restrictioon the ‘guidelines’ set out for this - and a very apt term, because it was the guides who originally, many thousands of years ago, brought these rules to the earth for man to use and explore his spirituality – are very well structured to enable inner development.  Of even more crucial importance to have in place are the definitions of the actual movements, since, without a clear understanding of these,  answers may be given any meaning according to what the person feels should be the ‘correct’ interpretation of that movement.  Whilst there is provision for reprogramming movements, it is advisable, my guide tells me, for the beginner to stick with the ‘basic’ movments (two of these are not ‘assigned’ in any case so can if required by utilized for programming anyway).  However, one particular movement that should not be reprogrammed is the circular movement or <SEARCH> mode (this is adequately explained in several posts, so I shall not repeat this here).

I was alarmed that members may get confused when a post appeared penned by a member named “13”, redefining the <SEARCH> mod> based on his ‘kowledge’ picked up. But, worse was the fact that this had been replaced by an incredulous <MAYBE> meaning ascribed to it, which is totally nonsensical and illogical in the extreme, since it aborts the search in progress for the answer requested and assumes this ‘maybe’  answer in its place, effectively throwing away any knowledge there to be gained.  I had assumed that the member in question was reasonably educated in such matters and I could explain his faulty ‘reasoning’ to him, and that we could all benefit from this with his added input to this thread.

I realise now that, in the light of what I can only describe as an ‘attack’ mode of ooperation, I expended far too much energy in trying to give a summary of what should have been apparent had the member read through the thread – which he admitted he had not done.  This cavalier approach is not indicative of a desire to embrace something new (which it obviously was) with openness to learn until such time as a considered viewpoint could be reached.

With regard to the ‘question’ of guides in all of this, what is put forward in the post of “13” above, it is an insult to any guide - when it has already been not only asserted but explained in great detail (again, presumably unread)- for a person to doubt the integrity of such Beings, having bestowed this considerable knowledge for the benefit of Mankind in giving the ability to be able to ascertain the Truth….. especially  when it can be clearly seen on inspection that it is a fully ‘open’ system of Divination, and furthermore of Ancient Origin.  Needless to say, the Truth of which I speak is easily verifiable by using the proper method, as set out in this thread.

“13” sums up his post above with the comment  addressed to me:
<< “The only way forward is rigorous and honest questioning...I'm sorry friend if you don't see that, but clinging to a comfortable belief that is unproven is called 'religion' “ >>

Well, I’m sorry that you feel this way in the light of facts you clearly don’t know, and had you read all the thread you would have known: Namely, that what is presented here is not a ‘belief’, but is the actual words of my guide given lovingly, and placed on these pages by myself as the  chosen channeled ‘vehicle’ – a job to which I have dedicated my life, and this labour of love on behalf of the Higher realms offered freely to all who seek.  “13” has referred to Pendulum Channeling, as if to imply that my knowledge comes from the Pendulum.  The ‘Advanced’ Pendulum method, as given here, is only a starter and nothing more, but it is a starter of Truth Divination.  It is not, and has never been ascribed the function of, a Channeling medium.  I do not, myself, use the Pendulum; I merely teach it.  And, for the last 7 years I have exclusively channeled via the medium of instant Telepathy with my Pleiadian guide, and in that time I have spent considerably more that 30,000 hours in ‘conversation’ and Teaching from that High Being of Light, covering such topics as the True Origin of Man and all that the guides have done upon this earth since and will continue to do – all of this in great depth, which I channel when asked to be a vehicle for that Knowedge.

So, it is not in any way a belief, and far from comfortable sometimes to be mocked by those who can only stand and sneer in ignorance.  I would suggest that you, “13”, read far more widely and eclectically before making sweeping judgements.  And, in view of the sheer incalcitrance of your latest post, I can only say that, in my considered opinion, that you, sir, are not only insufferably impudent, but also Arrogant in the extreme.  For this reason, I no longer wish to share this website with you.

Regettably for other members with whom it has been a pleasure to share these pages, I shall no longer be with you.  I shall miss you, dear friends. and all the more for what I might yet have given in the words of my channeling, and which now will never be said.  This is the wish of my guide, Karek.  God Bless and Take Care !

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
Edward Angelu
Channeling as MAYATNIK.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: greatoutdoors on June 25, 2003, 18:26:57
I must throw in my two-cents on behalf of 13. To test for truth is no crime, and to refrain from following blindly is no sin. Mayatnik raises some interesting questions for me, and I am in the process of testing the pendulum myself. But she and SeekingAnswers worry me just a bit. Their comments are full of "my guide forbids" or "my guide instructs". Are they slaves, then, to these guides? That's been a big problem for me with most established religions. It's all about divine love, so long as you abide precisely by the tenants of that "God". But dire things will befall should you fail to be a good little soldier. And for anyone who doesn't believe as you do, well, look out!

Bottom line, hang in there 13, and keep the healthy skepticism going - and never mind starting your own thread unless you want to!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: travelinbob on June 25, 2003, 21:07:32
May I propose an experiment for testing this matter. (I use the pendulum and I like to test it once in a while just to make sure I am not fooling myself.)

The experiment is as follows:

Take two pitchers of water. In one dissolve some sugar. In the other dissolve some salt. Take a some glasses and fill half with the salt water and half with the sweet water.

Arrange at random in front of you. (Preferably have someone help you arrange them so you can not know which is which).

Use the pendulum to determine,one at a time, which is salt water and which is sugar water. Take one glass from the bunch and ask the pendulum to give you a yes if it is salt water. (Or a yes if it is sugared water, makes no difference). Taste the water and record if the penulum is right. Do with all glasses. And determine percentage of right awnsers. And share the results.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on June 25, 2003, 21:35:18
quote:
Originally posted by greatoutdoors

I must throw in my two-cents on behalf of 13. To test for truth is no crime, and to refrain from following blindly is no sin. Mayatnik raises some interesting questions for me, and I am in the process of testing the pendulum myself. But she and SeekingAnswers worry me just a bit. Their comments are full of "my guide forbids" or "my guide instructs". Are they slaves, then, to these guides? That's been a big problem for me with most established religions. It's all about divine love, so long as you abide precisely by the tenants of that "God". But dire things will befall should you fail to be a good little soldier. And for anyone who doesn't believe as you do, well, look out!

Bottom line, hang in there 13, and keep the healthy skepticism going - and never mind starting your own thread unless you want to!



You see it in a somewhat extreme way. The guides are here for you to learn what they can teach you. If you don't want to learn, or if you need more time to establish trust in this type of communication - it's no problem at all. Nobody will punish you, no 'dire things will befall you'. It's an offer which you can accept and reject at any time, it's your free decision. Mayatnik dedicated his life to channeling from his guide - does this mean he is a slave? Cooperation is not repression... but do you see the sense in him and others wanting to agree with their guides? Like ... If you're told a secret and you pass it on, you won't be told any secrets until trust is reestablished.

But this is drifting off... we are here to discuss our first steps with the pendulum, so I'd be happy to see this confusion calm down. I feel that by sharing our experiences many things will get clearer. 13, how are you getting on with the pendulum? Please note that I appreciate your criticism as a necessary counterbalance to immoderate enthusiasm which could possibly arise... but neiter of them will get us anywhere on it's own.

With all my love,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Serenity1 on June 26, 2003, 00:55:06
Thanks Edi [8D]
I agree with your calm outlook on this.
I'm not progressing in leaps and bounds but am enjoying the little bit I'm learning each day for now. Would love to here how others are getting along.[:)]
My progress
(my Pendulum/Guid likes listening to music Carlos Santana -Smooth)
I was sitting listening to the CD with a cup of coffy and picked up the Pendulum and held it and consciously listened to the lyrics to see if it acknoweledged what was being said in the lyrics and it started swinging longer YES swings (5 inches)than what I have been getting normaly (1 inch)so far.This follows and lead on from what someone said [:)]about playing a letter gessing game in a previous post, and surprised me to get this positive response.

Hope this subject keeps going cause I'm getting more success from this than my attempts at AP etc.

Cheers all.[:D]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: greatoutdoors on June 26, 2003, 01:02:51
Travelinbob, great idea about the water glasses! That should show in short order if it's working or not -- and our taste buds will be the judge! It may take awhile for me to arrange, but I will do it and let you know the result. 13, hopefully, you will do the same. Comparing our results should be informative!

Edi, I don't pretend to be an expert, more like rank amateur. I know there is, call it a "cosmic energy field", for lack of a better word (I can sense it), and I know we can pick up thoughts from others (I've done it, not on purpose). I've had one OBE, so I know that, too, is possible. And I want to know MORE!!

This is the first time I've ever gotten involved in a website forum, because the ones I've seen 'til now have been so obviously phoney. But R. Bruce is giving every indication of being what I've been trying to find for a long time -- someone interested in the knowledge and the sharing, and not money or ego.

I still feel a little like the wolf who sees the steak and but looks for the arsenic that's usually in it. But I so much appreciate you folks out there willing to discuss and converse and would ask that you humor me just a bit. Maybe we can all contribute and learn from each other. THANKS ROBERT!



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 26, 2003, 02:07:24
Umm, real quick, why not just use something much easier than water and such...like...the cup and ball gag.  Get like 3 cups (all equal) and put anything under one of them.  Then shuffle blindly or get someone else (just figure it out so that you can't know.) Then ask.  Easier than drinking SALT water :X

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 26, 2003, 06:47:18
Thanks Lasher, Novice and GreatOutdoors for the vote of support. I really don't want to make the discussion into a battle, and while I have my own processes for learning and testing, I do my best to respect anyone's right to their beliefs.

Mayatnik, I'm sorry you feel that way. Frankly friend, it is your problem, not mine. I've never been discourteous, and always tried to keep the discussion on a logical, enquiring basis, but you have become aggressive and personal. There is no need to be. Is it really me you are angry with? I know you have dedicated your life to channeling, and have built a great relationship with Karek, but can I ask if you have absolutely verified beyond any doubt the information Karek (and others) give you? I realise the great appeal that channeling "higher information" from "superior alien races" has. In my experience with several forms of divination, as well as my own trance and astral contacts, I have met a wider variety of "Intelligences" (some of them not worthy of the name) and so am not as trusting by default. I followed your instructions closely, and my pendulum makes discrete and verifiable moves. I am convinced of the ability of it as a communication tool. But mystifying it and making it almost a religious practice is unrealistic. It is a *mediumship* ability, like anything else, whether automatic writing, in-body channeling, ouija, etc. They *all*, without exception, use the same basis of etheric manipulation by a foreign entity. For a person trained in astral- or mental-plane wandering, they can converse with such beings in their natural habitat, as could also happen OBE. However to gain a physical manifestation, they do not inherently have matter of a physical or etheric density, thus they need to borrow it from humans. A medium provides this from their own etheric stores, or draws it in from the external environment, allowing the being to manipulate physical objects by applying their will to the loaned etheric matter. This is not new, nor am I inventing it - read any good mediumship book written in the last 100 years. The ethical and intellectual capabilities of the being will *always* *always* vary, and unless one is clairsentient enough to perceive the energy signature (identity) of the being in question, one is neer sure, despite the assurances of the being (ie, Are you my Higher Self? Are you Karek?)

I have worked with the pendulum several times a day since beginning, and last night I asked to speak to Karek. After several moments the pendulum stopped moving, then started circling which I intuited as another entity coming through. I asked if this was Karek - she said Yes. I asked several questions related to your posts and SeekingAnswers posts - most of the answers validated what you had said. Several disagreed with it. I asked if Karek would speak to you soon, and if she could pass on a message from me. Obviously, either she didn't pass on the message, or the being I talked to wasn't Karek (surprise, surprise). I genuinely have an interest in all forms of spiritual learning, and I have not made any effort in my posts to discuss my experience in various areas - it is not an ego battle nor do I want to make it one. I am happy to be the humble student for any new lesson. I performed a pendulum test just now to continue my enquiries on it all - however this time I was very very strict and entirely objective in my questioning. This is an example of the simplest form of objective test for any channeled entity....

13: To indicate your presence, please give me a strong Yes signal
P: indicates Yes
13: I am not sure of your identity, but I will abstractly refer to you as the Pendulum, and treat your knowledge and ability as that of the pendulum generally, not that of any single entity. Do you understand?
P: Yes
13: I am going to perform an experiment to confirm your precognitive ability. Do you concede to such an experiement?
P: Yes
13: Do you have the ability to know, predict and accurately advise on the future, as I understand time?
P: Yes
13: To confirm, you have the ability to read the future, including my particular future?
P: Yes
(I wanted a confirmation, since entities such as Karek have told me to expect a "Sign" indicating they were aware of my future)
13: Do you have access to the Akashic records in either astral or mental density?
P: Yes, the circle (SEARCH)
13: (Figuring out a rephrase, limiting to a single question) Do you have access to the Akashic records on an astral density?
P: Yes
13: So you can navigate the Akasha to become aware of future probabilities?
P: Yes
13: Do you have access to them now?
P: Yes
13: In that case, can you read the very immediate future?
P: Yes
13: Then let us begin the experiment. I will choose 3 cards from the major arcana (lying on my desk). I will pick 3 at random, lay them face down, and ask you to navigate to the future (when I turn them over) and tell me whether they are numbered even or odd. You have a 1 in 8 chance of random success, but I will take success as proof of your ability. Do you understand this experiment?
P: Yes
(Chose and laid out 3 cards face down)
13: (Laying my hand on the first card) If this card is numbered Even, signal Yes, if it is Odd, signal No. For any other response, such as inability to continue, please remain still.
P: signalled Yes, indicating EVEN
13: To confirm, you signalled the first card to be EVEN. If this is correct, please circle clockwise.
P: circles clockwise
13: (Repeating question and confirmation process with 2nd card)...signal Yes for Even, No for Odd?
P: signalled Yes, indicating EVEN
13: (Repeating question and confirmation process with 3rd card)...signal Yes for Even, No for Odd?
P: signalled No, indicating ODD

So it predicted 1st card EVEN, 2nd card EVEN, 3rd card ODD. When turned over the cards were...
It predicted
1st card...16 "THE TOWER"......EVEN......(Correct)
2nd card...7  "THE CHARIOT"....ODD.......(Incorrect)
3rd card...3  "THE EMPRESS"....ODD.......(Correct)

Well, it was far from convincing, but with 2 of 3 I gave it the benefit of the doubt and repeated the experiment. I explained that it got 1 of 3 wrong, and for the first 2 minutes afterwards the pendulum was less active. This *always* happens with such entities - they know they fail and they know we know. Having had this happen many times before, I cloaked my bemusement and put on a cheery tone, and project confidence and trust to the entity, asking nicely for a second run to further explore it's predictive ability. It consented, and I performed exactly the same process (question, confirmation, etc) with the following results.

It predicted 1st card EVEN, 2nd card ODD, 3rd card EVEN. When turned over the cards were...
1st card...1  "THE MAGICIAN"........ODD.......(Incorrect)
2nd card...2  "THE HIGH PREISTESS"..EVEN......(Incorrect)
3rd card...21 "THE UNIVERSE"........ODD.......(Incorrect)

With final results at 2 out of 6 correct, I told the entity it was either lying or grossly deluded in it's predictive ability. The pendulum became silent, and I banished the being from the room and my mental sphere. Very predictable - I have had many entities claim incredible sources of knowledge, and fail on the most simple of tests, like reading a wall clock or knowing basic elements from the future. Without fail, they all pretend to be more than they are until proven otherwise, which is why it is *essential* for humans to be more assertive in their interdimensional communications. Most astral entities love the attention, and will make up very fanciful stories so long as the session continues. However, they *do* have the ability to read thoughts, which explains the great success they have with personal elements - if I had access to someone's thoughts I'd be able to put a very convincing subjective experience together if I were channeled. I've even explored this aspect further, with several people all participating. We get people to guess numbers from 1 to 10 in their head and get the entity to guess the person with the highest number, lowest number, etc. After explaining the rules several times, most entities *still* fail in the ability to apply simple logic to the contents of the minds they read. Their existence is entirely mental and emotional, they are often like children who haven't even been taught basic arithmetic, but they do excel at certain mental abilities. I mention this only to say that caution and rationality are advised in all cases. This isn't too much to ask is it? and any being of good nature and high intelligence will readily concede to this human peculiarity. Certain beings (those who are warm towards humans) actually enjoy it - it's as if a child tried to grill an adult by asking "What's 4 + 2?" The can always convincly *demonstrate* their abilities. Anything of lower ability relies on bluff and the faith shown by the diviner...

Edward - it is your choice to cease further postings. To be honest, I find it a little immature but I thank you for the knowledge you contributed in any event. If you were more open to discussion, criticism and exploration, you would be nowhere near as emotional. I guarantee you, your 'guide' Karek will not like me, nor will she like any interrogation of an objective nature. If this doesn't scream something to you, no further words of mine will. I wish you the best in your travels and higher learning friend.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 26, 2003, 07:07:45

Even though I think it seems very disrespectful to invite something in then banish it if it doesn't answer a few questions correctly It does bring up a good point about this type of thing.  Is it in fact chanelling any being out there.  I was wondering the same thing myself.. How do you know its that different from other methods of chanelling?

I guess a medium has to be reached where one isn't completely disrespectful to whatever comes through but also not completely taken by it and willing to take every bit of information the being gives as coming from the highest sources.


Wish you the best of luck Mayatnik, it was a good topic.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 26, 2003, 23:46:26
I read the post 13...and  begin the way I am, I just can't come to beleive that it is an "entity".  It does scare me not knowing who's on the other end of my pendulum, but I tend not to think about it. I mean it's been right so far.  I asked last night if I'd do good on my driving test today and I did quite well.  If it gives me bad advice then...I'll...do something....

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 00:06:56
Hi [:)]
I must appologise for not posting, iv been away,
odear it looks like "13" just drowned herself in that last post, im pleased with you all! you know how to spot a fraud,
me? atitude problem? bad temperd guide? i asure it cudnt be further from the truth. but please remember the guides are far far more intelegent than me or you, they can spot a fraud a mile off, so im orderd to deal with it, im afraid "13" is victim to far to many books,
and i asure everyone, u can ask what u like ive not implyed otherwise.
your guide is your learning experiance.but we carnt start changing the rules to the process of asking, im sorry,but the guides wont "play" as desired if you do.

again i know to many my post seemd harsh, but frauds with to much knoweldge kneed are dangeros,because there just drill people who want to learn with *rubbish*. many as i know from this forum have already relised this. i mean just check "13" last post, read and read again and you will eventually see.I do not blame "13" because as my guide says, she is a victim from to much knoledge

please remember you do not have to worship your guides at all, But to frow dissrespect at someone aiming to teach you, well whud that insult you?,i,e continualsy ask negitive qeustions and to test and to acuse etc.etc

i wish to teach you all still as i know how to teach you. but 1st you all must see "why". guides do not get angry and frow rages.that was "me" plus the infomation being channeld.

and how do i know this about "13"?? because she says shes spoke to Karek, witch is far from the truth,i asked my guide Mashway and she instantly told me this was not true in a very firm insisting mannorism, that is just a her being "lead down the garden path". they teach those who will be willing to learn and not frow it in there faces. again you will all qeustion this at 1st. but just re-read her last post and it WILL become clear. you are all doing so well, it has been placed by me to help train thos who still wish to learn. just do not be decived.

you see progresion is achieved by positivity. please put your trust in this fact. stop trying to qeustion and prove your guides.
you will only stop yourself dead in your tracks. there are guides that anser for you to learn. they do not want to keep having to provethemselfs. (whud it anoy you?)
POSSITIVITY IS THE ONLY WAY FOWARD.
KNOLEDGE IS THE WAY FOWARD. put the 2 together and you can blindly see the anser is, Trust,Qeustions,Knolegde.
otherwise you will be stuck at the point were "13" is dipiste she belives otherwise. please donot give up on your pendulums. you are all doing so well, lets move on from 13. i want to hear all your personal experiances. i want us all to progress, as we all can. we just have to beware of thos who have to much knoledge and dont know how to apply it. (as they always claim to be correct) i do not say i have telepathic guide for fun, to decive you all, im here now because i have to continue the mission to teach, this forum is far from finished. all we have to is have learnt from "13" is a "lesson". so please learn from it.

I really look foward to the futre of this forum now, i want us all to stop and share are most mindblowing and brain teasing experiances.

you are all exelent pupils, and i wud not worry about Mayatnik hes just very busy with certain "jobs", but im more than qualified to teach you all.
and you all will sucseed.

anyway its time for people to make there choice, to continue and to learn from people like "13", or to discontinue jue to the complexity of the learning procsess.

Remeber its time to ask everything from are guides fru the pendulum
(im not sure why im being told to tell that to everyone,something to do with too many people asking to many negitive qeustions)

thank you all for your time. i greatly look foward to hearing from you and your opinions on what has transpired.

with love and respect

Samuel, and my loving Guide Mashway


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tisha on June 27, 2003, 00:15:20
Folks, I've learned a lot from this string.  Especially the last few pages, when it started unraveling (pun intended).

See how easy it is to be misled?   Frankly, the title of this thread "AND THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOWN" set off danger signals in my head.  Was I the only one?  It sounded so evangelistic.  I'm not challenging the power of the pendulum or any other divination tool - - for goodness sake I'm a witch, that's what I do, work with oracles!  What I AM SAYING is that human perception, human interpretations, are imperfect, and we all have to be VERY careful about hopping on the bandwagon, even the New Age bandwagon.  Sometimes we're TOO credulous.

First, Mayatnik urges us not to adopt what he/she says blindly, that we should explore things, challenge them, and learn the truth for ourselves.  However, once faced with a genuine challenge to her presumptions (thank you 13), she gets defensive, her student gets all huffy (ego alert! ego alert!), and both parties (?) leave the discussion.

What you were witnessing was a challenge to a cherished Belief System.  Stick around, it happens a lot!

In the mean time, for those of you who wish to continue work with your pendulum(s?) - - what's the plural of pendulum? - - - please keep this in mind:

A.  There are a lot of Beings out there on the Astral, good, bad, and indifferent.  Just because it's talking to you doesn't mean it's smart.  Or good. Or that it has your best interests at heart.  You will have to determine it for yourself over time, by verifying what it tells you.  STAY AWARE.

B.  Higher beings do not get offended.  Taking offense is an affectation, and Higher Beings are simply above it. If your Astral Friend displays pride, self-importance, offense, or any other ego-driven impulse, you're dealing with a lower being who's getting his jollies off, jerking you around like a puppet for his/her own entertainment or ego-needs (what lower form wouldn't love to be worshipped!).

C.  Higher beings don't lie.  They just won't do it.  There is no motive.  They don't "test you" by lying or misleading you.  So if an Astral being jerks you around, thank it for its time and bid it adieu.

BTW, It's OK to banish unwelcome Astral visitors.  Really.  In fact, banishment a good way to communicate your unwillingness to host them again. Think about it first, though, before you burn your bridges.  Banishing something and asking its advice later can be pretty embarrasing.

ANYWAY, despite the way this thread is ending (?), I do think the information is very valuable (perhaps we could move it to Divination and Prophecy?) and we should keep it as a "sticky."

Good night, tomorrow I'm on a jet plane, won't be back for many-a-day . . .


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 00:24:49
quote:
Originally posted by Tisha

Folks, I've learned a lot from this string.  Especially the last few pages, when it started unraveling (pun intended).

See how easy it is to be misled?   Frankly, the title of this thread "AND THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOWN" set off danger signals in my head.  Was I the only one?  It sounded so evangelistic.  I'm not challenging the power of the pendulum or any other divination tool - - for goodness sake I'm a witch, that's what I do, work with oracles!  What I AM SAYING is that human perception, human interpretations, are imperfect, and we all have to be VERY careful about hopping on the bandwagon, even the New Age bandwagon.  Sometimes we're TOO credulous.

First, Mayatnik urges us not to adopt what he/she says blindly, that we should explore things, challenge them, and learn the truth for ourselves.  However, once faced with a genuine challenge to her presumptions (thank you 13), she gets defensive, her student gets all huffy (ego alert! ego alert!), and both parties (?) leave the discussion.

What you were witnessing was a challenge to a cherished Belief System.  Stick around, it happens a lot!

In the mean time, for those of you who wish to continue work with your pendulum(s?) - - what's the plural of pendulum? - - - please keep this in mind:

A.  There are a lot of Beings out there on the Astral, good, bad, and indifferent.  Just because it's talking to you doesn't mean it's smart.  Or good. Or that it has your best interests at heart.  You will have to determine it for yourself over time, by verifying what it tells you.  STAY AWARE.

B.  Higher beings do not get offended.  Taking offense is an affectation, and Higher Beings are simply above it. If your Astral Friend displays pride, self-importance, offense, or any other ego-driven impulse, you're dealing with a lower being who's getting his jollies off, jerking you around like a puppet for his/her own entertainment or ego-needs (what lower form wouldn't love to be worshipped!).

C.  Higher beings don't lie.  They just won't do it.  There is no motive.  They don't "test you" by lying or misleading you.  So if an Astral being jerks you around, thank it for its time and bid it adieu.

BTW, It's OK to banish unwelcome Astral visitors.  Really.  In fact, banishment a good way to communicate your unwillingness to host them again. Think about it first, though, before you burn your bridges.  Banishing something and asking its advice later can be pretty embarrasing.

ANYWAY, despite the way this thread is ending (?), I do think the information is very valuable (perhaps we could move it to Divination and Prophecy?) and we should keep it as a "sticky."

Good night, tomorrow I'm on a jet plane, won't be back for many-a-day . . .


No i am here was just away.

and i can see you are easly decived aswell, this has nothing to do with astral beings im afraid. all you are doing is to help decive people, i appreciate your a witch and i strongly belive in there true power, but im afraid what you have enterd is something very diffrent and the knoldge i get is not from spirit or man. it appears we were both wrighting are posts at the same time lol. i do apreciate your input, but anything learnt from witch craft is far from what is being taught here (i mean that in no offence, but there are to very diffrent things that do not fall into one another).as for Mayatnik he was teaching me to teach everyone,iv just been away. i hope this has clarifyed things for you. youve simply wanderd in on a conversation at the wrong time. [:)]
ps. guides always test you to prepare your brain to be ready to understand the true truth, again you are mistaking for somthing out of robert bruces books, (nothin to do with this, trust me lol, i have full mental cumnication with the species,but i cannot reveal there identity because its for people to learn fru there tests)
Samuel, and my loving Guide,Mashway


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 27, 2003, 00:37:54
Hmm very interesting Tisha.  Sad to see you leaving :(

I think I agree with that actually.  I don't see why they would lie in the first place...as if they have nothing better to do with their time.  Be they evil, good, or just regular, the answers shouldn't lie.  Maybe we should ask Mayatnik about this.

~Squeek

PS - How do you get a name out of them?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tisha on June 27, 2003, 00:50:47
Well, it appears that while I was typing away, SeekingAnsers made it clear he/she was still in the discussion.  HM.  SeekingAnsers, before you can teach, especially in a written format, you truly do need to learn how to spell.  

ALSO, you're new here, so you probably don't know this Forum is chock-full of very experienced people who can spot a fruad a mile away . . . and trust me, 13 is not a fraud. 13 appears new to the Forum also and I don't know him/her from Adam or Eve, but I've got a good feeling about him/her.  I doubt many people here have concluded he/she is a fraud.

However, I DON'T have a good feeling about what you're supposedly "channelling."   You feel very young and credulous and inexperienced to me, someone who would likely be too easily sucked in by a lower life form, or a teacher who is admittedly a talented channeler and an experienced oracle, but who has too much Ego to stick around and converse with other talented people who happen to disagree with him (a common affliction with students of the esoteric - - - these little snits seem to be a way of life!).

Heaven only knows why Mayatnik is allowing you, his student for whom he is responsible, to run amok on this Forum.  A good teacher would have you move more slowly, and spend more time in study and practice, rather than set you loose on an online Forum, acting like a channeller of some teacher-to-the-online-masses (please stop, I'm embarrassed for you).  You actually have a long way to go.  The Astral entity might be doing all the talking, but the channeller needs to be wise.  And wisdom does not come cheap or easy.

OK, now I'm really off line - - good night all, have fun with your pendulummmmmmzzzzz!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 01:00:12
quote:
Originally posted by Squeek

Hmm very interesting Tisha.  Sad to see you leaving :(

I think I agree with that actually.  I don't see why they would lie in the first place...as if they have nothing better to do with their time.  Be they evil, good, or just regular, the answers shouldn't lie.  Maybe we should ask Mayatnik about this.

~Squeek

PS - How do you get a name out of them?


Sqeek Guides will Never lie to you, they test you to make sure ur taking in there ansers and not just blinly beliving it, its all part of prepairing your mind and to build your knoledge, you dont just sit you exzam and come out as a telepath with full contact with your guide. nothing is serverd to you, you have to earn it if you really want.

i feel i must explain what status is, status is somthing you earn the more you work out and learn, and the more status you have the more you can be told, were as Mayatnik had 8years of status he can anser things in full blown pages of useful infomation, were my infomation that my guide channels fru me is cut majorly down to what the person "KNEEDS" to know, but if im ever lost i always Mayatnik to turn to, to help you,

 Sqeek you are getting the wrong impression of what this is all about, i sugest u read old posts m8, this page is a test for us to learn and not a good place to jump in on to gather opinoins,

this really has nothing to do with higherselves,spirits,subconcios, thease coments have only been put by people trained in diffrent subjects who are trying to make sence of this with what they know. rule 1. forget what u do know to learn this (dont forget it period.just dont try to intergrate it with this or youl be as confused as "13". thanks for your time on the posts.


Samuel and my loving Guide, Mashway


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Nick on June 27, 2003, 01:10:33
Tisha,

There is nothing I can add to what you wrote. You perfectly described exactly what I was feeling about this thread. Well said!    [8D]

Very best,


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 01:14:56
quote:
Originally posted by SeekingAnsers

quote:
Originally posted by Tisha

Well, it appears that while I was typing away, SeekingAnsers made it clear he/she was still in the discussion.  HM.  SeekingAnsers, before you can teach, especially in a written format, you truly do need to learn how to spell.  

ALSO, you're new here, so you probably don't know this Forum is chock-full of very experienced people who can spot a fruad a mile away . . . and trust me, 13 is not a fraud. 13 appears new to the Forum also and I don't know him/her from Adam or Eve, but I've got a good feeling about him/her.  I doubt many people here have concluded he/she is a fraud.

However, I DON'T have a good feeling about what you're supposedly "channelling."   You feel very young and credulous and inexperienced to me, someone who would likely be too easily sucked in by a lower life form, or a teacher who is admittedly a talented channeler and an experienced oracle, but who has too much Ego to stick around and converse with other talented people who happen to disagree with him (a common affliction with students of the esoteric - - - these little snits seem to be a way of life!).

Heaven only knows why Mayatnik is allowing you, his student for whom he is responsible, to run amok on this Forum.  A good teacher would have you move more slowly, and spend more time in study and practice, rather than set you loose on an online Forum, acting like a channeller of some teacher-to-the-online-masses (please stop, I'm embarrassed for you).  You actually have a long way to go.  The Astral entity might be doing all the talking, but the channeller needs to be wise.  And wisdom does not come cheap or easy.

OK, now I'm really off line - - good night all, have fun with your pendulummmmmmzzzzz!


tis because of dislexia if thats ok, i try to make it as readerble as possible, and as i said before your trying to intergrate your knoledge with somthing completly diffrent,and it wont work and lead you to the conclusions u are obvisly reaching,iv learnt what i know from my guide, iv met my guide face to face, i know what they are.iv not learnt everything from a robert bruce book, (nothing against him, its just he teachs somthing completly diffrent) and anyway im not told to do this by Mayatnik, im told this is my next job by who i meet and cumnicate with fru teleapty, so what your trying to say is someone with dislexia has to wait till his next life time to reveal the truth to people because of his spelling!!!. and yet u seem to b portraying me as "young" and "ignorant".hmmm, im getting quite confused as how many diffrent ways im going to have to word this and say it before you understand that this is very diffrent to what you know.

Samuel, and my loving Guide Mashway



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 27, 2003, 01:17:01
I have been and still am impressed with mayatniks posts which were filled with detail and helpful information.  

New age thought really relies on this type of "knowing" exactly how higher beings are and the fact they lack emotion.  Its as if we're so arrogant we feel we should treat them however we want and they should prove they're higher by not being offended.

Other religions even many Asian beliefs which believe in all types of differet spirits teach respect for spirits and I dont think there's anything wrong with that.  However, if the entity I was chanelling got angry I would probably stop channelling it.  I think if it wouldnt leave it would be okay to "banish" it.  I wouldnt test it though and say it was deluded then banish it.  Course I have no interest in being a Majician and I really dont understand the purpose of that.  Unless I understood everything there was to know and every consequence, I think there's too much you have to assume or rely on books which may or may not be true.

I can see both sides of this and how a person with a great deal of respect for their guides would be offended.  However I think spirits and guides can take care of themselves so if what 13 is doing is wrong then the "guides" just wont go to her.  Its a personal thing between them so I dont see the reason to get mad at her.. even though my first reaction was "how arrogant".  I think this thing is being kinda blown out of proportion now which is a shame because there is a lot of info there.  

BTW I work with some people who have problems reading and writing and you do a good job expressing yourself seekinganswers.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 01:26:17
BTW I work with some people who have problems reading and writing and you do a good job expressing yourself seekinganswers.

Why thank you i do try. I do see but u see she has not spoken to Karek and to claim things like that is terrible, Guides pick things up like that up before they have to say it. My guide never got angry but I did so i put a mix of the 2 together, if u continue to learn the pendulum ul learn WHY it has nothing to do with spirit body or mind, but till then i just have to fight a 1sided war lol, thanks for your open mindedness, its gratly kneeded, im taking alota slate here lol. I will keep replying for my guide till my fingures fall off [xx(]. heres somthing for you to think about witch is very true and certainly somthing U will understand.

Wisdom does not come from a book........ some of the greatest wisdom
came come from the mouth of a child......and it can come from Channeling, even when a person has NEVER read a book in their
lives.....and that's how many channelers are
 



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 27, 2003, 01:56:13
seekinganswers,

I understand more where you are coming from since you're learning the pendulum and maybe you felt 13 was disrespecting your "Mentor".  However, I dont understand Why the teacher would get as offended.  Surely Mayatnik must be used to being asked questions as a teacher, unless his/her pupils arent allowed to ask questions.
If that's the case thats a sign of something.  And you should at least be aware of that as the student.

I also think it isnt right you're sitting here dealing with this issue while he/she comes on to read the thread but doesn't respond.  I would definitely let mayatnik speak for themselves.  As your Mentor I would think he (I really need to start reading profiles) would be the one to defend the thread or tell you to let it be.  That does make me a little suspicious.  

Best of luck


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 27, 2003, 02:02:14
No no no I did read all the posts here...  I was just asking because of what the new posts said too.  Last night I actually got alot more out that I can remember.  These are the highlights.

Are you my guide?  -  Yes.
Are you a male guide?  -  No.
So then you are a female guide?  -  Yes.

Do you like the same music I like?  -  (a bit indifferent...then) No.

Will I do well on my driving test tomorrow?  -  Yes.

That was a good one.  I'm assured to do it again tonight.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 02:10:36
lol now this is the problem, there was more to the tiff than the public saw,
now you must  understand Mayatnik is not allowed to interfere, iv been told to instruck him to that,as i was told that by my guide b4 he told me he kudnt, this is somthing i must do, i havt to rebuild and re-teach, 13 was told in forum and in private just how much it offended what we were teaching, after many atempts of trying to make her aware she wud not, so she diliberatly went against after being aware of the disrespect. But jue to the many ways you can veiw her opoinion every1 started jumping in and it got out of hand,

Thats hard for people to see, she was treated fair for dispite her atitiude but after much comprimise i was instruckted to talk to her by my guide and kinda fliped MYSELF.
i understand what your saying, but its yesterdays news im afraid. u and many did not see everything. i have to rebuild the faith whilst Mayatnik starts his new job for the guides,
witch is 10 times harder than myn. My guide said that this is my job, we are given jobs goingslow,I have to now teach everyone because i am ready. but u see "13"s post has opend sooo much post towards all this mind,body,soul,astral wild life,low life crap (it isnt crap but does in no way apply here) and made the hole thing alot more confusing.

I hope you can begin to understand this. im trying to teach everyone the truth. but many people can make it very hard and get there own BOOK READ beleifs and confuse the hole thing. i hope this has helped

thank you for your intrest

Samuel,my loving Guide Mashway


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 02:18:05
Niceone Sqeekz
Deffitnly on the right path, its not all lessons and i assure you u have nothing to worry about, the entitys others regard to come out of robert bruce books, i asure you this is somthing that whud never halm you in a million years. They dont even have the emotion to back it up. Sounds like your doing exelent, look foward to hearing about your progress in the futre,

remember progress comes from Asking Positive Qeustions,Not what u read ina book. goodluck

Samuel, Chanelld fru my loving Guide, Mashway


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on June 27, 2003, 03:22:59
Come on people iv been scRaping all night now and its time to move on.
I want the most intressting storys or some of the BIGGEST MADEST adventure or something MAJOR uv discoverd on the pendulum and i want everyone who uses one to get involved please


REMEMBER YOU WILL ONLY PROGRESS BY ASKING POSITIVE QEUSTIONS!!!!!

ASKING NEGITIVE QEUSTIONS (LIKE REPEATADLY ASKING HER/HIM TO PROVE THEMSELVES, WILL ONLY HALT YOUR LEARNING PROGRESS.

ASK EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING YOU CAN POSSIBLE THINK OF THATS GOOD. YOU ALL KNOW THE DRILL

BUT I WANT TO KNOW THE MOST AMAZING STORY THAT SOMEONES GOT TO SHARE
                  [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]
LETZ JUST COME TOGETHER INSTEADA DEBATING FOR 5MINS. MANY RE LEARNING VERY WELL AND BECAUSE OF DEBATERS THEY AINT GETTING TAUGHT


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 27, 2003, 05:01:38
Tisha - I realise you'll be afk when I post this, but I wanted to thank you, as another practitioner, for voicing reason and careful thought in what is otherwise devolving into a belief system argument. I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify my gender too [:p] - although my buddies would say otherwise, last time I checked I was very definitely male. But I appreciate SeekingAnswers cute distraction on that point [:)]

There really isn't much to add - some of us have diverged from logical "point, counterpoint" discussion to derogatory personal remarks and emotional defence of belief systems. If anyone thought what I've written is illogical, or the product of imagination, they were free to say so. I am new on this forum, but have more experience in this area than I bother saying, and the reality is that astral inhabitants are no different to physical inhabitants - a vast assortment of capability, intelligence and ethics. Tisha knows this and I can tell is a practitioner also. I have spoken with several other very experienced practitioners about channeled entities, with exactly the same opinions. I encourage people to *objectively* test and validate the communicating beings - there is no other way to be sure. I'm convinced that speaking with high beings is possible, but without any sort of validation, divination is open to misuse from the other side. This is, neither fortunately nor unfortunately, simply the way it is. Remember that people who aggressively and emotionally defend their beliefs always have a lot to lose if their beliefs are wrong...

As for banishing, noone should feel that that is rude - it's how beings are shown the door. An entity which openly and intentionally lies to me is neither welcome nor tolerated, and a swift kick in the pants on the way out is fully warranted I feel. On the other hand, beings who demonstrate genuine ability and rapport I am very very courteous and obliging to.

I feel this discussion should continue nonetheless, since valuable information is still available via the pendulum and other divination methods. In fact, rather than be dominated by belief systems, we have the chance to do very interesting and objective group divinations and any number of pre- or post-cognitive experiments. "Avante garde" research is the true spirit of metaphysical learning, not "Thou shalt do as I say" religious beliefs. SeekingAnswers and Mayatnik are not the first 'new age' religious thinkers I have met, and I won't fall for the trap of debating belief systems. So instead, I'd like to see if anyone is interested in conducting objective experiments on pendulum work, and to use the group consensus or majority as validation of certain information. You never know what is possible...last night I got the pendulum to speak to me in English through a code I developed ad hoc, then and there. There really is no fixed vocabulary between intelligent beings - it is as the practitioner decides.

As for you Samuel...do you think my knowledge is from books only? I guarantee you I have more experience with entities than you are aware of - I can see from your infantile posts exactly how much you know. If your guide is truly All-Knowing, and in particular is aware of me, then I give you one simple test - what is my name? or even my initials? Ask your guide and tell me what it says...I know it will have no answer, or will refuse the test. Why? Because, plainly, it is not what it makes itself out to be. It is a lower astral being...hardly a "loving guide". I will do my best to cloak my true initials and reveal a false set - if your guide comes up with them then I will know it has some ability, but only minor talent at negotiating thought-forms. Of course, I expect you to reply with something along the lines of "This is absurd, I'm not going to even try"...Here's an idea - why don't you send me your photo and I can show you how much I've learnt from books. I have no reason to tolerate your personal remarks against me much longer. This is a forum for knowledge and growth - open discussion is natural and integral to that. Instead, you display the bigotry that would make any fundamentalist proud. Send your guide to me, I will give you a sigil for him to contact me in trance. I would enjoy talking to him [:)].

Friends, like I said, this is good knowledge, but the process of finding the Truth is always through questioning, discovery and brutal honesty - blind faith or unproven beliefs plays no part in higher learning at any level. Robert Bruce uses the phrase "Catch Basket" to explain a similar thing. It would be good to see a group pendulum divination on a future event, something we could all verify, and it would help with people's individual objective testing of higher entities...Just a thought. My fond wishes to all serious students.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on June 27, 2003, 06:11:20
13, I respect your sincere attitude and open questioning. We all can benefit from the vast experience you seem to have. I'd like to ask you: in what way is using the pendulum similar to other forms of channeling? I don't know anything about the way channeling works "technically", nor do I know enough about the "astral mechanics" of the pendulum, but I think we can all look for that information in the previous posts and try to check it for truth and explore further. Is it - from your point of view - possible or likely that any sufficiently intelligent (whatever that may be) entity which can get our attention use the pendulum to convey it's answers to us?

quote:
Originally posted by 13


There really isn't much to add - some of us have diverged from logical "point, counterpoint" discussion to derogatory personal remarks and emotional defence of belief systems.



(next snippet from an other post)



I feel this discussion should continue nonetheless, since valuable information is still available via the pendulum and other divination methods. In fact, rather than be dominated by belief systems, we have the chance to do very interesting and objective group divinations and any number of pre- or post-cognitive experiments. "Avante garde" research is the true spirit of metaphysical learning, not "Thou shalt do as I say" religious beliefs.



I totally agree with what you say here. So let's see what everyone can contribute. By the way, you too have your "religious" beliefs, your view of the world, based on a life on experience, which you all defend, and which is your right to. Let's merge all our beliefs to see the truth.

Seekingansers, in regard to 'all this mind,body,soul,astral wild life,low life crap' you said 'it isnt crap but does in no way apply here'. You expect people to believe you. Maybe there would never have been a need to have this discussion we are having now and everyone would have progresses in a different way than now. But actually, we took a path where there are questions which have a right to be answered. Previous knowledge always has an effect on what you percieve, what decisions you make, and how you treat things. Having no knowledge at all would maybe be the best way to learn what the pendulum has to teach, I could imagine that Mayatnik expected the readers here to absorb what they can learn and to integrate it in their life, and wasn't the one to discuss in detail how it fits into a lifelong of experience and learning which tells you other things. I don't know how he expected it to be, but as he's gone, it doesn't matter anymore, we have to continue on our own.

Seekingansers and 13 (and others who can and should contribute):

1) Who or what are we communicating with when we use the pendulum?
2) Can we be sure of it?
3) How can be be sure of it?

I feel these questions need to be cleared if we want to progress as a group and not as an individual.

With all my love,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 27, 2003, 07:09:00
Hello Edi,

quote:
We all can benefit from the vast experience you seem to have

It really isn't that extensive. I'm only in my 20's, and there is so much to learn that it is overwhelming.

quote:
in what way is using the pendulum similar to other forms of channeling?

What I believe here is a combination of direct experience, secondhand information (other practitioners) and books. My best guess is as follows..
- a human exists in all 3 planes, physical (and etheric), astral and mental simultaneously
- a being of an astral or mental density does not exist physically or etherically, so normally we do not *physically* perceive them, but they astrally and mentally perceive us. This is why I can ask a question in my head and get a response - I am communicating an astral or mental thought form to them. This is also why lower entities fail at certain pure-mental operations (like maths) which are devoid of emotional "sense" to them - they do not naturally operate on the plane, or with the mind, that thinks in pure concepts.
- there are two methods by which "oracles" (tools of divination) work. Either the tool is purely mental (ie, occurring only in the diviner's head) or it is mental/physical, requiring manifestation of an etheric density to work
- This is very much like entity evocation and summoning...a being must traverse from it's natural plane to a physical or more conscious astral plane if asked, and so it either has the ability itself to accumulate energy of the right density to do this, or it is granted by the human doing the operation. Any interdimensional communication works the same way.
- In cases where the diviner consciously or unconsciously grants etheric energy to the being, it then transfer its consciousness to such matter and gains the sense abilities at that density. It can then influence physical and physical/etheric matter for as long as it keeps its consciousness at that level.

I was genuine when I said my theory here is based on personal experience. Even last night in talking (via pendulum) to a being, I could feel the energy being drawn from up my body and out through my right arm, very noticeably and constantly. I told the entity I knew what it was doing, and said it could take what it needed as I had plenty. I projected energy to it and told it to give me a really big swing and it did exactly this. The same mechanism works for ouija. Automatic writing works when the being transfers consciousness into the etheric matter *of the limb itself* rather than just drawing etheric matter out of the diviner. Experienced 'writers' intentionally exteriorize their astral limb and give the entity full control over the etheric counterpart, all while conscious. Full mediumship (temporary possession) is the same mechanism but through the whole body. Experienced mediums also exteriorize, at their will or the will of the being, their entire astral during sessions. Needless to say, anyone of right mind would never allow such an exercise unless they had very developed will power and were sure of the intentions and capability of the entity. The humble pendulum is a simple method for mediumship.

quote:
Is it - from your point of view - possible or likely that any sufficiently intelligent (whatever that may be) entity which can get our attention use the pendulum to convey it's answers to us?

The answer to this is not simple, but the short of it is generally 'yes', afaik and imho of course. If you offer an open invitation, any entity operating in your astral vicinity and on the same natural plane that your astral resides, will be attracted. However, you can invite (through prayer, consciousness raising, etc) higher beings who can easily respond and provide their own etheric matter. I am no expert on pendulum specifically (although it's not exactly rocket science) but I have found in the 20 or so I've done so far, simply starting the pendulum without forethought is like the 'open invitation' mode, and the quality of responses has varied greatly. I have also used prayer and invocation to get (what I believe is) my higher self, or a higher being, once. If a relationship is built over time, the same entity (high or low) will develop a telepathic link to you and you can call it at will. This again is nothing new, I can do very similarly with my girlfriend - it's a product of time and mental association. It's even better with humans because you can intentionally join chakras together forming energetic channels.

quote:
By the way, you too have your "religious" beliefs, your view of the world, based on a life on experience

Absolutely!! [:)] I'm very glad someone understands the nature of the word 'dogma'. We all have our beliefs, and in one sense everyone *does* have their religion, their dogma, whether they justify it objectively/scientifically or subjectively/emotionally. There is a key difference though - it's the difference between having a dogma and being *dogmatic*. When people consider their beliefs/dogma as replaceable, and strive to learn, having no problem with 'being wrong', they may have a 'best guess' dogma, but they are not dogmatic. I have said several times I would readily change my opinion if I found I was wrong, and my method of enquiry is objective, so I do my best not to *be dogmatic*. I use the word "religious" to indicate "dogmatic", ie. emotional and rigid attachment to beliefs in the absence of evidence, or in the presence of evidence to the contrary.

quote:

1) Who or what are we communicating with when we use the pendulum?
2) Can we be sure of it?
3) How can be be sure of it?


As I said above, the answers do vary based on several things, but the possibility of high quality divinations and contact with great intelligences definitely exists, and is worth our best efforts. Some people don't like the notion of prayer, but it is effective in raising one's consciousness and invoking the right character of being. Despite one's efforts though, validation is always advised, and only when trust is *proven* should one assume one is talking to a high being. It is so easy to start channeling one day, get talking to something 'interesting', then this thing affirms your beliefs (with some alterations of it's choosing), and when the relationship grows over time, you think you're talking to the Messiah, or an alien race, or your HGA... Simple objective validation could save so much potential heartache and confusion. I've been through this myself, several time, and so learnt by experience to *prove* the nature of the beings. There are surprisingly more mischevious astral beings than you would think.. for them it is exciting and fulfilling to build delusions of grandeur - they literally *live* in their thoughts and to have the confidence of a human is incredibly significant to them.

Anyway, I don't intend to take centre stage in what is undoubtedly a group effort, and there is a lot of experience from many corners. We really should conduct a group experiment, since so many people are getting discrete pendulum activity. I like any open discussion of truths, whether people agree with me or not - it is always a learning experience. My only request is to for people to cease being dogmatic, and to be courteous and objective. Kind wishes [:)]!



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Serenity1 on June 27, 2003, 08:28:55
I'm keen to particapate,
interestingly, today my Pendulum /guide has gone very coy after giving such a positive demonstration yesterday.[?][V]
At least I've lernt I can move the thing with my mind/will[8D]even if I thinking the guide a bit suss at the moment!

Looking forward to learn more.
Thanks for the perserverence folks.[:)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 27, 2003, 10:22:27
Is this whole deal any different from actually going astral yourself and chatting with someone there?  

If so, then how is that bad.  It's a bit more since you can actually "see" them,  but still.  If you think about it it really is the same thing.  You are just chatting with someone from the astral.

Post!

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on June 27, 2003, 10:46:43
My final thought about this thread is that it has been very, very instructive and entertaining, esp when the mud started flying.
I think this thread should be placed somewhere safe and made required reading by everyone coming to this forum.

The instructive value of this thread was not so much to do with pendulums but about the dangers of ego driven beliefs and the effects that ensue when cherished belief systems come under threat from simple reasoning and/or opposing points of view.

In particular, this thread is an example of the danger of people gaining a small amount of knowledge and then going off on an evangelical crusade to convince everyone of the 'truth' of the matter. The old occult proverb 'a little knowledge is dangerous' applies here!
The fact of the matter is that the description of guides that the two main protaganists provide fall short of myself and other's experience of them, ie their description of guides that get upset and go in the huff just doesnt add up.
Also, at one point SeekingansWers states that if you insult a guide then it will go 'for good' . This again is not borne out by most people's experience of true guides.

These two contradict themselves as they advocate direct experience, (a sound strategy) but then get annoyed when others question their cherished beliefs, which we are all meant to accept as 'fact'.

At the end of the day, I agree that the pendulum is a good divining tool and can be used to contact others in the astral but while SeekingansWers and Mayatnik command that only true guides can use this form of communication, I just don't see the justification for such a statement. I see no reason whatsoever why the pendulum is not the same as any other form of oracle/divination, ie open to all and sundry like everything else. Therefore caution and common sense as always, is required.

Regards,
Douglas



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 27, 2003, 11:50:16


Personally, I found the latter part of the thread more interesting than the initial part. But, then again, my long-standing interest in psychology naturally takes precedence over any pendulum work.

It seems to me that within the confines of this thread, the "word of a guide" has turned out to be the modern-day phraseology equivalent of, "the word of God". As such, the natural extension of that line of reasoning (using two thousand years of human history as a yardstick) can only lead to fighting, ultimately: my guide is better than your guide and I'm willing to die proving it, and all that.

I'm unsure as to the general consensus but, after reading this whole thread a number of times, it does very much seem to me that Mr 13's only crime has been to politely and respectfully question the information being presented. Plus, it was mentioned about how this is a forum for knowledge and growth, and open discussion is natural and integral to that. How true. So surely, then, only people with some kind of hidden-agenda would find such notions offensive.

As such, I thought perhaps it might be helpful if those who claim to be in-touch with this race of people, would explain that to them. And could I (for one) respectfully suggest you mention in particular about how getting all huffy and puffy adds nothing to their credibility.

I'm not sure how it works on other planets, but knowledgeable people here expect a far higher standard of behaviour from those who claim to be advanced beings. If it helps, I'm within the upper Astral most mornings and they are welcome to pop along and have a chat. I'll do my best to clear up any misunderstanding directly.

Oh, and at the same time would you ask if they might reciprocate by giving me a few more hints and tips on how to get my pendulum working. :)

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 27, 2003, 12:23:41
I hope I didnt mess anything up.  I was just trying to offer my opinions on the subject.

BTW i did do it again last night.  I'll probably post the results later.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Terry B on June 27, 2003, 12:32:23
Frankly, the first part of this thread feel very different than the latter part. I found 13 questioning is okay and helpful to the thread. I also agree with much of Gandalf's last post.

I remember reading some older post regarding medium or channelling of spirit but it's very hard to find them. The following two link is some that I can find.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=599
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23

Keep the discussion going.





Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 27, 2003, 14:54:13
Just wanted to give a warm thank you to those who posted recently. I can stop holding my breath now...I was unsure whether I'd offended the entire forum by probing too much and taking the shine off such mystical and 'divine' knowledge... Hearing that there are other students who recognise the value of the objective process is assuring.

A quick note to Frank - the strength of pendulum (and other physical oracle) movement is directly related to the amount of energy the being/entity can muster in you, and the free movement of it throughout your body. Robert Bruce's NEW, combined with trance, will help you a long way in this regard. It will also help you project into the RTZ, something you've been seeking for a while I believe [;)]. Your concentration on the brow chakra is good - try extending this by raising energy throughout the whole body, and becoming aware of your whole etheric body strongly. RTZ projections from this state are much more likely - you effectively project your consciousness with enough etheric-density matter to engage etheric senses. Generally, consciousness at a particular density requires a body of matter of the same density - RTZ is pure etheric matter, made available through energy training. Higher-level astral/mental projection requires a body of higher-level (refined) astral/mental matter, gained through the course of spiritual training and/or consciousness raising. I sense you have hitherto been a little reluctant to embrace energetic training, maybe even considering it all a bit too fluffy or 'new age' to bother with, and/or just peripheral to your current projection work. Give it a try, you have everything to gain [:)].

To the group, definitely keep the pendulum work and discussion going... it is fertile. The mad scientist in me is thinking up some really cool group experiments to try, especially combined with other divination abilities and protocols I use, I'm just not sure of the interest level, and if people wouldn't prefer that I shush and Mayatnik come back.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 27, 2003, 15:19:18


13: Thank you for the tips. I do get where you are coming from and your comments are pretty much spot-on. As regards your future ideas, why not simply open a new thread in an appropriate forum. I'm sure it will be well received.

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: clandestino on June 27, 2003, 15:20:29
wow...what an interesting thread ! All these different beliefs being argued over....

excuse the capital letters here...
 
quote:
ASKING NEGITIVE QEUSTIONS (LIKE REPEATADLY ASKING HER/HIM TO PROVE THEMSELVES, WILL ONLY HALT YOUR LEARNING PROGRESS.



Seeking answers : this is the same kind of guff that religion has told us for years !! Imagine if my maths schoolteacher used that line... ! Seriously, I know that this subject is a different kettle of fish entirely, but I've got to side with Tisha & 13's reasoning.

I am really interested in Mayatnik's posts and will hopefully have time to read them and follow the instructions one day. But, as Frank said :
 
quote:
It seems to me that within the confines of this thread, the "word of a guide" has turned out to be the modern-day phraseology equivalent of, "the word of God".


I am not comfortable with throwing away my logic and reason and blindly believing everything a pendulum reveals to me. If you cannot verify that a pendulum or "alien intelligence" is providing you with correct information, then why should you trust it ??!

Seriously Mayatnik / Seeking Answers, I mean no disrespect to either of you, and I don't intend this post to be read in a hostile tone at all. I would please appreciate an answer to my question written in bold; to set my mind at rest. There are a lot of fantastic (& fantastical) posts in these forums....please keep 'em coming !!!

best wishes,
Mark


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: phi on June 27, 2003, 16:34:28
quote:
Originally posted by 13

Just wanted to give a warm thank you to those who posted recently. I can stop holding my breath now...I was unsure whether I'd offended the entire forum by probing too much and taking the shine off such mystical and 'divine' knowledge... Hearing that there are other students who recognise the value of the objective process is assuring.



Well if you need feedback then I'll say I appreciate your questioning nature. Keep the posts coming. [^]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Noxerus on June 27, 2003, 17:43:36
.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 27, 2003, 20:31:22
I still think a litle test would be fun like I had asked in the beginning if it was possible.  Something like someone on the forum giving a list of stuff that could be in a box and people using the pendulum find out which is actually there.

Im not really using it much though.  I tried it the first time I read the topic and it worked well.. but after I questioned it it stopped working for me.  I think ever since then I hold my fingers too tight.  I lose interest in things fast, but I might try it again.. it would be fun to have more specific and verifiable things to ask it.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on June 27, 2003, 20:47:34
The first slew of questions I asked mine yesterday involved its trustworthyness.  It passed.  And after I questioned it, it continued to give me replies.  I don't remember how I asked or what I even said because I'm like that but I know I asked them.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: greatoutdoors on June 28, 2003, 03:03:09
MAN! So many good thoughts to reply to! 13, I like the idea of a group experiment of some kind and would appreciate the opportunity to take part. I haven't had a chance to try the pendulum yet, but should get to play with it this weekend. It would be fantastic if we could devise some system that gave repeatable, consistent results!

Edi has asked:
1) Who or what are we communicating with when we use the pendulum?
2) Can we be sure of it?
3) How can we be sure of it?


Those are questions I am still trying to answer. I have used Ouija fairly extensively in the past, with some interesting results. They lead me to believe I am "connecting" to something, but hardly a higher being. One example: a friend and I were questioning Ouija while my old and partially deaf dog was sleeping beside us. I asked Ouija if it could prove its reality by waking up the dog. It said "Yes" and proceeded to whirl around the board at a rapid pace. The dog continued to snore. After a few minutes the whirling topped and it spelled out "I can't." It didn't prove the existence or power of Ouija, but it folded us up laughing!

Scientific American and Discover magazines have had interesting articles recently about a field of energy that is everywhere, in everything. That is pretty close to what I believe. Now whether that field is sentient, or contains sentient beings (physical or otherwise) I just don't know. But I believe we are tapping into that energy somehow whenever we are operating beyond the purely physical "here and now". And yes, I know it sounds a bit like Star Wars, but I can brag I had that belief before the Force came to the silver screen.

Lastly, if someone decides to launch another thread, I would appreciate a heads-up from this point -- it's hard to keep up with them all.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 28, 2003, 04:48:34
I just used the Pendulum to find some important documents I have been trying to find for more then a year. They had been misplaced after I moved. I went room to room asking my Pendulum .... " are my documents in this room?" When my pendulum finally said yes. I decided I would take the room apart piece by piece if needed. Sure enough I found what I had been looking for in the bottom of a box in the top of a closet. A place where I had looked before.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 28, 2003, 05:22:31
For those interested in starting experimental work with the pendulum, and any other effective cross-dimensional communication method, I started a thread under General Metaphysics at http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5264. If you'd like to participate, please reply to that thread instead of this one, and once the group is formed we can start serious planning and comparing notes on some good directions. Initially I had quite a few ideas on capabilities to examine, and experiments to try, but once I started probing via pendulum and in trance communication, I found many entities simply weren't very capable, so I feel the experiments may have to be progressive - that is, first establish regular contact, then teach it some basic protocols, then examine it's abilities and mutually exchange information with it on aspects worth exploring, then conduct fully-fledged experiments between participants on many of the aspects we'd like to know about. I am personally interested in future probability reading (akashic records), telepathy from human to entity to another human, entity remote viewing (physical and astral), magical empowerment and the human-familiar relationship, and other assorted stuff. The only other thing worth mentioning to those whose pendulums seem to have quietened down once you became more inquisitive is, mine did the same thing until I relaxed and communicated the fact that I had no expectation of it's abilities, and didn't get upset or anxious one way or another, I only asked that it be honest, really honest. Since that time, it has worked as strong as ever, and it no longer lies - I openly ask it eg, "Do you have the ability to read this card?" and it will say "No" quite quickly. Mind you, it still tested me initially and I had to berate it for lying when ti did, but now it is open and truthful for the most part. This is the point in the relationship where true progress can be made, I feel. For what it's worth, I've found that astral entities don't really view deceit the way we do - it's not a bad trait in them at all, it's like they're just 'imagining' stuff up like they always do. So establishing the human expectation of absolute truth in them is in itself a task.

Noxerus - yes friend, I do study hermetics [:)]. I'm glad to see someone else here knows the name of Franz Bardon, a true Adept of the last century. I practice trance and energetics, and also high magic and earth magick, but focus on the astral effects of magic in trance rather than mere physical rituals. In the vast higher dimensional world we live in, there is so much to learn it staggers the mind.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on June 28, 2003, 09:25:12
It would be very interesting to me how most people would handle a mentor or the traditional (non western) way of learning these things.

Im thinking a mentor wouldnt fly since we all know so much from reading and from being so independent.  Thats one thing I enjoy about the casteneda book I'm reading, the amount of humbleness (if thats a word) among people first learning.  I dont think we in the west could learn the "old way".  I personally wish someone here was a shaman or  a person such as that so they could tell us the difference.  I think a shaman might get chased off these forums for being too set in his ways and getting annoyed with a person's arrogance.  The two shamans I've met in my life were very much like that.  They were older and couldnt stand people who had read so much they questioned them on everything.  Thats just not how it's done among native american people and other cultures.  Maybe thats one reason you dont see a lot of Native shamen online.  mostly western/anglo ones... its a medium better suited for that type of interaction.

If Mirador ever decided to converse with the new agers I think differences in other countries would be interesting to learn.  Unfortunately he seems stuck on sneering.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on June 28, 2003, 12:58:48
I  believe there is confusion here on this thread. I suggest that readers spend some time and carefully read the thread in it's entirety.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 29, 2003, 12:30:45
Here's my update for everyone.

As I had previously posted, my pendulum had told me several different times that it was my higher self. I also had progressed from having to verbally ask questions, to thinking questions and having it respond. This occurred over a few days.

All of our conversations seemed to be prompted/fed by my thoughts and dreams. I also asked several times if it expected me to believe what it was telling me and it repeatedly told me No. It also expected me to question and 'test' it. And when I asked if it was offended by this, the reply was also No.

I had asked it two different days if I would have a lucid dream or astral travel that night. It was wrong both times. It admitted as such. But maintained that I would have a physical sign of what it was telling me by last friday. Now I can somewhat understand not accurately predicting lucid dreams or astral travel. So my mind was still open at this point.

I then tried the card guessing as 13 described. I mimicked the set-up (3 random cards; even/odd guesses). The first set of 3 it guessed 2/3 correctly. The second time it was 1/3. So overall a 50-50 scoring. I commented that that was not very impressive, it agreed. Again, at this point, I could imagine that perhaps this was not necessarily a good test for my higher self. So I still held my decision.

I asked if it still wanted to hold to the physical sign occurring on Friday. It said Yes. When I asked if it could be wrong, it said Yes. When I asked if it thought it would be wrong. It said No. I told it that I wouldn't communicate anymore until after Friday. And then we would see what happened. I asked if it understood my reason. It said Yes.

Friday came and went, and the sign didn't appear. Saturday, I told the pendulum that the sign didn't appear. It said No. I then asked again if it was my higher self. The answer was No. I asked if it was another entity/being. The answer was No. I asked if I knew who it was. It said No. I then told it that I knew what my thoughts are already. And that what I'm looking for is not someone who can read my thoughts, but someone who can help guide me. I thanked it for its time and wished it well, but told it I would not be contacting it anymore. I asked if it understood why. It said Yes.

Now, I have NEVER tried anything like this before. Although I was successfully able to use a divining rod once to find water when I was a kid. That doesn't really count, but that's the only experience I have with this type of stuff. And yes, it was somewhat neat to communicate with something. But I prefer to know what I'm communicating with.

I'm assuming from the posts on this thread, that its possible to contact more than one entity. So I may try again. But I'll be reading and posting both here and on the link that 13 started in General Metaphysics. My first step in proceeding down this path is being able to verify, with some type of consistency/accuracy, what type of being I'm communicating with. Otherwise I have no intention of pursuing the dialogue. That may sound harsh, but that's my approach at this point.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Amber on June 30, 2003, 00:33:43
Mayatnik,
thank you so much for the detailed description of how to use the pendulum, I am enjoying it already. (made mine out of a necklace)

I have a feeling that some of the people on this thread would like to prove it's accuracy, but it might be very difficult to do. First, I see the pendulum like I see my Tarot cards: a tool that helps you tap into the part of you that has access to direct knowledge. Note, I said it is a PART OF YOU that has access to this knowledge. But with ego, daily concerns, emotions and our logical mind in the way...we constantly ignore the part of us that knows things without having to assimilate them through conventional methods ie..books, tv , internet ect...

One person commented that the pendulum was only correct when he already had a good idea what was going to be written on that slip of paper. Of course! Part of you knows the answer and the pendulum is just a distraction to let your logical mind relax enough to accept the answer. So, the question really is whether or not your connection with your own inner seer is open and functioning, not whether your pendulum is plugged in or not...lol

Mayatnik, if this varies from your experience with the pendulum, I didn't mean to offend with my opinion here, I just wanted to express my gratitude for your instruction and give my honest opinion of it's true function.
sincerely,
Amber


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 30, 2003, 04:07:58
AMBER,
Thank you for your appreciation, and relating your experience as you see it regarding the Pendulum.  It in no way offends me, whatever a person’s experience that they relate; it merely saddens me if the person is closed-minded and negative, and I therefore hurt when this is so because of knowing the person could learn so much from being ‘open’ and receptive to all that is new to them rather than taking a ‘testing’ attitude to the Pendulum which is there to teach.  Berating the teacher for the teacher’s perceived ‘inaccuracy’ is to miss the point altogether.  A teacher is not there to give ‘answers’ as such, but to point the way, and so the Pendulum will avoid anything that will give an ‘easy route’.  You, I feel, have a good grasp of this concept, and so I tell you these things for you to further check and question the Pendulum, and this will put you in a good position to be able to assist others who can benefit from your insight – because people will learn by sharing their degree of development in this (not by checking answers to prove the teacher right or wrong – which is an insult in anybody’s terms).  As such I, as a teacher of the Pendulum the method of which use has been given to me by my guide, do not give answers either but merely point the way and encourage, offering advice as appropriate.  It is for the Pendulum user to address their own inner-development directly with the Pendulum itself; each will progress in their own time and way.  All that my guide asks is for users to have respect, be fully open and explore with many questions, since many of those questions will be about the unknown to them and cannot be ‘verified’ by scientific means.  They can, however, be verified by common-sense – because, as the questions proceed (and there should be many, like a conversation with a Wise Friend) pieces of the jig-saw puzzle will fall into place, giving a much better perspective of the overall ‘picture’.  The Pendulum is also (and this is the priority of the guides, above all else) there to assist in inner-development of that particular person.  So, that person will be ‘tested’ – not the other way round!  It has to be understood, that wrong answers WILL appear to be given from time to time, and sometimes frequently (depending on the attitude of the ‘pupil’); this is deliberately to get the person to rethink certain notions and attitudes, not necessarily directly obvious.  If a person remains open and receptive, then the beginning of telepathy will follow, and they may find they’re ‘hearing’ a fuller answer in their heads.  The problem then arising is, will that person dismiss what they ‘hear’ as their imagination or their ‘cognitive’ processes at work.  Again, common-sense should prevail, since the responses that may be heard as one progresses will often not be in agreement with one’s knowledge accrued through books and the like, but will nevertheless make sense in building a larger understanding.  A point is reached, when the person gets a firm ‘foundation’ and then the exploration really begins to take off exponentially, far beyond any scientific methods the world uses to seek new knowledge and explore new frontiers.  So, the Pendulum can be seen as a starting point, and I graduated from that many years ago. In fact, I have not used the Pendulum myself for over 6 years now, since becoming fully telepathic 24/7 and having instant ‘rapport’ with my guide in a ‘conversational mode’ of communication throughout the day, and is in fact the way I read all posts in conjunction with my guide who listens and comments on them.  It is in that way that I am able to teach, because I am not an educated person and all my knowledge that I write here and elsewhere comes directly from my guide, not from myself.  As regards Channeling, it has been suggested that the Pendulum is a channeling device.  It is not.  And it clearly is not, because the ‘answers’ given to a user are for learning purposes only, and it is only after much learning that a person may possibly graduate further, no longer needing the Pendulum, and be given the great responsibility to channel directly from the guides; part of which responsibility is to not give the answers ‘on a plate’, but to assist the development of others.
I do that here, in my capacity as assigned and ‘gifted’ to me.

You are quite right, Amber, in relating the Pendulum to the Tarot for inner-development.  Neither the Tarot nor the Pendulum are tools for giving ‘answers’ to the future.  The Tarot gives a ‘general’ view, and the Pendulum gives a ‘specific’ view to a question.  But, in both cases they are only a ‘snapshot’ at the present time, and how the future will be depends on the person, interaction and Fate in what will be given in experiences and whether this is dealt with or avoided.  The Pendulum can access the Akashic records through the Higher Self or soul (according to how people term it), and it does this through what I have termed the ‘computer’ (which is a way of describing the ‘mechanism’ by which the Collective Consciousness interacts – rather like a Super Galactic Internet-Highway, if you like). And, the guides can ‘tap in’ at any time to ‘monitor’ and even speak through the Pendulum.  That, broadly is the way it is.  But, of course, you should use the Pendulum to ask more about these things, and in that way your knowledge will grow – but will grow only in proportion to your openness and willingness to learn all things new, putting conditioning aside in the process.

So, proceed with confidence Amber – you are doing well!

NOVICE,
What I have written above applies In general obviously, but to take the specifics of your post, particularly regarding the ‘tests’ you have made and also your observations, I shall comment here on those things.

As you say, you have now progressed from putting questions verbally to thinking them instead.  That is good, indicating that an affinity is growing with the Pendulum communication.  If you progress further, to ‘hearing’ answers in your head then you may have to go back temporarily to verbalising (allowing those incoming thoughts to come out through your mouth just as you ‘hear’ them instantly) until you again become more ‘attuned’ to this further development, should you progress to that stage, and that too will pass and become natural to just ‘think the conversation’.  So, all is well at this stage in that, but bear in mind my remarks in previous posts regarding ‘picking up’ audio around you – your mind can transmit not only your ‘thoughts’ but anything that your ears or senses pick up in addition, so focus on the question in hand if that is the objective; the Pendulum will be aware of what’s going on around you, in any case, but will respond to your focus.

The Pendulum will tend to concentrate on what is uppermost in your needs at the time, maybe uppermost in your mind but at any rate not necessariliy uppermost in the questions you are asking.  So answers will reflect this to some extent.  Regarding dreams, we all dream but are not always aware.  A so-called Lucid dream will only be remembered in any case if the guides wish it, since many dreams are actually ‘virtual experiences’ given to us, into the subconscious, while we sleep.  They are presented to ‘test out’ situations as to how we would deal with them (not in actuality but in ‘type’), and for the guides to evaluate progress and sometimes even present new ideas to the world – many great inventions and new thinking have been presented in this way, and Einstein is a great example of this, along with those ‘creative’ people who suddenly got ideas for science-fiction ‘reality’ in such as Startrek, which introduced a new way of thinking to people.
So, when it is time, you will remember any dreams – because you will be ready, having dealt with other aspects, to grapple with new things to move forward.  The fact that dreams will be ‘set’ for you does not mean that you will be getting them that night or the next, since it depends very much on yourself, and also to some extent on your body-state at the time.  So, what may be ‘set’ (and inttended) may well be postponed.  Therefore, the Pendulum is not wrong, it is merely answering your question ‘as is’ at the time.

The card-guessing ‘test’ is not a sensible approach to using the Pendulum – and this is quite apart from the other factors I’ve discussed, which will only lead to confusion at the very least.  If you think about it, by laying down 3 cards you are implying that YOU or any source (such as the Pendulum) already knows what these cards are; in effect, you are stating by that that all you do is preordained, and ‘will be’ and therefore be known.  I type these words, having known what I intend to type.  I could, however, just press the keys at random, and the result would eventually appear on the screen – but it cannot be predicted whether I will type $qw9w\ … a#j’5< (in fact, I’ve just found those random characters very difficult to produce, I am so used to touch typing that my fingers refuse to go onto ‘non-sensible’ keys as my fingers are so clearly ‘attuned’ to what my brain instructs, which proves a point about good intuitive, i.e. non cognitive, ‘linking’).  So, it is what ‘appears’ (is turned over) that is relevant, not the putting down of the cards at ‘random’.

How does this then fit in with Tarot, for example, where the cards are said to appear not at random, but to a pattern that enables the person doing the Tarot Reading to obtain the information?  To answer this, let’s take the simple 3-card spread <past-present-future>.  As you turn over each card, it presents a ‘symbolic’ representation of a state of affairs in general, and the reader then reflects on this; in so doing an ‘insight’ is gained.  The key element here is the word ‘symbol’.  It is not an actuality, such as a card number for instance and the relevance is in the interpretation instead. So, when you ask the Pendulum to predict the ‘card’ that will be turned over, you are in effect asking it to reverse the process, if you see what I mean.  The Tarot cards are not put down at ‘random’, and the guides do indeed know what cards will appear in a Tarot spread, but of what benefit is it to you to know this from another source when the whole object is for you to trun them over and ‘interpret’ from the actual cards in a meaningful way?  It is no benefit to you, and the guides will not play such games – apart from making a ‘random’ guess it would seem.  The guides did not interfere in what cards were put down, since the object was to test them, and nothing can be learned from that.  If anyone thinks that the guides are going to allow a person to claim that the Pendulum is toatally accurate with their ‘tests’ then there is a distinct danger that people will rush off blindly believing that what the Pendulum tells them is the absolute Truth. So, you will only end up going around in circles at best, and continually ‘testing’ the guides is a negative attitude and can draw to the person all manner of what some people call ‘demons’, and that is not good; quite apart from the fact that the Pendulum may cease to work altogether until the person is ready, it is very retrograde to the formation of greater  receptiveness,  so the guides will not encourage this in their ‘answers’  as it will not further development of the person.  Better, they feel, for the person to remain in confusion until they are ready, my guide says.

There is one part of your post that appears ambiguous, so it is unclear regarding the questioning session you report.  It is essential to be precise in questioning since the Pendulum will (until you are experienced) answer what you ask, not necessarily what you mean – since this also is part of the ‘learning process’ the guides are attempting to teach.  Always, it is to get you to think deeper, in order to become ready for an increased level of awareness.  So, I quote here that particular part of your post…..

You say:
<< I told the pendulum that the sign didn't appear. It said No. I then asked again if it was my higher self. The answer was No. I asked if it was another entity/being. The answer was No. I asked if I knew who it was. It said No. I then told it that I knew what my thoughts are already. And that what I'm looking for is not someone who can read my thoughts, but someone who can help guide me >>
As the first sentence reads, it implies that you’re asking was the sign your ‘higher self’ – to which you got the answer ‘NO’.  Now, it is likely that you actually asked, “Are you my ‘higher self’…NO.  Some people get a ‘yes’ to that question – it all depends on their level of conditioning and what they can accept, but in any case the Pendulum works through the Higher Self, and until a bridge has been formed this is, in effect, the case.  In your case it is telling ‘no’, this is not the case for you; this is either to ‘test’ you to see how you will respond to that, or to in fact state the fact as given.  In either case, it is up to you in your perception to evaluate (I had all of this in my initial learning, so I know how they work from my own experience, as well as what I’ve been taught since).  You went on to ask if you knew who it was (“Do I know who you are?” would be a clear question) – and the answer was ‘NO’.  You are not precise here, so it could mean, are you asking “Do I know you, personally, as an entity?”, “Have I encountered you before?”, or just in general.  You could have gone on to ask about where it came from (some questions to find out more about this).  One of the things that appertain here, is that guides respond from a ‘pool’ – in other words, in the early stages it is invariably whichever Being happens to be ‘on-shift’ or on duty at that time to monitor the Pendulum and progressing users.  You can ask the Pendulum about such things, but unless you question as much as you can in a ‘conversational’ way, these things will not come to mind to ask about, since they are ‘popped’ into the mind during the course of the flow as appropriate in that session.  A good flow results in a good increase in knowledge derived from a session.

The Pendulum is not there to read your thoughts – though it does that automatically to understand you better than you know yourself!  The last part of that quote I extracted is very true, however, where you say: what I'm looking for is not someone who can read my thoughts, but someone who can help guide me --- Look at ait this way..... A Wise Friend can help a person, because they look deeper than the surface in what a person is saying or asking – in effect they almost read your mind, and in the case of the Pendulum it DOES read your mind, but responds in a way that will help you in stages to see clearer…..so the guide can, and is willing if you are receptive, to help you in all that is your potential, firstly with inner-development and then according to how you progress; it is an individual thing, not a ‘group’ process.  And never will you simply be handed the answers ‘on a plate’, because you must work towards understanding, after which – like any good and diligent pupil – you will know the answers even without asking.  As a simple analogy, an answer at the back of a higher mathematics textbook will tell you nothing about the process that led to it, and so you need to walk that path.  Good luck, and keep on posting for all to share.

I am happy to respond to all who are following this thread, and who have a positive receptive attitude for personal growth.  This thread is a group activity only insofar as there is sharing of experiences, and they can take many forms, rather than a rigid approach that may be employed elsewhere.  To that end I am interested in seeing input, and will respond if and as appropriate only to give extra help when things are not clear, as instructed by my guide to do.   So, it is up to the individual, to swim freely in these new waters, with the security of the ‘advanced’ method outlined here to aid confidence because it is the method given directly by the guides through myself to pass on, and not some derived ‘learning’ from books, or any notion of myself.  All that I give here has been channeled via Telepathy (and not the Pendulum) to assist in this.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: psaunder on June 30, 2003, 09:12:24
Hi,
I have  had an interesting result with this Pendulum exploration.
Below is a message I posted to the 'General metaphysics' forum - I didn't get much response there, so I've put it below. I would appreciate if anyone would care to post there thoughts on this.

Excuse the extraneous introduction, though I felt it necessary.. :)

My personal gratitude to Mayatnik and others who share there experiences on this forum.

Regards, Patrick.

========== original post =========
I'm not really sure where to start with this, as I can proudly say I have had _my_ first verifiable psychic experience!

I have been visiting these forums, and others for approx 2 years now and have a great deal of appreciation of the knowledge presented here, and am interested in experimenting and learning. The only fly in the ointment is that up until know, I have been relying upon other people's verification - the difference between licking a picture of an icecream vs the real thing IMO.

Well, lucky me, I came across the introduction to the Pendulum by, Mayatnik , in the 'Astral Consiousness' forum, so very excitedly I created my first pendulum out of shoe string and 2cm bolt.

Imagine me sitting there on the first night, saying "Go pendulum!" , "Show me YES, please", "Show me NO, please" , but all to no avail, my pendulum hung like overcooked spaghetti.

Not to be put off, the next day I sat down and talked to (through) my pendulum again, but this time I relaxed & concentrated, and what I observe is that my Pendulum starts swinging, but only when I push it with my mind! The short version of this story is that I can make my Pendulum swing front/back , left/right or even around in circles though to this point, though have not had any responses to questions from it!

So, my dissapointment at not having a responding pendulum is greatly dimminished at my excitement of manipulating using newly found PSI ability. Question is, what steps are suggested to begin receiving communication through my pendulum?
========


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 30, 2003, 12:29:54
Thanks for the response Mayatnik!

I do understand what you are saying regarding telepathy and the pendulum. And I was a bit dissapointed that I had to actually form mental sentences in order for it to respond. I would expect that at some point, it will simply be thought forms/feelings to which I receive responses.

However, during our conversations, there is a constant flow of dialogue. One question leads to another. The pendulum follows my as we proceed (I don't have it stop between questions/answers). The answers are continuous as I think them. I can tell right before it changes directions, and I'll wait for that to occur.

And, as I implied in my last post, I do recognize that the 'tests' I were doing were probably not good representations of my higher self. I fully acknowledge that. However, the 'sign' it mentioned to me was regarding inner development. So my thought was that at least that should have had some sort of validity to it.

My biggest hesitation is the information that its telling me. If it were reasonable, I would be more apt to believe. But the information I'm getting is like something telling me one day that I'm going to become President (of the US) within the next 20 years. Something that, while possible, is extremely improbable. Now this isn't what its telling me, but its a comparable analogy. This is what's forming the basis of my hesitation in continuing to utilize this. I'm not an ego centric individual, and do not have grandiose dreams/aspirations of any kind. So I'm not real sure where to go from here with it. Does that make sense?

Given my analgoy above, what would be your recommendation for trying to determine the validity of what was coming through? As I described in my last post, my conclusion was that this was some other entity trying to 'stroke my ego' with illusions of grandeur. This is why I stopped. I'm not interested in that at all.

Thanks for the advice!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on June 30, 2003, 14:18:48
Hi Patrick,

You need not feel any disappointment, because your Pendulum is indeed responding – and responding well to you!  What you describe in your post shows me that you have distinct psychic ability in the way that you are able to get the Pendulum to move from your mind. It shows that you have already formed a ‘link’ with it.  where your confusion comes is in the way you are looking at this.  You are expecting it to conform and work automatically in the way you presume it should from what you’ve read.  Yet, at the same time, you are getting it to do things simply by ‘willing’ it to move – something that the beginner does not usually think of.  I often say, if I’m looking at a new Pendulum, “Circle please” or “move left to right” etc. and I put it through its paces as it were, to see how it responds, since weight and shape are factors in how a Pendulum will respond.  But, you have gone straight to that way of operation quite naturally, and so proved that it is working fine responding to your mind, rather than needing verbal instructions to it to do so.

So, why is it not responding to questions?  Well, first of all you need to establish with the Pendulum what is ‘yes’ and what is ‘no’ for you, otherwise nothing is valid, for any response would be meaningless.  Two things are important to understand here - and they are fully explained in various posts in this thread, so if you haven’t read all the posts then I would suggest you do so for full details, and extra ‘tips’ are given in stages as the need arises.  But, briefly, the Pendulum responds to questions in the way you would expect a computer to respond; in other words the question or statement must be clear and unambiguous.  I notice from your profile that you are a computer programmer, so you will readily understand this need for preciseness.  You asked the Pendulum (to quote your words), “Show me YES, please” and “Show me NO” please.  The Pendulum can’t do that, because ‘yes’ and ‘no’ response depends on the person, and you haven’t asked it to give a response that is right for you (left-right is YES for some, but not others, and in-out is of course the other response).  So your first question should be phrased, “Give me a YES, please”, and the Pendulum should then decide what is YES for you (depending on your genetic make-up) and respond accordingly.  You should also give the Pendulum a couple of second to ‘settle’ after picking it up, and this is the equivalent of ‘logging on’ to a server; in fact, if you watch closely, you will see the Pendulum do a little kind of ‘twirl’ before settling into a standing position, or into a YES swing (which is normal with many people once the Pendulum is attuned to them).  Once the ‘logging on’ is complete, then it knows all about you, because it has ‘identified’ you in just the same way as your unique password identifies you on the internet.  You are, in every sense, in touch with the Galactic super Highway of communication and Knowledge – and it is through this connection that guides can communicate with you through the Pendulum, or just ‘monitor’ your use of it because their ‘computer’ is capable of answering most questions since it is beyond anything that you can imagine as a programmer.  In my various posts I have referred to ‘default’ mode and ‘advanced’ mode.  This thread is about using the adanced mode, whilst Dowsers (without knowing it) actually use the default which is simply through the ‘computer’ automatically which is programmed to give ‘standard’, but very accurate, results to a Dowser for the type of work that they do.  I shall not describe the ‘default’ or  so-called Dowsing methods here to avoid confusion, except to say that they are very different - one example will suffice… to determine sex with ‘default’ mode it is necessary to have the thread a different length for each sex you wish to test for, and with the ‘advanced’ mode it is merely necessary to ask, “Is this female?”, having observed the other basic advanced rules set out in this thread, although it may be necessary in certain cases to use what is called a ‘scan’ first (I have not yet explained this ‘scan’ process, since members are still on the basics and that will come later).

It will be to your advantage to have read carefully all the way through this thread, because there are many subte points to be absorbed in it, as well as the experiences of members which should give further food for thought as to how you can apply the Pendulum in your own way.

I will outline here a couple of extra methods that I have not given up to now, and you can try these to see how the Pendulum is responding, and they are very useful additional features…..

The first one is to use it as a ‘compass’ pointer.  Ask the Pendulum, “Point North for me, please”.  It should respond by starting to spin.  This is <search> mode, it is looking to find North for you, from your position.  When the spinning (search) stops it should then settle into a swing, like the ‘yes’ or ‘no’ swing, but this time the direction of the swing will be North-South.  The point (pardon the pun) is which end of the swing is North?  Here’s a ‘knack’ you can incorporate, and which will be useful for other things to as you progress:  Flick your eyes in the direction you think may be North, and ask, “Is it that direction?”.  The Pendulum should then respond (assuming it is set up correctly) by changing it’s swing to a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ (left-right or in-out, whichever is the case for you).  If the answer is ‘no’ then obviously South is the direction you indicated with your eyes, and North is the other direction.  Repeat the instruction, “Point North for me, please” if you need to get an exact bearing to head towards – and in this way you should never get lost.  The Pendulum can similarly point in the direction of a specific town from your location using, “Point towards New York, please” or whatever place you wish, and it will <search> and then settle into a compasss-type swing in the appropriate direction.  But, be careful with this one!  Because, there are many towns of the same name, so specify (as you would need to also if using a search engine on the internet) the state or county if there might be ambiguity.

The Pendulum can also find things or people that are lost.  Bad Moon Rising reported recently having found some lost documents by using the Pendulum.  The first thing that might come to mind would be to ask it to point in the direction of the object or person, but there is another method and that is to ask it to guide you to the object or person/animal being sought.  To give an example of this, let’s say that you want to locate your cat.  Now, it may be upstairs sleeping in a cosy corner out of sight, and let us say that you are downstairs in the living room.  Just asking the Pendulum to ‘point’ will give the direction but does not indicate whether it is downstairs, upstairs (since the Pendulum can find the direction no matter what the height), or even in the garden or street. So, it is often best to proceed by asking the Pendulum to guide you to wherever it is.  Say simply, “Guide me to my cat plese” (if you have more than one cat it is sensible to specify its name, unless this is very clearly in your mind).  The Pendulum will then <search> to find the cat, and then settle into the most appropriate direction to head towards it, which will be of course the door out of the room.  Observe the Pendulum as you steadily walk in the direction indicated, and you will notice it turns appropriately as you get to the hall.  Follow the direction indicated.  If the cat is upstairs, then as you reach the stairs it will point in that direction, and so you proceed, following the Pendulum as you would follow a compass needle.  This should then lead you to the cat, or whatever it is that you are seeking if it is nearby.

The Pendulum can also locate from a great distance, using a map in front of you – but that is a technique for another time, after the basics have been assimilated, and as I said before, a thorough reading of the whole thread is essential to a full understanding.

In the meantime, members can try these things out and hopefully  report their findings for all to share.  But don’t forget, that first and foremost the Pendulum is a tool for inner-development and the exploration of all things new to give a higher perspective (and that is the main theme of this thread).  Above all, have respect for it, because it can teach you many things.  Lack of respect, or constant ‘testing’ of its validity will lead to it failing to respond well to you, and may result in it ceasing to respond altogether until that respect and open receptivity returns with a willingness to learn what it is capable of giving you.

Patrick - Hope this helps you, and look forward to hearing further from you with your experiences.

Novice - i've just spotted your post as I came to submit this, so I shall respond to that in another post just as soon as I can.  You will appreciate that, due to my eyesight it takes me some considerable time to actually read a post and respond. But, having briefly glanced at what you've written above, it seems that you are getting well attuned to the Pendulum and it is responding well to you, though not always in the way you expect; I shall deal with those points when I reply, because they're important to address. In the meantime thank you for your open input which is valuable.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: boomyboomy on June 30, 2003, 17:00:13
What I don't get is why some people automatically assume just because the pendulum moves that it is psychic ability, or someone communicating with them.

Surely it is your subconscious communicating. It produces movements in your hand so tiny that your conscious mind can't percieve them without some form of amplification (i.e. a pendulum).

I think this is infinitely more preferable than communicating with some muppet spirit of dubious provenance. If you want to chat to some spirits, get lucid, go OOB. Easy - why bother with a boolean pendulum?

However, if you're sitting in an exam, quickly scan the paper with your eyes and go through the questions with the pendulum and let it guide you to the right questions. Etc.

What I am saying is I think it has far more mundane and practical uses.

Boomy


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on June 30, 2003, 17:26:03
Mayatnik, I'm glad to see you decided to return.

I have been using the pendulum several times daily, for the Experiment thread in General Metaphysics. Something that made me stop and reconsider all my assumptions, was when I held my hand *absolutely* still. Merely resting one's elbow does not ensure your hand is stationery. For people who doubt this, try holding the top of the pendulum thread to your forehead (something that isn't liable to the minor movements of the forearm). Press your hand into your forehead to ensure there is no extraneous movement. Better yet, rest your entire forearm, hand and fingers on the edge of a desk, dangling the pendulum from your (now very) fixed fingers. What do you get? I got nothing, absolutely nothing, and that was after getting 5 inch swings moments before...Makes you wonder what's really at work...if the pendulum really is being moved by something other than me, why does it look, feel and seem in every way to be my own hand doing all the movement, unconscious or otherwise?

Here's something else...close your eyes during a pendulum session. Mine stopped moving straight away, and all I got was the natural movement of a bob on a string. With my eyes closed, no matter what verbal, mental or other pressure I exerted, that pendulum couldn't move. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 (ie, my hands, my eyes) together...I asked it "Are you my subconscious?" and it said "Yes"!! What is one to make of that?...needless to say, it was quite an eye-opener.

You haven't bothered to reply to any of my other questions, but I guess there's a first time for everything... Simply because a question is difficult, it doesn't make it or the questioner 'negative' or 'closed-minded'. I began by taking all your instructions and guidance at face value - the only difference is I tested them, as honestly as one tests one's computer, for faults. Is it right to present some knowledge to an open group, but then dodge any serious concern that is raised? I'm glad to see in your recent posts you are now won on the virtues of 'group effort'. If that's so, I'd appreciate your very experienced answers on the questions above.

As for the theory that any inaccuracy on the part of the pendulum is a 'test' by one's higher self, aliens, etc... this is rather spurious don't you think? You say that the 'pendulum' can access the Akashic records, yet any time a person has so far used the pendulum for precognitive questions, it has never once succeeded, including both mine and Novice's questions. Are these all tests? How long does the higher self, aliens, etc require such testing for? And what is it's purpose - is this really the form that 'guidance' takes? Do you think wrong answers are more likely to guide us, or confuse us?...If only I could go back to my Uni exams and explain to my lecturers that I was simply 'testing' them with my 'guidance'. Your guide says she is an evolved alien being, delivering knowledge of higher dimensional learning via direct telepathy, yet to date she still fails to locate someone astrally and report their initials... Does this sound right to you? I'm writing so bluntly for a reason - your writing is influencing students, and you should be accountable for the accuracy of your statements. I myself teach classes of students in psychic development, and we should both know the responsibilities of a teacher are significant. If people blindly trust this pendulum with matters of consequence, you are partly karmically accountable for the results. I sensed you very briefly saw the possible truth in the objective comments I raised, but the conclusion was simply impossible to accept, and Karek was very quick in giving reassurances within the belief parameters that you are now accustomed to. The belief system you have is very hard to break out of - it is self-validating (ie, no external validation) and you have constant extra-sensory affirmation. Could the possibility of the pendulum being the subconscious explain various people's weird dialogues, the failure at objective testing, the limitation to one's own eyes and hands for it to be effective at all, and the general lack of real intelligence? Could it also explain the uncanny ability to locate missing (forgotten?) items, make intimate personal statements, or invent excellent fiction? Is this remotely possible?

Just some thoughts friend... Although I have chosen to write more harshly than usual, I can tell that you have a good and giving nature, and you are genuine in your desire to spread such valuable knowledge. I only ask that you consider the possibilities. Like I said before, Karek will resist this process, both overtly and covertly (through offering more 'guidance' and 'encouragement' to examine things, but still within your current beliefs). You sound like you're opposed to book-learning of any kind, but you might want to look at Prometheus Rising by R.A.Wilson, a truly mind-expanding practical examination of the nature of thought, both normative and abberative, and it's ability to invent and affirm itself. Check out the reviews on amazon if you don't believe me.

PS: I just noticed boomy's posting on the next page...how synchronous [:)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 30, 2003, 18:02:02


Wow, this thread is starting to get *really* interesting. That's one heck of a post Mr-13, and I too was glad to see Mayatnik return.

As regards your post, I particularly liked, "If only I could go back to my Uni exams and explain to my lecturers that I was simply 'testing' them with my 'guidance'". That was sweet.

Credit to Mayatnik, too (which I realise you recognise). This promises to be one heck of an interesting debate. AstralPulse is just the best, and the quality of the postings here prove it.

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: greatoutdoors on June 30, 2003, 18:52:29
Mayatnik: Welcome back! I know you took some "hits" in logic, but a far exchange of ideas is never a bad thing. The danger lies in refusing to look for the real meaning in what is being said, and in refusing to allow for the possibility that your own horizons an be expanded. And believe me, I have more than a little experience in folks' calling me a dunder-head because of some thought I've thrown out. But it's just a philosophical difference and it can be sorted out.
13: Don't give up so quickly! Sort of on the same line as above, honest inquiry can yield surprising answers. I don't know right now if the pendulum is responding to my mind, or to the energy field I have tapped into, or to something else entirely. I do know that 100% accuracy is not to be sneezed at! (I posted more on this on the general metaphysical thread). You say you expect the pendulum to move entirely by itself -- maybe, maybe not. From my perspective, I am willing to accept that I am causing the movement, though I try to keep it minimal. When I ask a question, I try to stay "in tune" with the Chi (for lack of a better word). And as Mayatnik says, I try and keep my questions very clear and concise. What I want to know first is whether their is actually a connection to anything. If my answer to the "What" is yes, then I'll start working on the "How" and "Why".


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on June 30, 2003, 19:30:15
13-
Interesting comment. I also was concerned that my fingers were moving the pendulum. But, from previous posts on this thread, it was suggested, if I understood correctly, that the higher self was influencing the sub-conscious to move the pendulum with some kind of very subtle energy being transferred to do so. Although I could be wrong in my understanding.

Not to throw a wrench in your post. However, I also just attempted what you described. And this time my results are different from yours. I held the pendulum string to my forehead (over the 3rd eye) with my finger. I then asked it a question mentally and it responded with a noticable swing. Not as strong as with my fingers, but definately movement. Then I asked a question to get a negative to response. And the bob swung back/front only for No (which is consistent with my NO using two fingers).

I also tried asking questions with eyes closed and the pendulum in this position and that worked too. The only difference is that the movements were no longer the 2-3 inch swings, but smaller 1/2 inch swings. However, they were still discernable and consistent with the responses I've had using 2 fingers. Although I had begun using the pendulum with my eyes closed and holding the string between my thumb and finger. That would produce the larger swing answer.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on June 30, 2003, 19:41:35


Well, it was Mayatnik who proclaimed himself, in capitals, from the start... that the "truth" shall be known.

Go for it, old chap.

If there truly are aliens visiting this planet on a regular basis whom you are in touch with, then by all means send them to me. I don't mind. I'd love a quick trip to Alpha-Centuri and back.

I'm being totally serious.

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Euphoric Sunrise on July 01, 2003, 00:32:37
I realise this is over 11 pages long, but i just wanted to report my findings.
I grabbed the first thing i could find to use as a pendulum last night (it's around 11:30 am next day now). It was a set of ear-phones you use for a discman or the like [:D]. I picked it up, held it all in a bundle in my right hand, and let one of the ear pieces dangle. I asked it to give me 'yes' and it gave me a definite across-the-body motion. 'No' was the opposite. I tested it on further questions and i was happy with the results.
I've just now written out the numbers 1-0 (1 2 3... 9 0) on a piece of paper, and tried to find out what year galileo galilei was born and what year he died (something i couldn't for the life of me remember).
In the end i got 1567-1643. The real dates are 1564-1642. I don't think that's half bad for my first attempt at finding out something i didn't know. I believe i would have got the correct results had i double checked all the letters and not been so careless.

I'm pleasantly surprised at the success of an ear piece in guiding me to a near-correct answer! At the moment i am of the idea that it works by channeling into my sub-concious mind, or the universe (when i read that poem out i thought of the universe as God) and gets me the answers from there.

Thanks for the help MAYATNIK!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Links Shadow on July 01, 2003, 01:40:00
Ah finally I have some solid swinging going.  Today after asking questions for about 20 minutes the swings started becoming more pronounced about an inch past vertical to both sides.  Although I have yet to find a question that requires "searching", I really want to see what the circular motion looks like.  Does anyone have any ideas of what questions I could ask that might require searching?

Thanks,
Links Shadow


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Euphoric Sunrise on July 01, 2003, 01:53:16
Links Shadow, i simply say "show me a searching motion, please." and it cirlces (anti-clockwise by default, although it does circle clock-wise if i tell it to).
Sorry if this has been covered already, but i also found out it can swing diagonally, in both positions (outward-inward left-right, and outward-inward right-left. outward being away from my body, inward being towards my body). I'm not sure what these directions could be used for ('maybe'? [:P]) but they are certainly there.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 01, 2003, 02:42:51
An inch past VERTICAL?  As in vertical being 90 degrees either direction past the bottom point?  :O  Mine goes about an inch either way.  But 90+ degrees seems like whoa.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on July 01, 2003, 03:58:09
13, I agree with a lot of what you said in that last post.  I too thought it was my fingers moving the bob and I was given the answer earlier on this forum 1st or 2nd page its supposed to be your fingers that move it.  It influences your subconscious, and causes it to move.

I personally have to agree its better to learn the truth and the truth usually comes about by being open to all possibilities and ruling out many of them.
Even though I want to believe this is a pure and reliable thing its probably better to see all sides.

I got a few contradictory answers when I asked the bob the same questions in different environments.  For example, at work compared to home.  AFter giving it some thought I saw a lot of truth and the probability we are chanelling things other than just our higherselves or guides.  In fact why wouldnt we be?  The Ouija board is looked down on because it lets in any entity, but didnt we just take for granted the only thing that would come through here would have our best interest at heart.

I wonder what robert bruce thinks about this.  I think this would be a good thread for him to give his opinion.  I personally want to know all theories before chanelling IF that is what this is.  Ive never been interested in chanelling anything because I dont feel prepared.  
Im not saying there's anything wrong with it but that isnt something Im interested in doing right now.

Its just reading the initial arguments I believed (maybe blindly) the only things coming through would be spirit guides etc.  Any thoughts on this (I haven't read this whole thread since its long so sorry if its already been answered)


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on July 01, 2003, 04:00:08
Novice and GreatOutdoors, thanks for the update on the pendulum work you've done. Frank, thanks for the compliment [:)]. I'm glad in a way to see the results are different from my own, strange as that may sound. I guess the first thing would be to confirm what results people get with a strict "firm hand" method - could you ask a series of questions normally, and then ask them again with your entire forearm and hand resting on the edge of a desk *and* with your eyes closed? I literally have only my fingertips hanging over the edge. Novice, you're right in that the "firm hand" test in itself doesn't preclude communication from something external, only that it seems dubious given the mind's own ability to generate pendulum swings. Also, the mind has many generally untapped abilities - guessing the number of paper clips in a hand is very easy for the subconscious...I've met people in the flesh that trained in subliminal dynamics (www.subdyn.com) who can access the intelligence of their subconscious and tap vast, "Rain Man"-like, abilities.

To be honest, I've no firm assumption one way or another, be it subconscious, astral or guide theory. Perhaps a single explanation is not possible, nor reasonable. To use an analogy, I can pick up the phone and talk to either my mother, a criminal, or the Prime Minister with equal possibility (even if not equal probability). The phone mechanism remains the same, but I'd be mistaken in thinking I was always talking to my mother when I spoke to a criminal (although perhaps not so mistaken when thinking I was talking to a criminal when talking to the PM [:)]) The question is, is this a bona fide analogue phone connected to the outside world, or am I talking into a little plastic Fisher-Price plaything connected only to my head?

Mayatnik, I realise that the recent flurry of excited debate can seem frustrating, perhaps even pointless. In my consulting work, I know that the *best* ideas are subject to the *most* scrutiny and excitement from people, simply because they are so good. You have every right to be proud of the knowledge you initiated, it has given many people their best experience of the non-physical. But the way forward, like all science worthy of the name, is to allow a group of peers to discuss, experiment and critique. This is all that's happening. I for one am not interested in artificial disputes or ego battles - only at making a best guess at the truth of spiritual topics.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: clandestino on July 01, 2003, 07:03:26
Hi 13, good point. the most radical ideas are always subjected to plenty of scrutiny.

I don't think we are debating that the hand is moving the pendulum. This movement is facilitated by a combination of concious / subconcious action.

Perhaps we should be debating the merit of the pendulum, instead of blindly accepting Mayatnik's expertise.

Whilst I recognise that Mayatnik is free to "teach" astral pulse members the techniques of "divination", I feel its very important that people here realise the reality of this thread.

This quote is taken from Mayatnik's first post:

 
quote:
over the centuries to locate water, oil, buried artifacts at archaeological digs, and even missing people – to name but a few of the many uses that Dowsers have turned into an accurate science. A science is not by definition ‘spiritual’; it deals only with that which can be tested and accurately repeated


And this one from the most recent post.

 
quote:
I therefore hurt when this is so because of knowing the person could learn so much from being ‘open’ and receptive to all that is new to them rather than taking a ‘testing’ attitude to the Pendulum which is there to teach. Berating the teacher for the teacher’s perceived ‘inaccuracy’ is to miss the point altogether.


Again, this post is not meant to offend . I just want to be rational !!
Mark


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 01, 2003, 07:39:51
13 -
I’m sorry I’ve not been able to get round to replying to you sooner, but this has been mainly to do with the large amount of time it physcially takes me to respond to any post.  Because of me only being able to see at a distance of 2 inches away it is not only in the time it takes (several hours to read and respond to an average post) but mainly because your posts have had so many questions of me in them that I could not deal with that amount of detailed editing (cut/paste) that would be required to address all your points adequately.  I am my own worst enemy – always have been, so a lesson to be learned there for me – in trying too hard.  I have actually spent hours composing posts to you, but because of your aggressive manner (and my inherent gentless of approach) I didn’t submit them.  It wasn’t because I didn’t have the answers for you or that the questions were difficult to answer, for they weren’t.   It was because I couldn’t put it in the way I wanted to, as I found my answers were matching your questions in tone – and that is not me.  We must all be the way we are, until such time as we may change.  So, this post reflects how I am, in myself, and you must take me as you find me.

I respect the way you are because you are very sincere and conscientious, and even though we differ in our viewpoint I think you are a dynamic asset to the thread, in your own way.  And I thank you for all that you are trying to do, in your contributions, and hard work, here.  You know the old saying, water will find its own level.  Well, that’s the way I look at this thread I started.  It has never been my intention to domineer or impose on the Free Will of participating members; that is never the  way forward.  The instructions given by my guide were to enable an initial stability for progress.  Some of the instructions, it will be noticed, were strict in where the Pendulum should be placed, and as some members have now found out there is often considerable latitude in the positioning of the Pendulum – and it is good to see members proceeding with confidence in that respect. The guides, however, felt that by giving exact positioning it would ensure the maximum number would achieve confidence because of optimum conditions initially, and that was the purpose.

Our initial disagreement, 13, was over the <search> mode, as it was important to have that function for later more advanced work that I have not explained yet, these being only the basics I presented (until my most recent post where I added <compass> and <guided-direction> modes, to assist members in gaining a greater ‘rapport’ with their Pendulum, as well as being positive ways of obtaining verifiable results.  It is important to see that the Pendulum can give very accurate answers, all the more so because at times it will be observed to seemingly give incorrect answers, even patently so on some occasions.  When such answer occur, this is the Pendulum’s way of teaching – because that is its main function for the beginner, as he/she invariably finds out very soon, though they may not recognise it as teaching.  I would ask members, since it does occur not infrequently, to consider this point, rather than assuming that the Pendulum is wrong or even lying.  This is not a ‘theory’, but is the way my guide explained it to me, after much experience at figuring out in my early training what exactly was happening.  I realised it was testing me in different ways,  but as a result of maintaining a positive and patient attitude I learned much for my inner-development.  When, now, on occasions I use the Pendulum it gives me no incorrect answers since it is a tool for my work when required rather than a ‘learning’ tool.  When it seemed obvious that the answer was not right, then I would respond respectfully with such as “I feel that is the wrong answer – do you agree with that assessment?” and it may respond with ‘yes’.  I would then ask it, “Are you just trying to make sure I’m awake?” and – with an obvious sesne of humour – it would often reply with a large ‘cheerful’ swing of ‘YES’, but at other times when I got the ‘No’ response I would follow this up with a question like, “Am I thinking about this in the wrong way?” and very often it would reply ‘YES’ or ‘yes’ – depending on the degree; and, of course, that would lead to further questioning as I tried to fathom out just what it was trying to teach me there.  When I did get to the point of finding out, by continual respectful questioning, the lesson was well learned, and worth the effort.  And, I soon learned the art of lateral and oblique questioning, increasing my skills in addition.  So, I can say from my own experience that the Pendululum never failed me, eve when it gave me what seemed at the time to be wrong answers, because I benefitted enormously as a result of a steadfast positive approach and willingness to learn.

Where we differ the greatest, 13, is in what you and I consider to be  the ‘source’.  Members too differ among themselves, and this is understandable.  My answer to that would be that, in time, the Pendulum will teach the diligent user this anyway, provided that they have respect at all times for the Pendulum.  If this is practiced there is less negativity (such as denial, or berating) and negativity always repels positive entities, whatever class one may ascribe to them, so is unproductive and can often lead to the Pendulum ceasing to function well for the user.  Another point that arises from this, is where one user reports it is their ‘Higher Self’ it is working through whilst another says it is a Being.  There is nothing, in the early stages,  to say that one person is ‘in touch’ or communicating with a higher Source than another except by the Universal Law of ‘Like attracts Like’.  So, the more positive and respectful the approach then a like source will be attracted.  What will be discovered, my guide tells me, will be according to the level of the individual and their needs at that time.

Therefore, while this thread is a ‘group activity’ in one sense by our interaction, it is support of the individual and sharing by the individual that will show the greatest overall progress.  This is a Free Will world, and all is allowed and should be encouraged in each individual, rather than looking for ‘group consensus’, because each person will learn from the Pendulum in their own way.

These things I say from my guide, because unlike you, 13, I do not have any ‘education’ and never had the opportunity, due to me being Registered Blind and circumstances concerning that, to study.  So, without my guide I would not be here now able to write this and other information (in such as Frank’s <QUESTION FOR MAYATNIK>) and that is why I know my ‘source’, and have dedicated my life to helping others for the last 8 years since my wife’s death and an incredible  shared OBE, the like of which I have never heard described by anyone else.

Earlier in this post, I said I was my own worst enemy for thrying too hard – my guide has told me this time and time again, but that  stubborn old Mayatnik has always fought it.  Now I’ve finally seen sense.  Friends have told me that being online for 48 to 60 hours at a time is stupid, no matter how good my motives may seem in wanting to respond to everyone.  Old Mayatnik has to own up, and say I’ll respond when I can but please forgive me if I’m slow at replying, and I may not reply to all, but but it’s not to avoid.  And I’ll be around, watching whenever I can.  Thank you, 13, for pointing out to me that I hadn’t replied.  You taught me something – to just be the me I was meant to be.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on July 01, 2003, 08:19:13


Mark: I'm glad you made that point. I was thinking along the same lines because the two statements look to be saying the opposite. Plus, there was the other point about guessing cards. I hesitate to ask because Mayatnik has indicated such questions are upsetting: but what's the difference between guessing cards or guessing water?

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on July 01, 2003, 11:54:05
Thanks Mayatnik, I appreciate your reply and the gracious manner in giving it. I'm sorry to hear about your sight impairment and the effort required to read and respond. I'm disappointed that you might have found my tone abrasive - I've never tried to be, and in fact spend quite some time toning down each response before I post [:)].

We do have different, and perhaps irreconcilable, methods. I understand the points you make above, and your general message. To me, without solid insight (examination, reason and objectivity), one can interpret the pendulum as any number of things. I don't mean to imply that rationality is cold, since I know that genuine messages of higher beings can often be cryptic and confusing (to human logic). The problem lies in many inconsistencies - the pendulum saying one thing then being proved incorrect, time after time, or simply not demonstrating what would be minimally expected of higher intelligence. For example, I could fictionalise that the pendulum is actually my alter ego (let's call him 14 [:)]) in a parallel universe communicating with me. I could fictionalise that when I hold the pendulum it is in fact me that swings while the pendulum stays still, and that it is simply a device to measure how much the universe is swinging at any one time. Without objectivity, a belief system is a 'fiction'. With total objectivity, a belief system is truly a 'best guess', something I prize in my metaphysical pursuits. When I say "objective", I mean "does not contravene direct evidence or logic", not necessarily "physically verifiable", since many aspects of the spiritual cannot be tested physically at this time.

I wish you the best [:)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lasher on July 01, 2003, 12:26:36
quote:
Originally posted by 13
 I could fictionalise that when I hold the pendulum it is in fact me that swings while the pendulum stays still, and that it is simply a device to measure how much the universe is swinging at any one time.



13,

Have you ever read Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco?
If not, then you should check it out.  Your above quote reminded me of this great novel.  I've posted a review below.

Lasher



From Publishers Weekly
If a copy (often unread) of The Name of the Rose on the coffee table was a badge of intellectual superiority in 1983, Eco's second novel--also an intellectual blockbuster--should prove more accessible. This complex psychological thriller chronicles the development of a literary joke that plunges its perpetrators into deadly peril. The narrator, Casaubon, an expert on the medieval Knights Templars, and two editors working in a branch of a vanity press publishing house in Milan, are told about a purported coded message revealing a secret plan set in motion by the Knights Templars centuries ago when the society was forced underground. As a lark, the three decide to invent a history of the occult tying a variety of phenomena to the mysterious machinations of the Order. Feeding their inspirations into a computer, they become obsessed with their story, dreaming up links between the Templars and just about every occult manifestation throughout history, and predicting that culmination of the Templars' scheme to take over the world is close at hand. The plan becomes real to them--and eventually to the mysterious They, who want the information the trio has "discovered." Dense, packed with meaning, often startlingly provocative, the novel is a mixture of metaphysical meditation, detective story, computer handbook, introduction to physics and philosophy, historical survey, mathematical puzzle, compendium of religious and cultural mythology, guide to the Torah (Hebrew, rather than Latin contributes to the puzzle here, but is restricted mainly to chapter headings), reference manual to the occult, the hermetic mysteries, the Rosicrucians, the Jesuits, the Freemasons-- ad infinitum . The narrative eventually becomes heavy with the accumulated weight of data and supposition, and overwrought with implication, and its climax may leave readers underwhelmed. Until that point, however, this is an intriguing cerebral exercise in which Eco slyly suggests that intellectual arrogance can come to no good end.
Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc.




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Amber on July 03, 2003, 04:22:09
Great books, still wading through Name of the Rose. I amy just give up and watch the movie...lol

Mayatnik,
I wanted to thank you again for the invaluable tool. I used it the other day to locate my keys, get relationship advice and figure out whether or not to drop a class...it's really come in handy. Although I thought it was completely off when it told me my keys were in the living room, but I later realized it had actually been pointing towards the cupboard in the hall where I found them! lol






Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on July 03, 2003, 14:57:32
Hi Lasher - I haven't read any of Eco's books actually. I generally prefer non-fiction but I saw the reviews for Name of the Rose and Focault's Pendulum and I am tempted to being Name of the Rose [:)]. I enjoy a good story, and the several fiction pieces in my library are all similar recommendations by friends, for good intelligent novels.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on July 04, 2003, 00:51:34
I would just like to respond to 13's concern (about moving the pendulum) by repeating a point I made earlier in this thread.
IMO the fingers certainly ARE responsible for moving the pendulum, I was never under the impression they were not. But that doesnt mean it doesnt work as described. My view of the pendulum is that it equates to any other divination/oracular tool (like ouija), that is it provides a link to the subconcious. Now, sometimes this will be the only benefit, I use tarot as a tool to start talking to my subconcious. However, sometimes intelligences outside of the subconcious can use your subconcious/unconcious as a bridge to try to get something over to you.

So what am I saying? Well, do your fingers move the pendulum? Of course they do. Your subconcious sends signals to your brain which sends them to the fingers. This way if you keep your mind as clear as possible your subconcious has a means of communication with the awake mind.

Equally a guide or other being may use the opportunity to send signals to your subconcious which then also get transmitted (via finger movement to the pendulum. It is the skill of knowing which is which that is the important factor.

So 13, in my view of how the pendulum works, it is very important to allow the fingers to be able to move the pendulum at a subconcious level, otherwise it will not work. I am not suprised that you have zero results by dangling it from your head or whatever. I was actually suprised when I realised that some people thought it *was* some kind of mystery force moving the pendulum!
However, once it is established that the pendulum can be used for subconcious communication then its function  as a tool for receiving communications from *outside sources* should also be considered.

Regards,
Douglas




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: 13 on July 04, 2003, 21:41:22
Gandalf - thanks, I realised the same thing a little shortly after I posted that. The thread was simply too long for me to bother reading every prior page in detail, otherwise I would have noticed it much earlier. I really don't see much use for the pendulum in my daily practice at all now - as a subconscious communication tool, I have deep trance which is like talking/seeing/being in your subconscious. In terms of receiving messages from one's higher self, I use other oracles combined with energy sensing - eg, when my higher self wants to give me a message, I ask it to flash energy through a particular hand when I pass it over a given rune or tarot that is the answer to a concern of mine, and complex messages can be given in this way with multiple runes/tarots. I have tested this form of divination with many many rational tests - it has never failed at the card-guessing or other similar tests - which is why I felt that at least one of my pendulum sessions I did communicate with my HGA, because afterwards I validated this in an oracle session. I don't make it a habit to seek answers from my higher self - life and its lessons sometimes need puzzling over, and much pain, to be learnt. But just this past week I had good reason to contact him again, and it worked as ever - startling, confronting and a clearly higher message that made everything right again.

My best wishes [:)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Celeste on July 05, 2003, 22:46:11
Hello MAYATNIK
 
  Sorry I'm about to get controversial. You sound like you are well intentioned but I need comment even though it will go against the current here. Maybe just for some balance. [:D]  
quote:
My guide later explained to me it was that way in ancient times also, for those who learned the CORRECT use of the Pendulum – and my guide, Karek (who incidentally incarnated on this earth in ancient times as both Inanna of the Sumerians and the Godess Isis of the Egyptians) had taught me that correct use


 Your guide claims it was/is the Goddess ISIS?

  I make it a policy not to trust any 'guide' that says it was a "god/dess' or anyone famous for that matter(!)  Pt 2 of my policy states not to trust a guide that tells me that "I" am special or chosen in any way or that the information is special.[;)]
 Hey, but that's just my policy...
 
   
quote:
First though, let’s dispel one misconception that may exist in the minds of some readers; the Pendulum is NOT in any way whatsoever like the Ouija board,


   In fact, the Pendulum can be used in EXACTLY the same way as the Ouija board.   If a person is using it to 'communicate' with spirits/guides then it is being used "Mediumisticly" same deal as the ouja board.  I think it pays to recommend discernment in all things Spiritual. But, hey...that's just me.
   As well  this little 'Kantra'--I'm not sure how fool-proof it is.

celeste


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Mirador on July 05, 2003, 23:27:36
I love you Celeste!  'that's just me' is pretty clever. You will never fall pray easily. Also, rest assured that it's productive to get controversial, plus it's positive to believe we are well intentioned. And most important of all, your wise statement to the effect that first and foremost we have to 'keep our balance'.

Great going!

Mirador


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 06, 2003, 04:17:36
Hello Celeste -

Sorry I'm about to get controversial.
Don’t apologise, you obviously intend it.  But why do you feel you are controversial, I wonder?
You sound like you are well intentioned but I need comment even though it will go against the current here.
You think that comment is not allowed?  There are many contributors to this thread, and each has their own viewpoint – and, in fact, that is the purpose of this thread….. to explore and question – by means of the Pendulum, yes, but also to share viewpoints regarding it….. as you must have seen if you’ve read all through this thread.
It is a Free Will world, and if you feel that you are ‘controversial’ then that’s fine.
Maybe just for some balance.
Too much overall agreement? You are then maybe playing the ‘Devil’s Advocate’?  If so, good thinking.  Thank you for your input.

So, you say…..
quote:
Your guide claims it was/is the Goddess ISIS?

I make it a policy not to trust any 'guide' that says it was a "god/dess' or anyone famous for that matter.


I agree entirely with your point there in general.  I say in general because when you look at the large number of so-called Clairvoyants that are so called ‘Inernationally Acclaimed’ and very often with large Internation Bank Accounts (more real than so-called) there are a considerable number that lay claim to having Godesses or Famous People who once lived, as their guide.  And it does not apply only to that ilk alone – much play is made by some people who report stories of their ‘Past Lives’ as Famous Personages also.  Let’s face it – by whatever name you wish to call it the end product is Marketing.  Whether a person may deny this, and protest that they are utterly genuine, the ‘product’ rings the cash registers very loudly, because some people are still guilible.  You, I take it, are not.  And I would say that none of the contributors to this thread are either, from what I’ve seen in these posts.  In fact, it would be an insult to intelligence to suggest that, given the material that I have presented here.

I do not do this, nor indeed any activity in my life, for money.  I have dedicated my life entirely to this and often work between 48 and 60 hours online in a ‘day’ (due to my extremely poor eyesight) between necessary periods of sleep, either posting here or counselling online – I receive no remuneration whatsoever, and the happiness in my soul from helping people is something that money cannot buy.  My life is simple.  I just receive a small pension for being Registered Blind, and because I am sat at home I can devote my life easily to this ‘job’.  So, I don’t need to wave any prestigious Guide-title as my ‘source’ since I am not marketing anything.  Nor do I have any ego-agenda to become famous; I could easily have my work published and give lectures as a channeler, or have my own website.  But my guide has asked me to come here and tell members at the Astral Pulse about the Pendulum, in the way it was once used and has now been revealed to me to pass on.  I was not even permitted by my guide to pass this method on to the public domain for 8 years.  I would ask, “When can I tell people?”  And my guide would say, “When it is time”.  And when I told in the post the name with which my guide had once incarnated it was, and I used the word incidentally, in contrext to what I was referring to... namely those times.

For a long time I didn’t even know the name of my guide.  It took 2 years before I was told my guide was a ‘she’, and a further 2 years went by after that before  she revealed her name, Karek (which, she said means ‘Bright Star’).  It was about 3 years after I came to know my guide as Karek (her real name) that we were talking telepathically (which we do for hours and hours, a constant joy to me because she is a wonderful teacher and ‘personality’ with a good sense of humour  too) and during the course of our conversation about the Sumerians and Egypt in general she happened to mention that she had incarnated as Inanna and later was known as the Godess Isis – and she told me some private details about Osiris.  The ‘myths’ are not what people think they are, but that is not for me to tell and a person can use the Pendulum to find out more about such things…..even to check if what is written is true – and that applies to what I write also.  Of course it depends on whether a person is using the Pendulum properly or not, and the whole purpose of this thread is to enable a person to Divine Truths correctly (but more on that later).
quote:

Pt 2 of my policy states not to trust a guide that tells me that "I" am special or chosen in any way or that the information is special
Hey, but that's just my policy

I have never said that I am special, nor even implied it.  I am simply giving the information that I am asked by my guide to give.

Chosen?  I did not ask to be a channeler.  I did not ask to be given this gift of telepathy.  I did not ask to be here to explain what ‘chosen’ means.  I was simply chosen by my guide to do this, so that is what I do.  Perhaps you mean it as in “The chosen One?” – as somebody ‘special’?.  People often put ‘colouration’ onto a certain word and transmute it in a kind of verbal alchemy, according to how they view it - rather than seeing it in its full overall context.  I write a whole essay for a post to explain carefully, with humility, what my purpose is here.  But, if a single word fills the page in a person’s perception and conditioning, then by effectively ‘blocking out’ they may well not see those other words and miss the point.

You go on to say:
quote:
In fact, the Pendulum can be used in EXACTLY the same way as the Ouija board. If a person is using it to 'communicate' with spirits/guides then it is being used "Mediumisticly" same deal as the ouja board. I think it pays to recommend discernment in all things Spiritual. But, hey...that's just me.

I explained carefully at the start of this thread about the ouija board, for the benefit of those who weren’t aware that ‘communication’ by that means can be extremely dangerous.  I won’t repeat the details here, since the reader can refer to the full explanation.  Suffice it to say, that negativity is attracted to an ouija board, and can even leave its imprint on those people engaged in such activity, leading to depression and worse, and often affecting the surroundings also.   Invariably, my guide tells me, ‘lower entities’, and those of a negative disposition as well as elementals are attracted to the ouija board and can in no way be relied upon to give answers that will assist inner-development or be of any real worth spiritually.  I note from elsewhere on the forum that you have a manifest and keen interest in Psychic Defence.  I, personally, do not use any psychic defences nor do I need them.  The key is in being POSITIVE, calm and Fearless.  Love and Compassion are the opposite of Fear.  The Universal Law is that ‘Like attracts Like’ – and Fear is negative, while Love is the most Postive emotion that can be sent out, attracting Loving Beings of Light.

You say:
quote:
As well this little 'Kantra'--I'm not sure how fool-proof it is.

If you use a ouija board then you don’t use such a Kantra, and you seem to imply that the use of a ouija board is at least akin to use of the Pendulum, so I fail to see your point here since you would seem not to be concerned regarding the ouija board without a Kantra yet wonder about the ‘effectiveness’ of this Kantra with the Pendulum (presumably as a ‘protection’) so there is fear implied in your statement, and fear is negative and will attract negativity to you – thus creating a vicious circle leading you to seek more Psychic Defence ad infinitum.  Maybe you see this Kantra as being a form of Pyschic Defence – but it isn’t; it is simply an affirmation and dedication.  Also, it was given to me by telepathy from my guide, and is written in no book on Earth, which should say something to you.

Finally, you conclude:
quote:
Hey, but that's just my policy

I don’t have a ‘policy’.  I just receive the message and pass it on – just ‘as it is’.  The rest is up to the reader.   It’s a Free Will World.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Celeste on July 06, 2003, 14:05:12
Thanks for the nice words Mirador!!  

Hello Mayatnik
 
  Now see, you are taking my comments personally---that was not what was intended. I'm sorry if you were offended.  

   I'm not referring to corruption on the human side. I would definitely not not believe "a spirit" that says it was a 'god/or goddess' in a past life.  But like I said, that's just me.... It is not meant as a  challenge of your personal integrity.  Spiritual "guidance" that I trust does not come with impressive names, labels or personalities. It is neutral.

   If the pendulum is being used in a mediumistic type way it is susceptible to the same problems as the Ouja board. The board is just a piece of cardboard--it is simply how it is being used that attracts tricksters & causes problems.

 
quote:
If you use a ouija board then you don’t use such a Kantra, and you seem to imply that the use of a ouija board is at least akin to use of the Pendulum, so I fail to see your point here since you would seem not to be concerned regarding the ouija board without a Kantra yet wonder about the ‘effectiveness’ of this Kantra with the Pendulum (presumably as a ‘protection’) so there is fear implied in your statement, and fear is negative and will attract negativity to you – thus creating a vicious circle leading you to seek more Psychic Defence ad infinitum. Maybe you see this Kantra as being a form of Pyschic Defence – but it isn’t; it is simply an affirmation and dedication. Also, it was given to me by telepathy from my guide, and is written in no book on Earth, which should say something to you.
Huh?

  I will put in this post from Robert Bruce because I think it carries wisdom in it.

 
quote:
G'day Forum Folks!

Just thought I'd drop in and throw a few pennies for thought...

I have had this debate with many people, and it is circular. I am still waiting for anyone to present solid evidence based on experience and not belief and wishful thinking.

First, I would like to preface this post by suggesting that all who take offense to these PPSD related pages, and who accuse others of wallowing in darkness, catching fleas from dogs, and of creating evil beings because they dare to consider and discuss such matters, to avoid this section of the forums. These pages are for discussion of PPSD related matters, including evil spirits and etc. They are also a place where people troubled by Negative spirit type problems can find help and advice. Open debate on these matters is always welcome, or course, but please ease up on the heresy charges and finger pointing, just because the subject matter herein does not fit in with personal beliefs on how the spiritual universe works.

 If one follows the newage love and light approach too far, by refusing to acknowledge Negative entities and their activities, because you are afraid of creating and or attracting same into your life, you end up like a spiritual ostrich with its head firmly in the sand. This is both illogical and dogmatic, where open and progressive thought is required. In time, if enough people followed the love and light approach to the exclusion of hard life experience and other viewpoints, all knowledge of the forces of darkness and their Neg minions would disappear, as would the few methods we have of avoiding and or defending against same. But this would not stop the spread of darkness. Nothing is ever learned about a subject if it is ignored and avoided.

Should we have the bible and other holy texts and spiritual books revised to remove all mention of hell and demons and darkness? Do you really think this would remove all evil spiritual beings from involvement with human life? We know so little about these things, and even less about what can be done to help those afflicted with dark spiritual problems. And our knowlege on these matters will not increase by avoiding the subject or burying it under an unworkable paradigm. Sure, love and light do play a big part in spiritual existence, but this is not the be all and end all of everything.

This relates to the saying ' that the greatest thing the devil ever did was to convince humankind that he did not exist'. Denying the existence of darkness simply gives it the freedom to do whatever it likes, and removes all hindrance to the spread of darkness.

It might seem like one could remove all evil spirits from this world, if one followed the love and light paradigm closely, and by ridding the world of everything that reminds us of evil, or that teaches us about same, so no one could ever think about it. But have you considered what this would do to the world if this paradigm were faulty? Note that I strongly believe this to be a faulty and unrealistic paradigm. Out of sight and out of mind does not necessarily make something disappear. This just makes it easier to live with something one finds difficult to accept.

The belief that all Negative entities and evil spirits are insubstantial thought forms, created by some people having bad thoughts and unspiritual lives, is a totally unworkable paradigm. However, this neatly fits in with the love and light paradigm, and seems to have been invented to cover up serious flaws in same. This is because the evidence of the existence and activities of Negative spirit entities cannot be denied without generous doses of wishful thinking and irrational denial.

As to the 'getting fleas by sleeping with dogs' thing, well, this is partly true. Sure, if you associate with bad company you are more at risk of attracting Negative attention. But what about the numerous cases where people come under Neg attack for no discernable reason. They just happen. Sure, you can say that all these are caused by 'other people's beliefs' creating and feeding Negs, but this theory does not hold water in the real world. We need practical solutions, not high-minded spiritual theories best suited to the heavens and other exalted states of being.

It is very clear to me that Negative spirit beings are heavily involved in the karmic equation, with the application of same. These beings are drawn to inflict negative karma on humans (suffering), just as all of humanity is involved in the application of karma to all other individuals. If this is correct, then it would be impossible to remove Negative entities through high-minded wishful thinking. This would also be contrary to the laws of applied karma, and contrary to the purpose behind physical incarnation. As I said in PPSD, if God wanted us to live lives of spiritual purity and security, He would not have put us down here in the physical universe in the first place. Did God make a mistake? He would, instead, have put is in some lovely heavenly place where everyone is loving and nothing could ever hurt us. But the fact is that He chose to put us here in the dimension of hard life experience, Negs and all. There must be a good reason for this.

I think it is much more realistic to work with what we have down here, rather than to rely on wishful thinking to fix everything about life that we don't like or can't accept.

Please keep in mind that I did not write PPSD just becaue I thought it would be a neat book to write, or because I dabbled and experimented with dark forces. The content of PPSD evolved during a lifetime of ceaseless spiritual attack, that began when I was about 3 or 4 years old. I am not the only one who has lived such a life. Read the books by Whitley Streiber, eg, 'Transformation' and 'Communion', where he speaks of similar things, albeit from a different perspective. But it is very clear to me that Whitley and I are talking about exactly the same thing. What he calls 'visitors', I call 'Negs'. They are one and the same. I would also like to point out that most of the great saints in history also lived lives of strong spiritual attack. This even includes the dear departed 'Mother Teresa', who struggled against darkness all her life, and underwent a number of church exorcisms.

 Any person who makes a strong spiritual statement with their life (or has potential to do same) will immediately attract the forces of darkness in some way or other. This will often happen many years before such a life statement is even conceived, often in early childhood. The reasons for this are two fold: one can be likened to how positive and negative attract, how natural enemies (or predator and prey) gravitate towards each other. The other reason is that to succeed in making significant spiritual progress, resistence is necessary. Neg forces provide the necessary resistence that allows a person to go beyond their normal mortal limits, to reach new heights of spiritual awareness and accomplishment, eg, spiritual evolution.


If my past were changed, so that all dark spiritual attacks were removed, I would not be the same person I am today. I would certainly not have written any significant books or even be writing this post today. The difficulties and torment involved with my life, including dark spiritual attacks, have not only driven me in a particular direction, but have driven me to learn, to adapt, to grow stronger and wiser, and to overcome same."

Take care, Robert.

   
 celeste  



she who marches to a different drum  [;)]


 


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 06, 2003, 21:48:12
Hi Celeste,

Just my 2 cents but the way I read it there was no personal offense taken by MAYATNIK to your comments. That is as I see it. You obviously disagree.


With regard to the pendulum. I am glad to see active arguements against what has been said to be the correct use of the pendulum. Personall viewpoint aside, objectivity and nondiscriminatory debate can only be healthy.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I have used the pendulum in the past. I have tentatively began to use it again following the poating of this thread. The results so far have been interesting but nothing I wish to share at present. In the future I may post my progress, once I feel comfortable doing so. I feel it is only fair given the amount of effort put forth by a man who is registered blind (and is indeed almost constantly online), to give us the information as he understands it.

Take care,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on July 07, 2003, 08:29:54

quote:
I was actually suprised when I realised that some people thought it *was* some kind of mystery force moving the pendulum!
However, once it is established that the pendulum can be used for subconcious communication then its function as a tool for receiving communications from *outside sources* should also be considered.

Regards,
Douglas



Douglas: Okay, call me thick but I too thought it was come kind of radiation that came from the chest area (Chakra?) that caused the pendulum to move. I got this idea from Mayatnik's first post, thus:

>>>>The Pendulum should be held for accuracy in use, in front of the body with the ‘bob’ about 6 inches directly in front of the breastbone for the beginner especially to ensure the strongest ‘signal’ to activate it and start it moving in the appropriate direction.>>>

Up until now, when trying to get my pendulum to work, I have been especially careful to make sure my hand and fingers are as still as I can make them so as not to (as I was seeing it) interfere with the "signal" driving the pendulum. Which, as I say, I thought was some kind of radiation.

It would appear that the "signal" driving the pendulum is not radiated from the body but is transmitted through the nervous system and activates various muscles as per normal. Only the difference is, it is more of a subconscious activation as opposed to a deliberate one... am I right?

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Gandalf on July 07, 2003, 11:16:51
It would appear that the "signal" driving the pendulum is not radiated from the body but is transmitted through the nervous system and activates various muscles as per normal. Only the difference is, it is more of a subconscious activation as opposed to a deliberate one... am I right?
Yours,
Frank
--------------------------------------------------------------

Frank, I think that this is certainly how the pendulum works. In my own experiments I was able to willfully move the pendulum in any direction I wanted, I then realised that I would have to try to keep my conscious mind blank, this way the subconscious could be allowed to flow as it were, sending signals to the brain which cause minute movements in the fingers.
To me it just makes a lot more sense than etheric energy influencing movement, There doesnt seem to be anything for the etheric energy to do!

Also, if you just try a little experiment and pinch your thumb and forefinger together and concentrate on the pressure. You fill feel all these minute movement sensations, it doesnt take much to influence the swing of a pendulum.
While many sceptics involvement would probably end here, this is where I differ as I don't see how finger movement detracts from the usefulness of the pendulum, anything which can bypass the awake mind and allow the subconscious to manifest is very useful, as the biggest stumbling block to all things astral/spiritual seems to be the conscious mind!

Regards,
Douglas





Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 07, 2003, 11:27:40
CELESTE –
quote:
Now see, you are taking my comments personally---that was not what was intended. I'm sorry if you were offended

That is your perception.  And in that you could not be more worng.   When I respond to input addressed to me personally I normally will preface my post with that individual’s name for reference – but, my words in reply are for the benefit of all readers.  Even when I am replying to a specific problem/experience etc.  I bear in mind that each member is coming from their own particular direction, along with their own habituation and conditioning (which all carry, as human beings) and are in process of shedding for a lighter load as they progress along the way.

There are many forums here on the Astral Pulse, each with it’s own very good purpose – to increase spiritual enlightenment.  Why else should they be here?  And why is a person is drawn to a particular forum at any one time – often that person does not consciously know why they stumbled across a particular forum, nor indeed what they are looking for very often initially.  But all are guided, unseen, in this way.  So it is, that we interact, as members enter debate on issues they are suddenly confronted with as they come across a thread.  So it is with you, Celeste.

You still don’t seem to have got what I was explaining in my previous post, because you reiterate the very same things and in that way there is no movement forward.  It is not about agreeing, it is rather about positive addressing of issues.  What I was explaining was not about guides but about how people ‘colour’ their perceptions,  and how understanding is further clouded for others by misuse by some people of ‘facts’ for their own ends.  That situation is very real and tangible – not some astral ‘presence’, but what certain people take on.  Face it, whatever any astral being may say it is up to the person how they take it… because it may very well be an ‘ego test’ for them, and so many succumb to this, as I pointed out.  My mention of a particular incarnation of my guide was purely incidental and had no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the thread nor indeed of anything said in it.  Neither my guide nor I  have any need to use any ‘title’ from mythology to pursuade people of anything.  Had that been the case, then it would have been prominent from the start, as it always is in the case of those who make extravagent ‘spiels’ for the purpose of ego-enhancement, pushing a point or – most often – to ring the cash register.  Yet you do not even acknowledge this in your reply, which would have been a positive interaction by you because the existence of that situation in life is widespread and only serves to distort perception and restrict growth by those who are thus beguiled.  All those facts, and any others can – not incidentally but definitely – be verified by users of the Pendulum who have a positive and enquiring attitude.

My object in starting this thread was to present the ‘basics’ and for members to grow as they encounter from their own experiences with the Pendulum, and to discuss those things freely regarding that.  If you wish to participate, then you will have experiences to share with others.  If you are speaking from a ‘ouija board’ perspective then it is clearly a different experience (whatever that may be).  To take a ‘stance’ from a different perspective on another ‘activity’ is akin to glowering over the garden (or in this case, forum) wall and commenting on their garden with regard to yours.  By definition, a stance is an obstruction in the doorway of learning, and I would say to you – as also to all others – Come in, and look around… but be positive in your questioning, not negative.  There is much to see here and absorb for ongoing thought in this thread.  It is members’ contributions that make this thread, and I am merely presenting guidelines for safe exploration.  Two things are paramount in this – (1) that contributing members should have read carefully ALL the material here presented.  I realise that the thread is long, and a summary is in process of being written by myself on the ‘basics’, and which will take into account points raised by members.  (2) This thread is only in its first ‘stage’, and members’ positive input as they participate and experience will carry it forward – so I have presented here only that which is necessary for this particular stage, and members themselves will progress to the next stage…..each in their own time and at their own pace, sharing along the way if and as they feel an inner prompting so to do.  As this happens I shall expand further with explanations and guidance given.

Because I do not mention Psychic Defence in this thread does not mean I don’t know about it.  On the contrary, I am fully aware of the issues that Robert Bruce and others raise for awareness and to help people who have problems in that area.  I have the greatest respect, and indeed applaud all that Robert Bruce is doing, but I would suggest that you don’t know him for he is far more than he presents, and if you had walked his difficult path then you would know the more that he is.  And you certainly don’t know me, even if you were to read and carefully think about all that I have written up to this moment here.

I have not mentioned my knowledge in other spheres, since I wish the focus to be on Positve Progress in applying the Pendulum - but I will now point out here that I have successfully dealt with many situations to do with ‘entities’ and other things that arise due to people having a lack of true knowledge in such as magick for instance.  And, in my role as a Therapist and Counsellor I have where necessary undertaken House Cleansing and also such as the removal of spells from talismans and the like.  I have also been called out late at night by church ministers even, to perform exorcisms.  I do not participate in those forums on the Astral Pulse that are dealing, each in their own way, with those topics, nor in any other topics of which I have experience.  My purpose here at the Astral Pulse is to present and deal with ongoing experiences concerning the Pendulum – and I wish to keep it at that.  As I said earlier, each forum has its purpose and exists to help members who feel drawn to each topic.

You have quoted from another source in your reply above – but I wonder how much you understand of what you’ve quoted there.  As Robert Bruce so rightly puts it (to quote from your quote):
Robert Bruce states clearly:
quote:
Open debate on these matters is always welcome, or course, but please ease up on the heresy charges and finger pointing, just because the subject matter herein does not fit in with personal beliefs on how the spiritual universe works.
Quite right, Robert!  Now think about those Wise Words when considering the writings of anyone else.  The keynote is respect at all times for what has been built, at whatever level of perception.  Whether it is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ is in the perception of the reader as they progress - and perception changes as it will with growth.  Full participation is fundamental and essential to grow and ongoing positive experience is the teacher of the inner-self, whether it is in interaction with other people or non-human.  One thing is certain – that negative interaction will bar the way forward, as well as presenting obstacles that can confuse and slow the progress of others who may read any negative input thus causing a need to go over ground that has been previously laid.  So, Robert Bruce is quite right – because he seeks to move members forward and avoid any disruptive and therefore unproductive ad-hoc input from those who are not participating.  So, I say again to you – You are welcome to participate, but this is an a Ouija thread.  I am sure that members would welcome any expertise or even experiences you might wish to share; but, a thread of your own would be the best place for an alternative ‘method’.  That you state it is the same indicates clearly that you have not studied the subject of Divination fully, however – and that quite apart from your need to apply Psuchic Defence particularly because of dangers in areas of such experimentation that methods like Ouija lay one open to.  I have to again here caution any members who use ouija board ‘methods’ about the very real dangers inherent in such practices, and they are well advised to keep away from such or to learn about Psychic Defence.  This Pendulum method does not need Psychic Defence (in fact it is counter productive, as there is inherent safety in using it, and negative attitudes will only serve to make the Pendulum malfunction and even stop working altoghether as it has its own ‘safety cutout’). Divination Dowsers, over the centuries, have never found any need to use Psychic Defence in its use, nor has it ever when properly used been the cause of any Psychic Attack.  Whilst this ‘advanced’ method I present here is not the same (not as ‘basic’) as the Traditional Dowsing Technique, it should be noted that the ‘source’ of Divination (what makes the Pendulum actually work) is the same, and over those many centuries has been found to be trustable even when many Dowsers have not known exactly what that source is.  The Ouija board, on the other hand, has brought people to my door who have suffered greatly as a result of its use, and I have had to remove negative entities that have become attached to not only them but their house causing severe dpression and even irrational behaviour affecting others along with manifestations and/or persistant negative influences.  If this pertained to the Pendulum I would indeed incorporate such defensive methods as were needed.  But they are NOT neede here, nor will any negative influences in a person’s life affect the Pendulum, although some (like yourself) may indeed be prone to negativity and perceived attack in other spheres of life, and those people should continue to employ Psychic Defence to those other things as and where they feel appropriate.  Those who have not encountered a need for Psychic Defence do not need to pursue it.

Since you bring the subject up, with reference to Robert Bruce, let me make it quite clear here….. that negativity is a necessary part of life to encounter.  It is in encountering resistance that we are ever impelled forward.  Lack of resistance means stasis, and in that condition the Universe would grind to a halt.  Push creates counter-push in all living things (in fact, in all of creation).  But this does not mean that counter-push has to be aggressive, in fact aggression only serves to increase the opposite push, and is akin to the notion that some have of ‘imposing peace’.  If anyone finds themselves dealing with ‘lower entities’ then the approach of a good parent to a child is worth bearing in mind – Respect teaches respect at all times, so do not use force for it will only result in opposing force.  Order in the Universe is created out of chaos, and deep rational thinking directs the irrational onto a path of positive and therefore productive creativity.

The words of Robert Bruce, from which you quoted, puts it into context admirably here:
quote:
if God wanted us to live lives of spiritual purity and security, He would not have put us down here in the physical universe in the first place. Did God make a mistake? He would, instead, have put is in some lovely heavenly place where everyone is loving and nothing could ever hurt us. But the fact is that He chose to put us here in the dimension of hard life experience, Negs and all. There must be a good reason for this.

Neg forces provide the necessary resistence that allows a person to go beyond their normal mortal limits, to reach new heights of spiritual awareness and accomplishment, eg, spiritual evolution.

Prime Creator (as the Pleiadians term the God of all perceived ‘Gods’) is the Source Of All.  So, Prime Creator made all – and that includes whatever resistance that is encountered.  That applies to ALL realms of creation, each playing their part.  ‘Negs’ come from Prime Creator therefore, in his Infinite Wisdom for us to learn.  ‘Out there’ are infinitely vast reaches of exploration far far beyond Man’s ability to comprehend, but we are promted to ever seek forward – not too ‘bar the door’ with inappropriately huge defences, for that only increases Fear of the Unknown in our minds.  Consider where you live….. do you need defences against what is happening in your neighbourhood?  In some places there is great danger, and in others much less so.  For some, even, there is virtually no danger at all.  But that does not mean that there is no ‘resistance’ factor in our lives, because we are constantly being presented with resistance to our inner growth, and it is there in the ‘scenario’ of our life experiences to aid us in reaching ever onward and upward.  We have the choice to ignore, skate round, things.  But they will be re-presented at another time, for us to confront without fear… to deal with issues in life’s lessons.   Again, alluded to in the words of Robert Bruce…..:
quote:
I think it is much more realistic to work with what we have down here, rather than to rely on wishful thinking to fix everything about life that we don't like or can't accept.
Very true!  Positive action will achieve, though it may be through personal pain or having to come to terms with things that were once thought ‘absolute’ and therefore a seeming comfort.  This is exactly where the Pendulum comes in, because it is a learning tool first and foremost for inner-development.  Though it gives answers, and these answers will be found to be more and more ‘accurate’ as the person progresses in their inner-development, there is no ‘answer on a plate’ and the answers are only part of a much greater whole which must be worked through as perspective increases and habituation and conditioning drop away like scales from our eyes.

Robert Bruce makes this further highly significant point:
quote:
Any person who makes a strong spiritual statement with their life (or has potential to do same) will immediately attract the forces of darkness in some way or other
This is something for readers to ponder deeply upon.  Because in that quote lies the meaning of what life is all about.  Throughout History, those who have stood up and proclaimed their Truth have been attacked, vilified and even put to death.  And yet Man has still not learned the lesson.  Religion has taught people to “pray for Salvation to end this ‘strife’ of the ‘mortal coil’” – therefore Religion teaches avoidance and puts the onus on others, usually a ‘Saviour’ to come and tidy-up the playroom of Man’s kindergarten.  It is time to grow up now, and realise that those who stand up and proclaim the Message they have been given to teach will always be vilified and obstructed from doing this by a cloak of confusion that forces of ‘darkness’ would throw over that Light.  Darkness’ means simply ‘ignorance’ in whatever form it may take, and however ‘well intentioned’ a person may feel in their conditioned reflex to maintain the status quo when something appears to challenge their ‘comfort zone’ of perception which may be avoiding further enLIGHTenment.  There are always higher and higher perceptions to be reached, and an open and receptive mind is the means by which that ladder will be climbed.  Nothing is the way it seems from the ground, or even higher…..so we must ever seek with unblinkered vision to see more than the closed confines of habituation.  And, until respect for all that is new is reached there will always be those who will attack.

I have been attacked many times (by both Black Magick and Voodoo 'illwishers' as well as both physically and mentally), and been vilified to try to ruin my life and discredit me so that none would believe a word I said.  In fact, I have had assassination attempts on my life, having been shot 5 times – on two of which occasions I have been very close to death.  Such has been the ‘resistance’ to my revealing of Truth, and the uncovering of what certain ‘organizations’ behind the governments seek to subvert in our society.  My dear wife died at the hands of such people, to try to shut me up.  They will not succeed.  As I have said before elsewhere, “If they should kill me, then I will open every file from the other side”.  The attempts have stopped several years ago now, beause they know I mean exactly what I say.

To quote Robert Bruce’s words of Wisdom for the final time here:
quote:
If my past were changed, so that all dark spiritual attacks were removed, I would not be the same person I am today. I would certainly not have written any significant books or even be writing this post today. The difficulties and torment involved with my life, including dark spiritual attacks, have not only driven me in a particular direction, but have driven me to learn, to adapt, to grow stronger and wiser, and to overcome same.
My sentiments exactly!  From my earliest childhood I was given suffering in the form of abusive ‘parents’ and who kept me imprisoned, not allowed to go out and play with other children and beaten if I spoke even.  I never knew my natural parents, who are Russian, and was brought up by an old couple who should never have had children.  Apart from being virtually blind I was, later in life crippled on 2 crutches for 20 years as a result of my hip being smashed… plus knowing things claivoyantly about what really goes on behind the closed doors of those that are the true power behind governments, and which led to incredible suffering as I was forced by circumstances to engage with those ‘dark forces’…. finally the death of my wife, my “little lifetime-pal”.  That is when I decided to dedicate my life and existence here on this Earth to what I now have done for the last 8 years – to Channel the Pleiadian Beings of Light who ‘gifted’ me with abilities to do this job….. and I shall continue in that for what there is yet to do as long as there is life in my body and beyond.

Therefore, I thank God for all the suffering He has blesed me with for my inner-growth and I am truly grateful for all that I have been given to experience and deal with, for those things have made me the person I am today.

To sum up – It should be noticed, that I have answered your post in a positive, embracing manner…to add constructively to what I have said before, and to add further to the excellent words of Robert Bruce – rather than adopting some defensive, negative and potentially destructive comment which would at the least confuse those who may have suddenly come across this thread without reading the preceding posts carefully and thoughtfully to get a better overview of what it is all about.

So, Celeste, it is with love that I say these things to you, and for all members to ponder on my words and those of Robert Bruce here because much lies behind them – and for you to always be positive, because that is the way forward, no matter what you may encounter.  Even more than that, respect all in the Universe – for everything has a place and a purpose..... whether it be the topics here on Astral Pulse, the wider world or even realms beyond our perception... all is there that we may learn from and grow.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on July 07, 2003, 12:43:10
Well, first off, Celeste, I would have to agree with Parmenion and Mayatnik. I didn't perceive any negativity in his response to you at all. Although you may have been expecting that type of response. Not sure. I do have to agree with you on your points however. I also distrust anyone/thing that tells me either they are famous or special/chosen or that I was famous or am special/chosen for something.

Mayatnik-
I guess that's my dilemma with the pendulum. A lot of what it says feels intuitively right. But then other things it says feels extremely far-fetched and unbelievable. What do you recommend when determining what to believe as truth and what to believe as a test? It has given me incorrect responses in the past and when I ask, it will tell me it was testing me. That's fine. But I've been doing this for two weeks, and every few days, I'll ask it some questions regarding the 'improbable' stuff it told me in the beginning, but it always gives me the same answers. It has yet to say that those responses are 'tests'. I still don't believe the answers its given me though.

I've even gone as far as to ask "could these answers be a test"; response YES. "would you tell me if they were"; response NO. "Should I continue to try to verify what you are telling me"; response YES. The problem is I really don't have a cut and dry method for determining if what its telling me is true or not. I would very much welcome any recommendations/guidance you may have in this matter. And it could be that the only way to verify is to keep asking and waiting.

Frank-
I'll join the 'thick' league with you. From Mayatnik's initial description of the pendulum I too thought it was affected by not only the heart center, but also the 3rd eye. Since the length of the string he described, at least for my body type, would line the end point at my 3rd eye, with the bob level with my heart chakra. ANd the 3rd eye is associated with psychic powers and what is termed the Christ Consciousness and the heart center is to be the seat of unconditional love; once an individual is functioning through purity in line with divine will. (Caveat - these are my associations to those chakras and could deviate from other's perceptions of them.)

What I have noticed though, is strong energy movement. I hold the pendulum between my thumb and forefinger. And when I'm using it, I can distinctly feel tingling and energy movement in those two fingers, right where I'm holding on to the string. Unlike Gandalf, I don't hold it tightly though. In fact, I hold it very loosely. But I have very strong energy surges/movement during the time I'm using the pendulum. So I know that its not energy radiating from the two main chakras directly, rather energy being sent to my fingers to move the pendulum.

Do others feel this type of sensation? And if its the sub-conscious, should I be feeling energy? I thought it would be simply minute muscle movements.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 07, 2003, 13:53:35
FRANK and GANDALF -

Good to see your enquiring minds comparing notes in your posts  there.  I am sure that you both – and any other members of a scientific or investigative nature – will be interested in examining the ‘modulations’ put out by various bodies, be they animal or human, when I write further on this in my proposed Summary.  In it I shall be explaining some Traditional Dowsing Techniques that are designed to examine ‘radiations’ emanating from not only ‘living’ (and that includes plant life) but inanimate objects, all of which have an electromagnetic ‘signature’.  Only that which is living gives out a ‘dynamic’ and modulating energy, and such as rocks have a ‘static’ signature.  Of interest also, should be the fact that certain stones – such as those at Stonehenge and similar ancient sites have a specific radiation ‘pattern’ unique to themselves, and with additional ‘information’ in their electromagnetic vibration that ‘points’ in a particular direction, and that being towards another stone; thus a ring of powerful electromagnetic energy is concentrated at these ‘Sacred Sites’.  It has been found, also, that such sites have a ‘finger’ of energy emanation that points over a wide distance to another site, and so on.  In addition to this, the energy detected in ‘ley lines’ has a connectivity to these sites.  All this, of course, is detected with great and consistent accuracy by using certain weel-defined tried and tested Dowsing Techniques by those who have carefully researched the findings of others and extended the knowledge thus gained by discovering new facets over time.  By special Dowsing Techniques using the Pendulum, it is possible to ascertain, for example, not only the strength of energy radiations, but also their height, and a feature called their ‘banding’ which is proportional to the height of a stone, plus being able to quantify the other features I have briefly described.

Another thing that will be of interest to the serious investigator with a scientific-bent is the fact that stone that has been ‘worked on’ by such as stonemasons in ancient times has an ‘imprint’ of the person who hammered that stone into its shape.  The sex of the person who hammered the stone can be verified - and even the time period when it was done to very close limits, due to this ‘imprint’.  This has been verified many times, and also independent testing by expert Dowsers who have hammered stones at different times and then got other Dowsers to ‘inspect’ those stones to reveal the sex of whichever Dowser had done the hammering and also when.  It has been found that a single sharp blow on a small stone is sufficient to leave this ‘imprint’.

Yet another use of the Pendulum by Dowsing Archaeologists (you would have to be an archaeologist to have access to such artifacts) is in the examining of skulls.  From such Pendulum ‘examination’ it has been proved to be able to quickly ascertain the sex of the person or animal, their age until death, and a very accurate indication of the time period in which the once inhabitant of that skull actually lived.

To clarify the point you both refer to, regarding ‘radiaton’ and what I said in my first post (and a couple of others)…….
 
My aim in those posts was to give very simple instructions that would work with the vast majority, if not all, of members when they first tried the Pendulum.   I knew, and it was desirable, that members experiment for themselves – but they would have a ‘reference point’ to return to should results not be consistent.  As some have already noticed, it is not necessary, when one is ‘attuned’ to the Pendulum, to keep it rigidly in one position and there is some degree of latitude (within a few inches) where good results can be obtained.

So, it will be realised, that my reference to the breastbone (or the ‘heart chakra’ position) was only a guideline.  Furthermore, it is not the chakra nor any radiation as such that causes the movement.  However, the chakras (particularly the heart chakra) are involved indirectly.  I spoke earlier in this post about ‘dynamic’ energy – and this is in fact a two-way flow of energy.  Everything, from plants upwards both receives and gives out electromagnetic ‘signals’, and in this way the electromagnetic field of the body ‘modulates’.  The Pendulum operates as you both have ascertained (and as I have said is the case) by minute movements of the hand, subconsciously transmitting impulses originating in the subconscious and being transferred through nerves into the hand, creating the ever so tiny muscle movements that ‘transduce’ into the physical world in a way that we can observe.

Where the chakras come in, is as receptors – the interface from the non-physical – for the subconscious level of awareness to these signals.  In that respect, the ‘healthiness’ of the chakras does affect how well the Pendulum moves; the more ‘open’ they are in general the better the reception – but also, how we perceive answers is governed in a subtle way by the ‘balance’ of those chakras too).

Our knowledge of radio transmission, and even microwave modulated emission would lead a person to thinking along the lines of signals being ‘beamed’ towards us, or at least being radiated from a source.  However, this is not the case.  We are dealing here with interdimensional concepts beyond our technology to comprehend.  There is, no matter what the spatiality no falling-off of receptivity regardless of ‘distance’.  In fact, the energy is not carried in that way, and furthemore ‘travels’ at greater than then speed of light.  In terms of interdimensionality, the ‘source’ can be anywhere, and distance is irrelevant in the brain’s ability to receive via the subconscious which resides in the body’s confines but is not of the body.

Just some more food for thought, and I look forward to your further ‘explorations’.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Frank on July 07, 2003, 15:30:08


Thank-you Douglas and Mayatnik for your responses. I think I'm slowly beginning to get my head around this pendulum business. Problem is, as I've said a number of times before, it always seems to take me ages to get my head around any kind of non-physical stuff.

Yours,
Frank



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 07, 2003, 20:04:45
Novice –

You ask me:
quote:
What do you recommend when determining what to believe as truth and what to believe as a test?

Firstly, I’d like to say – because this really helps me see what is happening in Pendulum sessions - I find the way you structured your post was very clear in its explanations of what you were able to do with the Pendulum, even your thoughts regarding what you don’t understand are very helpful….. because results to whatever degree can then be examined by others and compared with what they are experiencing.

It is going to be different for each person, and is therefore all the more important to share thoughts and findings wherever possible.  Since the primary aim of the Pendulum is initially to focus on the person’s inner-development this also means that the person may not wish to make public the exact line of questioning, as it often tends to feel highly personal or, due to the answers they receive, stretches their mind beyond a point they are willing at the moment to step across out of conditioning and perhaps even fear of going ‘over the top’ in being seen to follow a line of questioning.

When I was learning the Pendulum I went through many experiences in my questioning sessions…..so, I know exactly what members can expect, and why it is that way.   I have some suggestions that will help in this, but first I’d like to draw members attention to the excellent, balanced and postive questioning line you are using when uncertain, that you explain in your post…. so, worth repeating here for others to employ in situations as needed.
(I quote from you here in blue)

"could these answers be a test"… response YES.
"would you tell me if they were"; response NO.
"Should I continue to try to verify what you are telling me" …YES.


The user, in this inner-development stage, is meant to ‘play out’ each questioning line and see where it leads by continuing to ask positve questions. The answers may indeed be true (even if they appear to be far-fetched) and no indication will be given as to whether it is a test or not.  You can indeed, as the Pendulum says, “continue to verify” what it’s telling you; that is your Free Will right to do so if you wish – but it is not always likely to be productive, depending on what the answer is and whether it is even possible to verify it.  the whole point of inner-development is that a person’s perception of what is true is relative to their perspective – and the very nature of ‘development’ means that perception will alter. What the Pendulum is therefore teaching is how to examine those areas within in a fresh light, and you will do this by asking as many questions as possible.  The old Native American Indian saying that you can’t know a person unless you have walked in their shoes for a full month is a very profound statement.  If you think about it, by casting off the shoes of habituation and ‘playing out’ the ideas that start to flow as those answers come and which prompt further questions you are getting into your inner-self, starting to walk in new shoes.  So, you will find that this takes on a kind of 'role-playing’ as you go along with the answers instead of discarding them.  Essentially, just go with the flow.  I know, because I’ve been there in that learning situation.  Even if you suspect it is a ‘test’ then still go along with it, to see what will unfold – and, as I keep saying, you will find questions just ‘pop’ into your head.    The Pendulum is far more than a ‘yes’ / ‘no’ device, and when those answers indicate something that is incredible (non-credible to you) then don’t dismiss those answers but explore them as an intrepid traveller on what may seem a Madrigal Mystery Tour but has a purpose because what you are being told may be a Truth that you at present do not see in its correct perspective because of the ‘colouration’ that the world has put onto what it calls ‘status’ in society (the imposed need to conform to an ‘image’ of you, whether it be beggar or king, or any shade of societal expectation for that matter).  

Even ‘words’ have become distorted into connotations imposed on the mind, and in today’s society do not mean what they say but rather what ‘image’ they evoke as a result of conditioning.  The recent misperception in this thread of the word ‘chosen’ is a prime example.  When I use the word chosen to describe that I have been asked to impart Pendulum knowledge here it means just that, and not any self-agrandisement by using that word.  I could have said I was ‘selected’, or even asked (although that does not imply that I accepted, so is incomplete).  I certainly did not ask for this job.  I was chsoen/selected and given it.  Yes, I had the Free Will to refuse it.  And my initial reaction, and for a time remained, “Why me?  I can’t do that, I’m not capable”.  But I was told by my guide that there were two good resons why I had been ‘chosen’ for this job.
(1) “We know better than you – and we know you will be able to do it”, I was told.
(2) “There are two things you need to learn for your inner-development.  And doing this channeling will create the situation to  teach you what you need to come to terms with”.  Still very uncertain that I would be good enough, and other factors, I agreed to do it if my guide felt it was for the best.

You see, I know I have two things in my inner-development that have needed to be worked on, and I’m still working on them even now.  I have always been my own worst enemy in trying too hard, and I was told I had to learn to have some leisure.  I’m afraid I’ve not done very well at that, although I’ve cut down ever so slightly the amount of time I spend online.  I still want to answer everybody, and my guide still reminds me “When are you going to have some leisure and do some of your guitar and accordion playing?”..... “Soon” I tell her, “When I’ve finished this batch of posts”.  But then another batch comes in.  So far, I’ve spent 17  hours today writing this latest batch of posts.  I just love my work so much, but I have to learn to spend time creating music from my soul again.  The other thing I know I have to learn is to not want to ‘hide behind a pillar’ as I put it.  I much prefer others to take centre-stage while I work in the background – but this job does not allow me to do that, and I realise my guide was very crafty in choosing me to do it.  So it is, that I have to respond, having started all this off at my guide’s requret, and take all the brick-bats as well with no pillar to hide behind. “Chosen”?  Yes, with a purpose in mind by my guide to aid my inner-development, and I have no feeling of ‘status’ that I attach to it, because left to my own way I’d much rather run away and hide. These guides sure know what they’re doing, believe me!

You say:
The problem is I really don't have a cut and dry method for determining if what it’s telling me is true or not.
Well, as you’ve found out now… there’s no way that the Pendulum is going to give you ‘answers on a plate’ every time, and certainly the guides’ priority is for your inner-development in the early stages at least.  You will find that for certain things you can accept the answers – in such cases as asking it something that ‘rings true’.  Other times you just have to keep on asking further questions and as you progress you will find that more and more you are developing an ‘intuitive feel’ in how to proceed with your questioning line.  You are, in that way, building a foundation, higher and higher at each stage that feels ‘firm’ and which you can then use as a background in other sessions or the next line of questioning.  I found that the quickest progress is always when the Q/A sessions are long, as short sessions do not give enough time to get deep enough into things.

And it could be that the only way to verify is to keep asking and waiting.
Exactly!  See, you arrived at the answer, even though it only hovers there at the moment, but it is beginning to crystallize!  Be aware though, that the word ‘verify’ should be taken as ‘intuit’, and even then it is only a stage of perception.  Remember, that new frontiers of discovery lie ahead, where scientific ‘verification’ is not possible, but you can nevertheless ‘know’ it is true because it will feel right, since answers will correlate and mesh together to form a picture you can relate to in the new landscape of knowledge you will increasingly explore.  Regard it as a ‘paper chase’, with clues along the way.  Each ‘clue’ (i.e. a new dawning perception) may be the result of a whole long session, and the thought processes it will encourage are the journey between each successive clue.  Along this road you can also use the Pendulum for purely ‘factual’ information – such as verifying whether statements, as you read them one by one, are ‘true’ or ‘false’ – and of course many questions can come from reading each statement.  The Pendulum is truly a ‘learning curve’.  And all this quite apart from it’s use in such things as Food testing, finding missing items or pets, and many more ‘practical’ applications (I leave you to explore those possibilities for now).

So, though there’s no ‘cut-and-dried’ way through inner-development in using the Pendulum I can honestly say that, having been there, it is an Adventure you’ll look back on and say it was all worth the effort and patience – and where it can lead, well…..that will be different for each individual.  But one thing is certain, you’ll be guided along the way as you were indeed guided to come across this thread.  There’s no limit – and the truth shall be known, you’ll see!

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 07, 2003, 22:01:44
I posted this in the "Question for Mayatnik" thread the other night but feel I may have placed it in the wrong area. This seems to be a lot more focused on the pendulum and such so I thought I would cut and paste my introduction and notes on the experiences I've had with the pendulum here. I just want to make sure as many people looking for answers will see it and maybe get a spark of excitement or passion for learning. I wish nothing more than to be of service to others and I hope my little part in this wonderful discussion helps at least one person in this wonderful journey called life. Please take a look, it's a bit long but worth the read. Thank you in advance!  

=======================================================================

 Wow. Well I guess I should introduce myself first. My name is Daniel and I have been a friend of Edwards (Mayatnik) for almost a year now. The circumstances of how we came to be friends is a story in itself but I will skip the big intro and get to why I am here (It's almost 4 in the morning here and I'm running on empty!)

I have been struggling for a long time now. Edward has helped me through some dark times and he's been with me through some facinating, wonderful moments as well. It has been a long and drawn out battle for me but I have finally stopped struggling and have let go. I have been reading his posts and posts of others on here for awhile now but have been in a state of confusion for a long time. I quit my high paying job, left many friends behind and decided it was time to do God's work. I struggled. I got worried, depressed, I drank, and pretty much ran away from what I knew I had to do.

The real "shock and awe" began a long time ago when I started to use the pendulum. At first it seemed hokey to me ... "yeah right" i thought. I started out with a friggen bathtub plug on a shoestring as Mayatnik helped me create. Silly I thought. Struggling to let go of my skeptism I finally got fed up and ended up throwing the damn thing accross the room one day. Weeks passed and I didn't even give the pendulum a 2nd thought. Edward would always ask me if I was practicing or what not but I'd always say "Oh i'm going to go out and buy a REAL pendulum. Low and behold time passed and I never put much effort into finding a "real" pendulum. Well one day, buy TOTAL chance and Synchronicity I ended up at a new age shop about a 2 MINUTE drive from my house! (I've lived here 5 years and had no idea this place existed) To my suprise I found an assortment of beautiful Pendulums. One specifically caught my eye. The man at the counter asked me how it felt, if I felt a connection bla bla bla I said yeah give it to me! So here I was with a real pendulum ... no bathplug dangling in front of me to make me feel silly. A real shiny beautiful Pendulum! And the circumstances that brought it to me were surreal, synchronicity at it's finest. There must be something to this I thought!

So with Edwards help I practiced. At first it was still silly to me and I felt I was fooling myself. But with time I started to get a sort of raport or connection with my pendulum ... hard to explain ... like when I went fishing as a kid and could feel the fish nibbling ... I knew when the pendulum was moving on it's own but it still was hard for me to believe. At first I asked silly fear based questions ... unimportant things. With time and Mayatniks help I learned to ask better questions. Then came the panic. All of a sudden I really started to believe. I got excited. My God I thought. A yes or no answer to ANY question in the world I wanted. It made sense. In my past I had met Wayne Dyer and he told me I could have a yes or no answer to any question I ever wanted, I just had to keep moving forward on my spiritual quest to find truth. I wish I was that wise I had thought back then! Well now it was all starting to making sense. The puzzle pieces were fitting together. Then the panic. I fell. I fell hard. I started to go out more with my friends, spent all my money, got drunk waaay to often, I was becoming an alcoholic. I stopped doing spiritual things. I stopped meditating, I stopped living and eating healthy. I had fallen apart. (This is when I decided it was time to quit my job and focus on getting myself back on track) I quit and the first few days were good ... I visited old friends, tried to organize, but then *boom* something really bad happened. I did something Aweful that I still have not told anyone to this day and still seems surreal in my mind. I screwed up. Big time. Days went buy and I lived with FEAR. Thinking I was going to get caught. There was no way I could get away with this. But the days came and went and nothing happened. God saved me. This was not the first time but this time I knew it. It was God showing me I need not worry ... just to let go. I tried. But I was so depressed that weeks had now gone buy, I'd quit my job, had NO money (still have 0$) and people were starting to question me and think I had lost my mind. I became a hermit. Did not leave my house much, drank, smoked marijuana, I ran ever deeper away from truth. But then, very recently, I had a moment, I looked at myself in the mirror and said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

So I am back. I am more alive now than I ever have been! In just days my life started to transform! I let go. I had a conversation with God and told him I was tired of fighting, tired of struggling. I asked for his will to be done. I let go. I've been flying ever since!

Now. Back to the Pendulum. I ran away because of the answers I received, they scared me, I did not want to here the truth. Everyone says they want truth but the truth (no pun intended) is that most people are too afraid to here the real truth. So they hide. They lie to themselves. They run away, as I did. No more. I have started work with the pendulum again and it is amazing! Whooo i'm so excited I just can't hide it! Step by step i'm slowly losing my fears!! Amazing! Following my heart and my intuition combined with my Pendulum things are happening that I cannot even put into words!!!! Magic! It's alive like never before! I can feel changes! big changes! BIG changes! This is what I have been waiting for ALL MY LIFE! I am awakening to things! realizing things. remembering things .... i feel like a kid again! Whoooooo!

The only word of advice I have for those starting out with the Pendulum is this. Have an open heart and an open mind! Judge nothing! If you are skeptical ... the pendulum will not work for you right away until you lose that skeptism and trust! Trust in God! My hope is that I have given some of you a spark to open your hearts and give it an honest try. People have opened there minds to stranger things and found joys and wonders that words cannot express. If you believe with an open heart that you will receive the answers to your questions this is what you will receive! Ask and ye shall receive! This is truth! I just wanted to jump on and say thank you to Mayatnik and hopefully help some of you find a treasure that may change your life and bring you much joy and truth. Anyhow it's really late now, I've gone on and on so I will leave you now and end this with a thank you. Thanks for listening my dear friends and may love and joy find you wherever you are.

- All my love
- Daniel



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on July 07, 2003, 23:30:22
Mayatnik-
I honestly didn't expect an answer today. So thank you for the quick response. But please feel free to take a day or two to respond next time! [;)]

My line of questionning for the pendulum has pretty much been focused on spiritual growth/development. I've been asking about past lives, dream themes/symbology, astral experiences, as well as current life purpose/goals/lessons. I really haven't used it much for anything beyond that. However, you are correct, I'd rather not go into details at this time regarding specifics of what I'm asking and what answers I'm being given.

Suffice to say that the guidance regarding dream symbology all 'fits' together. The spiritual concepts/discussions I've had is pretty much in line with what I perceive to be "true", although with a few modifications on my side that intuitively feel 'more right' once I got some additional information.

So overall the concepts and answers I'm given completely make sense and I intuitively understand them.  Its not so much the answers I'm being given, as it is the specific people involved. That's where I have a lot of hesitation (difficult to believe). I also keep asking if it expects me to believe what its saying. It keeps telling me NO. So I keep telling that I'll continue to ask questions, but I won't believe what it tells me until I can check this some other way.

In fact, it can also match my humor and sarcasm one on one with my own (which I guess is all mine since its my higher self). But at one point, in midst of a debate, I blurted out that it would be more likely that I'm mentally or emotionally imbalanced than what you are telling me is true. To which I received an emphatic YES. And then I simply laughed at it and asked if it thinks I'm mentally or emotionally imbalanced and it said NO. And then earlier today it threw another wrench at me. I was getting flustered and said "you're killing me, you know that" and it said YES. So it definately has a sense of humor and can 'hear' mine as well. ANd, as I've illustrated above, often times I'll use other slang terms/words and it seems to understand what I'm saying just fine. I'm assuming that this has more to do with telepathically undestanding concepts as opposed to finite word definitions?

But I did discover last week that often times I'm led into questionning. Answers to questions will prompt additional questions that appear in my head but I don't think originated from me. I recognized this right away and understand that as a step in telepathy.

And I pretty much knew what your response would be before reading your post -- "wait and see". I do realize that a lot of the information can only be 'verified' by intuition. I'm very comfortable with that route. And that's how I've been doing it up to this point. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious.

Thanks again for the advice!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: RoyHarper on July 08, 2003, 20:41:55
Quick question, what if whomever I'm speaking with consitantly disagrees with MAYATNIK's philosophy (aside from the pendulum part)?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 08, 2003, 22:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by silentwitness78

I posted this in the "Question for Mayatnik" thread the other night but feel I may have placed it in the wrong area. This seems to be a lot more focused on the pendulum and such so I thought I would cut and paste my introduction and notes on the experiences I've had with the pendulum here. I just want to make sure as many people looking for answers will see it and maybe get a spark of excitement or passion for learning. I wish nothing more than to be of service to others and I hope my little part in this wonderful discussion helps at least one person in this wonderful journey called life. Please take a look, it's a bit long but worth the read. Thank you in advance!  

=======================================================================






Greetings Daniel,

Welcome to the Astral Pulse forums[:)]

Best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 09, 2003, 00:54:47
Greetings RoyHarper,

Thats a big question for such a little sentence.
Might I ask what MAYATNIK's philosophy is? I don't recall reading it.

As I stated in a previous post, I have used the pendulum in the past but not nearly to the extent that I am using it now. In just a few short days Ive been very impressed with the results. Ive asked many questions of it and have had many things verified by the use of it. I used the pendulum to delve into your quick question and I said recently that I would post my results with the pendulum here at some stage. Perhaps now is as good a time as any.

Q: Does MAYATNIK have a philosophy?
A: Strong NO

Q: Does the pendulum consistantly disagree with MAYATNIK in what he says?
A: NO

Q: Does the pendulum EVER disagree with MAYATNIK in what he says about the pendulum?
A: Strong NO

Q:Does the Pendulum operate through the guides' *computer* as Mayatnik says?
A: Strong YES

Q: Does a guide talk to the Pendulum via the their Computer?
A: Strong YES

Q: And sometimes a 'monitor'(guide) does this also. Is this correct?
A: YES

Q: So, is their 'computer' being used like a kind of 'switchboard'?
A: YES

Q: Does MAYATNIK recieve his communications by telepathy?
A: YES

Q: Is RoyHarper correct in this?
A: NO

Q: Is RoyHarper using the pendulum correctly?
A: Strong NO

Q: Should I post this list of Q&A in response to RoyHarper?
A: YES

( I have a tendancy to ask questions with respect and as such use polite mannerisms such as please and thank-you along with the questions).

I could have kept going with this line of questioning but I think these are sufficiant to answer your question Roy.

I invite anyone still skeptical to use the pendulum in a similar fashion. When questions are approached in the right way, you may be surprised at just how accurate the pendulum really is [:)]

Take care,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on July 09, 2003, 12:06:11
Hi Parmenion!

I've actually done similar questions myself with my pendulum. However, my answers vary slightly from the ones that you received. But the concept/intent is consistent with yours. And I think the questions I asked will explain why they vary and why they could be varying for RoyHarper. It doesn't mean that he's right and Mayatnik is wrong though. In my view there really isn't a right or wrong, rather differing perceptions. Below is my line of questionning:

Mayatnik states that the pendulum, used as he describes, is meant to be a divining tool. Is this correct?  Yes

Mayatnik believes that the information coming through his pendulum is from his guide. Is that correct? Yes

Karek, Mayatnik's guide, is understood to be from an alien race called Pleiadians. Is that correct? Yes

Is the information coming from my pendulum given from my guide? No

Is the information coming from my pendulum from any alien entity? No

Is the information coming from my pendulum from my higher self? Yes

Mayatnik describes an alien computer as being the routing mechanism through which information is sent to the pendulum. Is this correct? Yes

Is an alien computer routing information to my pendulum? No

Is the information Mayatnik is providing true based on his belief and current perceptions? Yes

Is the information that you are telling my true based on my belief and current perceptions? Yes

So the information provided by the pendulum can be contradictory for two individuals and yet be the truth for each of them based on their current understanding. Correct? Yes

Whether the information is channeled through an alien, higher self or some other guide, is it all originating from one source? Yes

Is that one source what I understand to be called God? Yes

So this is another example of society labeling one thing many different names? Yes

So in my mind, as is evidenced by the questions and answers I received, information could contradict what Mayatnik states based on what an individual currently believes/understands. And I believe that Mayatnik has said as much himself several times.

To me this makes perfect sense. So I wouldn't necessarily 'worry' about whether or not the information you receive is consistent with everyone else. I am receiving information daily from my pendulum. And I'm certain that at least some of it is from my higher self. However, the jury is still out on whether or not I believe all of it to come from my higher self. Hope that helps!



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: RoyHarper on July 09, 2003, 15:00:11
Parmenion, that's quite an interesting response.

Since I'm obviously misusing the above stated method, could you troubleshoot with your pendulum what I'm specificaly doing wrong.  I'm sure it would be great help to not only myself, but also others on this board.

Also, whomever I'm speaking to (assuming I was speaking correctly) claims to have a name.  Moreover, he can give answers that are in accordance with my thoughs but also others that are not.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Rob on July 09, 2003, 15:26:48
Hey

lol we should make this thread a book or something.....

Anyway I haven't had time to read it through, so my points here may have already been covered and if so apologies. I'm at work you see hehehe....

ok...

- With respect to divination, I prefer applied kinesiology - that is, pressing the 3rd finger tip on to the nail of the first finger. For yes replies it stays strong, for no the muscles get weaker. I find this seems to cut the conscious mind out more effectively than pendulums. However, conscious in
iterferance can always screw up results
- All forms of divination are essentially psychic abilities and will increase in accuracy with your energy levels. Just because the pendulum tells you something, doesn't necessarily mean it is right, its just the opinion of your subconscious mind. Important factors are therefore how uncluttered the SC mind is, how strong its connection of other zones of info is eg akasha, telepathic connections, etc etc; amongst others. You sunconscious mind is fallible when it doesnt have enough info. Further, the subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality. It is possible to pick up on undercurrents of fantasy and believe them to be real, when they are not.
- A tool is not necessarily needed for divination, it might help, but it is still just a tool. Once I came back from holiday (sailing) with very high and clean energy levels. I decided to do a test. Each time I went to get the bus to uni, which do not come at particularly regular times, I picked a random number like "36" - the first that came to mind. Often doing this without even knowing what the present time was. Then I'd get down to one of the bus stops, and the bus consistently arrived at precisely the predicted time. I think I did this about 6 times in a row (leading to something like a total p=1 in 500,000-750,000 to chance, buses come every 10-15 minutes), with 100% accuracy. Then slowly the ability faded, I'd start being accurate to 2 minutes, 3 minutes and eventually it ended with no real acuracy at all as my energy levels dropped back down again. But it was useful while it lasted [:D]. This corresponded with the clarity of my dreams. Both are factors that are affected, indeed powered by, the level of and abundancy of energy possessed by the individual (I'd also being doing a lot of NEW while on holiday). The simple "picking numbers out the air" is also how I do telepathy type things eg guessing someones age randomly (even people I am playing against (action quake 2 !!!) online, or for instance a while ago guessing the age of a homeless guys dog (I know nothing about dogs and apparent this one looked nothing like its real age) lol it can really freak people out, but generally they put it down to luck (though I do tell them I am psychic! Let them believe what they want...).
- The accuracy here on an internet forum when investigating other people will be more accurate than eg guessing lottery numbers, as simple telepathy is easier than "totally random" future events.
- Each form of divination seems to have its own field built up around it - on personal and group levels. For instance, a lot of people might do automatic typing, but because this has been used to channel entities so much, you are less likely to get a pure unaffected stream from your subconscious mind. My pendulum skills used to be very accurate (VERY useful for exams!!!), but once I asked my higher self to help me move the pendulum to the correct answer, and ever since then I haven't been able to get one single accurate answer from the damn thing! Even at times when it was blatently wrong. (sorry Mayatnik but.....) Inviting other forces except yourself to do the moving leaves an open door, whether you like it or not, and in my experience drastically destroys accuracy. Others may find different....and this might have been a manifestation of some sort of internal force/belief, I dont know, but do doubt it. This is the same reason why you should never use a quiji board, because by the law of similarity (morphic field resonance if you like), it has been terribly corrupted over time and you'll likely just attract yourself a neg than get any positive answers from the thing.

Mayatnik - I'm going to be honest, for better or worst, but I have yet to find any source of channeled info that presents a real higher level of knowledge and understanding than I already possess. Quite to the contrary I have been "had" more than once eg "the only planet of choice" I read it all and more when I was younger and more naive. Now I know its total BS - very flowery, sounds very nice, comforting and flowery, but ultimately untrue. There is a lot of highly inaccurate channeled info, which has seriously corrupted new age thought over the past century. So, my question, what is - in your opinion - the best, most accurate, channeled info you are aware of?

Cheers guys

Rob


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 09, 2003, 19:31:43
=== APPROACHES TO QUESTIONING ===

Two very good postive little Q/A seesions in the above posts by Permenion and Novice, each in their own way – and that, particularly because the ‘theme’ for the questioning is basically the same, is ideal for examining different approaches and for members to see what can be expected as a result.  So, the purpose of this post is to do just that as I take a closer look at the questiona and answers, to see what has been derived and how, with modifications in places, clearer answers may be obtained….. and I thank Permenion and Novice for this opportunity to use their good sessions given here as a helpful model for others.  Now, for the first time – due to the feedback in those posts (not forgetting RoyHarper’s initial input sparking it off) – we can begin to move on to the next stage in using the Pendulum; that is, increased level of individual skill (each will be different, depending on their approach and perception) and this can now be addressed better as a result.

First, let’s take an overview: The Q/A sessions here discussed are in response to what RoyHarper raises in his short post.  In this, it can be seen that neither Parmenion nor Novice have opted for a short ‘answer’, and have rightly examined all around the ‘issue’.

These two Q/A sessions illustrate something very important to grasp in addressing issues of perception.  So, I commend Parmenion for submitting such a direct approach here to RoyHarper.  In fact, both Q/A sessions have specifically questioned both myself and him – and that is as it should be, because to avoid such directness would be ‘prey’ to the conditioning prevalent in our society.  However, this must be seen in its correct light, and not as some ‘attack’ on an individual.  The fact is, that the Pendulum should be used to gain higher Truth, since each person is actually ‘right’ (unless they are telling lies) at their individual level of perception; so, this is not about ‘judgement’ or ‘attack’ but of seeking to grasp that higher perspective which can then benefit all by bringing it out into the open for discussion.  

Thus, the Pendulum is being used in this manner to remove ingrained conditioning as the user progresses with their sessions (along with other things for inner-development) and improving, if the user is diligent, the way in which they can approach all things that society accepts as ‘right’, ‘truth’ etc, but which are so often the rusult of ongoing group-misperceptions at the very least.  So, the Pendulum teaches the individual to first of all think for themselves, rather than accepting the ‘norm’.  Therefore, it liberates and helps the person lay the foundation to build higher and reach perspectives of understanding that can not be attained until the early lessons have been learned and the weight of former misconceptions shed.  The rate of inner-growth then becomes exponential, and doors are opened to realms where things are very much different from how Man perceives from that former ground-level.

I have said before, that using the Pendulum leads easily to Telepathy.  This is firstly because the constant practice reinforces and strengths the ‘link’ between the subconscious (acting here as an interface for receiving) and the Earth-conscious mind.  Secondly, Telepathy works by transmitting ‘symbols’ rather than words.  In fact, we think in symbols, and everyone knows the expression “A picture is worth a thousand words”.  So, what actually happens in the person’s Earth-connected mind in everyday life?  What happens is that we process symbols and convert them into what is useful for interaction based on what we ‘know’.  What we know is our perception of reality – in other words, how much of the true picture we actually recognise and can relate to is limited by our acquired ‘knowledge’ at any stage.  As we progress, those ‘symbols’ become clearer.  An example of this is in ancient texts – the people of that time saw craft in the skies flowln by ‘visitors’ to our planet (as Sitchin reveals in great detail) but although they witnessed such things, and even interacted with those visitors as evidenced in the texts, their language and how they could relate to this was limited, because they had not themselves reached that stage of being able to ‘fly’.  Thus, we have stories from mythology of ‘Magic Carpets’ (these stories were carried by word of mouth by nomads in a way that could be grasped by all) and paintings in the middle ages, depicting angel figures in the air sitting in shells (an abstract of the true reality), yet there were also pictures which have been preserved that clearly show ‘rockets’ with fire coming from underneath and descriptions that correlate very closely.  So, it is all down to perception of the individual, and what society as a whole at any one time indoctrinates and imposes as the ‘approved norm’ that the people are expected to accept if they wish to progress as being ‘credible’ in that conditioned society.  In the light of this, what the Pendulum gives as answers to some deep (and even not so deep) questions may appear to be incredible if not non-credible.  Not only is Truth stranger than fiction (or the play-out of perception), but Reality is only what we can perceive  at each stage of our personal inner-growth.

Some are now becoming Telepathic in our society, and there are  misperceptions by those who are looking on at this change.  People say to me quite often, “Can you read my mind, or anybody’s mind?”   In that question there is a subconscious fear, our society being what it is – quite apart from the notion of ‘privacy’.  To an extent, the Pendulum could also be viewed in that way by some.   I can state clearly here, that there is no such thing as ‘human to human telepathy’ that is possible in our present stage of evolution, for the reasons I have just outlined.  If it were so, then a person could find out another’s movements and use that information to break in and rob their house, or use any ‘private’ information thus gained for their own ends.  Therefore it is not possible – or, to be more precise, it is not allowed to us by the higher realms that monitor our progress here on Earth.  Even they have strict rules for ‘privacy’ between themselves in their telepathic intercommunication and, to put it very simply here for now, a higher Being must do the equivalent of ‘knock’ or be ‘invited in’ by another Being or even a human being (which is why I say they come on receiving the ‘call’, and even then only if they deem it appropriate and if the person is ready or a lesson can be learned by the person by that interaction of whatever kind).  Scientific research would seem to indicate that certain people do exhibit a degree of telepathy (according to tests done with twins, for instance), but despite the scientists’ aspirations this is NOT the case.  What is happening is that there is a very close link between two people, and strength of ‘feeling’ is the enabler of this, which should more accurately be described as sentience.  The person literally senses strong emotion, and emotion is the best carrier; this is also the mechanism of Distant Healing, where the healing-energy is ‘transmitted’ to the other person’s electromagnetic field (and this works on animals and even plants too!) by projecting Love and Compassion with the strength of the sender’s emotions.  In the same way, Fear can be transmitted for that is also a very powerful emotion the antidote to which is, of course, Love.

Telepathy then – and even the Pendulum – can only communicate via the ‘source’ (the meaning of that word obviously depends on the person’s perception).  The Pendulum can be seen, by a close analogy, to work rather like a mobile phone that is connected to the service ‘provider’ (via their ‘computer’)which then patches-in the destination requested, or, if the person does not have sufficient ‘status’ at that time, an assigned re-routing is done; either their ‘computer’ itself (which is unimaginably advanced) will deal with questions (in any language or thought-pattern, terrestrial or otherwise) and process them, or allow for a ‘monitor’ guide or a teacher-guide etc.  In the case where a person already has an assigned guide then this is most likely to be the ‘destination’ of the call and requests for answers.  A person can, using the Pendulum, and depending on ‘status’ again, request to use the computer to give answers – but that request will be overridden if the ‘computer’ decides otherwise (since it has the person’s full life-file and their stage of progress) in which case it will re-route as necessary.

I provide the above information as the next stage in understanding the Pendulum, and naturally all that I have said can and should be checked as practice along with as many further questions that the user can think of, or which often ‘pops’ into their head from seemingly nowhere, but is actually ‘placed’ there to help the person examine a particular path of questioning better especially so in areas outside of normal perception and which otherwise might not seem obvious to ask.

Let’s look now at some of the actual questions put in the last two posts…..

Q:  Mayatnik believes that the information coming through his pendulum is from his guide. Is that correct?
A:  Yes


This answer is not strictly correct.  I only use the Pendulum very occasionally now – and that is normally for the purpose of demonstration in teaching (in which case my guide normally ‘sends’ to the Pendulum), or for certain types of ‘access’ to the computer itself and even this is often in conjunction with telepathy.  So, I haven’t really used the Pendulum in the way that members are now learning to do for over 6 yers.   The answer given to Novice is, however, mainly correct in the sense that when I use the Pendulum it has most often been to communicate with my guide.  And I don’t ‘believe’ it is from my guide that the answers come, because I have other means of knowing – firstly because from a very early stage (within the first week from starting to use the Pendulum, in fact) I was also receiving in my head ‘verbal’ confirmations that were more than just ‘yes’ or ‘no’… such as “That’s quite right”, or “Exactly!  That’s the way it is”, or  “Definitely not!” or “Not always, but usually” (and this again illustrates why a person needs to not simply take the first answer given, especially if the Pendulum does not give a vigorous response).  One is not meant to ‘believe’ answers (or the ‘source’) but to validate them by extra questions, trying always not to be limited in this by present perception but to be open to all possibilities.  To question does not mean to doubt the truthfulness or intelligence of the ‘source’ but to seek the fullest knowledge.  So, deeper questioning will always reveal more (such as what I’ve given above).

Doubting can only lead to uncertainty and confusion, and continual doubting will in any event cause the Pendulum to give the person a ‘reality check’ to prompt them to think again about their line and manner of questioning – and in some cases can result in the Pendulum stopping working altogether if the person does not have the right attitude and will remain like that until such time as the person genuinely starts to approach it in a more positive and respectful way.  While the larger majority accept this and are progressing well (a few even extremely well), a small minority still berate the Pendulum or take umbridge when it gives them obviously ‘wrong’ answers, and a couple have contacted me to ask how they can get their Pendulums,  which have stopped dead, to start working again,  There is nothing I can do in such a case, except to explain why it has happened so that they might see things in a clearer way and the Pendulum start working again when the guides decide to switch it back on.  If a person asks “Does 2+3=5?” and uses this as a ‘test’ of the intelligence of the Pendulum, then there is a questioning of the teacher’s credibility.  Why should it answer, when the person knows clearly that the answer is 5?  And, it still doesn’t prove the teacher’s ability even if the questions went through the whole gamut of maths, or any other subject.  The object of the Pendulum is to teach, not to just give answers.  The whole idea of learning is about asking questions and seeing how the answers obtained can be fitted together from the jigsaw pieces emerging that are meant to increase a person’s level of perception.  The way forward, always, is to ask “Am I thinking in the right way here?” or, “Am I seeing this coloured by my perception?” or similar, when an answer appears to be wrong.  The idea of the Pendulum (or any Higher Being) ‘testing’ the person might better be looked at, if a person has a problem seeing this, as ‘stretching’ the person for them to rethink their condtioning in some way at that time.

Again, taking Novice’s questions that he asks the Pendulum:

Q:  Is the information coming from my pendulum given from my guide?
A:  No
Q:  Is the information coming from my pendulum from any alien entity?
A:  No

----- Note here: an ‘entity’ is not a Being (this one example of how words have come to be used as interchangeable in society, similarly ‘spirit’ and ‘soul’ are not the same thing – so that topic is good for further questioning).

Q:  Is the information coming from my pendulum from my higher self?
A:  Yes

----- Note here:  For many, depending on the person’s perception and the questions being asked as a result, the Higher Self (which is actually the ‘soul’ Being) is quite capable of dealing with most ‘general’ enquires since it is connected to the ‘Collective Consciousness’ (which is another term for the ‘computer’ in how humans can grasp this). The purpose of a guide is quite distinct from that of the ‘soul’ or ‘Higher Self’ since the latter is here to experience through the ‘vehicle’ (personality/individual) we call the body and the guide teaches higher lessons with a view to the person helping others in a special way as and when the guide deems they are ready (and first will come usually a ‘monitor’).  Again, a lot more to it than the simple ‘yes’ answer gives, so each answer can always lead further.

Q:  Is an alien computer routing information to my pendulum?
A:  No

----- Note here: Man’s notion of aliens and also their ‘computers’ is not able to grasp the reality – The Startrek image comes to mind, but this is only a mere shadow of the reality.  Any ‘real’ Startrek computer is actually a ‘living entity’ in a way that is not possible to understand on earth, and that in turn is linked etremely closely to the Collective Consciousness (call it the ‘mainframe’ if you like, but that again is not even approaching any kind of conceivably viable analogy).  Much questioning would have to be done to begin to approach a glimmer of understanding about this, but the exploration is worth the effort and is truly fascinating I can assure you.

Q:  Whether the information is channeled through an alien, higher self or some other guide, is it all originating from one source?
A:  Yes
Q:  Is that one source what I understand to be called God?
A:  Yes

----- Note here:  If you think of this in terms of the human brain and
the mind that ‘inhabits’ it, then the notion of ‘source’ ( by whatever
means – ‘Higher Self’, ‘computer’, guide) and think of that also in terms of being all-embracing in the sense of a ‘Collective Consciousness’ then a very rough analogy can be drawn, in which ‘God’ is the Apex ‘intelligence’.  But, this still in no way describes the actuality.  Because, in each galaxy there is such a ‘God’ and each ‘God’ is a component-part (there are no adequate words) of Prime Creator, the ultimate ‘source’, as far as this can be taken but in fact extends further into infinity.  Each ‘element’ of Creation therefore has its place in a Hierarchy of Being, Thought, and Communication in the integral ‘whole’.  This ‘concept’ that my guide has explained to me in detail, and which I’m attempting to give a simplified picture here for the reader to explore themselves can be approached initially in this way……Just as the molecules in our body are part of our organs, which in turn are part of us on a planet ‘entity’ as part of the Solar System which is just one of an infinite star systems – and, looking out at the stars they are akin to the atoms that are the ‘core’ element of all we notionalize as ‘matter’, yet in all matter there is order generated by Thought from Prime Creator.

Q:  So this is another example of society labeling one thing many different names?
A:  Yes

----- Yes indeed!  We say that words can be ‘symbolic’, yet in reality we are trying to grasp the symbols and putting words to them without realizing that we are not seeing the ‘symbol’ thought in its True Light due to our perception and the ‘colouration’ of light reflected that conditioning  distorts and even blocks until we really open our minds  to see the true beauty and magnificence of Creation and our place in it all.  The Pendulum is the tool to light the road back to the Truth, and will, when a guide decides, bring the Telepathy that comes to those who are diligent and receptive….. then they can know the ‘bigger picture’ and channel that Truth for others.

I will leave it at that for now, and let members explore so that they can bring to these boards what they discover to share and discuss to seek True Understand.  As my signature says, “We never stop learning – it goes on Forever”!

PS>
Just as I’m posting this, I notice the reply from Roy Harper to Paremion – some good points there Roy to be answered, and I’ll leave that to Parmenion and others to see what emerges for the time being.   A very interesting post from Inguma I notice, for members to think about – I enjoyed reading that, and I’ll post a reply in due course – but, again, let’s see what members have to say and get those Pendulums working on as many points as possible for discussion.  I’ve written enough for the moment, don’t want to hog the thread.


With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 10, 2003, 00:19:07
quote:
Originally posted by RoyHarper

Parmenion, that's quite an interesting response.

Since I'm obviously misusing the above stated method, could you troubleshoot with your pendulum what I'm specificaly doing wrong.  I'm sure it would be great help to not only myself, but also others on this board.

Also, whomever I'm speaking to (assuming I was speaking correctly) claims to have a name.  Moreover, he can give answers that are in accordance with my thoughs but also others that are not.





Hi RoyHarper!

I took up your invitation to find out where you were going wrong. I’ve posted the Q+A below for you to see. They are exactly as I asked them except for the fact that I abbreviated your name when putting them in type. I’ve also omitted the mannerisms such as please and thank-you that I use. I did this only because I’m not very fast on the keyboard. I hope the following will be of help to yourself and others with regards to the correct use of the pendulum.




Do you know who is communicating with RH through the pendulum?  YES

Is it a Pleiadian?  NO

Is he communicating with the *computer* ?   YES

Has the computer told RH it has a name?  NO

Did the computer tell RH he was communicating with someone who had a name?   YES

Is he communicating with a Pleiadian via the computer?   NO

Is anyone or anything using the computer to communicate with RH?   NO

Has RH been communicating with anything but the computer since he began using the pendulum?    NO




Is RH misusing the pendulum?   NO

Is he making mistakes with the pendulum?  YES

Is he following the method outlined by MAYATNIK?   NO

Is RH following the method outlined by MAYATNIK as RH understands it?   NO

Is RH aware he is not using the pendulum correctly?   NO

Is he aware he is not using it as outlined by MAYATNIK?   NO

Does RH believe he is using the pendulum as outlined by MAYATNIK?   YES

Would RH have better results with the pendulum if he used it as outlined by MAYATNIK?    YES

Are there aspects of MAYATNIK’s guidelines that RH is not clear on?  YES

Should he re-read through MAYATNIK’s posts?  YES

Will re-reading through MAYATNIK’s posts give RH a better understanding of how the pendulum works?   YES




Is RH receiving false information from the pendulum?   YES

Is he receiving false information from the pendulum to show him he is using it incorrectly?   YES

Is the pendulum trying to teach RH how to use it correctly?   YES

If RH takes a different approach will he have more success with the pendulum?   YES



RH has asked me to find out what specifically he is doing wrong. Can you tell me?   YES

Is RH physically using the pendulum wrong in any way?  NO

Is RH asking wrong questions?  NO

Are any questions wrong questions to ask?   NO

Is RH taking the answers at face value?   NO

Should he be?   NO

Is RH’s failing in not approaching the questions from different angles when he feels the answer is wrong?   YES

If RH changes his approach to the questions will he get more accurate responses?  YES

So, if RH feels the answer to a question is wrong he should definitely take a different approach to the question? Is this correct?  YES

Is this what the pendulum is trying to show RH by giving him ‘false’ information?   YES


Will this series of Q+A help RH and others to get a better understanding of how the pendulum works?   YES


You can see how I’ve used different approaches to the same question for verification and/or more information. When you get used to it the questions start to flow naturally, almost like you are having a conversation with the pendulum.

Hope that’s of some help to you [:)]

With Best Regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 10, 2003, 01:31:57
I gotta know how you guys remember all of your questions! Especially Parmenian who seems to post 25+ ... I can remember a good 3-5 from last night I asked.

If anybody out there was logging my success or something, here's a lil update.  Yay.

Couple days ago I started to get a name.  I learned it is 5 letters long.  I learned the first 3 letters, but I will probably ReDo that because I confused MYSELF asking them :X  (I'm thinking making 6 rows and 5 columns...then saying, is it it rows 1-3?  Etc.  That'll be very precise.)

I think I asked if this was my own personal guide and I got a yes on it...   I try not to dig into their own personal stuff as much as my own problems.  Space it out sorta.

I'll TRY to write down what I can...But you gotta tell me how you do it parm!  :D

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 10, 2003, 04:45:31
Here are some tips for Squeek, and anybody else who’s wanting to find out a name or word(s) using the Pendullum.

Let’s just say you’ve been told you can be given a name (or word)…..

> “Is it one word?” … YES
> “More than 5 letter? … YES
> “Less than 10 letters? … YES
>  “More than 7 letters? … NO.
(it can only be 6 or 7 letters)
>  “Is it 6 letters? … NO
>  “So, it’s 7 letters … YES

Now we can put on the piece of paper 6 dashes to represent the letters…..
==========================

   
--- --- --- --- --- ---
1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6

=================================


Now, write the letters of the alphabet underneath on the paper –
with 3 to each row…..

===============

(row 1)    A   B   C    
(row 2)    D   E   F
(row 3)    G   H   I
(row 4)     J   K  L
(row 5)    M   N   O
(row 6)    P   Q   R
(row 7)    S   T   U
(row 8)    V   W   X
(row 9)    Y   Z   -

=====================


There are 9 rows but this method is very quick –
Simply say to the Pendulum “I will point to each row of 3 letters in turn, so please indicate by ‘yes’ when the next letter I’m seeking is in that row”.   Note:  I have included a dash ( - ) after the Z, and this is useful in the case of hyphenated names and words (of course, it helps if you ask whether the name is hyphenated and will it be included in the letter count).

Then, all you have to do is (with the Pendulum in the hand you don’t write with) point with a pencil to the side of each row in turn,
asking “Is it in this row?” … and watch the Pendulum for a ‘yes’.

When you get a ‘yes’ response, ask “Is it…..” (saying each letter slowly in turn of the 3 in that row, again watching the Pendulum.
A variation on this is to do the whole thing silently, pointing with the pencil to each letter in turn.  When you get a ‘YES’ response, then simply write that letter in the space where it goes above the dashes already set out for the number of letters.

At any stage you can say, “Let’s check what we have so far…I’ll spell out the letters…..”

In the above example let’s say you have so far got
T  H  O  M   < ----- watch the Pendulum as you  say each letter.

….. you could even have a guess at this stage (to speed things up) if you wish… and say, “Is the name :   Thomas?”
But, be careful – if it is a guide’s name it may well not be a terrestrial spelling or any recognisable name….
My guide, Karek, for instance could be guessed wrongly as Karen, or even Karyl… based on “K A R - - “   having been obtained.

Another thing that needs to be understood when getting names or words from the Pendulum, is that sometimes these will be given in phonetic spelling  (because the letters are transmitted as a ‘literal’, which means a speech-pattern that produces a kind of ‘phoneme’.
And, depending on the language of the person and to some extent their spelling ability (whether they use ‘ph’ for the ‘f’ sound for example) you could get a name spelling of:
SOPHIE, SOFIE, or SOFY (being a 6, 5 or 4 letter word also).
(this is particularly the case if you are going through the ‘computer’, but if you are talking to a guide via the Pendulum, then it is often more possible that you will be given any Earth names/words with the correct spelling, but will still depend on other factors and how the guide wants to present it.

Lastly, it is possible that you might just hear the name come into your head – so listen…. and if you think you hear it, then ask, “Did I hear…” and say what you thought you heard.  The Pendulum will tell you if you’re right.  You may even hear a ‘Yes’!

I hope this method (one of several) helps any members who are wanting to find names or words using the Pendulum.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 10, 2003, 08:03:12
Hi Squeek,

If you are having trouble remembering what questions you have asked try this. Keep a piece of paper with you and jot down the Q+A (in shorthand if you like). I have allways found that writing things down helps me to remember. Often times I don't have to read what I've written down, the fact that I've written it down is enough to help me remember.

You could even keep a log of your sessions with the pendulum if you wish


With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 11, 2003, 01:57:44
You sure she won't be offended with me going (hold on a minute, I's gotsa right this down)?  Seems to me like she would.

Tonight should be fun (11 pm here).  There's a HUGE thunderstorm overhead.  I'm gonna go outside and yell at it.  See if that works.

~Squeek

PS - name tonight!  I'll try.  I'll log my Qs


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 11, 2003, 05:17:26
Sorry, I need to bump this thread up one notch to get a white background as I had previewed my post with a white background and it looks terrible in blue! [:D] Hope no one minds! [:P]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 11, 2003, 05:19:14
Hello all !

     I was reading over a post by Mayatnik and came accross the soul vs spirit item. As he was on MSN at the time, I had asked him if he could explain the difference a little bit better to me as I felt I had some idea but didn't quite have a good grasp of it yet. He suggested it was a perfect situation to practice with the pendulum and see if I could get to the bottom of it on my own. So off I went. I decided to send him my answers via e-mail for his opinions and maybe some suggestions on further questioning so as to help me get better at snooping out the answers. I decided to post my little adventure here in hopes of giving some members food for thought and maybe give some of you a spark of motivation to go out and try this for yourselves as experience is the best teacher.  

I always start out asking the pendulum something like : Pendulum, is it O.K. if I asked you some questions at this time?

If it is a yes I always say thank you and continue with my questioning. I always make sure to ask in a polite and appreciative manner (as I truely am appreciative) and start the questions with something like : Pendulum, can you please tell me if ...

1. Spirit and soul are the same thing? no

I have learned first hand that if you try to test the pendulum to prove to yourself that it is working it will not work and may even give you wrong answers (seeming to make you even more skeptical and trapped in a viscious circle!) You either have an open mind and open heart and TRUST or you will have a tough time as I did for so long. This thread is great for opening your mind and helping you get past your skeptism as we can see so many others having success and sharing their experiences.

(Parmenion, is a great example of how quickly one can grow with the pendulum as I was telling Mayatnik last night, his questioning skils are superb and he has learned how to quickly jump from one string of questions to another to get to the answers he is looking for and confirming them as well. Take a look at some of his Q & A sessions they are fabulous learning tools.)

Anyhow, the following is the rest of my first Q & A session with the pendulum in regards to the soul/spirit. Mayatnik's responses have been highlighted in blue, questions in red, and my personal notes in green.

2.
a> Is spirit inside my body? no

inside the body isn't accurate.

the spirit is that which makes the person individual, ie. the individual personality, drive etc, in fact, all the things that make up the attributes of the chakras, so it is also the etheric body, which can sometimes be seen on the outside by some people.


   b> Is my soul inside my body? no

This is correct, it isn't inside the body, but will need many questions for you to puzzle this one out. But, you can find out if your ask enough.

I had an idea from my readings that the soul or spirit was not located inside the physical body, but it does make you wonder, where are they then?
I will investigate with further questioning and update in a future post.


3.
a> Do animals have souls? yes

They have what is called a group soul, Cat is one such, Dog is another, and so on. You can ask more questions about this, such as where do they go when they die and ask about culture (archetypes) also something that human groups have, e.g. the Russian Soul type is a culture group.

I have read about these group souls awhile ago, I remember having a hard time grasping it. I will have to follow up with further questioning.

b> Do animals have spirits? yes

Their strongest indicators of this are personality and how they attract to each other (also a quality In humans for evolutionary genetic matching)

c> Do bugs have souls? no

They don't have intelligence, another indicator of a soul.

I knew those dirty cockroach's had no souls! (I don't like bugs hehe [}:)][:P])

d> Do bugs have spirits? yes

All living things have a spirit, the indicator of life a dynamic electromagnetic field is a sign of this.

e> Do plants have souls? no

They have a function in the ecological system, and are tenacious.

f> Do plants have spirits? no

Not in the sense of higher living things (eg. no personality etc) but they do have dynamic responses, such as protection mechanisms that are very intricate, so in that sense they interact far more with their surroundings than people could imagine.

4.
a> Does my soul come back with me after death? When I am reincarnated? No answer (kept swinging)

This is a confused/ambiguous question (really 2 questions) and not well defined. Better to rephrase it?..

Assuming the question refers to whether the soul has discrete lifetimes of experience we can ask:

Q: Does the soul re-incarnate

A: YES

Q: Does it re-incarnate another body immediately for another life

A: NO

Q: Do some souls spend considerable periods between reincarnating?

A: YES


I figured I needed to rephrase my questions, I just wasn't sure how to go about it. These are good examples of keeping questions simple and flowing forward. (something I still need some practice with)

b> Does my spirit come back? yes

Certain traits do to aid in the lifetime, and these are added to the spirit (there is an element of genetic-selection too) of the person that will be shaped in that lifetime, and which was preplanned to be for a purpose.

Interesting.

5.
a> Is it possible for some humans to see my soul? no
b> Is it possible for some humans to see my spirit? yes

The personality and other traits show, also the electromagnetic field and and/or chakras can be photographed by Curlian methods or seen by some clairvoyants.

It sure would be neat to have a picture of my Chakras taken, I'd sure love to know how they were doing.

c> Is it possible for some animals to see my soul? no
d> Is it possible for some animals to see my spirit? yes

Similar to as in 5b

6.
a> Can a persons soul cease to exist? no
b> Can a persons spirit ceast to exist? no

The spirit is actually stored more questions can be asked about this.

Intriguing Indeed! I take it has something to do with the Akashic Records and such? Definately something I will investigate further with the pendulum!

7.
a> Can a person have more than one soul at the same time? no

A soul experiences a lifetime.

b> Can a person have more than one spirit at the same time? yes

We'd call this split personality as a simple answer, but there is such a thing as a walkin and overlay (terms that would need to be read about in channeled material, especially such as Dolores Cannon?s <Between Death and Life> to fully grasp this. Again, many questions arise here that can be asked.

I was shocked when I got this answer, as I thought about it I thought maybe it had something to do with being possessed or something arother. Didn't think about split personalities, hrmm this raises a bunch of questions in my mind. Looks like my pendulum will be busy tonight.

8.
a> Is spirit the same as mind? no
b> Is soul the same as mind? no

The mind as a human being knows it, is the minder of the person in simple terms, dealing with all aspects of living in the physical world.

9.
a> Can a soul be hurt or damaged in any way? no
b> Can a spirit be hurt or damaged in any way? no

This would take many questions to explore. The short answer is that the soul and spirit grow, either slowly or rapidly depending on the experiences gained hurt and damage are subjective human words.

I would definately love for them to grow rapidly vs slowly, so I will definately be exploring this area closely.

10.
People always say ghosts are spirits or lost souls so ....

 a> Are ghosts spirits? no

The Spirit is, by definition, actually the interface between soul and body for the purpose of a lifetime experience. After physical death the spirit is stored, and not as we know it.

b> Are ghoses souls? yes

The soul is the surviving awareness in simple terms that manifests in life as a consciousness of those surroundings it is experiencing. But, very often, what people think is a ghost is only the replay of emotions remaining in an electromagnetic field (rather like a holographic video) and not the soul itself which will be elsewhere outside of time as we know it.

11.
a> Can someone steal your soul? no

On death, the soul simply returns from whence it came.

I guess that episode where Milhouse buys Bart's soul was a hoax! [^]

b> Can someone steal your spirit? no

It can only be supressed for a time, either by depression or by others. The life-challenge is to keep up your spirit, as they say.

12.
a> Is it my soul I perceive in my dreams? No answer

Wrongly defined question, your soul perceives. (You can't look at your soul, as in a mirror)

b> Is it my spirit I perceive in my dreams? No answer

Wrongly defined question? You may play out a perception using the attributes of the spirit that is your character role, or even adopt another character to play a part as a virtual experience.

13.
a> Is there such a thing as a bad or negative soul? no

b> Is there such a thing as a bad or negative spirit? no

Good and Bad/Evil etc ... are our perceptions here on Earth. They are simply polarities by which to balance as one goes through life in a role.

14.
a> Can a soul be measured in any way? no
b> Can a spirit be measured in any way? no

Any measurement (obviously not by tape-measure!) would assume a qualatitive assessment by another person, and that would be subjective There is assessment that confers assignment in the hierarchical order, but that is not by any measurement, rather it is (as best can be described here) by affinity as a result of accumulative experiences gained, many questions would need to be asked to seek further understanding of this.

Indeed. I'm guessing you mean hierarchical order as in angels, archangels, cherubs, etc. As in rankings and such. Interesting, looks like I will have to ask many questions to get to the bottom of this.


15.
a> Do human fetus' have a soul? no

A soul is assigned to a living body after a certain minimum period before birth, and may be at any time up to the actual birth itself.

This question popped into my head at the last minute and seemed important with the whole yes/no to abortion argument going on. I was surprised at the answer but it does make a lot of sense when you think about it.

b> Do human fetus' have a spirit? yes

The saying The spirit left the body is an indication of death, so it is also that the definition of life requires there to be a spirit present (as in anima) for it to be animated.

Well that's it for now, I am off to work with my pendulum for awhile. As I've written this post, many questions have entered my mind and hopefully it has given you some food for thought as well. I will update you with my discoveries as soon as I get a chance. Hopefully Mayatnik will be generous enough to give me his ideas on my findings as his input has been very helpful indeed. Thanks again!

- All my love
- Daniel



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Terry B on July 11, 2003, 13:03:53
Hey Daniel,

How about asking whether there is human spirit or soul before 4 month in the wombs and after 4 month.

I'm not really sure on the definition of spirit and soul at this moment so maybe you can ask for both and tell us what you get.

I have a reason to ask about this and since you're getting result from the pendulum can you post it here?

Thanks.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 11, 2003, 15:03:23
Hi Squeek,

There is no need to put down the pendulum to write down your Q&A on paper. You should be holding the pendulum in the hand that you do not write with so there is no need to break the connection during your session.

You should have no problem getting a name using the method MAYATNIK suggests a few posts up. Please do post and let us know how you get on.


Hi TerryB,

They are some good questions you have there. Why not use the pendulum yourself to find out the answers? You don't need to have any special skills to use the pendulum. Try it and see how you get on.


With best regards,

Dave







Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: RoyHarper on July 11, 2003, 16:48:31
I consulted my pendulum, and here's what he had to say in regards to the aforementioned questions.  My answers follow the original answers.

It seems to me that I'm showing a different path, then what was otherwise described.

Q: Does MAYATNIK have a philosophy?
A: Strong NO | YES
Q: Does the pendulum consistantly disagree with MAYATNIK in what he says?
A: NO | YES
Q: Does the pendulum EVER disagree with MAYATNIK in what he says about the pendulum?
A: Strong NO | NO
Q:Does the Pendulum operate through the guides' *computer* as Mayatnik says?
A: Strong YES | NO
Q: Does a guide talk to the Pendulum via the their Computer?
A: Strong YES | STRONG NO
Q: And sometimes a 'monitor'(guide) does this also. Is this correct?
A: YES | YES
Q: So, is their 'computer' being used like a kind of 'switchboard'?
A: YES | NO
Q: Does MAYATNIK recieve his communications by telepathy?
A: YES | YES
Q: Is RoyHarper correct in this?
A: NO | YES
Q: Is RoyHarper using the pendulum correctly?
A: Strong NO | STRONG YES
Q: Should I post this list of Q&A in response to RoyHarper?
A: YES | YES



Do you know who is communicating with RH through the pendulum? YES | YES
Is it a Pleiadian? NO | NO
Is he communicating with the *computer* ? YES | NO
Has the computer told RH it has a name? NO | NO
Did the computer tell RH he was communicating with someone who had a name? YES | YES
Is he communicating with a Pleiadian via the computer? NO | NO
Is anyone or anything using the computer to communicate with RH? NO | NO
Has RH been communicating with anything but the computer since he began using the pendulum? NO | YES
Is RH misusing the pendulum? NO | NO
Is he making mistakes with the pendulum? YES | NO
Is he following the method outlined by MAYATNIK? NO | YES
Is RH following the method outlined by MAYATNIK as RH understands it? NO | YES
Is RH aware he is not using the pendulum correctly? NO | NO
Is he aware he is not using it as outlined by MAYATNIK? NO | NO
Does RH believe he is using the pendulum as outlined by MAYATNIK? YES | YES
Would RH have better results with the pendulum if he used it as outlined by MAYATNIK? YES | STRONG YES
Are there aspects of MAYATNIK’s guidelines that RH is not clear on? YES | NO
Should he re-read through MAYATNIK’s posts? YES | NO
Will re-reading through MAYATNIK’s posts give RH a better understanding of how the pendulum works? YES | NO
Is RH receiving false information from the pendulum? YES | NO
Is he receiving false information from the pendulum to show him he is using it incorrectly? YES | STRONG NO
Is the pendulum trying to teach RH how to use it correctly? YES | STRONG NO
If RH takes a different approach will he have more success with the pendulum? YES | YES
Is RH physically using the pendulum wrong in any way? NO | NO
Is RH asking wrong questions? NO | STRONG NO
Are any questions wrong questions to ask? NO | NO
Is RH taking the answers at face value? NO | NO
Should he be? NO | NO
Is RH’s failing in not approaching the questions from different angles when he feels the answer is wrong? YES | NO
If RH changes his approach to the questions will he get more accurate responses? YES | YES
So, if RH feels the answer to a question is wrong he should definitely take a different approach to the question? Is this correct? YES | NO
Is this what the pendulum is trying to show RH by giving him ‘false’ information? YES | NO MOVEMENT
Will this series of Q+A help RH and others to get a better understanding of how the pendulum works? YES | SEARCHING STRONG YES


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on July 11, 2003, 17:10:06
Daniel,

A good post there, and very well presented indeed.  I found the colour switching very easy on the eye to take in the details – good style !

I quote here from SilentWitness78 (Daniel), in his latest post:
quote:
Parmenion, is a great example of how quickly one can grow with the pendulum as I was telling Mayatnik last night, his questioning skils are superb and he has learned how to quickly jump from one string of questions to another to get to the answers he is looking for and confirming them as well. Take a look at some of his Q & A sessions they are fabulous learning tools.


I will more than second that --- in fact, I have some very good news…...

My guide, KAREK, informed me two days ago that – due to his excellent progress - she is now working actively with PARMENION.

--o--
As of from yesterday
PARMENION
has been selected by Karek to take over
for the time being

the work I have been doing

here on the
<AND THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOW – You’ll see!>
and
<QUESTION FOR MAYATNIK>
threads

--o--


PARMENION will be working directly with KAREK at all times, to respond to any posts or issues that I would otherwise have dealt with myself.  This will enable me to concentrate on other work at this time, including clear updating and Summarising of the Pendulum topic information that has already been presented by Karek in her channelings, plus extra features to be added by me for the benefit of all members.

KAREK will, of course, continue to work with me at the same time, on those other things I shall be doing  – so she will definitely be the busiest one of the three of us!

I know PARMENION is in good hands with KAREK, and the members can be assured that they will find that working-combination will benefit the thread – and Parmenion has already proved to be exceptional in  progress and skill, so I confidently leave it in his hands to take this  topic forward (and Karek will be doing the same as she did with me, so she’ll be checking all posts with Parmenion as they’re being read and replies prepared for posting).

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 12, 2003, 00:26:57
I got a name, but I'm really not sure it's 100% accurate....I'm not gonna post the name here because I'm still not certain.

I started with a simple "Is it alright If I ask you your name?" and to that I got the go ahead.  So I went on (Used my left hand this time)  It started out the exact same as the previous occasion, the same first 3 letters.  When I got the last 2, I didn't really think it worked as a whole....And it sounds like a joke on my part (the name that I got correlating to my nickname)

I'll tell ya's later.  Right now I got some birthday presents to play with.

Peace Out Ya'll!
~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 12, 2003, 02:24:20
Greetings Roy Harper,

Rather than just repeating my questions, may I ask why did you not question them even further? Question everything yes, including MAYATNIK and myself but don’t stop there. Question your questions and your answers. Dig as deep as you can to find out as much as you can.

I have put together all of the questions that you and I got different answers to. I will go through each one individually. Following on from Daniel’s easy to read post I will post the original questions in a red with the answer I received first and the one you received second. The questions I asked in this session will be in blue and any other comments in the usual black.



Q: Does MAYATNIK have a philosophy?
A: Strong NO | YES


Was RH using the pendulum correctly with the above question? YES
Does RH's definition of philosophy differ from mine?  NO
When RH asked the above question did he mean any philosophy?  YES
Whan I asked the question did I mean any philosophy?  NO
When I asked that question was I going on the assumption that RH meant a philosophy on the pendulum or the Pleiadians?  YES
Was I wrong to make that assumption? NO
Is this what RH meant at the time?  YES


So lets ask that question in a different way...

Is the information  posted here by MAYATNIK with regards to the pendulum and/or the Peiadians his philosophy?   NO
Has all the information posted here by MAYATNIK come directly from you Karek?  YES




Q: Does the pendulum consistantly disagree with MAYATNIK in what he says?
A: NO | YES


I repeat the question. Answer is NO

Did RH's pendulum tell him it consistantly disagrees with MAYATNIK in what he says?  YES
Does the pendulum disagree with any of the information given here by MAYATNIK?  NO
Has MAYATNIK given any false information here?  NO
Is all the information given by MAYATNIK here correct?  YES
Does the pendulum disagree with any of the information posted here by MAYATNIK?  NO
Does RH's pendulum disagree with MAYATNIK on something different than what is posted here?  YES
Will RoyHarper be able to find out what that might be with further questioning?  YES


**When I am asking questions I ask Karek directly as that is who I am working with. Instead of "does the pendulum..." I say "do you" or "do you Karek"...
I have posted the questions in that way so as to keep it as clear as possible for everyone.**




Q:Does the Pendulum operate through the guides' *computer* as Mayatnik says?
A: Strong YES | NO
Q: Does a guide talk to the Pendulum via  their Computer?
A: Strong YES | STRONG NO


I suspect the problem here is your interpritation of *computer* in this context. You may be taking it too literaly. It is much more than just a *computer*.



Q: So, is their 'computer' being used like a kind of 'switchboard'?
A: YES | NO


Again the problem seems to lie with the word *computer*. Lets ask a different question.

Does the communication with individuals via the pendulum happen exactly the way MAYATNIK describes it?  YES



Q: Is RoyHarper correct in this?
A: NO | YES


Were RH and I thinking totally different things when asking this?   YES


The original question is far too open to get a definitive answer by itself.



Q: Is RoyHarper using the pendulum correctly?
A: Strong NO | STRONG YES


Is RH using the pendulum correctly now? SEARCHING
Was RH using the pendulum correctly when asking that question?  YES




Is he communicating with the *computer* ? YES | NO

Here we see the word *computer* causing a problem again

When using the pendulum is RH communicating with the *computer* as I understand it?  YES
Does RH hold a different meaning for the word *computer* in this sense?  YES
Is this why we are getting conflicting answers?  YES
Do you think RH should use the pendulum to investigate this *computer*?   YES




Has RH been communicating with anything but the computer since he began using the pendulum? NO | YES

This could have been a conflicting answer because of *computer* or because of a lack of definition.

Has RH been communicating with anything but the *computer* via the pendulum since he started using the pendulum?  NO



Is he making mistakes with the pendulum? YES | NO

Is RH making mistakes with his pendulum now?  NO
Was he making mistakes with the pendulum when I asked you that question originally?  YES




Is he following the method outlined by MAYATNIK? NO | YES
Is RH following the method outlined by MAYATNIK as RH understands it? NO | YES


Is he following the method outlined by MAYATNIK?  YES
Is RH following the method outlined by MAYATNIK as RH understands it?  YES
Was he followin the method outlined by MAYATNIK at the time I asked these questions originally?  NO




Are there aspects of MAYATNIK’s guidelines that RH is not clear on? YES | NO

Were there aspects of MAYATNIK's guidelines that he was not clear on beforehand?  YES

It is important to note here that as you can see from the last few questions and answers (and indeed the ones following this) that you are clearly progressing with the pendulum. You are adopting the right attitude towards questioning and you will do very well with the pendulum indeed!



Should he re-read through MAYATNIK’s posts? YES | NO
Will re-reading through MAYATNIK’s posts give RH a better understanding of how the pendulum works? YES | NO


Should he re-read through MAYATNIK’s posts?  NO
Will re-reading through MAYATNIK’s posts give RH a better understanding of how the pendulum works?  NO
Is this because he now has a better understanding of how to use the pendulum correctly?  YES




Is RH receiving false information from the pendulum? YES | NO

In the beginning was RH recieving false information from the pendulum?  YES
Is RH receiving false information from the pendulum now? NO




Is he receiving false information from the pendulum to show him he is using it incorrectly? YES | STRONG NO

Is he receiving false information from the pendulum to show him he is using it incorrectly? NO
Is this because he is now using the pendulum correctly?  YES




Is the pendulum trying to teach RH how to use it correctly? YES | STRONG NO

Is the pendulum trying to teach RH how to use it correctly? NO
Was the pendulum trying to teach RH how to use it correctly before?  YES
Is this part of the learning process with the pendulum?  YES




Is RH’s failing in not approaching the questions from different angles when he feels the answer is wrong? YES | NO

Does RH now realise that he should approach the questions from different angles when he feels the answer is wrong?  YES (only very slight movement)
Will this post help RH and others to further realise they must  approach questions from different angles?  YES




So, if RH feels the answer to a question is wrong he should definitely take a different approach to the question? Is this correct? YES | NO

Lets rephrase this question...

If RH feels the answer is wrong he should take a different approach to get better results. Is this correct?  YES
We got different answers to the question before. Is this because "definitely should" could be taken to be an infringement of Free Will?  YES
If I had asked further questions at the time would I have realised this?  YES




Is this what the pendulum is trying to show RH by giving him ‘false’ information? YES | NO MOVEMENT

At the time was the pendulum giving RH false answers to show him that when he feels the answer is wrong he should take a different approach in order to get better results?  YES


That's all of the conflicting aswers covered. We got the same answer on all the rest but don't let that stop you from investigating them further if you wish. With practise you will gain an affinity with the pendulum and it is quite obvious you are allready progressing very well with it.

With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 12, 2003, 23:45:54
Timeless what is the point of your post? You say :

"I am not a fan of the pedulum."  

The Pendulum does not ask for fans. It is not some baseball player who needs adoration to feel good about itself.

"I would recommend asking the level of consciousness the 'one' guiding the pedulum has before trusting the information coming through"

Ask who? You? Why not simply trust the information and then judge for yourself? You are saying not to trust the pendulum ... but to trust this person/thing you are asking to state the consciousness of the "one" guiding this pendulum? Who is this "one"? So you are saying trust one thing but not the other? Why? I am confused? You give no reason for this, you are just posting negative statements for the benefit of whom? Yourself? Because you have given up and failed with the pendulum you are asking others to as well? I do not understand your logic here.


"Just go through levels asking Yes or No. I would also recommend trying to ask the 'one' guiding the pedulum if they are a servant of God (or the name you use to describe the divine source)."

O.K. Now you have confused me even more. So your saying that this "one" would lie to you about this and that, giving you false information but then if you ask it if it's a servant of god or it's level of consciousness it will tell you the truth? Which is it?

"I did pendulum work in my ancient past. I found I would get good information mixed with inaccurate information."

That's nice. I did pendulum work in the past as well and got mixed information. What is your point? Have you even read any of the posts in this thread or did you simply come in here to show your superiority to others? It is obvious you would have gotten false information with such a clouded mind, you obviously had no faith in yourself to trust in God and trust that he would not lead you in the wrong direction. The pendulum is not a magic wand you can pick up and automatically give you whatever it is you wish. You must work with it. Practice with it. Learn from it. There is no way for this "one" or demonic being you are imagining to lead you astray because it is YOU who has chosen to search for truth and it is YOU who is bringing these answers forward. No one else. Ask and ye shall receive. If your mind is closed and you are judgemental those are the types of responses you will receive which you obviously did. There is no devil, there are no demons out to get you so whatever world you are lucid dreaming about is simply the reality YOU have chosen to experience.

"I find I get more accurate, consistently reliable information when I ask questions in lucid dream state. This is just me though."

Again, that's nice. If that's what works for you, keep at it. That is not what this thread is about so if you would like to enlighten others on how they can reach this level of awareness I suggest starting your own thread on how to do whatever it is you are doing instead of coming into another thread and trying to influence others in a negative direction.

"Maybe I am just not good with the pendulum."

Hey! There's an idea!

"Also, it is a really painstaking way to get info."

It is? How so? I guess having answers to any question that will help you grow and move forward right at your fingertips is painful to you? Man, for someone so advanced as you, I wouldn't have thought dangling a pendulum the weight of a pencil in front of you would be such hard work.

 "I find higher astral entities and advanced alien consciousness's tend to use more efficient means of communication."

Once again. That is nice Timeless. Good boy. *pats your head* Now again, if you want to tell us all how great you are and how you contact these enlightened beings that answer all of your questions I sure would love to know! Again, how about some information to back up all these statements? This thread is filled with bundles of information on how the pendulum can be a great tool. Your post is filled with arrogance and egotism.

"I see the pendulum as a side road on the spiritual path. I decided not to stay on it too long but instead seek a better means of communication."

Really? How so? You sure seem to "see" a lot but say nothing as to why you see these things? I can see that you are far more behind on the "spiritual path" than most of these young minds on here trying to better themselves and unlike you I have posted my reasons as to why I feel this way.

"Just my opinion."

Yes, yes it is.  

"Hope I did not anger anyone."

You sure seem to have a high opinion of yourself. I prey to God that no one here has been angered by your silly post.
I have not been angered but disturbed as to why someone would want to come in and post his ridiculous thoughts on a subject he has no idea about. You say yourself you have barely used the pendulum and it is obvious that you have not read through the many wonderful words on this thread so why did you choose to write? I would not go into a forum on Russian politics when I would obviously have no idea what I was talking about. Even if I could speak a little bit of Russian and spent some time in Moscow I would be intellegent enough to know that those who have far more experience are way more qualified to post their opinions on a subject especially if they are negative and trying to influence people. It would be different if you were to have something positive to say, some kind words of encouragement or something helpful but you come on here to simply state what? Nothing. Empty negative words that may hinder someones spiritual developement. Why?

Anyhow, I just feel a lot of work has gone into this thread and it disturbs me to see people with nothing better to do but put others down. Just my 3 cents.

-All my love
-Daniel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 13, 2003, 01:23:32
I worked with the pendulum a fair bit. You are free to do as you wish. As I am free to have an opinion. I found there where much better ways to aquire information. Why get stuck on something when there are better ways available? Now why did I know you would vent? Spirituality and anger do not mix well. We cannot get very far as long as negative emotion is easily stirred within us. Conquer self and all falls into place. To each his own though. Good luck on the path you have chosen.

Again. This thread is not about you. It is about the pendulum and the search for truth. Did you even read my reply? What is the point of this? Again, you are wasting peoples time with negativity. Ok, so you feel there are better ways to aquire information. You can say that about almost anything. The point is what on earth are you doing here? You make selfish claims and do nothing to back them up or help others in anyway. You simply claim YOU know better ways. Oooooh, ok young Jedi how about showing us? Helping us understand? You say anger and spirituality do not mix. How do you know? Do black and white not mix? Do up and down not mix? How can you have one without the other? You obviously have no idea the true meaning of spirituality. For the record , I laughed out loud almost falling over in my chair when I heard you say that you have "angered" me. You do not know me. It seems you do not even know yourself. I told you once I'll tell you again. You think very highly of your SELF. You seem to be the one who is now on the defensive. I am simply stating my feelings on your post, I appologize if they seem like anger to you, but hey they say life is a mirror, what you see is a reflection of what is inside of yourself [}:)][^]

Your words come accross with a hint of holier than thou in them. You have nothing positive to say, you constantly reference yourSELF and speak arrogantly with sarcastic words like 'the path you have chosen'. What is that supposed to mean? Are you hinting I am on some path of evil? Ha ha ha.

I live my life at the service of others, I wish nothing more than to help and to give back what I can to this wonderful world that has blessed me with so much. I have no use for things like anger and empty words. Your posts are filled with both. Please, if you have nothing of importance to say do not come on here trying to steal the hopes and passions of others because you feel you are lacking something. If you wish to be of service, start your own thread on how to reach aliens in your sleep or whatever it is you speak of, because otherwise you are being nothing but a cancer feeding off the fears of others. If you are so holy than you should have no need to come on here and trample on peoples hopes and dreams.

 Now that we have cleaned the kitchen floor, hopefully we can move forward and not have anymore ignorant children come trampling in with muddy shoes. Please, if you have nothing positive or constructive to ad, keep it to yourself. These posts are about growing and learning new things. They are not here for your own personal ego boosting. If you need a soap box to vent your fears and worries please find another forum.

And for the record Mr. Timeless, a) yes there are better ways to receive answers. Telepathy is one of them and constant work with the pendulum has been a proven way to increase your psychic abilities and can eventually lead to telepathic communication and b) I KNOW you have not read through this thread at all because if you had you would have known right from the begining that the Pendulum works only for God. It is stated in the very first post which explains the Kantra that dedicates the Pendulum to work ONLY for God. I suggest you go back to the begining and read this entire thread before coming on here and giving people suggestions and advice. [:I]




- All my love
- Daniel



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 13, 2003, 02:03:00
I disagree with the orignal post. I do not believe God only guides the pendulum. Sorry.

Again, you state something and give no reasons why.

Curious how you made the assumption I thought you were evil.

Notice the Ha ha ha <--- It's sad when people use whatever they can get to try and put the other down when they have no relevant argument or anything of substance to say.

Very interesting. Silentwitness this was not a personal attack. And I have no intention of getting personal with you.

Personal attack? Huh? Again why are you stating something out of the blue with no reasoning behind it? Attack?

When we are confident we do not take other people's opinions as a personal attack nor do we worry about other people's opinions.

Again, in your own subtle arrogant way you are trying to state your superiority. when we are confident So you are saying that I am not confident and you are. You must be, because 10 seconds ago you said I felt I was being attacked by your opinions (did I not so obviously state the exact oposite in my post? were we reading the same things or do you just choose to say whatever fits your argument at the time?) ... and now your saying that someone who feels attacked by opinions is not confident. Again, you do not know me. So please refrain from telling me how superior you are to me and how much confidence I lack. Wow. Your arrogance has left me speachless.

To each his own. You have your way. I have mine.

As long as your way is far far away from this thread I will be a happy man [:D] (Unless of course you change your mind and start having some postive things to say. I can take constructive critism but when you come on here and simply state negative things for the sake of stating them and then have absolutely nothing at all to back up your words with it makes you look foolish.)


- Daniel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 13, 2003, 02:25:27
So why did you come here then? Are you saying that you are so holy that the world should simply take whatever you say as truth? So basically what you came here to say was don't listen to any of these 200+ posts (which you have probably only read 2 of by the looks of it) but instead listen to ME! I will not give you any reasons why, I will not explain myself (why should I, I am ME! timeless!) I will not give you any helpful words of advice, I will not answer any questions asked of me (you have avoided all my questions) but none the less! These are my words! Heed them!

Thanks but no thanks.

And for the record this is not an argument. This is a discussion. You keep trying to turn this around as to make yourself look holy. Why not have a rational discussion? Why do you try to dismiss me as if I am some puppy who needs not be listened to? Are you really that arrogant? Can you not have a discussion with me and state your opinions with clear precise reasoning? Maybe even an answer or two when your opinions are questioned or is it that you just don't have any? It looks like to me you have entered a discussion on Russian Politics and have no way to get out of it but to try and make the other person look bad. Is that what you call "spiritual"? You have answered none of my questions all you have done is continue to be negative. Good luck with that.

- Daniel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 13, 2003, 02:33:50
Not to get off topic or anything, I'm just wondering if anyone else noticed this.

A few minutes ago, this topic just became the biggest ever on these forums, surpassing "KI Ball pictures", which has 222 posts.

What's even MORE incredible, this topic started less than a month ago!!!  This is unmatchable.

Thanks again to Mayatnik for making this topic.  :D

~Squeek

Ps - this is not the record of most read topic.  the other one is, with over 14,250 reads.  I'm proud to be the FIRST person to post on that!! (besides the founder)


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on July 13, 2003, 02:48:20
Wow, that's amazing. Thanks again to Mayatnik (Edward) for all the hard work he has put in! Great stuff! Anyone who hasn't gotten a chance to read through this thread I would suggest going back and reading all of the wonderful information contained in these pages. It's well worth it I promise!


- All my love
- Daniel


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on July 13, 2003, 03:50:41
Silentwitness,
I agree with you. I suggest that readers spend some time and carefully read the thread in it's entirety.
 
timeless,
 you say....I did pendulum work in my ancient past. I found I would get good information mixed with inaccurate information. I find I get more accurate, consistently reliable information when I ask questions in lucid dream state or meditation.

 ancient past ??  Just how ancient is that ??? How about trying in the present. Maybe it WAS the questions you were asking that was the problem or maybe you WERE using it incorrectly. Sometimes the answers the pendulum gives is because you need to think. If you read the entire thread, it clearly tells the correct way to use the pendulum.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: James S on July 13, 2003, 05:00:54
Daniel,

I don't understand why you seem to be so opposed to what Timeless has said. She simply came in to this topic stating an opinion (note the attention I draw to that word). I honestly cannot see these opinions as being negative or a criticism against this thread. You have taken an openly hostile and sarcastic approach towards Timeless from the very outset of your response to her first post on this thread. For what purpose? If you wish to carry on a positive discussion, then please stop tearing down others who might have a different view to yours. Such words show evidence a closed mind.

I have spent many hours reading all that has been said on this thread, the arguments for and against the use of the pendulum. I have sought my own experience here, so as to be able to form a more objective view of it. I see nothing wrong with the use of the pendulum. I do however see it simply as a tool. For some here it has the potential to become a very valuable tool. For others it might not be of value.

I come from an engineering background. I often see others using a tool to complete a job that I would not choose to use myself. As long as the end result is the same, and is good, what does it matter?

Please consider that Timeless may very well have used the pendulum in the past, and used it properly, but might not have found it as suited to her as another method. If all the people here reading this thread are only ever told that the pendulum is a great means of spiritual communication and growth and there are no opposing views, then some might get stuck with using a practice that is not best suited for them and they end up getting held back.

Mayatnik has done this forum a great service in his presentation of this information. I for one have learned much from it and wish to pass on my thanks to Mayatnik for the time he has freely given in this thread, especially with regard to his sight disability. A worthy effort!

I don't believe however it should be treated as the be all and end all of spiritual communication, and I don't see it as being a good thing to disimiss others that might have different ideas about it. There is nothing "holier than thou" about such a comment. Its just a another view on the subject.

James.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Terry B on July 13, 2003, 06:37:38
Parmenion,

I might, as soon as I get more comfortable with it.[:)]. It take some time for me to get comfortable with idea such as this.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 13, 2003, 13:30:23
Greetings everyone,

First of all, I have to say that I fully agree with James S with respect to how this discussion between Timeless and Daniel (SilentWitness78) has transpired. James, you write with respect and objectivity and your post is a fine example of how open and healthy a debate should be. You have excellent moderating skills.


Dear Daniel,

I appreciate the effort you put forth into this thread and I can see how you got frustrated here, with Timeless deliberately avoiding to answer your questions. However, your approach was wrong. You were disrespectful and allowed yourself to be drawn into a defensive position. Timeless is fully entitled to her opinion. She has the right to say what she likes just as you have the right to disagree.

Your intentions are commendable though and Karek has asked me to thank you personally. I am told you got very few hours sleep as a result of trying to defend the members’ interests and that you were on the steps of the library this morning before it opened to get a copy of “The Keys to the Temple” so you can study Sacred Geomancy. (This book is one of the many recommended by MAYATNIK and posted by Frank in the Astral Library, along with MAYATNIK’s reviews.)


Permit me now to address the post that started all this commotion in the first place.
Originally posted by Timeless:

“Dear All,

I am never up in these forums but a post in another forum caught my attention.

I am not a fan of the pedulum.  I would recommend asking the level of consciousness the 'one' guiding the pedulum has before trusting the information coming through. Just go through levels asking Yes or No.

I did pendulum work in my ancient past. I found I would get good information mixed with inaccurate information. I find I get more accurate, consistently reliable information when I ask questions in lucid dream state or meditation. This is just me though. Maybe I am just not good with the pendulum. Also, it is a really painstaking way to get info. I find higher astral entities and advanced alien consciousness's tend to use more efficient means of communication.  I see the pendulum as a side road on the spiritual path. I decided not to stay on it too long but instead sought better means of communication. Just my opinion. Hope I did not anger anyone.

Respectfully,
timeless  “



Dear Timeless,

You say you are not a fan of the pendulum. You have not read all of the information and guidelines posted on this thread about the correct use of the pendulum. Might I ask then as to why you feel you are qualified to make recommendations as to it’s use? You are of course entitled to make any comments you wish but how do you know what has already been explained without first reading the thread?

I also “did pendulum work” in the past. I also found “I would get good information mixed with inaccurate information”. So like you, I put down the pendulum to pursue other avenues. Unlike your good self however, I was willing to entertain the possibility that I had not been using the pendulum correctly and as such was getting somewhat unreliable information. When MAYATNIK started this thread I was open to the possibility that I may have been wrong in my methods and that this person might know more about the pendulum than I did. With an open mind and positive approach I took up the pendulum again and used it in the way suggested by MAYATNIK. I ignored what I had previously “known” to be the way the pendulum works in order to be open to learn.

To quote from your original post, “Maybe I am just not good with the pendulum”. I suggest to you that it may be more a case of not knowing how to use the pendulum correctly. Having admitted this though, you then proceed to make further allegation towards the pendulum.

“Also, it is a really painstaking way to get information.”
 
I respectfully disagree. The above statement is simply untrue. When you use the pendulum correctly you build up a rapport with it. The questions will begin to flow freely and easily and it becomes just as having a conversation with an old friend.

“I find higher astral entities and advanced alien consciousness's tend to use more efficient means of communication. I see the pendulum as a side road on the spiritual path. I decided not to stay on it too long but instead sought better means of communication. ”

Yes, you would do. I too did not realize just how effective the pendulum is before I learned of it’s proper use. If you can put your skepticism to one side and approach the pendulum in an open and positive way, you too will realize just how powerfull it really is. Of course, you would have to read MAYATNIK’s posts first to learn how to properly use the pendulum.

The main problem we seem to be having on this thread is people joining in without first reading all of the information contained herein. This is happening all too often which is why I have temporarily taken over from MAYATNIK on the two threads pertinent to the pendulum. In so doing, MAYATNIK has available to him more time to compile a summary of all the information posted here. This will take some time to do and in the meantime I ask that before anyone contributes to the thread with their comments and complaints that they at least take the time to read the thread first.

My biggest concern here Timeless is not what you say in your posts but rather what you do not say. You have made many allegations towards the pendulum. And not how you ‘think’ it is not extremely valuable for spiritual growth but how you ‘know’. Daniel has asked you time and again to explain how you have come to these assumptions. Instead of explaining why you ‘know’ these things you have completely avoided the questions. Perhaps this is due to the manner in which Daniel responded to you. If so I can fully understand. His tone was indeed defensive but his intentions were good. Also, I suggest you knew full well that your post would inspire defensiveness and counter-attacking in people.

I respectfully ask that you please explain how you have come to form your opinions on the pendulum. You have said that they come from personal experience so you should be able to give us a first hand account. I have very good reason to ask this of you.What you have wittingly implied in your posts is that the pendulum is not beneficial to a person’s growth, spiritually or otherwise. You have made claims to know such things without giving evidence to back it up, implying that you know these things and that’s all there is to it.When one takes into consideration that you have recently obtained the status of moderator, one can begin to imagine the negative influence your posts are having on the open minded people who read this thread.

Neither myself nor MAYATNIK are telling anyone what they should do. On the other hand you are telling people what not to do. Not by your words but by your omissions. There are many people who read this thread but do not post here. By your implications and the fact that you are a moderator, you are creating doubt in the minds of people who wish to learn. I have been given permission by Branden, one such member, to post excerpts from his messenger conversation with MAYATNIK. This is to pose as an example of one (of many) members who are eager to learn but have been negatively influenced by Timeless’ posts.

With my thanks to you Branden:
 
Branden says:
you should have told me which pages to just skip over in that thread, even though i fully believed or thought i did in the way the pendulum worked, some of these posts have made me aware of a level of doubt


MAYATNIK says:
This is a Free Will World.........where people can say what they like........ so you will encounter such people, for you to 'know' and choose as a result.  There will always be 'doubters'....but usually you find the doubters haven't even read the thread, as you'll find most often is the case.

MAYATNIK says:
The very latest post (on page 15) from Timeless, is a prime example........he wouldn't be making his statement if he'd bothered to read the first page properly.


Branden says:
i still believe that it works, and there's no real reason for me to believe that it works in a way other than you've mentioned... i'm just a bit reluctant to pick it up now, because it might be affected be these new doubts


MAYATNIK says:
The doubts are in someone else's mind.... the whole point of the Pendulum is to ask, "Is this true what this person is saying?".....and you'll be given the answer.

 
Branden says:
i mean, now that it's taking my questions mentally, what's to guarantee that i won't have a thought like: "This is probably just my subconscious", or "This isn't real" from popping into my mind and portraying negativity?


MAYATNIK says:
You have made it clear that 1 single person can affect your mind........and that also can affect the mind of other members......that's why people should not make comments when they don't know what the subject is about......and *timeless* ....and *13* didn't know what it was all about......so they caused confusion.  The answer, as always, is to ask the Pendulum.....that's why I started the thread.


MAYATNIK says:
I'd like to pass on your constructive comments to Parmenion, if I may?


Branden says:
you can do whatever you want with anything i say

Branden says:
if there's something that i'm not comfortable with you sharing i'll say so beforehand


MAYATNIK says:
You can be anonymous or he can quote your *Branden* name.....it is entirely up to you.


Branden says:
i'm fine with my name being used, it's also what i registered with on the forums, so once i start posting the quotes might seem more in context

Branden says:
That's one of the reasons i'm reluctant to post my results or questions yet... i don't want to post something only to find out that it's been answered, a fight has broke out about it and since been solved, and then i bring it all up again

Branden says:
also i'm afraid i'll start exagerating my results so my posts seem more interesting... i'm really going to have to watch that


MAYATNIK says:
I understand what you're saying.....but what is being discussed now on the threads is the best way to ask questions...so members are asked to send in their Q/A sessions so that others can share them........ therefore everything you can send in will be of great value......it's how you ask the questions that will help others, not just what the questions are about.....so please feel free to send in.



So you see Timeless this is why it is important for you to lend example to your opinion. If you say how you came to your conclusions with regard to the pendulum we can discuss them in an open and respectfull manner.Furthermore I ask you to please remember the importance of reading the thread first so as you have all the information. What you choose to do with it then is of course up to you.

With best regards,

Dave




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Mirador on July 13, 2003, 18:54:50
Dear AstralPulsars,

Just 'cause this thread has more than five thousand hits don't mean we are are ANY CLOSER TO KNOWING THE TRUTH. We are just being distracted by MAYATNIK's mumbo-jumbo.  Beware!!!!

Mirador


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Bad Moon Rising on July 13, 2003, 20:00:07
Mirador,
 Have you read this entire thread ???


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: clandestino on July 14, 2003, 05:58:25
Parmenion said :
quote:
The main problem we seem to be having on this thread is people joining in without first reading all of the information contained herein.


The thread is now too long to read in its entirety ! Perhaps it should be locked and people can continue discussions on Mayatnik's summary post....I'm sure I read elsewhere that Mayatnik was going to summarise ???




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on July 14, 2003, 09:54:49
Mirador,

quote:
Originally posted by Mirador

Dear AstralPulsars,

Just 'cause this thread has more than five thousand hits don't mean we are are ANY CLOSER TO KNOWING THE TRUTH. We are just being distracted by MAYATNIK's mumbo-jumbo.  Beware!!!!
Mirador



On what basis do you claim this is "mumbo jumbo".

This is a chanelling method which anyone can try for themselves of their own freewill and make up their own mind.

I for one am not aware of a more simple or effective method of chanelling information from the higher realms, a method which is within the capability of everyone, not just Spiritually advanced people, or those that practice mysticism or have special abilities.

Mankind needs methods such as these for contacting the higher spheres reliably, and if you or anyone else knows of any better methods then please lets here them.

In the meantime, as administrator, I am asking you to be much more diligent with the tone of your posts, and I do not just mean this one.

With best regards,

Adrian.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Mirador on July 14, 2003, 12:25:38
Adrian,

According to the The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition 2000, the term 'mumbo jumbo' includes the following definitions: 2. Language or ritualistic activity intended to confuse. 3. A complicated or obscure ritual. 4. An object believed to have supernatural powers; a fetish. English is not my native language, maybe I could have found a more accurate term.

I sincerely believe MAYATNIK's pendulum is a ritualistic activity and his explanations are obscure and confusing. That the use of the so called pendulum is a complicated ritual, and it's obvious that supernatural powers are attributed to the pendulum.

I am very concerned about any unhealthy effects this information can have on young and impressionable minds.

I believe I'm being very diligent in the way I express myself.

Adrian, If you believe my opinions have no place in this forum, then you should suggest I leave, and If you and the owner believe my participation is out of order, then I will sign out permanently from this forum.

Mirador


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 14, 2003, 12:59:29
Ok here's what I think about this all...

First - Adrian was simply saying to you, Mirador, to look before you leap (in a sense).  IE, read before you opinionate.

Second - True, there is a small threat on that occasion of small children.  But that's why this is a forum.  Anything they want to ask about it they CAN, and they DID!

Third - I do think that we should have one post to summarize it all.  Please don't nobody make a new topic.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Rob on July 14, 2003, 15:15:00
"Mankind needs methods such as these for contacting the higher spheres reliably, and if you or anyone else knows of any better methods then please lets here them. "

Anything that does not involve the human being as an operator. EVP contacts the dead, and seems to be safe, as it relies upon random effects on a near quantum level (although the human might be involved, it does not appear to be quite the same, and it is on a much smaller level than any direct channeling eg pendulum or even more coarse, full body possession). Otherwise, channeling through a human is IMO universally dangerous and should not be attempted, ever. If a higher being wants to contact you, no force in the known universe will be able to stop them. If a higher being doesnt want to be contacted by you, no force in the known universe will be able to make them appear.
Lets say I only want to channel an entity called "Gonzo" - I call on gonzo, he comes through me, I say "hey gonzo me old mukker, that you?" "yes of course, my son". How do I know if this is a demon who has temporerily decided to call themselves "Gonzo" for the day, or a true entity of the light? And if the latter, why does Gonzo *allways* feel the need to channel through me, instead of simply materialising infront of me? As someone very wise once said - what does God need with a spaceship?
Some out there will have been around when RB was helping Romero to fight off an arch-demon, a Qlipotic King of terrifying power. It latched to her initially by channelling through new agers, pretending to be her deceased father......whole schools of shamans were unable to shift it. I dont even know if Romero was fully successful.
Just because an answer comes through, does not mean its not mumbo-jumbo, and you have no assurance that it really did come from a higher power. If I was a neg, and I wanted to take a person over or divert them from truth, I'd feed them truth to begin with, and then slowly slowly start feeding in the BS, so they didn't notice. 5 years down the road, they'll believe negs dont exist, that you dont have to fight evil, that everything is totally under control from above and you might as well just lie down and let the golden age in. There are no conspiracies, dont think about ideas like that or your energies will create one (I actually read that on spiritweb once!)......so just dont think about it....Bah!!!! You *are* the light!!!!! Take control (of) yourself!!!! To nab the quote off keelynet.com "To make your prayers come true, you have to get off your knees".
And I'd better stop there else I'll start really offending people.
love light y'all....
Rob
ps sorry if I have actually offended anyone with this little rant, I do have reasonably strong feelings on this general issue - I even used to believe some of the new age philosophies myself....


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on July 14, 2003, 15:53:25
Greetings Inguma,

Thank you very much for your excellent response.

First of all I want to make it clear to this topic that everyone has a right to an opinion and should not hesitate to state it whether it happens to be what people want to hear or not. If anyone is upset by an opinion or information, that is there problem, not the person conveying their position or information. Having said that, everyone without any exceptions must behave in a totally respectful manner at all times and phrase posts accordingly. Profanity or aggressive or overtly provocative posts will not be tolerated and will be instantly and effectively dealt with by any of the moderators or myself.

That having been said, I believe Inguma has an excellent point here. The reason we have seen such a rapid increase in Astral projection including phasing is because mediumship/channeling are far from perfect and in many cases outright dangerous. It is very often not possible to positively identify the being chanelling the information, or their motives. Human channels also interfere wih the communication by infusing their own ego and/or psyche in the process. Astral projection enables the projector to meet guides face to face on the very same level, and then there is never any doubt. Astral projection (as opposed to OBE) and in particular phasing is the way of the future at the Astral level. For higher levels or communicating with the higher self, a level of spiritual development and elemental equilibrium as well as control over the ego is required, in which cases there should be no problem. The same applies to evocation.

As for the pendulum method, I do believe it works at a lower level at least. Whether it works at a higher level I am open minded about. By lower level I mean the Astral level. In any case, the first thing anyone should do is to establish beyond any doubt who or what you are communicating with. Without that information any form of channeling is dangerous and inadvisable, it is like walking up to the first person you meet in the street, asking them complex questions, and accepting their answers as totally accurate. You would not do it.

With best regards,

Adrian.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on July 14, 2003, 16:20:40
Before I post I want to make sure I get the rules straight.  You can only talk about the dangers of channeling if you dont mention the pendulum specifically?  Just make it theory and not state any bad experiences you have had?

Im thankful people are putting the truth out there instead of blindly thanking God for the information he's giving us through this sacred means.  Of course he's chanelling through you which must mean he's defensive too and will probably want to punish those that question the tool just like the ones here getting ticked someone gave a simple experience.

This topic is way too long.  



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Rob on July 14, 2003, 16:27:20
Pendulum is a tool that can be used for divination and channeling. I'm not entirely sure I understand the rest of your post?!! Maybe its cos I'm blonde lol.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on July 14, 2003, 16:33:02
Im refering to the people who were defensive.  I should have made it clear I haven't read this thread in a while and was responding to how people who talk about their bad experiences with the tool are treated by SOME.  not you though or anything.  



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 14, 2003, 17:55:50
quote:
By Goingslow :

This topic is way too long.

Are you kidding?  It should be longer!  Not that I want to egg on the biggest topic ever, but that it's so intruiging that it must continue!

You know it's good when it's made into a sticky.  That's a tell-tale sign right there.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: James S on July 14, 2003, 22:10:57
Ok, so much for my resolve to keep out of this discussion now.

Just a bit of personal experience to support a couple of points:
quote:
Posted by Inguma

If a higher being wants to contact you, no force in the known universe will be able to stop them.

Yup!!
After many years of me ignoring subtle hints my guide ended up standing right before me, in person as it were, while I was meditating in my spare room.

quote:
posted by Adrian

In any case, the first thing anyone should do is to establish beyond any doubt who or what you are communicating with.

And a big YUP to this too!

My first session with the pendulum ended up with my intuition raising the alarm and a very uneasy feeling coming over me. I turned to my guide, who I known for a while and trust, offered the pendulum up to her for guidance, and got rather firm confirmation that the first spirit I was dealing with was not to be trusted.

The pendulum is a tool, and can be a very usefull one IF it is used with care. A knife is a very useful tool when used correctly and carefully, but I don't think I need to draw any pictures of what can happen when it isn't.

James.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Willoc on July 15, 2003, 22:29:34
I just tried it using the full procedures (I made a pendulum out of a chest knob and a piece of string).  The pendulum moves the opposite way of yours as in "yes" is back and forth while "no" is left to right.  After figuring that out, I tried to ask it simple questions like "is there a seed in front of me?" while having the seed be there and not there and it would be accurate.  Then I needed a question I ddin't know the answer to, so I would flip a coin behind me and ask "Is the coin behind me heads up?".  Out of 5 times I tried it, 4 of them it was correct.  The incorrect one was the third one and I noticed that I hadn't given it enough time (My arm was shaky from giddyness too =)).  But thanks for the method, I'll keep trying it and practicing my skill at a steady hand and patience which are probably some of the most important things to having a correct read-out.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: cainam_nazier on July 16, 2003, 00:52:18
Greetings,

Sunday (I think), I was sitting in front of my computer being happy little me.  I reached back to the mini-fridge to grab a soda, (I'm really lazy), when the stack of DVD's that normally sits on top of my computer fell with a couple of them hitting me.  Before today I was saying that they were thrown at me.  This is because of the very distinct feeling of some thing else being there.  Any how, this was followed several other sounds of movement from different parts of my room.  Oddly I am getting used to this kind of stuff.  The noises don't bother me but I don't like having things thrown at me.

Anyhow, I was talking to Parmenion about this yesterday and had the idea that these kinds of things were starting to happenmore because of my resently picking up the use of the pendulum.  Previously I really hadn't thought about asking the pendulum about the occurance.  The following is the line of questioning I used.
Blue is the quesion, red is the answer, Green are additional comments.

1. May I ask you some questions?  Yes
2. Did someone other than me knock over the stack of DVD's on top of mycomputer yesterday?  Yes
3. Was it on purpose?  No.  It circled counter clockwise few a bit before giving me the no answer.  The first time I asked the question when I was talking to Parmenion I mistaked the first movement as a yes.
4. Was it to get my attention?  No.  I asked this because if it said yes then it was on purpose.  Checking previous question with a different one.

I felt the need to then clarify the yes and no answers before proceeding.

5.  Has this "thing" been in my room for a while?  No.
6.  Is this "thing" still here? No responce.  This made me think.
7.  Did a "person" knock over my DVD's? Yes.   Interesting.
8.  Is this "person" still here (in my room)? Yes.  Thinking again.
9.  Is this "person" alive?  Yes.
10. Is this person alive in the sence that I normally use? No.

I countinued my questioning later.  I again asked if it was okay to question, and if it recalled the conversation from earlier.

11. Are things like this happening because of my work with the pendulum?  No.
12. Are they happening more because of my work with the pendulum?  No.
13. Are they happening more because of the hypnotherapy sessions?  No, circel clockwise and the Yes.
14. Are they happening more because I want them to?  Yes.  Hmm.  I don't think I want this to happen more.
15. Is this a sub-consious desire?  Yes.
16. Should I work on correcting it?  No.
17. Should I share this on the Astral Pulse?  Yes.

While I was writting this it struck me to ask specifically if I knocked over the DVD's on Sunday.  I got a no answer.

I don't think that I am fully done with this line of questioning but I will return to it later when I can fully think out some of the questions I want to ask. Mostly how to ask them.


My only question is with numbers 3 and 13.  With number 3 the counter clockwise circling, as I assumed searching was clockwise.  With number 13 the definate NO and the then SEARCHING clockwise circle followed by a definate YES.  I asked the question twice and it did the same thing both times.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 17, 2003, 02:45:00
Greetings!

It is great to see more people experiencing positive results with the pendulum! Everyone is different of course and as such, will have different experiences. The key to uncovering the truth of any matter using the pendulum is not to test the intelligence of the pendulum but  to check use the answers to your questions to build a up a clear picture. Cover all the points and investigate as much as you possibly can. Do not make the mistake of taking the first answer as correct. It may well be but the more you investigate the deeper the understanding you will have. To ask just one or two questions is like seeing the picture of a house in the realtor’s shop window. You may know what the house is but how much do you really know about it? Deeper investigation and continued questioning will lead you to be given the guided tour. Upstairs, downstairs, over, under, inside and out. You can find out as much as you want to learn on your guided tour. Just ask the guide.

I am only too happy to explain why those two questions of yours may be causing some confusion Cainam. Before I do so I would like to share a few observations of mine on your recent questions/answers session. It seems that you may be too anxious. Sometimes we can miss the obvious if we are looking too hard for something more.

In question 3 of your session the pendulum circled counter-clockwise.  There are several meanings to anti-clockwise...not just <delete>. What happened in this case was that the pendulum searched BACK to check what actually occurred…and made an evaluation on the ‘data’ with all known facts as a result. This is not something to bother much with for now. Just be aware if it happens so you can then benefit from asking questions about that movement.

With question 13 you got NO, circle clockwise, and then YES. What happened here was more than just an answer but almost a sentence, if understood correctly. NO , SEARCHING (for data to do with hypnotherapy particularly related to you), then YES. Meaning NO (not normally the case) …but <search>….YES (in this particular case)


You may benefit here by asking questions related to your hypnotherapy sessions. You might also wish to investigate your empathy. What seems to be needed more so than anything else is really just getting used to the pendulum. This is easily done with practice and investigating as deeply as you can to get the clearest picture possible. I have found of tremendous aid to improving my questioning skills, the following link as given to me by MAYATNIK on request to help me to compose a response to a question posed to me. This link and others of similar interest are now posted in the “NEW? Planet Approaching” thread in the  OBE Discussions forum.

http://home.tiscali.nl/~gibbon/  

Members may also find the Q&A’s posted in the “Question for MAYATNIK” thread to be of assistance in seeing how to build up a clear picture through not simply accepting the answer but probing further all the time.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5318&whichpage=4



With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 17, 2003, 05:02:39
The more I read, the more astounded I become...

I went to that website Parm, and just the first thing I noticed in all of the links was "Atlantis and Lemuria"...

What's funny about this is I JUST stopped playing this game today called "Golden Sun : The Lost Age".  Anybody who play(s)(ed) it, GUESS where I am?!  I'm in Lemuria!  :O  Wanna know what's even FUNNIER?!  The game goes along Squarely with this website!!!

 
quote:
From the site...
simply, is that toward the end of the Lemurian civilization, the end of the Atlantean civilization was occurring, as well. They coexisted. The mystics of Lemuria knew that the end was coming. Knowing this, they also knew it was essential to begin preserving a lot of the wisdom and knowledge of Lemuria. They knew it was important that mankind eventually understand its star heritage. So the Lemurians began gathering all of this information and looking for a place to store it safely. The Andes of Peru were part of the Lemurian civilization, and the Lemurians knew that one very good place to secret those records would be in certain areas of the Andes, so they began seeking out natural caverns and power spots in which they could store some of the sacred knowledge.


Dude, this JUST happened.  The Lemurian King in the game was discussing how the world is bringing about its own downfall... And that Lemuria is dying as well.  If he goes to the Andes, I'm just gonna faint.

Now I'm beginning to beleive the makers of this game really know their metaphysics...The main characters use Psi all the time.  It truly is amazing...

I'm officially STUNNED!

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: joyrex on July 17, 2003, 09:17:15
Great information behind that gibbon-link, Parmenion. It made a lot of sense, especially the body changes section. Good thing I don't have to see a doctor due to these symptoms I've been having. [:D]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on July 17, 2003, 15:03:30
Greetings everyone,

Just to let you know that I will be moving this topic to the Prophecy and Divination forum tomorrow where it rightfully belongs.

Since this was such a big and obviously very popular topic I allowed it to stay here until it quitened down somewhat which it now has.

The topic will remain sticky once it has been moved.

With best regards,

Adrian.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Varner-LaPrade on July 19, 2003, 22:43:32
truth is the anunaki are coming







                 why wont you people listen to sichtin


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 20, 2003, 13:17:07
Dear Chill,

Welcome to the discussion and may I extend my thanks to you for taking the time to read the thread before deciding to post.

Just in case you are wondering why I am replying to you instead of MAYATNIK when you addressed your initial question to him I shall explain. At this time MAYATNIK has moved on to other important work, my advanced training for example. I have willingly undertaken the job of responding to inquiries to the two MAYATNIK threads. MAYATNIK’s guide Karek, who is working directly with me at all times in this, has selected me for the task. I presume you knew all this already though as it has been stated before in both threads.

Eight years is indeed a long time to be using the pendulum. Have you ever thought that you are missing the point entirely? The pendulum is designed as a learning tool, a precursor for telepathy, and is meant to be used as a springboard to advanced learning. To give you some examples:  MAYATNIK moved from the pendulum to telepathy in a matter of weeks and has not used the pendulum for over six years now except to teach its correct use to others. Samuel (SeekingAnswers) progressed from the pendulum to full telepathy after just three days of using the pendulum. I am currently working on improving the telepathy I have realized I already possess.

So you see, to use the pendulum for eight years is akin to riding your bicycle with the stabilizers on for the same amount of time. You even refer to it as your “Fisher-Price phone”, which tells me a lot. ( I’m not sure if everyone is aware of this or not but “Fisher-Price” are makers of children’s toys). Why have you continued to waste your time with something you regard as a children’s toy?

All hope is not lost however. The reason that MAYATNIK started this thread in the first place was to provide those who wished to learn with information on how to correctly use the pendulum. The guidelines that have been posted here are to enable ANYONE who sincerely wishes to learn about it to develop with the pendulum. There is no time frame for advancing. It is all down to the individual. Again ANYONE who wishes to use the pendulum to begin to discover the truth for themselves will, with practice and the right approach to questioning, find that the answers they receive will continually and consistently increase in accuracy. The pendulum is the starting point and telepathy is the next step. I myself have been using the pendulum for an extremely short time and my eyes are opening to a world of truth and explanation.

You can of course continue to fool around with your “Fisher-Price phone”. That is your choice. You can continue to test the pendulum as you have been doing and not learning from your mistakes. You are free to ask questions such as “MAYATNIK, can you please tell us my mother’s name?”, but do not expect a response, since it is for the individual to progress with the pendulum at their own pace. If MAYATNIK or myself were to tell you your mother’s name, and the names of a thousand other people you can think of, it will not act as proof to the individual. The only real way to learn is by personal experience with a positive approach.  Your view that the Pendulum may be building up a ‘storyline’ as you add questions is your perception; consider what happens when the Prime Minister builds up a ‘credibility’ line to the public in what he says – it is up to the individual to interpret that at each stage, and not just go blindly along adding each bit to their ‘foundation’, and the source at the other end of the Pendulum is simply answering your questions for YOU to build up, so nothing is being fed to you as is the case in the physical world we live in.  In this thread is all the information you need to assist you in finding out the real potential of the pendulum, should you choose to apply it and I will be only a post away to help you along in anyway I can.

It’s take it or leave it. It’s up to you. Its your Free Will.

With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 20, 2003, 22:39:24
Dear Chill,

My thanks to you are from myself personally. I know there is a lot of information already posted in these threads so I honestly appreciate your having taken the time to read them. In response to your latest post: You said….


quote:
Actually I don't think I have missed the point entirely. My questions did go beyond the trivial.

I went beyond asking about my life as a human being.

I actually *learnt* many things on what is otherwise invisible to me, things that I cannot verify but rather must receive with a positive open-minded atttitude, as is.


These ‘things’ are verifiable, but not in a scientific way.  The most obvious in this category are things that society accepts as ‘truth’ but which the Pendulum says otherwise – in this way it is paradigm breaking, giving the user information to rethink their conditioning.  This is akin to to a Newspaper exposé of a scandal such as in government circles where the reader has to literally form a new ‘base’ of knowledge from such revelations in order to survey the changed ‘landscape’ of the hitherto supposed reality.  In our known world we may not have access to the ‘facts’ (since governments cover up their real activities and we see only the ‘public face’ to evaluate).  But, evaluate we need to do, and if government ministers were to be more open then we could enquire much deeper to obtain a better picture.  However, even if this was the case, there are areas of ‘technicality’, and background that needs to be absorbed in order to evaluate well (such as the exact situation in two countries that are “in conflict” according to government officials)… and all this needs to be examined in order to obtain a better perspective for evaluation.

The position with investigating via the Pendulum is actually easier, because the Pedulum will answer questions (unlike government officials!), but it will want you to have a good perspective since just giving ‘answers’ will not lead to a true understanding unless the background and other factors have been asked about and some information obtained as a result.

If the Pendulum is approached in a positive frame of mind, then it can be viewed, by analogy, to a friend who ‘knows things’ in higher circles that are not normally available to the public, and who trusts you to tell you these things.  Of course this ‘informant’ is wiser than any human being if you accept that the Pendulum knows all things so has a global (even galactic) perspective on the ‘real’ situation.  Also, it has to be said, that the Pendulum will want you to ask more about the subject and to not just accept the ‘face value’ answers, since a grasp of other factors is essential for a good overall perspective – therefore, the Pendulum will not immediately give you all the facts, but will be watching to see how you are taking these things.  In this way, the Pendulum has your best interests at heart, and its ‘priority’ is always for the person’s inner-development.  So, it is a balancing-act in the Question-Answer session, at the end of which (provided the session is long enough) there will have been some considerable depth covered, leading towards a much better understanding.  Thus, it is not a simple matter of ‘verifying’ because there is often no look-up in some Newspaper archives (although sometimes it can lead the person to finding information by archive checking – this is something that MAYATNIK did in order to trace many members of his natural family who admitted that if it hadn’t been for his ‘ability’ to do this then he would never have found them, since they’d covered all tracks and documents could not be accessed in the normal way as names etc had been changed to make this impossible).  At the end of the day, however, the Pendulum can produce the answers that enable the person to verify to their own satisfaction that things are not the way previously perceived.

If the Pendulum is regarded as an access-device to a ‘file’ system, then there arises the question as to what exactly can be investigated, since the Pendulum will not allow intrusion of anyone else’s privacy.  This is where ‘status’ comes in.  As the Pendulum user gains rapport with their questions the ‘relationship’ grows and the person gradually gets told little things to ‘test’ them, to see how they will react to this responsibility of knowing something revelatory but not private.  If the person reacts well with increased responsible attitude then they are given higher ‘status’ on a “need to know” basis.   This is how MAYATNIK works in his healing and counselling, since he is given private information very often about the person but will not reveal it (not even to the person, as they may well have something they need to ‘work through’ in their life-experience and MAYATNIK will know this) so he will only offer guidance in the right direction – and it is then up to the person, of their own Free Will to follow up if they so wish, and they will not be even overly encouraged to do this since that would be coercion (even if with the best of intent).

It will be seen then, that what may appear to be ‘wrong answers’ may just be in-credible.  They may appear non-credible if the person has a high level of conditioning, so the first step of the Pendulum in this is to break paradigms, and then to advance the frontiers of perception.  The best and most open approach will always be to assume that nothing in this world or out of it is the way it seems, and then new ‘foundations’ can begin to be laid for higher perception.  For this reason, the Pendulum user will from time to time have their sense of ‘reality’ challenged by what the Pendulum reveals in its answers.  The best way forward if unsure is to ask the Pendulum, “Am I thinking about this in the right way?” or similar question.  Then follow up on this.  If the Pendulum seems reluctant to give answers to questions from a certain point, then the user should respectfully say, “May I ask further on this particular line of questioning at this time?”  If the answer is NO, then you should alter your line of questioning.  Maybe the questions were getting into a ‘sensitive’ and/or private area, so broadening out the questioning line may produce answers that will give clues to this as well as further information and inner-learning and development also.

As to what is ‘private’ the rule (unless one has the status to responsibly know and not interfere) is that each person has the right to Free Will, and that means to do as they will even if that is considered by another to be immoral or even illegal.  The person may well have to come to terms with whatever they do, but it is their ‘private’ concern, and nothing to do with anybody who seeks the information via the Pedulum.   On the other hand, anyone who makes public any information (such as in a newspaper, or on the internet or in a book) are inviting comment and speculation, and therefore questioning is permitted regarding those issues made public as well as contributory factors provided they do not infringe ‘privacy’ (for example, a person may make something public but not reveal their ‘source’.  In that case their source is private, but it can be asked whether the source is telling the truth).  With ‘status’ these rules do not apply, since the information will not be passed on to anyone else, and is only given in order to gently guide without giving the answer.

On the point you make about ‘addiction’ to the Pendulum:
quote:
Problem 2. Becoming addicted to it. For day to day guidance on every aspect of living as a human being.

Of course if you become a 24hr a day (or 60 hr a day, in the case of Edward AKA Mayatnik) channeler, then you no longer need the pendulum.


The Pendulum can become addictive – and, in fact, this is the normal process of developing a relationship with a good friend… one simply spends more and more time with that friend, and discusses many things to the extent that the first thought is to pick up the phone and invite the friend over for a good in-depth conversation – or in this case pick up the Pendulum and have a good long session.

In that sense, the ‘addiction’ is very productive.  But, a wise friend will not tell you what to do – only discuss it, and the Pendulum is the same.  So, the situation may arise that a person may become over-addicted to that ‘wise friend’ in which case the Pendulum will do a careful balancing-act and try to wean you off it slightly (you may notice an increase in wrong answers initially, and these are designed to get you to do some lateral thinking about your issues, because the Pendulum does not want you to rely on its answers as such but to learn from them by thinking deeply).  On the other hand, if you are not having good in-depth conversations with the Pendulum it will try to encourage you with interesting answers that will provoke thought for further questioning, and so get into deep conversation with it.  So, you see from this, that the Pendulum can do an awful lot just with YES/NO responses (as well as you finding questions that suddenly  ‘pop’ into your head from seemingly nowhere) – so the ‘source’ is not  only very wise but the perfect teacher that helps you to work through things.

Remember also, from the moment that you pick up the Pendulum and it ‘logs on’ to you, it knows everything about you – and knows you better than you know yourself.  So, it knows when you really need to ask ‘everyday’ questions because there will be times when you need to explore those situations to get over some conditioning or pre-conception, or even need support for an ‘emotional’ level.  It is always best to go with how you feel, so if you feel the need to talk then the Pendulum is ever-patient and will respond as a wise friend and teacher.

As for Channeling in the proper sense of the word (implying great accuracy in the transmission of information) not everyone will become a channeler from using the Pendulum – no more than anyone with a knowledge of electricity or plumbing will take up those professions, but may instead become not only a great Do-It-Yourself expert but will along the way be able to assist others in many ways, and the guides know best which gifts to give to that particular person and how they can best be used.  One thing is certain, that nothing more is ever asked of the person than the person can easily accomplish.  So, as in the case of MAYATNIK, even if the person is disabled and lacking in formal education then nothing will be a problem and the person is helped by the guide to be able to do all that is needed, and even the energy is given to do this. So, while the Pendulum does indeed lead to natural telepathy with a guide when the person is ‘attuned’ this may manifest in several ways.  For instance, the person may not hear a ‘voice’ at first but may sense the urge to write without consciously thinking; this is what I have found of late to be the case for me, and I am now at a stage where I just put my fingers onto the keyboard and it seems to flow without any conscious thought or intervention in any way.  Only when I have finished writing do I then read what I’ve put.  At that that point I check each part with the Pendulum to ensure that it is correct in every way, and that is how my ongoing training is proceeding with Karek, along with lessons from MAYATNIK on what is happening and how best to get the maximum benefit from this stage I am at in this developing ‘awareness’ of what is being gently  channeled to me to write and to think about.

To give you yet another idea of how telepathy is developed, I have been practicing on the instructions of MAYATNIK at receiving ‘pictures’ accurately.  The procedure is simple.  A ‘monitor’ guide is always present, so all you have to do is confidently say (seemingly to thin air, but not the case) “Can you send me some numbers please, one at a time… so that I can check with you whether I’ve received correctly?”.  Then (closing your eyes, in the initial stages until your reception is clear under any conditions) just breathe naturally and ‘look’ at what will appear in your mind.  It may be like those numbers that one can buy for the front door, a wooden or metal one – and it may be a particular colour, say blue or red.  Maybe it has an ‘outline’ in a different colour, say yellow or white.  So, all you have to do is ask, “Is it a number 4?”, “Is the body of it green?”, “Has it got a blue edging?”.  The numbers given could be single digits or, as you progress be any number up to 1000.  When you describe what you see, then you may ‘hear’ in your head, “Yes.  That’s right” or similar.  If you’re not sure whether you ‘heard’ correctly, or if you would like the ‘picture’ resending… then just ask, “Can I have that [can you say that] again please?”.  If you are uncertain whether you’re ‘hearing’ anything (or if it seems too quiet to hear) then ask the Pendulum those questions, and observe the YES or NO answer it gives.  With practice your confidence and ease of reception will improve, and the guide will then take you on to further exercises to increase your growing telepathic ability – maybe a ‘landscape’ picture that you can check for accuracy by asking questions about what is in the picture, and this will increase your ability to start having proper telepathic conversations.  You’ll find it much easier than you think!

Thank you for the link you obtained as a result of your search for ‘PLEIADIAN cult’.   Readers should note, however, that the Pleiadians are not a ‘cult’, nor do they have any following that is indicative of one.  The Pleiadian teachings stress the need to avoid any cults and instead be individual in your spiritual growth rather than following like a sheep or having ‘blind faith’ in what people say. Think always for yourself and from your inner-self especially.  For those who have not seen the link that MAYATNIK gives for a broad view of the Pleiadians and all that is concerning our True Origins and what is yet to be, then I repeat that link here for hundreds of channeled and unbiased scientific articles for the serious researcher into Truth:
http://home.tiscali.nl/~gibbon/  
also    http://jump.to/gibbon

Regarding your request in your earlier post, for MAYATNIK to tell you your mother’s name, you add more information here:
quote:
I am in the process of finding my biological mother. That is why I was aking the question. I cannot ask the question myself because I am emotionnally loaded with the question. Do you understand ? I meant to ask Mayatnik for a few days, from the time I read some posts of him in another forum of the AP, on astral projection. I would really appreciate if you could pass along the question to HIM, thank you. Mayatnik is a sensitive and very wise man, and I would rather have him respond to this, when he finds the time. It could be this week or in a month time. I am eager and at the same time afraid in my personnal quest, so I know that in a month time, it will probably still be time to give me some pointers.


MAYATNIK has asked me to tell you that he will respond to you privately regarding this matter, and will help you in any way he can.  He says to tell you not to worry about this, as all will be made right and he will be very happy to discuss this matter with you and give you some confidential pointers to help you with your quest in due course.

With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: James S on July 21, 2003, 04:06:24
Hello all,

Chill,
a warm welcome to the forum (pun not originally intended[:)])
Thank you for providing a bit "safety" information regarding the pendulum.

Parmenion,
quote:
Eight years is indeed a long time to be using the pendulum. Have you ever thought that you are missing the point entirely? The pendulum is designed as a learning tool, a precursor for telepathy, and is meant to be used as a springboard to advanced learning. To give you some examples: MAYATNIK moved from the pendulum to telepathy in a matter of weeks and has not used the pendulum for over six years now except to teach its correct use to others. Samuel (SeekingAnswers) progressed from the pendulum to full telepathy after just three days of using the pendulum. I am currently working on improving the telepathy I have realized I already possess.

So you see, to use the pendulum for eight years is akin to riding your bicycle with the stabilizers on for the same amount of time.

If memory serves me correct this is now the second time you have commented that someone who professes experience with the pendulum is doing it wrong.

This concerns me.
For half of my life I was involved with a religion that made a point of trying to correct the worlds view on spiritual matters by stating that theirs is the right way and all others are wrong.

I use the pendulum as a dowsing tool for my energy work, as it shows me if I have a chakra that is off balance. I will continue to use it in this manner as long as I continue energy work. This is not within the parameters of how the pendulum's usage is being portrayed here. This will not lead to any development of telepathic abilities in me. I use it as I would use my voltmeter to test for voltages in an electrical circuit. So am I also wrong in how I use it?

To state my position once more so that it is clear, I believe the pendulum is a valuable tool. I do however believe that it is not THE truth, and it will not lead all people to finding THE truth. It is a tool. It will be used rightly or wrongly depending on how people see fit to use it.

Chill's comments should not be recieved as someone who does not know how to use the pendulum. That is an arrogant statement to make as none of us here are in aposition to judge her knowledge or level of competancy with the pendulum.

She has made some valid points regarding the use of the pendulum, not to dismiss anything that has been said about it to date, but just to warn us all that as humans using this tool, we are all bound by human nature to interpret the messages as we see fit. In using the pendulum in this manner we leave ourselves open to a problem called confirmation bias

Confirmation bias is what caused the destruction of two space shuttles and the deaths of 14 astronauts. In the case of the Challenger the confirmation bias was in the design of the fuel delivery system for the main booster. The engineers found a design that worked, and spent a lot of time testing and proving it to work, but didn't try to disprove its design. With the Columbia, it was the fact that in every shuttle launch a piece of insulating foam from the booster had fallen off and hit the shuttle, but had not done any damage, therefore it wasn't a problem.

In each case there were people who spoke out against the establishment and sought proof that there could be a problem. In each case they were overruled by the majority.

In this topic I have seen people speak out, not against the pendulum, but in favour of acting with caution, trying to make people wary that the pendulum is not all truth, all good, but like any useful tool, subject to the conditions in which it is being used. I am seeing these people being told that they are wrong.

Parmenion,
quote:
The Pleiadian teachings stress the need to avoid any cults and instead be individual in your spiritual growth rather than following like a sheep or having ‘blind faith’ in what people say.

When you dismiss other people's experiences with the pendulum that do not agree with yours as being wrong or missing the point, you are at odds with this statement of yours.

Keeping it real,
James.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: rantboi on July 21, 2003, 08:16:35
I know that MAYATNIK is probably not reading this, but I have to say it!

Thank you MAYATNIK!! I have a book called Dowsing for Beginners by Richard Webster, and have not been successful with my hand made pendulum. But, after reading your post, I tried it (without cleaning it or anything), and it worked. I was surprised that mine goes in-out when it's 'no,' and left-right when it's 'yes.' I thought it was the other way, but it worked for me this way! Thank you again for helping me make use of my pendulum. You're the best!

I'm done.[:D]

-Ater


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on July 21, 2003, 10:04:47
Hey chill,

quote:
Originally posted by chill

I have had some extensive experience with the pendulum for approx. 8 years.

Here are 2 potential problems with it :

1. Like what's his name said, 13 in it, god bless you, you can never tell for sure what your Fisher Price phone toy is connecting you to
[...]
Predicting the future (except immediate wheater forecast), guessing cards, numbers (ages of people..), even medical things, the pendulum has failed miserably FOR ME.

2. The pendulum can become addictive.




Addictiveness... this isn't the problem of the pendulum. It's a problem of the user, manifesting through the use of the pendulum... there are also people who rely too much on what their friends say, who follow public opinion in everything... in all cases it's important to life your live yourself!
You are right when you say you can never tell for sure who you're talking to. Maybe this thread gives the image of the pendulum being the ultime tool to immediately know the truth about everything. For me, that is not it's purpose.

There is no truth. There is only your very personal truth.

It's all about seeing possibilities, not being narrow-minded.. the pendulum helps to open the mind to things which may be not so common for you. Nobody ever said you have to believe and act blindly, following the answers of the pendulum, this would be the greatest fault you could make. Be responsible for your words and deeds. Accept the pendulum's input as an opinion. If it's not in accord with what you see as truth - let it be an opinion, don't judge, be open.. then you can simply accept or refuse other possibilities. The pendulum shows you ways and thoughts you didn't think of before. How you incorporate them in your life is up to you.
Does it make a difference whether I am communicating with an ancient goddess or with a dumb something which can't count to 3? Well.. of course it does, but it doesn't at this early stage. All the time I have to try to be conscious of my decisions, of my values, of my believes. The pendulum, used like Mayatnik teaches it, just suggests a different point of view from time to time. It's the pendulum user's responsability of considering these opinions and living his life on his own.

I don't like things getting personal about this.

Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on July 21, 2003, 18:59:41
quote:
Originally posted by chill

You are the one that makes the pendulum move, so it's very possible that your mind (higher self OR subconscious OR consciousness) can end up controling it. With minute unintentional jerks of the wrist, or fingers.



This is exactly the mechanics behind the pendulum. You are the one who moves it - your subconscious. It's intended to be this way. The problem is: where does the subconscious get its input from? We'll have to find out. You could quickly check if the answers were randomized by asking the same questions over and over again. But this doesn't get the skeptic/questioning/cautious mind further to trusting the pendulum in picking up answers from somewhere else than yourself.

Your made up scenario seems familiar to me. You suggested to write down the questions and place them face down on a table... I'd say this is not the right application of the pendulum, that's why it fails. Why should it know what is written on the backside of a paper? It's enough that it knows the answer, now it should even know the question? [|)] Don't take me wrong here.. we all saw that the pendulum fails at 'simple' things like guessing (or knowing) numbers etc.. It doesn't seem like this gets us any further. Did you try it? I did with 6 questions.. got 4 right, 1 maybe (I don't know the answer, probably wrong) and 1 wrong. I and the pendulum could argue about the last one if we were playing a game for money or so... well, I don't know.

I had an other idea today we could try. I'll assemble a list of independent questions, if I select them with care most people here shouldn't know the answers to them. I'll post the questions, everyone who wants to contribute sends me his responses and afterwards we can compare - if the answers are the same, fine. If not... no idea. Let's see [:D] It'll take some time and thinking so give me 1-2 days for it.

Love and Light,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 22, 2003, 00:12:32
Well, I'm posting here again.  No, I didn't just stumble across something that completely shocked me and nobody else (  :D  )

No I'm posting because I used the pendulum again :D  And this time I actually logged it.  Lately I've been talking to Mayatnik across MSN, just about pretty much anything.  Though the conversation shifts plenty of times, there are peaks of interest thrown within that I wanted to ask MY guide about.  Just to compare, ya know :)

So these are my questions.  I wasn't 100% sure I should post them all, then I remembered this is the AstralPulse! YaY!  The Q's are Green, the A's are Blue, and the comments are in Red!!! Whoo.  Again, these are things I picked up that I wanted to ask personally.

(standard into questions, blah blah blah  :) )

1. So, is it true that continuous use of the pendulum leads to Telepathic abilities?  Yes.  ~ Hearing this was a kind of surprise, like that it is true.  I had to ask more...

2. Is the context of "continuous use" "every day" ?  Yes.  ~ I kinda figured this... although I really didn't want it to be true. :p

3. How long is this every day use?  Is it more than 2 weeks straight?  Yes.  ~ I was like "alright 2 weeks.. I can handle that.  Read on :x

4. Is this less that four weeks?  Yes.  ~ whoo. 15 - 27 days... I didn't feel the need to press on.  No need for exact dates.

5. Do you ever converse with me while I am not using the pendulum?  Yes.  ~ Kind of a surprise really, but when you think about it, no...

6. Have you ever met Mayatnik's guide Karek?  No.  ~ Aww, that's a disappointment.  That was gonna spur like 500 questions :)

7. Do you ever plan upon meeting her?  Yes.  ~ Some glimmer of hope on this situation!  So then i decided to ask more about my guide and not just...well you'll see :)

8. Does time exist where you are?  No.  ~ Time doesn't even exist here.  Why did I ask that?! (Time as we know it does not exist, so my question was basically irrelevant)

9. Are you on the Pleiadian "home world"?  Yes.  ~ Check that out :x

10. Is it beautiful there?  Yes.  ~ It's beautiful here, but we all take it for granted (well, not all of us ;) I still don't know why I asked that...maybe for the next question...

11. Is it possible for humans to visit where you are?  Yes.  ~ Read the other post, page one I think.  The conversation one.  You'll see :)

12. Will I ever be able to visit where you are?  Yes.  ~ Well, if anyone can, I'm anyone!  I should've asked if I will go :x

There were a few more, but you know, I should have written those down.  Hope this strikes a few questions, because lately I feel like nobody bothers to read my posts :p  READ THEM!

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on July 22, 2003, 19:38:13
Hi Parmenion!

I know you've been very busy lately supporting Mayatnik's work here. But I have a favor to ask. I still seem to be having some problems with information that I receive from my pendulum. If its not too much to ask, could you please ask your guide (I think you said you are also working with Karek) if I'm doing something wrong? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: spellcast91 on July 22, 2003, 20:02:44
hey im spellcast91. i cant use divination (im just caught up in other spiritual things) but i would like to know if any of you have seen anything having to do with six years.thats the only information i can give out, but ill take anything having to do with the term six years.if u can IM me using aim (my s/n is spellcast91),but otherwise email me at spellcast91@hotmail.com


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 23, 2003, 14:46:46
Greetings Everyone,

There are some interesting comments and questions in these last few posts. It is always nice to see a bit of diversity.

Squeek,

Some excellent questions you asked there. As you can see, it makes it easy to remember your sessions if you log your questions and answers. Even just the act of writing them down in and of itself will make them easier to remember.

You raise some interesting topics which would definitely benefit from further questioning. What you are seeing with the answers you have received is a ‘snapshot’ of the whole story. Investigate further and you will get more and more information and be able to construct a fuller ‘picture’ of the reality. A couple of your questions in particular got my attention and I will be doing a little investigating of my own. This is why it is of great help to read other people’s questions and answers. It sparks off fresh ideas and new lines of inquiry. Thank you for posting them.

Novice,

You don’t need to ask any favours of me. This is what I have been selected to do and what I have agreed to do. All you have to do is ask, as you have done before.

I asked Karek if you are doing something wrong and she replied “no”. As you know this question is far too general to discover anything really usefull from the answer. If you tell me a little more about how you are getting on and where you feel you are having difficulties I will be able to ask Karek how best to address these problems. An example from one or more of your sessions with the pendulum would be great.

Spellcast91,

Again, I’m afraid that you will need to be a little more specific here. There have been several references in this thread alone of the phrase/'term' "6 years". I could also tell you that in six years it’s going to be 2009 but I don’t think that’s what you are looking for. You can send me an e-mail via my profile if you would rather do that than be any more specific here. Or are we playing a guessing game here?

Edi,

quote:
I had an other idea today we could try. I'll assemble a list of independent questions, if I select them with care most people here shouldn't know the answers to them. I'll post the questions, everyone who wants to contribute sends me his responses and afterwards we can compare - if the answers are the same, fine. If not... no idea. Let's see  It'll take some time and thinking so give me 1-2 days for it.

Love and Light,
Edi


I am looking forward to seeing what questions you come up with. This could be quite interesting. A couple of suggestions if I may…..

The questions should not be of a personal nature as most everyone will not be entitled to receive personal information on another person. Privacy is respected and if you don’t need to know, you won’t find out. Also the information should not be readily accessible on the internet or by ‘normal’ means. The reasoning for this is obvious I think.

After that, I leave it in your capable hands. I’m not trying to suggest what questions you should create, just pointing out a few ‘potholes’ to avoid.


With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Vallk on July 23, 2003, 22:30:10
Edi,

Now that I have my pendulum working, I'd be interested in trying to get answers to your questions. Please let me know when your list is ready!

Valerie


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Risu no Kairu on July 24, 2003, 01:17:49
Could someone suggest me some good questions to ask? Especially ones that lead into others?

I mean, I have trouble thinking of a question to ask, let alone four hours worth of questions everyday.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 24, 2003, 16:33:10
Greetings Risu,

Any questions are good to ask. What is more important is the approach to the questioning. Deep and meaningful questions are great but there is no need to overlook everyday questions you may have on your mind. Start out with whatever it is that’s on your mind. Don’t worry about the questions not being ‘good enough’….they are your questions and should be what you want them to be. A common misconception seems to be that you have to ask questions of great importance or that you can only ask questions that are strictly of a spiritual nature. This is not the case and in overlooking everyday topics you are missing out on an opportunity to learn from the answers you will receive.

When you use the pendulum and begin to receive answers you will find that some of these answers will spawn questions that you had not previously thought about. This is how a session with the pendulum can go on for such a long time. One question leads to another and you find it is quite natural to still be sitting down with your pendulum hours after you had begun. Personally I never have more than a couple of questions in mind when I pick up my pendulum. I check the clock after a time and am often surprised at how much time had lapsed. It is the same as getting caught up in a really interesting conversation with a knowledgeable friend.

Also, reading the Q&A sessions that others have posted often gives you ideas about what you may wish to ask the pendulum. I have found that by reading others’ sessions questions have come to my mind that I wish to investigate, the most recent post of such being from Squeek. This is why it is so beneficial for members to post the results of their sessions with the pendulum on these threads, for others to share in, and get ideas from.

With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: chupacabra on July 24, 2003, 19:34:30
I don't mean to oversimplify but I'm trying to get a handle on this. According to Parmenion, the purpose of the pendulum is to lead you down paths of thought and questioning which are beneficial to your spiritual developement. The answers and their veracity are not necessarily the point. Correct?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on July 26, 2003, 02:31:31
I've just started another thread at http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5962 - Pendulum group experiment.

As we have seen in this thread, many people do not want to blindly believe what is being said about the pendulum concerning truth, guidance, communication, objectivity etc., so I thought it would be best to carry out an experiment: I made a list of 67 questions, mostly independent, about various topics. I would like forum members who know how to use the pendulum to get answers to these questions and send me the results via private message/mail, so I can compare what everyone gets - and we'll see if it's all mumbo-jumbo, if the answers match, and how the accordance depends on the type of questons.

I invite everyone to participate! Please read the other thread for more information.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on July 27, 2003, 14:38:48
:(
Hello
It's not working for me :(
I used as a pendulum a chain,i did the ritual but i dopn't get clear answers. I say show me a yes and it moves. I say show me a no and it doesn't move! I say again show me a yet and it moves at another direction!!!
And when it moves, it's a very slight movement. Sometimes i can't distinguish what it means

Help please?
Malvina


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 28, 2003, 00:11:44
Greetings Malvina,

There’s no need for concern here, you’re problem is not uncommon. All you need to do is loosen up a little and relax. Be confident and enjoy yourself. Life should be fun and the pendulum is no exception.

When using the pendulum for the first time, instead  of saying “Show me a YES” it should be “Can you GIVE me a yes please?”. You need to have a YES/NO movement assigned to the pendulum before you can be shown it. In any case “Show” is generally reserved for commands like “Show me North please” or “Point to North please”.

The movements of your pendulum are too small to be sure of anything at present. What I suggest to do is to start with the YES movement. Remember to let loose and relax. Say to the pendulum “Give me a YES please”. When you get a YES movement keep asking with “Can you give me a bigger YES please?” and see how big you can get the swing to go. When your happy with this move on to the NO and just follow the same procedure.

You say that you are using a chain as your pendulum. Is there something on the end of the chain? If not then it’s not really a pendulum at all. Other than that a little practice and confidence in what you are doing is all that it will take for you to see that you have no problems using the pendulum at all.

With best regards,

Dave



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on July 28, 2003, 10:18:33
Hello Parmenion
Thank you for your reply. :)
Yes i had something hanging from the chain, something like a pendant, maybe it was too light though?
Can you tell me how to make an ideal pendant please?
is it possbile for everyone to talk with a Pledeian, or guide through the pendulum?
Malvina


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on July 29, 2003, 03:07:32
Greetings,

There is no ‘ideal’ pendulum. The first one I had was a battered gold ring on the end of a piece of builders line. All that matters is that you are comfortable with it. You could test the weight by adding a button or similar to make it heavier and see how it works for you. At the end of the day what’s important is that it feels right to you.

quote:
is it possbile for everyone to talk with a Pledeian, or guide through the pendulum?


I am glad you brought this up Malvina as there seems to be a growing misconception of the relation of guides to the pendulum. The pendulum is a teaching tool. It is not a ticket to instant communication with a guide, nor does using the pendulum mean that you will be assigned a guide.

Some are making the assumption that in using the pendulum they will automatically have a guide assigned to them. This is most definitely not the case. There is a great deal of work to be done on the self before any progress can be made and the pendulum is designed for this purpose. It is designed to help you break your conditioning and assist in inner-development. I cannot stress that point enough. I am aware that I have said that the pendulum will lead to telepathy, and this is true, but not before much work has been done on the self. Everyone is different and as such their progress will reflect this. The standard chain of events is that you will start off with a ‘monitor’ guide, then often teacher guide(s) and then only if you are ready will you likely be assigned a guide.

The best way to look at it is like this; When using the pendulum take it that you are working with your ‘Higher Self’ and do not assume anything else. Just treat the pendulum with respect and positivity and work from there. There is much work involved before being assigned a guide and many tests along the way. The ‘wrong answers’ of the pendulum are just the starting point.

For those who are fortunate to have a guide already, as does James, you should always listen to your guide as they know what is best for you at any given time. The guides are well intentioned in all that they do and their advice is for the individual they are guide to alone. This may mean telling them that the pendulum is not for them if their guide has other plans for them. This is not to say that the pendulum is wrong or not as good, rather that the advise is for the individual and does not apply to others. The situation with that person may well change in which case their guide will let them know from time to time.

When all has been said and done the fact remains that the pendulum is a teaching tool. The title of this topic seems to have been largely misunderstood. The truth is not handed to you on a plate. You must find it for yourself.

With best regards,

Dave
 



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Fuzziwig on July 29, 2003, 22:01:41
Hello all
Phew ! Just finished reading the whole thread. It has been very helpfull with all the inputs.
I have myself tried the pendulum by first using a bathtubplug (but was to heavy to use for a long time) and later a heavy button on a string.
I have on the use of the pendulum learned that its very important to be specific. Rather exaggerate the sentences than be to vague.
Example:
I had been troubleshooting my brothers computer for some time when I
turned to the pendulum to find out what it had to say. Questions going in the line of : "Does the Memory in my brothers computer work ?". The answers all went "yes" and I was frustrated. Then it hit me to be specific and I reprased the question to "does the memory in my brothers computer work as it was designed to". When I thought about it, all the items in the computer worked, but not just as i wanted them to. I got my answers and found out the problem.

Reprasing the question in general also works for me in some cases when I have a feeling that the question wasnt what I meant or could be misunderstood. As to this I cant help to think that my intuition (my higher self??) plays a part in this and this way im learning from 2 sides : the pendulum giving answers and intuition giving suspicion or not, to the question and giving me chance to investigate further. If you could give me some insight on this it would be highly appreciated.

I must say that im mildly confused to the whole guide/higher self talk. Whether you are assigned a guide or not. Please correct me if im wrong, but its your higher self (that being alot of incarnation which are to help) that responds to the questions. The guide if assigned to you are a part of the higher self or outside [?] or is both possible in different cases [?]

Another matter is that the advanced function for the pendulum has been very useful but given me some strange readings sometimes. I recieve a 45 degree swing on some of my questions. Mayatnik describe the 45 degree swing as being unprogrammed hence my confusion .

As to the addiction of the pendulum, I would speculate that the source behind the answers to the pendulum would say "no" when asking "Can I ask questions now?" or just stand still when asked. I take the assumption that the source (in my case my higher self) knows whats best for me, so its also a question of trust. If I was to feel that its becoming an addiction, I would ask the pendulum for guidance on the matter. Hopefully clearing up the problem.


Mayatnik:
I would like to thank you for a wonderful tool for selfdevelopment. It has really made a difference to me for what its worth. The description on using the pendulum for physical direction was inspiring.
You write that you have problems with your eyes and must read very close to the monitor. From what indicates, you are using ms messenger and thereby windows. I know that on most windows operating systems, that there are a handicap function that can read texts out loud on your speakers if you own such. A soundcard would also be required to do this. Should you require my help in this matter, please let me know.

Edi:
I would like to thank you for your very usefull and interesting idea on gaining telepathic abilities. Im refering to the method on guessing a letter then a word and later sentences. I will try this for sure. Then I would like to address your groupexperiment which I can only think is a good idea. As I have experienced myself and through reading others post on this thread, words and phrases can have different meanings to people and thereby giving different outcome of answers to the same questions. So this may be taken into account and if you already have, then its just a friendly reminder :O). Keep up the good work.

Parmenion:
Thank you for sharing your method on developing telepathy (Landscapes and coloured letters). I will try it sometime but I think I will try Edi's method first to get a dialog going or maybe both if im doing well.

It seems to me that it would be a good idea to summerize these telepathy methods. Just a thought anyway [:I]

Best wishes and warm feelings
Fuzziwig


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Psi on July 29, 2003, 22:11:27
Wow Parmenion, have you checked into the idea that you may be a reincarnated Buhhda!? That is a lot of knowelagable and meaningful posting.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 29, 2003, 22:15:52
Makes sense to me.  Gotta learn to earn.

Hehe, rhymage.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on July 30, 2003, 02:08:17
CHILL
chill why do you bother about the pendulum if you think it`s all misleading info ? I mean you don`t belive in taoism (let us say) but you`re not on their forums bugging them !! or maybe... are you ?

You told us your opinion, but it seems you want to make yourself heard and understood.. We got your point !!

What i mean is.. if you don`t have any new opinions and ideas, stop rephrasing your posts.. because this thread already has 19 pages !! :)

Parmenion
Nice job.. handling all this questions and stuff

MAYATNIK
Where are you ? I haven`t read a post of yours in a while !

SAMUEL
Are you still a member :))

MALVINA
Nice to see you

EDI
you too :)

Best to all,
Thawon


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on July 31, 2003, 00:22:35
Nothing about me?  Awesome

Thus proves my theory that nobody listens to the crap I post :p

~Squeek

PS - You SHOULD.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on July 31, 2003, 00:38:13
Sorry Squeek - your input was most welcomed too

Really !!!

No hard feelings ! :) right ? :)


Thawon


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on July 31, 2003, 02:59:52
quote:
Originally posted by Tao

CHILL
chill why do you bother about the pendulum if you think it`s all misleading info ? I mean you don`t belive in taoism (let us say) but you`re not on their forums bugging them !! or maybe... are you ?

You told us your opinion, but it seems you want to make yourself heard and understood.. We got your point !!

What i mean is.. if you don`t have any new opinions and ideas, stop rephrasing your posts.. because this thread already has 19 pages !! :)

Parmenion
Nice job.. handling all this questions and stuff

MAYATNIK
Where are you ? I haven`t read a post of yours in a while !

SAMUEL
Are you still a member :))

MALVINA
Nice to see you

EDI
you too :)

Best to all,
Thawon



yeah why bother talking about it if you're not going to be a blind devout follower of the tool..  Im really sick of people telling the few people with sense to stay off this thread.

For those of us watching this little Mayatnik/Parmenion channeling Karek enlightenment develop her very valid questions are a breath of fresh air.  The more the tone of this place is only supporters are welcome the more my feelings are confirmed on this whole topic.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on July 31, 2003, 08:32:28
Hey all
I FINALLY mada my own pendulum and today on my first session i played a game with the pendulum. I was asking it questions like, is there a pencil in my first drawer, questions i did not know the anwers to. Then i would mark the answer get on on other questions and then at the end check each question and give points to my pendulum if it got it right, and points to myself when he got it wrong.
Thing is, we had a very enjoyable session, that was seperated in two parts, but the pendulum got 9/24 answers wrong! :(
Shouldn't it have gotten all of them right if its so accurate?
Any ideas why he got them wrong?

Also, say i get assigned a guide, if after some time i don't want him/her anymore? Will they leave and how? (i don't think this is very likely, but still just in case :P)

Malvina



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: James S on July 31, 2003, 09:35:43
Hi Malvina,

quote:
Also, say i get assigned a guide, if after some time i don't want him/her anymore? Will they leave and how? (i don't think this is very likely, but still just in case :P)

If you have any thoughts or doubts at this stage that this might be the case, do not expect that a true guide will come to you. The pendulum is a tool to be used. Guides are not.

Note I say "true" guide. Not every entity that is channelled by these means is a guide, or more to the point your guide. There are many good spirits waiting and wanting to help, and many helpers in the astral that are not necessarily meant to be a guide, but can assist you anyway. There are also many lower entities that will use your attempts at channeling as a means to cause problems. Always test the spirits, and never be afraid to challenge a spirit if you feel ill at ease about it.

Your true guide will be a spirit who has probably been watching out for you your whole life. If a guide is what you need, they will come to you when the time is ready. When that time comes, and you do meet your true guide, you will no sooner want to be rid of her/him than you would one of your own limbs.

Bear in mind also, that for some people, they're guides are actually their higher selves.

All the best,
James.





Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on July 31, 2003, 16:41:51
quote:
Originally posted by goingslow

quote:
Originally posted by Tao

CHILL
chill why do you bother about the pendulum if you think it`s all misleading info ? I mean you don`t belive in taoism (let us say) but you`re not on their forums bugging them !! or maybe... are you ?

You told us your opinion, but it seems you want to make yourself heard and understood.. We got your point !!

What i mean is.. if you don`t have any new opinions and ideas, stop rephrasing your posts.. because this thread already has 19 pages !! :)

Parmenion
Nice job.. handling all this questions and stuff

MAYATNIK
Where are you ? I haven`t read a post of yours in a while !

SAMUEL
Are you still a member :))

MALVINA
Nice to see you

EDI
you too :)

Best to all,
Thawon



yeah why bother talking about it if you're not going to be a blind devout follower of the tool..  Im really sick of people telling the few people with sense to stay off this thread.

For those of us watching this little Mayatnik/Parmenion channeling Karek enlightenment develop her very valid questions are a breath of fresh air.  The more the tone of this place is only supporters are welcome the more my feelings are confirmed on this whole topic.



  Ohh you care so much for us or for your own ego ? i wonder. You want to show us that this is not the WAY.

  Even myself,"the blind devout follower of the tool", the "slave" who "obeys" to the "Great Guides" "commands", haven`t said that I know that everthing about "the Pendulum" is 100% TRUE and SECURE.. but also I have never said that this is all LIES because I do not know (nor i have ever implied that i do)! And neither do you ! So let us hope that we will state our opinions in the future rather than impose it.
I`m in for democracy.. so if you want to offend me again.. go ahead.. I just STATED my OPINION.

your truly neutral,
Thawon


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 01, 2003, 00:35:36
Sign me up on the lemming train, because I beleive in something "crazy"!!!

For y'all, ignorance is bliss, and if that's the way you like it, so be it!  I don't entirely know why you're trying to sway people your way, but people have a thing called free will...  All of these assumptions about the pendulum and all is really starting to irritate me.  If you don't trust it, you don't have to use it!  This really is no different from any other new idea ever brought about on these boards.  

Some people have made some crazy accusations about the things they cannot explain.  All I'm asking is to think outside the box.. I mean, isn't that the reason you're here in the first place?

I'm not saying you HAVE to use the pendulum, nor do you have to beleive in it.  All I'm saying is that some people would be interested in reading about it and finding it through pages and pages of bickering is hard!!

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on August 01, 2003, 03:15:37
the one thing I find interesting about this whole thing.. is how everyone who is using the pendulum or most are becoming very defensive people who cant read any opposition.

You might want to think about.  I for one am done talking about it.  But one thing is for sure.. in your hours of chanelling with this beautiful tool.. if something comes through you that you cant shake off, dont say you didnt get both sides.

Have fun learning truth and advancing.  This thread has nothing to do with either.  Im not the only one who thinks that btw.. I just dont care as much about stepping on defensive little toes.

Have fun playing with the nice aliens..


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on August 01, 2003, 05:10:26
quote:
Originally posted by Squeek



For y'all, ignorance is bliss, and if that's the way you like it, so be it!  I don't entirely know why you're trying to sway people your way, but people have a thing called free will...  All of these assumptions about the pendulum and all is really starting to irritate me.  

~Squeek




btw squeek pretty much everyone who has given a warning has said the pendulum itself is a useful tool.  No one is "against it".  However, it is not an assumption ANYTHING can come through.  Timeless Adrian Inguma and James have all said the same thing.  Both lower beings on the astral and higher can come through to you by this means.

They were words of caution.  Nothing more.. what you're doing is channelling.  It was the denial of that most here are addressing.  If you chose to accept that and still use it fine.  Just realize that is what you're doing.  If you like being lied to thats also fine.  Then know only your guide will come through like Mayatnik said.  

Either way im sticking to my word and thats the last warning you'll hear from me.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeekingAnsers on August 01, 2003, 13:25:02
YIPPIE!!!! you promise??[:D]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Cryo_Optics on August 01, 2003, 14:56:47
Hello all.

I'd just like to ignore all these pointless arguments and immature outbursts of people who have much too powerful an ego for any of us to ever understand (note sarcasm).

Well if any of you don't mind in your mindless bickering, I'm going to resort to making a reply about the actual topic that this topic is about, sounds reasonable, right? Right. Well anyways...

I've been using the pendulum for about a week now, and have had much success in my learning. Through the pendulum, I discovered that I had been contacting the monitor guide in my area, and after many revaltions I had and discoveries I made, I quickly proceded in my inner-developement. At one point, I could feel a drastic change in my life, and I asked the pendulum, but something was wrong, I felt as if everything was different. I could sense that the monitor guide was gone, and I missed him. When I asked if the monitor was with me, I got a definite no.

I then asked if I still had a guide with me at the time, and got a definite yes. Soon I verified that I had stopped being monitored, and had been shown my spirit/teacher guide. After much practice and work with him, I soon came to find him as a male being, who's name was Lithan. As of now, I am working on my telepathy skills to become more in contact with him, and I am hoping to progress further. Thanks for all the help everyone.

With best regards,
Alex and Lithan, my loving and trusting guide.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 01, 2003, 19:56:05
Yay!!  I love success stories :D

G.Slow - Sorry to hear that it's your last post here.  Twas fun twisting my mind around the things you said.  Don't think I never read your posts unbaisedly mmkay?

I never intended my previous post to be "bickery"... Sorry if I came off that way.  I just want to hear success stories posted here because it makes me happy :D

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on August 02, 2003, 01:11:46
quote:
Originally posted by Squeek

Yay!!  I love success stories :D

  I just want to hear success stories posted here because it makes me happy :D

~Squeek




I respect the honesty in that statement... thats something I can understand.  

take care.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on August 03, 2003, 10:42:33
Hello everybody.

The discussion calmed down now... I'm not interested in argueing about trusting the pendulum, the pleiadian cult, "mayatnik's followers", and all the other arguments, personal or not. Everyone has his own opinion, this is the way it has to be, but I don't want to discuss opinions now. I'll rather tell you about my experiences.

I found telepathic connection with my first teacher guide a few days after I started using the pendulum. This was in line with what I have been thinking and meditating about the days before I found the pendulum - I explored how thoughts come into my mind and how they form to words... strange coincidence. It sortof made it easier to see and feel what is in my head. I explored this new type of communication which was slowly beginning to establish and is still far from perfect, although it improved greatly in the meantime. Then, I had to take a break of 2 weeks for university exams, and came back again to the pendulum with more time and more enthusiasm. I regained telepathic contact, and as soon as it was good and clear and I felt secure with it, my first teacher (who was only there to teach me the the pendulum and the beginnings of telepathy) left and I met my guide who is with me from this time on.

At times I felt insecure. At time I felt crazy. At other times, I felt great and was seeing a new world unfolding before my eyes. The discussion about negs influencing the pendulum scared me a bit and made me progress more cautiously, and I appreciate that - it was a good thing to go through this. To be honest: at one time I thought: "What's this neg stuff all about? I've never seen or experienced a 'neg', I have no fear, if I see cautiously what happens without fear but with caution - what can happen? I can always stop any time". From then on I looked what my guide could tell me.

The most important thing for me: I have fears of some things. Personal issues. When talking or doing something, I always worry too much about what other people think, for example. I knew this problem, but I never faced it. Now I have this voice in my head who gave me courage to do the thinks _I wanted to do_ but was too afraid of. I am being led to overcome my fears, to have the guts do really express what I feel, to be self-conscious. There is nothing my guide would force me to do - it's all about finding myself first.

I always enjoy hearing from my guide "NEVER do anything I say without thinking about it in detail first. Don't do it if it's against what you percieve to be good, normal and healthy for you.". Actually she never told me anything which could do any harm. In the contrary... she leads me to find what is good for me, to explore myself, to find answers on my own.

What's more... I learn many things. I learned how to give Reiki healing, and I'm developing this ability more and more. I got it confirmed from friends that actually it's no imagination which is tricking me... it is real. An experienced Reiki practitioner said I have a good feeling for energy and I should learn doing it, and I am learning it now from my guide, along with other things. I back up the information I get with good readings, in books and in the internet, to learn faster and to get new ideas, more input to process. This healing issue was there all my life... if I look back, how I always had the feeling or the mind-set for this work, although I never thought of it until lately... it fits perfectly in my life. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but nevertheless it's beautiful.

A few days ago I spent a night with Mayatnik improving the communication with my guide. The communication was there already, but now it is clearer. I feel cared for, and I feel more confident and self-conscious every day. That night was joyful learning. I was shown the Reiki energy from my guide then, and learned how to use it and work with it. The pendulum is a useful tool in chakra diagnosis here.

The last few weeks, Mayatnik has been preparing some articles to post here which will give us many inspirations. As you may know, I wanted to do a "group experiment" with the pendulum... it didn't get what I expected it to be. It's informative nevertheless, I'll post  my thoughts in that tread somewhen next week. Mayatnik will give an approach to using the pendulum scientifically to explore our reality... to do objective testing with the pendulum. He'll write about how the pendulum can open a door for science, where many new discoveries can be made. You'll read about objective experiments everyone can conduct for himself... many of us will probably get interesting ideas out of these articles.

To finish - I don't say anything about the pendulum. I just am deeply grateful for everything I have experienced so far and for what is about to come, and I hope that others too will experience this joyfull bliss, be it with or without the pendulum and the pleiadians. Nature knows many ways of revealing herself, and not everyone follows the same path. But all have the same goal: respect, understanding, care and love.

This love I send to all of you,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on August 03, 2003, 11:46:35
Hey Edi

I'm glad things worked out for you so well :)
I hope i progress as well, i think i've told you that a thousand times! Anyway, i'm happy for you :)

Malvina



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on August 03, 2003, 14:06:40
Nice Edi.. Really cool
But what is this Reiki healing and all ?
Second: Do you use the pendulum to talk to your guide anymore ?
Third: Are you always in contact with your guide ?


Mike [|)]


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 03, 2003, 18:14:44
Look!  Post # 300!  It has no relevance to the topic at all however :P

Just thought I'd point out that this is a record-breaking topic. No other topic has yet to breach 250, and this one is a little over a month old.

Hehe summer is so boring x.x  Please talk to me online ...  And sorry if i drop without warning, my sister likes to kick me offline (sorry Parm :x)

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lynfer on August 03, 2003, 23:29:49
I've been having a hard time trying to find ways to test the answers the pendelum gives me. Any suggestions?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on August 03, 2003, 23:36:13
I think James S wrote about this..
Try his new topic: A simple test - "you say YES, but what if NO..."  
This is the link: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6209


Hope this helps,
Mike :)


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on August 07, 2003, 01:41:44
Taking advantage of the current lull I sit to put my thoughts and experiences into words. There has been a lot of controversy in recent days and weeks with regard to the pendulum, the Pleiadians, MAYATNIK and to a certain degree myself also. A few days ago I decided to take a step back from the forefront and spend some time alone with myself. It was more of a necessity than a choice to be honest, I needed the time to reflect and take a journey inwards. There are some thoughts I wish to share with you all at this time.

Regardless of what your opinions may be on any of that which has transpired here since the pendulum thread originated, I wish to say that it is no concern of mine as to how many people use the pendulum or not. I intend to have the information accessible for all to read and answer any genuine questions to the best of my ability. I am not designing to infringe upon the Free Will of anyone. Similar to other informative posts and articles elsewhere on this and other sites, the information is presented for the individual to read if they wish and then to make a decision as to whether or not to take this information on board.

When the pendulum article was originally posted by MAYATNIK I was not quite convinced that this tool could have quite the effect his words implied. Sceptical but eager to prove myself wrong, I picked up my pendulum and dusted it off to investigate for myself the truth behind this man’s words. Thus began the most enlightening period of my life to date in terms of discovery of self. There is a feeling I have carried with me my entire life. This feeling is the reason why I have always moved so quickly from one thing to another when I felt I was not fulfilling my purpose. I still do not fully understand this feeling or how it originated but I am getting very close; so close I can taste it. All the experiences of my past good and bad are merging together to form a bigger picture of my purpose, the reason I chose to incarnate here and at this time.

The last few days were very dark for me indeed. All the doubts of my logical mind fought long and hard against what I know to be true in the very depths of my being. Things I have been taught to believe as fact, the conditioning I see and that which I do not plagued me at every turn, battling against the growing realisation stirring in my very core. It was human logic and reasoning versus feeling, emotion and intuition. In the end though try as I might, there was no denying the truth. I can choose to bury my head in the sand and refuse to accept who I am and the road I have laid out for myself, or I can choose to see fear for what it is and have the courage to accept the part I am to play on this living stage. I have made my choice.

Since making my decision my entire perception has began to change. Events of my life that beforehand appeared chaotic are blending together in synchronicity. I see the reasoning behind all that I do and I understand how the choices I have made in the past have led me to where I am now. I look at the experiences of my past and present with detachment, seeing how I have created them and why. There is a powerful momentum building and for the first time I am fully aware of the direction in which I am headed.

It has been said in before in arguments both for and against the pendulum that the pendulum is just a tool. It is a tool yes, but I have yet to see another such tool that can have such a profound effect on a person’s spiritual evolution in such a short space of time. I am not referring solely to myself; in these terms I feel I am a slow learner. I have been talking to people on msn that have moved forward at such a rate that I felt I had to step away so as not to hold them back, in particular with telepathy. My own personal struggle with the ‘knowledge’ I have from this lifetime held me back. Even now I have yet to take full advantage of telepathy. When I finish writing this I will get back to work on communicating fully and naturally with Karek. There is a seemingly infinite amount I wish to learn but as I have made the journey into myself by myself, this is how I choose to write this to you. Every word I am saying is my own and is straight from the heart…or the hip, depending on your point of view. [;)]

I contacted MAYATNIK originally because I felt the need to when, after the disagreements with 13, I thought that he would not be posting again on this site. I have always acted as mediator as this is one of my strongest personality traits. What I saw was nothing more than conflicting opinions and I wanted to suggest that it was not necessary to cease posting because of this. After a brief conversation on msn with MAYATNIK I saw that my concern was unnecessary and I changed the topic to the pendulum which I was interested in learning more about. I asked a few questions pertaining to what I experienced when I had used the pendulum before. I was using the pendulum as we were chatting to verify what I was being told when a thought occurred to me. I asked the pendulum if I were to give it a message could the message be passed on to MAYATNIK by Karek. I got a strong YES response and was thinking about what to say when a sentence entered my head, as clear as day and in a soft female tone.

“Tell Edward I said hello”     (Edward being MAYATNIK’s first name)

Although the message was as clear as they come I was still sceptical and used the pendulum to find out that Karek had said this to me telepathically. So, tentatively I asked MAYATNIK if Karek had indeed asked me to tell him she said hello. She had, and this was my first experience with telepathy.

When I was asked to temporarily take over the running of the threads I was only too happy to accept. I was (and am still) very fond of the Astralpulse forums and saw an opportunity for me to be of benefit to others whilst learning a great deal myself. Not once did I imagine that the topics would arouse such heated discourse. Nevertheless what’s done is done and at least now one can not say with honesty that there has not been equal debate done for both sides of the coin. Responding to the replies on the pendulum threads has been a pleasure, for the most part.[:)]

I have from the very outset taken a positive approach to working with the pendulum and before having conversed with MAYATNIK was looking to myself to see why things were not moving as I wished or expected them to. I am by nature an extremely positive person and I have always said to look to one’s self first before attributing blame to others. Perhaps this is just me but that approach is, in my opinion, what enabled my accelerated learning curve to begin. It has been the same way with people I have been talking with on MSN messenger. If they are positive they generally have no problems at all whereas the opposite is true with a negative person. Such is the way of life. The electromagnetic frequency emitted by a person is indicative of what they can expect to receive back, by way of the law of attraction.

Once I discovered that I was communicating with Karek I felt a sense of familiarity with her. I enjoy her sense of humour immensely and while I needed my time to myself, I am truly looking forward to ‘talking’ with her again for more than a minute or two a day which is what I have been doing the past few days, some days not at all. She has already shown me much and certain events of my life that never quite fitted in anywhere beforehand make perfect sense to me now. One of the ways in which I have been learning to take advantage of is the ‘ability’ I have been shown that is akin to out-of-body exploration and remote viewing. I had said that I would post about this ‘ability’ here so what follows is a transcript of my MSN chat with MAYATNIK in which Karek first showed me how to do this. My own notes are in green.

MSN conversation with MAYATNIK dated July 21st 2003

MAYATNIK says:
Ok...... so you will have to 'ask' to be taken to a place......... Now I want you to ask (with your eyes open) "Take me to a 'cosmetic' animal-experimentation laboratory please"... then close your eyes, and you'll 'go' there.  Wander around and examine as before.

Parmenion says:
Building looks rectangular with a domed roof. Prefabricated metal with a big green door
Walking inside I see what looks at first to be gold color, then white all around
Walk down the corridor ahead of me then switch to overhead view.
Corridors criss-cross to make squares in between ~ the rooms

[MAYATNIK says:
You are absolutely spot on there.... that's the view I have too.

Parmenion says:
Bright, white, extremely clean ~ sparkling

MAYATNIK says:
Different 'feel' to the defence place.


This was my second of these such ‘visits’. The first was to a defense facility which I kept short as I got the distinct impression I was not ‘welcome’ there.

Parmenion says:
Absoluely, that other place had me on edge altogether

MAYATNIK says:
It was the 'vibration'..... you are positive and there was strong 'negativity' in what was being done there...... the men were uneasy by your presence but did not know why.

Parmenion says:
Back to this place. i ask to be taken back to the center of the building. To my left I hear screeching. A chimp or ape of somesort.
I turn towards the door of the room where the noise is coming from. I open the door but stop dead in my tracks before its fully opened . The screeching gets louder and I can feel the pain of this animal
Its a chimp
I can feel its pain

MAYATNIK says:
Ask what the purpose of the animal is there.

Parmenion says:
'They' are doing something to its teeth or gums
The chimp is left alone now and I am talking with a scientist. I cannot make out all he is saying but " we are testing its reaction to..." He is showing me something on the computer
Im 'pushed' out of the room

MAYATNIK says:
He was 'daydreaming' then he realised.

Parmenion says:
He told me I wasnt welcome there either

MAYATNIK says:
You obviously upset him

Parmenion says:
Yes, his attitude became quite aggressive

MAYATNIK says:
Find the caretaker......find what happens to the rubbish.


Prior to this I had seen the janitor (and his dog) on the corridors but now sought him out specifically.

Parmenion says:
Jesus wept!
Im overwhelmed with feelings of sorrow and disgust
Theres a room towards the back thats an incinerator
some of the 'rubbish' eugh! is burned, others is fed to the live animals
The janitor has a dog ~ a rotweiler or pitbull of somesort
The dog is going nuts to get at me but cant

MAYATNIK says:
Animals can sense..... you can also quieten the animal with thoughts of love.
throw out a 'pink' cloud with love

Parmenion says:
the dogs not the problem anymore . the janitor has turned to me with an 'unhuman' face while not really turning at all. Part of him knows Im there and is trying to scare me away

MAYATNIK says:
He just feels uneasy, that's all

Parmenion says:
Seems to have calmed now, the dogs a pussycat

MAYATNIK says:
Go back to the main laboratory.........
and find a scientist......... and think that you wish to be where he is at home normally........ to see him there in his house.

Parmenion says:
Hes got a pretty sparse place. He is single or gay. there is another man that walks down the stairs. There is a cat in the home
He sits at the kitchen table eating breakfast and reading the newspaper. From the kitchen table you can see into the hallway and the front door
Hes young with dark black hair and glasses
Theres a toilet (wc) under the stairs
Perhaps I should give him some privacy

MAYATNIK says:
You won't be allowed to intrude......this is for your learning, so you're being permitted to see things.

Parmenion says:
finished in the toilet (where he continued to read the paper) he takes something out of the fridge and feeds the cat
The cat is striped grey and black and wears a collar, he is quite fond of it

MAYATNIK says:
He seems to like the cat.

Parmenion says:
yes he does
he strokes its back after putting down the food

MAYATNIK says:
I saw him bend over, reach out his hand.

Parmenion says:
He goes back to the table now and continues to read his paper

MAYATNIK says:
Think youself into the other man.

Parmenion says:
he is meditating in his room
There is incense burning
He sits cross legged (half lotus?) on the bed
He can hear the noises made by the scientist downstairs and tries to ignore them
The mail sits beside him on the bed, That is why he went down stairs
He is wearing very little or no clothing
Well built man

MAYATNIK says:
What was he wearing when he went downstairs?

Parmenion says:
boxer shorts

MAYATNIK says:
So it appears they are very different to each other

Parmenion says:
very yes
He opens a letter. there is a photo inside of a young boy. his son
He feels sad and happy at the same time
There is also a childs drawing included

MAYATNIK says:
Where does he go for his 'leisure'


I found it very natural and easy to change perspectives and view the same person at different time, viewing ‘outside of time’ as it were.

Parmenion says:
Clay pigeon shooting
walks in the woods
he likes to be alone
quiet man

MAYATNIK says:
This is obviously a countryfied area, with that type of pastime.  Does he work?

Parmenion says:
No, one of the letters he recieved was an acceptance from a job he applied to. "dear sir, we are pleased to inform you...."
I am recalling it from a few minutes ago when i was in his room with him

MAYATNIK says:
You have full control of the situation....since you can 'jump' to earlier parts clearly.

Parmenion says:
I even went to the cats perspective for a few seconds. Never realised how tasty cat food is!

MAYATNIK says:
How did you 'feel' as the cat living there.

Parmenion says:
Very much at ease.
Relaxed and comfortable, well looked after

MAYATNIK says:
A quiet house........ with little disturbance.

Parmenion says:
Yes, very
Thats why the noise from the scientists breakfast bowl could be heard so clearly by the meditating man upstairs

MAYATNIK says:
So, there is no traffic...... I sense a garden path with some wild flowers, a not-neat garden that is countrified.... can you walk around near the house and describe it.


In investigating the house I alternated from walking speed at ground level to flying over the house, to instant change of perspective. It all felt 100% naturall ,like I have always known how to do this

Parmenion says:
a long dirt driveway with gates at the entrance. Old gates that dont hang too well. The house is on the very outskirts of subburbia. A few houses on the estate, all detatched
Fields to the back, trees to the front

MAYATNIK says:
They don't care about it not being 'twee' or Laura Ashley style.......... so they are country people, used to nature.
I see a dark hedge overhanging.... shadowing at one side... a feeling of seclusion, tucked away-ness

Parmenion says:
i sensed that as thick dark trees, Ill investigate

MAYATNIK says:
I sense 'untidiness' that is natural overgrown foliage.
They were quite high

Parmenion says:
there is a rusty wheel barrow at the side of the house, the sun is shing bright to the rear.
The rear garden is overgrown also with some kind of water feature ,a pond? also unkept
There are trees in the back garden

MAYATNIK says:
That would be what I am seeing..... I see a dark green foliage overhanging (there is a dip underneath back into the shadows, and I sense it cool underneath there).

Parmenion says:
Yes, the boundary walls are all overgrown with some kind of hedging
The soil is brown here with little growth, prob due to the lack of sunshine
The meditating man owns a motorcycle

MAYATNIK says:
Probably needs it round there.  Has the 'scientist' got transport?

Parmenion says:
Vine-type leafs grow on the front of the house..........Yes, he has an oldish car
A good car though, looks to be grey
I think its a jaguar from some years back
Clean on the inside except for a little muck on the floormat

MAYATNIK says:
I see rounded edges.... quite a high car...... I saw it as a bluey-grey colour

Parmenion says:
wheels are muddy
He has a cage or two in the boot
I think he also keeps a gun in the car
Black

MAYATNIK says:
Glove compartment

Parmenion says:
there or under the passenger seat

MAYATNIK says:
Is it a stun-gun or a dart-gun?

Parmenion says:
dart gun

MAYATNIK says:
Are there darts in a tin?  Is there a bottle there?

Parmenion says:
Yes, in the glove box

MAYATNIK says:
That's lethal

Parmenion says:
darts are in a square tin

MAYATNIK says:
Is there a bottle of some kind there?

Parmenion says:
yes, same size as a babies bottle


I pictured how this man uses the liquid in the bottle to try sense what it is

Parmenion says:
Its not milk for sure! He dips the dart(s) into the liquid but also has a syringe kept with the darts

MAYATNIK says:
That may be 'antidote' in case he pricks himself.

Parmenion says:
He wears black leather gloves when handling the gun and darts
Parmenion says:
His intent is not good. He is saddened by what is on his mind
Parmenion says:
he's also wearing a grey trenchcoat


I found that I could easily sense emotions, almost as if I was actually ‘being’ this person for a time

MAYATNIK says:
Is the gun 'routine', or because he has to have it.

Parmenion says:
I feel he always has it but never has had to use it in this way before

MAYATNIK says:
Is it connected with his job?

Parmenion says:
No, he has murder (or elimination) in mind
Also the darts are not *dipped* in the liquid ,there is a syringe type suction in the darts
Its something he feels he has to do and that saddens him

MAYATNIK says:
That's professional gear!
Put your hand over the darts........and 'trace' them back to where they came from.


As I did this I was immediately ‘transported’ to a store. This scientist was there as was the shopkeeper. They were quite familiar with each other.

Parmenion says:
a gun store, hunting perhaps
Not on display, he knew what he was looking for
Special order

MAYATNIK says:
You can place your hand over any item and get a flash 'snapshot' with feeling...... if you want to investigate any particular 'picture' then just go into it.

Parmenion says:
he's driving now and the gun is on the passenger seat
I see him picture shooting a fat man in the neck on the steps of his house
He parks outside the house
Then drives on
Not today it seems
He is upset that he's not done what he set out to do

MAYATNIK says:
Do you see someone else involved that he reports back to?

Parmenion says:
a woman, young pretty, long legs

MAYATNIK says:
He meets her somewhere?

Parmenion says:
in a park

MAYATNIK says:
She sits down where he is waiting?

Parmenion says:
No, they walk towards each other, then side by side
She is upset and angry but she holds on to his arm
They sit down together
Dialogue feels something like "I just cant do it" ~~~" You have to, you know you have to"
She is thinking "he's useless, why cant he just do the job"

MAYATNIK says:
Is there a relationship issue here?

Parmenion says:
yes somewhere, definitely


I continued to observe these two individuals for a time but I grew weary and started to draw blanks so I was happy to have Karek break the connection. I had had enough for one night.

 This is how I learned how to ‘go walkabout’ as I like to call it. I can ask Karek to take me to particular places and times any time I wish. I posted the above because I had said I would but I feel that the greatest benefit I have received in the last few weeks has not been this or telepathy, nor any one ‘ability’ alone but what I am discovering about myself and the true nature of existence. I hope that this post will go some way towards shedding light on my position at this time. Nobody 'chose' me for anything. I set my own path in life and I'm beginning to remember what that is.

With best regards,

Dave


P.S: I do apologise for all the bold at the end. Try as I might, I can not seem to rectify it.

There ya go - fixed! [:)]
James.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 07, 2003, 03:18:57
Wow that's a nice post parm...but you don't really go in-depth as to what the obe-like experience is... can you?  It seems complicated but nonetheless like something I would like to enjoy for myself.

Thanks,

~Squeek

Ps- TALK to me next time you're on MSN will ya?!  :D


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: James S on August 07, 2003, 06:36:04
Hi Parmenion,

That was a good post so I thought I'd go through it and find the source of the formatting probs. I threw it into MS Word and did a "find" on the formatting commands so I could clearly see the sequence. There were a couple of missing format commands through the coloured section. This causes a kind of domino effect until you get to the last commands where the code gets all bitter & twisted.

Fixed now![:)]

What you've described as "going walkabout" is akin to (if not exactly like) phasing. Aparently when someone becomes proficient at phasing they can send they're consciousness out of their body, into the RTZ or astral, still be aware of their physical surroundings, and tell people around them what they are seeing. It's quite a talent!

It seems you've gained a great deal Parmenion. [^]

Kind regards,
James.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on August 07, 2003, 09:45:44
Hello

Parmenion, one word, WOW!

Malvina


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 07, 2003, 12:33:01
Hi Parmenion!

Very interesting post and extremely intersting experience (although I wasn't there, I was kind a feeling the pain of the chimps too as I read your post -- got a bad vibe from your description of that place!)

Anyways, you had asked if I could provide some specific questions regarding my concern about how I'm using the pendulum. Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been a bit busy with work. I had posted several questions (back on page 6 of this thread) that no one responded to. Not a big deal, there was a bunch of other stuff going on at the time. But I thought I'd start with those questions and add a few more and see what you think. Below are the questions I had previously posted:

"Ok here are the questions I asked regarding karma and the associated answers. Is this consistent with the information that others are receiving?

Is there such a thing as karma? yes

Does karma involve cause and effect? yes

Do people accrue ‘karmic debt’ based on their thoughts and actions? yes

Do people re-incarnate because of these debts? yes

Is there a way to stop accruing karmic debt? yes

Does the act of doing ‘good deeds’ by helping others accrue karmic debt? yes

Does the act of doing ‘good deeds’ by helping others and not expecting anything in return accrue karmic debt? no

So the way to pay off karmic debt and not accrue anymore is through ‘desireless action’? yes

Is the definition of desireless action doing the right thing purely because it’s the right thing to do? yes

Is this the only way to pay off karmic debt? yes

Now, these responses are consistent with what I perceive karma to be. But its not necessarily consistent with everything that I've read/heard on the subject. So I'm curious what others have received as responses. If this is channeling the truth from one source, then the answers we receive should all be saying the same basic thing."
{End previous post}

My concern about some of the information I'm receiving is because I had follow up questions to these questions specifically about myself that didn't seem realistic with these answers given the answers above. For example:

Do I have a lot of karmic debt left in this life time for which I need to atone? No

Do I have any karmic debt left in this life time for which I need to atone? No

Do I have any karmic debt from all of my past lives that I still need to atone or pay for? No

(Now I was slightly confused by these answers and had begun slightly changing the wording, which to me means the same, but I thought symantics may change the answers).

Is desireless action the only way to rise above karma? Yes

Do I have any karma left to deal with from all of my past lives? No

Am I above karma in this lifetime? Yes
(this thought just popped into my head, although I don't believe its true. So I now begin to 'debate' with the pendulum to try to find an inconsistency in this conversation)

In order to be above karma, I need to think, act and speak with desireless action, correct? Yes

In this lifetime I have thought, acted and spoken in order to gain a specific goal. Yes

So then I do not react with desireless action. Yes

Does the yes mean that you agree I do not act with desireless action? No

Does the yes mean that I do act with desireless action? Yes

Did I create any karma for myself in this lifetime? Yes

So I do have karma that I need to pay off? No

Did I somehow already pay off that karma? Yes

(I list several instances in which I believe that I had acted for a goal -- hence not desireless -- but the pendulum said No to each one of those).

Then I begin to think that maybe my concept of desireless action is different from what it is using. So I add a few more questions:

Do most people currently incarnated on earth act with desireless action? No

Do some people currently incarnated on earth act with desireless action? No

Does anyone currently incarnated on earth act with desireless action? Yes

Does anyone other than myself, currently incarnated on earth act with desireless action? No

Does the Dali Lama act with desireless action? No

Did Gandhi act with desireless action? No

Did Jesus act with desireless action? Yes

Has there been anyone, between my life and Jesus' incarnation, that has been alive on earth and acted with desireless action? No

I then proceed into a brief 'argument' about how that cannot be correct. I get frustrated and put the pendulum down and walk away.

A few days later, I bring up the subject again.

I go through the same questions above, and receive the same answers, except towards the end. Now it answered that Gandhi, Jesus and the Dali Lama do act with desireless action. But it still says that I do as well.

While I am sure that some day, in some lifetime, this will be true. I am also well aware of my faults. I have sometimes acted in this manner. But certainly that is the exception rather than the norm. Could you please let me know if I'm somehow 'phrasing' the questions incorrectly?



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on August 09, 2003, 17:47:53
Greetings everyone!

May I first of all apologise for the tardiness of my reply. I am currently in the process of moving house which, while enjoyable, is taking up much of my time. Also, as I will be ‘in limbo’ for two to three weeks my online time will unfortunately be sporadic until I get settled again. Therefore I must apologise in advance if it takes me a while to reply to any posts.

The ‘walkabout’ I posted above was not complicated to do at all, at least not on my end. Karek did all the necessary and all I had to do was ‘think’ and ‘feel’ my way around. For me it felt like the most natural thing in the world. When Karek broke the connection MAYATNIK asked me how I felt about it and I had to say that it felt completely natural, almost routine.

Hi James,

Thank-you very much indeed for fixing the coding in that post. I was looking at it for so long that my eyes were crossing! I really appreciate it. [:)]


Hi Novice,

You are not ‘phrasing’ the questions incorrectly at all. In fact, your Q&A session is absolutely fantastic! Your persistence with the questioning is superb and your approach to lateral and oblique questioning is commendable. That session can easily pose as a model for one to follow. Excellent!

Way back on page five MAYATNIK posted on the Karma issue. Perhaps the message may have been overlooked as words often mean more it would seem on first glance. I’ll re-post the body of the original text here.

We were particularly impressed to see the initiative by NOVICE in starting his ‘project’ to investigate Karma, and to involve everyone in checking themselves concerning this. The participation of everybody in this will be very beneficial – both in terms of practice, and also the new perspectives that will (as NOVICE hints at) be revealed. I don’t want to say too much about this for the same reason, that I want to avoid the possibility of ‘suggestion’ by giving anything away, so I had intended to remain quietly in the background and observe – only jumping in if there came a necessity to clarify some issue, or give guidance as to other ‘angles’ of suitable questioning that would be helpful to the <Karma project> and and give ideas for lateral and oblique investigations in general with the Pendulum.

However, I notice at the top of page 5 here, that SeekingAnswers has made reference to the Karma project, relating it to his own experience (that is, a ‘personal’ enquiry about the future) in his guides’ training of him thus far:

SeekingAnswers writes:
<<“[this is the]…..meaning of the lesson: i cannot be told what will happen.
i know that falls into the principal of being told what will happen tommorow, but i feel your qeustions about karma and other such big (Hard core) qeustions fall into the same catergory.”>>

While SeekingAnswers is right in every respect, from the position of the ‘status’ assigned to him so far – Karma is a completely separate issue (for reasons that I don’t want to go into here and now, in order to leave the ‘field’ open for free investigation; all will be revealed soon enough) and Karma does not relate to concrete ‘events’ as such.

It is apposite, in relation to the Pendulum or Channeling, to explain a little more about the word ‘status’ that I referred to earlier, since a few words about this will help clarify (and even make questioning easier) this whole issue of ‘knowing’ or “not having the ‘status’ to know” (as the guides put it).

I bring this point up here, because with some reflection the members may be able to formulate lines of questioning regarding Karma that would not otherwise seem obvious, and so be able to gain a better perspective by glimpsing a little of the ‘big picture’.

Basically, people are not allowed to ‘know’ the future, because they are meant to walk into it, not use a ‘map’ to navigate round it ! There is a Higher Purpose, a Grand Plan – but, within the framework of that there is also Free Will. Notwithstanding, all will eventually be according to the Plan by the Weaver of The Tapestry of Life. Within that scheme of affairs, falls the individual lessons that have been set to be learned in each lifetime, along with ‘karma’ (a separate thing, but having links in what we know as ‘time’).

When a channeler (or Pendulum user) has been given sufficient ‘status’, then they are allowed to ‘know’ what has been pre-planned, or will occur by ‘Fate’ as a consequence of the weave; but they are NOT permitted to pass on this information. It is given to such a channeler solely for the purpose of knowing the overall picture concerning the individual or event – and this is because they are passing on other approved information not available otherwise but deemed by the guides necessary to impart at the time. Because the channeler’s job is to avoid giving the ‘answers’ on a plate, but rather giving the maximum of beneficial guidance in the right direction, then Free Will is not interfered with. If people were to be given the ‘answers’ then human nature would design ways to skirt round any problems that would prevent getting to the ‘destination’’; at the very least, they would simply wait until the ‘destination’ came in sight, and ignoring all other options and the myriad avenues of free exploration that are presented for man to explore and experience. So, an integral and essential part of the true Channeler’s training involves many tests along the way, in order to reach each ‘status’ point. At the end of full training, the channeler will have passed all tests given to them, which are rigorous (and, believe me, they get tougher with each stage!); the tests are necessary because of the enormous level of responsibility required in keeping the Secrets of Destiny; as an example, one of the earlier tests when passed confers ‘status’ to access the Akashic Records of a living individual’s life if necessary for whatever purpose the guides may deem appropriate for the ‘vehicle’ (as the channeler is called) to know for the job in hand. Higher status confers deeper and deeper access into the ‘computer’ where all is organized --- and so on.

I hope these insights, that I am permitted to reveal at this time, will help clarify points which otherwise may be clouded.


There exist certain lessons that must be learned by the individual on his/her own. There can be guidance along the way but on the whole the individual must make the discovery themselves. You are most definitely ‘on route’ to your destination with your excellent questioning. Your perception is expanding as you continue to investigate and will continue to do so until you can see the full ‘picture’. As you start to see things in a different light more and more is being revealed to you.

Karma has more to do with society than the individual; it is not as is depicted in books. An individual can make tremendous leaps when they choose to follow their own path and not be a part of the herd. The topic of Karma is an excellent one to investigate not only for the discovery factor but also for the alternate avenues of investigation that will need to be ventured down in order to get the ‘big picture’. It shows exactly how to use the pendulum not only to discover the truth but also to increase ones awareness and perception.

I would recommend this as a topic to be investigated as a group effort; in particular it may be of benefit to people who may be having difficulty thinking of questions to ask the pendulum. If several people were to investigate Karma independently and post their results here, not only would it enable one to see angles of approach they may have overlooked, it would also make for a very interesting discussion indeed!

With very best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Arthelion on August 22, 2003, 12:47:19
Hi, everybody!
This is my first post and I'm still learning English, but I'll do my best.
At first I want to say a big thank you to MAYATNIK, Parmenion and
everybody involved in this pendulum stuff. I've read whole this forum
and also that article by MAYATNIK and finaly decided to try it.
I started yesterday with give me yes/no and it worked! It also
moved circular when I wanted. [:O]I was very excited, because it moved exactly
as I asked. But I don't know if I use it correctly, because the answers
are very strange. I don't remember all the q/a but many were contradictory (sp?)
here are some of them:  (I mostly ask in Czech so these are translations)

Are you my guide? NO
Do I have a guide? NO [:(] (surprise for me)
Does MAYATNIK have a guide? YES   (I was wandering if it isn't stuck in one direction)
Am I speaking to my Higher self? YES
These answers were allright I think.

I then tried to guess what will my grandmother prepare for me for lunch.
When I got to my grannny, I found it was wrong.[:(]
I also know that my pendulum does not have a good shape (it's a small
sword I wore on my neck) so I tried to investigate what a new one should look like
(like Edi did on page 5). It told me it would be some kind of crystal and
I should search on net (after many questions). I was online for about
two hours and I found only some sideral pendulums which certainly didn't please my eye.
Also I am going to buy a new computer soon so I asked some questions.
It didn't move. I asked if it should answer me something about computers: NO
I then asked: Is it true that you don't understand computers? STRONGEST NO I've seen so far![:D]

Today I tried if it knows directions. I asked it to show me North-South swing and
it was precisely what I thought - I don't if it was right because I don't have a compass.
Then I asked it to show me directions of two towns which I knew and that was accurate.
But when I asked it to show me a city which I only guessed the direction and it showed
me exactly what I guessed but when I checked the atlas it was about 30 degrees wrong.

Then I played a game when I threw a dice behind me and I asked it the number
(is in range 1-3 - Yes, is it 1 - No, is it 2 - Yes etc...) and only one
of five attempt was good. The second attempt was good, so I enthusiasticly
tried again. The swings were quite strong so I thought it was correct but none
of the next attempts went right. I asked:
Was that your fault? Yes
Am I using the pendulum correctly? Yes
Will there be more good attempts after I have more practise? No [V](big dissapointment)

I think this is long enough and you know my problem. I am not sure if I am using
the pendulum correctly and unfortunatedly I'm going on holiday tommorow for a week
and I probably won't have access to internet so I hope there will be some quick
answer. Please ask your guides and pendulum what could be my problem.
Thank you for your help.
With love and respect[8)]
Arthelion


BTW: Could anyone check with your guide or pendulum what it says about 27th August?
There are some prophecies about the rise of a beast or anti-christ[}:)](www.exodus2006.com) and I (and certainly many others) would like to know what is really gonna happen.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Parmenion on August 22, 2003, 21:19:31
Greetings Arthelion,

Welcome to the forums and may I add that your English is better than some who have it as their native language.[:)]

You have gotten off to a great start with the pendulum and your positivity will bring you far. You are using the pendulum correctly; there is no fault there. I see by the questions and answers that you posted that your ‘problem’ as it were lies in your questioning of the pendulum. Whilst your attitude is great, the pendulum simply will not work if used in this manner, which has been seen time and again throughout the many years the pendulum has been in use. Looking at the answers you received you can see that the pendulum is trying to show you this.
quote:
Was that your fault? Yes
Am I using the pendulum correctly? Yes
Will there be more good attempts after I have more practise? No  (big dissapointment)


The pendulum deliberately gave you ‘wrong answers’ to show you that it does not work in this manner. You were indeed using the pendulum correctly and the answers would still be the same with more practice as it is the questioning OF the pendulum rather than questioning WITH the pendulum that is the issue here.

Your search for your perfect pendulum will come to fruition soon if you follow your intuition and where you are guided to look. The pendulum can be made of most anything but I understand the desire to have one that feels special to you. In your search you might like to try the following…

Holding the pendulum in the hand you do not write with have a map open in front of you. Say to the pendulum that you wish to search for your perfect pendulum and say that you are going to point to different places on the map. Ask the pendulum if when you are pointing to the place that you should begin your search in, the pendulum would signal this with a YES movement. Point with the index finger of your writing hand to various streets on the map, moving slowing from place to place until the pendulum responds. From there you can further define your search if you wish. This pointing ‘method’ can be used for a multitude of tasks; this is just one example.


I have not looked into your question regarding the 27th of August as I wanted to post this as soon as possible to reply to you before you go on holidays. I could say that I’ll look into it when you come back but the 27th will have come and gone by then.[:)]
 Enjoy the vacation!

With best regards,

Dave


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Arthelion on August 23, 2003, 06:20:32
Thank you Parmenion, I'll try what you've told me. It seems I WILL have acces to internet so I will be able to correspond with you. But I have to leave now.
Thank you,
Arthelion


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on August 23, 2003, 08:41:24

ZETA  NOW "FRIENDLY"-TALKING TO
Two AP MEMBERS IN  'Joint Venture'* !

*Pleaidians assist in telepathic link-up to Zeta

Yes - it is true!  And now, the truth shall be known more and more about the Zeta, and what they are here for..... because, following an 'incident' last Sunday night (17 August, 2003 - a date to remember!) that 6 members of the Astral Pulse were witness to in a Multi-Chat on MSN Messenger, the Zeta are now seeking "Friendly Interchange" with humans in a Joint Venture with the Pleiadians, who have arranged in the last few days a special 'hook-up' with the Zeta for Pleiadian telepathy students here on the Astral Pulse to talk one-to-one with a Zeta Guide-Representative who will be available to answer all questions.

The 'incident' that had led to this decision being made by the Zeta following discussion they had with the Pleiadians was concerning a Zeta guide who had broken a rule of 'etiquette' by encouraging her charge (a non-member, invited into the 'chat' session) to Astral Project in what was meant to be a telepathy discussion group.  The Zeta guide had acted with the best of intentions, but had not checked with her supervisor-guide, nor had she taken heed of the fact that it was a gathering of Pleiadian guides and their charges.  The result of the Zeta guide's enthusiasm to seek to pursuade (via her charge) other members of our group to Astral Project at that time (the normal Zeta 'method' of contact, rather than by telepathy) led to confusion within our cyberspace gathering, and in fact some distress of those members present due to the shock of the unanticipated turn of events that had culminated in a strong Astral Projection felt even in cyberspace.

During the time of the incident my PC crashed (something it is very prone to doing, but on this occasion at the very worst time) and I lost contact with those in the group for about a minute.  In thiat time I realized on speaking to my guide, Karek, that things were not as we had planned.  I requested communication with Shea (the Zeta guide now in that group) but Shea declined telepathic communication without reason given (and that is a further breach of rules of cross-species etiquette in the Higher Realms) but I became aware through Karek that Shea was continuing with the purpose of an Astral Projection for the group, harmless in itself, but disturbing since not requested.  Karek then contacted the Zeta at the highest level, and Shea was immediately reprimanded by her supervisor and the Astral Projection was terminated.  Within seconds I had received the equivalent of a telepathic email from the Zeta wishing to apologise publically for this breach of etiquette by their guide.  I then typed what I'd received and proceeded to explain in brief to the group in the multi-chat what had transpired.

While in itself only a breach of etiquette, the Zeta take such things very seriously and top-level discussions then took place  with the Pleiadians who explained how I was training certain members of the Astral Pulse who the Pleiadian guides had considered 'ready' for telepathy.  The Zeta, who promised that such a breach would not occur again, were keen to explore possibilities of co-operation with the Pleiadians for selected members of our telepathy group to have "Friendly Interchange" with the Zeta, which would be good for the members and good for the Zeta who feel, as the Pleiadians do also, that humans will benefit from knowing more about the them and their purpose here at this time with the Earth Project the Zeta are already working on with the Pleiadians and other off-planet species of Higher Beings.  So it was, that a new milestone was reached last Sunday with the opportunity now that will be ongoing for humans to have contact in "information sessions"  with the Zeta as never before, and which was largely hitherto confined to such as Nancy of Zetatalk.  Thus, 17 August, 2003 will go down in Galactic History, as a brand new joint venture with humans.

I am pleased to be able to announce here, that the Pleiadian guides have selected EDI and PARMENION to be the first to talk at length with the Zeta - and those two events (which I carefully kept independent and separate from each other with no interaction between them) were recorded on MSN Messenger exactly word for word as they took place.

The system employed in the telepathy training sessions is what will be used here.  That is, when a guide is speaking to the person via telepathy then the person types what they 'hear' in their head using the initial letter of the guide's name followed by a colon and then what has actually been received.  In the case of the Zeta guide-representative we used "Z:" to indicate.  To further clarity and ease of reading, I have for the purposes of this article, specially formatted the guide's text-lines as follows.....

----- telepathic person <--- here EDI or PARMENION.
----- P: Perena speaking <--- Edi's guide
----- K: Karek speaking <-- Parmenion's guide.
----- (Karek at the moment working jointly with Parmenion and me)
----- Z: Zeta speaking <--whichever Zeta is there.
-----Myself (MAYATNIK) speaking


(I am also in touch at all times during telepathic training sessions with the person's own guide so that I can work directly and effectively in the training of the person by me following their guide's instructions via a 'private line' telepathically - and the same procedure is extended to include the Zeta here, who I am also in constant touch with during the course of the person's conversation in my 'monitoring' capacity of the event).

Below you will find the two transcripts, made public for the first time.  EDI was the very first human to communicate with the Zeta in this venture, so naturally he comes before Parmenion in order.  But Parmenion made an excellent interviewer of the Zeta when his turn came.  And, needless to say, the Zeta are highly delighted with the outcome from this first beginning and it will now become incorporated in future Zeta-Pleiadian co-operation to bring information to humans by answering  questions in this "Friendly Interchange" using telepathy thanks to the Pleiadians facilitating hook-ups with the Zeta computer by arrangement.


*EDI* talks with the Zeta


EDI says:
Hello Edward.
MAYATNIK says:
Hello Edi.  How are you now?
EDI says:
Perena asks me to tell you from her:"Edi would really like to be shown something in order to gain more confidence".
EDI says:
And I'm still a bit afraid of expressing this myself, as in the first night
MAYATNIK says:
Perena has told me what she would like me to do with you, in a session.  And it will expand your knowledge at the same time.
EDI says:
I felt this night right to ask about it.
MAYATNIK says:
Yes...... it will be very good for you.
I am trying to clear another window, then we can start the session.... hang on.......

MAYATNIK says:
When will it be quiet in your house for this session Edi?
EDI says:
It is quiet now - everyone is sleeping, and normally no one comes looking for the computer. My mother goes to the toilet every 3 hours, the last time 20 minutes ago, so I should be undisturbed now.
MAYATNIK says:
That is good.  We are nearly ready now.
EDI says:
I am thankful for whatever will come and appreciate the time you put into this.
MAYATNIK says:
It is your time for these things.  The guides choose the time.
MAYATNIK says:
Finally.........the decks are cleared..... and we can now be undisturbed.
EDI says:
Okay
MAYATNIK says:
Has Perena told you anything about the Zeta?
EDI says:
No
MAYATNIK says:
Do you know anything about them yourself?
EDI says:
I know they are an alien race, and what I read in your posts on AP... Just an alien species. And I know zetatalk.com
MAYATNIK says:
Well, essentially....they are the ones who fly the 'flying saucers'. Also, they are different from the Pleiadians in the way they talk.  They are very 'etiquette' conscious, and like 'correctness' and 'politeness' at all times.  Also, they tend to be very 'work minded', always 'busy' doing something....going somewhere or coming back from somewhere to go somewhere else to do another job.
MAYATNIK says:
Can you picture them from that description?
EDI says:
Yes, I get a feeling about them
MAYATNIK says:
that's good....because you need to get a 'diplomatic' feel about how they see themselves.
MAYATNIK says:
they are very interested now in talking to people, so that humans can get to know them better - and I was given a small list of those selected by the Pleiadians who are now jointly working with them on this particular venture..... for those humans to take part in conversation with a Zeta guide-representive, and who I am going to help introduce to them......starting with you.
EDI says:
I'm so interested in other species and cultures... I thought about this before.
EDI says:
I wanted to know how other species live their life - what they do all they, their culture, their people, and so on.
MAYATNIK says:
Well, this cropped up as a very practical issue last night, as you will be aware from what I have told you about the 'incident' that occurred in a multi-chat... and which has now brought about this opportunity for you to talk to the Zeta, following joint Zeta-Pleiadian agreement for this to take place under the supervision of your Pleiadian guide who is making all necessary arrangements here
MAYATNIK says:
You may talk about anything that you like regarding the Zeta......and also about such things as the so-called 'abductions' that the Zeta do.  Feel free in your questioning.  All that is required is to be 'diplomatic' at all times since this is standard galactic convention in telepathy, and have an obvious air of sincere politeness in addressing them.  They will respond always in a polite manner.
MAYATNIK says:
Ok?
EDI says:
Yes
EDI says:
I'm a bit nervous, but I have courage and trust my guidance
MAYATNIK says:
That's all you have to do.............it will be easy.... First we are going to get good contact with your own guide (the Zeta have their guide-representative standing by) and then Perena will connect you (jsut like a telephone link-up) when she feels you are comfortable...so we'll talk first with Perena.
MAYATNIK says:
Contact Perena now please, Edi
EDI says:
I am talking with her now.
MAYATNIK says:
(type everything you say, and everything said to you......use Z:  for Zeta and P: to preced whatever your guide Perena says)
EDI says:
P: Concentrate on my voice Edi
EDI says:
P: This is good
EDI says:
P: I will hook you up when you are ready
EDI says:
Okay, I think we can begin
MAYATNIK says:
I'll just watch for now.
EDI says:
P: Here we go...
EDI says:
Z: Hello Edi
EDI says:
I am pleased to meet you.
EDI says:
Z: The pleasure is on my side, too.
EDI says:
Z: We are interested in talking to humans, and I think you will be interested in talking to us, too.
EDI says:
Please understand that this is still uncommon for me and I need a few minutes to get familiar with it. I would like to talk about what is going on with Earth at the moment and in the near future.
EDI says:
Z: I understand. What area are you interested in?
EDI says:
I learned that several species oversee the evolution at the Earth at the moment. I would be interested in the role your species, the Zeta, play here.
EDI says:
Z: We are here to bring information to the human race in our ways, which are different from those of other races.
EDI says:
What is this information about, and how do you get it "down" on earth?
EDI says:
I learned that the species involved use something we would call a "computer" to access this world and to interact with humans.
EDI says:
Z: Yes, we use what you call a "computer" to bring information to the consciousness of humans. But we also use it to gather information to see how everything progesses, and what actions to take best.
EDI says:
Z: Our link to the human mind is made by altering it's state of consciousness - you call it trance, astral projection, meditation - even drug experiences are what whe work with.
EDI says:
Z: The overall goal is to awaken the humans to their full potential, to help them get rid of their barriers.
EDI says:
Z: And to finally evolve and take the next evolutionary leap.
EDI says:
Is your computer able to control Astral Projections?
EDI says:
Z: Yes. What humans can do by themselves, we can assist with our computer.
EDI says:
Z: We can take them out of their bodies if they are willing to, or if they sleep, and give them information this way.
EDI says:
P: Edi would be very interested in seeing how this works.
EDI says:
Z: It is not difficult to do.
EDI says:
I have been practicing Astral Projection, but with no big success. Is it possible that you show me how you computer does this?
EDI says:
Z: It does require physical relaxation, which you do not have sufficiently at the moment.
EDI says:
If it'll be possible to talk to you later, I would be glad to talk about this again when I am in a more comfortable position.
EDI says:
Z: You may contact us at any time.
EDI says:
Another topic I have some questions about is: abductions.
EDI says:
Z: This is something commonly misperceived.
EDI says:
The overall image is that people get abducted, suffer from pain, get back on earth and tell horror stories of aliens.
EDI says:
Z: There are two causes for this wrong image. First, the human mind often is not ready to accept what it perceives and makes up a story in his mind. When someone doesn't believe that everything was fine, he may construct something which fits his view of the world. This is the case when people are afraid of everything which has to do with aliens, when they are following the image they are given from their governments via the media.
EDI says:
Z: Second, many of the "abduction accounts" are simply faked to provoke fear.
EDI says:
What does in fact happen when someone gets abducted, taken on an extraterrestrial ship?
EDI says:
Z: One thing is: the genetic material and the state of the evolving body is checked, in order that further planning can be done, and to see how everything develops.
EDI says:
Z: Then, information is given to individuals. They may not remember it consciously, but it will affect their behaviour, it is like an electromagnetic imprint which is influencing it's environment.
EDI says:
Z: This is information about: what is going to happen with earth and the humans; what the world governments are up to; what personal things the individual should address to further his growth and the growth of his environment.
EDI says:
Z: Note that only few of these "abductions" are done by using physical ships. In fact, we work much with people while they sleep.
EDI says:
I remember a "dream" from some days ago - I was in a distant place when I was being invited to an alien ship by 2 creatures. Are the Zetas in any way related to this "dream"?
EDI says:
Z: It was not we who took you on the ship in this dream.
EDI says:
P: It was a Pleiadian scene you were in.
EDI says:
Z: Do you have more questions?
EDI says:
There are many things I am interested in. For now: Can you tell me of the role you are playing in this earth scenario?
EDI says:
Z: I cannot tell you too much now, but you can know that I am working in the area of communication with humans. Direct communication. There are many organisational things to do in the background, and many things which are not directly related to communicating face-to-face (or mind-to-mind) with humans.
EDI says:
Z: I am a guide for some humans, giving them information and helping them to grow.
EDI says:
I thank you for this information.
EDI says:
I am curious about your people. I know that you are overseeing the evolution of the earth, but what is the whole of your people doing? Is every Zeta being watching the Earth, or do you too have cities, people who work and do their duties, build houses and live a "normal" life?
EDI says:
Z: We do originate from a distant part of this universe, where we have planets with cities on it, where "normal" life takes place, as you call it. But everyone is aware of what is happening here. A portion of our people came to Earth to assist actively in this development.
EDI says:
I would really enjoy meeting end experiencing your people and your culture.
EDI says:
Z: You will, if you want to. You can ask your guide to contact us at any time, so we can either talk or later show you what you are interested in by using our methods.
EDI says:
I thank you for this generous offer.
EDI says:
Z: We will be glad to establish a friendly flowing of information between our species.
EDI says:
Do you have any questions, or something I could answer you from my point of view?
MAYATNIK says:
(I got cut off - your last message was:
Do you have any questions, or something I could answer you from my point of view?

EDI says:
This talk was quite exhausting .. a bit "formal" and rigid maybe
MAYATNIK says:
Did I miss anything when I was cut off?  There was no answer after your question I repasted above......so no end to the conversation apperently ???
EDI says:
The answer was
"Z: No, thank you very much. As we are looking from the "outside" to the "inside", we can see and know more than you can imagine."
EDI says:
Then i said "Then, as I don't have any questions left myself, I think it's time to finish this conversation. I thank you ver much for being able to talk to you and for the information I received."
EDI says:
and
"Z: It was a pleasure to talk to you. I wish you a good night."
EDI says:
(cut&paste doesn't work, but I can type fast)
MAYATNIK says:
That is excellent....... I just missed all that......there was no 'edi is typing' message on my screen, and nothing came through.... so that is now everything in the converstion, for the log.  good.
EDI says:
I will like to learn more about these computers and see what they do
MAYATNIK says:
they are fascinating....and unlike ours they don't break down
EDI says:
Yes... telepathy is nice, but I am missing some vivid colours, something happening, something to see, if you know what I mean... I'd like to see the computer doing something with me.
MAYATNIK says:
We'll see.
EDI says:
What do you think of this conversation?
MAYATNIK says:
The Zeta work a different way.......their 'operating system' is different, so they will tend to want to use their 'methods' to show people things, especially if a person has a Zeta guide......and which they have offered to do, for you also even though your guide is Pleiadian..... You can however 'see' these things by also asking Perena to 'connect' you (that is the Pleiadian system - to 'take you' there, on invitation - and it is faster than the Zeta computer, in fact virtually instant)... so all that is open to you.....'in full colour' as you put it.
MAYATNIK says:
Ask Perena about this.
EDI says:
P: I can hook up your consciousness to different places via our computer.
MAYATNIK says:
As for the conversation....it was excellent......you had a very good 'rapport' there, and I was getting good reports from the Zeta also on this.  They are highly pleased with the conversation.
EDI says:
The voice was low and in the beginning a bit .. metallish  But I got used to it quickly.
EDI says:
I sortof "see" the zeta voice in the lower left part of my mind, and perena is in the upper right.
EDI says:
That's how I can distinguish easily... everyone has his space in my mind.
MAYATNIK says:
Yes.  That splits it well.
EDI says:
I just can't think of a place I'd like to be connected to... hmm
MAYATNIK says:
The Zeta are quite 'formal' sounding in their conversation......so now you have experienced another off-planet culture that is very old.
EDI says:
Uncommon, but nice.
MAYATNIK says:
they are very much the Mr Spock of the Enterprise type personality (they don't mind me saying this...lol)
EDI says:
Hehe  =)
EDI says:
Everyone has to play his role.
MAYATNIK says:
The reports I was getting from the Zeta side during that conversation were that they are now planning for more of this type of communication using telepathy with those who are Pleiadian trained (such as yourself) and in that way build a very friendly interchange of information between humans and themselves.
EDI says:
That will be very nice
MAYATNIK says:
You are the FIRST in this new venture!
EDI says:
Well, I'm not too excited about it, but I really appreciate it
EDI says:
(excitement is something I am missing since the beginning )
MAYATNIK says:
It has been done before, obviously - I did it myself when I was training......but it has never been done in a 'formal' sense as part of a program (such as we are undertaking with the Pleiadians here)
EDI says:
I understand
MAYATNIK says:
Why do you think the excitement is missing.
EDI says:
Ah okay, it is not missing, it just isn't there
EDI says:
I just accept what comes
EDI says:
Without big turmoil
MAYATNIK says:
Do you feel you are somehow now 'intergalactic' in your perception, and that it is becoming as easy as breathing.
MAYATNIK says:
?
EDI says:
Yes, I feel that I am opening to a much bigger world around me
EDI says:
Which I will want to explorer with all senses and tools which are available to me
MAYATNIK says:
The telephone that you first got was exciting the first time.....but now you treat it as normal, and even necessary, in 'everyday' communication....and that you are concentrating more now on what can be done with it, rather than the 'facility' itself.
EDI says:
Exactly.
MAYATNIK says:
The Zeta and Perena wish me to ask you may I post this conversation with the Zeta on the site...at the appropriate time.....since this will greatly help the understanding of humans regarding the Zeta
MAYATNIK says:
Perena knows all about this, so ask her please.
EDI says:
P: There will be more information on the board regarding the different species, and who play what role in what is to come.
EDI says:
I agree that it's posted at the appropriate time if it will help.
EDI says:
It is good.. over time, this will grow really big.
MAYATNIK says:
Well, I shall have moved on before too long...and others will be coming in to further it.
MAYATNIK says:
Now..... As you have been told by the Zeta guide-representative......you are welcome to talk to them at any time, and even experience for yourself how they do things - but as they have said, that is more suitable for when you are really relaxed, or in bed...  For our purposes online especially, here and in any training sessions, the Pleiadian system of instant connection is more appropriate and of course is ideal for Messenger....typing what you see.......
EDI says:
P: Maybe we can show Edi how to use this instant connection, if you like to.
MAYATNIK says:
(Unlike the standard Zeta system of AP-ing and 'trance', you would be fully conscious and at the keyboard while that is occurring.....like Parenion's transcript of his similar experience that he posted some time back)
MAYATNIK says:
That would be a good idea Perena....... because it is really very easy, as Parmenion demonstrated.
EDI says:
And I would like it very much, probably.
MAYATNIK says:
probably is an understatement Edi...as Parmenion would tell you.  It will be a very good experience if Perena will do this for you.
EDI says:
P: He is just laying a conversation on ice so he is free.. then we can begin
MAYATNIK says:
Ok.
EDI says:
P: Good.. we can begin
EDI says:
P: Type what I say, and what you experience
EDI says:
P: Ask me to hook you up to the place I want you to see (it's normal to ask for it, so we do it here)
EDI says:
Perena, please hook me up to the place you want me to see.
EDI says:
I experience just a bit a cold feeling in my palms.. nothing else
EDI says:
P: You have to allow yourself to go
EDI says:
P: Just give me some time
EDI says:
P: And keep your eyes open.
EDI says:
I experience... just the room I am sitting in, my normal surroundings.
EDI says:
Typing this into the computer
EDI says:
Hearing the sound of the computer fans
MAYATNIK says:
Try to see the image before you......sense it.. the area that you are 'in' (not the room...... where the image is) and allow yourself to expand your consciousness to see and feel it, be there
MAYATNIK says:
Try to see and be with the image before you
EDI says:
Like with my physical eyes, or in my mind?
MAYATNIK says:
It is your 'inner' eye......your true consciousness (your physical eyes simply connect to your body)
EDI says:
I can sense something... a faint image in my inner eye
EDI says:
P: What color do you see?
EDI says:
White
EDI says:
I feel something moving to the left
MAYATNIK says:
(defucus your eyes..and let yourself 'see' the new surroundings)
MAYATNIK says:
that's good < --- * Perena had confirmed progress ot me 'privately' *
MAYATNIK says:
you can turn your physical head...... or sense your consciousness turning its head.
EDI says:
a strange feeling is there, but i don't see much
MAYATNIK says:
then go by the 'feeling', sense it that way
MAYATNIK says:
listen for any 'voces' (they will be telepathic) ..'look' to see where they are coming from, look for a figure
EDI says:
it's like someone waving a hand there... trying to get my attention
MAYATNIK says:
that's it....you've got it !
EDI says:
in a long brown robe
MAYATNIK says:
you're there !
EDI says:
I'm not quite sure of the surroundings
EDI says:
P: Describe
EDI says:
A conveyor belt to the left?
EDI says:
P: no.. look again
EDI says:
The ground starts to get green
EDI says:
like grass
EDI says:
in the middle of the image there's something brown...
EDI says:
like a hut maybe
EDI says:
P: Yes
EDI says:
The person in the robe is giving me signs to come to him
EDI says:
P: Just use your will and go there
EDI says:
Am I there with a body?
EDI says:
P: Look down..
EDI says:
I see my body
EDI says:
P: It depends on where you are if the others can see you
EDI says:
The person says "Nice to meet you"
EDI says:
I ask "Who are you?"
EDI says:
He: "I am just someone living in this hut..."
EDI says:
"Did you know that I'll come?"
EDI says:
He: "No, it took me totally by surprise.. not many people are passing here"
EDI says:
Mayatnik, am I doing it right?
MAYATNIK says:
You're doing very well indeed.
MAYATNIK says:
Perena will guide you
EDI says:
I hear birds in the trees ... a river...
EDI says:
P: Look around you - either turn your head or use 360° awareness, whatever you like
EDI says:
There's a forest around the wood... The hut is built at the edge of a clearing
EDI says:
a forest around the _hut_ I mean.
EDI says:
P: Ask the person if he can teach you something
EDI says:
He: "If you like to, yes. Follow me into the hut"
EDI says:
he goes to the door, opens it
EDI says:
it's not so dark inside, there's a violet light.. violet and red
EDI says:
P: Enter
EDI says:
P: What is this light like?
EDI says:
it's on the walls... and crossing the room in solid beams.. or like a liquid
EDI says:
red lines on violet background
EDI says:
He: "Imagining being in a field of this colors has a certain effect on you"
EDI says:
P: Feel how it is like
EDI says:
it gives strength and determination
EDI says:
P: Exactly!
EDI says:
He: "You can summon such a field around yourself whenever you need to accomplish something... when you have to be strong and stable"
EDI says:
I'm back on the outside
EDI says:
the man said goodbye ...
EDI says:
P: Raise yourself over the scenery and look
EDI says:
I see big forests... a river to the right.. mountains in the distance.. a beautiful scenery
EDI says:
P: Okay, this is it.
EDI says:
P: We're done with this little excursion.
EDI says:
Okay ...
EDI says:
This was ... nice
EDI says:
I expected to see more vividly before my eyes... it's still faint before my inner eye, but that will develop I think.
EDI says:
P: You will grow into it
MAYATNIK says:
This was a first time....and it is like using muscles for the first time.....they become second-nature after they've been used......but just take a few times to get used to... next 'visit' will be easier.
EDI says:
Okay, I'll train with Perena.
MAYATNIK says:
Excellent.
EDI says:
it's probably the same as with telepathy
MAYATNIK says:
It is
EDI says:
thank you for this
MAYATNIK says:
You have an additional 'facility' now
EDI says:
P: I was training before with Edi to see images and short scenes in his mind this way, and so prepared him.
EDI says:
Good... when I'm in bed I'll ask about out-of-body exploration with the Zetas... I'm curious about everything
MAYATNIK says:
You did that well Edi.... now you know how to let yourself 'go' there
EDI says:
Yes.. it's a reality which is always there, but my inner eye is so undeveloped because I never paid attention to it.
EDI says:
P: Exactly... when you astral project, you have only these inner senses without the disturbances of the physical body, that's why it may seem easier.
MAYATNIK says:
Even the 'awareness' to see your surroundings, and to move within them became clearer how to do it as you went on..... became instinctive.
EDI says:
P: Either you AP, or you go there in your mind while in your body... in the end, it's the same.
EDI says:
Intent is everything there.. I just "do" it
EDI says:
and I "am" it
MAYATNIK says:
That's all there is to it.......just to 'do' it.
MAYATNIK says:
distance, even where in time, is no different.....you just 'go'.
EDI says:
I'm getting a hold on all this non-physical things ... now I just need training to percieve more clearly
MAYATNIK says:
Perena will train you.
EDI says:
And I would really like to learn techniques to shut of the physical senses to go there and see only with the inner senses
MAYATNIK says:
I am here to help you get started, that's all.
EDI says:
P: I and the Zetas will assist you in this
EDI says:
You're the kick-start which get's everything running
MAYATNIK says:
I'm the Cranking-Handle.
EDI says:
Yes...
MAYATNIK says:
I've done all these things that you are beginning to learn about now.... so I can look from "above" and co-ordinate with the guides.....
EDI says:
It must be wonderful to see and live clearly in these realms
MAYATNIK says:
I'm able to check what you are seeing (go there myself) and also talk to any guides Zeta or Pleiadian and receive instructions from them what to do next, or to let them do (such as letting Perena explain rather than me in places)
EDI says:
I see... that's a good set-up indeed
MAYATNIK says:
That is how the tuition works so fast
EDI says:
Seems like those species got a well devised plan =)
MAYATNIK says:
Messenger is a good 'format' for the initial stages...because the typing actually helps speed up the confidence.
EDI says:
Yes.. every night on MSN with you is a quantum leap forward.
EDI says:
And Perena gets me to type things even if I am shy of expressing it myself
MAYATNIK says:
I am here for when the guides want me to do something....when a person is ready for the next 'stage'.
MAYATNIK says:
We shall pick the right time for me to post your telepathy with the Zeta, for the maximum interest of members.
EDI says:
P: We'll see when it fits best
MAYATNIK says:
The guides keep a careful check on what is happening in the threads.
EDI says:
That's no surprise
EDI says:
I wonder if they have a internet dial-up on their mothership .. lol
MAYATNIK says:
Ask Perena..... lol
EDI says:
She says
"no need to dial in.." ... they can access it easily with their technology
MAYATNIK says:
Exactly !
MAYATNIK says:
(no dial-up fees either)
EDI says:
lol
EDI says:
This is where I want to lead humanity.. internet without dial-up fees!
MAYATNIK says:
When you were doing your hook-up with the Zeta......the Zeta all had a connection with Messenger, and were following the typing as you wrote !  You didn't know you were reaching a mass Zeta audience!
EDI says:
Oh my god! =)
MAYATNIK says:
They said, "Don't tell him until afterwards.....but we are all following this with great interest"
EDI says:
That is really nice
EDI says:
If you had told me I had been nervous... I played in a theater group once, I know how it feels to be on stage
MAYATNIK says:
The galactic Zeta 'audience' loved you......they are very interested and caring about human beings.
MAYATNIK says:
As you get more advanced, you too will be able to get instant 'traffic' and the equivalent of emails from different sources, while you are doing something else.
EDI says:
I already imagined something like that... as Perena can't always give me something, e.g. when I'm not listening, busy or whatever.. I can at some time ask "Perena, do I have new mail?" .. Sounds really funny.
MAYATNIK says:
This is it !
EDI says:
Intuition finds its ways, it seems
MAYATNIK says:
Karek will say to me, "Don't bother watching the News..there's nothing on much till later tonight.  We'll let you know"
EDI says:
That's nice
MAYATNIK says:
Also both Zeta and Pleiadians monitor all the TV and radio transmissions.
EDI says:
Interesting.. I'll have much to find, I'm eager to learn
EDI says:
This night has revealed itself to be very inspiring and productive
EDI says:
P: As I told you this evening.
MAYATNIK says:
Why don't you ask Perena now........about the TV... and what is 'monitored' and why.
EDI says:
P: We are mostly interested in the news - what gets presented to the broad masses by their leaders.
EDI says:
P: We also look at how the other entertaining movies etc. affect people's mind
EDI says:
P: What emotions are being provoked
EDI says:
P: We need to be informed because we want to heal the media conditioning... the rigid mind-set which is enforced by watching TV.
EDI says:
P: Ideas and emotions are transmitted by the media.
EDI says:
Okay....
EDI says:
Well, I think it'll be time for me to go to bed.. I'd like to finish before my parents get up
EDI says:
P: And he desperately needs to go the toilet =)
MAYATNIK says:
It has been very productive tonight.
EDI says:
Yes... everything.
MAYATNIK says:
I shall make a drink now, before my next 'appointment schedule'.
EDI says:
I'm (as always) really thankful for what you show me
MAYATNIK says:
Now you can continue those things with Perena.....and you have the Zeta also.  So, many new horizons are opening up now.
EDI says:
I'll take the time to explore those
EDI says:
I'll retreat to the mountains again tomorrow... and this time, I'll be alone and undisturbed.
MAYATNIK says:
You get some much deserved sleep now.
EDI says:
I'll enjoy it... as I know that learning goes on while I sleep
EDI says:
I'm not really tired, but sleeping is good nevertheless
MAYATNIK says:
It does indeed.........and the great thing is....that you can talk to Perena (or the Zeta now, whenever Perena connects you) while you're in bed relaxed.........
EDI says:
Exactly
EDI says:
That's what I'm going to do now
EDI says:
I'll enjoy having lots of aliens in my bed
MAYATNIK says:
lol......... Auf Wiedersehen !  Guten Nacht Edi !


*PARMENION* talks with the Zeta


Parmenion says:
Good morning!
Parmenion says:
You get any sleep?
MAYATNIK says:
Not yet.
Parmenion says:
Sooooo what's the Plan of Action?
MAYATNIK says:
How are you doing with karek?
Parmenion says:
Ok
Parmenion says:
Talking every day, many times a day
Parmenion says:
I'm no longer doubting or worrying about it, I just keep chatting
MAYATNIK says:
that's good.
MAYATNIK says:
What does Karek say at this moment, about the situation regarding the Zeta and so forth?
Parmenion says:
Is it time for me to talk?.........
K: "Definately"
MAYATNIK says:
Then can Karek just tell you briefly what we can do this morning?
Parmenion says:
'hook-up' to the Zeta where I will talk with one or more of them
MAYATNIK says:
The Zeta are standing by, and are happy to have a "friendly interchange" with you, and answer any questions. Have you got a number of questions already?
Parmenion says:
I would say no....but theres plenty of questions 'up in the air'. I hadn't given thought to what to ask to be honest
Parmenion says:
Questions wont be a problem I imagine
MAYATNIK says:
If you just talk, then the questions should easily flow.
Parmenion says:
Exactly
MAYATNIK says:
Are you ready to hook-up to the Zeta now, Karek.....and how will you do this?
Parmenion says:
K: I am ready. I will make the connection
MAYATNIK says:
Ok. Then I'll leave it with you to initiate - and you'll obviously be there to assist Parmenion during the course of the conversation if needed. I shall observe and keep in touch with you karek and the Zeta from this end, as Parmenion talks to them, and in that way I will monitor.
Parmenion says:
K: Ok. Leave it with us. All will be fine
Parmenion says:
Z: Hello
Parmenion says:
who am I speaking with?
Parmenion says:
Z: we are a group chosen to represent the Zeta in comunicating with you
Parmenion says:
you'll have to excuse me if Im a little slow, I am typing this as we speak
Parmenion says:
Z: that is ok
Parmenion says:
Z: Is there something you wish to ask us?
Parmenion says:
There are many questions I wish to ask
Parmenion says:
Z: start from the beginning
Parmenion says:
what is your purpose here at this time?
Parmenion says:
Z: we wish to explain to you the nature of our relationship with humans
Parmenion says:
Z: we are here to help
Parmenion says:
Is your area of assistance primarily focused on the Pole Shift?
Parmenion says:
Z: Yes it is
Parmenion says:
Z: We are here to assist in many ways to prepare humanity for the huge changes that are coming
Parmenion says:
Have you been here for long?
Parmenion says:
Z: Yes we have
Parmenion says:
Z: Time is not the same for us
Parmenion says:
Z: this is a very special time for earth and humanity
Parmenion says:
What exactly is going to happen?
Parmenion says:
Z: there is going to be a huge shift is conciousness on this planet. The Pole shift is a part of the process that will take earth to the next level
Parmenion says:
Of conciousness?
Parmenion says:
Z: Yes
Parmenion says:
Z: We are here to prepare you for that
Parmenion says:
Will many people die at the time of the pole shift?
Parmenion says:
Z: Yes many people will die
Parmenion says:
Why is this neccessary?
Parmenion says:
Z: It is necessary so that the earth can begin the trancendance from the 3rd Dimension
Parmenion says:
What will happen to governments?
Parmenion says:
Z: they will no longer exist
Parmenion says:
people will rally together?
Parmenion says:
Z: in a way yes. Small groups of people will remain with one or two people to lead these groups. The groups will come together to form little communities.It will be a much more peacefully time
Parmenion says:
really?
Parmenion says:
Z: yes, there will not be feuds or wars as they exist today
Parmenion says:
How do you go about preparing people for this Pole Shift?
Parmenion says:
Z: We let certain people know what to do in the


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on August 23, 2003, 10:49:07
Hello


Congratulations Val, Parm and Edi :)
I am really happy for you. Earth is indeed the most exciting place to be at this time!

Hope all goes well for you!
Malvina

P.S Thank you for posting this Mayatnik!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Serenity1 on August 23, 2003, 12:14:08
Thank You so much MAYATNIK for giving us so much in such a short time

So please applaud EDI, PARMENION and VALERIE for what they have done – as not only Astral Pulse Emissaries to the Stars, but representatives of Mankind in the shape of thing to come!

Thankyou


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on August 23, 2003, 13:28:08
Nice..
I know them all so well (edi and val) - with parmenion  i haven`t had the chance to have a good conversation :)
That was great... i was there - when the zeta tried to teach group AP - and i`m telling you it is not mambo-jumbo

I even have my little proof  -  but i don`t know if i should post it yet :)

NICE JOB: MAYATNIK VALERIE EDI AND PARMENION

All the best,
Mike


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: shadowatcher on August 24, 2003, 04:00:02
Finally....the truth.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on August 24, 2003, 14:47:23
A few words about my experience with the Zeta and telepathy in general.

When I normally talk to my guide Perena, I just hear the words in my mind. If I also pay attention to the 'visual' feeling on my inner screen, the voice seems to come from the upper right in front of me. I call the 'inner screen' the area in your mind where you percieve your own imaginations, where your daydreams take place etc., the space where you percieve with inner vision.

When I talk to several being telepathically, they occupy different places on this screen - my guide is to the upper right, and other being I talked to appeared to be at the left side - so it's easy to feel where the words come from.

I do not only get a faint visual image (faint because my inner perception is still developing), but also a whole set of feelings about whoever I talk to. The feeling I have with my guide is totally different of the feelings I had with the Zetas. At first the voice of their representative sounded metallic to me, but later it got quite normal. I perceived them to be a group of maybe 4-6 people, I had the 'image' of them in my mind, and I felt the presence of those who were not actively communicating with me. They had a diplomatic and sincere appearance, so the conversation had a formal and official feeling - I was missing the joking and teasing I use to get from Perena.

As I'll continue 'interviewing' the Zetas, I'd appreciate getting additional input from this forum - that's what it's all about: exchange of information. So whatever questions you may have, I will gladly include them in my sessions. This will not only help me to improve my skills as a 'interviewer' - I admire how Parmenion does this - everyone here will also benefit from this friendly interchange.

With love,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 24, 2003, 19:52:48
Whoooo that was alot to read...  But i did it!  YAY!

You're leaving?  But but but but but... who will I chat with on MSN?  :p  I'm so lonely :D

Good post!

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on August 24, 2003, 20:16:23
Edi.. here are some questions:

1.What is in Baciului Forest in Cluj, Romania ?
(in roumanian: Padurea Baciului, judetul Cluj, Romania)
2.Why are in Baciului Forest so many UFOs and Alien sightings ?
(there are over 1000000 pictures of UFOs from Baciului Forest)
3.Do you control all astral projections ?
(what i mean is... for a person to be able to project does he/she needs some kind of acces from the Zeta?)

This will be enough for a start i guess,
Mike


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: travelinbob on August 24, 2003, 21:25:29
Dang!!!

Sure hope all that was for real. Sounds good to me!!!

I can confirm a couple of things from the linkups, though:

1- I did have an experience of being contacted in a Lucid Dream and waken via the "vibes". I was told a few things I have since confirmed. I did post something about it on this or the other Mayatnik thread. And one more time I think. Nothing major. Just that the Freemasons were in contact with them. (oops. I hope they don't come knoking on my door tonight)[:D]

2- Not all guides are ETs. Mine is an "ascended" Franciscan Friar from 14th century England called Tom. (yes, just plian Tom) Guess not all catholics are bad. Ha ha. Just kidding.[:D]


Hey if y'all need more volunteers for contacts, I'm game.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Serenity1 on August 24, 2003, 22:53:16
Hi  Edi
I appreciate the diplomacy and work that has transpired through the telepathic skills that you guys have given yourselves so freely to at this most important time in the historical transitional event. I aplord your courage.

“As I'll continue 'interviewing' the Zetas, I'd appreciate getting additional input from this forum - that's what it's all about: exchange of information. So whatever questions you may have, I will gladly include them in my sessions. This will not only
lp me to improve my skills as a 'interviewer' - I admire how Parmenion does this - everyone here will also benefit from this friendly interchange.”


I have come across some information that I (and others) would like very much to have a bigger perspective on. To save time explaining, I posted (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6563) a web site address which has an article on UFO activity in the Solomon Islands which is attracting a lot of attention due to the fact the Australian Govt. sending 2000 troops to this one particular Island which has the most reported UFO activity.
On the thread Tayesin (Mark) makes mention in his reply that he calls these (UFO) entities the “Dark Ones”. That been the case for the want of identifying them, then my request of you Edi since you have offered to ask our Zeta and Pladian friends (I am
still at the crawling stage with my pendulum, so am being left in the dust with the speed that you guys are moving, [:(][:I]) is :
[?] Are the Zeta and Pladian aware of what is going on in the Solomon Islands and surrounding Islands? (I feel sure they are).
If they are, then what can we expect from these entities “Dark Ones”? Is their intent (being aggressive) going to be restrained. Is there anything they recommend we can do the neutralize what the Dark Ones are intending? Can we make the public more awar
of this situation and deception?
Any thing you might be prompted to ask regarding this would be very welcome Edi.
Thanks again to you and the guides you are working with.

Harvey


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: MAYATNIK on August 25, 2003, 22:30:42
Hello Everyone,

Yesterday, exactly 24 hours before this post here, TruthSeeker had his very first contact with the Zeta, and an excellent conversation with them, during which the accent in the session was about the background to what the Zeta are all about and what is happening at this time and as we go forward from this point now.  The Zeta, Naren (Truthseeker’s guide) and myself, all provide information in this session which you will find below, for the reader to now become more aware and begin to accumulate a storehouse of True Knowledge that will take the Earth forward to the giant leap in Mankind’s evolution that is coming soon.

Truthseeker is shown in RED (often putting “Me:”)
Naren is shown in ORANGE – ( also as N: )
ZETA are shown in GREEN
(I, MAYATNIK am shown in BLUE

TruthSeeker talks with the Zeta


MAYATNIK says:
Would you like to have a session for you to talk to the Zeta?
TruthSeeker says:
Yes I would really like to talk to them.
I feel like I've been standing still the last few days, walking in circles.

MAYATNIK says:
Do you feel ok now?
TruthSeeker says:
Yes I'm exellent.  All is very quiet here now.  Everyone’s gone to bed, so ideal time.
TruthSeeker says:
You see I really want to learn more.. I feel like a door has been opened, but I'm only able to take a small peek inside.
MAYATNIK says:
The reason why you feel you’ve been “standing still” is because I’ve not been able to arrange this session until now – this is due to the fact that the events of the 17th affected you adversely by the suddenness and therefore shock as you witnessed the Zeta guide taking the visitor (whom I’d invited to our telepathy multichat) into an Astral Projection… and you simply had not been expecting that, hence they ‘symptoms’ that are often the side-effect of AP-ing episodes; particularly, in your case, the temporary loss of full teleapathic ability.
MAYATNIK says:
So, my guide Karek - as supervisor - and your guide, Naren, both wanted you to have some time to settle down again before we did a link-up with the Zeta for you, for which Karek is the facilitator.  They have decided that the time has now come, and that you are ready.
MAYATNIK says:
Have you talked to Naren about it?
TruthSeeker says:
No, I find it hard to get sentences..  (this is since the 17th)
MAYATNIK says:
Well that is what you need – to be able to receive sentences.  And that is why, also, that I am here in in these link-up sessions to ensure that you are accurately receiving, because I check througout with your Pleiadian guide and I am also in contact at times during the session privately with the Zeta.
MAYATNIK says:
The overall purpose of my ‘monitoring’ in this then, is to enable a presentation here on MSN Messenger that will make what is happening clear to reader  of the transcript, and to ensure its validy – since anyone could say they were in contact with the Zeta.
MAYATNIK says:
Let's do a session then............and you type everything that you hear, putting N:  before it.........and all that you say (to me and to Naren) plus your comments as well.
TruthSeeker says:
Ok
TruthSeeker says:
Me: Are you here Naren?
N: Yes
TruthSeeker says:
Me: I want you to tell me something, a sentence, any sentence. Could you do this now?
N: …..
MAYATNIK says:
So....... what do you hear?
TruthSeeker says:
Nothing.
N: You need to separate your own thoughts from my messages
TruthSeeker says:
A sentence like that shoots in when I'm not expecting an asnwer.
MAYATNIK says:
Exactly !!!
MAYATNIK says:
Stop trying.   There's no need to strain your ears all day long listening for any sound........and no need to strain your eyes peering into every corner........ you simply hear and see........you don't even have to think about it........
telepathy is just another 'sense' like hearing and seeing.

TruthSeeker says:
N: Yes I am at all times in contact with him (Mayatnik).
I do not recall me question, but it was an appropriate answer

TruthSeeker says:
N: You will do just fine now.
TruthSeeker says:
N: Just let go.
TruthSeeker says:
N: Yes there are infact "spaceships" around Pluto
Me: I just read about it and asked.
MAYATNIK says:
It is a good way to talk to Naren at any time you are reading information books...beause he can add so much more, and correct things that are wrong in the books.
MAYATNIK says:
So now…. can we do a Pleiadian ‘Instant AP’ to warm up before Naren makes the Zeta link-up…..
TruthSeeker says:
Me: Could you show me a picture?

A church, read brick-walls. Tall bell-tower. Sunny day. Green grass lawns, with big green trees scattered along the lawns.

TruthSeeker says:
It's somewhere in the U.S
MAYATNIK says:
You can go into any ‘scene’, and walk around.
TruthSeeker says:
Michigan or "Cincinnati" (Closest thing I can get to something that sounds like place)
MAYATNIK says:
It's a new style 'community' that is built around the church...... the church runs many things for the people..and it is like a min-town.
TruthSeeker says:
Are you talking about this particualr church?
MAYATNIK says:
Yes…. < ----- (I had mentioned it to give him confidence, which he needed)
TruthSeeker says:
Then you can see it as well…
MAYATNIK says:
Yes..... Naren sent it to me, for me to know where you are - but it is your exercise! ….. I am merely confirming here.
MAYATNIK says:
So, walk around......step into the picture......and just 'go'......Naren will be with you.........explore, and talk.......describe what you see and what happens by typing it.......you can be in both places at once.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: take me back there please, Naren.. To the church.

There is a dark basement. Lots of dust and spider-webs. On the outside the sun is shining. I want to talk to one of the kids runnining the street. It is a small boy with a red cap. His name is Bob and he tells me this is his home. Everything, the whole wown is centered around this church.

TruthSeeker says:
The priest is inside the church.. He has his own room in the hall at the back of the church. He is reading something. A parchment of some kind. He is taking notes on a paper.
TruthSeeker says:
The church has a lot of doves living at the roof. There are even doves inside the church, flying back and forth every now and then. A man is walking up hte street. He has a bowler-hat...It is the major of the city. He looks at me and walks away.
TruthSeeker says:
The city has a lot of nature around it.. Running streams of water. The forest has a "wet" feel. It is early in the morning. The major was on his way to work.
TruthSeeker says:
Most people are not up yet, but in half an hour the city will be awake. The children do not attend a normal school. They are taught at church. A woman is their teacher, her name is Sandra.
TruthSeeker says:
I left…..
TruthSeeker says:
N: You did good there.
MAYATNIK says:
Notice that you could 'feel' the wetness, 'know' about the man...... all those things, more than just seeing.
TruthSeeker says:
It was not an actual event.
TruthSeeker says:
N: It was a "scenery".
MAYATNIK says:
I call it a 'cameo' (an English expression)…..Many of these such are ‘presented’ for a person in training – they are in fact also presented to ordinary AP-ers, for them to get ‘experiences’ and interact with ‘situations’, though AP-ers are not aware what the purpose is….for their level of awareness to be assessed usually, by those who ‘create’ the scene for the AP-er..   You, on the other hand, have a guide who accompanies you, and will sometimes explain these things
MAYATNIK says:
It'a moving picture of ‘events’…..  on a ‘stage-set’ specially contstructed by the guides for ‘exploration practice’.
TruthSeeker says:
N: At a deeper relaxation you will be able to move more "into" the picture. This can also be done in the relaxation-level you are at now, but it takes practice.
TruthSeeker says:
N: Typing long sentences or even keywords will help, as well as you can look back at it later.
TruthSeeker says:
N: Yes we can talk to the Zeta when you are ready, but you have some more questions to ask first.
TruthSeeker says:
Will talking to the Zeta be just like talking to Naren (exept the more polite/diplomatic tone)?
TruthSeeker says:
N: There will be a different "feel" to it, but as long as you "let go" you will be able to percieve then just fine.
TruthSeeker says:
Are you here Mayatnik?
TruthSeeker says:
N: Yes he's here
MAYATNIK says:
I'm here.
TruthSeeker says:
oh
MAYATNIK says:
I'm just watching – that’s what Naren has asked me to do at this time, with the minimum of my interaction here, for a purpose..........you can ask Naren some questions about how it will be with the Zeta, and what Naren does about it.
TruthSeeker says:
N: I will connect you to Zeta through our "main-frame". You will be able to get a "feel" of the "persons" involved, as well as you will be able to talk to them.
N: Yes all of them can talk to you, but some of them are just observers.

TruthSeeker says:
Me: Tell me something about them(the Zeta)
The Zeta are located at a mothership. As Mayatnik has told you the ship has been provided by the Arcturians. They wil have a room of their own, but there will be others outside that room watching(No point in hiding it since you have allready read about it - gentle smile).

TruthSeeker says:
N: You forgot to include the "N:", that is very important for further reference. < ---- (This is a common practice for the guides to sometimes tell the person if a point needs to be stressed about something like this, and other things in their teaching and ‘training’ by the guide.
Those who say that it may be the person’s imagination and not an external communication have not had a guide telling them off  (albeit they are always gentle in their remonstration) about something!  It is unmistakably not the person’s own mind.

TruthSeeker says:
N: If you are ready we will contact the Zeta now.
TruthSeeker says:
Z: Greetings
Me: Hello Zeta Reticulans, I am pleased to be talking to you.
Z: The pleasire is on our side as well.
Z: You can ask us every question you would like.
Me: Tell me something of your home planet.
Z: We are scattered amongst many planets in this universe. We have no Planet that we can refer to as home more than anything else. We live in Planets with oxygen and we enjoy nature. We have large cities where we live our lives. The duities we perform are very varied. We are scientists and builders as an example. And as you must understand, some of us have been sent out here to assist you.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: Many people are afraid of you, based on wrong beliefs given by many sources. Is the reason for you being in contact with me now to share the knowledge of waht you really are?
Z: This is one of the reasons, yes. We have a job to do very soon on earth, and we need to convince people that we only wish to help.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: Abductions happen apparently, why is this?
Z: We "abduct" humans by escorting their astral body to our ships. There we perform "checkups" and we subconsciously provide the subject with information. This information can be realeased at our will, and with the subjects will, combined.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: There are six of you there in that white room, there are only one of you doing the talking with me. Why is this?
Z: As your guide, Naren, has allready told you: They are here to observe and be present.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: Tell me something about how your community works, is there a president or a King?
Z: At the top we have the Council. Several of the oldest and wisest of us sits there. This is where decicions are made. We do not however have an indirect democracy. Ever citizen of our community has his say, and desicions are based upon that.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: Why is it that all extra terrestirals I have heard of are "humanoid"?
Z: We are all the same. We are beings of Light and has developed from the same Source. We were once like you, but we have grown. How we look now is due to the choises we have made during history. We are masters of genetics, and have shaped our physical bodies as we see fit. Our body has no need for food, as it is energy-relyant and can "digest" pure energy.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: What will be your task here when the Pole Shift arrives?
Z: When the Pole Shift begins we will be on earth assisting those who accept it. After the Shift we wil walk amongst you and give you guidance and support. We will help you in starting communities once again, and we will ensure that the most beneficial actions are taken for you further well being.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: What will happen to the governments we have?
Z: They will fall, and it's members that did you no good, will die. New Government eqivilants will not be formed. You will be based on a Counsil that takes your decision, and you will have a "widened demoracy". You will be assisted in this both by us, and others.
TruthSeeker says:
Me: I can not find any more questions to ask you right now.
Z: That is fine. We are here to answer your questions at all times, and Naren will fix this for you.
Me: Thank you very much for your time.
Z: The pleasure is all ours
Z Be well
TruthSeeker says:
N: You did very well there. Do not worry about not having any more questions, there will be more time to ask them.
TruthSeeker says:
N: I am very pleased.. (big smile)
MAYATNIK says:
It was very informative for people
TruthSeeker says:
(Naren is dancing..)
TruthSeeker says:
N: What you did here aided the greater picture of things to come. People will be more prepared for what is coming.
MAYATNIK says:
These are some of the things that I learned when I was talking to the Zeta many years ago now, so you can see this Agenda for Earth is long-established.  People will now be able to learn what I was told.  At the time, I was told not to reveal those things, and that has been the case until now, until it became time - but there are now going to be a growing number who will learn telepathy and be able to ask on behalf of others, and write down what they and the zeta were discussing.  So, in this way it will benefit all.
TruthSeeker says:
*The Zeta is leaving the half-moon-shped table*
TruthSeeker says:
They wore blueish-white robes. Their appearance was very wise and trusting.
TruthSeeker says:
Their big eyes was very deep and there were a very strong kindness there.
MAYATNIK says:
It felt good to be there
TruthSeeker says:
Most certainly.
MAYATNIK says:
You can arrange with Naren on other occasions to talk to them and they will welcome your questions.
MAYATNIK says:
Because you will want to let people know this information, then this 'format' on MSN Messenger is ideal for this....... sometimes you can just make notes if you are away from the computer, and then write up your account later – even better, if you are not at the computer, to use a tape recorder at the time.......and people will benefit greatly from that..........You are an Emissary and representative of Humankind now.
TruthSeeker says:
How should I use this information?
MAYATNIK says:
The information is for all to hear about - and for now, can be published on the Astral Pulse on the thread.....I am here at this time to assist and write these first few posts.......
Naren will explain a little more about this, and what the plan is to expand from here.

TruthSeeker says:
Ok.
MAYATNIK says:
Can you type what Naren says about this now.
TruthSeeker says:
N: The plan is: Edward will finish what he is doing at the Astral Pulse. Then he will be given other tasks that does not include online guidance. He will be working with persons, and he will be the Base of where you will be "operating" from. He will still be around to help you. You will aswell be given certain tasks when it is time, but for now you should familiarize yourself with all of this.
MAYATNIK says:
The reason why I am 'monitoring' these sessions has in part to do with the presentation........a standard presentation that you and others will adopt as you get familiar with it... my task is also to ensure that the person gets used to the conversations and the way of working as easily as possible (this makes it easier for you at first) and also shows readers a much better overall picture.......
MAYATNIK says:
These transcripts will also be used for the 'teachers' whom I shall train, for them to follow the same patterns......this will achieve the maximum benefit for all.
TruthSeeker says:
I see.
TruthSeeker says:
Well I guess we have done what we were supposed to then.
MAYATNIK says:
Yes. It went very well indeed, and Naren has just agreed there.
MAYATNIK says:
That was excelllent work
TruthSeeker says:
#61514;
MAYATNIK says:
You will become familiar with doing this as you progress..........but for now Naren wants me to 'monitor' sessions to assist you also.
TruthSeeker says:
Yes I understand, and appreciate it.
MAYATNIK says:
You already have good confidence........but you will learn even more, easily and quickly, as you proceed now.
MAYATNIK says:
The Zeta are now, for you, literally only a 'phone call' away when arranged by Naren....... it is the reverse of "ET phone home"......because Humans are now able to phone ET.
TruthSeeker says:
heheh
TruthSeeker says:
Very exellent.
MAYATNIK says:
It is made especially simple all round, by using this Messenger format........and the Zeta tap on to MSN Messenger and spool it to their computer.....so that other Zeta can also read it afterwards.  This is very helpful for the planning and things associated with this joint-venture between the Zeta and the Pleiadians, because the Zeta have a log of the Messenger conversation with them.
MAYATNIK says:
very helpful  to all, in this stage now to build a real friendship with those who will be assisting Earth in preparation for the coming Pole Shift, and afterwards.
TruthSeeker says:
Yes I see the importance of this.
MAYATNIK says:
We have done enough for tonight.........so have you any further questions before we close this session.....?....to myself or to Naren at this time.
TruthSeeker says:
No questions that I can think of.
I should probably go to bed and get some sleep before classes begin in four hours..
Good night Mayatnik, and thank you for everyting.

MAYATNIK says:
You need your sleep........and know that Naren is there all the time, to talk to you.  I will see you tomorrow.......so in the meantime Goodnight and sleep well !
TruthSeeker says:
Love and Light
        and
      Be well

MAYATNIK says:
Love and Light
MAYATNIK says:
The Seeker has found the Truth !
               Be Well


----o----


Congratulations to TruthSeeker on his first conversation with the ZETA.  So, yet another person becomes an Emissary to the Stars, and a Representative of Mankind in the shape of things to come.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on August 26, 2003, 06:38:27
Hello

Well done TruthSeeker!
Emissary to the Stars, hmm, sounds fun [:)]
Yet another excellent post Mayatnik !


Malvina


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 26, 2003, 07:02:18
Yep, a very nice post.  And i see you worked out all the color bugs in it *wink* [8D]

It's like 4 am here and I just got done telling my friend about all the cool thing I read.  I thought (because I know him quite well) that he was going to not beleive me...but he did.  He even know what I was gonna say before hand.  Seems like I found a new friend to talk things over with online :)

Don't worry, he doesn't replace you Mayatnik [:P]  Just talk to me more often! [|)]

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 26, 2003, 14:09:03
I'm curious about something. I'll premise this with the statement that I'm not one of the UFO wathcer types. I do believe in intelligent life on other planets and that alien races have visited the earth. But I don't subscribe to a lot of the hype and sensationalism that is written. ANd I've never personally had contact with another being (that I'm aware of).  Has anyone met any of these beings in the astral?

I had a really weird experience the other month involving a race of aliens, but I they aren't the typical 'greys' that everyone talks about.

I went lucid about a month ago or so and asked for a guide. Someone appeared with an object he called 'mother' that I understood to be some kind of computer device (never had that happen before). I told him I wanted a guide who could answer some questions about karma, past lives and the pendulum (trying to verify some information I'm receiving from the pendulum). He told me that I couldn't ask about past lives. I then asked if I could get answers about karma and the pendulum. He said yes and 'summoned' a guide. I've only called on a guide once before and his appearance was very different to this process and what I'm going to describe below. So I don't have a lot of experience with which to compare this.

Next I'm in a white room surrounded by a bunch of people, all of whom were sitting at stations, like desks. Except for myself and the guide, we were standing. For some reason, I felt the urge to ask if they were aliens (even though they all looked human to me). This thought stemmed from the pendulum posts and the numerous references to 'alien guides'. The guide reaches towards me and touches my forehead (3rd eye area). When his hand pulled away, I looked around and all of the people now looked like aliens, of the same race.

They were humanoid form, but their eyes were different. Instead of eyes, I got the impression of bright colored lights across their forehead. Sort of like a horizontal line. Not sure that makes sense. I walked through the room looking at each one and shaking hands with them (they all had their hands extended as such to me). But what I ended up focusing on was their hands. They didn't have 4 fingers and a thumb. Their skin was grey and they had, what I will describe as, two large fingers. The fingers were slighlty rounded on the back, and the front or underside was flat (meaning not rounded or curved) but slighlty wrinkled. As I shook hands with them, I would shake the bottom finger and then shake or rub the back of my hand against their top finger. I did this with many of the ones in that room.

The rest of this trip is equally strange and bizarre, but I'm curious if these fit the description of any of these 28 alien races that are mentioned in Parmenion's chat session? Or did the beings in the astral change simply because I questioned whether or not they were aliens? I do know that thoughts affect the astral, so I'm not sure which to believe. However, if Parmenion or Mayatnik could confirm whether or not this experience happened with one of the races, that would be a big help to me. Thanks!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 26, 2003, 18:26:45
Hello MAYATNIK! If all that stuff about aliens is truth, and if you can speak with them, so i have message that you could deliver to them. If they are really interested in preparing people for the "i don´t know what", you could tell them to show themselves (in ufos) to people in my city, that is very conservative. They could say a day and an hour, and them they would prove to me and to other people in my city that they are indeed real.

I´m not kidding. If they accept my idea, just tell me, because i must them tell you my real city (the one that you see in my description its not true).


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lynfer on August 26, 2003, 22:16:42
I have some questions for the Zeta:Why do they believe that their methods of communication and such are better than telepathy? Why do they choose to work in that way with us humans incarnates?

This question is to both races(pleiadian and Zeta) and the other races which wish to answer this: WHy if there is so much talk and feel of unity in the higher planes do they have all this different alien species? Why not a whole united species? I don't mean to offen any of these alien races with these questions I am asking. Do the negative beings also have ships?

Doies anyone know what is happening on august the 27. I've been hearing a few talks about this paritcular day on the forum and it is also my birthday?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 26, 2003, 22:28:16
I haven't heard the date aside from me yelling about it being the day the video game of the year is to be released!  Whee for Soul Calibur 2.

BTW - Happy Birthday!  :D

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on August 26, 2003, 23:04:03
Hello everyone,

this information exchange we see beginning here is flourishing quickly... as more and more of us get proficient in telepathic communication, facilitated by the pendulum in the beginning, we will see much information coming through this 'door' which has now been opened. It is of great importance to note that everyone involved in these contacts has been trained specially for it to ensure greatest precision. In this regard, I have been appointed as the first Trainee Teacher in this program - under direct supervision by Mayatnik. I have the responsibility to ensure that accuracy is maintained at all times in the transcripts presented here ... so that the Truth Shall Be Known. This means it will also be my duty to train interested 'newcomers' to get a good rapport with their pendulums (and guides when they are assigned to them) and help with whatever problems may arise, until finally the 'link' is so stable and accurate that they can participate in this ongoing project.

I now present you the log of my latest conversation with the Zetas, in the known color scheme:

I, Edi am shown in RED (with 'E:' in the beginning)
Perena, my guide, is shown in ORANGE ('P:')
ZETA are shown in GREEN ('Z:')



E: Perena, I would now like to talk with the Zetas about some things.
P: Okay... this will shed some more light on the situation everyone is in. Are you ready for the connection?
E: Yes, I am.
P: Good... then I'm connecting you now...
Z: Hello Edi.
E: I greet you. May I ask you some questions at this time?
Z: Sure. What do you want to know?
E: What is there in Baciului Forest in Cluj, Romania?
Z: The UFO-Activites there are directly related to us. Entrances to an underground base are located somewhere in this area.
E: Why there?
Z: The place is suitable because the geography and the historical development of the country made it easier to remain undisturbed than in more western countries.
E: Can I know what is happening there?
Z: It is one center of our east-european activities, from where we can contact individuals and governments/military.
E: How many people in the governments know of your activities?
Z: As few as possible, and as much as necessary. They military normally knows more, because it has the technical abilities to monitor our activities (to a certain extent). In the governments itself there are seldom more than 2 or 3 who are in contact with us (in each country). It will take some time for humanity to be open and ready for contact, at the moment it would cause a rather disturbing 'shock'.
E: Thank you for this information. The next question I was asked to give you is: do you control all astral projections?
Z: Of couse not. Everyone can astral project.. it is in fact only a shifting of the focus of your consciousness to a higher plane. If we want to contact someone via this method, we can get him into the right state by manipulating his electromagnetic field.
P: People themselves make it difficult by using so many methods and theories. It's good if you want to know exactly how it works at one point, but this can also build up mental structures which often hinder more than they help.
E: Thank you for this. The last question from others I have for you is about the Solomon Islands, near Australia. There's a lot of UFO activity going on down there.. are you in any way connected to it?
Z: No, we're not.
P: It's the Reptilians who are stationed there.
Z: We are of course not the only ones in possession of UFOs.
E: Do you know what is going on down there?
Z: Of course.
P: Edi and myself will discuss the rest of the related questions later.

( we talked about this later... see the end of the post for more )

E: Now I would like to get some details about your history.
Z: That's fine. Where do you want to begin?
E: Is there something in your history which can explain to us how you are today, and why you are this way?
Z: Indeed. We haven't been like today all the time. Our people once lived on a planed which was similar to earth. We had much vegetation and lived on the surface of a beautiful planet.
E: How did you look at that time?
Z: Our appearance was humanoid - in fact we and humans share common ancestors, and at that time we didn't differ as much as today.
E: Do also other species stem from these ancestors?
Z: We are talking about the Lyrans... they were one of the most early civilisations in this part of the Galaxy, and colonized many worlds over time. This is why they influenced many species.
P: For humans this was by far not the only influcence.. many others contributed here.
Z: When our world was colonized, we were a melting pot for many different lines of development of the Lyrans, so for a long time we had many conflicts. There were all sorts of polarities imaginable among us, even more than on earth. Always we had suspense and opposition among us, which often lead to those conflicts.
E: Did many wars take place on your planet?
Z: Yes.. but they were mostly only local and finished quickly.
E: Which significance do these conflicts have for your history?
Z: At that time we were much concerned about individuality, the own opinion was the most important thing... much fought for. We were literally carried away by our emotions. Too much. It became more and more difficult to find a common way to go. This ended in an atomic war.
E: This war came suddenly?
Z: No, it loomed about us long before... more than hundred of your years we had more and more tension, which finally let the situation escalate.
E: What was the result of it?
Z: Our ecosystem collapsed - not only most of the surface was radiated, also the vegetation couldn't keep up our atmosphere anymore, so very quickly (several months) life on the surface became almost impossible.
E: Didn't you have enough technology to save and clean the planet in order to colonize it anew?
Z: It would have taken much time - and there already were underground bases which were totally isolated from the surface and could save our existence for the next time. These bases were already populated when the war begun, and we thought "why don't we stay down here? This will be a totally new challenge". So we abandoned the surface and stayed in the underground, everything withdrawed to the inside of the planet, between several hundred meters to a few kilometers below the surface.
P: I think this part of your history is enough for the moment, it will be continued at another time.
Z: Yes.. Edi, your guide will want to talk to you about some parts of this and eventually make some annotations.
P: This is correct.
E: Do you agree that I post this transcript on Astralpulse?
Z: Yes. This was the purpose of this conversation from the very beginning on.
E: Good. Then I thank you, and will see you at the next session.
P: Thanks from my side to everyone, too.
Z: We're looking forward to the next session.. there's much left to say, we all are just at the beginning.
P: I'm going to terminate the connection now.



Some notes about the Solomon islands and the Reptilians in general: I do not know much about them yet and what will happen or not... the book 'Bringers of the Dawn' does give some information about the role they play. On a general note, I can say that no major disruption of the 'plan' for earth will be tolerated by the Galatic Federation (a organizational structure with members from different planets all over the galaxy) which is watching over this development. Whatever will happen is intended that way, maybe like 'karma' on a larger scale - polarities merging, conflicts surfacing and worked out... not individually, but as a whole species. After all, we all are One - we and everyone out there.
To answer your specific questions, Harvey: The link given in the thread about the Solomon isles gives much accurate information and reports about what is going on down there - and many people all over the world are investigating such matters and trying to get them public, the problem is not that too less work would be done on this... it is just not yet time for the general public to accept all this stuff, it will take time to slowly surface. This may also answer the question of Kazbadan to some extent... if Zetas or other species wanted to show themselves to us now, they would simply do it. But it would not be right and not allowed to force this upon us. See, the information is there. There are literally thousands or millions of UFO reports, pictures, witness stories and so on... where does this all come from? The point is that nobody wants to believe it. People will have to embrace this reality by themselves... with gentle nudges into the right directions from time to time. This can take many years... but not forever.
We are taking steps here to put all those little puzzle pieces together, one by one.

Enough for now.. more is to come.

With love,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on August 27, 2003, 01:13:41
Hi,

I do not consider myself a die hard skeptic, but neither do I think it is necessarily wise to accept everything you read on a forum to be truth to live for either.  I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but please understand from an outside perspective, this whole thing can sound like an amateur version of the X-files.

Normally my intuition about things like this serves me well: either it feels true or it feels false.  Reading this, I get no sense of truth or falsehood.  IF all of this is true, I would like to learn more about it and even offer to help.  If these beings desire to communicate with and assist humanity, is it reasonable to guess that they will expect some reasonable skepticism and perhaps be willing to meet with us personally?

The root of my question is: What does your guide tell you about my desire to have a personal experience with them myself?  If this is acceptable, what do I do on my part to help make this happen?

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 27, 2003, 05:29:41
Ok so I'm gonna do something someone hasn't done in a while... and I'm gonna post my pendulum questions from about 2 hours ago :)

I did this not only for information for me, but to remind everyone that you don't have to ask these 4 members everything... if you bought / made a pendulum  [:)]

Tonight's idea was to break questioning into 4 categories as I got an idea for a question.  The categories (in order) were: 1. My friend.  2. Bringers of the Dawn (the book)  3. ME  4. Other (can't go wrong with other!).  Since this is my friend, it'd basically be useless telling you what I asked.  Just know that I asked 5 simple questions about my good friend that I talked about 1 or 2 posts up.

So with that we start to actually show you what I said!  Questions in red, answers in green, and comments in blue!  (CraZy TaXi) "Are ya ready? Heere Wee GO!"

Bringers of the Dawn questions.

1.  Is this book highly accurate in your terms? Yes. And it should be... you'd know if ya read it!

2. Should I take everything I read in the book seriously? No. With the anwer of "no" the next question I had written down became irrelevant.  Darn it, I wasted ink!

Well that was all I had for that section anyway.  Hehe, I should be able to make plenty more for the next session... Onto...

ME questions!

1. In some way, do you help me in my everyday life? Yes. Good to know.

2. Can I participate in school while still having a clear understanding of the truth? Yes. Questioned this because of a part of the book. Maybe I should've throw it in that section...

3. I read the post by Edi, and decided to ask this... HAve I been going about trying to Astral Project the wrong way? Yes. Now I gotta find the right way! Spurred 2 more questions.

4. Will the right way dawn upon me during an attempt? No. Well if that isn't it...

5. Will I eventually just learn the right way? Yes. Yay for me.

6. Should I use the 2 L-rods I made after the session? Yes. So I did.

Done with that section.  I had plenty more personal questions there, which I feel the need not to post here. Personal means for me only :) So onward and upward with...

OTHER Questions!

1. Is the progress going well with the 4 members on the Astral Pulse members in contact with the Zeta? Yes. Hehe, news travels fast guys :p Good work :)

2. Have you witnessed any of these happening? No. What is there to say? Next question.

3. The first night I asked for a name.. was this name I recieved a joke? Yes. I knew it :p Remember sometimes you can get answers that aren't true in a sense.. they teach you better that way.

Again, the others were personal. Some people asked me to ask... so i did. They know who they are :)

So again, I repeat, even though it looks like a mediocre amount of questions, this was actually my longest session ever.  There were a good amount of questions that didn't need to be posted.

The L-Rod session went over pretty well.. I'm getting a better understanding of how to hold it right :)

That was fun.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Tao on August 27, 2003, 05:37:56
Nice post Edi.. and we my gratitude to the Zeta also..
Thanks for putting my questions into your session :)

Here are the next 3 questions:
1. Are dreams controlled by an alien specie ? (maybe them)
2. Is it possible to AP at request ? (eg: i ask you to ask the Zeta to AP me)
3. What is the link between the history of the Roumanian (or Transilvania) and the Baciului Forest ? (you said something in your last post about this)

This is all for now and thanks again :),
Mike


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 27, 2003, 10:29:41
MAYATNIK and ED: What proofs do you have about what you say? I believe in OBEs, for example, because there is an infinity of reports made by many people, demonstrating that they are real. I believe in ufos for the same reasons (and ufos it´s even more easy to believe, since we have videos, photos, etc).

Now you started talking about something that it is very difficult to believe: direct contact with the Entities behind the UFO phenomenon.

I hope you can understand my position, i know many people that it is always inventing crazy storys about stupid things and all that they want it´s attention or money (by selling books, etc). So, what can you say that can proof to me that what you say it´s real? Believe me when i say: "I want to believe!".

If you have read my last post (page 22 i think), maybe you could do something about it, and ask to the Zeta or aliens  to make a "little" appearance in my city [:)]. That´s a very good way to proof something about that.

thanks
















Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: travelinbob on August 27, 2003, 16:05:35
Kazbadan

I hear what you are saying. I do hope these guys aren't lying. But my guess is that we will all find out one way or another sooner rather than later. I don't like when people give a specific date for something to happen. (Late 2012) Nothing ends up happening.

I will continue to live my life as I have lead it so far, but I will keep an eye for these things. Like I said in my last post in this thread, I have had my contacts so I do give Mayatnik, Edi, Truthseeker, et al the benefit of the doubt.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 27, 2003, 19:05:20
but i would like to listen something from Maya or Ed. I´m not saying that they are lying. I just want some proof (and if true it would be nice if the aliens acept my idea of making an apperance in my city[:)])


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Squeek on August 27, 2003, 19:48:51
Everybody wants proof...but nobody necessarily NEEDS it... If you know any religion out there.. most are based off of historical facts we don't even know are true!  Anybody could've written the bible, or the Torah, or the Q'oran. (I think I got those spelled right...).  But we believe in them.  We don't need to in order to follow the faith, we just want to.

Same applications exist in this case.  We all WANT proof, sure.  That's what everybody wants these days; cold hard facts.  But chances are that isn't always going to happen for everybody, and it just requires an open mind on the subject :)

(WHOA! A Serious post?!  Better throw in a joke...)

Uhhhh why did the chicken cross the road....  Because...  Uhh he thought he saw his friend on the other side or something...  Yea.

~Squeek


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on August 27, 2003, 21:30:24
It's also worth noting that faith does not have to be completely blind.  It can be built little by little as you see tangible ways that you can personally understand why something deserves more of your faith.  It's been my perception that anything having to do with "Aliens" has an extremely high rate of inaccuracies or even outright fraud.  Regarding the Bible and other religious texts, I can only say for myself personally that I believe some of what is written in them is true because it FEELS true and I can clearly understand why it would be beneficial advise.  Certain other parts absolutely do NOT feel true for me, so I therefore do not accept them.  I accept none of what is written just because somebody wrote it, and other people happen to believe it - or tell me I "should" believe it.

I am not saying THIS is necessarily inaccurate or fraudulent, but I am saying that many people will (reasonably?) require more than words written in an open forum by people they do not personally know well enough to trust, before they will be likely to believe something as radical and potentially critical to the entire human race as what is discussed here.  It is a fine line to walk keeping a working balance between having an open mind and acting like a fool.

I would honestly expect any highly evolved being to be rather disappointed in us if we just accepted something this important with nothing but completely blind faith?  

I'm here, and I am willing to see the truth if they are willing to meet with me.  [:)]

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 27, 2003, 23:37:52
Faith is too blind for my taste! "I saw a green angel in my graveyard and he sayed that he comes from Taurus 13617. The planet will be destroyed because of our actions. We must be prepared for "The Day of Disruption". I will be saved if i believe in the lord of the order, the truth creator of the seven universes". It´s just a question of faith, that makes me believe in that...i saw it, i swear! Believe me!

Well, i don´t need you to believe in me... i just saw it and that´s all! You are the ones that must proof that it´s fake my sayings...

BTW: the day is near and if you don´t believe your gonna day. uahhhaaaaa[8D].

I hope you get the idea..with all respect to everyone.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeventhVirgo on August 28, 2003, 02:10:04
Well, Kazbadan, I'll quote soulfire, because I feel that he said something that might help out in what what I'm trying to say: "Normally my intuition about things like this serves me well: either it feels true or it feels false. Reading this, I get no sense of truth or falsehood."

It is quite obvious that there is a difference between your example...and what Mayatnik and Edi have showed us.  Like Soulfire said, something either feels true or it feels false...YOUR example just feels false...And there is something different about what Mayatnik and Edi have provided (I don't know what to call it), that we don't have a sense of truth of falsehood.  Surely, that is enough to be taken into consideration :).


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeventhVirgo on August 28, 2003, 02:47:52
I'm not sure how to edit my post, so I appologize for the 2nd sererate post.  But I'd like to share an experience I've had with all of you...I hope it is safe.  When I was about 8-10 years old, I remember being outside at night with a couple of very close friends (almost brothers); there were like 2 or 3 of them there.  Well, you probably already guessed it, but we all saw I guess what was a UFO...It was sort of small, I'd say about 14 feet in radius; I don't think it was perfectly round...more like an oval and it had a bright white light in front...could have been more lights.  I remember we that I was amazed and probably curious. The weird thing is, that I seem to be the only one that can remembers that.  I've also had other unexplained experiences, when I was very little...about 3 years of age, I remember being asleep and feeling a presene watching over me...and I feared it.  I remember it had the form of a child and it was floating above me.  I got up crying, because it had whipped me...I think my Mother still remembers me coming to her after that happened. Another incident...is when I really dont know what age...but it was around that same age, my mother was shopping...when some humanoid "creatures" just start chasing everyone...Once again, I seem to be the only one that remembers this.  I know that it is possible for all of these to have been dreams...but I think these events have something to do with the "fact" that I don't really know what I am...I just know that I'm not like everyone else.  Well, me being able to remember things from such a long time ago...is probably something which makes me different, but that is not all.  I've always been able to put myself in a person's position and thus, reasoning many things about them...In school drafts, where you put your name in, and out comes your nme and you win, when I wanted to win, I won.  Another experience similar to this, when my brother was born, my 1st grade teacher, knew about this...So at the end of the school year, we accumulated all of our earned "being-good-tickets."  I had about the 2nd highest amount of them in the whole class...but something told me to lie...and say I had more...Another student counted them, and she agreed that I had more...but I didnt... Guess what the prize was? Baby whipes...So what does all of this have to do with the weird experiences.  Well, I am really opening up here, but I think that the species that is trying to stop us from going to our next level, is invovled with this...trying to disturb humans like me.  To tell you the truth, they are very good at it...Today, at 16 years of age, I find myself much less concious and a lot more corrupted.  I am no longer as intelligent as I used to be (at age 5-10)...I've been noticing a change in the things I produce...(I'm a Digital Artist); When I was younger, my thoughts, and my art, where much more to me than they are now...I used to treasure them...I was probably one of the most humble humans you would've met, and now, I'm very arrogant...As I am afraid that I have lost those talents, so by feeling superior, I guess it's a fake way of making myself feel like I used to be.  Also, I nolonger feel love for anything, nor am I moved by anything...and I'm very afraid of everything.  Like Mayatnik said, or someone else, they feed on our fear...so that's probably why they caused me to have those experiences at a young age...when they're most effective.  And I believe, that the reason why my friends and my mother don't remember that is...because they probably didnt really matter to the ones that feed on our fear, and they most likely just mind controlled them in some way.  I'd like for this to be confirmed if possible, by the Zeta.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeventhVirgo on August 28, 2003, 03:07:07
If you still dont' believe that they would want ME to live in fear, I'll tell you a few more things about me...

-I used to be able to do WHATEVER I wanted to do. (Achieve anything)
-I'm a genius, and my IQ(I think IQ is overrated, but still it is soemthing) was very high; and even after all that corruption, I'm still able to stay at the genius level.  Once again, this was something I treasure VERY much, and would've never told anyone...but like I said, I'm corrupted, and I'm looking for help.
-I know what I am able to do and what I am not...so I know my abilities pretty well...but lately, they have been deceiving me...and I'm realizing a decline in my talents.
-I can tell what a person is feeling/thinking by they way they interact, expressions; I guess it's called insight.  I think what enables me to do this is, the fact that I AM human, and thus, I am able to feel what everyone else feels, since they all have a little bit of me in them...)figurely speaking).  But I guess what seperates me from most people is that I am able to detect many of those feelings.
-I've read some of the Philosopher's ideas...and before I read them, I already knew them.  It is all common sense to me...but to other people it is confusing...or I think they probably have a hard time accepting many of the ideas...maybe this is due to the pressure that the "fear-eaters" put upon them.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: silentwitness78 on August 28, 2003, 09:48:18
Mayatnik. Edward. Old friend.

Long time no see. [;)]

I have not come to this place in a long time now.
I have been off in my own world trying to figure things out on my own. I have learned a lot.

I am tired.

Bruised. [B)]

Beaten. [V]

From knowing you I have become a scholar.

I have learned much.

I am at the end of one journey, awaiting God's love to guide me forward to a new adventure.

My ego still hangs on. [}:)] He fights me. But he is almost dead. [xx(] I am so close. So very close. The end of the begining is near.

I am disapearing from myself and my attributes. I am present only for God. I have forgotten all my childish learnings. I have lost all my strength, but from God's power. I will be able.

I have been sent here for a reason old friend.

I am here to ask you and your guide, the Zeta's and Plaeideans a few questions.

I ask you...

Why?

Why lie? Why deceive? In all of my learnings. I cannot see how this makes sense. I am puzzled. Perplexed. Confused.

A long time ago you told me to prepare.

May 15th came first.

Then it was June.

Then July.

Then August.

At one point you yourself told me your guide had told you it was only days away. I ask you not in anger or bitterness but from a sincere need to understand.

Why?

Why the lies? You yourself said the Zeta's purposely misled people because of governments, etc etc. This does not make sense to me, you say they have "rules" but what sense do these rules make if they are not for the "higher good"? Does the "higher good" involve lies and deceit? From all that I have experienced and seen this goes against all the laws of the universe.

Why then?

You always say you are not given specific dates but always give rough estimates that do not come true. Not even close. May. June. July. August. September. Almost half a year has gone by now. Why? Also, you DID at one point tell me it would be within a few weeks, and at one point even days. I asked you what your guide said and this is what you told me.

In my mind, the idea that these beings would need to lie in order to get their message accross "legally" is absurd. Why is lieing acceptable but giving an EXACT date not? You say they had to be covert in order to get past governments and whatever the reasoning was behind them giving a false date, this also makes no sense to me. How many people actually TRUELY took Nancy Lieders message to heart? Maybe a few thousand at best? Even if the date had been true why would this change the governments plans or cause problems?

Am I to believe the government would be worried about some woman on the internet proclaiming she is talking to aliens and that the world is about to end? Come on. Don't get me wrong, I believe in the Zeta's and Plaeideans and telepathy, ap'ing etc etc but how many of the "common folk" really do? 1 in a 1000? I bet that's even being highly generous. In my "real life" no one gives a crap about anything but getting by the day to day suffering that they call life. Why then, would I expect the government would be worried about one women on the internet claiming aliens are communicating with her?

I quit my job.

I left the "real world."

I did not plan for this position I am in now. I planned for a completely different future than I am experiencing now. I have no money. I have no job. I have bills that I cannot pay. I have a broken car that I cannot fix. I have a family that I cannot help support.

They say, time will make all this go away. But it's time that has taken my tomorrows and turned them into yesterdays.

Again. I am not angry. I do not blame you for anything. In fact I feel blessed. I am thankful. I now see things I never would have seen without this experience. Experience is the greatest teacher. It hurts me to look in the mirror at myself and realize what I have let happen.

I have made peace with myself. I have made peace with the past. I have been broken. Beaten. Smashed into a million pieces. Just like you always told me I would be.

You see. I do not doubt you. I still believe. Actually, I KNOW that the world will crumble and fall apart. I know that things will never be the same again and that dark days are ahead. I also know that after the darkness must come light. I also know that 2012 is a shift. I know this from the very core of my being. However, that is a long time from now, and God has sent me messages these last few days that time is on my side. So this time I will prepare from the inside out instead of from the outside in. I will listen to my heart and let love guide me to where I need to be.

So again I ask, Why? What purpose did  lieing serve? Was it to get those of us, me and others like me ... to go through what I have just been through?

Without this suffering, I do not see how I could be on the verge of this new world I am about to enter.

I simply want to understand.

A new dawn arises.

I am a messenger.

I will be a leader.

I will help change the world.  

I am an instrument of the lords peace awakening to my true destiny.

I do not Ap, I am not telepathic, but I am.

The gate has been opened.

I have been hiding for so long. Aimlessly drifting.

I am life itself.

I have been a prisoner for so long. So long...

No more.

Thank you.

Thank you for all you have tought me and helped me achieve. Without you I would never have made it to this moment in time. You will always have a place in my heart and my love for you will live on forever.

I await your answers with silent passion.

- All my love
- Daniel










Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 28, 2003, 10:57:49
Something is not true just because you feel it good or feel like it is fake. In my life i sayed many truths that many people didn´t believe (maybe they felt that it was false) and i sayed too, some lies in wich many had believed (they feel it like "true").

Feelings by itself don´t proof anything. Good sense, logical reason with some intuiton (the feelings), and some proofs are good enough.

This world it would be horrible if we were meant to believe anything that feel like true or false.

Kepler, an astronomer from the past, had felt that the planetery orbits were circular. But one day he figured out that they are elliptic instead. He was correct but he didn´t want to beleive in that because it didn´t feel good.

Even Einstein didn´t want to believe in the cosmic consequences of his theorie: the universe is expanding. He tried to resolve the problem by "adding" a constant to the formulas (that constant it was ilogical). He felt that the universe must not be in expansion; the universe must be stoped. But not, the world (even if that does not "feel" good or logical) is indeed expanding.

Has you can see, feelings and Truth are not always linked.

BTW: I must remember once again that i´m not trying to call liar to anyone here in the forum. I´m just calling the attention to the fact t that we cannot accept everything that it is sayed to us. Like someone sayed once: "Don´t believe in everything but be prepared to believe in anything" ´


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on August 28, 2003, 16:35:47
Greetings silentwitness78,

These are good questions and you deserve answers after the sacrifices you have made.

Central to this matter are the claims by Nancy on Zeta Talk of being advised by the Zeta of a global cataclysm to take place on May 15 2003 due to Planet X, a pole shift or both. It clearly did not happen and furthermore there is no sign it ever will happen, notwithstanding the sophisticated astronomical equipment around the Earth and in orbit. Some of these Earthly resources are seeing things happening billions of light years away, not to mention monitoring distant comets a fraction of the claimed size of Planet X.

It has to be said a planet of the claimed dimensions of Planet X would easily be monitored by a race as advanced as the Zeta who are capable of travelling vast distances across the physical universe in huge motherships. There is no sign of Planet X, pole shifts or indeed any form of disruption, notwithstanding the images at Zeta Talk.

Logic states there are only three alternatives:

1) The Zeta were radically incorrect in their predictions.
2) The Zeta were fabricating the Planet X situation for reasons unknown.
3) The Planet X situation and pole shift is true, but the Zeta are being misleading about the timing for some reason.

I agree with the people who say this is potentially extremely important at various levels. I certainly welcome some of our members communicating in this way with the Zeta and Pleiadian guides. However, if the Zeta and their emissaries are to be taken seriously at all levels, thereby furthering their mission for Earth and mankind, they must provide accurate information at all times in order to be taken seriously and to receive the cooperation they seek. I would very much like Mayatnik or one of the other members to present these concerns directly to the Zeta, and obtain their substantive response to post here.

We also need to be sure the Zeta are exactly who they say they are, with all respect to those involved. There are so many people out there allegedly channelling Masters, Archangels even God (see the series of books "Conversations with God"), not to mention the many who claim to be channelling Pleiadians, Arcturans and other ET's, we absolutely must know the true identity beyond doubt. To those who would say it is impossible to know the truth, I would say would you trust anything as important as this on any lesser basis, e.g. faith or guesswork?

I can state publicly here and now I believe these contacts with the Zeta and Pleiadians to be potentially extremely important, and I am fully prepared to provide whatever resources and assistance I possibly can and as is necessary to further the objectives of all concerned. But first we must be completely sure of exactly who we are working with, and exactly what their absolute and final agenda is.

I would like to thank everyone who has been involved in this project so far, and look forward to keeping informed.

With best regards,

Adrian.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: chill on August 28, 2003, 21:57:37
Commercial break sponsered by chill

« ONLY Rajneesh "Osho" could have done it.

When invited by a well-known religious organisation to speak, Rajneesh, on the spur of the moment, decided to play a practical joke on the organisers and the audience. He began talking about a strange and highly advanced society called "Sitnalta". The truth of the matter is that before delivering his speech, Rajneesh was reading about the mythical continent called "Atlantis". He just reversed the order to make it "Sitlanta"!

He told the gathering that in our body we had 17 chakras, not seven as mentioned in ancient Indian scriptures. The great ancient knowledge is lost, but a secret society of enlightened masters called "Sitlanta" still exists, and this society knew all the mysteries of life.

As people listened with rapt attention, Rajneesh went on and on with all sorts of nonsense he could come up with. He was surprised at the gullibility of his listeners. But an even greater surprise was yet to come. At the end of the session, the president of the society, who was totally floored, came up to him and said, that he had heard about that society and its activities.

Then letters started pouring in, says Rajneesh, One man went so far as to say that he was a member of the "Sitlanta" society. "I can vouch that whatsoever you have said is absolutely true," he averred. »

Author is Kuldip Dhiman in his 'balanced' critique of the book
New Man for the New Millennium by Osho,
edited and compiled by Ma Deva Sarito and Ma Kamaal Penguin Books, New Delhi.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on August 29, 2003, 02:11:19
INTERESTING STORY WITH A LESSON!

As an indirect result of my recent pendulum experimentation, I wasted a spontaneous OBE!  Insert

I have been trying for several days to induce an AP, but have not been successful for almost a week (My success ratio is only about 10% still [:I]).  Last night, after I gave up trying to consciously induce a projection, I went to bed.  As I was drifting off to sleep, I could feel my right hand "drifting" across the bed.  I don't know how to explain it, but in my mind it felt like my hand was being used almost like a Ouija board and was moving by itself.  I have been experimenting with my pendulum heavily the last few days, and I have recognized that part of me is uncomfortable with the practice because I am uncomfortable with the idea of "channelling".  I have become aware that I am not just cautios about, but that part of me is actually AFRAID of it.  As my hand started to move like this, it stirred up the fear I did not know I had, and so I mentally told whatever "entity" was "using me" to please leave me alone...that I was not comfortable with what was happening.

Just a few minutes ago, recollection of this event hit me totally out of the blue (I had totally forgotten the entire incident when I woke up and did not successfully access the memories through my morning dream recall excercises), and I clearly understood that my arm was only drifting because I had spontaneously projected!  I have experienced similar sensations many times, and those sensations have often stimulated my consciousness and allowed me to become conscious in my energy body and enjoy a vivid OBE.  This time, my subconscious fears about "channelling" completely warped my perception of a familiar experience and I failed to see it for what it truly was. I wasted a perfectly good OBE because I allowed my fears to get the better of me!  Insert

I just thought I would share this, because perhaps my story will help someone else from making a similar mistake.  I'm not particularly successful so far with getting what I believe to be accurate answers our of my pendulum, but it sure did teach me a vivid lesson about how our fears can totally blind us to something that would otherwise be quite obvious!  [:)]

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Lynfer on August 29, 2003, 12:00:42
I had a strange dream. It seems I am remenbering the only part I want to. Anyway In the dream , My body was tired my eyes heavy. I was under a building similar to the typical museum I think. I wasn't in the building but outside of it. Any way I saw those kind of chairs you see in parks except it was clean and had a seat like a sofa. I lay stomach down on it. At this point I am not sure if I closed my eyes in the dream itself or if my eyes were still half open. Ithen saw a UFO going in the sky surrounded by airplanes. I remenbered what had been talked about on the forum about UFOS and Alien races. So I tried to get up to see it wll before it totally passed, but I had No control over my body in the dream and could not move it. It felt heavy.The UFO surrounded by airplanes passed out of my sight. And I felt aome kind of laserish-buzzing around my body in the dream. I felt it so strongly. Then I thought that it was the Zeta who had just done something to my body. I thought this still in the dream. THis thought in the dream came because I hadthen thought of the conversations made by mayatnik,parmeion,ed, and the zeta,Including the pleiadian in which they mentioned that they worked on people through dreams. It is interesting to note that I remenbered it at this very moment when I saw soulfire's post. And also that I had seen in a workbook a way to contact the pleiadians and ascended masters. I had tried it , I amot sure if they really came but I think I felt a presence when I called upon them. I did this twice though.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: goingslow on August 29, 2003, 14:01:57
Im wondering if Mayatnik will respond to silentwitness's concerns.  Then again doesnt all that "why the lies.. I listened to you and look at me now" detract from the real point?  The pleidians are coming and boy are they ticked.

Adrian I feel you should take silent witness's post off.  I think it makes Mayatnik uncomfortable along with many others who might get the wrong idea.  First one thinks hey.. maybe these dates are BS.. maybe every guide coming through isnt an advanced pleidian guide.

Then what?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 29, 2003, 15:23:26
If this pleidians or zeta aliens are here to help us and prevent against the End or something, so i must say that (has Adrian refered before me) that they must precise on what they say. Such "high" beings cannot fail on that terrific predictions about the future. If they are very high and sage and are capable of seing the future, etc, etc,  they cannot fail.

If they are failing so much (as they are) someone like me that does not accept every thing just because "feels good" (many time i "feel good" on things that are wrong...), must conclude one of this:

_ Or the story about the contact it is not true, it´s a fake, someone invented it.

_ or the aliens are really dangerous. Yeah, that´s correct: they are dangerous and joking with us, telling lies and make us being confuse. Someone posted something is this topic, refering to the fact that such "beautiful" (i´m being sarcastic: aliens don´t "feel good" to me) beings changes it´s life in the worst way. Read the posts starting in page 22 and you will find the refered post.

There are many ufo cases, direct contact with aliens or there ships, etc, that end in very bad ways. I advise all of you to read the book: "Les Ovnis: Une Menace pour L´Humanité?" (original title) from Richard D.Nolane (maybe you can find it in Amazon.com).

You will see that aliens are not friendly...anyone: pleidians, arcturians, zetas, greys, etc,etc, they all are the same: astral garbage.

Humans are the most inteligent race on the planet, yet the most dangerous. I suppose that aliens are even more inteligent...and dangerous. Do you think that they cross the space just for saying "Hello i love you!"? No, of course not, there are no good people or good aliens. In all my life i just saw self-egoistic people, that helps (when they help) the others if they can get something with that. Goodness, in the earth and in the heavens it´s just an illusion, and that it´s not different with stupid aliens that are treating us like rocks!

"what would you do if you saw an alien in your room?"

My answer: i would give him a good sound thrashing, since they are playing with humanity for a long time ago...




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on August 29, 2003, 16:15:48
quote:
Originally posted by Kazbadan

You will see that aliens are not friendly...anyone: pleidians, arcturians, zetas, greys, etc,etc, they all are the same: astral garbage.

Humans are the most inteligent race on the planet, yet the most dangerous.

there are no good people or good aliens. In all my life i just saw self-egoistic people, that helps (when they help) the others if they can get something with that. Goodness,


I don't even know what to say Kazbadan.  The fact that you do not perceive any goodness that is not deliberately selfish in ANY person or being makes it clear to me that your perception of reality is so radically different from mine that I have trouble even relating to what that must be like for you to live like that.

All I know for sure is that you do not HAVE to live like that.  Many people have learned that you can love for love's sake alone without expecting anything in return.  The act of giving or expressing love unconditionally is perhaps the single most rewarding experience I have discovered.  You do "get something" by expressing love, but that something is not anything that you have to "take from" another person.

Try is sometime.  Open your heart, invest something of yourself in somebody else without caring what they choose to do with it or even whether or not they are able to accept it.  Love them anyway no matter what they do.  If you try that just once, you will feel something.  You will realize in that one instant that you became what you used to believe could not exist.  Think about it?

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 29, 2003, 17:32:41
Soulfire: i only have two choices: to love everybody or to not love anyone. There is no middle term. I cannot love just a single person, because if i give unconditional and pure love to just one person, without expecting anything (love without any passion or desire) the consequence of such love is that i will love everybody. If i love one i will love all.

About goodness, i was not exagerating: about 99% people in the earth think that they can give love to others, but that´s bovine excrement. They love their husbands and wifes, or sons, family and friends. But that´s not true love. Like Jesus say "Love someone that love us it´s easy, but love your enemy it´s indeed an act of great love!". I´m not christian but i have other phrase from Jesus: "There is no one that for loving the others is capable of abandon is family and house and is treasures".

I´m talking about that pure love. There are not to much people wwith such qualities in the world: Mother Teresa (and many of her followers) for example, it was one of that people. Buda it´s another example.

It´s diffcult to find someone like that. Every people that i know only follow it´s intents. Take this example: you met a girl, very beautiful. Because of her beauty (and she is nice too) you get in love with her. Do you really love her? No, you just want something like her caress, have it with you, make sex, blablabla. By other words: you need her love, you need that she loves you. If your are trying to conquer her, but then happens that a friend of yours is the lucky one that will be her lover, then you get sad. After a few days you will forget the case and try to conquer other girl. But the first one it´s not anymore in your heart. You don+t "love" her anymore.That´s not true love.

That´s what i was refering to. Since there is no true love, potentially we can expect anything from anyone (i saw many reactions from many people that i know, reactions that i would never expect- even i am not an exception to this rule). That´s not exactly evilness, it´s more like non-goodness, or even better: to have the eyes closed. We all need to open it.

With all respect, i think that your vision of the world is to optimistic. At my eyes i can only an empty world. We need to awake.

But i am no one. I cannot speak like this, pretending that i´m a sage. I am part of that people that does not give any love to anyone. I´m just a piece of s*** (sorry for the bad word) that is dreaming in transforming itself in pure light.

Many times we spoke in here about "feeling good" about something. About the world itself i can only feel a great emptyness. Unfortunatly i think i´m not wrong.

Maybe i have a bad karma that makes me see the world like this. Maybe my life has make me see the world like this, but i think that my thought are not too far away from the truth.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 29, 2003, 18:21:14
Kazbadan- I understand what you are saying and I agree with you, in premise. Very few people have been able to live and exhibit uncondition love. It is, in my opinion, the ideal goal for humanity, and also the hardest thing to obtain. I have often contemplated what you have just described.

My ideal would not be to love my children or my husband more than my neighbor. In the greater scheme we are all one and we should strive for the goal of equal love to everyone. However, that is not the current reality.

I think Soulfire's point, at least as I interpreted it, is that its extremely difficult (not sure about impossible) to go from no love to unconditional love instantaneously. I think we each need to try and live/exhibit unconditional love in moments. And, with sincerity and inner growth/realization, those moments will gradually lengthen and increase in frequency.

I know that I strive for this and will continue to strive for this feeling. I am not always succesfull, but occasionally I am. And I am always looking for ways to improve my ability to express this. Don't know if I'll be completely successful this lifetime, but that's my goal. Only time will tell.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2003, 18:31:26
Greetings Kazbadan

quote:
Originally posted by Kazbadan
such "beautiful" (i´m being sarcastic: aliens don´t "feel good" to me) beings changes it´s life in the worst way. Read the posts starting in page 22 and you will find the refered post.

There are many ufo cases, direct contact with aliens or there ships, etc, that end in very bad ways.

You will see that aliens are not friendly...anyone: pleidians, arcturians, zetas, greys, etc,etc, they all are the same: astral garbage.




I can understand your concerns,but, with respect, this is not H. G. Wells book and film "War of the Worlds".

Earth humans always see extra terrestrials as evil because Earth humans always judge beings and situations they do not understand as evil. In other words humans see these beings from other planets as a reflection of themselves. This is no different to religious people believing in "satan". People always anticipate the worst, it is a human trait.

Lets look at things from a Universal perspective. The fundamental meaning of life is for every human to ascend back to our creator, The All, the First Cause, the Prime Creator, God if you like through a process of enoblement over aeaons or time. When mankind evolves beyond the cycle of reincarnation, he has transcended his or her ego, achieved equilibrium of the elements and attained a certain state of pefection. The process of ascent then continues in the higher spheres, the Mental planes. Now, the Zeta Reticulans, Pleiadians and others must be far, far in advance of Earth humans on the path. They seem to have experienced their wars just as we have, but they are all behind them now. Another thing, why would a race who already live on multiple planets travel all the way here to do anything negative to this one? And finally, the most powerful force in the Universe is Unconditional love between all of the children of The All. The Divine essence of a Zeta Reticulan or Pleiadian is no different to an Earth human, we are all immortal Spirits and equal aspects of our creator. Therefore to treat the Zeta's or Pleiadians as different, or evil, or untrustworthy is no different to "white people" treating "black people" differently. The reason "whites" treat "blacks" differently or badly is for no other reason they are different which triggers a primitive human trait of mistrust or even hate. What I am saying is, try to look at the Zeta Reticulans, Pleidians, Arcturians and others through the eyes of Spirit and your Higher-Self, and not through the eyes of an incarnated human being. You might say, "what if the Zeta, Pleiadians and others are not as advanced and are therefore still have primitive ego driven traits like humans"? The answer is simple, they would not have the ability to travel across the physical Universe in huge space vehicles from places many, many light years away in earth terms. Please consider all of these facts.

With best regards,

Adrian.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 29, 2003, 18:45:02
Adrian-
I agree with your entire post, except for the last few sentences. To me, technological advancement does not necessarily mean spiritual advancement. So, in theory, they could be at the same spiritual evolution as humanity, but simply much further advanced technologically speaking.

But I get your point, not trying to stir up trouble!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 29, 2003, 19:05:04
I don´t agree with that point of view Adrian. Look at us, humans. We have great technology.If you compare what we achieved in technology and intelectually (theories about the universe, maths, etc) you will see that animals could "think" something like "This guys are great, they can only be Gods!". Even a cat or a dog will "think" that: "This humans are always making strange things, they give me food, and they are always caress me, and treating me very well [this a domestic dog "talking" to himself]. I suppose that they Gods with such technology and goodness". Sorry little dog you are wrong: humans gice you food because you are funny, nothing more. By the way dog, our technology and intelligence  are good, if compared with you.

Maybe aliens are not evil, but in a similar way as related above, they can be equally bad. We are gods compared with animals, and we have the potential of goodnes in our spirits, but we have a greatest power or inclination, to act in an evil way. Why not the same with aliens?

This is not like the "Alien" movie, but we must be carefull. Trust in them may be the difference between life and death. If they are good, and they want proof that to us, so they must act accordingly. Until now i only saw scary events related to ufos. There are more stories about bad encounters with aliens that good encounters (althought the neutral encounters are the majority.

Maybe you will say that that encounters are rare, maybe they were just made by some rebel aliens, that are bad. But that it will only worst things, since that it would meant that are aliens have the seed of evil too. if some rare aliens can do the evil, so the others can do if they change their minds. ^They are not different from humans, some of them are good, others not. And for supreme beings like they are supposed to be, that it´s not good to see.



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Vallk on August 29, 2003, 22:57:56
Adrian, I agree with your last post.
Kazbadan, I wish we'd be like gods to animals and stop using them and torturing them the way we do and let them be who they really are, with respect.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on August 29, 2003, 23:00:54
Dear Kazbadan,

as you raised some legitimate questions, I'd like to shed some light on them... I will start this post by having a conversation with the Zetas about it, because this is about them. As always I use the known colour scheme:

Myself (E:) in blue,
my guide Perena (P:) in orange,
and the Zetas (Z:) in green.


E: Perena, do you agree with me that I should let the Zetas themselves speak about the points raised here? I will comment on it later to give my point of view, too.
P: I agree in that, as this is the purpose of this thread now. The Zetas are willing to explain anything brought forward. Your own thoughts about it will further clarify things.
E: Good. Can you then link me up to them?
P: Here we go.
Z: Hi Edi. We were watching the thread and will gladly comment about it from our point of view.
E: Thank you. I'd first like to cover why you don't show publicly.
Z: Let's look at what would happen. Imagine we would take one of our crafts, land in a big city, get out and give out flowers to everyone. This would bring some serious problems with it. First: The government would immediately do everything to suppress it, as they always do.
E: Why would it be a concern to the government?
Z: The governments (i.e. the people behind it) are anxious to control everything. Because they have no power over us, they would try with all means to regain their absolute control, regardless of possible losses... many people 'disappear' because they know too much. The one who directs and controls information is in power.
E: That's intelligible. This would mean the appearance would be put down, witnesses be silenced and the whole story ridiculed?
Z: Most probably.
E: Okay... what else?
Z: Go around and tell people you just have seen an UFO. What do you think their response would be? Most of them would declare you crazy. The second and major point here is: People DO NOT WANT TO believe in this.. and if their are confronted with it, they react with fear and would try to explain it away somehow. Whether you have pictures/videos doesnt matter, because people feel GREATLY uncomfortable about the idea of UFOs and aliens in their mind. Their whole view of the world would be shattered in pieces, causing much confusion and disturbance - and we are not allowed to do that. This would be forcing something on humans mind, which is against the rules.
P: We are talking about the 'common man' here.
E: So under what circumstances would you appear publicly?
Z: If nobody was interested in it, we would have no problem with coming down. There will be a time when we will be seen freely, but it is not upon us to decide when. The third point is that such a forcing appearance without doubt would cause chaos not only on an individual scale, but also on a greater scale... everything believed to be true by society, religion, science etc. would be wiped away at once. Do you see now what could be the result of this?
E: I do... I let it to the reader to ponder upon this.
Z: Good. Do you have any more questions? I think you have...
E: Do you expect people to just accept what you say here as true and that's it?
Z: Absolutely not. First and foremost, we want everyone to use and develop his common sense. This means neither swallowing it by 'blind faith' and acting by it like a sheep, nor rejecting it inconsiderate because of 'blind fear'. What we offer is information, in dialoge format. We do not promise to tell you exactly what will happen, though... only as far as you should know.
E: But you do tell the truth? What about May 15th on Zetatalk?
Z: We invite everyone to find out by himself why this specific date was given. We give a little hint: everything is on the Zetatalk site. Combined with common sense (again) you will gain a bigger picture.
E: Do you just give us anything which could be true or false and say 'use common sense'?
Z: No. We do give accurate answers... but many people miss understanding on how to deal with them. We will want to talk about it later, but for now we let it for the reader to find his answers in this regard. With this, we should end this session if there are no more questions from your side.
E: I don't have any more questions at the moment.
Z: Okay. We will come back to other topics later, but at the moment (in the next few conversations) we primarily want to state what we are giving you and how to deal with it.
E: Good... I will contact you as appropriate.
Z: See you then.
E: Bye



So you see what their opinion on this is. If you accuse them of being liars and dangerous because some people made wrong decisions... well... think about it. For the moment, I have nothing more to add, but I'll appreciate your response and be glad to address your concerns as this develops. It's important to state clearly what everyone expects of this... we all make implicit assumptions in some or other way, that's where communication difficulties originate from. I intend to discuss these things in a calm way ... in order for everyone to gain a broader perspective and more understanding.

Love and Ice Cream :)
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: SeventhVirgo on August 29, 2003, 23:29:46
What about me?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on August 30, 2003, 02:08:11
I think the argument that a species with hyper-advanced technology beyond our own would also have more spiritual development can be summarized as follows:

The human race, with our current level of technological development is on the brink of a choice.  We can either choose to evolve spiritually, or we will evnetually decimate or destroy ourselves.  Note that I use the term "evolve spiritually" in its most general sense: we need to collectively learn to let go of fear and hate.  If we survive much longer as a species, and you look at what the survivors are "like", you will find one of two possible things:

1) We will have destroyed enough of each other and our technology that we no longer have the capability of mass destruction.  We will then be temporarily safe from destroying ourselves.  Society and technology will eventually re-develop, and again we will be forced to make the same collective decision with the same two possible answers.

2) The survivors will have learned that living in fear and hatred is not the answer, and therefore learn to move beyond it to love and understanding.

Any race that has the capability of mass destruction that is ruled by fear and hate will eventually contain a person who will unleash that destruction as a direct result of that fear and hate.  They will probably believe they are protecting themselves from their "enemies".  Look at what is happening with the USA and terrorists right now.  How long do you think it will be before somebody who is desperate enough to use it gets their hands on a nuclear or biological weapon and is "pushed too far"?  You can clearly see the violence is escalating.  The terrorists hate the US and the US wants to kill the terrorists to "protect themselves".  They kill some terrorists, and a few innocent civilians by accident in the process, and many of the people hurt by the loss of the people killed in the fighting grow to hate "their enemies" even more and want to kill them, etc.  The only solution is to begin realizing the obvious: that trying to kill "our enemies" is simply not working...

It seems logical that any other civilization with enough technology to develop weapons of mass destruction would have had to make a similar choice.

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Michael_E on August 30, 2003, 02:18:14
i tried out the pendulum method of dowsing using the instructions given by Mayatnik today. I used a cotton thread ( i took from a pair of boxers, since i had nothing else) and a key i dont use anymore. right away i asked for a yes and the key swung forward and back, next i asked for a no and it swung left to right. Some observations:

I asked:

is my name mike(which it is): swung forward and back, yes

Is my name richard: no

do i have a guide: yes

is the guide answering the questions through me: yes

is my higher self answering the questions i am asking: no

at this point i wanted to go back to my first question and asked it again, with the same response. then i tried to ask the question once again this time consciously thinking no to see if i could elicit a no response and low and behold the pendulum swung no. this made me think that you have to be in the mindset of not expecting a certain response in order to avoid conscious manipulation of which way it swings, but at the same time if you close yourself off to any response in an attempt to keep  yourself from interferring with the answer you ll get a still pendulum.

I wanted to find out the guides name, so i asked if we could play a game of hangman, the answer was yes.

made three rows of letters and asked systematically if the first letter was in the top row; if yes went to each individual letter-so on so forth.

The name i got was Lakhe, pronounced laakhee.

I then asked if i should post this on astralpulse and got an answer of yes.

I showed my brother, and i didnt work for any question he asked me to ask it.




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: h2owong on August 30, 2003, 02:36:18
Ok, I must admit that I fail to follow the whole thread.  So I just write down what I think.

If there is good, there will be bad.  If there is Angel, there will be devil.  Alien should both have good and bad.  The problem is who is who.

Within cyberspace, everything is base on information.  People will simplify to "source of information".  No matter you are human or alien, there is no different.  What important is the information you give out.  Every source of information need to earn their credibility by the accuracy of what they have given out before.  When information cannot be test immediately, credibility is considered to decide whether to trust the information or not.

The information that Zeta give out by now all cannot be proves or disprove.  Pole shift~ only time can tell.  Abduction~ 1/1,000,000 to have the chance to have a try.
Since information that Zeta give out cannot be prove by now, and their credibility hasn't build up yet.  Trusting the information totally is not a good idea.  

Instead of all those big secrets.  I would to see more useful information.  Information that normal human can work on.  Like   energy body development, nature of Astral Plane, earth history, etc.

Thanks



Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on August 30, 2003, 17:40:47
Greetings Novice,

First of all, reasoned debate and question is not stirring up trouble; they are some of the reasons these forums exist. Please do not be influenced by what happened to "goingslow", he overstepped all boundaries of what is acceptable on these forums in the space of two posts. It is extremely important these questions are asked and answers provided. This is one reason I very much welcome these contacts with the Zeta. We can only guess as to the answers, the Zeta can provide answers when asked in a Spirit of cooperation. I would like to organise things here so all transcripts of communications with the Zeta are in context and in chronological order.

With regards to your question:

quote:
Originally posted by Novice

Adrian-
I agree with your entire post, except for the last few sentences. To me, technological advancement does not necessarily mean spiritual advancement. So, in theory, they could be at the same spiritual evolution as humanity, but simply much further advanced technologically speaking.

But I get your point, not trying to stir up trouble!



I certainly agree with you in principle. However, even mankind is beginning the Spiritual ascent slowly but surely. There are increasingly more "Ascended" humans in the higher/inner spheres, lower densities who, through hard work upon themselves have progressed beyond the cycle of incarnation and now assist mankind. If this progress is extrapolated forward a few millions of years, one would think a large proportion of the race will have "Ascended". Of course, we have no real concept of the entire scale of things. We know we have been evolving for several millions of years and the average human has achieved a state of development equivalent to the fourth level of the plane of the human mind out of seven. The most advanced are into the fifth plane, with the most advanced, the adepts and Masters the sixth and seventh planes and even beyond. This is the destiny of all mankind, to achieve these levels and beyond. What we d not know is when the process comes to an end on Earth, i.e. when new Spirits are no longer incarnating for the first step on the path. Maybe it is an infinite process but I don't think so; there must come a time when the physical planet has outserved it's usefulness, and it is possible this might even happen at the time of the pole shift.

The point is, The Zeta Reticulans, Pleiadians have followed exactly the same path but are millions of years ahead in temporal terms. It is logical to assume therefore much of their race must be highly advanced upon the path. The question therefore is are the Zeta in physical incarnation in order to operate in the physical Universe, or is their race still in the same cycle as Earth but millions of years on? Either way, there must be many highly advanced Zeta in the lower densities, higher vibrations, equivalent to our Celestial or Cosmic planes, who are guiding the ascent of their own and other races. So yes, your question is valid, physical development does not necessarily equate to Spiritual development, but with respect to the Zeta in communication here, we simply do not know the answers to this question.

Thank you Edi for your recent questions and answers with the Zeta.

With best regards,

Adrian.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: clandestino on August 30, 2003, 19:47:16
Hi there Edi ! hope you are well.

 
quote:
E: But you do tell the truth? What about May 15th on Zetatalk?
Z: We invite everyone to find out by himself why this specific date was given. We give a little hint: everything is on the Zetatalk site. Combined with common sense (again) you will gain a bigger picture.


Have you looked at the zetatalk site to gain more understanding on this issue ? I admit that I know little about the subject matter within this thread, so I'm not really in a position to find out for myself. But this particular point does interest me.

Kind regards,
Mark


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on August 30, 2003, 20:56:41
Greetings,

The best place to look for the latest information in view of the non-appearance of Niburu on May 15 is on the "What's new" pages of Zeta Talk:

http://www.zetatalk.com/index/z03.htm

This post of 23 May on ZetaTalk, seven days after the non-appearance might provide some clues:

As can be seen from the actions of the US and Indonesian governments scant days ahead of and continuing after our announced date of May 15, 2003, they fully intend to harm hundred of millions of their citizens through martial law, declared such in Indonesia and called terrorism level Red by Homeland Security. What is martial law, if not ordering citizens to remain in their homes? What effect does this have on citizens about within cities where buildings will tumble and crush them, or along coast or in lowlands sure to be inundated by tidal waves? Death, injury with no rescue, and massive dieoff. Is this the intent of those in command in those governments, sworn to protect their citizens and collecting taxes to this end? There can be no doubt, and one has only to read the actions of these governments to ascertain this.

Why did we allow Nancy, who has labored though the mine field and put herself at risk with ZetaTalk, to be so humiliated as to announce to a broad audience live radio show very specific dates, which were promptly missed? At a time when Planet X is so close as to be competing with the Sun at noon, visible by the unaided eye, and well tracked to this point by many sunrise and sunset sightings and photos, in the manner and in the time frame we predicted, and at a time when earthquakes have increased to the point, as we predicted, to being noticeable, affecting population centers so they cannot be denied by underreporting in the quake databases, the bad dates stand as an exception. And what is the effect of this gambit, an acknowledged white lie on our part, on those in the US and Indonesian governments who would murder their citizens by the hundreds of millions?

They cannot closely coordinate blocking a city for a specific date and time, thus having to either order a perpetual state of readiness or be prepared to muster a quick blockade, neither workable.
They must either share the true agenda with numerous local agencies, in order to have cooperation for a quick muster, or anticipate failure when calling a sudden and unplanned blockage.
Local agencies would be sympathetic to the local populace and rebellion would likely ensue.
A perpetual state of readiness requires agencies to be focused only on exercises, and not distracted from their regular work, and any natural disaster ensuing would shatter this state.
Natural disasters such as imploding buildings in the stretch zone, or strong quakes or volcanoes in compression zones, would divert resources from the ready status waiting to blockade cities.
The governments increasingly have to explain the perpetual state of readiness, constant exercises, in the face of a lack of actual terrorism, thus losing credibility among those required to carry out a blockade.
Incidences of natural disasters, and increasing visibility of Planet X, change the focus from tearooms to natural disaster and thus an order to remain in their homes would seem inappropriate to citizens, who would rebel.
And what is the effect on the common man, being denied even at this late date any honest information on what is about to devastate their lives?

For those waiting for an undeniable sight that the earth changes we have predicted, rotation stoppage followed by red dusting will be that undeniable sign, and any announced date ignored until such signs are evident.
For those wanting to leave for a safe location ahead of rotation stoppage, but having ties to their ordinary life and obligations, rapid earth changes such as earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, as well as a perceptible slowing of rotation, will be their clue, regardless of published dates which are not palpable.
For those who have made very early changes in their lives, moving to safe locations and settling in there, an exact date is not crucial.
For the vast majority of mankind who has not even heard of a possible pole shift, announcing dates is irrelevant.
For the large portion of humanity who cannot move to safe locations or make changes in their lives, as their lives are a struggle for subsistence on a daily basis, announced dates are irrelevant.
For those who are traveling, for work or pleasure, they have chosen to be out and about at this time, or to place themselves in such a position by their employment choice, and thus are not taking the message seriously, nor would they despite any announced dates.
Thus, an announced date, where it would be convenient, does not change the outcome of preparation for the common man, where it would greatly be used by those who would murder their citizens, or take advantage of others, and thus we decline to give any dates. Watching the earth changes, and the behavior of those in the corridors of power, will be the best clues.





Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 31, 2003, 10:38:28
Adrian-
After I posted my last response, I though I may have umintentionally implied the wrong thing, and I did from your response. The "not trying to stir up trouble" was meant as a joke, light comment. I was not referencing recent events with Goingslow. Although I have been reading numerous threads and feel thatI should state here. That was in no way meant as a criticism to you. I've only been here a short while and have read a number of threads. I would not presume to criticize you for your actions in recent days. Although many have questionned them, just as many have supported them.

The problem is, that no matter what issues are involved, everyone will have a different opinion and varying thresholds of leniency/tolerance. But the reality is that you are the one who holds the responsibility for maintaining the forum. I haven't seen anything to indicate that you run it as a dictator (if you don't like what I say, then you are banned) nor do I think you let people run rampant over other's feelings/opinions with disregard for both. You do your best to maintain both free speech/opinion tempered with respect for each other.

I don't want to say that I support your decision, because I personally feel that's a bit condescending. You are an adult and the administrator and don't need my approval for your actions. However, I do completely understand your reasoning and agree that your decision was probably for the best for a majority, although not all, people on this forum. But no matter what you decide, never will EVERYONE be happy with the result. So don't second guess yourself. I think you are doing a wonderful job.

Now, to the point we are discussing here, re the Zeta. I understand what you and Soulfire are stating. I guess my only hesitation is that while logic/untuition would suggest that they are spiritually more advanced. There is also the possibility that they are not. My only suggestion is that we be aware of both. Not be blindly open to everything they say, but rather take what they say with some caution and common sense. I personally am leaning towards your position regarding their intentions. But I've always been a bit on the cautious side. So I remain open and optimistic, but I don't follow blindly. Hope that clarifies things a bit.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Kazbadan on August 31, 2003, 10:56:39
Hi Adrian, you poested
"and increasing visibility of Planet X"

what does that mean? Planet X isn´t the one placed about 1/3 of distance between Sun and Oort Cloud (1 year light from us - the place where  comets "born"?

What news do you have about planet X. I´m interested on that topic.

For ED: i have a question for you: since aliens don´t want to show up to humans (has you say in you conversation with Zetas) why do they appear many times to people? There are many cases in wich massive numbers of people see ufos. Even in my city at 30 years ago there was a case in wich many people saw ufos. They could make a little appearance on my city :), proofing at leats to me and to some more people their true nature.

What about Fatima?! Fatima is one place in Portugal wich is believed that Maria (Jesus Mother) has showed up to 3 lttle shepards and some time after, appeared to 50000 people. But there are many evidences that it was an ufo phenomenon. What say about this? Why did they do that (the appearence)?


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 31, 2003, 11:18:00
I've got a question for anyone communicating with these beings right now. Has anyone communicated with beings other than Pleadian (sp?), Zeta and Arcturian? I'm a bit confused (still) about my 'source' of information.

It originally said it was my higher self responding. And answered this when asked many times. Lately, since I posted asking if anyone can confirm the description of aliens that I met in the astral, I'm now getting strange answers:

Are you an alien? Yes
Are you my guardian angel? Yes
Are you my higher self? Yes
Are you giving me correct answers? Yes
You've given me incorrect answers before. Yes
Are you giving me incorrect answers now? No
Are you a light being? Yes
Are you a Pleadian? No
Are you a Zeta? No
Are you what I've seen referred to as a grey? No
Are you an Arcturian? No
ARe you one of the 28 species Parmenion mentioned currently surrounding Earth? Yes
Do you work with the Pleadians? No
Do you work with the Zetas? No
Do you work with the Arcturians? No
Do the Pleadians know who you are? Yes
Do they know what you are here to do? Yes
Are you here to somehow help or assist humans? Yes
Are you affiliated with what I've seen called the 'dark ones' or something like that? No
Do you believe in a higher source, supreme being, creator, what I refer to as God? Yes
Are you here in support of his 'plan'? Yes
Can Mayatnik or Parmenion confirm this if I ask them? Yes
Should I ask them? Yes
Are you the alien I met in the astral last month? Yes
Do you have something to tell me? Yes

Can anyone 'confirm' any of this? Edi/Parmenion can you ask your Pleadian guides if there is a race fitting the description I posted last week currently orbiting the EArth? And if so, are they contacting me? And can you determine what their job is in all of this, since its apparently different from the Pleadians and Zetas?

Thanks a bunch!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Adrian on August 31, 2003, 11:39:46
Greetings Novice,

quote:
Originally posted by Novice

Are you an alien? Yes
Are you my guardian angel? Yes
Are you my higher self? Yes



Most of the exchange with your pendulum sounds plausible except for the above.

You Guardian Angel is in fact your Higher-Self, the two are often considered to be different but they are not, so from that point of view the answers where correct.

However, your Higher-Self is most certainly not an alien, it is the highest and most Divine aspect of yourself transcending all other aspects of yourself, physical, etheric, Astral and Mental. So I really do not know what that answer was about.

As for other beings, in one of the exchanges the "Reptilians" were mentioned as operating out of the Solomon Islands. I have no idea or position on this except to mention the David Icke books which apparently claim (I haven't read any of them myself) major government and personalities such as the Bush's, the Queen of England and others are incarnated Reptilian beings attempting to control the world in a conspiracy. The plot thickens! It almost looks like Earth is the equivalent of an inter-galactic game of chess at times with the white pieces (Zeta, Pleiadians etc.) and the dark pieces (Reptilians etc.). One day the truth will be known!

With best regards,

Adrian.




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on August 31, 2003, 14:37:59
Thanks Adrian. Actually, I completely agree. That's why the next several questions were askin whether or not they were giving me correct answers. That's the first time I got a Yes to all three questions. This morning, it said Yes to alien and No to Angel and Higher Self.

Sorry, Mayatnik, but this is the part that I find frustrating. I don't understand how these types of incorrect answers is supposed to 'teach' me something. Although, I could just be missing the bigger questoin (which wouldn't be out of the ordinary).

For the most part, the responses I get to questions is fairly consistent. But again, the responses are highly incredulous. Thus I keep coming back to the "who are you really" question.

Any assistance here would be greatly appreciated!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on August 31, 2003, 15:50:03
quote:
Originally posted by Novice

Now, to the point we are discussing here, re the Zeta. I understand what you and Soulfire are stating. I guess my only hesitation is that while logic/untuition would suggest that they are spiritually more advanced. There is also the possibility that they are not.


I was just summarizing my understanding of why that assumption is often made - not saying that I believe it with absolute certainty.  It does seem logical to me and feels likely, but I always try to keep an open mind.  When I use the term "open mind", I also mean open to the possibility that things are not how I perceive them to be "logical" or "feel" to be true.

While I find this entire topic fascinating, I am still just watching with an open mind.  I have not made any semi-final decisions yet about what I believe.  

I have had the pleasure of talking with Mayatnik some on MSN and he has been great.  He has answered my questions to the best of his ability, always shown complete respect, seems very humble, displays a genuine desire to help people in general, and has never asked anything of me whatsoever (including that I accept anything he sais as "truth").  I simply could not ask anything more of anyone than Mayatnik has offered to me freely.  Just my experiences for whatever they are worth...

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on August 31, 2003, 22:07:49
Hi fellow fellows,

you may have often heared of people ‘requesting a guide’ when they are lucid dreaming / astral travelling, to the effect that someone appears to lead you around and show you answers to your questions. There are many beings out there who answer such calls - your thoughts are being directed by your intentions to a corresponding mind... corresponding in the sense that self-oriented thoughts will go to self-oriented beings, and sincere requests for guidance will go to an appropriate, 'positive' being. To put it simple: like attracts like. That’s how requests for communication are sent out and answered on more subtle planes, equivalent to knocking on a certain door down here on earth.
We have an interesting example of this in Novice’s experience she had one month ago. After becoming lucid, she asked for a guide and was shown some things (see near the bottom of page 22 of this thread). I asked my guide to explain it to me and gained some interesting insights. The first person that appeared was one of the 28 races who were mentioned earlier to be ‘watching’ earth. The main duty of this race, and of the person who appeared first to Novice, is to relay communication between us and all those higher beings. After answering a ‘call’, they see what the person is in need of - in order to direct them to a specific guide, if appropriate. Novice wanted to get answers about karma and the pendulum, so the ‘relay guide’ called someone who could answer these questions for her. The latter guide appeared to be of Arcturian origin - the Arcturians are the ones who built and provided the ‘mothership’ which is orbiting the earth in a distance of about 100,000 miles. Concerning the appearance of the aliens, which changed at one point: we are shown many things in ‘disguise’, either in order not to disturb us too much, or not to reveal the full truth at the time... but as Novice wanted to know if they were aliens, she was shown.
This should mostly answer Soulfire’s question about having a personal experience with one of those many extraterrestrials. A call may be put out in (lucid) dreams, projections, even in waking state (e.g. using the pendulum - that’s why approaching it with a ‘negative’ attitude is only a hindrance in reaching the operators behind it). In altered states of consciousness it’s often very easy to discern and receive guidance because you just see it - in waking consciousness one normally doesn’t know what to listen for, even if it’s there, so it’s not so easy in the beginning to recognize it... but absolutely feasible, if one knows what to look for.

Squeek, you had a pleasant session there ... your questioning is good ... do what you did with the questions about astral projections with all the other topics, too: don’t be satisfied with the first answer, ask more and more to discover a multitude of different facets of a topic. Don’t worry about the actual length of your sessions, and feel free to post more of them.
Michael_E, it’s nice to see that you’re having a good rapport and are getting accurate responses with a pendulum as simple as a key on a thread. Thoughts and intent do influence the pendulum, that’s why a relaxed, meditative state of mind is the way to go... watching the swinging pendulum and ‘listening’ for the answer actually brings the mind to such a state. You can ask more about the mechanism of the pendulum and the person on the other side of the line... your interest and intuition will surely lead you to interesting discoveries.

Squeek wrote:
quote:

I did this not only for information for me, but to remind everyone that you don't have to ask these 4 members everything... if you bought / made a pendulum



That’s an important point you state here. Nobody depends on other people here, it’s the other way round: everyone is free to explore on his own. Chill wrote about ‘a strange and highly advanced society called “Sitnalta”’. This shows how man is dependent on ‘outer truth’: in general, everyone believes in something and wants to hear things which make him feel more comfortable and support his already existing belief system. The problem is that often new information is just swallowed without questioning... does it fit? Does it feel right? Have I considered enough possibilities? Do I see all the facets? Before you ask about credibility of outside sources, ask yourself what you believe to be true. To make it clear what the first and foremost purpose of the pendulum here is: to see what ideas one carries around, to make all the unconscious thoughts and structures (imposed upon us by government, media, society etc.) which direct our life conscious again! Only then can they be actively questioned, worked with and improved or discarded - you decide. And, to become independent of ‘outside truth’ by adopting a understanding but questioning mind, trying to see everything from all possible viewpoints, and only then, after due consideration, ‘believing’ or ‘disbelieving’ in it, which means: integrating it (or not) in the current working-model you are trying to understand and explain your reality with, always open for further revisions.

Adrian and clandestino: I didn’t see the quoted site from zetatalk before; it is the essence of the answer the Zetas were pointing to. Just see what happens when people believe that the government cares for them... or, when people believe that someone will tell them what to do, and when to do it... the signs of what will happen are clearly stated, in much detail, with reference to similar happenings in the past, and when they happen they will be obervable for everone who dares to take his life in his own hands. Adrian, I like your image of an inter-galactic game of chess - similar to how Shakespeare described the world as a stage we all act upon... it’s about time we rewrite the script.

I would like to point your attention to the newly launched forum Communications, which from now on will house everything pertaining to communication with the Zetas as seen here lately - the related posts from here have been copied over there. There’s a thread for plain questions from you & answers by the Zetas, one thread to discuss the answers received (both sticky) and plenty of room for other discussions around this topic! See the introductry message at  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6791 for introductory information.

Love always,
 Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on September 01, 2003, 10:34:30
Thanks for checking into this Edi. Your explaination does make sense, except for the Arcturian part. The pendulum is now telling me that the information coming through it is from guide in the dream. But whenever I go through whether its Zeta, Pleadian or Arcturian, the answers are always No. So I'm coming to 1 of 3 conclusions here:

1) I'm not communicating with the same guide as in the dream;
2) I am communicating with the guide from the dream, but it was the first guide and not the second;
3) I am communicating with the 2nd guide in the dream, but it was not Arcturian

What do you think? I had been assuming up till this post, that I was communicating with the 2nd guide in the dream.


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on September 01, 2003, 18:14:39
Assuming your pendulum is producing accurate answers for you, you could try using it to get these answers directly.  Formulate a set of questions from various angles and see what you come up with?

Am I now now talking to one of the two specific individual guides I saw in my dream (instead of just "my dream" though, word it in such a way that it accurately reflects in your mind the specific dream you are talking about).

Then based on the answer it gives, try to come up with more specific questions to approach the topic from a few different angles until you are satisfied with the answer.

--Soulfire




Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on September 01, 2003, 22:46:11
Actually Soulfire I've done that several times. It keeps telling me that I'm talking to the 2nd guide, the one Edi referenced was ARcturian. ANd after I read that post, I asked again:

Is this the 2nd guide? Yes
Are you Arcturian? No
Zeta? No
Pleadian? No

And I am not 'into' this UFO stuff. So I don't know any other names of races to use to guess.

I've tried the hangman approach for a name, but I got inconsistent answers when trying for letters. So I went for sounds (phonetically spelling the name). Both times I asked before beginning if I can find all of the sounds in their name within the English language. Both times I'm told a Yes. After 3 sessions, I get the first 3 syllables as UNU (long 'u' in the first one and short 'u' sound on the last 'u'). But it tells me there are more than 3 syllables to their name, and yet it answers no to every sound I go through for the 4th syllable.

I've also asked if it can communicate telepathically like the Pleadians do -- No.

Apparently they only communicate through the pendulum (which I thought was a form of telepathy) and dreams/astral.

I'm kinda running out of ways I can think of to get answers. So if you have any suggestions, I'm all 'ears'!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Soulfire on September 02, 2003, 04:20:20
First off, let me make it clear I am by no means an expert at the pendulum or Aliens.  I am just beginning to explore the pendulum and know next to nothing about Aliens.

Are you sure it is important for you to have a name/label to attach to the guide you saw in your dream?  Only you can answer that, but you might want ao ask the pendulum if there is any benefit to you having that information?

If you are still sure you need to know, maybe the pendulum itself can assist you in learning how to find out?  Consider asking questions like:

Is there a practical way that I can use the pendulum to figure out what kind of alien the second guide in my dream is?

If so: Is the best way of finding out something that I would easily think of on my own?

Is there someone in specific who could help me get this answer? (etc.)

quote:
Originally posted by Novice

Apparently they only communicate through the pendulum (which I thought was a form of telepathy) and dreams/astral.



The understanding I have so far is that the pendulum is supposedly part of some kind of astral computer rather than direct telepathy.  You might want to ask the pendulum about that as well?  :)

Sorry I could not be more help but I hope I provided something useful.  lol

--Soulfire


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Edi on September 02, 2003, 11:00:05
Did you talk to Daniel (silentwitness)? Do you care in any way about what actually happened, or just read things out of his post and base your accusations on this?
Did Mayatnik tell anyone what to do and how to live his personal live?  Never... ah yes, only that we should live our lifes on our own.

quote:

I stopped looking for answers from interdimensionals a long time ago.



Fine. That's because they don't give answers. At least they make sure you don't depend on them. You can ask anyone you see 'following' Mayatnik about their opinion on this... probably everyone will tell you the same: the most important thing is independence and consciousness in living.

What do the people who talked to Edward think about him? I'm just asking for more than our 2 opinions. Come on guys, tell us...

I don't know about you timeless, but trying to help people actually brings meaning to my life - I'm far from perfect, far from 'spiritually advanced' (whatever that may mean), but I care for other people and at least try to understand them - whats so bad and evil about that? It's no sign of emptyness... is it?

What do you want? To fight or to understand? I just can't see why you are doing this.

With love and pain in the heart,
  Edi


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: WalkingThePath on September 02, 2003, 11:26:20
hello

*sighs*

Timeless, i don't think you are in a position to judge Mayatnik, or make assumptions about him! You haven't even TALKED to him!
Why don't you ASK instead of TALK about things you don't know ANYTHING about???
If you are here only to make assumptions and not INVESTIGATE then LEAVE! You don't know anything about Daniel, or the REASONS for his actions, how dare you accuse Mayatnik when HE doesn't? You are making ASSUMPTIONS my friend! You have shut your ears and you talk and talk and say whatever you want without even TRYING to listen!
I have tired of your attitude and the likes of you.! I do not know what i believe about all this, i watch and ask and THEN come up with MY conclusions ONLY!  
Imagine if you are wrong, just try to imagine it! What will you do when and if a poleshift comes along and know that you have ACCUSED people who only wanted to help?
Please! Give Peace a chance [;)]

Malvina


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: Novice on September 02, 2003, 11:48:46
Edi-
I didn't take anything Timeless said personally. But by your response, she seems to have hit a nerve. I haven't personally conversed with anyone via MSN or any other form of IM. So all I 'know' is based on what I read/experience and how I feel about things being posted. And like someone else here posted, I usually get a 'true/false' feeling when I read something, intuitively. But I haven't gotten either one with this. Some things posted feel right, other things posted feel wrong. So maybe that's why my intuition is a bit confused with this thread. I'm not at a point where I will totally discount it, but I'm not signing everything over to it either.

And I think Timeless was merely letting Soulfire know of the range of people that have been posting on this topic. I don't remember seeing Mayatnik post that he was a spiritual master. So the fact that Timeless states that he is not should not offend him in the least.

I've read most of SeekingAnsers posts. The first one gave me a bad feeling to it (he was definately too gung ho). If I remember correctly, from the very first post, Mayatnik commented that he hadn't spoken to him for a long time and that he's had many issues to deal with. I don't know if Mayatnik was a catalyst for SeekingAnsers current life situation (whether directly or inadvertantly). But I don't see any harm in making others aware of the consequences of blindly following something without using your own free will and mind.

As for what Timeless references regarding concern for physical safety, this was one thing that struck me as well. And I'm not sure quite how to phrase this, so if I inadvertanly offend anyone, I apologize ahead of time.

My thoughts on this whole pole shift/earth change/doomsday, whatever it is. If it happens, there's a reason for it. And if I'm intended to survive it physically, then God will somehow give me signs that I recognize in the physical environment (without the need for an alien to 'guide' me), or arrange for a series of events to result in my being in the 'right place at the right time.' I don't believe its in my best interests to plan, move, or act on information regarding this stuff simply because the pendulum indicates this.

Even if the information coming through says I should move to high ground because a massive flood is about to occur. If God wanted me to remain in the physical, he will provide a sign/means of me getting to safety. Personally, I'm not so sure I'd want to physically survive after everything I've read that's supposed to happen. But I do believe in fulfilling whatever plan God has for me (although I don't consciously know what that is just yet).

I have had God give me signs in the physical before. (Jung called it synchronicity) But I've had people I work with or neighbors or friends make a comment or do something out of the blue that doesn't fit their character, but instantly addresses something I've been struggling with. I know instantly when these things happen and understand what they mean. Those are the types of signs/guidance that I seek. Certain dreams or astral trips I trust as well. Those are the only things I 'follow'.

For me, the jury is still out on the pendulum, who is communicating with me and the 'motive' for the communication. I've told the guide repeatedly that I don't believe what they are telling me and I need a sign to appear in the physical, that I'll recognize and understand, before I believe what they are saying. They agree and tell me that I will see signs of what they are saying to me. So until I see something in the physical that confirms some piece of information being told to me, then the communication remains for me an interesting, if a bit fantasy-like, dialog with a another being.

I personally prefer to read and hear all opinions on topics. This helps me to better understand my position and other views that I may not have considered. So I hope that Timeless and others continue to post. I think we all learn a lot more about the pendulum and ourselves in the process.

Wow, sorry for the length!


Title: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !
Post by: TruthSeeker on September 02, 2003, 13:47:29
Dear Timeless(and everyone else that might find themselves "hit" by this post,

I feel it is my turn to respond now. I have been passively watching everything that has happened here, but I feel now that I must say a few words.

I am, what you call a "follower" of Mayatnik. I do not consider me as such. You talk of Mayatnik like he was supposed to be "Jesus", gathering "diciples" to follow him. This is not the case. What Mayatnik does is to show those who wish to see.

I am utterly disgusted to read some of the post that have been posted here. Where you indirectly and directly offend and hurt especially Mayatnik(this also affects his "students" as you may refer to it more correctly). Offcourse you should feel free to argue about what is said, but why become hurtful? If what you see here is not what you want to consider, I suggest that you leave this for those that do want to consider the facts that are given.

There have been brought up accusations, accusing Mayatnik as being a "cult leader". This is very far away from the truth. Mayatnik has given people a start to go from, to explore and learn. He has given people a chance to know. He gives people a start, then they are free to go where they want from that. Nobody follows anybody, hence no "cult" can be created.

I could have said so much more, but as I have read, everything has been said.
In the end it is all up to you..

End of "general" post.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Timeless,

"Interesting, every time I post I always get the followers jumping all over me (some with quite foul language) but the man himself never speaks to me. Hmmm! Why is that? Must others defend him? Let him speak for himself. "

Who is this one man you are speaking of. We are individuals following our own paths(referring to above). There is no "man himself". There is no "cult". There is no "leader". There is no reason to "aim" all your frustration on one man. Aim it at "us"(if this is really what you want to spend your time doing), I beg you.

"What do you know about me?"
I do not know anything about you, and truthfully speaking: I have no interest in knowing anything about you at all.

You might feel that we are "misleading" or "misguiding" the individuals on this forum, but do please think of what you are doing.
You stand so firm on your "belief" that we are part of a "cult", here to spread "misinformation" to the individuals of this forum. That we push them in the wrong direction.

What exactly are you doing, you might ask. You are representing a "blockage" and "keep away-sign". We do not force people into "believing" anything. We show them a room, a room they may choose to explore, or a room they may choose to leave.


"When ever I see people react as radically, extremely and absolutely as Mayatnik's followers do I smell that something is not right. Your ego is too wrapped up in all this."
What would you say to me if I told you you were very wrong in everything you know? Would you have said: "Oh well I probably am.."?
Then this is not something you know, it is something you believe.
As an example: I know my parents are beautiful persons, then one day a man(1) approach me and starts yelling they are evil. Soon many more comes to join, all yelling that my parents are evil. What would you have done if you were me? Would you have walked away, knowing that this man(1) had given the crowd this belief, or would you stay and try to explain. If you do choose to stay and explain, but you are not getting through to the man(1) that "started this belief", what would you then do? You could once more walk away and say: Their loss.
But you might also stay in a last desperate attempt to shed some light of truth through to the crowd and the man(1). In the end you might turn desperate and begin loosing your patience and an anger towards this man(1) will start to grow. Things will be said that might not gain the cause. If you are a man of will and sense of "ri