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51  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: October 01, 2016, 06:28:46
You only need to stay still when you wake in the morning. Just be aware of yourself and don't move anything. Opening your eyes kills it. Put yourself as an atom floating in the room like an air element then wait with strong intent to see a whitewashed background. Enlarge yourself so you can see the room and if successful it'll appear in 360 degrees vision. You can stay still and look around, look sideways then try toove slowly forwards. This will be interesting for you as your point of perspective was sideways you'll move in a different direction from what you perceive.
Best of luck with it.
You don't need supplements, just intent.
If a 9 year old can do it, I'm sure you can lol.
You know Szaxx, if anyone here could convince me to try and astral project again it would be you. You have done more to help me than anyone else here. And I must say that you got me seriously thinking about it again. But I admit that I really think it would take a lot of effort and time for me to accomplish this than what you would think it would take. After all you have been astral projecting naturally since you were a kid. So be understanding for those that aren't naturals at it like myself. For you I will try some of my own techniques that I like using. And maybe I'll incorporate some of this stuff into it too. I can't guarantee that I can keep up for years without success but I will try to do it when I can.  grin  And if I do succeed then I am sure it would only motivate me to go further. Perhaps micro-dosing magic mushrooms would help.  evil grin

Either way thanks Szaxx.
52  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: October 01, 2016, 06:13:58
No, not saying he's been doing it since the 70s. I was referring to the 'peace movements' here in the US from the mid 60s to around the mid 70s. The Stoners if you will. Psychedelics were big back then.
I can respect your thinking on that. My personal experience has led me to think the opposite. I'm just not into medications outside taking something for an illness. Drugs are partially responsible for damaging my mother's life and she was not a drug-head. All she did was follow doctors orders.
 Nothing that dramatic more like if I can walk I don't need a wheelchair.
I am sorry your mother died. But let's be clear here any drug that is prescribed is prescribed because the that medical professional has weighed that the pros outweigh the cons any given medication. So if your mom died it likely wasn't because of any drugs prescribed.

I would be dead a couples of time over if modern medicine didn't come and save me with medications and treatments, and I am only 34 years old right now. I've also just recently dealt with severe depression caused by a rare reaction from an acne antibiotic medication. And am still recovering months later from that but overall I've been saved from them more often than not. You just have to be very careful taking any sort of drug and even not taking medication once you get old.

This is correct. I can say without experimentation we may as well quit. One thing, my comments are rarely ever to be taken to extremes. I usually stick only with my own thoughts and experience. I think if you want to experiment and you find something that helps you then you should go with that as should everyone. Take what you need and leave the rest. This is a good topic for discussion.
Finally someone gets it here. Finally someone understands that it's not necessarily about what everyone else is doing. It's not about the standard versus the fringe. It's not about that at all, it's about WHAT WORKS!!! And please correct me if I misrepresentation what you meant there. What actually works to bring us closer to our source/God/Love whatever you want to call it.

Thanks for chiming in Nameless.
53  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 30, 2016, 19:09:27
I will reply to the rest of you's later.
54  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 30, 2016, 19:09:09
I just got a few minutes in to the video and heard psychedelics.  I advise any one using any kind of drug to know what they are doing.  To be fair I will watch to whole video.
P.s. I am not sure if I can watch this all the way through.  The guy just looks like some one that has used too many drugs.
Leo has just started taking psychedelics. In fact in some of his recent other videos he advised against any drugs while talking about enlightenment. But he like many others have found that classical psychedelics pose no physical addictive potential. In fact psychedelics are increasingly used to treat addiction with a very high success rate.

Besides Leo has also been working on self-actualization and enlightenment work hardcore without any psychedelics for about 3 years. So if anyone is qualified enough to give an honest look at these substances well call psychedelics it's Leo. He's about as unbiased as you going to get, because he's been on both sides of the field.

EDIT: And yes it's vitally important that one fully researchers any drug/substance/molecule/psychedelic they ingest. I'm fully with you on that.
55  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 30, 2016, 02:32:22
I agree that it is good to do things to make ap easier, like you said training wheels.   If it involves using drugs it is a bad idea.   It messes up your brain.   I would imagine it would mess up your ap experiences as well.   You can become addicted to using drugs.   I am very grateful that I do not use drugs.   Life is hard enough without adding another problem.   There are a number of other ways to get training wheels without taking drugs.    
OK you say that now then tonight when you go to bed, your body will probably release DMT and 5-MEO-DMT to help you astral project. LOL

Again this is a personal preference. What is a God sent for one person can be hell for another who abuses the same substance. It's a sharp double edged sword. Used rightfully it creates heaven on earth. Used with ignorance, and carelessness you create hell on earth.

Again, this is not a topic for babies spiritually just as a sword needs it's a mature handler.

To your credit we do need more studies with these things. So it's understandable that your skeptical of any such means of spiritual growth. But IMO it also means that you don't really understand them either. If you did then you would know that psychedelics aren't addictive except for the dissociative psychedelics. And that anything can be psychologically addictive including food and working out. Do we not eat food because they can be psychologically addictive of course not. Everything in moderation.

Thanks for chiming in Astralsuzy.

It sounds to me like you already made our decision. So why even ask people's opinion here?
Well I've never if ever have heard astral projectors talk about such a deep experience. Clearly what Leo experienced was a true spiritual experience. And if you think it was just a drug high I think your poorly mistaken. But yeah I thought you's would find it interesting at the very least. That is really mostly what I was hoping for.

There have been other threads like this here on the Astral Pulse and they ALWAYS get the same response. You already see that we don't need "drugs" of any kind to succeed here. It takes patience, practice, perseverance and a focused will and intent to succeed.

Good for you taking the soon to be old fashion, tried but true route to astral projection. Why do I call it soon to be old fashion? Well nanobots will be coming soon to give us astral projection on demand. So many will opt to go that route soon.  wink

Many others and I have attempted to help you over the years with conventional methods.
Yeah and I am very grateful for that. If I wasn't I wouldn't be still hanging around here.

But for one reason or another you always made excuses why they wouldn't work for you. If you had put half the time that you spent asking questions here at the Astral Pulse into your practice, you would be a natural by now.  wink You have been a member here since 2010. That's a lot of practice time there.

The most I got out of learning about astral projection wasn't the methods, but rather it really helped me loose my fear of hell, since I grew up in a fundamentalist christian home. Besides I've been juggling a health condition back then. And now I'm juggling being a College student and a job. So Excuse me if I don't have too much time for this. And I admit that I really wanted to astral project years ago. But do you know what happened? My health was so bad at the time that I became discouraged with learning to astral project. Every time I tried to astral project I would would have sleeping problems. And just a little bit of sleeping problems would worsen my health condition. Luckily I no longer have those health problems like I use to. But I am very busy. In fact I should be working on homework right now. But this is a very interesting discussion to me.

I have opened other people's eyes up to another possibility, the NP, using my L/S Machine in the past. But not one of them pursued this any further. They saw what they saw and just kind of thought it's not for them I guess. I was shocked. I always thought the "magic pill" would work. But now I see I was mistaken.
Once I get out of College I'll probably go back to working on astral projection methods. Today I told a guy at college that what he experienced could have been astral projection. So I am still on your side. I am the one that is telling others about astral projection too.

Lastly I see right through your post here. You used a logically fallacy called ad hominem to attack me and my character rather than the substance of this talk. So let's not make this personal. OK I am still on your side. I still love astral projection. I still dream about it. Last night I dreamt that I was flying. Let's not make this psychedelics versus astral projection. Since I really strongly believe that one day psychedelics and astral projection live in harmony within society.
56  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 30, 2016, 00:35:36
HI Plasma, can't speak for anyone else but the reason I fell silent was twofold. One 'life' happened meaning I got sidetracked in the here and now. Two, I don't care to experiment with drugs (natural or not). I've seen that look Leo has many many times, especially in the 70s when psychedelics were all the rage (again).

As bad as legitimate doctors are at prescribing medication these days I would seriously run from any of them that got into prescribing government sanctioned psychedelics. LOL.

And it's just not necessary as all these states can be reached quite naturally.  
Thanks for replying Nameless. I like to talk about this subject. OK a few things. So as far as I know Leo just started doing psychedelics. So were you saying that Leo has been taking psychedelics since the 70's? I am confused since you worded it weird.

Also I would be dead if it wasn't for medications prescribed by doctors. And when psychedelics are legalized and they will, it will be done with purity, controls, and medical personal present. I would feel totally safe in such a controlled environment knowing that if anything went wrong I would have medical professionals ready to help.

Define natural for me because we seem to have this idea that natural is somehow better. Volcano's, avalanches, tornadoes, hurricanes, cyanide, naturally genetic diseases, natural disorders. None of these things are good yet they are natural.

What I think you might be really trying to say is "being able to reach these states without help." No that doesn't make sense. OK "being able to reach these states without the help of substances like 5-MEO-DMT." OK but that doesn't make sense either since 5-MEO-DMT is probably endogenously released when we astral project, and without it we probably couldn't astral project. We already know that the body produces 5-MEO-DMT by itself. See there is no difference fundamentally speaking. If one person relies on endogenous DMT (from the body) good for them. And if someone else relies off of exogenous DMT (outside the body) good for them for finding some very good training wheels that would take the other guy a long time to figure out on his own probably.

At the end of the day saying psychedelics are "just not necessary" is like a cave man saying to the inventor of the wheel. "Why do you need a wheel when you can walk it's more natural?" Or telling a child "you don't need training wheels to help you learn to ride a bike it's more natural if you don't use training wheels." As you can see it's a personal preference. And not only that the wheel will never replace walking. And walking will never replace the wheel. Both accomplish the same thing different ways. Like the old saying goes there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Now you can see where I am coming from. Thanks for chiming in Nameless.
57  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 29, 2016, 18:02:40
Plasma, there is a good reason our bodies produce very little of this chemical. Do your research on the dangers of this drug. We dont encourage the use of any substances (natural or synthetic), which safety has not been determined. I've read many account of users reporting mental and cognitive issues for months after they stopped using this drug.
Also, spiritual growth is not dependent on the ability to focus to non-physical environments.
I am well aware that it can be damaging at high doses if one is not use to it, just like running a marathon if one hasn't been practing. In a perfect world a doctor would gradually build up ones tolerance so that the body and mind have time to adjust. But until then it's up to psychonauts to be very careful. When a Doctor prescribes medication it's all about the pros outweighing the cons. Same with any other drug. And clearly some really benefit from psychedelics while others don't. At the end of the day it's up to every individual if they want to safely explore these substances or abuse them.
58  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 29, 2016, 17:43:53
This state is easily reached and is a part of what you come across as a natural. I wonder how many others here met with it at an early age?
With a thought you can shrink to nothing or envelop every point of the universe.
Kids stuff lol
Geez Szaxx your way more advanced than I originally thought.  shocked wink And thanks for clarifying that this can be a natural state.
59  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 29, 2016, 05:45:45
Most threads die on this Forum after a few posts. You for one should know that already. It has nothing to do with your introducing the "drug content".

 The video link you gave above explains that this guy experiments with different types of Psychedelics to aid in his "altered states". So your revelation that this guy was under the influence of something wasn't a shock at all.

 What kind of a reaction were you looking for?
Oh I just thought people would have had something to say after finding out exactly what he took to reach that state. Instead it got really quiet, and this is a fascinating topic for me so it didn't make sense. For me what is so shocking is that it seems to be a very clean psychedelic is that it only really increases consciousness and kills the ego without the side effects some of the other psychedelics have. And on top that it seems to cause permanent kundalini awakening. Then of course being able to go to the core of reality and all this with a substance that someone can take. It's really revolutionary. I am very interested in using this as a route to catalyze my spiritual growth at some point.
60  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 29, 2016, 04:22:42
It got quiet all of the sudden. What's wrong does taking a molecule for spiritual enlightenment not fit your world view? You's are way too politically correct. News flash the truth isn't always politically correct.

Like I said this is meat of the truth and not the milk of the truth. Once you realize the that power of heaven and enlightenment can be found in the study and use of drugs like 5-MEO-DMT we are one step closer to reaching perfection through science. Then bringing enlightenment and spirituality to the masses becomes a piece of cake.

Psychedelics are the only thing right now that could change the way we think of the spiritual. Nothing else can even come close to doing this on a massive level, on the scale needed to change peoples minds. But doing so will require a mind shift in how we perceive drugs. At the end of the day not all drugs are created equally. Hard drugs are bad and have a high chance of addiction. Classic psychedelics are fine. Dissociative psychedelics have addiction potential. Research chemicals are in a grey area which I wouldn't touch. At the end of the day though psychedelics will become mainstream with or without the spiritual community. But how long before psychedelics are accepted as a fast, radical, quick way to catalyze spiritual growth is up to you.
61  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 17:21:37
Now that we got some decent replies here I will revel what he did to get to this state. Leo took 5-MEO-DMT. It's a naturally occurring molecule that our bodies make in small amounts. He talks about this substance in his next video. You can find it on his channel. I don't want to post it here as it might be against the rules. But yeah I'm sure you's weren't expecting that.  grin
62  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 17:17:32
If there is no cognition of anything as you are implying then there is no way of retelling your experience. I know this is kinda tricky - but how can you be in a place where there is no self-awareness of any kind and then tell about it. It makes no sense.
It's called the unmanifest in Hinduism and Wu-chi in Taoism. It's the core of all reality. In this place there is no subject, no object, no experience. And the only way people can come back with this experience is through KNOWING.
63  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 03:57:44
I listened to his whole video and what I saw was that he reached "Point Consciousness", where there is "no body" at all. All that exists is you as a point of consciousness. At that point there is no beginning, no end, there just "is". It is mind blowing when you first achieve it.

 This can be reached by anyone that learns to Astral Project. The first sign you are reaching this point is when you hit the 3D darkness void, where you just "are". There is no ego, there is just pure space, but instead of seeing it with your closed eyes, you are now totally consumed by and in it. This is a very exciting and can be also a very scary time for most people. I love just immersing myself deep inside it. It's a place where you can just "be", without all the trials and tribulations of this physical realm. It's also a great pace to rid yourself of pain or anguish!   smiley
First of all thanks a lot for fully watching the video. For some reason I don't think the space your talking about is the space that he Leo is talking about. Because in the space Leo is talking about you can't even fathom. There is absolutely no thought or cognition of any kind where he was at. There is also no subject and no object. Unless Leo went to the core place of what your talking about. Thoughts?
64  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 03:12:49
My apoligizes about my message. I won't continue.
No need to be sorry dude. I wasn't angry at you or anything like that. It's common for me to just really express my opinions with not even a sliver of anger. That's just my personality.  grin  Don't worry, we're cool.  cool
65  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 02:43:33
I know this guy, he is speaking hours about everything. One year earlier, after some of his vids I got brain shrinking lol. But he is inspiring, I admit it.

There is the saying: who knows does it, who don't teaches it. If you want to buy into his philosophies, that is your choice.

These people selling themselves for buy their book. Doesn't it strange?

Everybody is a "god" deep inside the inner dimensions. Why can't people accept that and also give their power away? This is funny and sad at the same time. Most of people didn't reach their phase in their development still to go beyond and don't want to because of fear. I don't want to bomb out a pointless religious discusson again, there is enough here already.
I can assure you that currently he has nothing to sell about the thing he used to reach infinity. And he obviously doesn't care too much about sales getting into these tough topics he's been doing recently. Besides he gives a lot of his time for free videos and information on youtube. He's like the perfect balance of giving and receiving. LOL Meaning he's not greedy about it otherwise he wouldn't give out so much free informative videos. Heck he doesn't even promote what he sells in most all of his videos. Though there might be a link in the description.

Anyway the point is that he's not making any money off of the video he just posted or the thing that is used to reach infinity. Heck he even tells you exactly how to do it in the next video.
66  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 00:50:07
I tried Plasma but 12 minutes in and that was enough of that.
LOL well human words and thoughts can't even begin to describe this state so it's understandable why he would react that way. But if you can see through his reenactment then I am sure you will learn something much deeper than what words could ever convey.

This is the meat of reality and truth and not the milk.
67  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes, and lives to tell about it. on: September 27, 2016, 00:19:01
If you think Astral Projection is great I suggest you check this out. As it could be infinitely more important in helping you understand yourself in this world. Meet the guy that became infinite in 15 minutes. Also note that Leo has been doing tons of meditation, self inquiry, consciousness work for a good long while now. And he said something like all that other stuff he was doing was nothing compared to the insights he gained from this new experience on his journey to self exploration.

What Is God? - Leo Becomes Absolute Infinity (Aka God) - All Of Reality Explained

In his next video he tells you how to do it.
68  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: If you are come back as a Ghost on: September 16, 2016, 03:47:56
If for some reason you sentence to roam the world as a Ghost what will be your Plans, as for myself I plan on going around letting Ghostly Farts on everyone...
Welcome to the pulse. You know I got to say my first impression of you is that your a kid talking about farts. LOL As far as "sentence to roam the world as a Ghost" Well that would be of your own beliefs and not that of some higher power. And if some sort of higher power could do that, you would have to be predisposed belief wise to such a thing. Some being can't just sentence you to anything unless it's in line with your own beliefs at least to a degree. Also I don't think it's very easy for ghosts to interact with this world as you might think, if it was possible then we should be having much more ghostly encounters.

You should learn about filters and layers in astral projection. So when your in the astral there are your own filters and layers which create reality. Filters block your perception with your own beliefs, thoughts, and emotions. And then layers add to your experience in the astral from your own beliefs, thoughts, and emotions.
69  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Why Don't Projectors Make Use of... on: September 09, 2016, 02:11:14
I've used these types of techniques for astral projection. And I am sure others here have done the same. There is no one size fits all when it comes to astral projection though.
70  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Masculine Energy on: September 07, 2016, 17:54:45
If it's possible to have a perfect society with masculine males and feminine females living in harmony then masculinity isn't our problem. The problem is likely genetic. Masculinity is the scapegoat here because it's an easier thing point the finger to than a genetic problem, so blaming males and masculinity won't fix the problem. This is a homo-sapiens problem not a masculine/male problem.
71  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Masculine Energy on: September 07, 2016, 06:30:02
Even back around 1985 we were being brainwashed with this idea of men causing war, etc.
I mentioned to one female friend how if God snapped his fingers and made all men in the world disappear we would theoretically be in a world of peace, love and harmony.

She replied with a chuckle... "within 6 months half the women of the world would be dead and half the survivors would be wandering around blind after their eyes had been scratched out...."
Yeah see she knows. I've seen how women can be just as if not more territorial than men in their own way. Women have been just suppressed from expressing it by men that wanted femininity rather than their base instincts from their women. Men know how to deal with the stress of war more than women. That is why the military is dominated by men. And no it's not cultural because before there was a US military there was tribes where it was the men that had to fight.  So yes men ground women from their emotions and help them to think more logically. And so if no men where here then I could see chaos coming soon afterward. To give credit to women they teach us how to become like kids again and be more free and open minded. At least that is the way it should be.
72  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Masculine Energy on: September 07, 2016, 05:38:28
What I believe Xanth was trying to say, is that in this current epoch of society with all the wars around the world, there is clearly a masculine force behind them all, man's who's violence rises too high due to a lack of certain felinity/sensibility. These are the men that shape the intellectual, political, economical, social rules of the world.
In the same way you have women who lack even a bit of hard logic, and are way to feminine and their intelligence ends up being as proportional as their beauty which is in everything they focus on. These are the women that shape the creative, intuitive, subconscious part of the world with magazines, TV, showbussines. They tell both woman and man how to look and what to buy and even what should you spend your time in.
I think I agree for the most part if I followed you correctly. Except the part above I don't think I agree with. At least right now the modern feminists are controlling and framing the debate in feminism. They are your typical fat, ugly, lesbians that are getting revenge against men. Hahaha OK that was totally a stereotype I think but there is some truth in it. There is no doubt about it that modern feminist theory as taught in College gender studies is about man hating. They come up with any and every reason to hate on men. They bash men for spreading their legs when they sit down, they bash men for gazing at women, they bash men for going for the kiss at a wrong time, and all the wars the list go on and on and on. And that was a moderate view of modern feminism. Now when I say feminist here i am not talking about average feminist for the most part. I am mostly talking about the core of the modern feminist movement which has demonized men, and used junk science to promote their garbage. And the public is so dumb that are falling head over heels to try to appease these feminists because of the junk science they are using.

Also I don't think that our wars are directly a result of male masculinity, but rather something more fundamental than masculinity. There is no doubt about it homo-sapiens are territorial and this causes wars. It's also why we are the only animal to have overcome and risen above other animals. It's like a double edged sword. And interestingly not all animals are territorial. Bonobo monkeys aren't like that, and they have sex all the time. IMO our genetics are to blame for the wars. And as we can see in modern feminism if you let women take control, they are very territorial too in their own way with the brain washing of western society.

And I didn't even get into how feminists have dominated in the courts to get women the best of both worlds in divorces, along with everything else. The pendulum has already swung too far to the other side in western society, it's time to wake up.
73  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Masculine Energy on: September 06, 2016, 05:34:50
I don't "debate" with people who aren't willing to listen.
It's a waste of my time... ultimately the other persons' as well.

Have a good one bud.  Smiley
I have changed my mind more in the last 5 years than most people would ever change in their whole lives. From political views, to spiritual views, to just life in general. I have changed and adopted to something I think is in line with reality the most. I have ran across people are stuck in their ways, and I am not like them. Maybe we can finish this topic another time. Take it easy and enjoy the rest of your Monday.
74  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Masculine Energy on: September 06, 2016, 02:40:30
One last point if this is my last post. A lot of what I have learned and believe about men and women has actually come from a women named Kezia Noble. She is the world's leading dating coach for men.
75  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Masculine Energy on: September 06, 2016, 02:36:18
This is the last I'll say here:

Plasma, your perspective, while was seemingly valid over the last several hundred years... isn't anymore.
Not only that, but this is also part and parcel of becoming a spiritual being.  Love and Acceptance.

What you preach isn't that.  Your homework is to figure out why.

You act as if I don't believe in equality between the men and women by sending me that link. You obviously don't know what I really believe. I have nothing against women having equal pay, equal rights. But women don't go for guys that act like women. In order to really get down to the bottom of this we need to dissect exactly what we are debating here. But you don't want to do that so.

As far as me not preaching love and acceptance. LOL Well if it was all up to you we would be living in the stone age with scientists not being able to label anything. There can be love in debate, and in labeling because these things help us know our selves and the world around us to a high level. Just reading about something doesn't give you the same level and depth as debating it.

I could call you a coward for not finishing this debate and getting down to it. But I won't, since I realize that this is all out of love. Just because I have a fiery sense of logic and I like to debate doesn't mean I don't love and have acceptance. It's almost condescending for you to say that I don't preach love and acceptance. What makes you think that just because I am debating this that I don't have love? Your the one making this very personal. Before it was just about who had the best points about masculinity and your turning this into an even more toxic subject than political rants by saying that I don't preach love and acceptance. *sigh* How do you know me enough to even say that about me? I am not who you think I am, whatever stereotype you got in your head get it out. That's your homework. And even you have talked about everyone own truths and beliefs. Well one of my strong beliefs is that I can debate and still hold respect for people I debate with afterward. And even gain more respect for them if they can debate me well. Perhaps debating just isn't your thing Xanth.

This kind of reminds me how older people think that cursing is always bad because they view it as being demeaning all the time. But how the newer generation sees it in moderation to be very good at expressing a very valid truth for them. It expresses it in a way that nothing else will. It gives just enough spice to a conversation in moderation that it makes the conversation much more tastier. But if used around older conservative type or Christians it tastes or sounds nasty to them. So it's all about your own truth and perspective. Debating is fun for me and I don't do it out of hate or indifference. If I mischaracterized anything you have said please tell me.

Those are my thoughts.
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