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 1 
 on: Yesterday at 23:49:43 
Started by DevilDogDogma - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
The challenge is to become Lucid though, otherwise it is just a recalled Dream and you had no control at all over it.

I was kind of confused lately because all I have been reading here on a Forum named the Astral Pulse is other people's Dream Journals. It's been awhile since anyone has actually shared a story or experience here based on achieving projection while completely 100% consciously aware from the get-go.

In a conscious AP, you are aware all the way through it. There is no getting you bearings involved. You are there purely by conscious intent.

This is a really controversial and complex topic, this will be great, I am ready to dive deep. What is the difference between a lucid dream and a recalled dream?

Sometimes we say that a lucid dream is when you are aware that you are dreaming. Lucid dreaming is when you are aware that you are a human, your human mind set has started to enter the dream. I think if we measured brain waves we would see cortex thoughts have started to get in. This is often why we begin to de-stabilize and wake up, and also why it is more common to become lucid as you approach waking anyway.

Do our human thoughts really belong in these dreams and why is it useful to have them? When we die the cortex and its logical thinking dies with it?

When I am lucid dreaming or...not, it is pretty hard to differentiate for me at this point, I am still making decisions actively regardless of whether I know I am dreaming or human. When I look back at what occurred the contrast is that when I don't know I am human I feel the decisions are coming from the core being level. When I know I am human it is more like waking life, but I feel that our waking life should be more like the core being dream than visa versa. Have we mixed up which of these experiences is actually the higher order of consciousness?

Why is it impossible to learn from the decisions when we make them from a core being level. The lessons are still remembered and make an impact on the next core being experience for me.

In the long duration conscious projection experiences I have had, I have not actually remained aware with the human mindset for the entire experience. It starts off like a human lucid dream and quickly transitions to a core being experience as you get into the flow.
 

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I'm certainly glad that Thomas Edison, Nikola Telsa, Einstein and others of note didn't feel that way. Thomas Edison once said "I have not failed 10,000 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 10,000 ways will not work."
 Achieving something of note, especially a fully consciously aware OBE/AP, by hard work and dedication creates a sense of personal satisfaction on a whole new level.
I think that Tesla did think exactly this way. He made a point in the video posted in the other thread about the benefits of refining his inventions in mind space without actually building physical prototypes. He worked smart and hard while others wasted time, perhaps working even harder than he did on dead end roads. I have watched my own family members exhaust themselves with fruitless labor for years. It makes me very mindful of putting effort into prospects that look profitable. We can't succeed without doing that. I understand Edison's quote, but I think he would also agree that he found 10,000 different ways that will not work, he didn't repeat the same mistake 10,000 times.

What I was actually trying to say is that I am not convinced that it does take a lot of hard work and determination to achieve conscious projection. I haven't proved it yet but I suspect that if we were able to visit an advanced alien culture they would say projection is easy because they understand the requirements fully. Most experts seem to agree that we get in our own way more than needing to overcome some innate difficulty in projection, it is supposed to be natural.

 2 
 on: Yesterday at 22:58:08 
Started by DevilDogDogma - Last post by Lumaza

If you have to crawl before you can walk, might as well get the most out of crawling that we can. We are going to get exposed to dreams each night. I don't see it as a trade-off so much as a very valuable bonus experience waiting to be seized.


I agree with that, You do need to learn to crawl before you walk. What I am saying is that it's the experience, growth and personal achievements that make the challenge to have a totally 100% consciously aware OBE/projection completely worth all of the effort and work.

 LDs come in all forms. Many are based on subconscious teachings and daily occurrences, people and things. The challenge is to become Lucid though, otherwise it is just a recalled Dream and you had no control at all over it. At that point you were just an observer. So, with LDing, you need to first gain a conscious awareness.  You have to strengthen your awareness to be a conscious participant in the Dream.

 I was kind of confused lately because all I have been reading here on a Forum named the Astral Pulse is other people's Dream Journals. It's been awhile since anyone has actually shared a story or experience here based on achieving projection while completely 100% consciously aware from the get-go.

 I have LDs almost every night now. That came as a effect of learning how to AP consciously aware. Not only did I learn to become aware during my Phase sessions, but I also learned how to navigate my surroundings. True I have remembered my Dreams off and on starting as a very young child. But I didn't know how to navigate or alter them.

 The Dream Journals I have read here sound more like recall of the Dream. In the person's experience, they become aware in LD and live out that adventure/simulation. Very rarely have I heard of someone consciously changing the Dream narrative or simulation completely. In a conscious AP, you are aware all the way through it. There is no getting "your bearings" involved. You are there purely by conscious intent.

 
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I feel that our techniques have to be partially to blame for this outcome because they don't deliver in vacuum. Hard work and determination might be pivotal for success, I'm not convinced it is actually, but is also fruitless if the determination is to run into the wall instead of learning how to pass it
I'm certainly glad that Thomas Edison, Nikola Telsa, Einstein and others of note didn't feel that way. Thomas Edison once said "I have not failed 10,000 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 10,000 ways will not work."
 Achieving something of note, especially a fully consciously aware OBE/AP, by hard work and dedication creates a sense of personal satisfaction on a whole new level.

 3 
 on: Yesterday at 22:15:07 
Started by DevilDogDogma - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
I disagree with Thaomas on this one. I see LD's as more of a "effect" of a successful OBE. A successful OBE opens you to a new awareness. That new awareness will be felt in all aspects of your life. Waking or dreaming. You will just seem to notice more in general. Hence the increased LD's.

Lucid dreams are the default out of body experience for us. I think almost every child has them regularly long before successful conscious induced events enter the picture. Maybe what you are saying here is that conscious events further alter the content of lucid dreams by introducing an increased awareness mindset. I can agree with that, but I still feel that lucid dreams are an introductory egg experience and conscious projection is the next evolution chicken in this relationship.

If you have to crawl before you can walk, might as well get the most out of crawling that we can. We are going to get exposed to dreams each night. I don't see it as a trade-off so much as a very valuable bonus experience waiting to be seized.

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Projecting consciously is hard. Repeating it is even harder. But just because something is hard, doesn't mean it can't be achieved. When I hear someone advise another to rely on LDs instead of going the harder route, I see that as a "cop out". This is hard for a reason. You have lived all your life, so far, thinking that you were just your physical body and that nothing lies beyond that. Now, spontaneously or otherwise, your eyes have been open to a new truth. One that words alone couldn't prepare you for. That new revelation should be the result of hard work and determination.

I advised to "re-distribute some of the effort" into lucid dreaming rather than to totally rely on it. If it takes weeks, months or even years, which it can, to achieve conscious projection it would be unfortunate to not have been utilizing the free experiences we get each night.

My intent here was truly to encourage the best results, not to dissuade, so I have to apologize if that isn't the message that was delivered.

To add further commentary to the way I think about this now; I have witnessed lots of people start at the idea of conscious projection with gusto, but the metaphor resembles trying to reach the promised land on the other side of a brick wall by running into it at full speed repeatedly. Almost everyone gets to at least feel the presence of the wall in the early experiences but tend to lose interest before actually penetrating it.

I feel that our techniques have to be partially to blame for this outcome because they don't deliver in vacuum. Hard work and determination might be pivotal for success, I'm not convinced it is actually, but is also fruitless if the determination is to run into the wall instead of learning how to pass it. Advanced machines and learning strategies can be used to teach someone to achieve the same proficiency in meditation in a couple of sessions that typically takes monks decades. We should do our best to work smart and hard.

I guess my bottom line here is that we might have it backwards. Brute forcing the wall can open our eyes to the truth, but if we just open our eyes to the truth the wall comes down. This is why I labored the point of examining motivation before practical technique. I am in the early stages of discovering how we can easily open our eyes to the truth and how that may impact the ease or difficulty of conscious projection.

 4 
 on: Yesterday at 20:55:34 
Started by Lumaza - Last post by Lumaza
 I just found this great thread by Szaxx, a Moderator here. He reiterates the Importance of practice, practice, practice and where it leads to.
 
 http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/to_the_door_perfecly-t36502.0.html

 5 
 on: Yesterday at 20:16:28 
Started by Lumaza - Last post by Lumaza
 Philidan. thank you for your reply and kind words!  smiley I agree with what you say. You must be dedicated to this, that's if you wish it to become a regular part/occurrence in your life.

 I feel the reason people are failing is because they are expecting everything yesterday. Today's World has become a place where everything must happen "now".

 Last night on Coast to Coast AM, Eben Alexander and his partner Karen Newell were George's guests. Eben was talking about his NDE experience and what he learned through it and how it opened the door to his binaural beat program "Sacred Acoustics".
 https://www.sacredacoustics.com/pages/our-story

 I could tell he was having the same problem that all AP authors and teachers on non physical exploration do and that's that people expect results immediately or they file this as a bunch of garbage. He spoke of how repetition is a form of Brain Entrainment in itself and how important that is to the entire process.

  Many people that have used my Doorway technique, have gotten back to me with some favorable response. The 7 people I was teaching before are all off on their own now. It is up to them whether or not they continue what they have been taught. As I have seen, my technique is just a guideline. The people I have taught used it to get to where they are. Then they tailored it to fit something they were more comfortable with. Like I said, the directional focus was only lengthy in the beginning while learning it. Now that that they have repeated it so many times, the disassociation process only takes about 5 minutes to do at the start of a session. It is already "entrained" into their minds. A simple thought on direction immediately creates results. it is immediately followed with either a visual or tactile sensation. Many times both.

 6 
 on: Yesterday at 19:58:53 
Started by Relinquish - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
Maybe we can side step the issue of knowing when we are at the outermost layer of reality and assess the model directly with some assumptions on the possible branches that could exist.

If there is no outer layer, you have an infinite cascade; it poses some annoying problems so maybe we can drop that logical branch as being unlikely or supremely mysterious and unknowable. 

If there is an outer layer it is the true origin of existence. I think this implies that something can come out of nothing. There is no practical way of knowing how long ago the something came about, but it gives us a finite existence.

Other alternatives may exist - perhaps when you get beyond the outer most loop of the consciousness layer, any logical conception we have is invalid.

Its still a really unsatisfying tree. All three branches seem to dead end before anything world breaking is learned.

 7 
 on: Yesterday at 19:56:56 
Started by superman - Last post by Lumaza
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How is that possible because here we often read about the non physical focus to be able to project and about all the "visualisation" stuff... How is that just by focusing on breathing leads to projection? What is your theory on this? Why there is so much techniques when it is that "easy" lol ?
He is still using a Focus. His focus is on his breathing instead of visualization. The key to consciously projecting is to create a strong focused will and intent outside of this physical realm and hold it. He chooses to focus on his breath breathing, like many do. That's the first thing you are taught when you learn to meditate. Other people may choose visualization. Some like more of a "tactile approach". But in the end, they are all methods of focusing.

 8 
 on: Yesterday at 19:35:47 
Started by superman - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
The slow breathing is a natural state for humans. When we are sleeping it tends to be deep in the diaphragm and rhythmic. We lose that with the stress of adulthood and it is unhealthy. Some people call the technique of projection through this mechanism "sleep breathing". They suggest you even go as far as to record your breathing pattern while you are asleep and learn to replicate it. Many techniques are effective for doing this such as box breathing or my preferred Butekyo. You should think of it like an action that induces sleep paralysis, that is what happens in practice.

Focusing on the heart beat or the breathing itself, even if you don't do sleep breathing changes your brain waves. Lucid dreaming and deep meditation tend to be associated with low levels of "beta waves" that usually correspond to cerebral cortex logical thought in our waking state, and an increase in gamma waves. The ceasing of the beta waves shouldn't be mandatory for OBE, but the presence of gamma waves possibly is mandatory. When a person's third eye is open these waves are able to co-exist in synchronization - think of it like experiencing logic, creative insight, intuition and lucid dreaming simultaneously; truly a blissful state.

In general I think it is necessary to reduce the beta waves in order for the gamma behavior to begin, so we squelch the cerebral cortex. The Buddha gave instructions on the achieving the out of body state; "stop naming things". That's the cortex. Focusing on the breathing or heart beat fills your mind with busy work that is intended to distract you from naming things. That is all that is going on here in my opinion. The visualization and non physical focus methods are a kind of advanced short cut into the gamma wave state that can make it easier to make the transition without experiencing uncomfortable exit symptoms.

I'll preempt a question; when you lose your "non physical focus" and thoughts return to your body, you have started to name things and returned to the beta brain wave state.

 9 
 on: Yesterday at 19:30:30 
Started by superman - Last post by Volgerle
There are many techniques, not all are based on visualisations.

Some are more tactile or 'kinetic'.

Your breath is something regular and soothing and calming. Like a mantra you can speak in your mind.
It helps to get focussed. So I believe it can work for some people.

Whatever floats your boat.  wink

 10 
 on: Yesterday at 19:18:42 
Started by Lumaza - Last post by Phildan1
Welcome back!
Those dragon designs are very cool. Too bad I'm european lol, but I like dragons too.

On projection well I think the root cause of fails is mostly coming from the fact that people treat this "life" as a religion, which is cool until an extent and people's enthusiam just wears off soon because they just don't have enough will power and aims, or just life purpose to experience that they are much more than their alter ego here and now. Everything is a belief system, therefore religion and people I guess have big expectations from that crapload which they tend to read through the web, what is the NP and what is it for etc. I guess a fair percentage of humans are only ready for experience the wider reality while they live their physical life and I admit it could be very hard when you (me) experience 4-5 non-physical experiences through your sleep only (not speaking about conscious projection yet) and keep your diary on track as meanwhile living your waking physical life. And I'm not speaking about minutes there, it is hours, long long hours and days, seemingly in physical measurement.
Projection attempts and practice is a very dedicated business and if I'm representing myself here and now I know that I'm not so good in conscious attempts because I'm under life stress, a bad family relationship and life situation - I just realized this after 2 years with help. So what I do is try to do whatever takes me on good mood and enjoy myself where and how I can in my daily life. If we have huge pressure on us personally in life, it can ruin the whole practice I guess with only a thought because that excrement goes on and on in the background in our mind. But meanwhile I extract just enough experiences through my sleep that I always have more questions than answers lol, and NP can be way more real than the physical plane. Well my focus improved but not enough strong I guess.

I won't write much here because I know too surely that people get on the chance and share their beliefs and viewpoints again and every thread goes on them now since a while, which won't help anybody.

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