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776  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Question regarding Birth Choice and Birth Defects on: October 14, 2010, 20:55:44
I think it's all the reasons you guys have described.

Michael Newton, using regressive hypnotherapy, has studied hundreds of people and their descriptions of soul and soulgroup interactivity. He's published 2 books,"Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls", both of which I thought were pretty good.

What he basically concludes is that we are all here to learn and develop through various levels of physical/mental/emotional/spiritual experience; we commit to these experiences voluntarily, with advice and encouragement from our teachers/guides/higher aspects; some of these experiences are individual lessons, others are for the soulgroup we are each a part of; each soulgroup is composed of souls that are approximately at the same level and speed of development and spend lifetime after lifetime returning to Earth, like actors in a play, to perform in various roles and relationships for one another, supporting, contrasting or,  even conflicting if needed. I may be his grandfather in this life, and his son in the next. Next time I may be her son who dies of fever at  3 years of age to give her the experience of losing a child and learning to cope with it...in the meantime I may be releasing some "karmic debt" by agreeing to such a short life given to help educate another soul. And so on, apparently.

I dunno, it does make me look around at my family members and close friends (and enemies!)...and wonder.


Best regards to all,
EV
777  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: I always go into a dark spiral on: October 06, 2010, 05:03:13
Okay, my opinion; look at it this way: You are having multiple Fo2 experiences; that's good but basically you're wandering around in your own subconscious dreamstate. Great fun, and some key metaphorical/symbolic lessons... i'm thinking of #18 and #19 that you described...

When you're ready to try something new when in one of these episodes...stop! Slow down just a bit. Increase your awareness by looking at your hands, or grab hold of some object, or try spinning. Then look for a portal...a doorway, a window, mirror or picture and as you pass through it express your intent to go somewhere in the astral or visit someone, or learn some particular lesson...and then let it take you where it will.

Sounds like you're getting out there; now go with some serious intent.
778  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: I always go into a dark spiral on: October 05, 2010, 05:09:00
I think you're further than you may have given yourself credit for... sounds like you may actually be at the 3D Void, which is apparently the best "jumping off point" to go wherever you may want to go.

I agree with Xanth in that many of your "lucid dreams" have in fact been OBEs. The difference is in degree and ...in intent.

I've suffered from the same thing... what to do next? Step by small step, you have to have a clear intention of your next action. It has stalled me out many times, leaving me wondering 'what happened?'

There could be still a subconscious component such as fear or 'refusal to believe' that you're facing, but next time try something as simple as 'asking for vision' or 'asking for clarity' or 'eyes open'...understanding that you're not really opening your eyes but asking for the metaphorical/astral equivalent.


Keep on, EV
779  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: I'm not entirely sure what to make of this... on: September 25, 2010, 22:24:33
I agree with Naykid, what you are describing appears to fit within the range of "normal" sleep paralysis/transition/separation effects...and yes, they can be freaky and confusing, but the vast majority of these things are creations of your own mind and though they can't hurt you, they can scare you IF you let them.

Two things I've found that may help; you mentioned that you felt "vulnerable" during SP. You have to get over that. Eliminate that fear. Even the least little fear and worry is enough to be reflected back at you in the forms and feelings that you described. You need to try to maintain a cool, calm and detached attitude. Anything gets in your way, just radiate Love and Humor at it. You have to let go and take that chance a few times and you'll find that it works.

Also, after separation, move away from your sleeping physical body as soon as possible; get at least 10 to 15 feet away and you'll find that these "transition" effects quickly diminish and disappear. Somebody described it as a kind of energetic feedback that creates this chaos when the projected double is too close to the physical. In your post, you told of crawling over to a chair, raising yourself up and turning around to realize the "presence" had disappeared...how far away were you at that point from your physical?

Sluggish movement in the RTZ is normal early on and can happen anytime, maybe it has to do with low energy, simply just forgetting how to apply that energy or could even be a manifestation of a subconscious block.

For an interesting read, do a Wiki search on Sleep Paralysis.

Good job and good luck!


780  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: First time, got bitten by a bunny! on: September 15, 2010, 22:55:55
Hi Re,

great post and good analysis of what happened (at least imo)! Definitely an OBE in my book. You got stuck at the head AND had a rather interesting Dweller experience...I guess a 2 foot bunny is better than a 20 foot bunny!!

Early on, it appears for many of us, that even the seemingly straightforward process of separation can get bogged down and become clumsy and confused; you get stuck at the head, stuck at the waist, one foot stuck, etc. Then when you do get loose, you either clump around like a drunk, deep-sea diver or you float up and bang around the ceiling trying to get down; your vision is impaired and distorted in ways you can't yet find words to describe; you're not sure whether to walk, swim or fly...and on and on.

I agree totally with your idea of utilizing Sleep Paralysis as a launch point; it's what I end up doing when it happens in the middle of the night or early morning. You do have to beware of all the possible hypnogogic "noise" that you may encounter and not be distracted by it, bunnies notwithstanding!
Using SP dovetails somewhat with a technique called WBTB (Wake, Back To Bed)...that's more a timing tech rather than a separation tech but has worked well for me.  Also, don't get too caught up with making one tech work, just be aquainted with many so that the right one will naturally occur when the time comes (which is what you seem to have already done very well).


Frank Kepple's ideas are excellent. Read as much as you can. Don't get his Focus levels confused with Robert Monroe's. Monroe's first two books are also excellent descriptions of Fo2 and Fo3 experiences. They are Journeys Out Of The Body and Far Journeys.

How do you get from Fo2 to Fo3?   I'm still working on that one myself and the best advice I've seen comes from Frank a few years back where he gives a technique for Phasing from 2 to 3 by letting the backdrop of your Fo2 reality slowly give way to either  the 3D Blackness or to a new Fo3 reality. He called it the "Slat Effect" and it is like standing in front of a window with a venetian blind and on the back of the closed blind is painted your Fo2 backdrop; as you slowly reverse the blind (and express your intent on where to go) the Fo2 image slides away and is replaced by the  new Fo3 image ...and you step into it if you're not already there. Do a search here on the "Slat Effect"...awesome stuff! (thanks Frank)

Great job and welcome!  EV
781  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Frank's Posts PDF! on: April 22, 2010, 03:22:28
Great work Xanth! Thanks for that.
EV
782  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: astral travels into the universe on: August 27, 2009, 04:46:45
Thanks Tayesin,

yeah the bubble theory talk has piqued my interest over the last year or so. Following Upstreams' thoughts is difficult and demanding, but ultimately intriguing! Any more info or past posts you could point our way would be most appreciated.

By way of reptilians, are you seriously meaning the David Icke variety? I mean I'm open, but even my 'conspiracy' leanings only lean so far... though I do harbor suspicions, grin


All the best, EV
783  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Trance technique on: August 27, 2009, 04:24:14
Thanks, those are good techniques; I especially like the 'reversing car sensation', I'll have to try it.

These are 'trance techniques' that, if extended in a couple ways, can be something I've recently become aware of and that is the idea of using a creative visualisation called a 'rundown'. Basically the same thing, but the 'rundown' incorporates at least two key ingredients: 1) It's active and constantly moving, 2) it's fun and engaging enough that you can continue the visualisation long enough for something to happen.

Two examples: Selski offered the 'trampoline method' and I find that very good for 'warming up and shaking loose' the energy body. I first just imagined bouncing on a big trampoline, then extended that to a gymnasium with back to back, side to side trampolines where I could bounce all around this huge room.

Another 'rundown' that I somehow found myself in was the visualisation of 'sledding' or 'tobogganing' (sp?)
down a snowy series of hills. At some point, I got turned around backwards (hence, my interest in the reversing car sensation) and continued sliding downhill, up and down over snowy hills...and pretty quickly the visualisation took on a life of its own, I wasn't creating it anymore. Moments later I was literally dumped from about five feet in the air onto a gravel road somewhere in a cold, wintery northern forest...I was literally there! I stood up to dust myself off but found that I could not straighten any further than the bent over, staring at my feet sledding position I had been in. Kidding myself for not being able to figure this out, I soon heard the sounds of a truck approaching from behind. "Great I thought, now I'm going to get run over!" I decided to fly straight up, which I did, although still doubled over and as I flew up into the cool, dark sky I shifted and found myself back in bed, from where I regained my bearings and easily shifted out again, into a new environment. That was one of my first experiences with phasing, I guess. EV
784  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: How Real-Time are Projections? on: August 25, 2009, 04:46:56
First, maybe Monroe ended up 'pinching' her etheric/energy body, which resulted in a noticeable effect on her physical body; something maybe rather different from trying to tip a pencil off a table (seemingly easier but actually not).

Second, as to why Monroe would waste time in the somewhat, comparatively boring RTZ, as opposed to traveling galaxies: He admitted upfront that he wasn't always in complete control of his adventures; this particular event was described IIRC in his first book where he did manage to attempt to delineate Locales I, II and III as some kind of map for the rest of us...but hey, it was the Sixties and the guy didn't even have a compass.
785  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: My first OBE??! on: August 25, 2009, 03:37:43
Great first OBE Timandra!
You maintained good awareness and noticed several interesting aspects which you reported well; and yes, I agree that you are keeping the right mental attitude: Open and expectant, without trying to force it. Let it come at its' own pace. Thanks, it was a great read! EV
786  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: swallow reflex? on: August 22, 2009, 06:22:54
I'll add a little to Stookies' comments,
 The swallowing reflex and itches still nag me from time to time; it seems very dependant on which side of the 'trance transition period' I am in. Before the transition they can be noticeably bothersome, and I think they may be natural or possibly a component of...what do I call it? the ego/physical side of my awareness still trying to exert some irritating influence on my control of the situation/my attempt to 'let go'. In that case, like Stookie says, swallow or scratch it and take a couple minutes more to move deeper into trance...At some point you have to choose to try ignoring these physical symptoms, at which point you'll eventually find that they subside or quit altogether. That is a definite signal that you've successfully made it into the deeper trance stage.
 That's not to say that a noticeable swallow reflex may not occur later, or an arm or leg uncomfortably positioned may not signal that it requires slight attention, but the effect and repair should not need more than a few seconds attention or distraction, your OBE/Phasing experience only being disrupted momentarily; this is what many report as one form of momentary 'dual body awareness'.
787  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: question on: August 22, 2009, 05:31:46
Yeah, there are several, but if you have some sort of crazy, dysfunctional, uncontrolled OBE what good has that accomplished, other than you had some wild trip that you couldn't explain? There are consequences to any shortcuts that we try; keep that in mind.

A successful, controlled OBE takes time to achieve and is a wonderful, significant accomplishment in any persons life. It requires preparation on many levels: Physical, emotional, mental, energetic and spiritual. And it's not like we have a dashboard with green lights to show us everything is ready to go. Some are naturals at this, most are apparently not, myself included. My advice is to continue with traditional methods; you'll appreciate the results. I'm not suggesting 20 years of Buddhistic meditation, just research this site and look for the clues in your current attempts,; it's all there. It just requires patience and perseverance. Happy travels, EV.
788  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Was I close? on: August 18, 2009, 05:27:11
It's your choice whether to pursue it from this point, or not.

You can ignore it as best you can, and the symptoms may well recede into distant memory and you never worry about it again...or, the symptoms/signals may persist, in which case you have to deal with them, either as a bothersome kind of nuisance or as an adventure to be explored.

Or you pursue them outright.

The paralysis is a normal state for dreaming, nothing to be feared; the roaring/rushing noise is normal for noticing that your 'energy body' is alive and aware. The 'reality' of the event, the 'realness' is very freaky at first and causes a FEAR response in most of us; this takes some repeated experiences and understanding of what's going on before the FEAR subsides and CURIOSITY takes over. It's like swimming in the deep end of the pool.

Do some research on this site, then decide for yourself; Yes, like anything it has its 'unknown areas of possible danger' and nobody can define them all or guarantee your ultimate safety...like the deep end of the pool, you can drown or choke or blow out your eardrums if you dive too deep; in the ocean there are sharks and jellyfish...that doesn't stop millions from swimming. Stay onshore or dive in. From my perspective, the water's fine. EV
789  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Possible Danger on: August 14, 2009, 04:39:22
Thirty-five years and no issues, no negs; nothing other than my own fears.
790  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: My ('second') lucid dream this week... on: August 14, 2009, 04:29:00
Gbob,
others may disagree and are welcome to comment, but I think you are making the transition to an AP...in each of the last two seperate posts you made. Don't discount the fact of it simply because the experience originated from a Lucid Dream. Yes, it does alter the quality and the perspective slightly, but nonetheless, I think you're finishing with a true OBE/AP; in both instances.

Notice that, this time you made it a bit further, you passed through a physical obstacle; whereas the first time you couldn't. It can be impossibly small steps early on; but progress notwithstanding.

Extending your focus and extending the experience will come naturally, with continued practice. EV
791  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: can not stay aware during hipnagogic period on: August 13, 2009, 06:29:54
gil-galad, I struggle with the same problem, and have not come up the 'perfect' answer.

My own conjecture is that we are working through difficulties in several different areas: Focus/level of intent, timing, and some kind of 'rewiring'-both on an unconscious level and at the energy body level.

Early on imo, if the timing is right, it all seems to fall into place rather easily and I think that serves to reinforce the other areas, therefore making timing not quite so important during subsequent attempts. Each successful OBE (or even a Lucid) reinforces the new mental/energetic connections which will in turn, strengthen your future attempts.

So, as I think  nickspry suggested, try varying your sleep times: Wake up after two hours, or three or five...try staying awake for 15 minutes or 30 or an hour. Then try an AP technique. Personally, it can take a few minutes to an hour...somewhere in there you'll make the connection.

Also, try something different. Prop yourself up in bed with a few pillows or move to a recliner...worked wonders for me.


Stimpy,
you'll know Focus 10/MABA when you get there...it floored me. It's like being six years old at two in the morning with your parents asleep and having the whole house to yourself...giggly awesome! I used to think F10 was pretty basic, thought that I had been there dozens of times, listening to the Monroe tapes. Then I happened into it quite by accident...boy was I wrong. My body was literally asleep and yet my mind was fully functioning and much more open to 'other things'! It's definitely there! EV
792  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: My Current Progression on: August 12, 2009, 05:06:26
Light, weird and spinning tells me that you're energy body is loosening up and that's good. All that energy around your forehead seems to indicate your brow chakra is being activated which is good for a more visual and controlled kind of projection, I'm more of a root or heart chakra type, at least early on.

I would suggest that you continue what you are doing for awhile. If you desire a change, maybe try the WBTB method and wake yourself after 3 or 4 hours sleep, and then try a meditational technique. Or try a nap in the middle of the afternoon.

Progress can be slow and confusing at times, but it sounds like you're getting there. Keep on, EV.
793  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Finally had a lucid dream! on: August 12, 2009, 04:45:31
Gbob,
What a success! You did it! You did the WakeBackToBed method(WBTB), found the right timing and launched into a Lucid Dream, which you recognised and then converted into an 'etheric' or RTZ OBE, complete with all the attendant 'reality fluctuations'; that is, in my opinion. Way to go!

The dream characters disappearing was a good indication that they indeed, were dream characters; the bright light and hurricane noise, IMO were indicative of a transition from LD to a more conscious, 'etheric' OBE. Once there, you recognised certain incongruities consistant with etheric or RTZ OBEs: the room wasn't exact, your vision somehow different, your arm strangely missing (I have no idea why), you bumped into things...and you're running around naked ( I do that all the time  grin).

Your failure to immediately walk through walls likely has more to do with limiting beliefs and maybe, by that time, you were starting to run out of focus/energy...like jub jub suggested. Even once you finally do it, it still isn't easy, or automatic or without its limitations.

Great first OBE! Work on energy raising and maintaining focus. Reflect on recognising the difference between the LD and the RTZ. Spectacular! EV
794  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Alarm Clock Method Question... on: August 08, 2009, 06:03:37
Gbob,
I don't think that one or the other is necessarily better than the other; you have to find that out for yourself, and it may vary from day to day.

The one essential component imo, is your level of intent.

This WBTB method is what works for me during the last couple years; that may change in the future. Sometimes I can roll over, almost on the edge of sleep and one of two things happen: If my intent is strong enough, I might have an OBE immediately (with or without vibrations); if my intent is not strong I may simply fall back to sleep...sometimes having a Lucid that I then take advantage of, or maybe not.

Most of the time, I'll get up and poke around or read for 15 minutes to an hour, nothing too strenuous or mentally complicated, then lay back down and give it a try. From that point it can take anywhere from a minute to an hour for a successful exit, and that's not always guaranteed, at least for me.

The energy work and chakra work are also good ideas, as KK said. Your individual formulation will no doubt vary.

Another neat trick to try is to move from your bed to a recliner or prop yourself up in bed with a few pillows. This allows you to breathe a little more freely and is a signal to your subconscious that you're doing something more than just sleeping. That can introduce an interesting variable...

Best of luck, EV
795  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I'm new, and kinda scared.. ): on: August 07, 2009, 05:10:58
DerekG,
Welcome to the "Early OoBE'rs Club"! Replete with all sorts of confusing auditory and visual phenomenae.
It's all quite REAL when you finally do it, and yet it presents twice the number of questions as it seems to immediately answer; and this takes the form of 'reality fluctuations': confusing visuals, references, noises and emotional discordance to deal with.

Don't sweat it, ask for 'clarity' now and then, and stay emotionally stable and calm...and have fun! EV
796  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: I'm one tip away from getting out! on: August 07, 2009, 04:53:48
I think you're very close! Just accept each experience as it shows itself, even if one step at a time.

Imo, the gyrations you feel are indicators of your energy body loosening itself and limbering up and that's great progress, no matter which direction it takes; falling, rising, spinning, it's all good.

You may or may not get significant vibrations; like Steel Hawk says, you'll definitely know them if you get them in their stronger, full body sense. If not, don't worry about it. Like Sisyphus and SH said, just go with the flow of what you have available at the time. Push it, but not too much...it may have to play out at its own speed...frustration and impatience become your worst enemy. Forget the extraneous sounds and noise, they're just signposts that you're making good headway.

It can take several attempts at this stage, with what feels like little or no advancement; the truth is, you are making the most progress right now!

Keep pushing! EV
797  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Struggling getting out on: August 04, 2009, 04:43:44
It's tricky stuff and we are all somewhat different as to what our personal triggers are; I still get stuck and frustrated now and then. Sometimes my best move is just to relax and give up...then when I don't expect anything, it just happens naturally.Go figure...

You also might try an affirmation, beforehand. Something positive like, "I project easily and consciously." or "I will go out of body tonight" or "I give myself permission to project". Try repeating the affirmation when the vibrations hit or the timing seems right, but don't push it too much; if it's not happening then just let go and trust to your subconscious.

EV


798  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Was this an OBE? on: August 04, 2009, 04:23:38
I think very definitely, that was an OBE. It's just that early on, they don't happen exactly as planned; the least little thing can seem to trip you up or throw you off course. Don't worry too much about it. Little questions like this will pop up when you least expect it.

I had the same thing happen. My first several OBE's I didn't even consider my physical body, so I didn't try looking for it. Finally, during one outing, I had the distinct thought to look for my physical body, and when I looked...it wasn't there! Just like you reported. I could clearly see my bed and the impression in the bed covers and the pillow, like a body 'should' be there, but it was either invisible or had just disappeared a moment before. Very confusing!

My only rationale is that subconsciously, I was still reluctant to admit to the separation of astral from physical, regardless of my then current intellectual stance.

A month or so later, during my next OBE, I did see my body but was noticeably disinterested in it and therefore avoided any contact. Weeks later during another OBE, I was more comfortable within a close proximity to my body, 'asking' for clarity and 'drawing' energy, and I was able to study my body and noticed that as I moved closer to my body, it would respond with heavier breathing and slight movements, to the point that I was worried that I was disturbing it too much, almost playing with it from my new perspective; I even started getting some 'dual awareness' flashes, so I decided to back off.

Hope that helps a little, EV
799  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: For people scared of losing their personalities on: July 31, 2009, 04:54:53
Great conversation, and I tend to agree with most of CFT's and Stookie's conjectures.

I'd like to add these thoughts: I think much of our present ego/personality does decay or at least diminish significantly when we transition and eventually return to/move closer to our Soul/Source. That doesn't negate the experiences we had, just the mental-emotional baggage that we picked up along the way; and to some degree, our present individuation.

I think it was a book by willy Sutphen that I first came upon the idea of several variations of Soul theory: Are we each individual souls? Are we each just one of many souls under the 'umbrella' of a Group Soul? Is each one of those souls an independent soul or just variations of Me, experiencing different lives/timelines? Or are we somehow related through the Group Soul? Is that Group Soul independent or simply one of many under the guidance of an OverSoul...and so on until finally the Source or the One?

So yes, somewhere along the way I start to have a little trepidation of just how much my present ego/identity survives along the way; on the other hand, I wouldn't mind a little Unity and Wholeness for a change.
My current OBE awareness appears to preclude any fear of total identity loss, but hey, that could be mistaken. Ultimately, there's not much I can do about it. Maybe.

The Buddhist philosophy seems to push towards purifying/cleansing the mind of egoistic desires and wants to the point of creating a Body of Light that one can step into instantly at the moment of death and without suffering a loss of consciousness and by doing so transcend into a higher state of being and transcending the Wheel of Karma/Rebirth. Probably easier said than done.

But just maybe, that's how another soul or soul extension is born or differentiated from the Soul Group? Maybe that's how we ultimately individuate?

And finally, like CFT pondered, what happens at the end? Do we all ultimately assimilate back to the One Source/God; the physical universe contracting down upon itself into an impossibly dense Singularity, only to explode again in another Big Bang? Or forever expanding outward?

800  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Question on hitting the vibrating state more consistently. on: July 22, 2009, 04:01:24
I agree with what Lighten, TL and Xanth have said.

Individuals vary; you'll have to discover your own specific triggers and timing, but what they have shared are good guidelines.

TL makes a good point in suggesting that the more attempts you make, although unsuccessful at the time, the attempts also serve to program your sub?conscious as to your intent to OBE, so that when the proper time does arrive, you'll be better prepared/programmed to respond to the opportunity. Personally, I have found this a very important component.

Also, I find it's not so important what time you go to sleep as the amount of time you sleep. You need to make an OBE attempt when both your body and mind are rested, but not completely rested; especially the body. Like Xanth said, trying to project before a normal night's sleep is very difficult except maybe for very experienced projectors. Your physical body just drags you down into sleep like an anchor and your consciousness along with it.

So the idea is to sleep maybe 2/3 or 3/4 of your normal sleep cycle and then make an attempt. That way your body is rested but not so completely that you can't return to sleep if you wanted to; and your mind is rested sufficiently that it can still control and direct your attempt. You can try staying awake for 15 minutes to an hour and then making an attempt, or you can immediately roll over and back to the edge of Slumberland, I've had success with each. It can take ten seconds or an hour to get results...just try different timings.

HTH, EV








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