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 91 
 on: October 01, 2017, 12:23:37 
Started by EscapeVelocity - Last post by Selski
Reading through your dream(s) again, and recollecting some of mine, it does seem like a 'Very Big Ask' of the Dream Operators/Helpers to get us involved in retrievals. Not so much in asking per se, but in how they go about it. It's as if we have to pass/go through a series of tests first before we get to the actual retrieval. The trouble with this is that most of us have all-but lost any coherence we initially had by the time we are needed.

Perhaps that's deliberate. Perhaps they know better about these things. But...but...perhaps they don't. Perhaps they're fumbling around just as much as we do. I think there is a tendency in AP/OBE/Dreaming circles to assume that "guides" have infinite knowledge at their fingertips. Why do we assume this? They may have knowledge about things we don't, but they're not supergods.

This whole 'dream character' business is my current puzzle. What did the surgical astral team require of you? I've always thought they need living persons because the dead one can't see them until they accept they are/might be dead. But surely there's a much simpler or streamlined way of getting us to do that without all these daft tests and hoops they make us go through beforehand.

Bah, maybe I'm a bit disillusioned and it seems I've gone way off on a tangent in your thread - sorry!  tongue

It is a great experience and very interesting. If it were my dream, I'd be most curious about the comment 'Gymnastics'. Love it.  grin
 

 92 
 on: October 01, 2017, 11:42:10 
Started by APApprentice - Last post by Selski
Hi there APApprentice

Whilst I can't help you with your question (I'm not au fait with sleep paralysis), I thought I'd welcome you to the Pulse.  smiley

Are you aware your hands are rising at the time (or do you know this through watching the videos of yourself later)? For clarification, are they your physical hands? The why shouldn't bother you so much - it's learning to experiment when they do. Have you tried the rope technique at these times? Can you move your hands, i.e. do you still have control of them?

My hands/arms were always the first part of my body to separate and I'd spend many a time waving my astral arms around before the rest of me caught up, so to speak.

Not sure if the above is helpful or not. Sorry for all the questions in response to your question!  smiley

 93 
 on: October 01, 2017, 00:03:29 
Started by APApprentice - Last post by APApprentice
Hello everyone i'm new to this site and I got a question. I will try to be as concise as possible. I've been experiencing sleep paralysis since the age of 6 but only recently discovered the condition. I always described it as "you're awake , aware of your surroundings but paralyzed and can only move your extremities". In my particular case I feel the presence of something or someone in whatever room I happen to find myself. 
Now my question has to do with AP.  While researching SP I came across a video on AP and decided to give it a shot.  I have done it two times but never by way of induction. It's pretty easy for me to induce SP but detachment has proven to be quite a challenge.  I do understand that patience is key .

Now to my question,  when I enter SP my entire body is asleep,  my head retracts (tilts backwards )mouth opens up. have a huge smile on my face. Then something strange happens ; my hands are completely asleep (feeling is amazing ) then they begin to slowly rise, moving on their own. During this process I experience powerful vibrations. ...


Ive filmed myself on 4 different occasions. Each video is about 25-30 mins long.
My question is the following: why do my hands rise into the air ? Should I be imagining the rope at that precise moment ? In fact as soon as i'm in SP thats when they begin to slowly move from the cover into the air.

I can post a sped up video if you wish thanks

 94 
 on: September 29, 2017, 16:10:42 
Started by ThaomasOfGrey - Last post by baro-san
Giving respect and recognition for the lives given to our support is all that is required.  ...

Does all that include those who voted against your political views? I doubt it.

If there were an intelligent design, all this is what it is supposed to be. Why would a super intelligent and all powerful entity design something poorly then let it chaotically evolve? There are some blatant contradictions there.

 95 
 on: September 29, 2017, 12:30:05 
Started by ThaomasOfGrey - Last post by Selski
Visitor - reading your post made me want to stand up and applaud.  smiley

 96 
 on: September 29, 2017, 10:30:29 
Started by ThaomasOfGrey - Last post by Visitor
Giving respect and recognition for the lives given to our support is all that is required.  That's what every religion teaches..for good reason.

It seems in this consciousness there is only respect for more perceived intelligence of the human kind.  Any other is denigrated, discounted and made non existent.

We haven't moved an inch forward from the modern colonial era when blacks were thought of as sub humans!  Well anyway we can go back to every civilisation that dishonoured others as being sub-standard.  Nothing has changed at all.

Same things different scapegoat.

We have such a variety of intelligent life right here, right now, that it's off the charts...but we seek to recognise only our intelligence and preferably higher than that but only from outer space.  Nothing else.

And we are so poor in real sight, we fail to recognising and appreciate the gift we are given by so many beings who organise themselves with purpose to support our learning and experience!  They are too small for these mighty brains of ours.

There is no thought that isn't noted, no action missed...all is known.  So just give thanks!  Give thanks to every atom we transmute every day in every breath...and every cell we support in our bodies.....every cell we accept as food ..since really it's all energy ..all transmuted...no destruction...just lessons in awareness.






 97 
 on: September 29, 2017, 01:45:50 
Started by ThaomasOfGrey - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
So in this common concept of ethics, we are trying for a system that results in the maximal well-being for the widest possible number of entities. The tricky thing, is it is still in the context of the domination and power struggle I mentioned earlier. It starts because some group feels like they know what is in the greater good. In order to realize this goal, they have to dominate reality around them in order to impose it.
Yes, this does seem true. There is a name for the break point at which a unit becomes self aware at a level that they can go from some kind of reactive and semi-autonomous mentality to actively taking up the quest and responsibility of altering their behavior. I think it was named something like the third order of consciousness.

Once you take an active step to meddle with the environment around you, you are eternally responsible for the repercussions. Taking control on some level is mandatory to make a change. I see this pattern repeating at levels beyond our reality, the existence of this system and our participation in it is a domination of higher order reality.

Quote
This is effectively what all political power is... asking for the right to the sole exercising of force over a given domain, in order to enact a given goal of their choosing, but we know that old Lord Acton dictum, that, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".  There is the biological thing that happens, where the more power a person has, the less empathy their brain will produce. It is some evolutionary mechanism we have, where we only seem to value the wellbeing of others as long as we aren't winning. When we switch to winning, we switch to a strategy that maximizes our influence, and thus our number and quality of our mates, and / or the resources for our children is maximized.

If the power corrupts idea is really correct wouldn't that mean that the idea of God is absolute corruption? I suspect that the power corrupts observation may only hold true in the short term because those that become corrupt with power would tend towards self destruction. The evolutionary mechanism is a pretty amazing factoid. That strategy for survival has to have worked pretty well for us in the past but it is likely also short term. If humans continued to evolve for millions more years natural selection might create a default where we do value the wellbeing of others even when we have power, since that could be the best strategy for our current and future scenarios.

Where does that leave us? Maybe the escape route is to find a way to have positive influence without exerting power. Kind of seems conceptually impossible though, almost by definition the ability to make change, directly or indirectly, is power.

 98 
 on: September 28, 2017, 19:17:44 
Started by Sp3ctral Sh4dow - Last post by SCHMUSTIN
grin That's funny. How are you getting on now? Not sure if you're still a visiting member, but thought I'd ask in case you are.  smiley

I never got any tell-tale clicks so I had to learn the hard way. For me, it was a case of doing it over & over until I familiarised myself with the correct state. Of course, this meant many failures and plenty of practice.

In order to avoid a total fail, you could slow down the process and rather than roll your whole body, try moving one hand very very slowly. If it moves and doesn't feel physical, bring it up to your face and look at it. 9 times out of 10 if it's your second/astral hand, then it won't look quite right. It could look obviously different, such as a glowing blue haze or it could look similar, but with an extra finger (one time I had rings on which I'd taken off before lying down). If you're still not sure, try the other hand/arm. Then to absolutely test it, push your right index finger into the palm of your left hand. If it goes through, then you're astral!

But even then, take it slowly. You may find you're only half-astral and can't get your legs out. One thing I found useful if this happened was to use my astral hands and rub any areas of my body that still felt physical. Mentally willing myself astral also worked.

For some of us, it doesn't come easily or naturally. Just like learning to play a musical instrument, it takes time, effort, patience, practice, practice, and then more practice.



Selski, Just saw your reply... I am still a visiting member, but have giving AP a break for the last couple months as I feel I was just not getting anywhere and I was imposing mental blocks with with frustration.

I am back on the AP train the last couple weeks but have not had anything interesting to post about LOL.

For some reason. When I first learned about AP I had a great 1 - 2 months with lots of new sensations and success and it felt like I was moving in the right direction. Then one day it just quit! I was unable to experience anything new and decided to give it a break.

Back at it not but still nothing exciting to report. I think I am doing something wrong but have no idea how or what.
Grrr....

O well... When I get it I am sure it will stick. 

 99 
 on: September 28, 2017, 07:26:58 
Started by ThaomasOfGrey - Last post by Stillwater
Quote
If the answer to how much harm can we cause to grow is zero, aren't we dead in the water?


Exactly. Lots of ethical systems logically end with the assertion that the very best and most ethical thing is to off oneself. I ran into that one early as a kid, and to be honest, I still haven't fully refuted it. It is one of the great beasts of ethics out there.

Quote
I feel like harming others for our greater good is what we do every single day, you can barely take a breath without doing it.

Yeah, if you take this world as a closed system, with no metaphysical context, it seems to be mainly about domination. The powerful dominate the weak. Again, if you take this world as a closed system, the thing all beings should strive for is the power necessary in order to avoid being dominated. It is very much in line with Nietzsche's view of the world, and the expression of the "great will to power".

Quote
I try to use a scale of extremes to imagine spiritual profit, suppose that living on earth is the game and that game supports two states: being alive, playing the game; being dead, game over. By these standards winning the game is maximizing the units and the quality of the experience of each unit. Losing the game is some unsustainable arrangement that gravitates towards all the units dying.

Yeah, it is perfectly reasonable to speak in the hypothetical, so while I can't safely say "spiritual profit" exists, I am very comfortable with testing it as a starting point and seeing where the reasoning leads.

So in this common concept of ethics, we are trying for a system that results in the maximal well-being for the widest possible number of entities. The tricky thing, is it is still in the context of the domination and power struggle I mentioned earlier. It starts because some group feels like they know what is in the greater good. In order to realize this goal, they have to dominate reality around them in order to impose it. This is effectively what all political power is... asking for the right to the sole exercising of force over a given domain, in order to enact a given goal of their choosing, but we know that old Lord Acton dictum, that, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".  There is the biological thing that happens, where the more power a person has, the less empathy their brain will produce. It is some evolutionary mechanism we have, where we only seem to value the wellbeing of others as long as we aren't winning. When we switch to winning, we switch to a strategy that maximizes our influence, and thus our number and quality of our mates, and / or the resources for our children is maximized.


 100 
 on: September 28, 2017, 06:23:34 
Started by ThaomasOfGrey - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
Well for me, I have no definition for spiritual profit. I cannot even say if it is a real thing or not, since it depends on all sorts of metaphysical assumptions I don't think it is safe to assume.

True, what is really fundamental in the cosmic scale might be unknowable. I try to use a scale of extremes to imagine spiritual profit, suppose that living on earth is the game and that game supports two states: being alive, playing the game; being dead, game over. By these standards winning the game is maximizing the units and the quality of the experience of each unit. Losing the game is some unsustainable arrangement that gravitates towards all the units dying.

Quote
On the other hand, I think even a child can understand harm. They know what things are unpleasant to them, and they reason that other creatures shouldn't have those same unpleasant things visited on them. Children respect the feelings and safety of their family pets. It is self-evident to them that harm is a tangible thing.

But let's for a moment entertain the idea that spiritual profit may exist:

It really starts to lead to a dark place to me... because we start reasoning, "how much suffering is it ok to cause, if the result is positive for my growth?"

There is a sort of parasitic / vampiristic quality to that sort of reasoning to me. I am very uncomfortable with the notion that it is ok to harm others against their will if we determine it is for our own greater good.

Ethics leads lots of terrible, dark places if applied consistently actually.

Vampirism is a pretty interesting concept. How can you be uncomfortable with these ideas though? I feel like harming others for our greater good is what we do every single day, you can barely take a breath without doing it.

If you look at harm without the tradeoff of the benefits gained you are paralyzed in this reality and others. If the larger consciousness system generates a fresh unit, knowing we are likely to suffer in this reality, it is doing harm. But it does it anyway because in the long run there is a tradeoff for growth and it needs this process to live. If the answer to how much harm can we cause to grow is zero, aren't we dead in the water?

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