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1  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Question about Guides on: May 03, 2004, 06:27:58
After seeing a psychic, I feel discouraged about guides. I am confused on this whole idea of duality. I am told that my perspective and understanding is limited and that my guides would never approach me (for example, if I were to AP I could walk somewhere with them in casual discussion).

Who here has met their guides via duality? I am interested to know. Maybe I can one day meet individualized forms of my guides in the Astral.
2  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Spirit Guide Duality on: March 16, 2004, 00:14:24
I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on this? I was told that my guides are a part of me and that I am living the illusion of duality, whereas I isolate myself. I was told that my guides would never approach me as individuals, even if I was projecting. Has anyone here every experienced confrontations with their guides? Would I?
3  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Phasing: Stuck at the Tunnel. Help! on: November 24, 2003, 05:26:14
I've already posted this in a forum in the Permanent Astral Discussions forum. But since I'd like faster results, I've decided to post a topic here for advice and insight from all of our forum experts: Adrienne, Frank, and (is it Donna?)

Anyone else is welcome to respond.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear experts:

0) A prologue note: Tactile Imaging is too aggressive, but drifting is too ineffective. Bad chemistry. Too much chemistry destroys the reaction, while too little prevents any reaction from happening. I'm still reaching a comfortable medium in between the two.

----
ORIGINALLY WHERE I STARTED
----

1) My appologies. I have not reviewed all the pages. But I a question . . .

2) . . . When I attempted some phasing practice last night, all my attention was drawn into the region of my brow chakra. Learning is a "sad" (figuratively) and slow process.

3) By drifting away, I speak of just letting the body relax. Staring ahead with your eyes closed is one thing, but staring out as if you were looking into the darkness with your brow is another. I'll list some things. You can interpret and give me insight.

    a) Lay down, get mind set, hold blank state. Body begins to relax. My attention is spread out over my body.
    b) Stare ahead, through Brow Chakra.

OBSTACLES: trying to keep my focus centered there. There's a challenging transition between "spread-out" awareness and having it centered in one place. I'm getting better, as you may notice, but my mind wants to pay attention to the rest of my body (i.e. spread itself out)

    c) Focus becomes exceedingly centered at Brow Chakra
    d) The black space seems to gain a sense of depth. Nothing's changed. I still haven't left the bed. I'm not outside of my body. I don't percieve myself--or in retrospect--to be close to "projecting"

NOTE: I'm confused with something. I find it hard to believe that I'm using astral sight, but at this point, I gain the sensation of spherical vision. If it is astral related, it is not sight. It's like sight, but I think it is more related to sensation, feeling, empathy -- sensing space. The confusion I'm experiencing causes me to misinterpret this sensation as sight-related, even though I am seeing nothing.

One could do this naturally when awake and not in a trance-like state. The difference, however, is clarity. It feels more natural in the above circumstances, more real, more clarified. It is like having it . . . versus trying to imagine, feel, or artifice the experience (i.e. like artificing pictures in your mind . . . versus actually seeing them when in a trance, or in a dream). When artificing sensations, there is a great feeling of limitation, but in trance, it feels like there is no limitation. My head is there, but it is like it isn't. Again, at this point, I am still in my body. I am still aware of my head. I am still in the 1st person mind-set. Symptoms have simply begun to present themselves.

    e)WOOSH! All my attention is pulled right to my brow. I can literally say that I have, awaringly, unwillingly lost my spread out focus. Interesting things happen (Note: below). I've lost awareness of a lot of my body. It's hard to feel most of myself. I can no longer SENSE the shape of my body (I can some of it -- random parts and junk) nor can I sense any area to the sides of my head. The interesting thing is that I know that I cannot sense it, while being aware that I have lost that focus.

NOTE: I know this. But since my focus is usually spread-out and not compressed, achieving this state is somewhat of a "discpline" challenge.

    f) I see something. It's like light, but not very bright. Faded, really. It's hard to even make it out. It moves like ripples in a pond. These "waves" oscillate inward from the side and are replaced by other ripples. I notice three or four. They move from bottom upward. They move from side inward. They curve in and disappear. They follow weird patterns. Silky waves.

    g) I remember something I read and figure this is my que, a doorway, to get deeper. I remember people mentioning that they get pulled in to a tunnel. I don't know how to focus in, draw my focus in, or get deeper. It seems hard and impossible

    h) I lose focus because I know my attention is spreading. In retrospect, I surmise that this came from a sudden spur of interest to get somewhere. Maybe a little excitement. The last I remember is being flustered by hypnogogic imagery and starting to black out into sleep. I eventually get up, but it's 45 min. after I started.

    i) Upon opening my eyes and getting up, I feel like a different person. My eyes are heavy. My body is tired. It feels like I'm just getting up. Interesting, because moments ago I felt deeply relax, but not half-asleep.


Insight on all aspects would be great. Also, how am I doing, and how do I get moving? =(

Thanks
4  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Million Dollars Conundrum on: July 14, 2003, 22:40:55
Here's food for though:

if psychics are so world-renowned, accurate, and developed (as they say they are), why shouldn't they win a few lotteries (big ones), then use their winnings as examples, while putting their earnings to good use by donating every single last penny to charity (to show that money is not an importance to them)?
5  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Altered States, Lack of Notice on: July 10, 2003, 16:33:05
It's interesting to witness your body fall asleep. You become heavy, then your mind begins to feel like it's been tranquilized. You're still aware of your surroundings. You can hear noises, you're still aware of your body. Even though your focus falls off of these things, they're still there, and you're still aware of them. The mind begins to wander, and soon you find yourself contemplating various scenarios. Thoughts become daydreams, though the daydreams do not become dreams. I suppose at this point, the hypnogogic imagery has begun.

I've noticed that I can fall into states of a certain level of deepness and feel entirely awake and alert, yet when I actually fall out of the state and reflect back, I really notice that I wasn't awake at all. It reminds me of the stories I've read where people who drink alcohol become increasingly impaired without realizing that they're impaired at all.

One only has to fall out of this state of impairment (like being under the influence of alcohol) to realize how impaired they were in the first place.

I haven't been very active for a few months (in practice), but I find that I increasingly fall asleep / black out without realizing it and that my focus has improved considerably.

Using breathe awareness, I was able to black out within . . . 10 minutes? Seven? I'm not sure.

Sometimes when I'm meditating/practicing, I lose track of the time, and when I stop practicing, I find that an hour and a half has gone by when it's really felt like 1/2 hour to me.

I'm just voicing myself to hear people's second opinions -- where I am, so forth.

And if one hits states of lower consciousness without realizing it at all, how does one know when to try and project in the first place? And I've tried doing it from these half-awake, half-asleep, body relaxed states only to find that my body either tenses up (anyway) or that I can't get out anyway. Very frustrating.

~Joseph Levii
6  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Laying Down Projection-Related Question on: April 29, 2003, 16:21:01
Last night, when I was laying down, I decided to go through the climbing procedure of ROPE. I must have been doing it right to have only been focusing on the actions over visualization (somehow, my un-learning process has been proceeding well).

As I climbed, my focus fell back (like a lever) to where my Crown Chakra is. I just kept at it from there and it got to a point where I started to feel buzzing / side-to-side waving. I'd say it took about 10 - 15 minutes of focu to get to this point. My body was still tense, but at least my focus was off it (for me not to notice until I stopped).

Unfortunately, I didn't project. I was hoping through.

I'm wondering if, when laying down, it is generally recommended that a person try and project from the head (horizontally) rather than in a direction straight in front (or at a 45 degree angle)

In hindsight, it's recommended that, when sitting down, a person project straight up or at a 45 degree angle.

I've found that my focus has shifted there times before and that somehow, it's been easier for me to do it this way. I've always tried to project vertically, but maybe this horizontal method is better (even though it is awkward).

I just want to hear what people have to say.

Thanks.
7  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Trance-related enigma on: April 22, 2003, 22:08:44
I'm seven months into my meditation practices.

Rather than simply entering a trance, I find it most comfortable to let my body relax. It takes roughly 20 minutes to get to a point where my mind and body are both deeply relaxed.

The problem is that when I begin to concentrate or focus, I seem to fall out of this state.

How then, do I attempt to position focus outside of my body (e.g. Rope) if it throws me back to step 1?

I think that being deeply relaxed is not enough. I need to go deeper somehow. I'm working on that right now, but I need advice in maintaining the status of feeling like a lead bucket when attempting to focus or separate.
8  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Message for Frank on: February 09, 2003, 20:58:49
Insert Frustrations. Of course, you are a person with great advice, and given my circumstances, I feel you'd be able to at least give me some faith, hope, and advice that can help me through where I'm at.

Anyway, where shall I begin.




Do you know Robert Bruce's email address?
It's in his treastie, but I feel that it may have changed since it was written. I'd like to contact him because I feel he could give me the best advice regarding his techniques (and entering trance).




It seems to be around 3 - 4 months since I found a renewed interest in AP and began practicing it again. It has also been 3 - 4 months since I started posting on this message board. When I began posting here, I had many questions about things and I was rather flustered over things (Trance, Rope). Sadly, I did not get the answers to my questions, mostly because people were unable to relate to them. It got to a point where in my practices I took on the role of not just the practioner, but also the student. By becoming a student and observing my experiences and the factors behind them, while experimenting at the same time, I was able to grow into a teacher in some ways.

I am not knew to the scene. In fact, I have had many 2 month attempt phases that I would fall in and out of with gaps ranging from 1 - 2 years. I took interest in Parapsycology, AP, OoBE, Hypnosis, Trance, and related studies 7 years ago. I have read several books, as well as a number of related f.a.q.s online. With the addition of these past 3 months, I have learned far more than I ever have in those times. I have learned things that books namely do not teach and have learned that the logic behind those guides follow by a hard-to-lay-out "easier said than done" process. Afterall, if AP was THAT easy, we wouldn't have need for forums and online discussion groups now, would we.

In recent days, I have come to understand completely why I am a spiritual anarchist. I do not believe in the destruction of religious infrastructure as it is completely necessary for society. I am benign on that issue. I have mingled in religion several times and even take an interest in reading the gospel from time to time. Ironically, I do not share many views and ideals as expressed in those contexts. I would consider myself agnostic in some ways, but a firm believer in God in others. The reason I am not religious is because I feel that those systems are dry and that they are too mundane for my standards. Like a plant, I need water to grow, and to me, those systems do not offer me the water I need to flourish. They confine, restrict, and prevent the individual from maturing. Spirituality for me is about experience and growth, and about journying within myself and finding more about who I am as an individual. Consider it a spiritual extension of introvertism. Astral Projection, OoBE, Meditation and Energy Raising, though found within New Age, are things that satisfy my level of spirituality.




My current predicaments are no different form the ones I was having problems with before. I am still having problems obtaining the body-sleep state as well as problems in properly putting sufficient pressure on my astral body to form a separation.

Below are situations which you can no doubt comment on




Getting Ready::
It's anywhere from 8:00pm - 1:30am. It can be any time during the day.
At night, I take a shower. Sometimes, I don't take a shower. Next,  I do the recommended tensing to relax my body. Ironically, this seems to provide very little help. I then lay down on my bed. Sometimes I lay under the covers of my blanket. Sometimes I lay on top of the covers using a thin blanket. I have one pillow under my head because two pillows is uncomfortable. Sometimes I have a fluffy pillow for my feet to sit on. I rest it so that it is just above my ankles/heel and supporting the area above there. If I have my heel is resting on it, the pressure of it digging into the pillow becomes a minor distraction.

After Laying Down:
Sometimes I stare at the ceiling for a minute or two and just breath in and out. Most of the time, I just close my eyes and begin breathing in and out. My mouth is often closed so I breath in and out out of my nasal passage. My head is either looking up, or tilted to a 45 degree angle. When I do let my mouth hang open, it is not very open.

There are times when I have headphones on and I am listening to either a brainwave generator plugin or a hemi-sync. Lately, I'm strung as to what I should do. I feel that the headphones, as applied to my ears, create a stress that is easily felt. I am usually aware of them. The hemi sync or bw plugin often helps relax my body and dim my awareness. It also helps to block out sounds. I've had rather interesting experiences with those alone, but I would be ranting away from the subject. I'm figuring I shouldn't use the headphones as an aid. Dependency is not an issue, but the fact that I am aware of my headphones is.

Going back to the first paragraph, I begin by focusing on my breathing. I also center my attention at my third eye and try to focus beyond it. At this point, it's hard to say how things exactly go. I could say that my focus wanders so that it's never on one thing for very long. My definition of focus was different initially, but at this point, I believe it to be different. I'll be visualizing my body from a third-person perspective (while feeling part of it), then things will be different. I'll have my center of focus crunched up in my third eye, so I'll just be focusing on darkness (and not visualizing anything or focusing on my body). When I said visualizing, I shouldn't say I'm actually picturing it. I should moreoverly say that I am "sensing it". The fact that I sense its dimensions and properties creates a form of non-image visualization in my mind. I do not see a picture, but it is as if I do. It is hard to describe.

Robert Bruce says do not visualize, yet I am unsure as to whether I am or not. Naturally, when I focus on say my body, it creates a non-illustrated image in my mind. It is one without properties, yet the fact that I am aware of the object allows me to... be aware of something (I do not want to use the word "see". I find that to be inconsistent).

Going back to the Focus issue. That's a problem. My mind changes focus very quickly. I have paid more and more attention to this and find I cannot climb ROPE sufficiently because my focus-shifting is a big problem. It is not so much a problem for things flying into my head. The problem lies in sensing/visualizing/shifting. Part of the situation is manual, where I am not making progress with something so I shift my mind to try something else. The problem, however, is entirely automatic.

Entering trance is harder-said-than-done. Even when I give it my all and entire focus, it's not enough. My attempts achieve a pathetic level of progress. Even when I close my eyes, hold my focus as the center of my third eye, just beyond it, without wandering, I can never achieve the trance state (on a common basis). This "never" is not a belief, it is a summary of observation. This is not an issue of mind-over-matter, where disbelief has some sort of role in my lack of success. The success I have on days where I am absolutely energized and ready and beliving is no different than days where I am not. The difference is that on the days where I am in good spirits, I merely try to prolong the purpose and I end up burning myself out. To give you an idea of how far I am willing to go, I will spend up to an entire hour simply trying to enter a trance so that I can move on to the next step (projection attempt).

The formula for entering trance is simple. It involves maintaining focus, having a relaxed body, and inducing some sort of an artificial falling sensation. This doesn't seem to get me very far. I have no idea why, but it's a nuisance that practice does not seem to be amending. I want to take a break on meditation for a few days, so when I come back, I should be in better spirits than I am right now (Zapped)

While attempting to enter trance, I have actually experienced the following:
Expanded Energy Body (that no longer occurs. In the last 3 months, I have not experienced this), Vertigo / Disorientation (the vertigo is not to be confused with the falling effect), heaviness (though when I've attempted to climb Rope, my body still reacts and I seem to come out of this state), Rocking / Mobility (This is relative to vertigo. While I'm attempting to focus on a single, falling, downward sensation, I'll be feeling something entirely differently. This is usual and it feels like a doughnut-rotation effect where I'm moving in a centrifuge), Pressure (Occurs in the abdomen area. It's not a feeling of heaviness, well, I have no idea. It feels like weight (say bricks) are being placed on that area. As I breath out through my stomach, I feel more pressure being placed on that area. It becomes harder to breath in with my stomach)




I've tried the technique you told me on various occassions (keeping the mind busy with something simple). I'm still naturally aware of my body. The problem, in this circumstance, as I would come to understand, is that I'm watching for something. I don't want to miss the boat. I want to be able to know that I've entered trance or some deep level of meditation then take advantage of it to proceed. Either that, or the process gets repetitive and my mind just loses focus and shifts onto something else. There might be another reason why I don't necessarily use this tech. It comes across as passive to me and it seems like it would take forever to get somewhere with it. I feel that I could get into a Trance state by a faster means (directly) rather than a passive method.




The biggest problem I had encountered had been Involuntary Muscular Response. Now it seems that ever since I got over that, I no longer easily experience vibrations. It's a pity because I can climb Rope, and feel the symptom of rising, but never get past it. I can continue on with it for 10 - 15 minutes and not achieve anything. By that point, my mind shifts its focus to try something else so that it can succeed.

I've attempted to not visualize Rope before, where I'm simply watch an imaginary arm throwing itself out. I've experimented with watching an arm throwing itself out and throwing an imaginary arm out and feeling it. Feeling it causes involuntary muscular response and the more intense I make the feeling, the more the stress becomes. The stress is usually so subtle (very, very, very light tensing), but inclining as I do it. When I don't visualize Rope, I see nothing. I climb at darkness and ultimately find my focus wanes and shifts. Sure, I can start out with the assumption that there is a ROPE there, but in time, my mind loses focus of that, and while I continue to try to climb, my mind is already starting to shift.

Naturally, I visualize the ROPE. Difficulties are provided, however. When I close my eyes, I am looking up from my bed-time position. I stare up and see a ROPE. I cannot feel it attached to me, but I can see a ROPE. As I climb it, it's as if the ROPE, while linear, is apparently curved. I climb it and the climbing starts to reach over me. It's as if the position of the ROPE changes completely. It is no longer straight up, but rather, slanting. Eventually, I'm climbing at a flat zero-degree angle. Because I have to continuously shift my focus (and the ROPE) to prevent this (i.e. fight this), I do not get very far. This is probably why I have trouble projecting: my focus.

This is probably another reason why I cannot successfully achieve Trance: focus. Of course, even when I am properly focusing, I still cannot enter Trance.

What I need are some ways to get around the problems I have expressed. You have read how my mind continuously shifts its focus and seems to be out of control. Yes, that is it. My focus is out of control and I am continuously trying to control it. That is my situation in a nut shell... plus other problems (relating to Trance).




On a side-note, often I get woken up early. My brothers go to school, so they get up at 7:00. I like to sleep in to 9:00. It's an inconvenience to be woken up every day because I have to sit through it. I'm unable to get back to sleep. I use hemi-sync, bw-gen to prevent these distractions from getting to me. Of course, when I fall back asleep with one of these things going on in the background, it often leads to some really interesting experiences. There was one time where I kept phasing back and forth between dreams and reality (in one or one-and-a-half hours). It got to a point where I knew that I could close my eyes and immediately fall into a dream state. Somehow, I experienced a lucid state because of it, though it was not the type of lucid state one would expect.

Another experience, which I recall, was unfortunately rather vague. I remember being in a three dimensional blackness. I cannot account whether this is while I was dreaming, or not, but I recall being unaware of the state I was in. Right now I'm getting another memory. I think I was in my room. And yes, right now I think it was indeed a dream. Anyway, the idea to Astral Project came into my head. Reality shifted and I was in that three dimensional blackness, and I climbed Rope. Very, very shortly into the exercise, I was floating up and I was in my room, observing in third person perspective (as I do with all of my dreams). I floated around the room like Peter Pan and that is all I can remember.

I also had another dream where I was in the bathroom trying to observe the aura of my hand as I do sometimes. At first, it was going in the same way as it does in real life (I cannot see Aura very well), but then I suddenly could. Milky colors seemed to phase into view around my hand. There was a very thin green base with a deep saphire blue and thing streaks of egg-yolk yellow (1 centimeter) at the edges. I know that my aura is very heavily blue in real life, and since I was dreaming, I was wondering if I was in fact seeing my aura.

I also wondered that because I attempted to AP in a dream without realizing that I was asleep... and I did... that I was in fact... AP'ing? Perhaps it was just an extent of my dream.

Anyway, thanks to Frank (if you read this and respond).
Kudos to anyone else who reads this and responds.

Ciao,

~Levii
9  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Energy Raising = Andrenalin on: February 07, 2003, 02:26:24
An interesting ephiphany occured to me yesterday when I was in a situation that was most uncomfortable. My hands were damp and my heart was pounding andrenalin through my body. I was sitting down, sitting through a lecture. That is where the thoughts entered my mind, "This is exactly like some of the experiences I've had during meditation practices."

The symptoms I had... of pulsing... heart pounding... were classically reminiscent of the symptoms of vibrational exercise that I have experienced on many occassion. Yes, I have had vibrations before... different types of vibe states, actually.

This brings to mind an interesting paradox for the whole subject of energy raising, and/or vibe experience. Is it truly vibe experience, or nothing more than an andrenalin rush that goes mistakingly un-noticed.

Consider this. The aftermath of vibrations and a failed projection is often experienced with symptoms of increased energy, alertness, being awake, heart pounding, and so forth. Andrenalin does the exact same thing. In fact, those symptoms I just described are side-effects of the natural chemical stimulant.

That is not to say I do not believe in energy raising, I just feel that my realization has caused me to question the legitimacy behind the process of energy channeling / energy raising.
10  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / The Reflex Mechanism (take on spasms) on: January 06, 2003, 18:42:26
Here's an interesting observation I made yesterday by chance, while I was meditating.

When I meditate, I meditate using some sort of hemi-sync to help me induce physical relaxation. As I use it more, I have observed better results, and in only a month - two months.

But for the longest time, however, I would experience spasms, and for no reason. These would come in the form of my hand/arm lifting up high into the air (not a simple spasm, but a very violent one at that). Take the height of a normal peice of paper. that's how high my arm went last night.

There was one particular form of spasm I could not properly account for: a full body one. I could not begin to explain how many times, in an unprecedented manor, my body would spasm toward the left or right, as if I had been pushed by some sort of invisible force. It was like a spam, but quite peculier.

Last night, while meditating, I had a spasm (already pointed it out). The I had another. What I noticed the second time around caused me to reflect on the first one, and voila, I came to an odd conclusion that made me smirk. I believed, in my altered state, I somehow induced these (willingly), and without intending too I might add.

With each one, I had unintentionally thought about a possible spasm and in what way it might happen. Almost immediately, it had happened in that way. And each time, my mind had been completely blank, and my awareness reduced to a considerable level. So I guess this is sort of like a mind-over-matter thing. I'm impressed because I've heard stories about how if you will something in mind, it will happen (say, will a part of your body to move), but in this case, when my awareness was dwelling on he possibility of a spam and how it would occur, it did.

Note: most of the spasms happen when my awareness is considerably to  some extent.

 
11  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Observation in Dreams: on: January 06, 2003, 18:34:22
Alright, before I begin, I establish the following:

1) I meditate 1 - 2 hours every night, around 10 - 1:00 (in between those hours), with the rarest meditation session being no more than 1/2 hour.

2) During meditation, I often use some sort of a hemi-sync or bw gen plugin to relax my body automatically. I do this as a conditioning process to allow myself to slowly develop the ability to phase out of conscousness. Ultimately, my efforts have yielded me increasing results with the "time-gap" effect. That is, I appear to be aware that I am meditating, but when the session is over, I cannot account for distinct periods of it (meaning I feel unconscious without knowing it, and also regained consciousness without even realizing it. It is as if the time gaps did not happen). These time gaps usually last 1/2 hour to an hour (so I wake up 1/2 - an hour after I supposedly fell unconscious). They can also be as short as 15 minutes.

3) I lay down.

4) When I meditate, I also make a few projection attempts (at least one), and some times exercise my mental hands to develop the awareness (also to help in relaxing my body).

That said, I lead into my subject: Dreams.

Over time, I have realized my dreams growing more vivid and vivid. They seem more real to me and I am more aware of having them... though I do not often remember having them at all (quite the paradox: how can one remember having dreams if they do not remember having them at all). It's hard to explain, but while the dreams themselves become forgotten in memory, the notion of them still lingers. "I know it happened!" <-- that is the case.  I remember experiencing something, but cannot remember the experience.

Moving on, I have found that I have experienced the stage of falling into sleep and having the dream happen (or rather, begin). This is rare. I have had dreams open up entirely in this way, but have not become enveloped in them as a participant. At this point, it's only a visualization process that has turned into vivid, dream-like hypnogogic imagery, and not a dream itself. In this case, the hypnogogic imagery is as close to a dream as it can get without being a dream at all (i.e. like watching a movie, one that is vividly defined, with things happening, and very nice colors at that). Not that this is important. I just wanted to say that I've had one or two experiences with this :3

What I really want to get at is that I have experienced entirely transitions between the dream state and waking up. In fact, this appears to be happening more and more frequently. At the same time, this causes me to question the theory as presented by many Astral Projectionists.

The reason why: the transition periods go as follows. Below is an example of one I had two days ago:

Just before I wake up, the dream entirely became lucid. I was aware that I was dreaming, but the only thing concerning my mind was that I was going to wake up. As with all dreams, I observe them in 3rd person as an observer somehow caught in that three-dimensional dream reality. I am there, but also not there. To wake up, all I did was open my eyes (not within the dream, but outside of the dream). My explanation is important because I want to point out that I was not experiencing the dream first hand. In opening my eyes, I could not have done this first hand either (as many writers, authors seem to depict in either stories or fiction of AP-like experiences). In opening my eyes, I opened them physically (naturally). And then I was awake. I experienced no fall back into my body, no amazing re-entry that could be related to any of the supposed theory expert AP'ers, such as Robert Bruce have come to observe. I was like I had never left my body in the first place.

My conclusion is that I was not astral projecting into an alternate dimension to have dreams (as stated in Robert's treastie). It is more believable (especially by what I seem to experience often) to say that I am in my body all along, merely in some inner state of consciousness/reality.

So what does everyone else here think? For those that believe the AP concept, I'm open to hearing some second opinions. If, when i dream and I go to the Astral Dimension, should there not be some sort of a re-entry process when I wake up? In this case, I merely opened my eyes.

For those who have pointed out the need to try and AP as one wakes up, I can say that there was no such pre-wake up state involved. In blunt terms, if dreams are delta waves, and waking state is alpha, it was like:

Delta ---> poof! (opens eyes) ---> Alpha.

 
12  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / The Projection Stage / Vibes (Need some insight) on: November 27, 2002, 00:07:27
Alright, first of all, I'd like to ask:

About Entering Trance
I'm come to understand that the process of entering trance may be one that may need to be developed over an extended period of time, like a person learning how to ride a bycicle. With each attempt, the person improves. Is this true?

About Conditioning step, and the Natural Resistance Barrier
Do any of you believe in a so-called (my term) "Natural Resistance Barrier?" I feel that it's different for each people and that what this is is a suconscious level of resistance that prevents people from inducing altered states of consciousness (i.e. trance). For me, entering trance has been one of the biggest, hardest, most frustrating steps I have ever taken in my journey to AP.
Like cooking, it seems that inducing trance requires the right set of ingredients, or rather, in this case, correct amount of focus, correct style, correct center-of-awarenss-position, etc. The philosophy here is that your subconscious naturally tries to stop you from performing a willing self-hypnosis (or being hypnotized in general), and it takes a matter of time for the process to be accepted as a normal function process that is performed in the every day life step. For me, hopefully my 3 hours-a-day of practice (3 1-hour sessions) will develop my abilities.

Personal Philosophy
I feel that I have a puzzle that is incomplete. I have to get from step a to step d. I can already advance to step d from step a, but if I do that, I mess up completely. I need to get from Step A to Step D, through Steps B and C. Why is this? Because if my body is asleep, then I will be able to project!

My Mistakes I've Realized
I'm just explaining a typical session for me. Ironically, my experimentations began with Robert Bruce, expanded out in many different directions, and seem to have come back to his simple techniques. All I've done is merely expanded my knowledge so that I can apply them properly. It is not that they were wrong. I have realized that my understand of how to apply them in practice was wrong. So here I am.

Prologue Step / Readying myself
This is what I do. The conditions, be light, darkness, or semi-darkness don't necessarily bother me, if not at all. Semi-darness is the most ideal condition, as indicated. I lay down, tense up my muscles (3 times or so), then breathe in, hold it, breathe out (2 seconds breathing in, hold for 1 second, breathe out for 2 seconds) at a gradual and slow pace. After doing this a few times, I close my eyes and do it again. In the case of tonight, I just kept doing that, then led into the next step. Like most people, I do this to prepare myself. I don't like to call it a process that calms my mind, nor a process that relaxes me. It does all of those things, but the description is purely that it is a preparation step. I don't think of when I'll be ready, I don't think of how many times I'm supposed to do the breathing. I just let it happen. I don't think about it. And the reason why is because my mind is not focused on the concerns of how I'm supposed to breathe. It just happens.

Intermediate Step / Inducing Body Sleep, Mind Awake
I don't want to call this "Trance", because it is not a trance step. I prefer to describe it as the process that dims my full awareness, and puts my body to sleep. I have not mastered this area, so in given time, I believe, I will be able to. This area, being the most crutial developement step of my training, is something I still have yet to develope to the required level.

Anyways, going back to the last step, that ended up transcending into the next part, which was to apply the "singularity" trick. Now, this was something I thought I had realized: the effect of sucking all my awareness into a single singularity point, then from that point, which was in the center of my head, observing the darkness. Immediately, when doing this, I found it centralized a good, say, 50% of my awareness there, maybe 75%. I could still fully hear sounds around me, the benefit of this was that I was not visualizing my body. Yes, I was aware of it, but I was not visualizing it. Good thing, because it means my awareness was not dispersed over a wide area. To do this, with my eyes closed, I merely did a hard stare at the blackness just in front of my awareness point.

I attempted to do this first, but then I changed my mind, and decided to feel myself getting heavier instead with each breathe out. I did that while holding my focus in that singularity awareness point. 1/2 hour later, my awareness was at a very dim point, and my body felt very heavy. The bed no longer felt flat. Rather, it felt like there was a large dip in the center where my hips were, so the areas around my hips felt higher than my hip / stomach area.

One thing I also noticed: I had these black-outs seem to hit me. This feeling where you start to black out, but then within a split second, your awareness returns back to where it was. Any particular comments on this? I had a few of these. I swear, had I gone deeper (I'll need to work on this), I would have fallen asleep or something. For the number, no, I did not feel the falling sensation associated with trance (in case I was in trance, and I didn't realize it). I was also getting frustrated, but decided to push myself. The result was that I was able to go a bit deeper (I probably would have stopped at the 20 minute mark or whatever, and not have ended up in a half an hour session).

Projection Stage
I figured I might as well do a projection and see what I'd get. I started to climb the rope. It was not long till vibrations came over me. They started out small, and seemed to become stronger. One thing I noticed is that they were not intense vibrations, nor anything weak. They were moderate, and they did not go away. In fact, they stayed with me, even when I lost focus on the rope at one part or two. They died down a bit in these cases, but didn't go away. As I did this, things became lighter, though my attempts to shout "Astral Sight, NOW!!" several times resulted in nothing (no astral sight, what a discouragement. didn't this work for auraseer?). I found as I climbed the ROPE, I felt lighter, and things started to light up a bit ~ the darkness just became lighter. When I climbed the ROPE, the vibrations also seemed to pulse quickly, with each climb, the vibes/energy seemed to pulsate. I found it weird.

Well, I found I didn't separate. I don't know why. Anyone care to explain. Technically, at the vibration stage, I should have separated if I was pulling myself up.

So to sum it up, here are my significant observations:

Black Outs at the extent of my trance stage, I begin to experience split-second blackouts. They were not completely blackouts, they just felt like blackouts that were starting to occur, and then they would stop and I'd have a complete return to what state of awareness I was at.

Pulsations When climbing the ROPE, the vibrations seemed to pulsate with every climbing stroke.

Drop in Body Temperature I gave up, and decided to go on my computer. I found that I felt droggy, half-tired. I was also cold, as if I hadn't gotten a lot of sleep. I was sort of shivering, and I knew that there had been a good drop in my body temperature.

With the above thing, I wonder if that had somewhat to do with the vibrations, and a possible loss of energy.


 
13  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / A rather helpful online faq for OOBE! on: November 25, 2002, 01:42:09
I haven't had time to look at this in detail, but I skimmed through it and have found it to be an extensively long (and perhaps) detailed faq concerning OOBE, covering many issues that most likely shall help me progress and improve upon myself.

For the inexperienced OOBE'er / AP'er, or for those who are having trouble experiencing projections, perhaps looking at this guide might be a breathe of fresh air to you. I certainly hope it is for me.

 
14  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Frank :-D on: November 24, 2002, 03:08:22
Your advice worked. But can you elaborate more on some OOBE techniques after having my body drift off?

 
15  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Mental Hands Relaxation Technique on: November 15, 2002, 02:44:00
I started to develop this about a week ago. I do it frequently:

1) Either running the mental hands up and down my body to try and relax me
(haven't gotten very profound results yet)

or

2) Drawing energy into myself through my legs.

Has this tech worked for anyone else, and how long did it take to develop this area? I want to AP, but I feel I need to work on these things to develop my focus, energy, and relaxation to a strong point.

 
16  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Can't enter Trance (Someone wanna help me?) on: November 09, 2002, 23:22:19
Alright... I made a topic earlier, so I'm more or less branching out into a topic that addresses a specific problem most of you should be able to relate to.

I find that the technique that works best for me is generally a combination of breathing in and out, followed by the falling effect. I lay down, I so I just feel my bed falling for a second in between breathes (feel the force that is).

The problem is that I can't seem to transcend into Beta. I can come close at times, but most of the time, I cannot. It's frustrated, and it's hindering my ability to get to a sufficient level where I can AP properly.

17  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / BW Generator (Grah! Can't enter Theta from Alpha!! on: November 08, 2002, 18:09:14
Alright, I've tried the Generator yesterday, more than once, actually.
At one point, I set a pattern so that it begins with a pattern of around 20hz,
and slowly transcends down into a pattern of 3hz. The problem with
this is that while I was laying in bed, I found that my body had hardly even
entered the level of theta because I was 1) still very much aware of my surroundings, 2) my entire body was not deeply relaxed to what I would believe would be the area of theta (and) 3) I had not yet even experienced that falling sensation and sensation of deep cold (as indicated by Robert Bruce in Astral Dynamics), which is associated with Theta. After about 50 minutes of just laying there, and doing a combination of just being passive (to see if anything would kick in automatically), and attempting to enter a Theta state, I gave up.

 
18  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Need some OOBE Expert Advice on: November 07, 2002, 00:41:08
Alright, here's my situation.

What I can do:
Focus well enough so that I can pull on the R.O.P.E. and lift myself up. I can do this over and over again and maintain focus.

Concerns I am Experiencing:

1) I find that the stress of this, exerted onto my body (mental pressure) is causing my body to automatically react by thrusting itself up. The first few times this happened, I didn't realize this was the case. My mistake in mind was that I was experiencing some kind of separation stress / split effect. I, however, was wrong. I found that if I stopped and relaxed my muscles, I'd drop back into my bed. My arms, face, legs, and back muscles in particular were to blame.

I am aware that one should check to see if their muscles are tensing as they are going along. That however, brings about a distraction and takes away from the one single focus I should be setting my mental efforts on (R.O.P.E.).

2) I'm confused about what separation is like. As I climb ROPE, my body begins to go through the usual symptoms (The Heart Starts Pumping Madly, I start to feel "WHOOSH" effect, whereas it feels like parts of my body are loosening in response to ROPE. Sometimes, it feels like I start convulsing / shaking (particularly with my head). I start to breathe heavily, not that it bothers me. I, however, am still aware of my breathing, even as I am going through these things. I must raise an eyebrow to this technique, because I sure as hell don't know when the separation occurs, or rather, what is truly going on. All I know is that as long as I'm breathing, and air is going into my lungs, I'm still in my body. Where does the transition point out of the body occur, and when will I know (if for me the indicator is what happens with the breathing in my body)?

3) Also, any techniques that could bring me down into some altered states of consciousness could be favourable. With the "Falling Sensation" techs, I find that I can only go to a certain point (yes, my muscles are relaxed deeply, but they still react when I go to project) where the falling tech is not working because my body is too relaxed to feel this force... and then there is the sensation of vertigo.

Thankyou to anyone who helps me. If you wish, you can also contact me on aim.

 
19  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / OOBE Complications :( Please help me on: August 08, 2002, 00:35:09
Okay, I cut/pasted this from a document I wrote it up in earlier today. For those that consider replying, thankyou for your support and guidance.

----

Wednesday, August 07 / 02
Time: 5:08
Summary: A progress report:

 

Chakra Meditation: I did some today.

Altered State of Consciousness: Unable to achieve the falling sensation. Whenever I do this, the extent of my practices only allow me to relax my muscles to some extent. I find that I am rarely able to induce the sensation of having my head feel like it’s been put in a box, and that I am never able to induce the state of falling.

Summary of my Attempt: I tense up my muscles. I infer that they are minimally relaxed, but not to a sufficient level that would be required. I look up at the ceiling, staring blankly as I breathe in and breathe out. I find that this does absolutely nothing. I then close my eyes. My body itches, but I ignore those sensations. Thoughts begin to form, but before I can contemplate, I push them away. The most I get is a single word or the first second of a tune before I abolish it. These thoughts are not on my surface mind; rather, they linger in the background almost like floating thoughts. I endeavor, breathing in and out a bit. Moments later, I move to the next stage: altered state of consciousness.

 

Robert claims that one can achieve such a state through the sensation of falling. However, I have realized over the years that this merely brings about added complications.

 

1)       I have observed that whenever I lie down, close my eyes, and attempt to allow myself to fall, my point of focus shifts to another angle, or direction. Usually, I attempt to put pressure on my solo-plexus or chest area. I never put pressure at my head area or at any area along my lower torso. Yet, my focus begins to change—periodically. I’ll be focusing entirely on my chest, putting pressure down on it and induce a falling sensation—then my focus will change without warning and I’ll be observing myself in third person from an angle diagonal left or right from my head. I must note that this occurs frequently and is the result of automation, and/or personal attempts to realign my focus so as I can attempt to induce an altered state with better success

 

2)       I have observed that my face / head are never truly relaxed. When I try and induce an altered state, my body—particularly my arms and legs—become relaxed, though never extensively to the point where I am no longer aware of them. I question if there is a method to get around this or whether or not my face need be numb—regardless of what I have said, I realize the complication of the fact that when I’ve achieved vibrations in the fast, I have experienced complications around my face area that have hindered my progress entirely—problems which I will explain below.

 

3)       When I lay with my mouth open, the inside of my mouth becomes dry… and this itself is a distraction. Naturally, I swallow. It is a concern because it means that I am continuously aware of my head area regardless of how relaxed I may be.

 

4)       Often, my eyes go R.E.M., moving about randomly and twitching.

 

5)       I find that there is no special difficulty in the early stage of an attempt to induce an altered state, yet as I endeavor into it, I find that I am unable to push my body down and I begin to maintain a stationary position—and if I push, it almost does nothing. It is not a matter of concentration, I believe—or perhaps it is—but rather a matter of visual/tactile strength (?). Well, I’m not entirely sure, perhaps you know.

 

6)       Whenever I try climbing the rope, I tend to have a hard time. I find that by reading your treastie, it sounds easy and well done in theory, but in practice is rather vague and unspecified. What exactly is meant by tactile imaging? I recognize the fact that one does not have to visualize. But that is where the problem begins for me. I find that I cannot tactile image at all and that I tend to visualize—and this is part of the complications I experience. When I attempt to climb the rope, I usually have a passive attitude. When I climb it, I tend to naturally imagine a rope. Unfortunately, as I climb it, my hands slip and I can never maintain a grip. When I have a grip and I climb it, I never feel myself rise. I have a hard enough time trying to feel my body rising up with the rope. I guess I should go into detail with the different methods of climbing the rope I’ve attempted:

 

7)       Method #1. This is more of the conventional method for me. I attempt to climb, but my hands always slip. I can never maintain a good grip. I always seem to visualize these hands, and the rope itself, and myself climbing up it. There is never detail, more or less the figure itself. Sometimes it’s awkward when I go to put my hands around the rope. This is because my hand is sometimes backwards (twisted around) when it should in fact be the other way. Often, I find that when I climb the rope I only grab it with my thumb and another finger (a two finger grab). More or less, this is rather confusing for me. This, in combination with my other complications, makes for a hefty problem for me.

 

Cool       Method #2. I don’t imagine a rope at all. In fact, I don’t even use my “imaginary hands” instead, I do this: feel myself being pulled up by a rope. I rise and I rise a bit… then I my focus changes (either on purpose or not on purpose) or I lose interest.

 

9)       A variation of the above method is that I have my focus positioned almost as if I were looking straight in front. I take my hands and just endeavor the rope as if I were opening a gate really fast (using those chains). In this method, I don’t induce the rising sensation.

 

10)    The other method which I found works best is this: I perform method #1, except I put tons of focus into it and have a more aggressive attitude, just grab and trying to climb the rope as fast as I can. With each reach, I usually reach out as far as possible. As with #1, I experience the slipping effect as my hand slips down the rope bringing about wasted effort, frustration, and sometimes desperation. However, I tend to experience greater complications. Sometimes the rope has knots in it, which stop the slip; sometimes there’s something else. What has recently frustrated me is that the focus for the rope’s position changes continuously so that although it is (now) positioned over my head, the rope is diagonally slanted so that I’m pulling on it from an angle. Sometimes, the rope bends and swings… I will admit that it is almost never stationary… ever.

 

I find my body tends to tense automatically… numerous times have I blown a projection simply because I’ve been tricked into thinking I was leaving my body when in reality, my body muscles had reacted by raising themselves up (curving my body up). The same occurs with other muscles—particularly my thigh (where it tense slightly). I don’t even realize this is happening, usually because I’m focusing and/or being passive.

 

My eye muscles tend to twitch and tense

 

With the aggressive attempt I made today, I found that my soloplexus was experiencing a sort of tightness… pressure… heaviness. In another attempt before that one, the sensation was even more profound and it felt overpowering to the extent where I had to stop what I was doing. The difference was that with the former attempt, I did not try to project aggressively.

 

Another sensation I experienced during my aggressive period was that I would feel a slight lifting sensation—be it in the arms, or under my waist. I had checked just to make sure it wasn’t my physical body reacting and I found that I was quite relaxed during that ordeal. The feeling is rather sudden and feels like a woosh, like someone’s put their hand under a part of you and has lifted up with it—it feels like a loosening; I would say that it was probably my astral body loosening with my physical (am I right)?
20  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Free Holosync® alternative available for download on: December 17, 2003, 03:15:30
Experience with sound mediums has created a skeptic out of me. We'll see where this goes. One more thing: I want to say thank you all our ongoing contributors.
21  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / The Mindss system on: December 16, 2003, 05:37:58
If Penis Enlargement were practical, the results would be enough to induce a few easy OOBEs.
22  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Has anyone tried that? It works! on: November 25, 2003, 06:28:00
Congradulations to whomever made that soundfile. This is quite a turnover from ineffective BWGen or Mp3 audio files that are tied into inducing (a)vibrations; (b)deep theta-delta wave states; (c)projection.

There were immediate results within the first 5 - 10 seconds. It is an almost similar experience to being drugged up with sedatives. My eyes became heavy. My mind cleared. My head started sagging. I was starting to fall asleep. Therefore, I could not write the thoughtful post I intended.

The file caused my body to relax to such a degree that I have never experienced. It's hard to understand the sensation of paralysis until you have experienced it yourself. I found that I was able to attempt ROPE without my body reacting / tensing. Excellent progress, I thought! Now I'm getting somewhere.

But I didn't project. Nor did the audiofile give me the promised vibrations.

This has also caused me to reminisce on the idea that I will need more powerful / effective audio files if I am to use hemi-sync in the future. After all, if I'm still conscious, something is wrong.
23  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Has anyone tried that? It works! on: November 24, 2003, 05:39:48
Ugh. It's make me fall asleep! My head's sagging, and my eyes are drooping. nooo!!
24  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Permanent Astral Topics! / Achieving consciousness state for Astral phasing on: November 24, 2003, 05:23:28
Dear experts:

0) A prologue note: Tactile Imaging is too aggressive, but drifting is too ineffective. Bad chemistry. Too much chemistry destroys the reaction, while too little prevents any reaction from happening. I'm still reaching a comfortable medium in between the two.

----
ORIGINALLY WHERE I STARTED
----

1) My appologies. I have not reviewed all the pages. But I a question . . .

2) . . . When I attempted some phasing practice last night, all my attention was drawn into the region of my brow chakra. Learning is a "sad" (figuratively) and slow process.

3) By drifting away, I speak of just letting the body relax. Staring ahead with your eyes closed is one thing, but staring out as if you were looking into the darkness with your brow is another. I'll list some things. You can interpret and give me insight.

    a) Lay down, get mind set, hold blank state. Body begins to relax. My attention is spread out over my body.
    b) Stare ahead, through Brow Chakra.

OBSTACLES: trying to keep my focus centered there. There's a challenging transition between "spread-out" awareness and having it centered in one place. I'm getting better, as you may notice, but my mind wants to pay attention to the rest of my body (i.e. spread itself out)

    c) Focus becomes exceedingly centered at Brow Chakra
    d) The black space seems to gain a sense of depth. Nothing's changed. I still haven't left the bed. I'm not outside of my body. I don't percieve myself--or in retrospect--to be close to "projecting"

NOTE: I'm confused with something. I find it hard to believe that I'm using astral sight, but at this point, I gain the sensation of spherical vision. If it is astral related, it is not sight. It's like sight, but I think it is more related to sensation, feeling, empathy -- sensing space. The confusion I'm experiencing causes me to misinterpret this sensation as sight-related, even though I am seeing nothing.

One could do this naturally when awake and not in a trance-like state. The difference, however, is clarity. It feels more natural in the above circumstances, more real, more clarified. It is like having it . . . versus trying to imagine, feel, or artifice the experience (i.e. like artificing pictures in your mind . . . versus actually seeing them when in a trance, or in a dream). When artificing sensations, there is a great feeling of limitation, but in trance, it feels like there is no limitation. My head is there, but it is like it isn't. Again, at this point, I am still in my body. I am still aware of my head. I am still in the 1st person mind-set. Symptoms have simply begun to present themselves.

    e)WOOSH! All my attention is pulled right to my brow. I can literally say that I have, awaringly, unwillingly lost my spread out focus. Interesting things happen (Note: below). I've lost awareness of a lot of my body. It's hard to feel most of myself. I can no longer SENSE the shape of my body (I can some of it -- random parts and junk) nor can I sense any area to the sides of my head. The interesting thing is that I know that I cannot sense it, while being aware that I have lost that focus.

NOTE: I know this. But since my focus is usually spread-out and not compressed, achieving this state is somewhat of a "discpline" challenge.

    f) I see something. It's like light, but not very bright. Faded, really. It's hard to even make it out. It moves like ripples in a pond. These "waves" oscillate inward from the side and are replaced by other ripples. I notice three or four. They move from bottom upward. They move from side inward. They curve in and disappear. They follow weird patterns. Silky waves.

    g) I remember something I read and figure this is my que, a doorway, to get deeper. I remember people mentioning that they get pulled in to a tunnel. I don't know how to focus in, draw my focus in, or get deeper. It seems hard and impossible

    h) I lose focus because I know my attention is spreading. In retrospect, I surmise that this came from a sudden spur of interest to get somewhere. Maybe a little excitement. The last I remember is being flustered by hypnogogic imagery and starting to black out into sleep. I eventually get up, but it's 45 min. after I started.

    i) Upon opening my eyes and getting up, I feel like a different person. My eyes are heavy. My body is tired. It feels like I'm just getting up. Interesting, because moments ago I felt deeply relax, but not half-asleep.


Insight on all aspects would be great. Also, how am I doing, and how do I get moving? =(

Thanks
25  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / meaning of life on: August 18, 2003, 04:54:40
Creation is our meaning, our purpose.

Purpose is the meaning of life.
Perfection defines our purpose.
Creation is the quintessential element behind perfecting, for perfection is an act of creating.

What existence do we serve if there is no element of creation involved? Imperfections allow us to create, indirectly and directly, to ourselves, to others, and to the environment. Destruction is even an element of creation, though creation itself is not an act of destroying (i.e. a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square).

To put it into a more practical (though generic) perspective, consider this. The meaning of our lives may be an act of discovery, but it is discovery that allows us to progress ourselves, to create our own realities, or to impress our realities upon others.

Progress and achievement in all aspects of our lives (creating. perfecting).

As long as there is room for progress or advancement, there is purpose.
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