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426  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Lucid Dreaming In Reverse: Dream Persona Possession on: August 05, 2016, 19:05:19
Could it be the "Dream Persona" is setting the stage for the current Dream Simulation? I find that my "Dream Persona" is totally different in some aspects from my waking self and that "it" creates situations that my "conscious waking mind" must then find resolutions too. In that way, it is doing what it takes to make me become conscious that I am Dreaming in the first place.  Could this be the "duty" of our Dream Persona's? Using whatever it can at it's disposal to aide us in not only becoming conscious, but also making conscious decisions in the NPR, thus teaching us how to navigate this area to our fullest abilities.

 I find all of these realities to be "schools" of sorts. This physical realty included! Once again learning by experiencing.   cool

 I have many LDs that seem to take place in the RTZ. But I find it's a "parallel RTZ" that I am experiencing. So many times I find myself in simulations where I don't know the people around me or the place I find myself in, but the people around me know me and the place I find myself in is my "home" at the time. I return to these parallel universes enough to realize the areas I find myself in. That's the bonus of using a Dream/AP Journal. You learn to connect the dots.

 ...and yes my AP's/OBEs seem to have a totally different feel and destination. They are all "non ordinary states of consciousness", but they seem to have a lot of very distinct differences.  undecided

I think you right and it is our 'dream persona' creating the 'simulation'. I see a lot of people saying it's our imagination. That may be the case much of the time but in my experience those are just normal run-of-the-mill dreams. Honestly, there is no way the LDs evolve from my imagination. I'm just not that imaginative on my own.

What I think about that parallel tz you mention is that what is happening is that we are interacting with others who are also sharing that tz. I see myself often in these LDs and rarely am I me. I'm usually whoever the other person needs. Sometimes that is some one they recognize and need. other times I'm a complete stranger to them.

I agree that straight up APs and OBEs and even RV have a completely different feel to them. But I so far haven't found anything there that I haven't accessed through lucid dreams and much more efficiently.
427  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Lucid Dreaming In Reverse: Dream Persona Possession on: August 05, 2016, 18:42:25
This is a great topic to have pulled forward Nameless, thank you!

You're welcome. This one to good to go unnoticed.

The most simple delineation of these two mind-states is to me the difference between the Physical Reality (PR) mind-state and the Non-Physical (NPR) mind-state. Or the two Personalities, as Szaxx has suggested.

I'm learning this. I keep going back to all of my experiences from childhood upwards. What strikes me is the evolution from childhood to adulthood. But I am also stricken with running theme throughout. That is one of helping. Well, when I wasn't running away from hairy beast from the deep, lol.

Cainem provides the suggestion that these two mind-states/Personalities may merge at some point; I lean in this direction at the present time, allowing for a necessary dexterity to remain aware of both.

Yes, this.

Continued Non-Physical (NPR) experiences demonstrate that we need to learn new senses, sensibilities, modalities for learning these new NPR environments. Initially, we just try to understand these new senses within our current PR modalities: see, hear, feel, taste, smell...the NPR forces us to find new descriptions, new definitions; how do we define 360 degree vision? Zero gravity? Moving through solid material, bi-location awareness or single-point awareness?

Great question as those who do not have these experiences really can't grasp the concepts so defining them is essential. My biggest concern after being here and trying to digest the 'language' is.. That my LDs contain ALL of the descriptors for AP, OOBEs and such so I prefer to just stick with calling them all lucid dreams as they are much more complex and clear.

Nameless, you are beginning to question the differences between LDs and OBEs and APs and the varying degrees of knowledge and experience they each can afford you...that is a keen insight...there is good stuff within each, but this realization invites a new level of differentiation of these experiences. Fun stuff! And the sandbox only gets bigger! grin

With the OBE/AP experience...are we being asked to abandon the PR experience for the NPR experience? Or is it an adaptation, an assimilation of the two...and possibly experiences even beyond that...?

It is interesting to differentiate the differences and it makes it more challenging to get on the same page with others as they describe their experiences. Every where I look I'm finding new toys in the old sandbox.  cheesy

Your questions are point on. At the moment I think we are being asked to trust our 'knowing' and share that.
428  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Lucid Dreaming In Reverse: Dream Persona Possession on: August 05, 2016, 06:51:08
Wow, this thread really hits close to home. I know it's an old one and the OP has apparently jumped ship but he really made some great observations.

He said, "As I have said before, Lucid Dreaming is intended to Integrate the Waking Self with the Dreaming Persona.  But it does beg the question of whether the Dreaming Persona could also visit the Waking State and ‘take control’ just as the Waking Self invades and usurps the Dream World from the Dream Persona during Lucid Dreaming"

That's worth a thought or two. I don't know that integrating the two personas is intended or not. I'm not at all sure how that would work but I am wholly convinced the dreaming self can visit others, awake or sleeping.

OP, "Ordinarily Dream Personas are more primitive than our Waking Selves.  And often it is actually encouraged.  How many dreamers will admit that they go to sleep in the hopes of enjoying some primitive experiences of the more morally indulgent Dream Persona"

Perhaps some of our dreams are more primitive, I know some of mine have been. But many of my LDs have been very advanced. In those dreams I step in to help people in some pretty odd circumstances. Until I started reading here I never gave much thought to AP, OOBEs, LDs or any of that stuff as being separate. Since being here I need to re-order my thinking as I am sure many of my lucid dreams were other, for lack of a better word.

I'm still a little confused on this as it seems AP takes place on in the astral but many of my LDs take place in the here and now. This has been proven to me time and again although I don't have the kind of 'proof' that would make it scientific fact in anyone else' view.

OP, "The Dream Persona is no longer an indulged Primitive.  But the Dream Persona has seen the Direction I have pointed and has continued on even until it has passed me by'

429  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: solution sought to common problem on: August 05, 2016, 06:16:11
### What is the key to LUCID dreaming ? ###

My higher self says the key to dreaming vividly is "energy to your sleep." Well I do New Energy Ways and it appears to charge up my *life* - I don't get how to energise the sleep process. A number of years ago I had a dream where Robert the Bruce (NEW) "let me in" to a high heaven if I promised to be good and man it was amazing. Anyone please?

Hi bungalow, I'm no expert here and likely others will have many more suggestions. Lucid dreams require lots of energy.

Start by taking a B complex vitamin late in the day. (or a good multi-vitamin). Be aware vitamins can hurt you so don't overdo it.
Sleep lying on your back.
Toss and turn.
Think and think some more.
Eventually you should fall asleep...
and dream.

Sorry I can't comment on NEW as so far I don't know what that is. I did find it in pdf so downloaded it. I'll read it eventually.
430  Psychic and Paranormal / Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! / Re: ouija board on: August 05, 2016, 04:38:18
so a group is needed cool

haha, I would imagine a strong enough person could use it by their self.
431  Psychic and Paranormal / Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! / Re: ouija board on: August 05, 2016, 04:36:29
I haven't tried it since about 1960. It was a fad back then.

My older brother and sister used to feed me and my little brother questions which we would pose to the board. They were astounded at the answers that were spelled out before their very eyes... given that my completely illiterate little brother was in kindergarten and I was in 1st grade and could barely write my own name.

Guess you two weren't cheating.  cheesy

Funny that I never even heard of one till high school. Then again we lived on the backside of nowhere and I was pretty sheltered. My introduction to the board was by a friend's mother. I was psychically very sensitive in those days and the vibes I got off that thing were not good. I wouldn't go near it. It was only after that time I learned more about them.

I don't for a minute think they are inherently evil of anything but like most things they can absorb energy. And it appears lower energies really like them.
432  Psychic and Paranormal / Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! / Re: ouija board on: August 05, 2016, 03:27:18
I've never used one myself. They just don't appeal to me.
433  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: NDE (Near Death Experience) versus astral projection? on: August 03, 2016, 16:18:33
I wonder if there are any reports of someone who had a NDE in the middle of the night while there physical body was sleeping, and they had no reality fluctuations?

This is exactly what happened to me in 2006. I haven't even thought to see if there are other reports of this. Unfortunately I was home when this happened so have no medical proof with the exception of later going to the hospital where I received treatment and a heart stent.
434  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / I believe on: August 03, 2016, 04:04:53
I believe:
God exists
Prayer works
Miracles happen

I believe:
In the power of hope.
In the power of forgiveness.
In the power of the human mind and the human heart.

Our ideas of God, prayer, miracles, hope, and forgiveness may all vary
when expressed in words. But it is our minds and our hearts that tell us
we are nevertheless on the same page, heading in the same direction.

Without judgement, what do you believe.

my intent with this post is to remind us all of our humanity

435  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Are we Gods?? on: August 02, 2016, 03:15:07
This has been a much more interesting conversation than I first thought it would be. The replies are really thoughtful and reflect much of my own beliefs. The question brings to my mind the Pango, the worlds's largest living self-cloned organism.

While the original may have been God or the Source, the rest only have the potential.
436  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Strange isochronic beat tonight on: August 02, 2016, 00:08:45
I would have definitely questioned her further. That matter-of-fact tone sounds interesting. Of course this was a year ago so may not apply.
437  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Nihilism on: August 01, 2016, 23:58:49
Why an "Impulse to destroy"? that just sounds silly.

I feel like they are trying to make something dramatic out of something that really isn't.

That was a quote from the Encyclopedia. Check both annihilate and nihilism in If destruction is not the reasoning behind being a nihilist then why call themselves by that name. But, on the other hand, personally I wouldn't have a clue what a nihilist is.
438  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Nihilism on: August 01, 2016, 21:12:58
"It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy." Encyclopedia of Philosophy
439  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Crop Circles Deciphered???? on: July 31, 2016, 21:43:42
Great conversation. I also feel crop circles are more man made than not. However here's an idea I just want to throw out there for consideration.

What if most of the circles are indeed man made but guided (subliminally) by ETs?
What if the circles where orbs and saucers have been seen hovering are the ones the ETs are endorsing?
440  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Nihilism on: July 31, 2016, 21:12:10
I don't think nihilism is a natural state.
441  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Being touched while sleeping. on: July 31, 2016, 09:50:05
And now there are three. I also experienced this as a kid. It felt exactly like a cat or dog was on the bed walking up and down beside my legs. I spent many a night trying to stay awake and 'see' it but never did. Although I often saw an impression on the side of my bed where someone sat down. Now as I look back on it I wonder if perhaps someone was sitting on the edge of bed perhaps petting a small animal and my legs were just in the way. I went to sleep many nights with my head buried under the covers.
442  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Permanent Astral Topics! / Re: Jeff's OBE tips on: July 31, 2016, 03:36:59
Oh you confused me. Everything I read about AP says I have to reach a Mind Awake / Body Asleep state and now ur saying we don't? Plz explain why so many books and people say we must do this.

Though this is an old thread and old question it is still very valid. The answer to this particular question though lies in 'recognizing what you know'. Almost everyone knows how to go into a trance state which is just the jumping off point to an AP, LD or OOBE.

Take factory workers doing the same job everyday. Once their bodies have internalized the motions the mind is no longer needed so it wonders. Soon the whistle blows and it's break time. The worker snaps to attention realizing their mind has been off wondering. This is the exact same thing only you are doing it with the intention of remembering where it went.

If you've never done factory work then you may have done this while driving, washing dishes, riding the subway and list goes on and on.

The point is you know how to do this.
443  Magic / Welcome to Magic! / Re: Music on: July 29, 2016, 08:31:36
For anyone intrigued by the exploration of the relationship of music, frequency and consciousness, I can suggest an oddly attractive UK film about an alternate reality world with somewhat varied physics from ours; it's a romance with a couple good twists in it and a unique adventure.

By coincidence, it is simply called Frequencies.

I really want to see that movie.
444  Psychic and Paranormal / Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! / This is Not about Belief on: July 29, 2016, 07:53:55
I'm a little confused and I'll try to make myself clear. After reading a large number of topics here and a few elsewhere I get the feeling most people are trying very hard to learn to AP, LD and all sorts of phenomena. Okay, I can see the appeal. But there's a lot of talk about our beliefs being the driving force behind our experiences.

I've only come across a few references here from anyone saying not-so-much. I can't believe that is a complete truth. You see, my first conscious experience certainly came from no belief of mine. I had that typical paralyzing experience with the great big light in the eyes, cold terror through my veins happen. This was back in the early 70s. The only belief system I had was in god and the devil as preached by Southern Baptists. I already knew something was incredibly wrong with those teachings.

So my first conscious thought during that event was that the devil was after me. I immediately discarded that idea as ridiculous and ran like the dickens the moment I finally slithered off the bed. To this day I do not know what happened. But I do know this, the day following that event my side was bruised black as well as three bruises on the inside of each arm above the elbow. My mom asked about the bruises and some thing other than me told her I fell out of the cherry tree. That was a complete fabrication as it just did not happen. I never climbed that tree and it was not me that answered. Along with 'the lie' I was shown a visual of me chasing a rabbit and climbing the tree. The vision was completely fake. I was a kid but I know what happened and I never lied to my mom. My jaw swelled up a couple days later though there was no visible injury. I have something in my jaw that has been there every since and yes, it does show up on x-ray.

Now, decades and many events later I have ideas. There is definitely a reason behind all this 'awareness' or awakening if you so choose. But I do feel put upon. What I would like is any input any of you have to offer. Also I would love to hear from anyone who 'knows' what is going on. And no, I do not require proof as I know that kind of proof, as of yet, does not exist.

I know that's not the best title but it's the best I could come up with.

edited: spelling/grammer
445  The Astral Library / Welcome to Writers Corner! / Re: Song I heard while traveling to the higher planes on: July 28, 2016, 10:50:07
Really beautiful!
446  The Astral Library / Welcome to Writers Corner! / Re: The Watchers: wrote a book... Anyone wanna take a look? on: July 28, 2016, 10:44:31
I enjoyed this very much. Did you ever get it published ChopstickFox? I would love to read the rest.
447  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: I feel swamped. I think I'm 'awakening'. Can anyone help me understand? on: July 26, 2016, 23:33:46
I want to thank the OP - Rossco for this post. Much of it resonates strongly with in my own experiences. I've discovered that the more I learn the less I know. I've always known that but with these events that knowing has grown exponentially.  smiley

I don't know if you are still around or will get this but there is one thing I have found that works to calm or completely stop all this mental weirdness. Go outside, close your eyes and look at the sun for a couple of minutes. You may have to look then look away a few seconds at the time. Keep your eyes closed, you don't want to burn your retinas. I have found this to be extremely grounding so that you can get on with your physical life in the here and now.

Again, thank you for sharing your amazing story.
..edit to correct spelling..
448  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Everything You Could Ever Want To Know About SLEEP PARALYSIS on: July 26, 2016, 22:06:38
Thank you : )  I'm not that kind of screaming man. Szaxx is the man who knows I had a few weeks back a tough fear test and I didn't even run away or scream like hell lol.
Well who knows when will the time be right lol.

BRAVO! I thought I had gotten beyond fear of anything non-corporeal a long time ago. Till that one recent SP incident. Next time I'll channel YOU.  grin
449  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: The Most Content People - something to chat about on: July 26, 2016, 22:04:28
Those who are beyond searching and finding

Dam, I'll never get there!  grin
450  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Mirror Mirror on: July 26, 2016, 22:03:18
No harm done  wink
After reading your post last time I got that someone could put such a technique/meditation in that categorie  smiley

 smiley If I try it I'll let you know how it turned out.
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