Thank you, Hannah.

I just ran across this article and thought it might be of interest to some of you wondering about the nature of conciousness and other viewpoints. Here's a snippet:

No longer the sole purview of philosophers and mystics, consciousness is now attracting the attention of scientists from across a variety of different fields, each, it seems, with their own theories about what consciousness is and how it arises from the brain.

In many religions, consciousness is closely tied to the ancient notion of the soul, the idea that in each of us, there exists an immaterial essence that survives death and perhaps even predates birth. It was believed that the soul was what allowed us to think and feel, remember and reason.

Our personality, our individuality and our humanity were all believed to originate from the soul.

Nowadays, these things are generally attributed to physical processes in the brain, but exactly how chemical and electrical signals between trillions of brain cells called neurons are transformed into thoughts, emotions and a sense of self is still unknown.

The rest of the article can be found at: http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050808_human_consciousness.html

Anyway, let me echo the good luck sentiment to anyone who comes by this spot on the information crossroad of this forum ... And keep following that rabbit!

Thanks for your reply, Sarah.

Yes, there are many areas in life with cons and lies ... like car lots, the Internet, and singles bars. But there are places where cons and misinformation proliferate better, in the same way that bacteria proliferate better under certain conditions. Skepticism and critical thinking skills are a life skill because of this.

Although scientists can be skewed in their views, the scientific method is best means we have for ascertaining whether something is true or not. The scientific method can be applied to OBEs, but not easily, especially considering the chaotic nature of OBEs -- it comes to the decision of whether or not everything you experience is real. If it is real, how much of it is relevent? And what makes something relevent? From my point of view, it's relevent if it impacts my life in a real way.

Sleep paralysis is something I have experienced, recently, frequently, and for long durations. It is physiological, as it always occurs under the same situations -- waking from REM and laying on my back.

You're right about having your cake and eating it too. That's not really my point (that it's one or the other), though I can see it might seem that way. My point is that the "mundane" world can be explored and experienced with an equal sense of thrill and wonderment -- and in this case, I feel it is more relevent to my life (since it is my "mundane" life I spend the majority of remembered, concious awareness in).

I guess I should have said, "I tried being the intrepid adventurer in real life and I highly recommend it." (Maybe I didn't say that because whatever I say about it, I feel it does the truth terrible injustice in its deporably understated articulation.  ) In conjunction with that, I feel a better sense of my critical thinking and skepticism add a great deal to this experience. Just exploring my inner psychological realities has been overwhelming and exciting, but add the outside world and its infinite facets ... it helps to have a refined lense through which to get the best possible scope with which to experience and observe.

Maybe I'm also trying to say, be careful what you cloud your lense with.

I thought I'd make a follow-up post. 

Looking back, here are a few things I've learned about the metaphysical, the mystical, and life in general.

The mystical arena is rife with fraud, cons, and delusion. Deception is so prevalent that it deters researchers from taking a serious interest in the topic.  Everywhere there are people trying to make a buck off nothing more than social engineering and twisting facts: swindlers trying to garner enough attention to sell books, seminars, etc. (case in point: Allison DuBois per the recent article "Police Psychics - Seeking Kids - and Headlines" in Time's Exploring The Unexplained).

The only areas of the paranormal that hold any credence seem to be so elusive as to be forever unsolved (case in point: Congress commissioned a study to review Stargate which found the program a dubious investment -- however, the hit rates in lab experiments had been statistically impossible by chance, and the report's statistician said "using the standards applied to any other area of science, the case for psychic functioning has been scientifically proven.")

Mystical musing often references quantum physics and all sorts of pseudoscience (see the article "Quantum Mysticism" at http://www.answers.com/topic/quantum-mysticism). "Magical thinking" is also popular, "a kind of non-scientific causal reasoning" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking). It's easy to become delusional in the gas cloud that is modern mysticism -- especially if you denounce reason and skepticism in favor of belief.

When it comes specifically to OBEs, I am increasingly convinced this phenomenon is owed to the brain state psychologists call "sleep paralysis", or the hypnogogic state (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis). This state is capable of creating very vivid -- but false -- memories. Most accounts of OBEs support whatever beliefs the person experiencing the OBE eschews. Everything experienced in an OBE is created entirely inside the person's ahead, and doesn't actually ever occur "out of body". In short, it is an excellent state in which to experience one's own imagination.

As far as experiencing OBEs, it's luck or mastery of falling asleep (or doing the opposite of the tips on how to cope with sleep paralysis at http://www.wikihow.com/Cope-With-Sleep-Paralysis ).

On the other hand, I've discovered there's a lot to explore in everyday reality: things I didn't know about myself, internal psychological realities that seem endless; there are different realities to encounter just by getting out into the world, traveling, meeting people, and experiencing other cultures. The "mundane" world is as vivid and deep as I am willing to be aware of.

This is my last post.

I had a lot of good times (in forum dimensions) here. Lots of good people. But I have to learn to live in the real world now. The idea of magic is dangerous. Fantasy and emotion can get away, and delusion destroys.

I'm growing up.

So at 3 obe's per week, five years comes to 780 obe's.

Just how does one have 3 OBE's per week?

It's not that I think it's impossible, I just don't understand how 3 OBEs per week is natural for one person, and to another 3 a year is a godsend. There has to be a reason why.

So in good conscience I can't recommend any path alone without some guidance. Help from teachers is good. Big brothers are good. Friends are good. Just stay away from the fakes.

How do you propose we tell the difference? Demand proof?

Welcome to the forum!

The mornings give most people the best results. If you can sacrifice a little sleep time now and then to practice, I'd recommend trying "rhythm napping", or just any kind of practice after waking earlier than normal, getting up and becoming fully awake, and lying down again. I think that will be the most likely most productive time if you typically have a stressful day.

No matter what, if you desire to achieve this, it will find a way to happen.

My thought is, without a body to interpret the RTZ, our minds do the next best approximation. So things can looked warped, be missing, in the wrong place, etc. It doesn't explain things completely ... but how much of reality is the way it is because of our physical? Maybe the RTZ can't accurately even be translated to what we're used to. It would be an interesting experiment to focus intent or try an affirmation to see the RTZ as it actually is (if these is even possible ... who knows how much of reality is dependent on the observer ... )

Don't you see, it's not "negs" that are controlling you, YOU control you. Stop giving these things life, stop handing over control to something that cannot exsist without YOU giving it life. Stop, stop, stop. Take responsibilities for your own actions.

This is priceless advice - and in more than just in reference to negs.

Thanks, MisterJingo, that puts into clear words what I think, too.

OBEs are still neat if they're all just internal and imagination-generated, but they are something else altogether if they are part of a greater reality. I've had OBEs that suggest both possibilities.

I guess I don't like it when things are inconclusive - I like certainty, or at least high probability. This doesn't seem to always mix well with the nature of OBEs.

That is a shame you guys feel that way, you've sounded so sure when you talk of your experiences in the past. Do you feel that they weren't real now and just your imagination?

I had to think about this one. I went back and looked at my posts starting when I first joined two years ago. I have to say, I can't believe it's been that long. I also miss the crowd that used to be regulars.

I also found what I had dreamed about in more precise detail:

I was taking a nap. At the end of it I dreamed I was an American on a steamer. It was the late 19th century. I remember something happening [suddenly]. Then I remember falling into the ocean and drowning. It was dark and very cold. I remembered another odd detail about this dream occurrence: there were only two survivors. I woke up for a second before falling back to sleep, and told myself to remember doing a google search when I was awake.

As it turns out, in 1875 the steamer SS Pacific (carrying the equivalent of $5,000,000 in gold) was struck by another ship and sunk. There were 300 people on that ship, and only two survivors. It matches perfectly with what I dreamed, and searching a database of shipwrecks, it's the only steamer I could find from that era to have sunk and had only two survivors. Pretty eerie.

I don't think I was just imagining things when I think back on my experiences, but at the same time I'm not convinced they provide proof positive. I haven't been able to do a card test or anything like that. Just because something feels genuine to me doesn't mean it's authentic. When there's a lot of hope/emotion involved, I know I'm (at least) quite capable of completely conning myself over to the favored conclusion.

This is important to me. I want to know, not just believe.

Seeing the new unmarked police cars in our community pulling over speeders has greatly reduced my traffic infractions.

Knowing there are consequences for our actions certainly helps us behave better - but this is kind of artificial. We need someone to keep us from speeding with the consequence of a fine/ticket because we can't or won't see the consequence of endangering others by being irresponsible behind a ton of steel.

Maybe Hell is kind of the same way - an artificial, policing idea that serves as a pre-emptive caution for those incapable or unwilling to take responsibility for the longer term reality.

Religion has always struck me as being metaphorical and most people take the great wisdom of the ages and take it literally. If you can't understand it on one level, you go with the level of understanding you're ready for.

I wish I understood better what you posted about vibrational fields, jub jub. Sometimes I wonder about the Occult "veil" and earth's magnetic field, pole reversals, et al.

Suppose the greater awareness - or the ability to transfer the wider reality to our brains - is affected by the earth's magnetic field. It causes static in the transmission. Humanity's natural state is the waking life and the "dreaming" life - only instead of being remembered as hazy dreams, every night is an 7-hour OBE-equivalent.

What if OBEs are just a matter of getting wider-reality information downloaded into our brains, and doing so requires short trips, highly lucid, to have any chance of getting the memory downloaded into the physical because of the static (veil)? Without the veil in place, there's no static, and suddenly everyone is aware.

This is the only thing that has me anticipating 2012 - a real long-shot hoping that maybe it is something special, that maybe all this pole reversal talk and religious talk about the veil being parted has something authentic behind it.

I might be overly-optimistic, but I like the hope that humanity has something truly amazing in its future.

I've found that if I wake up in the morning and lay on my back, I'm much more likely to experience false awakenings or paralysis.

I've had my share of OBEs since I started a year and half ago. I've had OBEs "more real than real". I've had a dream of a past life that I was able to confirm the details of by looking up the historical facts - and several uncanny details at that. But I'm finding myself lately leaning more and more toward viewing OBEs and the sort as physiological phenomenon rather than truly supernatural.

I can't make claims for other peoples' experiences, one way or the other. This is about my own experiences. As amazing as some of them are, I still doubt everything.

Is there ever a point where you stop doubting and accept something as real? At what point does that come? Or is it healthy to remain doubtful of everything? You can't live by uncertainty, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of self-delusion. I'm gullible by nature.

Maybe skepticism and curiosity go well together. Maybe if I'd accepting OBEs as real the first time I experienced one, I would have lost interest a while ago. Sometimes, though, I can't help but to wonder if my inability to have belief in something doesn't hold me back from experiencing more.

According to Western religious dogma, there are two choices. If we could disprove the existence of "Hell" then I could see where the world religions wouldn't have a purpose anymore and therefore they would cease to exist. What would happen to humanity at that point?

Humanity doesn't behave just because of threat of eternal damnation. I certainly don't. I think religion has a greater tendency to destructive behavior than to positive. A lot of people give up personal responsibility - the devil made me do it, but it doesn't matter anyway, because Jesus will make up for it.

I'm personally offended by the idea of Christianity (and Superman), that mankind will never be good enough without divine intervention. It's co-dependency at it's worst. Everyone must pay for their own "sins" - I prefer to take responsibility for my own actions. It makes my life a whole lot more meaningful.

On the other hand, this isn't to say there aren't Christians I don't admire, or that I feel have a destructive or demeaning view on spirituality - I mean generally, the mindless faith saves no souls.

It's more than just one thing, it's like a lot of things in my life came together to crack my hard skeptic shell.

A few things that helped me along were martial arts, meditation/hypnosis, and then a random encounter with an article on astral projection at just the right time for me to be open enough to be curious.

The reason I stuck with it is, since you can do it yourself, it was possible to disprove. I tried all the techniques that I could find, really obsessed with it, and although I didn't believe it was real, it happened.