I also had difficulties passing through glass during a projection.

I have heard it said that the life panorama is reviewed at a certain speed. That speed being that it takes the soul one third of their earthly lifetime to to review their entire life. basically this is the time it takes the etheric body to disperse into the world ether, because, although it is the astral body that provides us with conciousness, it is the etheric body that provides the abiltiy to percieve things pictorially.

  First I recomend getting as far away from your body as possible and just not thinking about it. Second, it is important to maintain clarity, focus your thinking. Astral travel is similar to thinking, and you know how hard it can be to maintain a single thought for long without something else popping into your head.


                                     Joe.

   Stillwater, I really appreciated your post, it conveys so well what I couldn't manage to put into words!
 
     

     I must disagree with you on one point though, you dislike the word soul because it is ascociated too readily with dualism. It is also possible to use the word comfortably in a monoistic model. If you consider the soul as our awareness, the percepts we recieve from the so called "real world," approach our soul from one side, while the concept is formed when we imbue the percept with thoughts. The concept and the percept are not exclusive, they are two parts of a whole. We wouldn't know an object without the concept of it, it would meet our senses, and the experience would end there. When we as concious beings contemplate an object, the percept and the concept reunite into the whole. Now, I hope I didn't massacre Rudolf Steiner's Philosophy of freedom too badly!

                                                     Joe.

[I'm]

let's face it, it's ALL a DREAM. And I'm saying this with something that virtually every being on this godforsaken planet lacks: COMMON SENSE.

I see no reason as to why someone would believe that a brain is merely a physical representation of the human mind, to act and work its way through the physical realm. Well, the only reason I can think of is that one would wish to feel special

For myself, the most fundemental issue in approaching an explanation of consciousness (apart from spelling it,) is accepting that the physical brain and the physical processes within it, are a universe away from the mind and thinking processes. You cannot follow a percept, such as tree, through the eyes, into the brain and into the firing of neurons. There is no point where, as a scientist, you can make a leap from thought to physical process.
   I prefer to think of it this way; The activity within the brain is just a reflection of what is happening in the mind (soul,) we could not function on the earth without the brain, because it is our doorway to the physical universe, just as we could not function without a heart or lungs. Through the brain, the human spirit makes its connection with the physical universe.

                                                            Joe.

[housed within it.]

 

Doesn't this kinda prove that you don't actually go out of your body?

    Well, that depends on how you consider the make-up of the human being. I would suggest that you could look at it this way. Human beings are spiritual beings. The spirit world is really where the "being" is from and lives. Those parts of the human being that are not physical, the mind and spirit, only express themselves via the physical body/etheric body, they are not housed within it. The Physical body is a tool, through with to explore and interact with the physical world. The human being takes hold of this tool and uses it. Some people take hold of this tool more strongly in different areas (for example the thinking, some the feeling, some the willing.)
    With the above perspective in mind, the astral projector does not really project out of his body anyway, but is already existing outside of the material/physical world, and merely extracts himself from it, and retains concious awareness.  (which I believe he does every night anyway, albeit less conciously.)

                                                Joe.

  Firstly, many congratulations on your first projection. i remember the feeling I got on my first time!

   Secondly. When it comes to astral projections, I like to think that the "astral plain" is made up of the same stuff as our thoughts. It is the case in theosophical systems that the astral body of the human being is the seat of sentience, it is where your concioiusness  rests. When you consider this, and then you consider how hard it is to, for example visualize an apple and keep this mental picture in your conciousness for more than a couple of seconds before you have to re-create it, it becomes apparent how little control the average person has over their thought life. If you consider then, that we have difficulty controling the substance of the thought world (i.e. thoughts!) then it is hardly surprising that you change locations, objects appear/dissapear, etc. Practice makes perfect I think.


                                                         Joe.
             

  I dont know whether I think there is a dreamworld. I would suggest that there is an astral world, and when you are dreaming you are only interacting in it to a certain degree, you only have a dim conciousness of it. when you project into the astral world, you can be much more lucid, more present in your conciousness.


                                          Joe

thankyou.

[possibility]

"This is no different to people on these forums not giving credence to concepts such as the spaghetti monster actually existing."

    To be clear on this, Sceptics would draw no lines between the concept of the spagetti monster and the concept of the out of body experience. To them, both phenomenon do not exist objectively.

"I don’t believe anything is ultimately beyond science (science being a rational methodology to study reality). "

     Its true that science in essence is the method of studying phenomena. One key thing to remember however, is that scientists do not begin afresh each time they start an experiment, they build on previous works. Some of the previous scientific works are considered so canonical, (if thats a word!) that they are irrefutable. Certain scientific truths are the very foundations of scientific methodology. I would suggest that these foundations in their essence, do not permit extra-physical phenomena to exist.

    Myself, as a person who has experienced a number of astral projections, then begins to look at the phenomenon of the out of body experience as a real thing, that I can relate to. Therefore, if I believe that astral projection is real, while modern science would see it as hocus pocus or "woo woo" (randi!) With this in mind, I must then view the modern scientific communities approach to astral projection as flawed, and even the scientific method (which is built upon the necesity that any phenomenon must be observable/measurable by the human senses, or an extension of the human senses (i.e a microscope etc.)

   If I start, as a person who has experience astral projection, from the standpoint that "Science" then is flawed, then I also must insist to myself that there is a possibility that the spagetti monster exists, or that the earth is hollow and full of beings.

   This really approaches the heart of what I believe you are saying (correct me if I missunderstood,) There is a possibility that the spagetti monster exists. This doesnt mean that I have to seriously consider changing my world view to respond to its existence, but merely to the possibility that it exists.

  There is a possibility that Astral projection is objective. There is a possibility that Astral projection is purely subjective and that my travels are all within my mind. This does not mean that I know either for sure, but that I accept the possibility of both.
 
     There is a possibility that the earth is hollow. But I wouldn't bet my christmas bonus on it. But, at the risk of repeating myself, this forum discusses phenomena not accepted by the modern scientific world-view on an hourly basis. Is it really such a stretch of the imagination to consider the hollow earth?

   So how does one begin to reconcile astral projection/hollow earth/spagetti monsters with modern science? By engaging with these scientists in debate, discuss where you believe the methodology is flawed, and try to adapt it. This would be a process that is time consuming and that requires infinite patience. (scientifically impossible!)

                        Thankyou for your responses, I appreciate being able to discuss this with you,         Joe.

  Yes, I do respect that approach,

      But surely, if you admit the existence of such phenomena as astral projection, you are recognizing that the modern scientific community is essentially flawed. You would be hard pressed to find any reputable scientist that would support the existence of the spiritual world. Even spiritual scientific approaches that try to use the scientific method to explore the spiritual realms are dismissed by the greater scientific community.

    As far as I am concerned, if people give credence to astral projection as a real phenomenon, then there must also be room for theories such as hollow earth, seeing as both ask you to suspend your rational scientific mind, and ignore modern scientific findings.


                                                       Joe.

   Just a quick question,

   I dont post here as much as i used to , but didnt you used to be a member. Why do you now post as a guest?   Just curious really, I couldnt message you personally, because you are a guest. 


                          Joe

    "It's an interesting idea as far as ideas go, but that's all it seems to be."

    "All modern science generally refutes this..." 


  I'm sorry, Mr Jingo,

        But it greatly amazed me that you would so easily dismiss the theory of a hollow earth because modern science disallows its existence! This is a website dedicated to discourse on such matters as astral projection, phasing, and even ceremonial magick.

                                                                Joe.

  I just discovered this technique called reverse blinking, I found it on dreamviews.com. You keep your eyes closed and then occasionally open them and close them quickly like "reverse blinking!" then after doing this for 15 minutes or so you should hopefully slip into a hypnogogic state.

   This technique was developed for wake induced lucid dreaming apparently, by a person named Sythix, i think that i will check out the rest of this website.   


     Please tell me how you fare.     Joe.