I decided to post this in regards to something Frank said in his newsletter, that he can't seem to understand the definition of mediation.  The truth is, the definition has become confused over time.  There are several definitons of the one words depending on your culture.
On one end of the scale, meditiation is simply thought on a single subject, and at the other end of the scale medition is deep silence of the mind, leading to OBEs etc.  Basically, it's the silencing of the mind to concerntrate on one thought and that thought alone to gain insight.  If you're a star wars fanatic, 'search the force'.
I look at it as 'deep thought on a single subject'.  Mentally sorting out a problem in your mind.
The mystic definition of meditation doesn't work for me.

Don't take what I've said as solid truth, these are just my thoughts.  Any comments welcome.

Andali

Hello!  I'm back!  Too much school work is keeping me from doing anything I want to do and I keep on running out of Internet credit at school.  Sooooo, VCE should be condemed.  Onto the topic of the post.

From what I've been reading recently, it seems when we're talking about AP in a foC way, then saying 'projection' would be rather inaccurate.  To project is to go 'outwards' but we seem to be going inwards so rather, you'd call it astral injection but that word's a bit iffie as well as it sounds like you're shooting up on the Astral.  Weird.

Anyhow, what would you call it if not projection?  There has to be some funky latin word we can pull from somewhere to better describe the process.

On another topic, I have been seriously slacking off lately in regards to foC.  I've been meaning to revise my f2oC rundown but I've almost forgotten the basics.  Can anyone refresh my memory in regards to the difference between Franks f3oC and Monroe's, if there is a difference, and what to do to achieve an f2oC state (aside from the rundown, before that).

Any comments greatly appreciated!

Andali

u got the link wrong neo:

http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/?mforum=kiela

You're sending people to a dead end, eeep!   Update the link!


Andali

P.S. hiya all!

dude, i have to get a credit card if i ever wanna get this book.  There's no way on earth (or any other realm/focus level, whatever) that anyone I know is gonna let me get it (though I'm 18 on Friday so then we'll see who has more control)

Andali

P.S. I've only have mild phasing experience, mostly in FZ.  And then everything else is just spontaneous projections.  I think its odd though, putting F4 into words, though I've gotten to that stage (or even close), I find that everything else is hard to explain.  You'd have to invent another language to cope with these new experiences, there's an idea!

Yes.  I’ve been lazy and the main reason for that is because school is stressing me out.  I hate the education system, dumping everything on you last minuet and then telling you its due in two weeks.

That’s mainly the reason I haven’t even being doing relaxation.

I’m not totally void of doing anything, but as per usual, spontaneous RTZs still greet me with open arms (so to speak).  Saturday morning, still haven’t left my room but that’s a work in progress.

Anyway, the reason I’m posting this is in regards to F2oC.  I haven’t really sat/lay down and full out tried but I haven’t done anything at all lately really.  I have problems concentrating on my rundown, because its so simple and I get bored with it and end up giving up and going to sleep.

My rundown is basically me(trying 1st person) sitting beside a stream in this nice forest garden thing I created mentally a while ago, and I’m threading a daisy chain.  I can’t keep thinking about the smells, the feel of the daisy stalks, what I hear.  I get confused and then other thoughts creep in that are more interesting.

I like the rundown, it’s better than peeling potatoes, as even in reality, I hate peeling potatoes.  First time I tried the potato peeling, just because I had nothing else.  I ended up wandering around (mentally, imagination here), up onto the deck of this pirate ship were I tried to recall a song I was working on and ended up fooling around and dancing (this was all taking place in my imagination, dancing and whatnot, I was directing the sequence of events).

The only thing I’ve noticed so far is that when thinking about, or doing my rundown or any other thing using imagination, after a while, I’m able to more easily imagine what I’m seeing.  It becomes clearer but by coming clearer, I start to think about other things when that happens.

Basically, I want to know what I’m doing wrong, or, if sticking it out is the best course of action.  No matter how bored I get, keeping doing the rundown.  The boredom is my main problem.  I know, how can you be bored!  You’re trying to get to F2oC!!!!  It’s the repetition, that’s all.

Aside from that.  Even if anyone shares they’re experiences here, I can maybe work something out.  Any advice, ideas, anything?  If I’m doing anything wrong, or leaving something out, tell me!  I want to do this!

Andali

Something similar happened to me when I decided to stop trying for AP for a while.  I woke up one night and thought, damn, I'm awake, then I decided to try and go back to sleep and as I was drifting off, I got paralysis.  Something chronic.  Screeching noises, no movement, scared the hell out of me.  It happened on an off but not with such a painful severity as that first time but eventually it just faded off all together.
I don't know why but it kind of stopped after I started trying AP again.

Weird?

Andali

" ever wondered if you choked a smurf, what color would it turn?"

Okay, I'm trying to explain the concept of AP/OBE to somone but they refuse to believe that it has nothing to do with demons, witchcraft and all the like.  They beleive that as soon as you leave, some other entourage of whatever will try and take u over while you're out so to speak.

For a fact, I know this is false but how can you explain that to someone that seems adament and set in their ways?  As far as I can see, it's impossible and no matter how hard I try, the conversation ends up turning into an argument, and others seem to be on their side too.  Okay, I'm tiptoeing around here, the one I argue with is my mum, and her point of view (though I know terribly much more on the topic than her), and my brothers and sister jump on the bandwagon like she's right because they don't know any better.

The topic keeps cropping up and it's beginning to really get on my nerves because I can't seem to get my point across no matter what angel I try to go in at.  Whether it be from dreaming, or even something else, she refuses to even consider my point of view.

At one stage, she even went on these forums, which is why I created another username.

Not only was it done behind my back, but she literally read all of my messages!!!!  All 200 +, or so she claims, but I don't beleive that for many reasons.

The problem is, the argument is getting on nerves, that and the fact she keeps bringing up the whole "why are u using the forum if you're not trying for an OBE"

I would then say something and she'd make some unwarrented comment such as "why would u want to hang around with a bunch of nutters?" referring to the people on the forum, here.  Those that have helped me!

I keep trying to dismiss the argument, no, I've been having dreams, no, I didn't try, I don't try, I had a dream.

Please, anyone, some advice?  She's so stuck in her ways I can't get a damn thing across from my perspective.  She believes in all the mystic and old age c*rap while I'm trying to convince her otherwise but it's like she's stuck in a groove, demons, evil spirits.  Arrrgghhhh!!!!

Anything at all people!  I really want to lay this argument to rest but I want to do it so I we both end up happy with the result, though somehow, I can't see that.

Anything at all is appreciated

Andali

I had the whole RTZ space thing, I recently posted it actually but it was amazing!  I had been in a dream that was way too vivid, wondered if I was dreaming, realised that I was, then tried to fl.  I got yanked back by this massive force thing and ended up rocketing off into space heading towards the moon.  Problem was, I hadn't intened any of that to happen and it did.  And when I woke, I forgot about it and then about three hours later, something triggered the memory and it all came rushing back and it was like "whoa dude!" and I was tripping out for about an hour tryna take it all in.

Andali

When someone says 'event horizon' to me, I think wormholes and stargates.  Maybe that's because I'm a sci-fi fan but yeah.  
Zero Point is also another stargate term, though there's an M on the end and funnily enough it stands for 'zero point module' it's a device with a heckavalot of power in it that allows the stargate to dial 8 chevrons instead of the usual seven, contacting a wormhole in another galaxy.  It's actually an Ancients device they used to power their city, Atlantis, which in the show, never came from earth, if you've seen the show, help me out!

But yeah, I like PZero or PZ and even ZeroPoint, ZP, but does it matter if it ends up being a name already used? ZPEH? Zero Point Event Horizon, though as jilola said EH isn't really fitting.

I think PZ or ZP, IMO, what'd you all think?

Andali

Sounds like a plan!  
Hey, does anyone else besides me think we're like on the pioneering edge of this?  I mean, now we're naming things like some scientist person would if he discovered a new planet (well, planet X isn't all that original) but we actually have a meaning behind this name and that's what counts!

Teamwork is what it's about people and Point Zero is so cool it makes me laugh, it sounds kinda sci-fi-ish.  Although there's only one problem I see, people would have to get it right as P-0 not, PO as if people start calling it ("sounds like: oh!") instead of zero, than they may think we mean something else, point "p*iss off", P0.  The reason I thought of it was because one of my friends said it, maybe.  I like the name but if we had to think of an alternative, PZ perhaps?

Andali

Hmm, okay, nothing to worry about then.  It was just a bit too much to take in at one time so I kinda tripped out for a while.  Anyway, I've figured out a way to stop those spontaneous projectiosn that seem to plague me so.  Last night I spent about an hour dancing and that tired out my body, not leaving enough energy for anything else to occur.

Anyway, Frank, how do you mentally move into the 3D blackness stage/F0 because I can't get past the edge of it.  Mentally going forwards, I don't get it.

Andali

Thanks Frank.  That clears a hellavalot up for me.

I tried a mental rundown last night, one I was familiar with though I think I was trying to do too much at once and didn't get anywhere.

At some point though, I ended up in F12, though it was different from the F12 I was used to.  The black space in front of my eyes took on depth and what I was looking at seemed a lot larger than it should have been.  In fact, it had a lot of depth, but from there, I thought too much about it, couldn't concentrate on the rundown and ended up quitting for the night.

That morning, I woke at 5.30am and got up, had a drink, and went back to bed where I tried to go back to sleep.

I ended up thinking about my rundown but found myself in a dream where I was trying to sleep in a bed, in a room I've never been in before but someone came in, I know who but it didn't matter cause I was pretending to be asleep (in my dream), and as soon as they entered I started getting pre exit vibes.  Though it was odd because I had vibes in my dream but they were transferring from the physical, the two kind of layered for a moment and I couldn't get a handle on what was going on though it was quite lucid as I recall trying to wake up and move but kept kind of rising into the air in the dream, not wanting it to happen in the dream and then I managed to wake up and realised I had had vibes in reality.

I rolled over and attempted to go back to sleep, only to realise it was going to happen again so I made myself uncomfortable to stop it.  I didn't want to go RTZ that early in the morning.

From that I ended up in another non lucid dream that transferred to a lucid dream that was unbelievably vivid though I can't recall what it contained.  All I know is that it seemed too real.

With vibes in dreams, I know I could have turned it into an experience but I had no intention to and kept trying to stop it, grabbing at the dream bed while floating away.  That was accompanied with rising and falling feelings and a downward spiralling thing above me somewhere.

Sorry I can't be more specific as I was more focused on stopping it though I want to remember the lucid dream, OMG!!!!  It just came to me!  I did go RTZ!  Holy c*rap, my heart is beating mega fast now.

I was trying to get somewhere in some other wherever, as part of the lucid dream, in a shopping centre I think.  I was trying to fly but I was up near the roof and couldn't go forwards, something was forcing me backwards and I think it was that future wind thing Robert Bruce mentioned in his treatise.  I ended up somewhere and somehow was shooting up into space towards the moon!  Bell, damn it!

~*~*~ cont later.

I spent the whole first period of school freaking out!  My pulse rate was right up and I thought I was shaking a couple of times.

I can’t believe it!  It didn’t feel like part of the dream and I think somehow I RTZed from my dream!  Into space!  OMG!  It was darker than what I imagined but I never made it to the moon but why the hell was I heading there in the first place?  There was an unbelievable amount of distance I could feel behind me and I was going so fast then obviously lost energy or something and I forgot!  Until I started writing this post sometimes this morning!  I was all giddy and off centre for half the freaking day!

I haven’t even made a decision to leave my room so how the hell did this happen?  Gosh, every time I try something new I end up overshooting the mark by light years (pardon the pun).

I don’t know if anyone can understand what the hell I’m thinking right now, I did it, and forgot and now the realisation of what I actually did is more than I can handle at one time.

Sorry for the language by the way, I’m kind of shaken but excited at the same time.  Oh man, um, Frank, can you answer the questions I had before I went off on this tangent, how long should it take on average to expand to f2oC?

Sorry for the length, I think I’ll take a break from this (focus states and such) for a week.

Andali

OMG.  That clears up sooooo much Frank, THANK YOU!

One question, when you refer to the 3rd person to 1st person switch, let me see if I can put this into words.  When I visualise, I usually try to see things out of my own eyes, 1st person, but, then there's a kind of distance in the visualisation.  I feel further back from the first person view, but still tring to see things from my own eyes though I don't get full 1st person view.

Um, this may not make too much sense, but are you referring to 3rd person as this detached-distance feeling that's not a full 1st person?  Unless you mean to imagine yourself walking or whatever, feeling yourself, 5 senses, from the outside?

Sorry about teh clarity in this, but can you clarify the 3rd/1st thing please?

Andali

Thanks for explaing those F states Ben K.  I've been wondering for a while if the monroe foCs are different from the ones Frank is always talking about.  I had no idea they were classified together, just with different names, etc.  That clears a lot up for me.

Question: to engage f2oC, you have to engage the physical senses, without moving or whatever (of course, that would kill whatever you try to do), engaging them inside your mind?  Correct?  I just wanna get all this down cause I'm in the process of starting over from the beginning, breaking down all the expectations I've come to have about phasing and whatnot.  From there I hope to have a fresh start without the belief constructs holding me down.

Andali

Come on!!!  Someone answer poor Shzarnie's question!!!!

Andali