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1  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 22, 2021, 16:57:34
Put in the word "focus" and my entire post made more sense. Consciousness is always present. It's where "you" are putting your focus that counts. When a person lies down to fall asleep, they expect as a "give me" that the next thing they will remember is waking up again. But, it doesn't have to be that way. They can shift their "focus" onto a whole new thing. If they do, they remain "consciously" aware of the new reality they are experiencing. This is evident in "Phasing".

Yes, true it does make more sense. Thank you.

 I suppose now my questions is what are you focusing? If consciousness is always present then what is doing the focusing? Is it not your mind? Correct me if i'm wrong but it sounds like you are saying consciousness is one thing and the focus you apply is a subset of that. Creating a veiling or unveiling of that consciousness if you like. After all, isn't applying focus to something an activity whereas consciousness is just 'being'? Are you not aware right now? You don't have to focus in order to be aware. It is the natural 'state'. You have to make an effort to veil it. And we veil it in society by doing things. We shift our focus onto objects all the time defocusing what is ever present.

I suppose, like in all of my posts, i'm just trying to point to awareness only being veiled by its contents not altered by it. And I think a lot of things being mentioned here including the word 'focus' are in fact part of the contents and don't directly apply to awareness itself (from the perspective of the character).

2  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 22, 2021, 16:11:13
Well, here are the synonyms of the word awareness in the English language. I think we are all describing awareness from our own perspectives.


Synonyms & Antonyms of awareness a state of being aware
while strolling in the big city, maintain an awareness of what's going on around you

Synonyms for awareness
advertence, advertency, attention, cognizance, consciousness, ear, eye, heed, knowledge, mindfulness, note, notice, observance, observation

Words Related to awareness
hyperawareness, hyperconsciousness
advisement, care, concern, consideration, regard, watch
apprehension, discernment, grasp, mind, perception, recognition, thought, understanding

Well true, this may come down to personal definitions. But I would say as a caveat to the definitions laid out here that modern definitions of awareness are based on the recognized science of the time and the science of now is the matter model of consciousness so it will define awareness/consciousness in relation to objective content because it says that consciousness is derived from matter and entirely dependent upon it.

World -> Body -> Mind -> Spark of consciousness

rather than:

Consciousness -> Everything else

As I don't subscribe to this model (and my assumption is a lot of people of this forum dont either given their non-physical exploits) I personally don't value modern definitions too highly...but none the less I see what you're saying
3  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 22, 2021, 14:55:36
Lets just say that we as physical characters during sleep are not always aware that we are aware, until we shift our focus into what we want to observe. Physical characters have imposed limitations of perception on purpose in order to perceive linear events for learning. But did you know that you exist as we speak into multiple realities simultaneously. Are you aware of what the "you" in those other realities are doing right now. No you are not, and this is the "opt out" thing Lumaza is talking about.


Good stuff. I do disagree though.

I don't think it is helpful to say 'did you know that you exist as we speak into multiple realities simultaneously' because the answer is no, i have no awareness of it. Isn't direct experience the best benchmark for reality? That is not within my awareness and so there is no evidence to suggest it exists. No one can say anything exists outside of awareness. For me to say that would require awareness of it.

If there is a chair but you have never had or never will have awareness of it then does it have any reality?

All the things i'm saying are not magical or mystical. I am saying that in my direct experience I have not experienced the absence of awareness. It is always present and the only thing that changes is the content. And the fact that we have things like time and matter and an 'I' at the centre of this entity are just a misperception. There is a reality to them from the perspective of this character but not from the perspective of awareness.



During regular dreams, we act as if whatever scenarios is playing is our true reality. We are not aware that ours bodies are sleeping right now and these scenarios we are being placed into are somewhat off. So, in these instances our physicals character does not have the awareness that we are dreaming. But the dream character however has it own awareness. So, you see, each point of consciousness has awareness but at a different, limited, only to itself focus. When the focus changes, so is the awareness shifting. When we do techniques to keep our awareness during dreams, then the moment we realize we are dreaming, we become lucid and from that point on, our dream character becomes aware that its physical body is sleeping, has the memories of its physical life and can start navigating the astral experiences. This is just the nature of physical characters. So, we are not always aware that we are aware. And that may sound contradiction, but this is the nature and complexity of the multiverse.

Well it seems we agree a limitation is occurring but just disagree on the source of this limitation.

I would agree that for example you can be walking in the forest with a friend in deep conversation and your attention is so focused on the conversation that you barely notice the forest. But this is not a limitation of awareness. It is a limitation of perception. In this case perception is veiling awareness but not changing it. And the same applies to your example of going from dreaming to lucid dreaming. The only thing that changes is the content.

If you were to remove thoughts, sensations, and perceptions from your experience you would just be left with awareness. Raw unfiltered awareness. So what would cause awareness to change in some way? How would you change your state of awareness? And what would that change look like? Try now to change your awareness without the use of thoughts, sensations, or perceptions.

Because for me change only occurs on the level of thought, sensation, and perception. And like I said in my previous response to you, thoughts, sensations, and perceptions occur within awareness and are made of it and therefore are entirely dependent upon it. I refer you to the movie screen analogy.

4  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 22, 2021, 14:01:14
floriferous, could you describe in your opinion in the simplest way, what is the difference between a regular dream and a lucid dream. And also describe how do we become lucid. And when I say "we", I mean the way we perceive ourselves at this time in the physical world.

That's a good question.

I know you want me to say from unconscious awareness to conscious awareness but for me awareness is not what changes. Rather it is thoughts, sensations, and perception that change. And they are of the mind. It is not a change in the state of awareness that changes between dreaming and lucid dreaming but a change in the state of mind. And I would describe the process as a clarity occurring in these mental faculties. How we become lucid is not that clear cut. But I would say it relies on mental faculties. Like the technique of telling yourself when I see my hands in my dream I will become lucid. This involves perception and thought- mental processes. That is how we as we perceive ourselves as a body/mind become lucid in dreams.

That is my simple answer.

If your explore your experience now of dreaming, lucid dreaming, and the waking state you can not dispute that awareness is present in each of these states of mind. However, thoughts, sensations, and perception in these three states is intermittent and wavering. So if awareness is consistent and the mental faculties are not then why would we come to the assumption that it is awareness that is intermittent, wavering or changing between these states?

You can have awareness without thought. You can have awareness without sensations. You can have awareness without perception. But you can not have thoughts, sensations, or perceptions without awareness.

It is the primacy of all things. Thoughts, sensations, and perceptions appear within awareness not appear to it. A quick check of your own experience validates this. If we suggest that awareness changes between dreaming and lucid dreaming then what is implied by that is that the content of awareness (in this case the body/mind) is changing the very thing it is made out of.

And bringing it back to my first post - for me it's a misperception at the heart of this.
5  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 21, 2021, 23:34:08
How to describe awareness. I am sure you realize how big that question really is.

You open your eyes see the sky you are aware. You don't open your eyes, you hear nothing and yet you immediately know if someone enters your 'space'.

Awareness does not fully happen in our mind. Our entire being has awareness, physical, spiritual, mental.

So conscious just means physically awake and aware. We can also be awake with little awareness. We usually just think of that as not paying attention.

Okay thanks for the clarification. So when you say sometimes you can be awake with little awareness are you saying awareness is reduced and therefore altered by the body and mind or are you saying that the physical body impedes your perception of awareness through this vessel but does not directly alter it?

Also you say awareness doesn't fully happen in the mind. Do you think the mind arose before awareness?
6  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 21, 2021, 22:51:51
Straight to the question.

In my mind yes we lose conscious awareness ""of our physical"" self. Which only allows our other quieter non-physical awareness to kick in and move around freely. It's there all the time, it just fades into the background as we go about our day.

The only reason we don't always wake up with full on remembrance is quite literally that our body needs that down time. The moment it comes back online that other quieter non physical awareness simply recedes and must sometimes be teased back into remembrance.


Interesting. Maybe this accounts for my confusion with Lumazas post. Please define for me in your view the difference between awareness and conscious awareness
7  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 21, 2021, 22:22:33
I think there's a lot of agreement on this forum so I want to stir the pot a little for the sake of engagement. No offense implied - just some healthy discussion before another tumbleweed passes through this withering forum...

Okay, Casey, now I see that in what you're saying we are basically talking about the same thing. I think perhaps semantics are getting in the way. I think we agree on the concepts but not the wording itself- because if you're agreeing it's really a loss of the 'game' or 'content' then I'm confused as to why you also refer to it as a loss of awareness when we are saying awareness is ever present. You seem to be happily interchanging the content of awareness with awareness itself. Seems like a confusing way of describing it to me to say the word awareness but actually mean something else (the 'game'). Am I overlooking something here?

This inturn brings up Lumazas post...

I think we "opt" to lose conscious awareness during our nocturnal shifts. But consciousness itself is always "present"

Your statement implies awareness is divided. Who is the 'we' awareness that is different from the ever-present awareness? On the surface these two sentences contradict one another. How can you lose conscious awareness and be ever-present at the same time? To lose awareness you have to be aware of the loss of awareness and so therefore it isn't a loss of awareness.

Are you are saying we lose the content of awareness but not awareness itself? It doesn't read that way but perhaps you can clarify?

To say we opt in to losing awareness implies the content of awareness (the body/mind in this case) can affect that which it is made of - awareness itself. To borrow from the classic non dual analogy - that would be like the movie screen being altered by the movie that plays on it. But in reality the movie comes and goes yet the screen remains always the same. Uncolored and unaltered by that which temporarily appears within it.

At the end of your post you talk in a similar way about experiencing a shift in awareness. If awareness is ever present then what is shifting? And shifting from what to what? Do you mean 'shift in awareness' or a 'shift in the content of awareness'? Because they are very different things.

As you are talking about OBEs I'm assuming that what you are referring to as shifting is your perception. Perceptions relate to objective content not awareness. Awareness is the subject not the object.



There is always what is,
and our individual experience of what is....
this is what provides the "torque" ( the spin ) that allows us to see, know, understand and even misunderstand
without the two and the differential this supplies we are nowhere. each has to be acknowledged to get anywhere

Casey

This is an interesting point and I agree that in the difference we can observe awareness more clearly. I would be interested to hear more from you on this.
8  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 20, 2021, 14:28:52
I suppose so though I do see differences. You both talk about losing or changes to awareness from the physical perspective but I tend to think we never do and it's a misperception. Correct me if I'm wrong but I read into your first comment that pure awareness is different than what we are at this moment. Implying two not one. Is this a fair interpretation of your perspective?

Can you clarify what you mean with the line"....the Earth life game loses its awareness of this game and reintegrates into others it is moving through"?

How are we losing awareness in your view and what do you mean by reintegrates into others it is moving through?
9  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 20, 2021, 01:19:46
Interesting perspectives.

I think that awareness is the one ever present constant and it is the temporary ever changing objective content around us that is responsible for misperceptions of awareness.

Is there really an absence of awareness with deep sleep or is it jut the absence of objective content? We say things like I went to bed, slept for 8 hours and then woke up. For us to say that something has to be aware of this apparent absence of awareness. And if there is awareness of this absence then it wasn't absent. It was aware. If our body and mind turn off when we sleep then what is it that is aware of our alarm clock ringing in the morning to awaken the body and mind? Awareness is aware.

I think the apparent sense of timelessness associated with deep sleep makes us think we lose awareness. There is no content and it passes instantaneously. Time comes back online when we start dreaming or wake up. And what is time anyway? Just a concept of the mind. It has no reality to it. No one has ever experienced the past or the future. We only experience the now and the past and future are only referenced by thought. It is only a thought that says time exists but no one has ever experienced the past or future. So it makes sense in deep sleep where thought is absent that time disappears. And with the absence of time (just another form of objective content) it passes instantly giving the impression of an absence of awareness.

If you search your experience awareness is the only constant. Has anyone experienced the beginning of their awareness? Or the complete end? If not then why would we assume it is limited?

We say things like I was in this state of awareness of that state but I think really it is the mind creating this limitation. Awareness remains intact and unaffected by experience.
10  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Do you think we lose consciousness/awareness during sleep? on: March 19, 2021, 21:41:13
A question out there for those interested. I have my own thoughts but wanted to see what others think on the matter.
11  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Usage of Wave 1 & Frank's method - revisit on: January 31, 2021, 23:11:19
The purpose of resonant tuning is multi faceted.  Most reasons we know about already - raise your energy (for creating REBAL) and vibration, relaxation, and eases the mind.

One thing that isn't really touched on that i found Skip Atwater mentioned in a report on the effects of hemi sync years ago was that it acts in someway to make you more susceptible to binaural beats. I can't quite recall how it does this. Something in a resetting of the brain by doing it or something along those lines. That is why when you do a residential program at TMI the first exercise, regardless of how advanced the course youre on is, is always an extended resonant tuning session. Its setting you so you respond better for the course ahead.
12  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Thought control question? on: January 11, 2021, 12:45:46

On a side note, I find that people that promote this idea of just meditate and ignore thoughts like there is some type of inherent distrust of thoughts in general. But in my experience for those that really contemplate thoughts can actually be a path toward ending suffering and dare I say enlightenment.

The theory goes like this, if everybody just meditated all the time and ignored their thoughts and did what the Buddha did it would take us much longer to finally figure out science and then figure out the technology needed to end suffering and travel the Galaxies.

Not only that I believe those that figure things out here and make exploits to help end suffering here they are rewarded in that Afterlife with a better reincarnation next time. I am trying to gather evidence to support that theory for my book. Because otherwise there's no incentive to actually do good by actually ending suffering and that is a very sad thought and state of affairs.


It's not you, the body and mind, that gets enlightened. It's the self seeing itself on its own level through the individual point. That's why it is recommended that you allow your thoughts to 'be' because giving attention to thought is giving attention to the objective content of experience (meditation is consciousness without content). There's nothing wrong with thought but you won't find lasting happiness there. And you won't find enlightenment in thought, either. Everything you 'do' is a movement away from enlightenment.

The Buddha already figured out the end of suffering. Stop resisting life. As soon as you unite with a situation you end your suffering. There is so much attention put on manifesting this and that in our lives - this reaching outside of ourselves to make our lives better (this resisting) - when I get this object I will be happy. When I have OBEs I will be happy. That's all fine but why not start by addressing the inside first. If I accept this unpleasant situation I find myself in then it is no longer suffering for me. And by accept I don't mean by happy in it. I mean just accept it for what it is. Allow life to be exactly as it is.

You're talking about finding the end of suffering in new technology. Hasn't thousands of years of history taught us that happiness is not found in objective content. If you do find it then it's only temporary until you search for the next object. When you're driving your car look around you. Where is everyone going? They are literally driving somewhere to try and find happiness in objective content (a person, place, situation or object). What are they doing tomorrow morning? And the next day? And the day after that? The same thing. The end of suffering is not going to be found in a new technology/an object.

13  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Why do you want OBEs? on: August 29, 2020, 19:31:38
.
If growth = happiness then perhaps yes.. it is inherent in all life to grow.


I personally don't think growth equals happiness. I think you could ask yourself is there anything behind growth that is something I desire more? If growth made you unhappy would you still pursue growth? If having OBEs made you unhappy would you still seek them out?

I'm back and forth on the idea of humans need for growth and evolution. Xanth also eluded to it in this thread. I have always gone along with the idea but I feel partly because it feels like its considered a spiritual constant. The idea of..."Yes of course we are here to grow and evolve. Everyone says it." But what if that's not true? What if its something that is so often repeated we have taken it as fact. I'm going to play devils advocate and exchange this spiritual constant for another - The idea of we are all One. Feels like it something spiritual people say so we just accept it as truth.

If hypothetically we do accept it then we are whole and already complete. There is nothing to grow or evolve into. So this plays back into advaita vedanta. If we already whole then there is nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to think. Just be. I suppose this then raises the question well then why are we here if it's not to grow? It could be a number of things. It could be nothing.

I dont doubt you have lots of profound experiences. They make for an exciting read. But I too have had many over the years. It's just I'm am starting to question mine.

.
No-one who reaches a state of expanded awareness ever just throws it away.


I personally disagree. Myself aside for a moment, if you look to somelike Papaji, one of Ramana's disciples, he was having unbelievable expanded awareness experiences communing with Krishna prior to Ramana showing him the path of advaita vedanta. He gave it up and ultimately followed the path of self-realization.

I suppose ultimately none of this matters particularly. Everyone is just following the path that resonates with them. I don't think anyone's right or wrong.
14  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Why do you want OBEs? on: August 27, 2020, 18:31:20
I've also come to something of an impasse in my spiritual direction.

I personally think the answer to my original question is ultimately the same for everyone. At the core we want to be happy. Infact every action we take in life is towards a goal of happiness. What we spend our whole lives searching for. When are we going to realize we can't find it in anything objective? If we could then why are we still searching for it? We are not very good this.

I consider myself to be a very even keel person who is generally happy but tuning into myself more i realized there is a subtle undercurrent of unhappiness constantly present within me (maybe for you too?)Whether its anxiety over money, family or whatever. Its there. And once one issue is resolved a new one replaces it.

Seeking happiness in the external never lasts. Its the nature of duality. We buy a new TV. Its exciting to begin with then it becomes normal again so we look for happiness in the next thing and so on and so on.

But i also found this true of OBEs. The happiness wears off. But i thought OBEs were internal experiences not external.

But what if they're not? The mind/ego is a complex thing. Most of all the ego wants to survive and if your happiness is the cost of its survival then so be it. Like the stress you feel when your job is in jeopardy. Ego thinks 'where will the money now come from for the house and the food to keep me safe? I'm going to make this body feel stressed so that it acts on this now. I must survive'. Thats why if you want to do a tightrope walk and your legs go to jelly at the last moment. The ego makes it happen to protect itself. Its not actually actually interested in you. Just self preservation.

I pondered how much we think we are in control of our bodies and minds. We think we have control but ultimately its not that much. You don't control anything to do with how your body is maintained. Creation of new cells, antibodies,  regulating your hypothalamus. Anything. Your body does it all for you. If your body handed you the reins for the day you wouldn't know what to do. It does it all for you. We also think we think all our thoughts yet we have little ability to control them when we try. It feels more like we only add additional thoughts to the ones that automatically arise. We don't control the flow of emotions. They dictate to us.The one thing that makes us think we are in control is our motor functions. Thats about it. And if we believe karma creates our destiny then that is out of our hands too.

So if the mind/ego is not really me and neither is the body then who am I? Let me get out of its way and let it do its thing automatically so that I can see who I really am beyond it all.

So this got me looking closer into the ideas of self realization and the notion that the real self resides not just beyond the body but also beyond the mind. The mind is not to be trusted but we happily go into an OBE with it in control. But if the mind doesn't have my interests and happiness first and foremost then why would I trust it during an OBE? Is it feeding me lies to in some way protect itself? Unclear but I certainly don't trust something that willfully makes me unhappy for its own gain. You wouldnt respect those qualities in another human so why do we with ego?

While things like medititaion. Lucid dreams, and OBEs are about experiencing levels of consciousness, self realization is about becoming Consciousness. The difference between having an experience which is fleeting, and just being the that I am of consciousness all the time. A baseline of happiness outside the scope of ego (or at least it moves to the background)

So I got reading on people like Ramana Maharshi and Robert Adams and i feel far more resonant that I ever did with anything before it spiritually speaking.

But of course reading and intellectualizing on it is still just the mind. Thats not going to help get me there. The mind is not going to help get you there becasue the goal is disidentification of ego and it doesn't want that.

So that is where I am at now. On the path of enlightenment. Who i am in this sentence is yet to become clear. But with every day passing it feels less and less like this body and mind.

Feel free to contradict. Your ego is probably dying to. Mine is too.

Excuse my spewing.





15  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Why do you want OBEs? on: July 09, 2020, 20:06:22
I'm interested to know what is at the core of why you want to have OBEs/Astral Projections.

I am keen to hear what is the reason for people. Let me know your thoughts.
16  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Hey on: July 06, 2020, 23:04:42
Hi,

I haven't been on in a while. Life and all that. Hope people are having lots of good spiritual experiences.

Really just came on to do some shameless advertising (but as an admin - what the hell. I guess i'm afforded certain liberties)...

I have been making a guided journey meditation progressive web app in my spare time. Takes you on 3d sound journeys to explore your consciousness. Might appeal to some people. If it interests you then take a peak...

(It's a mobile phone only situation)

www.lemonskies.app
17  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: First steps in phasing with custom hemisync assistance on: October 23, 2019, 04:27:49
I think EV sums up the approach to focus levels nicely.

There is always that nagging feeling of am I there yet? which you have to let go of. Bob Monroe experiences all occured from the equivalent of a focus 10 state only. The irony with Bob was hemi sync never really worked for him. He likend it to organising a party at your house but only being able to watch it from afar. Everyone else having a good time but you.

In regard to binaural beats I will say that the carrier signal is far more important than we think Wink
18  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I am looking for seasoned explorers : recreating Monroe type explorations on: October 01, 2019, 06:17:51
Last time I was at TMI they were discussing reopening the Explorer sessions to people. If your close to Virginia it might be worth reaching out to see if you can get involved somehow.
19  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Focus 23 Retrieval of a suicide on: September 23, 2019, 03:27:32
You'll probably find still around the bruce moen forum if you want to reach out to her. Dont think she frequents this joint anymore.
20  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: The Fate of Frank Kepple on: June 03, 2019, 00:36:51
I don't want to seem like I'm the person in the know. I'm really not as I wasn't around the forums then. Selski knew Frank probably better than any of the current admins.
21  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: The Fate of Frank Kepple on: June 01, 2019, 21:57:43
I wonder why Pulse users were not told before here because over the years many (normal, public) AP threads contained a lot of posted questions and speculations about this - even from moderators themselves who seemed not to know this but should have had access at the old threads in the admin area. Of course it is older and no one maybe searched for it correctly? This admin thread must then have been from 2005 or even earlier? Just wondering.

Thanks anyway for informing us now.

Probably a combination of factors. At the time the admins didnt say anything out of respect I assume. Then over time with admin turnover and the thread getting buried under all the others it got forgotten about.

I only stumbled upon it when I was searching via Frank comments and noticed more comments than when I had done so before (this was because I had since become an admin and more of his comments were open to me.(. No way would I have found it otherwise and so why would any other admins?
22  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: The Fate of Frank Kepple on: May 31, 2019, 16:26:08
Just for the sake of clarity and to put the speculation to bed -

Frank did indeed die of a sudden terminal illness. There is a thread on the admin forum in which he relates this to other administrators at the time.
23  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Exit Symptoms/Signposts on: October 06, 2018, 08:29:52
Got any links/details regarding recommended indirect methods?

I think any method that utilizes losing consciousness right before the OBE is great way for people to get some experience under their belt. This way, unlike direct methods, you don't get all analytical about it and constantly wondering if you're nearly there. Let your consciousness do the work for you. I think going straight for a direct OBE is hard but if you've already created a path in the long grass through some indirect methods it makes it easier to then do direct ones and once you do then move onto direct methods you know exactly what an obe is like for you abd so you k now just how close or far away you are.

If I remember rightly when I first started I did the timer method which involved getting up at around d 5 am then listenING to some binaural beats to send you to sleep but it had a timer go off after a certain amount of time to wake you. You would then drift off again and the timer would go off again after a shorter period of time. This would continue about four times with the time betweens alarms getting shkrter and shorter and all the while your consciousness is levelling off around the wake sleep border and invariably you would automatically experience something like the vibrations or just find yourself out of body.

Also the wake back to bed method is good. I still utilize a modified version of that with about a success rate of 85%.

With these methids you don't need to worry about exit techniques or questions how close you are. William Buhl man did indirect techniques for years.

With doing a direct method wit no experience you are flying a little blind not really ever sure if you're doing it right. Sure there are lots of generic symptoms of our OBEs as guidelines but reading too much into them can hinder progress because your experience of symptoms s might be different from another's and you question if you're doing it right. They experienced the vibrations. Why can't I? I must be doing something wrong.
24  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Exit Symptoms/Signposts on: October 05, 2018, 05:29:14
To me it just sounds like you are not far enough along to try an exit technique. I don't pay much attention to smaller exits symptoms like etheric limbs moving. It just distracts you from the goal here. For me I wait for that clear shift in consciousNess. That is my cue to attempt an exit technique. With practice you just know when it's time. This is why i advocate indirect obe methods first.

My shift in consciousnees feels like an internal whoosh sensation
25  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: HemiSync insanely expensive, only option? on: October 01, 2018, 08:22:58
I have had OBES with Metamusic.  They work just as well as straight hemi-sync. For me I also know that the effect of hemi-sync continues after I stop listening to it for a good while after. Your brain will still be giving off those theta and delta frequencies. When I do a hemi-sync meditation and don't experience an obe during the length of the exercise I will often turn on my side and simply go to sleep and most of time I will then experience an obe at this point.
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