I agree, but a lot of people don't realise that channelings come through a fog of distortion  and people often take them as undisputed fact.

It's more difficult because the channeling individual may have no idea what part is genuine and what part comes from their own mind or mind of others in the room. We all have our own beliefs.

The problem is obvious when Elias describes how the 'Elias' that we hear at our end is actually an amalgamation of the 'real' Elias and the channeling subject - for the duration of the communication, 'elias' is in effect a new being, made up of the two personalities.

No wonder ideas, concepts and theories get mixed up! Channeling will always suffer from these limitations, which is why i guess the best approach is Monroe's or Frank's: i.e. go there yourself and experience it directly... easier said than done though for most of us!

That's why I brought the 'Elias' material to light. Although you might not accept everything that elias says and all channelled information has to be treated with caution, there is much there that recommends itself to Frank's model and may provide an extension to it.

Yes, it does take a while to get your head around it, but actually, a lot of it does make sense when you come to think of it.

The 25th of December was chosen as Jesus's birthday as it coincided with the winter solstice and the birthday of the eastern Son God Mithras, who's birthday was 25th December.

While Christianity was not a sun cult per say, as I have heard some people say, there is no doubt that Sun worship practises were incorporated into the religion to make it more popular and to provide a sense of continuity.

People seem to imagine that christianity sprung out of nowhere and appeared fully formed. This is not true.

Sun worship was very popular, with emperors introducing elements of this into religious practise as early as the 270s AD.

When the emperors from Constantine onwards incorporated christianity into state religion, there was some smoothing over.

Churches were aligned to the east to face the rising sun, jesus's birthday was made 25th of december. Jesus took on certain elements of the Sun and actually this worked very well as the sun served as a useful metaphor for jesus and the message of christianity; that christianity incorporated many pagan elements should not be seen as an attack. I'm just saying it used these themes as they were already popular motifs... its just used them to convey its own particular message.

A well known example today would be the harvest festivals.. especially Thanksgiving in America... the harvest festival, giving thanks for a good harvest, with offerings of the produce etc, goes back to ancient times. The festival has continued but it has now been incorporated by christianity and this ancient pagan celebration is now used to convey the message of christianity: People used to give thanks to the gods for a good harvest, now it is god. The cornucopia or 'horn of plenty' is a frequent symbol of harvest time.. this symbol goes back way before christianity, yet it has now been incorporated into the christian harvest festival.

There are many such locations in the astral, all based on the expectations and beliefs of people who shared those beliefs. As like + like in the astral, and thought = action, then those who believe firmly in a hell, with flames and demons with pitchforks etc and they believe they are going there, then that is where they will go.... they will stay there until they begin to realise that there are other options and they can move beyond the scenario in question, often this involves help from outside.

The same can be said of all the 'heavens' out there, based on mainstream religious texts.

There are also all manner of other scenarios there, based on whatever whacky ideas people come up with.
You can certainly ask to be taken on a tour of them, or you can visit them yourself.

Its worth advising you however that in the hell-like scenarios as well as all other scenarios generated by people's base instincts, you will be cofronted with all the worst that humanity has to offer, and then some.. you will come across areas where people are happily indulging in their favourite pastimes of murder, child rape, torture, mutilation etc.... not pretty.

'Life reviews' appear to be very common events in near death experiences. I make the distinction here between 'near death experiences' and astral projections, because the accounts we have seem to suggest that NDEs are a LOT more lucid than most 'average obes'. In fact awareness is often cited as being *higher* than normal waking life, not just the same.

In phasing terms, I would explain this as a short term *primary focus* switch from F1 level awareness to F3 level awareness, which is much more solid than most obes: your average OBE/Astral projection/phasing attempt only involves a temporay focus of attention in other areas but the primary focus is still set to F1. Your *primary focus* only switches to F3 when you end your physical life here.

The life reviews can often involve the participation of another being, usually perceived as a ball of golden light and emanating what we perceive as unconditional love. However these beings are often said to have distinct personalities, even a sense of humour in some cases. They go through the life review with you, sometimes making comments here and there and pointing out things. The life reviews often highlight how our actions affect others and the reviewee is often given the chance to experience the emotional impact of these actions and how they are perceived by the other person.

'Life After Life' is a classic book which features many such near death experiences.

My guess is that the balls of light are guides, ie people living in the afterlife (F3/F27 in focus terms) who are assigned to assist you. In their raw state, that is when they have not adopted their favourite human form, then they often appear as balls of sparkly light. They radiate a kind of loving energy which can provoke waves of emotion in you if you encounter them.

It should be pointed out that 'Life after life' also features some life review accounts which do not have a 'guide' associated with them, in their case, the review is only experienced by the individual concerned.

 

I have observed that my dog noticed me on once occasion when I had a projection and I floated through to the kitchen. He looked up and wagged his tail. For him it was nothing out of the ordinary, it was just me. The fact of whether I have a body or not doesnt seem to matter!

I think this is why animals can react to other 'presences'. As far as they are concerned, they have detected an intruder, whether physical or not.

That's interesting, although for me, not very suprising. I never really took any of the biblical stories literally in any case. I see them as mythology and as with other mythology, they are infused with symbolic meaning.

I doubt there ever was one single figure called 'Jesus Christ'. I believe the figure is a composite of several figures as well as being a personification of the core values and ideology of the Christian system, I never took him as a literal figure. So much of the bible story is related to earlier pagan mythology, especially the fixation with 'dying and rising' god types, a common god motif of the ancient near east.

Anyway, without getting into a discussion on the development of Christianity, which belongs in another forum, I think its interesting how much of the Elias material gels with what else I have read, but also how some of it differs. I think that with all channeled information there is some element of doubt due to data contamination, namely the beliefs and ideas held by the channeling individual, as well as others directly involved. Elias is the first to admit this.

Good point!

Yeah, most of it is great stuff and seems to agree with much of the findings of monroe and frank.

The only bit I don't really agree with at the moment (but maybe only because i dont quite understand what elias is on about), is the bit about how animals dont incorporate emotions in the same way as we do.

Elias definately views them as sentient beings with their own plans and choices and they do experience what we call love/affection and can express it also.

However he says they dont incorporate emotions as we do and their *expressions* of emotions, ie excited, angry, fearful etc are actually forms of visual communication, to let others around them know what they like or do not like, or what they prefer or do not prefer. We interprete them as emotional responses but they are actually symbolic forms of communication that we interprete as emotions.

I don't buy that one.. Anyone who has observed their pets will know full well that they express a full range of emotion and they express it to each other, not just us. I have seen my dog jumping around the house, out of control and slavering just to get his teeth around an apple!  I dont believe for a moment he is just sending me a visual signal that he would 'prefer an apple'.... the reality is that he is so excited that he cannot even control himself and runs around in circles... (he's a bit manic my dog!).

It is hard to see their behaviour as anything other than the same kind of emotional expression as we would recognise in ourselves.

The Focus 1 to 4 model is pretty much there, although Elias doesnt spend much time on a description of the region itself, nor many of the other regions in fact. He seems more concerned with the big picture as it were.

Saying that, his description of the expanded consciousness and opportunities available in Focus 4, or what he refers to as 'Region 4'  is quite close to Frank's.

Bird, The US is not staying out 'because there is no oil'. Actually, Burma contains possibly the highest concentration of gas reserves in SE Asia; that, along with other mineral deposits, makes it of great interest to China, but also to the West. Why do you think that Bush made a statement about it? Other countries affairs are usually no concern of his, unless there is some potential to be had from it.

Unfortunaely the west cannot 'organise a boycot of Chinese goods'.

I'm afraid you underestimate China's growing power. Western countries, including the US, rely on so much of China's products and trade that sanctions are impossible; any action would economically damage the west. Plus militarliy, China is not to be messed with. It has an insanely huge army, and has been a nuclear power for years.

The reality is, the US is no longer in a position to dictate to China. The balance of power is shifting, or rather, its becoming MORE balanced, as America's influence in the world is increasingly more balanced by other states.

By the way, sanctions on burma is a joke as it meant that Burma turned to China to trade instead! Thanks for helping out the Chinese government!

As for the UN security council, China is PART of it! And can veto any action, as they have just done.
You can also forget about the Convention of Human Rights, Geneva Convention etc... China never signed up to it!

Ultimately the regime in Burma is quite safe and has the support and know-how of China behind it. Western complaints concern it very little, apart from issues of image.

I came across this site: http://www.eliasforum.org/introduction.html

Elias describes himself as a nonphysically focused “energy personality essence,” or what has been commonly termed a “spirit” or an “entity.” However, he defines the word “essence” as an action rather than an entity. He says that he has experienced many physical lifetimes or “focuses,” but is not physically manifest in this present time framework. Presently, he chooses to focus his awareness in nonphysical areas of consciousness in which he holds the intent of teaching, or more specifically, of offering information within the least amount of distortion.

'Elias' is a channeled source and builds upon the information provided in the past by 'Seth'. The Elias material is more recent than Jane Robert's Seth material but is very interesting. The whole 'Focus' concept is there and you will find that a lot of the information is similar to Robert Monroe's and Frank Kepple's findings, which is interesting since the Elias material was not widely available when Frank was around.

Elias has also divided consciousness into various 'regions' and many other concepts can also be recognised. Elias goes much further than Frank ever did, but this is to be expected as Frank chose only to write about what he had actually experienced himself and he was reluctant to go beyond that.

One point to be made here. The Elias material, like the earlier Seth material, explores the wider reality (ie the astral) from a psychological viewpoint (seeing how Jane Roberts originally trained as a psychologist). The Elias material continues this approach. Monroe and Frank of course, follow more of an engineering approach. Others again prefer a more traditional mystical approach. It really boils down to what approach resonates with you. However, if you keep this in mind then you will find much to interest you in this material, even if the psychological approach is not to your particular liking.

I have found that the Seth material has much in common with what Monroe has discovered, as Frank pointed out himself. The Elias material appears to build on that.

One interesting point that Elias makes is that he is not a 100% reliable source! Because of the distortion involved via him transmitting this information from where he is, to our region of consciousness, there is an inevitable degree of distortion, which is also coloured by the channeled receiver's mind as well as others present. For this reason, he warns people not to treat his every utterance as fact as he doesn't want to be 'responsible for starting another cult'.

Elias has tried his best to provide an extremely detailed guide but he says that ultimately it comes down to personal experience and exploration, pretty much what Monroe and Frank have said in the past. It is actually quite refreshing to hear this honesty from a channeled source!

Check it out and let me know what you think!

Reptilian, read the Frank Kepple Resource and Gateway Wave 1 pointers thread. It answers all your questions.

You don't need a cd to make progress but if you do decide to go for it, only buy the first cd, which costs around $50, even then, you only need tracks 1 and 2. The rest is not needed.

Quite simply because its as hard trying to find 'little maddie' when you are non-physical as it is when you are physical..... Just because you can astral project doesnt mean that you can suddenly perceive every aspect of the universe and know exactly whats going on and where in every corner of the physical world.... doesnt work that way i'm afraid.