The Astral Pulse

Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences => Welcome to Permanent Astral Topics! => Topic started by: kiauma on January 13, 2004, 15:23:38



Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: kiauma on January 13, 2004, 15:23:38
WOW!  Very well written.  I can't wait to try these suggestions out.

Thanks Jeff.

Heey!  I just thought of a sig.  I think I'll call myself, 'The Experienced Student'.  [:)]


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: cube on January 13, 2004, 15:36:08
On the 'mind aware/body asleep thing', while I agree with the spirit of what you're saying it IS possible for the body to sleep, that's what happens when you get sleep paralysis.

It seems like the common thread in all AP techniques is that they have the effect of making you forget about your physical bosy and begin focuing on your astral body.

You point that the body does not have to be asleep to AP is correct, however, since there have been threads about accidentally APing while driving a car or flying a plane.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 13, 2004, 15:47:51
quote:
Originally posted by cube

On the 'mind aware/body asleep thing', while I agree with the spirit of what you're saying it IS possible for the body to sleep, that's what happens when you get sleep paralysis.


I see what you're saying, but I may even contend that it's your MIND which convinces you that your body is asleep.  It's called disassociation.  If your mind was not disassociated from the body, then you would be able to move just fine.

The whole "paralysis" thing is nothing more than your mind in a disassociated state NOT KNOWING that it is disassociated, and then trying to move a body which it's not in control over!

Think about that for a minute.

This is why people can disassociate their mind and then have needles and other painful things pierce the body, with no signs of discomfort.  This is also why a lot of people can be hypnotised.  Their mind is disassociated from their actions by the power of suggestion.

quote:
It seems like the common thread in all AP techniques is that they have the effect of making you forget about your physical bosy and begin focuing on your astral body.


Most techniques have you focus on your physical body first, and then your mind.  I'm suggesting you focus on your mind, and your physical body will follow naturally.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Nay on January 13, 2004, 16:06:04
Yeppers..you absolutely ROCK!

Nay [;)]


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: ASunnieSpirit on January 13, 2004, 20:46:27
Thanks for your tips Jeff,

your very right about eye movement, it can be a pain to control.

Good point about the sleep trigger, its usually when i give up trying to ap and go to sleep that i get vibrations, problem is when i try to reach this state on purpose it works too well and i either fall asleep or snap myself awake too quickly.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: math on January 13, 2004, 20:50:49
Thanks for that post Jeff [:)]

The part about "your eyes must be asleep" really does make sense to me. However I'm not so clear on the body not asleep part.

Is what you are suggesting an alternative way of getting into the trance state? i.e. let yourself fall asleep but in a way that allows you to keep a strong intent/thread of consciousness going that allows you to "jump out" when you get deep enough.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 13, 2004, 21:45:55
quote:
Originally posted by math

Thanks for that post Jeff [:)]

The part about "your eyes must be asleep" really does make sense to me. However I'm not so clear on the body not asleep part.

Is what you are suggesting an alternative way of getting into the trance state? i.e. let yourself fall asleep but in a way that allows you to keep a strong intent/thread of consciousness going that allows you to "jump out" when you get deep enough.



Yes, it is a trance state that you get into, but you get into it naturally.  You don't have to TRY and get there.

You see, most techniques give you a billion and one physical things to do in order to get into a trace, like relaxing all your muscles from head to toe, and then back again, etc.

This is all well and good, but for me, I find that relaxing the mind and conditioning my mental processes is all that I need to do in order to achieve a good trance state.  Think about it.  The more you are focused internally (mentally), the less you're going to think about your body anyway.  You could have four arms sproating from your torso and you could care less, because you aren't focused on it.

So I'm merely suggesting that the next time you lay down, immedietely start working on the above three tips and work on your MIND and not your body.  Your body will naturally shut down without you helping it, but your mind needs to be hand-held and monitored in order to have a successful conscious OBE exit.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Gandalf on January 13, 2004, 22:47:18
Superb advice Jeff!

I will try out those tips. While I have fairly regular obes they are random and I still cant project at will (I usually wake up in the correct mental state around once a week on average).

Also, almost all my obes are direct into the astral, which is good IMV.

I almost never remember being in the '3d blackness' stage. What happens with me is i wake up randomly with the 'astral cinema screen effect' (Monroe focus level 22?); when this happens I just 'sit back' and observe the scenes until they fade or (as I do now) I will myself to step through it, and enter directly into the astral scene. The last time I was in the astral i observed my hands and got the 'melting hand' phenomenom as described by RB. However, I havnt decided whether this is a 'real' effect or if it happens simply because I expect it to.

From what i understand the astral screen is usually the part that follows on directly from focusing on an anomaly in the 3d blackness phase.

My next experiment when I'm out is to request a guide and see what happens (that's if i remember, but that can be the annoying part, as awareness can vary depending on the quality of the obe).

All for now,
Douglas


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Fat_Turkey on January 14, 2004, 01:52:32
It's a good thing you wrote that all out for many to see, for not many learn those things by themselves. I have, but not everything you wrote there. Much appreciated!

[|)]FT


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: cube on January 14, 2004, 02:16:27
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff_Mash
The whole "paralysis" thing is nothing more than your mind in a disassociated state NOT KNOWING that it is disassociated, and then trying to move a body which it's not in control over!



My feeling is that if you're in sleep paralysis, then you haven't dissociated. However I need more experience to make a firm judgement on that.

Basically I agree with math's post in that I don't understand how you can say that the eyes are asleep but the body is not.

quote:

Most techniques have you focus on your physical body first, and then your mind.  I'm suggesting you focus on your mind, and your physical body will follow naturally.



I agree, and that agrees with my point in that the end effect of the techniques is to forget about your body and focus on your mind or astral presence which is always there.

My feeling is that we are not actually projecting anywhere as much as we are refocusing our consciousness to an aspect of our spirit. That spirit aspect is already somewhere, so we are not really projecting it.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: The AlphaOmega on January 14, 2004, 05:13:13
Thanks a lot Jeff.  I agree, you really described the sensations well.  I have experienced them all, and you described them to a T.  I would just like to add a little something about the eyes.  Just recently I discovered myself how important this was.  You will notice when you are at the day dreaming state and your mind is wandering that your eyes may tense up a little, like become a little more tightly closed I guess.  It's important to keep that in the back of your mind and periodically check them to make sure they really ARE as relaxed as they can be.  One thing I did want to ask your view on.  Recently I have stopped trying to feel the vibrations as a signal to try and leave my body.  After about 30 minutes to an hour I am very relaxed and in a good frame of mind, with no sign of the vibrations (I have never felt them).  It's at this stage that I visualize myself floating out of my body, and suddenly my heart beats faster and I get an excited feeling, as if I'm very close.  Do you yourself have a similar experience, or do you use the imfamous vibrations that everyone else talks about?  I'm beginning to think they are not necissary to have an OBE, simply a common experience that many do feel WHEN they have an OBE.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 14, 2004, 13:54:23
quote:
Originally posted by cube
Basically I agree with math's post in that I don't understand how you can say that the eyes are asleep but the body is not.


I use the term "asleep" as a way of saying that the eyes are not being used.  You see, even when you close your eyes, you are STILL using them.  Just because they are not seeing anything doen not mean that they are not LOOKING at anything.

THey are, in fact, looking at something: the back of your eyelids.  Well, I have noticed that this LOOKING process needs to stop.  As long as you are looking with physical eyes, you will not get to the pre-OBE state as I mentioned above.  There is a slight transition, very subtle, where you relinquish your physical looking ability and swap it for the astral looking ability.

That is what I was trying to convey when I said the eyes need to be "asleep."


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: kiauma on January 14, 2004, 14:01:13
I would like to echo what Jeff said, about the importance of the eyes, exactly how he describes it.

Secondly, what TAO said about his heart speeding up.  I have experienced this too.  I have read that it is because of a tremendous energy buildup as a person prepares to project.

Anyone have any other explanation?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 14, 2004, 14:02:09
quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
One thing I did want to ask your view on.  Recently I have stopped trying to feel the vibrations as a signal to try and leave my body.  After about 30 minutes to an hour I am very relaxed and in a good frame of mind, with no sign of the vibrations (I have never felt them).


I rarely feel them too....and when I do, it's not like an immediate BAM!  HERE THEY ARE!  It's more like, "Oh hey, I seem to be vibrating here."  

I have often felt them as a buzzing, numb feeling.  Never violent or disturbing.

quote:

  It's at this stage that I visualize myself floating out of my body, and suddenly my heart beats faster and I get an excited feeling, as if I'm very close.


I know what you're talking about....and here is how I look at it.  When you try and relax, and you're going 30 - 60 minutes with just laying there, clearing your mind, etc., you're still very much awake.  True, you can't really feel your body, but you still SENSE it, and this is the problem.

So what we end up doing is that even though we feel that our body is asleep, we try and do some physically-minded exit techniques, like the ROPE, or floating our of our BODY (see, another body reference).  However, since we still sense our physical body, the physical body starts reacting to our visualization.  The heart will start to beat faster...we may feel an adrenaline surge through our veins....we may twitch.  I'm sure most of us have experienced this before.

The key is to get to the point where you don't even sense the physical body.  Don't worry about whether you FEEL it or not.  Worry about whether or not you can SENSE it.

This is why I stress so much on the MENTAL aspect of OBE-preparation. If you get immersed in your thoughts and base all your progress on mental benchmarks (instead of physical ones), then you will find it easier to lose all awareness of the physical body.

quote:

  Do you yourself have a similar experience, or do you use the imfamous vibrations that everyone else talks about?  I'm beginning to think they are not necissary to have an OBE, simply a common experience that many do feel WHEN they have an OBE.


Feeling the vibrations are NOT necessary to have an OBE, you are correct.  IMO, focusing on the vibes is a good way to keep your focus on the physical body, which is what you DON'T want to do.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Risu no Kairu on January 14, 2004, 18:36:43
If this whole thing pops you into the Astral (which I'm assuming you're not refering to the whole "Real time Zone"), how do you get to  a "Real Time Zone" projection?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 14, 2004, 19:53:53
quote:
Originally posted by Risu no Kairu

If this whole thing pops you into the Astral (which I'm assuming you're not refering to the whole "Real time Zone"), how do you get to  a "Real Time Zone" projection?


I believe that this technique will automatically pop you into whatever environment that you "see" prior to phasing there.  However, once you're there, you should still be able to focus on a real time place (like "home") or a real time person (like "Nay") and then expect to be taken there.

Just because you may be in the technical "Astral Realm" does not mean you can't shift to the RTZ....just as you can shift from the RTZ to the astral.

I don't have a lot of practice with shifting from one level to another, so I can't really answer those questions.  I usually just explore wherever I end up without trying to change my location.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Nay on January 14, 2004, 20:31:53
quote:
I believe that this technique will automatically pop you into whatever environment that you "see" prior to phasing there. However, once you're there, you should still be able to focus on a real time place (like "home") or a real time person (like "Nay") and then expect to be taken there.
Hahahahahahha..why thanks Jeff! I am gonna be afraid to take a shower now..[:P]

I pretty much had the eye thing down..I realized it awhile back when my eyes kept "looking" around in the darkness behind my eyelids, it just didn't feel right.  Last night when I tried for a projection, something did happen that has never happened before.  In the darkness I all of a sudden saw a bright red dot, in the distance.  It actually made me jump because I didn't expect to see anything.  Have no clue what is was, just weird.  I ended up going to sleep..*sigh*

Oh..side note.. I get this jolt and buzz, just for a split second, but it doesn't continue, any ideas? (How am I doing on the comma's Jeff?)[^]

Nay



Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 14, 2004, 20:55:28
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
Oh..side note.. I get this jolt and buzz, just for a split second, but it doesn't continue, any ideas?


Hmmmm...no idea.  Weird flashes of energetic activity?  That would be my guess.

quote:
(How am I doing on the comma's Jeff?)[^]



A lot,better than some,people. [:D]


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Kerrblur on January 15, 2004, 01:40:23
Jeff, this post is genius! GENIUS

I've always wanted to know how to relax my eyes, and didnt want to ask this question because I thought it would be a 'stupid' question, but now it seems appropriate to ask:

     When training yourself looking through your closed eye lids,, keeping them still, relaxed, try to unlock  you astral eyes basically.  So the question I have is this almost like training your eyes to see 'Auras'? because in order to see auras, you have to relaxed your eyes, keep them focused, dont move them, and eventually you'll be trained to see them?



Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: thechunk05 on January 15, 2004, 02:26:58
"It's kind of like staring at a wall or something. It keeps you occupied, but your mind really isn't moving in a downward, relaxed state."

SOMEONE FINALLY DESCRIBES IT LIKE I DO!! lol.........I get that feeling quite often........anyways....good stuff!


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: math on January 15, 2004, 10:57:29
Hi Jeff

I've been thinking very carefully about your post (thanks for your last reply), particularly as I'm just about to start trance work in my 90 day Astral Dynamics (AD) programme. The question I have been asking myself is what exactly is the trance state and has my idea of what it is been wrong. I think your post has provided the answer for me [:)]

Image this scenario of someone trying to fall asleep [;)]
"I must get to sleep, relax a little. Am I aware of being awake in by bed? I know I'm in my bed but it doesn't feel like it, maybe I'm asleep - no not yet. I just saw an image was that a dream? Maybe I'm dreaming now, no I'm still awake...relax more..."

This is clearly ridiculous, but my attempts at trance work have been a little like this.

What you seem to be suggesting is that the trance state is in fact *falling asleep proper* (not just body) while maintaining some level of awareness. Robert Bruce in AD talks about keeping your surface mind clear, so instead of getting lost in meaningless images and ramblings (as often happens when falling asleep) you can maintain a clear mind and remain aware (NOT awake).

Now if this is the case and the trance state is asleep but aware then... because you are asleep, but not dreaming in the normal sense of the word, you percieve (not see with your eyes) what people often refer to as an astral screen that displays swirling colours and lights. I think this point is very important. i.e. The astral screen replaces what would be under normal circumstances be a dream/dream imagery. This also explains how dream imagery can intrude into your view of the RTZ. It is in this state that phasing/projection is possible.

This appears to be backed up by my own limited experience. I have managed to project twice from from a semi-aware state (both projections were very short as I got stuck in my bedroom wall). On each of these occassions I had been trying to project from what I thought was the trance state but gave up. I then rolled over to fall asleep but then on the very borderline of entering a dream I just stepped out of my body - I didn't use the rope technique or experience buzzing/vibrations I was just very easily able to step out.

Would you agree with this?

Cheers
Math


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 15, 2004, 13:44:59
quote:
Originally posted by Kerrblur
So the question I have is this almost like training your eyes to see 'Auras'? because in order to see auras, you have to relaxed your eyes, keep them focused, dont move them, and eventually you'll be trained to see them?


You're on the right track.  Here is what I do to relax them if they are not cooperating with me.

Since I usually try to OBE in a really dark bedroom, I OPEN my physical eyes and just stare into the darkness.  I don't try and look for anything.  In fact, you really can't see anything, just blackness.  So since you aren't focusing on anything in particular, your eyes just start to zone out.  Your eyelids soon get heavy, and before you know it, it feels sooo gooood to close them that they relax on their own.

When I say "stare" into the darkness, I don't mean without blinking.  This isn't an astral staring contest!  You can blink if you need to.  I simply mean that you should "zone out" while keeping your eyes open.  Again, this is to help relax them.

If you don;t have a dark room to do this in, then I suppose you could do it by looking at a particular part of the wall or ceiling....but try not to stare it down.  Just be aware of it....like you're just some fly on the wall or something.  The key is not to use your eyes and make them active, but instead, to wind them down and let them relax.

Hope that helps.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 15, 2004, 13:54:59
quote:
Originally posted by math
Would you agree with this?


I'm not quite sure I fully understand your question, but I'll give it a shot.

For me, the trance state can only take me so far.  When I say trance, I mean getting my mind into an altered state of consciousness.

A lot of times, I feel that we as individuals can only consciously go so far before an "autopilot" reflex takes over.

Imagine a person rolling a bowling ball up one side of a hill.  He has to exert some effort to push and roll that heavy thing upwards, right?  

Then he reaches the top, and he doesn't have to push as hard anymore.

As he nears the descending slope of the other side, he lets go, and the ball slowly starts to roll downward on it's own.....then faster. and faster.

Sometimes I feel our OBE preparation is like that.  Getting into a trance state is like pushing the bowling ball up the hill.  It takes some practice and effort on our part.  However....the MAIN GOAL is to get the ball in a position to roll on its own.

Once we get to this position, we can usually allow ourselves to LET GO a little bit, allow that forward momentum to continue, and then snap our consciousness back into place as an OBE is taking place.

Remember, you can enter this astral/RTZ realm on the border between sleep and the imagination.  It's a very fine line you have to walk, which is why we usually just fall asleep when we try to do it.  Not only that, but passing through this doorway is very subtle.  You may not even realize it when you do it, especially if you don't feel any vibrations or anything like that.

There is just this 'knowing' feeling that comes along with this state of mind, where you KNOW that you can have an OBE at that moment.  Hope that helps somewhat...I know I was long winded but my mind keeps going and going and.....


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Kerrblur on January 15, 2004, 21:04:46
Okay, I tried this, and it seemed to work pretty well, but I failed because I couldnt figure out how to get to 'Astral Planes' like you said, I started to see the 3-D blackness shape up, and make inward forming circles (Circles would appear, and shape its self smaller and then start over).  But I didnt really know when to start thinking about (i.e Astral Pulse Island) the astral planes.

  I started getting vibrations, and heaviness, the eye thing and mind set was great! but this thing you said about it 'sucking' you in, wasnt catching to me, and then part I mentiuoned where I could figure out when to think about the astral planes, cause 'I DO NOT' like the RTZ anymore lol starting to get to me. If there a way to bypass the RTZ, I wanna learn it in its simplest terms if you can! thanks alot!


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 15, 2004, 23:47:59
quote:
Originally posted by Kerrblur

Okay, I tried this, and it seemed to work pretty well, but I failed because I couldnt figure out how to get to 'Astral Planes' like you said, I started to see the 3-D blackness shape up, and make inward forming circles (Circles would appear, and shape its self smaller and then start over).  But I didnt really know when to start thinking about (i.e Astral Pulse Island) the astral planes.

  I started getting vibrations, and heaviness, the eye thing and mind set was great! but this thing you said about it 'sucking' you in, wasnt catching to me, and then part I mentiuoned where I could figure out when to think about the astral planes, cause 'I DO NOT' like the RTZ anymore lol starting to get to me. If there a way to bypass the RTZ, I wanna learn it in its simplest terms if you can! thanks alot!


Ryan, when this happened to me last, I wasn't PLANNING on going anywhere in specific.  In both instances, I just observed the 3D shapes that were forming in my field of vision.....and once I locked onto one of them, it eventually solidified into an colorful environment.  

From THAT point, you can go wherever you want, or simply explore where you ended up, like I did.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: chupacabra on January 16, 2004, 02:12:49
Ok lemme see if i got this straight

1. Relax your eyes, don't use your eye muscles to focus on anything you see in the blackness behind your eyelids.

2. releax your mind by being aware of the stuff going on behind your eyes but not physically "looking" at it. ignore body stimulus or the urge to make sure your body is relaxed.

3. Allow you mind to get as close to the border of sleep as you can without falling asleep then phase into whatever environment you perceive or "see"

Is that right?

How do you get to the border of sleep without crossing over? I guess practice, huh?  it's very roller coaster-ish to me. I'm wide awake and then catch myself right before i fall asleep which jolts me into awakedness, not very smooth.



Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: math on January 16, 2004, 07:07:21
Thanks Jeff

Sorry the question was a bit vague - your answer was good [:)]
quote:
There is just this 'knowing' feeling that comes along with this state of mind, where you KNOW that you can have an OBE at that moment.
Yes during my few successful OBEs I just knew I could exit.
quote:
Once we get to this position, we can usually allow ourselves to LET GO a little bit, allow that forward momentum to continue, and then snap our consciousness back into place as an OBE is taking place.

The bowling ball analogy is very helpful - I relate to the letting go and snapping back but until now had never identified it as part of the process. Thanks Jeff this has really helped me.

Hi chupacabra
quote:
I'm wide awake and then catch myself right before i fall asleep which jolts me into awakedness, not very smooth.
I getting to know that feeling well. lol.

Math


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Kerrblur on January 16, 2004, 13:32:04
Thanks, I'll look into this more.

Another question I've 'always' had is the different levels of trances.  I've never really been formally trained to mediotate or anyhting like that, i just taught myself, never got any books or anything so, I just kinda picked it up alittle.  But this rpoblem I'm having right now, is distinguishing(sp?) the different levels of trances you are to be in.

  The most common one I am aware of now is the light trance, which gives you terrible distracting ichy sensations and 'cottonballs' or whatever like what robert bruce said in his book.  Then I dont know what level after this, cause 'if' i suceed in dropper in a lower trance(and the eye thing seems to do it better than any other), I get the heavy sensation, But I dont know what trance I am in, and how to distinguish them other than the light trance.  

Can you give some input on how I can?

One last question.  Dont you have to be at a some kind of trance to even enter the astral planes?
Well i say this because, we discussed in other post if 'these' places were real or my imagination(life line technique post).  lol now I gots to find out lol

-Thanks


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 16, 2004, 16:07:14
quote:
Originally posted by Kerrblur
Dont you have to be at a some kind of trance to even enter the astral planes?


Ryan, to me, "trance" and "altered state of consciousness" is the same thing.

Most people hear the word "trance" and they automatically think of it as something to do with your BODY.  In MY mind, I think of trance as something to do with your MIND.

So I can rephrase your question above to sound like this: "Don't you have to be in some kind of altered state of consciousness/awareness to even enter the astral planes?"

The answer is yes!  

So what is an altered state of consciouness?  We have them all the time, even right now.  For example, I just thought about this cool online Internet game I play. For about two seconds, I was picturing my soldier running through the game, shooting people.  Then I came back to my thoughts here, in front of this computer, to write about it.  For those two seconds, my consciousness was altered away from the physical and shifted to the mental.

You can be in an altered state of consciousness when you're WIDE awake (think about hypnotism), and you can be in an altered state of consciousness when you're wide asleep (think of deep dreaming).

All you're really doing is turning away from the "here-now" and focusing inwards...at your thoughts....at your consciousness....

There is a whole WORLD of things going on, just in your head alone.  Take that time to sit back and observe it when you lay down.  Explore it and learn from it.  If you find the right balance, you will stay conscious while this is taking place, and soon induce an OBE.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: coral1 on January 17, 2004, 01:35:35
Hi Jeff

  I hadn`t been able to project for about three weeks. After reading your tips I searched for the "sleep trigger point" and was back in business.Thats a good way to describe a very subtle state of mind.I think it`s important to emphasize how close to sleep the mind has to get in order for projection to work.I know I spent months trying force projections from mental states that were nowhere near deep enough.Thanks for the good advice!

  By the way that projection took me to my childhood home again.I can`t stay away from the place!

   Cheers


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: x_wolf19 on January 17, 2004, 09:00:33
your post makes ABSOLUTE perfect sense to me.  very well written and makes alot of sense.  I just need to work on it more I think....I do totally understand how you do it though, and I think it sounds very plausible, and correct.  Just gotta figure out how to do that extra "step"

cheers!


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Kerrblur on January 17, 2004, 15:10:06
perfect stuff, all you got to do is scan the blackness till you find that one blotch of area, you focus on it, it becomes closer, or farther away, does movements on you, then your in! I wanna try to keep doing this because it minimizes sooo much energy and force! things arnt soo harsh feeling. good work

p.s: while doing this, at the end, i opened my eyes, and my aura was shining brighter than a semi's headlights. lol good work.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: alpine9 on January 17, 2004, 17:15:49
Is that one blotch of area you are talking about those colors your supposed to see and lock onto one and it will suck you into the astral?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: x_wolf19 on January 18, 2004, 08:20:40
hey again.  Well I tried this method the other night after I had read it.  I can honestly say it got me (for what I can tell) very close to where I should be for projection.  I felt like I had no body, and I was floating or being pushed in many different directions.  I heard whooshing noises, and could see colors and what looked like objects.  I had to stop though as I had to go to school the next day and it was LATE and I didn't want to be extremely tired.  All in all, good advice and I'll keep workin on it!  Cheers!


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Kerrblur on January 18, 2004, 18:01:08
Yea, even if its not color, you zoom on it! it may be a imprint black n white circle! or suttin! can be anything that you may caTCH a eye on.  .  .  After a couple days of practice, I got it, I'll post my experience later today.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Makaveli on January 21, 2004, 19:05:58
These tips have been very helpful.  I really worked on relaxing my eyes along with the other tips and was able to project this morning and I also had an AP 2 days ago.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Blackstream on January 23, 2004, 06:38:49
Just as a side note, I'm coming from a lucid dreaming side view of things, and I just wanted to mention a few things.  The first is that the stuff that comes out of the blackness that you watch is also refered to as "hypnagogic imagery" or something like that.  I've watched it a lot while trying to get to sleep.  Only, for me, when I'm trying to enter a lucid dream, I stare at the imagery until I'm in a full-blown lucid dream (basically to keep myself awake until the dream starts).  But I guess an obe person would at that point start pulling themselves out or something (haven't gotten that far yet).

A lot of the relaxation techniques seem pretty common to both techniques, so a look at the lucidity institute website might be helpful for relaxation methods (www.lucidity.com).  Particulary the one about 61 point relaxation.  There's also some visualization exercises and the such.  I've tried them and hit the paralyzation vibration stage thingy many times easily... only I was trying to hit a lucid dream and never hit REM sleep so I end up getting up an hour later frustrated.  If I had known about obe stuff, I might have tried to pull out at that point:)

So yes, that's all I wanted to say.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Life_afterdeath on January 27, 2004, 06:04:01
quote:
Originally posted by cube

On the 'mind aware/body asleep thing', while I agree with the spirit of what you're saying it IS possible for the body to sleep, that's what happens when you get sleep paralysis.

It seems like the common thread in all AP techniques is that they have the effect of making you forget about your physical bosy and begin focuing on your astral body.

You point that the body does not have to be asleep to AP is correct, however, since there have been threads about accidentally APing while driving a car or flying a plane.



I personally think that Sleep Paralysis is a normal function that works in coordination with OBE's to make sure that your physical body doesn't move along with your astral body.  You can imagine how much harder it would be to get control of your astral body without sleep paralysis, can't you?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Blackstream on January 27, 2004, 06:09:15
The reason (or at least one of the big ones) for sleep paralysis is so that you don't act out your dreams (or astral projections as well I suppose).  The only things that aren't affected by paralysis are eye movement and breathing (some scientific studies have been done on this where lucid dreamers signaled with eye movements from their sleep).

While I'm sure that it helps a lot when you try and move your astral body, it is also to insure your safety as you dream.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: alpine9 on January 28, 2004, 15:07:36
What about people who sleep walk?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Makaveli on January 29, 2004, 01:02:02
quote:
Originally posted by Blackstream

The only things that aren't affected by paralysis are eye movement and breathing (some scientific studies have been done on this where lucid dreamers signaled with eye movements from their sleep).


Thatís odd because I get SP so often that now during it I can slightly move my legs and neck.  Sometimes I have to bring myself out of it by kicking one leg with the other that can move.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: The Humble Master on January 29, 2004, 15:50:36
Hi, I have been trying to get OBE's for 5 years now, and not once have I acheived one. Could you guys post some help for me?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: chupacabra on January 29, 2004, 19:30:19
Jeff,

How the hell are you supposed to let your mind sart falling asleep but stay awake?

How can you focus on a blotch or color in the blackness behind your eyes when you aren't supposed to be using your eyes in the first place?

I'm not angry, just confused.

Prease Exprain.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 29, 2004, 19:56:44
quote:
Originally posted by chupacabra
How the hell are you supposed to let your mind sart falling asleep but stay awake?


I never said it was easy!  Think of it like this.  When you're tired and you want to go to sleep, most people have no trouble "forcing" themselves to sleep.  It just happens.

The key is to allow your body to do what comes naturally to it...let it progress downwards (both mentally and physically), while *you* remain emotionally detached from it.

In other words, just observe the changes.  You need to become very, very familiar with this process.  I'm still playing around with it, and hopefully soon, I'll be able to refine these tips to give some better ideas for you to focus on.

quote:

How can you focus on a blotch or color in the blackness behind your eyes when you aren't supposed to be using your eyes in the first place?


It's the same way you can use your physical eyes to see peripherally.  As an example, by looking straight ahead right now and staring at the computer monitor, you can still see things on the right and left side of your head, *without looking in that direction.*

Seeing without your physical eyes is kinda the same thing.  The first thing you have to do is toss out the notion that you are "seeing" anything.  You are not seeing, so don't even try. You are PERCIEVING.

So with that in mind, you want to perceive the shapes and objects that float past you.  If it helps, remind yourself that everytime you see something, a color, a shape, an object, etc., just remind yourself, "Hey, I know I just saw that, but my eyes are closed, so I must be tuning into my astral senses."

You must convince yourself that you are slowly tuning out the physical senses and acquiring your non-physical senses.  Only then will you see non-physical things and hear non-physical sounds.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Kerrblur on January 29, 2004, 23:43:33
Jeff,

     I got something to comment/question you about for the people who are reading this to maybe get a better understanding on 'focus on the spot' thing.

  Tell me if what I do is correct.  What I have theorized(SP?) about with the focus thing is purely visualization or creating in your mind while looking through your closed eye lids (which i found to be pretty difficult) being two things at once, focusing, and visualizing yourself moving through a spot or bubble that you start to notice when in the trance stage.  

  What has happened to me while doing this process would be looking through my closed eye lids, and seeing nothing, but with practice I taught myself to focus and visualize at the same time kinda, AND staying in a traNCE state to get the visuals through my eyelids started.  Once the visuals are enabled and such, I would visualize myself going 'forward' through this spot in the darkness.  

  The picture I created in my head when doing this would be the spot, and when i started to visualize myself going forward, itd be just a easy visual, like when you see the cave, the radius of the cave gets larger as you get closer, but I keep in rythem to my breathing, (IN/OUT).

Is this correct, does it sound like something people should do?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 30, 2004, 16:38:59
Ryan,

It's not really for me to say what is correct or incorrect.  After all, you may be able to induce OBE's while standing on your head, and while this wouldn't work for me, the technique would be correct for you.  [:D]

But it sounds like you have the right idea.  For me, it's hard to explain it anymore clearly than I already have (which I admit isn't the best description, but physical words always fail me when I try to describe non-physical things!)

As another example, last night, as soon as I laid down, I tried to just relax and WATCH anything that I could percieve which would enter into my field of vision.  I'd see a quick scene or two, but it would fade away really fast.

You know, it's almost like your a passenger in a car which is speeding down the highway.  Next time you're in a car as a passenger, stare out the side of the window at a 90 degree angle, so that you're literally facing the speeding scenery.  At first, it's hard to *lock* onto an object for more than a second, because the car is going so fast that it speeds right past you.

It's like, "Tree..tree...bush...tree...cow...tree.." really fast.

Now, as the car slows down, these objects along the freeway stay in your field of vision longer.

It's now like, "Tree.........tree........bush........", and so on.

Winding your body and mind down is the same thing.  At first, these visions speed by you really fast, but as they slow down, you can lock onto them longer.  

I had a couple last night that I locked onto which I held for 7-8 seconds, and it was like a mini movie scene, with motion and everything.  But then what happens is that if you're not in the right mental place, you soon get excited that you're actually seeing something this clear, and it fades away.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: chupacabra on January 30, 2004, 20:07:29
thanks for the reply jeff. i think what you're saying is rather than looking around trying to find images, simply be aware of them when they come, then focus your mind on them, not necessarily your eyes.

Pretending to go down steps or slide down a pole still helps to get me closer to trance and energized, but after I get all bloated up with energy I find myself just sitting there wondering what to do next and trying a bunch of stuff that doesn't do anything.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: holy reality on February 02, 2004, 21:53:28
so how in the world do you take that final step out of your body or into paralysis once you get to the point where your mind is roaming free and and you have no control over it and images and thoughts are drifting out?

i mean i ask this all the time but either no one cares or no one knows.

you get these rushes of adrenaline and heaviness and vibration and then you are back into normal thinking but then it decays and your thoughts run wild and then you jolt back again and this just keeps happening over and over and over.

it's like i'm standing on a line conscious | unconscious

and whatever i try to do to make myself project or make myself STAY ALERT while I cross the line doesn't work, becuase as soon as I cross it there is no "me" there is just random stuff going on that I have no control of.. and when i jolt back i know that i was paralyzed because i feel the heaviness and the intense vibrations, but the only thing is they are gone now, becuase i'm conscious again, and have a body again, and it's just a normal body and a normal state of mind, just that it's very hard to keep it focused for the few seconds that it takes to go back over the line again into randomness.

no amount of concentration has worked, my body and mind are going to SLEEP becuase I am going about entering this state in a more or less effortless manner, much like going to sleep is... kind of similar to how you described finding a sleep trigger (the key for me is abrupt transitions, like "Hey, you lost track of your thoughts" and that realization produces a falling adrenaline like sensation in me, kind of like when i completely come out of the above described states (of total dissociation and hallucination)

i mean i can try doing this in a chair so maybe my mind doesn't think it's trying to go to sleep, but then i'm not sure if i'd be able to even hit the hypnagogic state.

what you said about finding a patch of color and holding onto it is absolutely true though, but the problem is you have to be pretty much completely out of touch with reality and your body in the first place, you can't just sit down and instantly find a color and deepen it and hold onto and pop right out.

but anyway it sounds like you are doing more or less what i am doing, and i'd really like some help. I made a thread about it yesterday or the day before http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10305


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Glacius on February 03, 2004, 06:37:53

     Very helpful and practical information!! And well written too. I have never heard it put in such a perspective. Its really helpful.

  Anyways your basically saying that attention needs to be mental right? when one is focused on relaxing the body it could hinder progress as well because your clearly focussing on it. I agree with what you say. There is a difference between seeing with the physical eyes and seeing with the minds eye or third eye. The body falls asleep naturally anyway so if one learns to focus internally it happens anyways. With all the perceptions. They will all become internal!!

   I seem to catch myself starring fixedly with my physical eyes waiting to see something. This strains them and they are not relaxed. Our vision is a link the this reality so its easy to not notice your eyes "looking" for something....anything.

    Once they are relaxed, then attention will focus on the minds eye perception. It seems to me that the feeling should be quite obvious. At least I perceive it quite well nowadays. Its almost like you feel your eyes turn off, and you gain a more "in depth" perception or percpective. A more imaginary state.

 this might be helpful....If you try really hard to visualize something, and keep your eyes as relaxed as you can, you might induce the feeling. You wont expect to see anything physically because its not there. You will gain a fantasy sort of vision. This is just visualization and does not require you to "see" anything.  If your at this site you should know that anyways!! Keep checking for strain is really good advice I would say!! Remember what I mean by "vizualization". RB goes in depth on the subject in Astral Dynamics. If you cant get it I think its in the treatise. I would suggest also for anyone wnating to have an OBE that you read every single bit of info that you can muster. Buy every book on amazon.com. FLOOD YOUR MIND WITH IT!! If you really, want an OBE you will get one.  If you say you do but arent willing to put time and effort into it,it wont work.

   If you wake up in a vibration state your vision is already orientated to your minds perception so you should just go for it. At least with my expereince anyways.


  As Jeff was saying earlier, people can be hypnotized into detaching awarness from the physical body. You can teach yourself this like you would anything else. A sort of automatic mechanism. Many things can do this. Your subconcious mind has to be tought this. A lot of the techs that Robert Bruce comes out with can teach this to you. Its like when you fall you automatically sheild your face or other things that are very important to your servival. You dont even have to think and you do it. You can teach yourself anything like that. Its like if you play guitar a lot you dont have to think about the doing, just the notes that you want to play. Everything else is subconcious. Or when you talk it just flows from years of engrained training.
A lot of people use magick rituals and the like to accomplish this, or anything else for that matter that has to do with really putting an impact on the mind for good or bad. I am in no way suggesting this, just pointing it out.

    A matra is a good example of this. Or those tapes that are supposed to teach you stuff when your asleep. Practice all the time and think about it!!!  Thats my best advice.

    I seem to have somehow made myself into a weekly projector in the last couple months!! I cant yet do it at will, at the moment but I have learned to wake up in the state almost twice a week for the last month of so. Its great!!! I do not always have an adventure. A lot of the times I am just learning how to move and flying around aimlessly and not to mention uncontrolably!! Doing backflips and the like trying to gain some sort of control. As Robert Bruce would say " Blundering about like a drunk in zero gravity"!![:D][:D]

anyways I found the most helpful thing to acheive an OBE consistently is to think about it all the time. At least every ten minutes of everyday. I have found if I do this I dont need any techs or anything. I simply wake up in the state. Its almost as if you mind knows how to do it already and you have to confince the hell out of it that you want an OBE. Everything else is automatic. Your mind will find a way to give you results without you having to do anything someway or another. And if you think you dont have time to think about AP every ten minutes just think for ten minutes and I am sure you can squeeze some AP thoughts in with all that other useless crap going on!! Oh and a dream journal helps a lot.

 Anyways thats my input I hope it helps someone to acheive an AP!! Good luck with everything. And dont give up and all that.


 


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Goldenshadow on February 06, 2004, 07:13:48
I have a couple questions. The first one is to Jeff Marsh. Have you ever experienced sleep paralysis before/during/after an OBE (or atall). My other question is: What do people expect to gain from an obe? I am curious...

O and one more. Has anyone ever gone from a "dream state" to a more lucid or even "OBE". Does anyone consider REM sleep the same as changing your "astral dimension"?



Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: chicnstu on February 07, 2004, 23:09:38
I'll try these tips out and see if I have an OBE any quicker than I usually do with my techniques.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Deva on February 09, 2004, 13:42:59
This method could be workable for me.  I discovered that by placing 2 magnets a few inches apart on my forehead allowed me to extend my focus on the blackness behind my eyelids effortlessly.

I would not suggest placing one on the 3rd eye region.  When I did this there tended to be a more likelihood of attracting NEGs for some reason.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Serenity1 on February 10, 2004, 22:25:24
Hi Jeff
Thanks for the tips, I've been having good results, slow, but worth the the practice.

I was getting frustrated with the state where the images apear. Since I was looking for some image to float peacfully by, not so!

For me there is a heap of image stuff happening but yet not clear enough to recognise anything. Only when I accepted this and kind of ignored it this happened:
 
I quote you jeff:
You know, it's almost like your a passenger in a car which is speeding down the highway. Next time you're in a car as a passenger, stare out the side of the window at a 90 degree angle, so that you're literally facing the speeding scenery...

Yes, to me it is like a VERY fast ride. Then it turns sideways like the screens in the movie Matrix where all the data is running virtical only super fast and all colours, THEN POP I'm standing on the lawn of my Mothers house and the dew on the grass is all so real (RTZ I think) etc.. But I can't smell that wonderful crisp air, so when I draw in a great big breath through my nostrals POP my real eyes open and I'm back... bugger!!

It's all a ballancing act for me but I'm learning each day and getting rewards perhaps once a week, but that is worth the practice.

Cheers[:)]

Harvey


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: smooth on February 14, 2004, 13:11:00
hey jeff,

       It seems to me that you are like a expert obt. where is the coolst place you have gone while in obe?



~chris~


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Mustardseed on February 18, 2004, 02:14:51
Hi Jeff and all
Lately I have been having a lot of very new experiences with WILDs (wake induced lucid dreams) It seems to me that the tecnic you are describing is very similar to how I induce these WILDS. In the light of this I have a bit of input that might be a part of the picture.

It seems that for me my body has to be very relaxed and free of toxins. By this I mean alcohol or coffea. My main toxins of choice,[;)]. I seem to have a big problem with phasing if I have had coffea within 5 or 6 hours, so the early morning works best. I normally get up at about 1 hour before sunrise and answer my mail and strech and then I go back to bed. I lay on my left side in a foster position and then I start to trick my mind. I say to myself "I am going to pretend to go back to sleep but REALLY....i AM GONNA STAY AWAKE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS". Mostly I have about 10 15 minutes of wind down time and after that swirls of colour start appearing in my view. I know I am close to "sleep land" so I count. I try to let 6 swirls pass by but on the 7th I follow it with my eyes and stare at it very intently till it starts expanding. It sort of blossoms and then a very small center starts to grow and into that center I ......will myself. This I cannot explain.

I usually just pop into a dreamscape and ....I tell you folks it is beyond description.


2 days ago I did the above and suddenly with a POP or snap, an actual sound, I stood on the deck of a white sailboat that was leaping forward under a blue sky. I flipped out and started going forward. The wawes were huge but kind and the sea forgiving (easy to sail) but I went to the bow and stood up on the railing and streched my arms out. The wind in my hair the roar of the waves and bouncing of the boat ...I thought I was gonna burst with happiness. Suddenly the dreamscape changed and I was in a car driving and I decided to do some experimenting with.......ok well it was a very nice experience and I woke very happy and am pleased to report that there seem to really be no astral police .....but now I have been there (she was pretty cute) and done that....I better get serious. Made me think that, a lot of folks here like you Jeff probably did a lot of experimenting as well....probably. Anyway I am off the thread subject babbeling.

Regards Mustardseed


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Haematite on February 18, 2004, 08:32:22
Hi to all[:)]
And thanks to Jeff - I'm going to try your tips as soon as it's possible[:)]
My problem is that I've always had spontaneous and confusing OBEs (I first heard bout the term "OBE" 1 month ago) and a lot of WILDs without knowing what they mean and calling them "my halucinations". But I can't rule them - I can't fall into them willingly - it happens from time to time just like this...And it's not very comfortable sometimes because being in WILD several nights one after another I can't properly sleep and rest, my mind is staying constantly at the borderline between sleep and awakeness, I see a lot of "events" happening one after another(like little fast dreams until I'm keep thinking and being somekind awake) - at the end it makes me nervous sometimes cause I just can't fall into normal sleep and take rest. I want to use my OBEs to improve myself but I first want to learn how to rule them.
Be safe[:)]


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: nitetravler on February 24, 2004, 02:23:27
Bravo Jeff, your post was very well written and definitely thought provoking. You've raised some interesting points that differ quite markedly from what many of us have been told about acheiving OBE's, and like others here can hardly wait to put what you say into practice...who knows?



Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: PatrickMM on February 24, 2004, 15:37:07
When you say follow the images in your eyes, do you mean just in a trance state, or when attempting to actually leave your body, such as through the rope method?

Because when I was in trance, I wasn't getting much, it was just black, but once I started doing rope, and I felt some pressure on my head, and started to see things on my eyes. There were these white areas on my eyes, and I followed those, and it seemed to work fairly well. It took me further than I could usually go with rope, however, I still haven't been able to execute a full OBE.

So, are you supposed to follow the stuff when just in trance, or does it sound like I'm doing the right thing?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: FreeFaller on February 27, 2004, 23:55:11
how do you Astro project i cant find it can someone help  send me a message on how to please Astro project i cant figure out how to


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Chris on February 29, 2004, 17:31:54
Some interesting points Jeff.

In regards to the mind awake and body asleep... I think it's just a matter of perspective or semantics. My personal feeling is that the mind is NEVER asleep, and neither is the body (unless dead). I do not see the physical body as one thing and the 2nd body as another thing and other higher bodies as other separate things. Indeed, do you see your arm as separate from your physical body? Do you see the cell in your body as separate? I believe we have one large body comprised of many areas including what we call the physical body and that just as you can move your conscious focus around inside your physical body, you can also shift your conscious focus within your "super body" that encompasses all of our different energy bodies. Whether you are very conscious of your experiences and things going on in these other areas depends on how focussed your mind is. If you are unfocussed, there is very little conscious communication between the various parts. When well focussed then information from other parts can be transfered or transformed into other parts.

So, leaving the body my physical body does not fall asleep, I am simply shifting a large portion of my mental focus to another body. There is still a certain amount of my consciousness residing in the physical body handling it's various functions, but the majority i have transfered to my second or higher bodies. IMHO.

chris


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Eduardo Maron on March 02, 2004, 00:11:34
Nothing is mentoned about the 'vibrations' that some one like Robert Monroe said that you must have for an OBE to happened???
Thanks
Eduardo


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: APGuy on March 04, 2004, 00:03:53
quote:
Originally posted by Eduardo Maron

Nothing is mentoned about the 'vibrations' that some one like Robert Monroe said that you must have for an OBE to happened???
Thanks
Eduardo


Vibrations don't necessarily mean OBEs.  They do often coincide with OBEs however many people have had OBEs without vibrations and I plus many others have experience vibrations without any conscious OBE.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: golding_light on March 06, 2004, 03:28:54
Well I have actually researched various areas about the mind, the subconscious, hypnotherapy, dreaming and so on, and one thing that really suprised me is that I have found myself doing something you have suggested ( the thing where when you relax your eyes, you start seeing things, and you keep focused on it and it seems as though it grows, and then you have more and more control over what you are seeing, and i have actually found myself ind of drift off into a dream world and then suddenly wae up). I dont know if this is an OBE because i dont know one thing, are they supposed to be lucid(meaning i am aware that I am in a OBE, and i can control what I do) or they supposed to be lie how I described them before.

I also have a suggestion for a technique to use to relaxe you physical eyes. You lay down in a very comfortable position, so that your body is loose and floppy, then close your eyes and roll them upwords as though you are trying to look at the inside of your forhead, it will make your eyes sor, but do this for about 8 seconds straight, then close your eyes and you notice that your eyes will start twitching, because they often do when the eyelid muscles relax in this way.

One other thing that is very important for reaching a state of relaxation so that you can concentrate on you mental vison is to breath slowly and deeply, but when you breath inwords you stomach expands and vice versa, this is helping you body relax in its natural way.

Also I am but a novice in the area of OBE's, but my theory of what they are is that because you body is so relaxed, and at the same time you are focusing on your mental thoughts, you are awakening you subconscious (wich you use when you are dreaming, when you are asleep), but because you are still physically awake it creates a more lucid dream, and its almost as though your body is sometimes so lite, as though you never want to move it because it a way you are asleep, but in another way you arent.

Anyways thats all i have to say, and i wish to for someone to give me some feedbac because i love to learn, so please any information on OBE would be very appreciated.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: APGuy on March 08, 2004, 18:35:24
quote:
Originally posted by golding_light

my theory of what they are is that because you body is so relaxed, and at the same time you are focusing on your mental thoughts, you are awakening you subconscious (wich you use when you are dreaming, when you are asleep), but because you are still physically awake it creates a more lucid dream,


Well my understanding is that there is something called a wake induced lucid dream where somebody goes directly from awake to being in the dream world.  Now the difference is that wake induced lucid dreams, although of a higher level of lucidity, are not quite as high as OBEs (OBEs are at an equal to or greater level of lucidity then when you're awake), also most wake induced lucid dreams don't occur in the persons immediate environment like OBEs do, and also the techniques for wake induced lucid dreams mostly involve internal concentration while OBE techniques mostly involve concentration on some sort of dynamic movement.  However, I'm not sure if there is a difference between high level lucidity wake induced lucid dreams and astral projections.  I believe there to be a difference but they are quite similar in that they both take place in a dream-like world.


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Acheron on March 09, 2004, 19:04:28
quote:
Originally posted by Chris

In regards to the mind awake and body asleep... I think it's just a matter of perspective or semantics. My personal feeling is that the mind is NEVER asleep, and neither is the body (unless dead). I do not see the physical body as one thing and the 2nd body as another thing and other higher bodies as other separate things.




Chris,

I am at the moment reading "The Projection of the Astral Body" by Sylvan Muldoon and there is a section that goes into this in some detail, I do not want to quote from the book but for those who have it look at pages 68 - 72.

For those who have not read this book, the author asks what the mind is and where does it go when we are unconscious, he offers that we do not know the bounds, the nature or the locality of the conscious mind, but we know that we use it and that it goes unconscious. It is impossible to believe that the mind evaporates into nothing when we go unconscious or into a coma.

Some people say that unconsciousness or a coma is when the mind leaves the physical body and goes into the astral body, but if this were the case why would we not remember being in the astral body as we do in the physical one ?

What happens to the conscious mind when we sleep ?

I have for the past few weeks been trying to extend the hypnagogic state so I can stay at this level for minutes at a time without trying to project or phase, I am just curious how long you can stay in this state before unconsciosness takes over.

I have in the past without trying been in a state where I know everything is asleep apart from my *mind* and I can think and reason and this *mind* will not go unconscious or sleep, sometimes it seems that I can go for hours in this state and in the morning it really feels like I have not *slept* although my physical body is refreshed, does this make sense ?

Anyway I really value these posts, I have sat on the sidelines for a while and learned an awful lot from you people who appear to be so far ahead of me in your experiences and capabilities.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and helping those who would like to start on the path but cannot see the signposts yet !





Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: ICWiz on March 10, 2004, 17:48:06
Hmm.

Has anyone tried the Ganzfeld effect? This might help in getting a feel for relaxed eyes. I have tried it, its very soothing

--ICWiz


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: LotusLegs on March 12, 2004, 00:13:20
Quote
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
It's at this stage that I visualize myself floating out of my body, and suddenly my heart beats faster and I get an excited feeling, as if I'm very close.

DUDE!!!  That is EXACTLY the experience I get when I try Robert the Bruce's ROPE technique.  And when I say exactly I mean exactly.  It's like I wrote it myself when I read this quote.

I usually get so excited that I lose focus on the rope or try different methods of "pulling."  I feel a humming in myself as well as excitement and a feeling of being really close.[8)]


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: LotusLegs on March 12, 2004, 00:16:12
All this talk about eyes!  I don't think I've ever really tried to see anything.  I hope I don't start making it something I worry about that will impede my progress.  I guess I'll try to see with these Astral Eyes (whatever that means)


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: LotusLegs on March 14, 2004, 12:05:24
With all this talk of primarily using eyes and no real mention of the rope, it seems like you have a whole new method of APing.

Does The Bruce mention anything like that?  If so, which part of Astral Dynamics is it?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: alpine9 on March 15, 2004, 16:12:40
Hi jeff,

  Is this the technique you have the most success with when tring to AP?


Title: Jeff's OBE Tips
Post by: Jeff_Mash on January 13, 2004, 15:15:30
First off, let me explain some things I can and can't do.

I am no expert on OBE's.  I cannot do these at will (yet).  I don't have all the answers, nor am I above learning from even the most inexperienced projector out there.

With that said, I have been having spontaneous and planned OBE's for the last 5+ years.  I do have at least one every week (sometimes more, sometimes less).  And.....I have seen some characteristics that are COMMON to most of my OBE's.

I would like to share some of those with you now, to help you come to learn what I have learned and HELP you in your attemps.

1) YOUR EYES MUST BE ASLEEP

What do I mean?  In a nutshell, your eyes play a BIG role in the ability to consciously have an OBE.  They themselves must be asleep.  Here is what I mean by that.

Close your eyes right now and leave them closed for about 10 seconds.  Just focus on them behind your closed eyelids and observe their activity.

What you will find a number of things happening.  You will see that they pulsate a little.  Your eyelids twitch.  You will also find that the eyeballs themselves move.  So when you're looking at the blackness behind your eyelids, your PHYSICAL eyes are the ones that are trying to do the looking.  THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT.

When I am about to project, one thing I notice is that my PHYSICAL eyes are NOT doing the looking.  I sense the blackness and I "see" things, but my physical eyes are completely asleep.  No pulsating, no movement, nothing.

To really experience this, you will have to remember this post when you wake up in the middle of the night.  The next time you have to get up to go pee or something, when you lay back down, just close your eyes and you will see what I mean.  The physical eyes just sit there behind your eyelids like a zombie.  They aren't seeing or (better yet) LOOKING for anything.

This is one of the steps you need to work towards.  When you lay down to practice having an OBE, spend a lot of time relaxing your eyes.  When you find yourself straining to look at the 3D blackness, catch yourself.  Ask, "Am I using my physical eyes to try and see behind my eyelids, or my astral eyes?"

Once you start perceiving and seeing images without your physical eyes trying to "look" for them, you have accomplished a big step.

2. MIND AWAKE....YES / BODY ASLEEP.....NOT REALLY

Ok, here is a bombshell for most of you OBE students.  We've all read and been told that in order to achieve an OBE, your must reach what has been termed the "mind awake/body asleep" stage, right?

Well, I don't know about you, but I think this has really hindered a lot of people.  Why?  Because they spend all their time and energy trying to put their body asleep that they end up falling asleep themselves!

Have you ever really asked yourself, "What does it mean to have my 'body asleep' anyway?"

After all, your body really doesn't SLEEP, does it?  It simply isn't active.  The heart beats a little slower, the muscles are relaxed, but it certainly isn't sleeping.  It certainly isn't having its own separate dreams, right?

"But Jeff, I think they say your body is asleep because you can't feel it.  You won't be able to sense it so therefore, it's asleep."

Ah HA!  That's where people go wrong.  The reason why you can't feel your body is NOT because of your body, but because of your MIND.  You must condition your MIND to have an OBE.

I believe 95% of you out there who have trouble inducing an OBE fall into this trap.  You spend all of your time focusing on preparing the PHYSICAL BODY for an OBE (which doesn't get to experience it), and less time on preparing your MIND for an OBE (which does get to experience it).

That's like washing your brand new car for your vacation to Disneyland, and then you take the train there instead.

Instead, when you lay down, get comfortable.  Make sure you're relaxed (paying attention to relax your eyes).  Once you relax your eyes, spend ALL of your time working on the MENTAL side of things.

Focus on the blackness behind your eyelids (with non-physical eye muscles).  As your MIND relaxes, the blackness with begin to take on more depth and three-dimensional qualities.

As your MIND continues to relax, these black three dimensional qualities will begin to hold for longer and longer periods of time before fading away.  They will also start to take on color.  

THE KEY IS TO LOCK ONTO ONE OF THESE THINGS AND HOLD ONTO IT.  If you can do that, it usually can suck you right into the astral.  This is also known as PHASING, something Frank was really good at explaining.

While I can't fill his shoes, I hope that this description can give you all a renewed hunger to achieve this state on your own.

3. RELAX YOUR MIND BY FOLLOWING YOUR LINE OF CONSCIOUSNESS

When you close your eyes to go to sleep, by staring straight ahead behind your closed eyelids, you will find that your mind kind of "blanks out", but you don't really become tired.  It's kind of like staring at a wall or something.  It keeps you occupied, but your mind really isn't moving in a downward, relaxed state.

However, if you mentally explore this area, you will see that there is a current, or energy flow that you can lock onto which almost makes you tired, and brings you closer to sleep.

It sounds "out there" and I'm having difficulty explaining it, but its almost like using a key to unlock a door.  If you simply push the key sideways onto the keyslot (aka just closing your eyes and staring straight ahead), this won't accomplish your goal of unlocking the door (aka having a full blown OBE).

However, as you work on turning the key (aka Feeling around mentally for this 'sleep trigger' point), you will find that after a minute or so, the key will slip into the key slot (aka You found the mental state to allow your mind to automatically begin falling asleep).  

Now you can ride that line further and further down by allowing your mind to automatically begin to relax, while you focus on the 3D blackness with your non-physical eye muscles.

Make sense?  In other words, right now, wherever you are sitting, if you were to simply close your eyes at this moment, you would not go to sleep.  However, if you leave them closed and mentally feel around for the right "sleep processing thoughts", your MIND would begin to daydream, begin to wander, and otherwise begin to relax and drift off to sleep. THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT.

Now couple that with the other two points above (by using your non-physical eyes and not worrying about the body), and these are the three MAIN OBE characteristics which can make the difference between an ordinary night's sleep and a wonderful, full-blown projection.

In closing, it is important to STAY POSITIVE.  Mentally tell yourself how EASY this is....that even though you have no idea how to do this, reassure yourself that your MIND already knows what to do, and that you're trusting your own MIND to teach you the steps to reproduce this at will.

With lots of practice and self-introspection, your mind will soon achieve this state of consciousness relatively quickly.

Hope that helps!