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Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. April 18, 2014, 15:35:10

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1  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Do medications and medicines interfere with astral projection? on: Today at 11:04:38
Sorry.  I meant if you go to the home page, the Bedeekin method is under the heading, Astral consciousness.  But looks like you already found it anyway.

Another cool thing about this method is you'll know if it's going to work for you probably within the first few min. of your attempt.  Your visual field (blackness behind your eyelids) will become dynamic and have depth.  Almost sort of a tunnel effect.  When you see that, you know it's going to happen as long as you stay still and keep a quiet mind.  Back when I was doing this method (inadvertently --I hit upon that sleep schedule by accident) I was projecting just about every night.  Always consciously.  Wide awake conscious, too.  No grogginess.  Now that my schedule has changed, I only project once or twice a week.  So much harder for me now.  I should really get back to it.  Anyway, I know you have the med. issues, but best of luck if you try it and with your meditation!
Thaks soarin yesh I'll defineatly keep this method in mind. And good luck with your astral practice it sounds like your a natural almost.

2  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Looking to move to another country to learn about Astral Projection,where to go? on: Yesterday at 08:32:49
P.S. I will be going to a 1 week trip to India and see what it's like over there. Any recommendations?
Make sure you have a backup plan if you get robbed, or any other number of things that can go wrong on a trip to a foreign country.

Good luck.
3  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Do medications and medicines interfere with astral projection? on: Yesterday at 08:24:13
Hey plasma.  I don't have the answers to your questions, but I just had the thought to ask you if you've tried the Bedeekin method under Astral Consciousness?  It's the same way I did it from the beginning. I didn't even know what AP was when it happened to me.  I had set up the conditions for projection by accident, and when it happened I was totally shocked.  The reason I love this method is because you hardly even have to try. (As I said above, I didn't try at all.)  The process initiates itself and if you just lay still with a quiet mind, it'll just suck you right out.  I literally had to fight NOT to project on many occasions because it just kept sucking me out night after night and it was scaring me that I seemed to have no choice in the matter.  I know everyone's different and it might not work for you the same as for me, but a lot of other people besides me swear by this method.  If you haven't tried it already, give it a read.  Here's the idea.  Get up early, nap at 7 or 8 pm for an hour and 1/2--no more, you don't want to dream. (you must be tired for the nap and do not project at the nap)  Then go to bed around 2 hrs. after you wake up from your nap and consciously project.  See the thread for details.  Smiley

I only read a little bit about Bedeekin method the other day. Just checked there is nothing about "astral consciouses" in it. It sounds like it probably won't work, since I have to take my medicines to sleep. I'm talking right now with Xan in depth about this through PMing, and so far he is saying that should just focus on meditation, which I am good at. The Bedeekin method does seem like a good method. Thanks for your suggestion soarin.
4  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Do medications and medicines interfere with astral projection? on: April 16, 2014, 02:45:58
I knew I should have made my post smaller.
5  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: no common sense on: April 16, 2014, 02:42:28
I use to be kind of like you bear, we all deal with this type of stuff in one way or another. Don't beat yourself up. If you were ever abused or beaten or even just had corporeal punishment as a kid then that might have something to do with it, and this effect can even be exaggerated in kids with mental hindrances. IDK if that describes you at all, but we all deal with similar things. So like lionheart said go and list some of your qualities and focus on those more.

Am a little weird too, but am also very unique, and smart in my own way.

Good luck.
6  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Has anybody visited the sun? on: April 15, 2014, 23:31:53
dam I can't wait until I learn how to project. lol
I remember Marilynn Hughes talking about going into other dimensions by going into the sun. When I told them here about that they said if you believe it. LOL I bet that is more common to go into higher dimensions in the upper levels though. She use to talk about being out of body for days at a time. Quite a women. Though she does seem to get into some of the mystical stuff.

7  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Do medications and medicines interfere with astral projection? on: April 15, 2014, 10:53:21
First off it's been years since I seriously tried to astral project. I was absolutely determined at the time to astral project. But my health prevented me. I was doing the method where you go to sleep and wake up for a while then go back to bed and try to project. [EDIT: But it was too hard on my health to do in any real meaningful way at least then. My health has slightly improved. The main thing was trying to stay conscious while sleeping ended up lowering my sleep and my immune system.] I am chronically affected health wise. I don't want to really talk about it in detail. If any of you want or need to know then just PM me and I will share. Even though it as bad as it is, I still might be able to do it. I am not fully sure if I want to get into astral projection like I did years ago, but I definitely want to talk about it, and see what you guys think. I am way past the part of believing as most beginners seem to struggle with this.

I have only astral projected maybe 2 times when I was sick some years ago. They were short, but I've had lucid dreams before, but these seemed like they were not like lucid dreams. Though I can't say for sure. They were both very short. One was bright in a city the other in a dark place. And when I woke from the dark OBE I felt my spirit body enter by physical body. But they were so short.

I know you guys probably can't say for sure if my medicines will interfere with astral projection, but perhaps you guys have some insight. I take herbal, over the counter, and prescription medicines. Most of which help me sleep or help me deal with my tinnitus which is really bad. Though I will mention that I do get music in my head that keeps playing over and over almost all the time. The music usually changes to whatever I listen to recently. I mentioned this some where that I have really bad tinnitus.

The one thing I have been doing quite a bit of in cycles is meditation. I know how to unidentify with my surroundings and even my thoughts to a degree. I have felt what it's like to ride the mind on the breath. Quite awesome. I know what it’s like to have all your awareness being one pointed. But I always give up, for a variety of reasons. I feel like I am slowly losing my mojo over the years for my own experimental spiritual experience. Sometimes it’s for health. Sometimes just get bored of meditating. Sometimes this and that. I have always acted kind of bipolar, but I always come back to meditation, When I do meditate, I can meditate for hours a day sometimes. I love meditating many times with my eyes open. It keeps my mind aware, and alert. I also notice that when I meditate on the heart more often than not I will get dreams where I am really mad, or really sad about something. And once and a while, I think something is just so funny. I get terrible nightmares if I lower too many sleeping medicines.

I know that if I can astral project, then many more people can astral project than what I would have thought. I fear that my medicines would interfere too much with the bodies natural chemistry, and even if I do get a little success, but just a small change in medicines might affect future outcomes, thus making it predictable might be hard. So it would make it hard to find one good technique and stick with it perhaps. Among all my skepticism that I can't do it, I have some hope. My hope is that perhaps there is something that can work. The one thing I can do is meditate. And all the other things that people can do to help them project during the day. But that is not when it counts the most. That is all that I have to my advantage though. And if I can use that to teach myself to project then that would be great. I usually fully asleep while most people are talking about vibrations and all this stuff. I rarely get lucid dreams. And I rarely get any vibrations.

Usually every 6 months I might get a lucid dream if I am lucky. Never got lucid dreams as a kid though really. Though I did record and think about my dreams a lot when I was a kid. I did get a lucid dream not too long ago, though I quickly fell asleep. No doubt I feel like my medicines are likely preventing me from astral projecting. And they will likely cause inconsistencies in trying to project since my health and symptoms go in cycles. I know you guys probably have the standard “anyone can do it” mentality, but I am skeptical. I know the effects of medicines and molecules on the spiritual body can be extremely strong. For instance we have all heard of people that undergo anesthesia and have an OBE, some go high into the heavens. Or psychedelics for instance. So if these medicines can can make on go toward the spiritual realms, then naturally there should be medicines that make one go in the opposite direction.

OK so one of my thoughts is that I can use meditation to help lead me to astral projection. If one can learn to draw their attention into the non-physical through meditation, then this would be the route I wouldn’t mind going. I have experience with numerous mind states though meditation. Though labeling them is something else. Probably since they are so subjective. Recently I like the idea of experimenting with space in my meditations. Though I also had the idea of trying to phase while awake. I am use to different mind states through meditation. And I tell them apart many times. Whenever I talk about mind states at spiritual forums they say no need for thought or trying. even though many of my mind states are pretty natural without much effort, IDK.

I also have another cool idea. It’s that I can wake up a few hours before I usually get up, and use an e-cigarette to help myself become lucid. The idea is that nicotine is an acetylcholine analog. In other words nicotine mimics the effects of acetylcholine. And lucid dreams have used acetylcholine enhancers for a long time with decent results for many of them. And of course lucid dreaming is next to astral projection.

So the main questions are.
1. May my medicines interfere with astral projection?

2. What about a specific meditation that could enhance astral projection?

3. Also how effective is waking imagination for helping one astral project?

8  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Fictional Worlds Exist on: April 11, 2014, 23:53:11
I remember Robert Bruce talking about using your imagination to get in touch with the non-physical. He also recommend energy work. I know for me there has been times where my feelings have effected thoughts. We know molecules can give certain feeling, eg serotonin can give a calming feeling, Oxytocin is the love hormone. We look at psychedelics and see how a physical substance with one or more molecules, can make a spiritual experience. My only thought is that somewhere the lines are blurred between what is actually physical and what is non-physical. There must me some kind of middle ground here when talking about the physical versus the non-physical. I don't think is entirely correct to separate the two. Since then there would be no interaction between the spirit, and the body. There must be some parts that have a little bit of the physical and a little bit non-physical like a medium between the two. Figuring out that is a mystery as of right now, just like a lot of spiritual questions. I don't mean to confuse the conversation here between what is physical, and non-physical, but rather give my input on how I see it, and perhaps spark some imagining.  wink  In the mean time let's stick to what the avid astral projectors are telling us on what works.

9  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Looking to move to another country to learn about Astral Projection,where to go? on: April 11, 2014, 06:30:59
If your afraid of how kundalini will effect you then just stick with water meditation. And stay away from fire traditions.

Also I heard that you want to work in India. This sounds more like you just want to get out from the place you are at right now, than to seclude yourself so that you can meditate many hours a day. You just might be able to do it if you go part time. I am thinking like 20 hours a week if your lucky. But that could easily be pushing it especially if you get a stressful job or a long commute, which would negate the meditative benefits. So I doubt this is going to give you the benefits you think you are going to get. Most all the spiritual practices that you think they have for you at an Ashim you can learn right from your computer or books right off of amazon or something. So if I were you I would just focus on secluding yourself right at your current place you are living, and meditate many hours a day there, and practice astral projection while your at it. If you are insistent on going to India then go to like I said and type in Bangalore, India into the "within * Miles of" box. But IMO I don't think this is going to give you what you are looking for. And if you think you could prove it to me other wise, then tell me what you think going to India is going to give you, more than staying where you are currently at? I know you were talking about not having to deal with car problems, then why not just buy a new car? And if your can't, then why do you think going to India is not going to give you car problems. If getting public transportation is an issue. Then find someplace near you that has public transportation. In the end if you mostly just want to get out of your current situation for non-spiritual reasons then say that. I'm just having a hard time believing that you have to go to India. Do they have any places where you can meditate where you live right now? Try and see if you don't know.

10  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / About yesterdays crazy thread with psychedelics, meditation, & cryptic talk. on: April 10, 2014, 02:54:38
This post is referring to here.;msg344888#msg344888

For those of you that haven't heard my apology yet. Let me just say straight out, I am sorry for my part in what happened at this thread. Let's read on to find out more.

Some thoughts about yesterday. You should all know that I was tired yesterday. So today I don't feel as bad having slept, and especially after having talked with Aaron via PM. Szaxx has also been supportive via PM. And so after having Aaron tell me that he couldn't figure out what either side was trying to say. I got a good laugh out of that, after having read it. So I see that it wasn't just me that couldn't decipher this cryptic language.  I also apologized to Aaron for what happened with my part in the whole thing, since I know it was his thread to begin with. I see Aaron as an outsider viewer, and think his voice is valuable here in understanding the dynamics of last nights conversation. This was his perspective “I'm sure there was definitely a bit of them leading you on as well though.” He saw it go both ways though, as I admitted I messed up too I feel like I naturally had a wall up. I still have a wall up, I am tried again now. LOL Sleepiness and debating don't mix. LOL OK back to serious talk.

[EDIT: As you can see I post too quick. I hope I don't end up editing this more. I will send all of you PM's when i am fully done editing this. Upon further reflection I thought I would add some words here. I think the post went bad when I answered Xanth by not taking his cryptic game seriously in his first post. I knew he was likely doing this. And so I posed a question to him in response. In the end I started this whole thing in when I interpreted Xanth first post to mean that my unmanifest post was all metaphorical. Yet in looking back he may have not had been saying that. And it just slowly snowballed from there I guess. Even though I answered AstralZombie just fine.

Perhaps I made too much of a deal with the cryptic talk on this page, IDK.

It’s very easy for man to look at things as black and white. He’s right he’s wrong, but the truth is often times multicolored, and multifaceted. Having different and seemingly opposing views that somehow fit together in and bigger picture. I often do look at things this way, but not very much yesterday in a certain way.

Also I think my underlying thought was that I really did want to understand what Xanth was saying I was just frustrated trying to relate it to my psychedelic post.

Also just because I was being a bit sarcastic, and overly bearing, and all that stuff, I did ask a lot of questions that didn’t get answered. I also said a lot that showed I was serious about this, and not only trying to be a bit sarcastic and whatever else. So those are my extra thoughts.]

[Edit number two: I want to add that I will not act like I did here again. And I also took out some of the cryptic talk here Xanth, Somewhere inside of me thought I was probably having too much cryptic talk here so I went ahead and deleted some of it.

I assure you guys that my underlying intent was to learn, I was just not channeling some past negative mental energy energy correctly.]

As far as me being condescending, I think I was being a more humorously sarcastic than condescending IMO. BTW I never called anyone names. But there was a some sarcasm and belittling on my part, Xanth was kind enough to call it “extremely overbearing” and saying that I was not being a jerk or belittling. IDK if words can truly describe it all, since beliefs have a lot to do with it. AstralZombie’s post at 65 could be interpreted as being sarcastic, and belittling. Which didn’t help, though I didn’t reply with any sarcastic, belittling, condescending, statements to him, yet he felt at liberty at the end to call me belittling and condescending when Xanth the main one talking to me didn’t use such harsh words. Its not like this is the first time me an Xanth as talked, with 248 posts to be name. I am sorry for the negative effects of my actions. At the same time IMHO you guys that are use to this cryptic language stuff didn't even see how this was belittling the main post on that page. The original topic on that page that was begging for some real input that not only I could understand, but Aaron could also understand. Aaron the original thread poster seemed to really like what I had posted. Somehow I think in some way I was more wrong than you guys, but just maybe you guys were more wrong than me in some way. At the end of the day and I am sorry for the role I played in the whole thing. But at the same time you guys did play a part too. - Knowingly or unknowingly I know none of us at the time thought we were belittling or should I say overbearing to anyone hardly, but that is just the way it turned out, and that was the effect of both sides actions. That is just the way it happened.

Most of you didn't know that before the thread closed I wanted to work this out through me and Xanth PMing each other, by totally starting from the beginning again, and redoing this in order to figure out what else could have been said, and learned. Of course by the time I got back the thread it was locked. So I ended up PM'ing Xanth about it anyway. All of you guys are use or know this cryptic talk, that is why you’all took Xanth side right away probably. You understood what Xanth was really saying. But in the real world, on earth, in the physical, this cryptic talk is not typical.

I do take the spiritual path seriously, regardless of what you guys might think. Also I know that you guys probably practice more spiritually than me, but I have my reasons, often health related why I don’t. Even though I am feeling better today about it, I am still kind of put out by it all. I felt in a way that some of you guys kind of kept letting me dig myself in deeper while you guys couldn't do anything better than using cryptic language, or talk about things that were not related to the main post for that page. That is just the way it is. I can't be too upset about it since many times we do and say things we don't really mean, or we haven't thought about it in a certain way, or something like that. So it is what it is. And that is just going to be, the way it’s going to be. Meaning let go. It’s the past.

For the record Xanth after I asked  you to answer some of my questions you said ”Well, I didn't see any questions... just statements and rhetorical questions which you answered for yourself.” I did ask questions. And even if I did answer some of my own questions I still wanted you to answer them, as it would have helped. There was only one question that I didn’t want you to to answer. But usually if I ask a question I want an answer. So I found all in all I found 7 questions that you never answered Xanth. I was being patient too in my own way. And the questions I didn’t answer from Xanth 1 maybe 2.

This is meant to help explain my position since I feel I was singled out here. It’s not meant beat Xanth up. LOL I was dealing with a lot too.

I have a theory that if I had just seriously answered Xanth first question, and if I had taken it at face value instead and went along with his cryptic game, that this all may not have ever happened. Xanth needs a opt out option for those he uses cryptic language with. LOL I also want to thank Xanth for being patient with me, so thanks for that.

I will not respond to any cryptic talk, and I will likely not even respond to debate, unless specifically asked, though cautiously.

I will say one last thing. Silence can speak a thousand words.

11  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 09, 2014, 03:10:57
A solid few hours of perspective gaining thought... nice.  LoL
You've got a lifetime to reflect upon it.
What is that Russian your speaking, with a Ukrainian accent? I'm just letting you know this is not helping me, it's likely to make me think your even more out of touch than I originally thought. The people on the psychedelic forums will know what I am talking about more than you guys............... I would have expected more from this place.
12  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 09, 2014, 02:27:28
Now that I have finally done what you said Xanth and took a step back I realize what went on. A lot of you (not all) either knowingly or unknowingly totally detract from my post. And whether I was staying on topic or not is irrevent. And this is for two reasons. One the original poster here Aaron liked my post, (this is his thread you know). Two, I am probably the only one that has kept this thread going for so long, and if I stopped this thread would be dying or at least wouldn’t be very active.

Also it seems that most of you were not really interested at all if peak psychedelic experiences had anything in common with the pinnacle of the worlds meditative traditions. And to post whether or not I had accomplished anything was just another distraction from what I was trying to point out. One thing at a time guys, I will answer that, but this is not the time or context for it. Lets see if we can first learn something here from this, since it must rise or fall on it's own merits, and not mine or yours specifically. A reporter doesn't have to part take of doing an act they are reporting about for them to have respect. Only if what they present is true should they be given some respect, not if they part took with the report. So then if you are curious I will tell you what I have accomplished. But not now.

And deepspace it seems like you fell for what everyone else was doing. Your first post had nothing but good to say. While or second post took a huge turn for skepticism, and over what I have accomplished, to changing the topic, to talking about “other peoples theoretical accomplishments” that is a stark contrast to what your original post talking about “We know this state exists and I, like you definitely want to experience it.“ Why the change in tone all of the sudden deepspace as soon as you heard what others had to say?

13  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 09, 2014, 00:09:57
And... after travelling all that way, will you be the same person?  Wink
I'll answer your question, if you answer Szaxx's question?

14  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 23:54:19
A thought exercise, can you say true or false to this.
Travel 1000 miles east then 1000 miles north and follow this with five mins rest then go 1000 miles south.
Question, is it now possible to end up where you started from?

15  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 20:43:33
Oh my...
Just, oh my... O_o
Well that can happen if you talk cryptically. Don't expect to put this all back on me just posting something so simple as that.

I want Szaxx to weigh in on this. And see what he says.

16  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 20:20:22
Most notably is the concept of "metaphor", as I mentioned above.
Yes I know what you are saying. It's not a metaphor though. I have no idea how much you have read into other religions so at this point I just think that the main thing you believe in right now is astral projection, and that you haven't taken other religions as seriously as I have in understanding them. So you just think it's a metaphor. Try telling the Dali Lama that shunyata is a metaphor. Though the Dali Lama admits he isn't enlightened. That doesn't mean it's a metaphor. And if I did what your doing by speaking all that cryptically here none of us would get anywhere on this subject.

Besides the meditational religions. I just gave a crystal clear example of someone that reached a literal unmanifest. What do you think, the guy was taking a metaphorical psychedelic too? LOL Actually I pointed out 2-3 people that took a psychedelic to reach the unmanifest.

Another concept is the one where we say that everyone has a unique perspective of reality.
Yeah as long as I believe that I am enlightened, then I will be eternally freed from all karmic effects, and I will never have to reincarnate again. This would be funny if it wasn't so far from the truth. I know the connection here with the "your own truth" you were talking about.  

you've even stated the string that binds them all together, you just haven't made the connection yourself between all of these ideas.
Ummm I'm just letting you know that you directly contradicted yourself here. Let me guess the connection is actually metaphorical?

I try not to give people answers... which is why I'm sounding rather cryptic right now.
It's a pride thing, I know. This happens not only with people that think they have high spiritual knowledge, that is above us knowing sometimes, or that we don't deserve it, or that we have to work for it, it also common in advanced meditators. Your not the only one. Pride is a read phenomena that is common in the spiritual path, but you must shed it to go higher into the spiritual. I also see this phenomena with psychedelic users. Especially the ones that are figuring out new things, and they have to use a lot of their time to figure things out. Now there is some truth to the use of doing this type of thing. But that is only in extreme cases, only where what you say can be used against you to hurt you. And I am not talking about losing a debate here. I am more like talking about not giving nuclear weapons technology to people that might use it against you. Pride is not for people that truly do what to know the truth, and who will not use it against those that give it to them.

In the end  to know if you should speak cryptically you should ask yourself is this actually helping the person or am I hindering that person. I don’t mind a little cryptic language here and there. But you have to be very careful here.

Lastly what if the scientific community did what you are doing, by talking cryptically. It would take forever for us to get anywhere.

AZ's post is actually very to the point regarding this. It's more important for you to figure these things out on your own. That's was takes it from the intellectual level into your very being and stays with you forever.
huh I guess I need to buy some 5-MEO-DMT, can I pick you up some? [Edit BTW that was a joke. And i do get the part about figuring things out on my own. That is all I have been doing really. Meaning I have no physical teacher with me. Most of it has been me seeking it, both on the Internet and in practice.]

What I'd suggest is taking a mental step back from everything you think you know about spirituality and give a look at it from a whole.
Your talking in Russian. I’ve had years to think about these things. All I can really do is..... well I have already done everything needed to prove this state literally exists. Do you want to find actual meditators that have reached a literal substrate consciousness, and they can tell you about it in plain English. I can probably do that too. I can think of a few off the bat I think.

If all your trying to do is humble me into understanding what it experientially means to go inward to the source then I think this is a terrible way to do that.

17  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 18:59:42
Too much double-talk.

Absolute nothingness

Oneness with everything

Infinite in a single instance

disintegration  manifestation

nothing was everything


This is called dazzling with BS. I understand that it is extremely hard explaining such experiences in any language but all these phrases...wait, I do understand "absolute nothingness" now that I consider it in this context.

It's not that far out to think that it would be hard to explain. Even basic meditation can be hard to gasp, the idea is learn how to focus on everything and nothing at once, though it takes a lot of training to do this. Now that may sound like a contradiction. All it basically means is you train the mind to be aware of everything, yet being unattached, unbiased which only slowly leads to the ability to focus on nothing, all at the same time. So what is that like, it's consciousness, stillness, being, silence, and stillness. And if something arises you don't suppress it but become aware of it. Yet remain as unattached as you can. That is all. It can take a lifetime of meditation to get good at this. Advanced meditators can feel inside of their body, and their organs from what I've read. This is because the light of consciousness spreads throughout not only the mind, but their body, and even beyond.

18  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 17:49:40
Too much double-talk.

Absolute nothingness

Oneness with everything

Infinite in a single instance

disintegration  manifestation

nothing was everything


This is called dazzling with BS. I understand that it is extremely hard explaining such experiences in any language but all these phrases...wait, I do understand "absolute nothingness" now that I consider it in this context.

Actually the word manifestation definitely doesn't describe this state. Yet it's so close to it in a certain way. Since you must in a way become one with all manifestation in order to eventually just dissolve, and be born into God/your source/the unmanifest as it were. Or unborn into God, depending on how you want to see it. The unmanifest which is just the ground substrate where all manifestations came from.

I'm glad you found a way to see it in the way that is best for you AstralZombie, unless you were just being sarcastic. In which case I wouldn't be too surprised to have some opposition here.

19  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 17:10:10
It confirms for me something I have concluded from my own search for the truth: The default state is nothing and that all things that are said to exist are manifestations of consciousness.
Glad to see you got something out of that.

In order to be able to experience this in the absolute, you must be able to completely lose yourself, who you are, your connection with everything you know and have known. You must be prepared for this, not just a mental preparation if you know what I mean.
Yeah that is why I have thought about secluding myself for many hours of meditation everyday. Haven't been able to consistently do it. Though I have a pretty good idea of how to meditate, and have some good experience behind my belt. As they say meditation is the learning how to focus on everything and nothing at the same time. LOL

It's very possible that your body releases large quantities of DMT when you die, in that case we will all have a big trip at the end.  smiley
Yeah, though our bodies would produce other molecules in a more balanced way to make it more manageable, so that it doesn't filter out as much as a psychedelic trip.

I do think we will be able to experience this absolute unmanifest void in the afterlife for sure, maybe even here too. If and when I'm ready for it here in this life, it will happen.
I wouldn't be so sure about automatically becoming enlightened at the end of life. This is something meditators take a lifetime to perfect with at least 40,000 to 80,000 hours of meditation in a lifetime. Though they do say that the time, and type of death you get is very very important for making it to the upper realms. And I wouldn't could on this system to give you the comfort you need at the end of life. If you leave it up to the system your bound to be left in a nursing home for years, if your lucky you might die quickly from a heart attack. Our care of dying seniors is still very much archaic and barbaric. The Catholic Hospitals will keep you alive, and force-feed you until your last dying breath, even if you have an advanced directive saying that you don't want to be force-feed if you deny food. Get informed while you can, before you become a victim of the system. We put many of our seniors through hell at the end of life.

We know this state exists and I, like you definitely want to experience it. We have no disagreement at all on that. But I think what we're really discussing is which path you take to get there. There is more than one way to get there for sure. For me, I prefer to take the slow and steady path because that way I can be prepared for the experience. There is also a lot of value in the partial experiences.

But it's also very possible that my AP trips are really DMT trips anyway since we may be producing it internally.  smiley
I doubt we make enough DMT to trip during an AP, but it seems very plausible that small amount of endogenous DMT is vital to making good AP trips, but right along with other tryptamines like 5-MEO-DMT, and serotonin and all the other things that keep us out of our body, and able to go deeper.

As far as the best path to God, our source. Well ultimately speaking I would hope that we could use a little bit of everything, to get a synergistic effect. Meaning the total effect of each, would be amplified, if we just combined all of them. Though not necessarily to combine them all at once, as this is not possible many times.

Wow. That was beautiful. Definitely caught a tear from reading this. That is the kind of Oneness with God I've always deeply desired since I was a young Christian. Thanks for the post smiley
Glad you got something out of it Aaron. I was definitely in awe, and humbled when I first found this out.

20  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 15:03:48
Have you looked up the term "metaphor" before?  Smiley
LOL are you saying that the Buddha metaphorically meditated for years, only to reach a metaphorical Sunyata. LOL Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you are saying. Besides the Buddha from many years ago, we have people in this day and age that have reached enlightenment, or Sunyata, or substrate consciousness. They are rare but their are a few.

That's all your describing.  Metaphors... the different ways and words people use to describe the same thing.  Understanding another persons metaphors allows you to attempt to understand what they're saying.
No I am interpreting an experiential experience, not a metaphor. The only way that source of consciousness is a metaphor would be in a way that it's just too abstract to put into sufficient words. Not that it doesn't literally exits.

What you're describing in your above post is what I (and others here) call "the void"... Tom Campbell calls "point consciousness"... others yet here call it the "3D Blackness"... and there are many other terms that go beyond that.  All different metaphors to describe the same thing.  That "absolute nothingness yet pure bliss and consciousness".
Perhaps point of consciousness is in the unmanifest. But let me be clear. It's easy to confuse the higher Samadhi's with the unmanifest itself when talking in basic language, such as 3D blackness and point consciousness. If you can think in any of these places then it's not the source consciousness. It's impossible to think in such a state I am talking about. So let me ask, can people think in such places to any degree of a degree? An even better question is are people self aware in any of these states? Since it's not possible to be self-aware when at your source.

You are correct that nobody has a monopoly on the truth.  Even further to the point, there are 7 billion people on Earth... there are also 7 billion truths.
There is no monopoly on the truth, because truth is unique to each individual.
Let's just clarify right now that there is such a thing as ignorance for what you call peoples truths here? Certainly ignorance and it's effects are real in the world. So just because someone believes something to be true, doesn't always make it true. So in the end it's a bit out of context to say a persons truth can also be their ignorance. Truth and ignorance are two different things. Perhaps a better word for what your talking about is beliefs instead of truth. Since beliefs denotes both a persons truths/light and ignorance/darkness.

21  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 06:53:43
Let me just point out right now that I will be talking about some very interesting and rare information here that should be very intriguing for all serious spiritual seekers. In fact I should almost make this into it's own post.

Tripping and being enlightened are different things.

I am sorry I don't mean to pick apart everything your saying, I just like getting down to the truth as I have learned it from others. I know this is anecdotal evidence I am pointing out here to a degree, and it's an area that is really unstudied. But to answer to the statement you said, I think the answer is yes and no. Since I have run across two people that have reached the height of reality where I mentioned before, it's a place of pure nothingness, pure silence, pure bliss, pure consciousness, there no form is there, there is nothing to behold there. It’s the height of perfection. As I already mentioned it this place of utter surrender to reality into the void of pure bliss. In Buddhism it’s called Shunyata or nirvana, in Taoism it's called wu chi or Wuji, in Hinduism it's called the unmanifest or Brahman. I like to just call it the heart of reality that is beyond description. So I have found 3 people that have reached this place of 100 percent perfection with psychedelics. One of them only told me about it in a PM. He’s did it with a high dose of a powerful strain of psilocybin mushrooms. He has done it a couple of times. Now before you like your kidding me right, trust me it's not what you think.

OK so the first is right on the internet. Right here.

It’s from a book Tryptamine Palace: 5-MeO-DMT and the Sonoran Desert Toad by James Oroc

In it he talks about reaching this place of absolute nothingness yet pure bliss and consciousness. Now if you actually look at the experiential experience of both states from the meditational religions, and that of the psychedelic at it’s peak, you will see that they are indistinguishable.

So if you go to the page linked right above and then type nothingness into the search bar you will see exactly where this is at. He describes it is in beauty. Now remember we are not looking for all the effects before reaching the void, but in the void of nothingness. They are two different states. We are comparing the experiential experience of nothingness here with the psychedelic, versus what the experiential experience of nothingness in meditational religions.

“Colors entered my perception in impossible layers as the rate of dissintegration increased in exponential leaps. Any concept of 'time' or relative 'space' fractured into a quadrillion holographic pixels and was carried off along with the rest of manifest existence, in impossibly fast motion by another quadrillion overly-anxious, nano-sized, carnivorous ants. 'I' seemed to travel some immense distance in an instant, or more like a non-instant. My perception at once exploded and imploded infinitely. Matrix/lattice-like color patterns gave birth in non-time to explosions of sparks which were galactic in the inward scope and scale. Simultaneously, these explosions recured, compounded, echoed, moving my consciousness inward and outward in unimaginable magnitude, 'eventually' into the yawning maw of Nothingness. All ability to fathom halted. All sense of 'I' became totally transparant, instantly g-o-n-e. No Self/Ego. Breathing, heartbeat, Earth life, past experience... never existed. Absorbed into the infinite, timeless, all permeating, Singularity; the sheer titanic bliss of the Void. This lasted forever. It was a Death, ummm... what can I possibly call 'It'?. It was a state? The anihilation of experience, actually. Infinite, unmanifest potential. Words do not really work, here...”

“Within the space of a few heartbeats, I had completely expanded into God.  Eyes open in absolute awe and wonder, the room dissolved, my ego dissolved, my entire world dissolved.  Everything I had ever known or thought or felt dissolved away into absolute pure nothingness.  There was nothing to see, nothing to experience, nothing to perceive.  Absolutely pure nothingness.  And this nothingness was pure consciousness.  And it was love.  Infinite love and infinite perfection.  Everything was in a state of divine perfection.  Nothing was out of place.  Nothing was either good or bad.  Nothing was right or wrong.  Everything was simply perfect in this pure consciousness, this pure state of being.  And this state was not a thing.  It was not an object of perception.  It was not a concept.  It was not an emotion.  It was not anything that I could describe in any way.  In fact, when asked later, I vaguely described it as “living starlight,” but even that was not accurate, for in truth, it was nothing.

 But that no-thing was everything.
 It was God.
 And it was my deepest nature.
 I was one with God.

Not my ego self.  That was pretty thoroughly obliterated through the impossibly fast 5-MeO-DMT expansion.  It was not as though I identified my personal sense of self with God.  Rather, it was that the deepest core of my being, not my ego-identity, was identical with God.  As a finite being in a body with a sense of self and identity, I was an expression of God.  At my core, at the very deepest level, my nature as an incarnated being was one with that pure consciousness, that infinite love, that infinite source of creative energy in which all things exist in absolute and unquestionable perfection.  In those few heartbeats, this beautiful and sacred medicine had opened me up to the All.  I had accepted my own divinity.

“Thank you, God!” I called out as my hands reached up towards that infinite expanse of nothingness, a few moments after the hit of psychedelic medicine flowed out of my lungs.  Eyes wide open, gaping in sheer awe at the mysterium tremendum, I embraced God, and the embrace was returned.”

Now let’s get a few words that describe what this state is like in meditational religions. I talked with a friend of mine and she confirmed with me that these people are reaching what Hinduism calls Nirvikalpa Samadhi. It is the highest possible meditational state in Hinduism.

Let’s see what wikipeda says about it.
Nirvikalpa or sanjeevan - This is the highest transcendent state of consciousness. In this state there is no longer mind, duality, a subject-object relationship or experience. Upon entering nirvikalpa samādhi, the differences we saw before have faded and we can see everything as one. In this condition nothing but pure awareness remains and nothing detracts from wholeness and perfection.

The key here in understanding the similarities is that there is nothing there. In the manifest world there is always a thing in from, for us to behold. But in this state there is nothing to behold. Since you and the object dissolve into oneness. You become one with everything in a way. THere are many that call this state a place of nothingness. This is key in understanding the similarities. This is the real dying to the world. Not the dying to the world that the christians understand.

OK so let’s look at the definition from wikipedia on Sunyata from Buddhism.
Śūnyatā, (Sanskrit, also shunyata; Pali: suññatā), in Buddhism, translated into English as emptiness, voidness, openness, spaciousness, vacuity, is a Buddhist concept which has multiple meanings depending on its doctrinal context. In Theravada Buddhism, suññatā often refers to the not-self (Pāli: anatta, Sanskrit: anātman) nature of the five aggregates of experience and the six sense spheres. Suññatā is also often used to refer to a meditative state or experience.

And lastly in taoism there is Wu Chi or Wuji for explaining this state of nothingness.

Wuji 無極 (literally "without ridgepole") originally meant "ultimateless; boundless; infinite" in Warring States period (476-221 BCE) Daoistclassics, but came to mean the "primordial universe" prior to the Taiji太極 "Supreme Ultimate" in Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE) Neo-Confucianist cosmology. Wuji is also a proper noun in Modern Standard Chinese usage, for instance, Wuji County in Hebei.
The word Wuji
Chinese wuji "limitless; infinite" is a compound of wu "without; no; not have; there is not; nothing, nothingness" and ji "ridgepole; roof ridge; highest/utmost point; extreme; earth's pole; reach the end; attain; exhaust". In analogy with the figurative meanings of English pole, Chinese ji  "ridgepole" can mean "geographical pole; direction" (e.g., siji  "four corners of the earth; world's end"), "magnetic pole" (Beiji  "North Pole" or yinji  "negative pole; anode"), or "celestial pole" (baji  "farthest points of the universe; remotest place").

Now again this seems to be the same thing. They even use the word nothingness as I said. And again any differences between the definitions here would be trivial IMO. IMO we can go to the pinnacle of all the world’s meditational religions, and we will see the same thing.

So as we can see, not only is there these similarities within these meditational traditions in talking about the source of being and reality, but also with psychedelics. You may wonder how I found this out. As I don’t think there has been any book that has covered this broad of a relationship here between not only meditational religions, but also with psychedelics. Well I have a lot of time on my hands. And I have done a lot of soul searching. This is information very few people on earth know right now. Who would have thought that you could become the Buddha for a couple of minutes if you could break that barrier with the psychedelic in order to reach the source himself. And remember here the guy that took the psychedelic, and merged into his source.

Now I also have some PM’s with another psychedelic user that talks about the same type of experience. Using words like “absolute nothingness”, “so still”, “zero thought” “infinite silence” and “absolute volume” These words totally describe the state I am talking about above. And again any differences would be trivial IMO. Particularly since there is nothing there. LOL Not even the self is there. Meaning you are not self aware in such a states. Now this guy did it from taking a strong dose of psilocybin mushrooms, and not 5-MEO-DMT like the other guy I posted above. So there is probably other psychedelics that can do this too. Also note that 5-MEO-DMT is 10 times stronger than DMT. So I think I will leave it at this, and if anyone wants me to post an edited version of our conversation I will. Excluding his name of course.

So to answer to your statement "Tripping and being enlightened are different things." I think the answer is a bit more complicated than that. So it's a yes and a no to the statement. Obviously if one takes a psychedelic and reaches nirvana they still have to deal with the an untamed mind when they come back. Now this also posses a very advanced question for future generations to answer. What if in the future, at the end of your life when you are ready to die you take a psychedelic cocktail to reach this place of perfection, but you have it timed to where once this takes full effect, then have doctor would assist you with an intravenous injection of something to end your physical life on earth. Will you be liberated into the unmanifest with perfect bliss? Very interesting question. You would have no multidimensional bodies to go back to. You would have shed every single layer of your multidimensional body. Becoming unborn as it were spiritually.

Now you can't buy 5-MEO-DMT, but you can buy frogs that have 5-MEO-DMT in it's venom. I guess the main part of the venom is 5-MEO-DMT LOL The frogs are not illegal. But I think smoking the 5-MEO-DMT venom is.

Lastly I want to point out that nobody has a monopoly on reality and truth. Not the christians, not the Muslims, not the Meditational religions, not astral projectors, not wiccans, not shamans, or dare I say scientists. [Edit: note I say scientists not science, were still fine tuning now science is done.] And I have strong reason to say that even about scientists. If you want, I can get into something really big on that one. But I will leave it at that for now.

I think you can have high value experiences without them, but I won't judge their use and/or say it's wrong or even unnecessary to use them. I apologize if I've done that.

OK well that helps me understand you position a little better. Thanks for that. And I hope you don’t take me picking apart everything your saying the wrong way.

Also when I talk about BS appearing reports, I am also referring to Astral Projection reports since they are also "trips" into the Non-Physical. But if you just look at them for their real value, it's not important if they "really" happened. It would be kind of silly to debate that anyway.

I think when I said taking them at face value I meant that I generally don't go in with biases on what the experience should be like. I don't think I meant that I document it and don't know how to apply it to anything. Perhaps face value was not the right word.

22  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 08, 2014, 01:53:59
I'd caution against taking people's reports at face value. I've read quite a few in various places. Not impressed by the some of the short novels certain people write which appear to be either grossly embellished or just completely invented. Looks like are trying to either get attention, impress people or establish themselves as some sort of expert. At the same time, some of the same people are constantly trying to interpret the experiences of the "less experienced" people where they try to come off as a teacher/guru. Their comments often contain subtle slights and minimize the value of others in order to make themselves look like an authority. Fortunately, I can see straight through their BS.
When I say taking them at face value that is generally speaking of course given the assumption that most of the people posting are not going to be on BS. And by getting the general feel of what these psychedelics are capable of I can gain insight. Though IDK there that many make up trips as you are saying, to sound like an expert. Perhaps I am wrong. Maybe you can enlighten me. I would have to call many other testimonies from experimentation into question if I do that though perhaps.

In the end let me just clarify that you are not saying that I should give up on trusting psychedelic trips reports that I read in general to get a good idea about what these things are capable of right?
23  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Looking to move to another country to learn about Astral Projection,where to go? on: April 07, 2014, 23:47:18
Do you want anymore help with this Detuned_Radio?
24  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 07, 2014, 23:39:08
In researching a bit on what a breakthrough DMT trip is like I guess there is not set definition, kind of like I suspected. But for me anything that doesn't give you spiritual growth from either higher states of being or other intelligences wouldn't be a breakthrough. Unless one just want to use it for intelligent fun use and experimentation with a low dose of DMT, but I wouldn't call that a breakthrough.

Edit: One user reported this which is what I would go with as the most likely definition.

"There is no clear definition of the word. Experiences can vary in so many ways.

It usually means that the effects of the psychedelic you´ve taken override your normal sensory perception, wich can lead to OBE´s, experiences of other worlds that feel very real, etc.

You´re flooded with psychedelic input until you will no longer stay afloat in normal reality, but 'go under' (often it also feels that way, especially at the beginning).

Vaporised DMT also acts quickly and because of this has an extra 'stunning' dimension to it.

But oral psychedelic´s like shrooms, mescaline, ayahuasca and ibogaine can also be this intense and overpowering, though less rapid."

25  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How do OBE's compare to physical reality? on: April 07, 2014, 23:26:15
How do you know if I had a "breakthrough" experience or not? Just curious. There are also what I would call "breakthrough" experiences in AP for sure. I think you have to be careful when attempting to judge the value of other people's experiences, it's best to stick with your own. I'm trying to express my opinion about psychedelics which is based on my experiences only. Other's may have different ones based on theirs.

It's hard to get an exact definition, but if I were to take an educated guess it would be where you get out of body for your psychedelic trip. For DMT users this is called "DMT hyperspace". It's where you aren't even in your body anymore, and you often don't have any memory of your life on earth while there or any memory of who you were. And you in just utter bliss and oneness in the heavenlies, and while there you can be given messages which often help you in your spiritual path. That is what I call a breakthrough from what I kind of remember. It's been a little while, but I think I got a pretty good idea here.

BTW in talking about "how do OBE's compare to the physical reality" this is kind of related I guess. It's just under the filters of the psychedelic when talking about a breakthrough trip.

As far as attempting to interpret other experiences I don't have much of a choice as of right now. I have done very well in interpreting others experience so far generally speaking. And if I didn't do any interpreting and judging I would be even more lost on the bigger spiritual picture of what is going on in the world. In attempting to judge your psychedelic experience it's not like I am comparing apples and oranges IMO. Like comparing your psychedelic experience to that of a Christian, but rather I am comparing your psychedelic experience with other psychedelic experiences, all at face value. I am looking at what other users report too in contrast to yours. Certainly if a scientist does this type of thing there will be a need in the scientific community to keep the scientist away from experimentation, kind of like what I am doing. Though there is always the need for the Alexander Shulgin's.  cheesy  Scientist and experimenter.   grin

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