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1  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / HELP ME PLEASE.....DOES GOD/JESUS REALLY EXIST???? on: November 04, 2003, 18:29:41
I have seen a man blind in one eye healed thru the power of prayer to Jesus the Son of God.  Saw the gray film that covered it fall off.  go ahead and explain that one away.  What does it matter what we say to you?  You will never listen.  You say you don't have to prove a negative?  But on the other hand you are "proclaiming" that God does NOT exist which in itself is saying you are POSITIVE that God is not a part of the equation.  Well.......OOPS........Looks like you are not playing by your own rules.  If you are so POSITIVE that God is not a part of the equation.  PROVE IT.  The burden of proof is on you just as well as on us.  Believe what you want to believe.  We do and its why we have a word called FAITH.

God bless,

2  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Bible Entries on: November 04, 2003, 17:34:11
Maybe because the bible has said everything that needs to be said.  The rest is between you and God.

God bless,

3  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / High focus levels and bst have me worried on: October 30, 2003, 18:07:37
Hey Justlikethepill,

You are right to be worried about two beliefs that contradict each other my friend[Cheesy].  I am a Christian as well and have come to learn that God never contradicts Himself.  I can't claim to have knowledge of BST or f27 or any of that.  Yes, it is good to read and to learn, but remember the bible isn't God's holy word for nothing.  The message of the bible is that you are broken and need to be saved.  Remember that, cause everywhere else you look they are going to try and tell you that you can do it on your own and you don't NEED to be saved.  They are trying to tell you to elevate yourself to the position of "god" so you can "ascend" into the glorious infinity of the astral or whatever people think of it.  This concept is preached with such intelligent and flowery speach that it is hard to catch the real meaning behind it.  Just look at what they relegate our beloved Jesus Christ too!!!  A TRAP!!!!!  Just remember the feelings you have had when you were especially attuned to Jesus.  Its that sense of FREEDOM!  They are trying to massage your PRIDE Pill.  The Original Sin.  RUN FROM IT!!!!!  You are NOT God.  You NEVER will be.  Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you are.  There are many helpful and fascinating things out there to learn about existence, but ALWAYS have your bible out to be a measuring stick!  ALWAYS pray about what you learn!  NEVER look to your own power!  TRUST GOD and HIS POWER!  Its the only sure way things will turn out good.

For those of you who take offense to my post.  So be it.  This wasn't for you.

Praying that blessings will rain upon you Pill!

4  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / I must leave the AP for several months... on: October 27, 2003, 05:44:50
Dear Beath,
Apparently my four hours of contemplation and sincere questioning wasn't up to your standards and doesn't deserve a response.  That is fine, but saddens me none-the-less.  I have always enjoyed reading your responses and was always excited to see what you have gotten from your intense studying even though I disagree with your premises most of the time.  They have challenged my way of thinking and helped me to look at things from a different perspective and while I may not have taken exactly what you wanted me to take from your writings.  I still have taken away a great deal and has made my study of the bible more exciting.  Take care.

May the blessings of Christ Rain upon you.

5  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / 2nd comming contradiction on: October 24, 2003, 22:25:39
Interesting thoughts about end time prophecies Beth.  I have also come to the conclusion that they can be used for personal times of ending and new beginnings.  I have found it relevant in my mind at least.

As for Logic's question, I believe it is a valid one.  I have actually been studying this to a great extent lately.  Mostly in context to revelation which is the Christian standard for end time events.  I'm about to delve into Daniel to help give me a greater understanding.  But, here is how I have come to see it.

Revelations Chapters 1-3
The messages to the Churches

The messages to the seven churches were written down and sent out, indicating they were local messages to the churches in "the province of asia"

The messages are very different in character; and for us living today, the purpose is to find somthing that reveals our flaws that we get a chance to correct ourselves according to God's eternal standards.

The seven messages to the seven churches are given for the purpose of self-assesment and not for judging someone else.  We should find for ourselves what fits our situation as a group, church or denomination and make the appropriate change.

Revelations chapter 4

The door in heaven was opened at Calvary.  Full contact with heaven has been restored though the blood of Jesus Christ.  All honor, worship and prasie is given God who sits on the throne.

Chapter 4 and onwards John is shown what "will take place after" the seven churches.  The chronology is initiated in this chapter.

The Four Living Creatures, the lion, the ox, face like a man, and the vulture.  in order they represent the royalty, the sacrifice, the humanity of God, and the judgement.  They represent God's character and every feature is met in Jesus Christ.

Revelation chapter 5

The big question in the heavenly throne room is: "Who is worthy to open the scroll with the seven seals?

The "Lamb", the "Lion of the tribe of Judah," the "Root of David" and the "Lamb that was slain" are all expressions for Jesus Christ.  He is the only worthy being to receive the scroll from the Father and open the Seven Seals because of His victory on the cross.

The first 5 Seals

Seal 1: The first Living Creature addresses John to come and shows him the Rider on the white(purity) horse armed and with conquest on his mind.  Started in A.D. 34 and continued to A.D. 323.  During this time the church, God's faithful believers are victorious and pure in spite of good or bad times.  Their master is Jesus Christ and the believers are filled with their "first love" towards him.

Seal 2: The second Living Creature addresses John and shows him the rider on the red(sinfulness) horse with a large sword.  A.D.323 Constantine accepts Christianity with imperial favor.  It is a time of compromise.  The red sin is coming into the church.  Human wisdom is introduced, the fourth commandment was attacked and the seventh day Sabbath was changed to worship on the first day of the week for which there is no biblical support.

Seal 3: The third Living Creature addresses John and shows him the rider on the black(utter opposite of white) horse.  This period begins in A.D. 538 with the elevation of the bishop of Rome to be the universal head of the church.  Changed the doctine of Christ as the center to Pope as center, thus elevating man above Christ.  The law of God was changed yet again when the second commandment is ignored.  The change made earlier to the 4th commandment by Constantine is accepted and promoted by the church.  Forgiveness of sins accomplished by Jesus Christ was changed to the practice of priests forgiving sins and assigning penance.  Jesus as the resurrection and the only source of life was changed to a pagan doctrine of natural immortality.  Priests and people were sunken in ignorance and vice.  The dark ages begin and continue to deepen for centuries.  there is hope though.  "do not damage the oil and the wine".  Representing the word and spirit.  God promises to protect His word and His Spirit.  Ends about A.D. 1100

The fourth Seal: The fourth Living Creature addresses John and shows him the rider on the pale horse.  The riders name is Death.  He carries scales(judgement).  He is given power over 1/4 of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts(nations) of the earth.  About A.D. 1100 the papacy claimed authority over emperors and kings.  The inquisition was established to ensure that no one would secretly acknowledge any authority but the Pope.  It is estimated that anywhere from 50-200 million people were killed by the inquisition.  estimated that 25 million died of plagues.  The plagues caused severe famine in which many more people died.  Also a time of Barbarian kingdoms invading.  Ends in 1798 when Napolean captures the Pope and brings him to france.

The fifth Seal: A.D.1798-present day,  During the 5th Seal some kind of judgement takes place since the dead faithful saints in the text are given a white robe.  The white robe representing Christ's righteousness which is given to all faithful believers.  However this does not mean that the Saints are in heaven as they are told to "wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed".  we are in a period of waiting.  Waiting for the sudden return of our savior.

The Sixth Seal

The 6th Seal is the unexpected second coming of Jesus.  Earthquakes, the whole universe is shaken, signs in sun, moon, stars, the sky recedes like a scroll and every mountain and island will be removed.  No living person will miss this event.

The Lamb comes sitting on His throne and the wicked sense that God's wrath has come and would rather hide in the shaking mountains than to see the glorious face of the Lamb on His throne.

Who can stand?  final words of Revelation chapter 6.  Chapter 7 goes on to explain the seal of God on His faithful believers and the Saints dead and alive go to heaven.

I could go on but I won't considering this is already a very lengthy post.  In my mind most of the things that must happen before Jesus comes back have already happened and thus I can with a good concious expect His emminant return.  Granted, I hold a different picture of the book of Revelation than other people.  Even within my own denomination I'm somthing of a renegade.  I don't expect any of you to believe this, but Logic's question was a very very good one so i've attempted to explain how this could be according to my own personal beliefs.  This is not to say that I don't think certain events aren't GOING to take place before He comes just that according to my research of prophecy it has been all but fulfilled.

God bless,

6  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / AOL/Forbes Reports: Christian Capitalism on: October 24, 2003, 20:21:37
It is quite appalling at times isn't it.[xx(]

But just try and remember that most of the general laity doesn't have a clue and are good honest people.
7  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / I must leave the AP for several months... on: October 24, 2003, 18:50:23
Then again....maybe God wanted His holy word in bold[Cheesy]
8  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / I must leave the AP for several months... on: October 24, 2003, 18:37:54
hehe WHOOPS,  messed up on the size of the quotes.....

MY BAD!!!![:O]
9  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / I must leave the AP for several months... on: October 24, 2003, 18:35:35
HEBREWS!!!!  thats where that text is!!!!  hehe been trying to find that for the past couple of days, thanks.  [Cheesy]

I totally agree with you Beth.  You would probably be surprised at the similarity with which I look at the bible, but there is a difference between you and I in my mind.  I take as my first "key" of understanding as the literal and actual events that take place as Truth.  It is my "foundation" which I base all other understanding upon.  I am not just a spiritual creature, but also a material creature.  If I were to write a book about my life and if someone were to read it.  I am quite sure that many many allegorical lessons and truths could be found within the text.  I believe this could apply to anyone.  But, despite the fact that allegory would be quite apparent to anyone with a discerning mind it would not make the actual events of my life fiction.  Even though I have had many super-natural events that have taken place in my life that would seem to be impossible, unlikely, or even un-needed.  they still took place and would need to be accepted to get the FULL picture of the lessons that my life could show someone.  It is this concept that I also apply to the bible.

I don't believe I ever said that "milk" was not necessary, in fact, when you think about this as it pertains to what I am saying about scripture--without the "milk or the literal" there would be no "meat or spirit." Both come from the same "cow" and each is given according to a person's ability to digest it.

This statement does confuse me a bit.  I understand exactly what it is you are saying and am going to have to steal this wording of the analogy from ya if you don't mind [Wink].  What I do not understand is that if you know the "milk" is neccesary, for without it we could not have the "meat", how can you then relegate it to fiction?  For fiction is just that, fiction.  Which now makes it not real, so then it cannot be literal.  So now, in my mind, you have set up a contradiction in your beliefs.  Whenever I see contradictions when attempting to understand God's will I know to be careful.  God never contradicts Himself.

hebrews 6  1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation(milk)of repentance(confession by mouth;literal act) from dead works, and of faith toward God(Confession by mouth;literal act), 2of the doctrine of baptisms(Baptism by water;literal act), and of laying on of hands(self explanitory;literal act), and of resurrection of the dead(the dead becoming alive;literal act), and of eternal judgment(to judge you must commit an act;literal act).

and later in verse 9

6:9 but, beloved, we are persuaded better things(meat) of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

It seems to me that Paul here is equating salvation to be amongst the "milk" concepts and that the "meat" concepts he wants to introduce to the laity go hand in hand with the "milk".  Paul also speaks of the power of God to save is thru simplicity.

Also, sorry, could only find my KJV bible right now [Tongue].

The method of interpretation that I offer here PF is NOT MINE--nor is it of my design--it is the same method that was used before, during, and after the first century. During the NT period, the allegorical interpretive method was NEW to those Jews that had literalized the people and events of the OT--just as has happened once again with the NT

I understand that it is not yours Beth.  I have known that from the beginning.  Jesus Himself uses metaphors and allegory.  It would follow that His followers would also use this.

But if you read the NT carefully, Paul did his level best to teach people that this was not the case, and that the "spirit" of the law should be followed rather than the "letter of the Law." The meaning of the Greek word "gospel" is "good news" or "NEW news that is good."

I am still somewhat new to my study of the bible, but Paul is the apostle that speaks most elequently to my heart.  I have read most of his epistles carefully and I believe you have the definition of the good news partially right.  He does say that we need to be in the spirit of the law.  On that you hit the nail on the head, but the other half of that (which almost the entirity of Romans is about) is that the only way that we CAN follow the spirit of the law is by faith in Christ that thru His grace we are saved.  You can only have faith in somthing that is real.  You can't have faith in an ideal.  Only a real personage can offer you somthing.  Especially somthing such as grace.  An ideal can not.  It is static and unable to do anything other than what a person assigns it.  Once you have attained the spirit of the law though you follow the "letter" as though it were second nature.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11, 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation(="milk"=literal), and another buildeth theron.  But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation(="milk"=literal) can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Dearest beloved Beth, I understand that what i'm doing here is challenging the very core of what you believe.  I do not know if even you will find the challenge up to your standards, but I hope and pray that the light given unto me will be expressed well enough that maybe you will see somthing of the above and beyond that you know you will one day need to learn.

Wishing you a most blessed day,

10  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / anyone ever hear a spider sqeak? on: October 23, 2003, 20:41:31
I have spoken with a spider that I thought was the leader of the other spiders around my house.  I had been biten every night by spiders for like a month straight so I was trying to convince the spider that I did not deserve to be biten.  We came to an understanding.  I have not been biten since.  Granted I was out of my mind on drugs at the time so probably not too helpful.  but, kinda interesting none the less.

oh, and I have heard of shrieking spiders on the discovery channel I think.  That is if I remember correctly.  go to the library and look it up in a book Smiley

God bless,

11  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Was Jesus Married? on: October 23, 2003, 20:20:03
Not the same MS, just a friend of the infamous.

God bless,

12  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / I must leave the AP for several months... on: October 23, 2003, 20:08:27
Greetings Beth,

As I have followed these posts over the past couple of months I have come to greatly respect your passionate research of the bible.  I do not come even close to believing as you do, but anyone who dedicates themselves so fully to understanding scripture has my deepest respect.  Good luck and I pray that you will be always in the Spirit of Truth.

God bless,


P.S. Milk IS literal.  Meat IS Spirit.  The Meat is hard to swallow without the Milk and the Milk is a prime source for Calcium which nourishes your bones(which are the foundation for your body).  Meat is the prime source for Protein which nourishes your muscles and it is your muscles that give your bones Power.  When we "grow" we start eating of the Meat, but that does not negate the NEED for the Milk.  I pray for your discernment.
13  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Did Jesus have Sex?? on: October 23, 2003, 19:39:35
I actually don't think He did.  I get my ideas with the way that Paul talks about sex.  Yes, it is ok that you have sex so long as it is done in the proper spirit and method.  But, he also says that it would be better not to if you are able to clear your thoughts of the carnal.  If you have that bonding with a woman then you are responsible for the "oneness" you create with that person.  As far as I can tell the only Oneness Jesus ever talks about is the oneness He has with the Father.  So therefore in my mind Jesus was totally committed to that oneness He had with the Father.  If He were to have sex with a woman, then He would be responsible for that oneness and not have His entire being centered on the Oneness He had with the Father.  The only way that I think He could have had sex on this earth and still be in total Oneness with the Father is if the woman He was with was also in complete Oneness with the Father.  This would mean in my mind that the woman would have to be PERFECT like Jesus was perfect.  I see this as being unlikely since the bible never mentions such a person.

I would also be careful about saying Jesus would like a good F...
Perverse speech is not a fruit of the Spirit (just a friendly reminder)

God bless,

14  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / I have proof that GOD cannot be black!!! on: October 06, 2003, 17:43:06

Ya never hear of a black man refuting the stereo-type of them all haveing HUGENESS!!!!!!!  WOOTAH~!

And really, haven't any of you had an asian friend pretend that they know Kung-fu when they really don't in a sticky situation?  Shoot, i've pretended to know kung-fu!

PC has got to be the WORST invention ever.

I'm a skinny, balding, white dude in my early 20's.  Give me your best shot!

God bless,

15  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Somethin VERY different !!!!!!! on: October 06, 2003, 17:11:44
Greetings and Salutations!

I used to be into this whole reptilian conquest/war whatever you want to call it thing.  I have found the concepts to be wanting for various reasons.  I still believe in a war though.  I have a question for you.  You said that even you would have doubted the experience if it had not been for your long time guides being present.  May I ask why the presence of these guides convinces you that your experience was truth?  I believe that your experience was real.  I really do.

Secondly, your guides, are they the first entities you met in the astral that took the time to talk to you?


God bless

16  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Satanism (friendly exploration) on: October 05, 2003, 22:38:01
Anyone who worships a "Dark Lord" is just a Christian who doesn't realize it.

That statement is complete and utter TRASH.  Makes me quite angry to say the least.

As for Falseprophet, his name says it all.
17  Healing / Welcome to Healing discussions! / please help! -severe social anxiety... on: October 02, 2003, 17:46:20
Passionate Fool, yes, Jason should get off the meds but there is a way and a method to doing that, it could take a couple of years or more and offering advice without a plan is just plain ill-advised, if well-meaning. Good suggestion though.

Point taken about not providing a plan.  On the other hand, I was on course to go down those years of "therapy" myself and I personally believe that it is not beneficial to do so.

As far as terminating his internet connection and getting rid of his T.V. that would be ill-advised and foolhardy especially since most folks suffering from extreme anxiety have the internet and T.V. as one of their FEW remaining connections to society. What do you hope to accomplish with Jason? Cure him via isolation? Thrusting him into situations like debates and public speaking classes without knowing how severe his anxiety goes? Irresponsible

The part of about FEW is exactly WHY he should get rid of them.  T.V. and the internet only enhance his isolation.  Why should he go out and talk to people when he can numb his mind with TV and computers?  I only healed when I abandoned these things.

  Yes, you must break under your loneliness.  You must understand your brokeness.  Break Jason!  GO FOR IT!  When the utter desperation sets in you will understand that unless you CHANGE you will be like this for the rest of your life.  All it takes is one DECISION and you will be changed.  Its hard I know.  Trust me my friend I know.

how do i find the courage to put my abilitys into the world?

FIND JESUS, and you'll have all the courage you could ever need.
18  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 26, 2003, 23:02:04
Tab Posted - 26 September 2003 : 20:41:02
 God tends to do stupid irrational things. He apparently set the standard for his followers too.


Hey, Send me an email of a copy of your universe's smartest being certificate.[Cheesy]  Then i'll talk to ya about whether God and His standards are stupid or not.[B)]

You remind me of a friend of mine who goes to bars gets liquered up and then picks a fight.  I would suggest anger management.  Maybe some counseling too.  I am not trying to be snide here either.  I really mean it.

God bless,

19  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 26, 2003, 22:30:55
The judge in that story is REALLY FREAKING STUPID!!

I honestly don't see how.  Its the only explination of things i've ever heard that TRUELY makes sense!

He knew his son was innocent but had him killed anyways. He is a MURDERER, and he let the other murderer go

For you big guy.  Had Him killed for you.  But he didn't stay dead, he rose and so now there is no murder.

Narrow Path is not presenting a good image of "god"

  Neither are you.

God bless,

20  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 26, 2003, 01:52:08

If I may respond...

> so have you not merely gone from one extreme to the other?

Answer: Merely is hardly the word I would use for it.  But yes, some must take the extreme roads to understand their own brokeness.

>Define satan worship, also satan is a xian deity to an extent. Many religions have no concept of satan.

Answer: The setting of your will to do evil in evil's name.  Satan the name I use, is the most common among my society and belief system.  I am sure he has other names as well.  But every religion has a concept of what is right and what is wrong.

>have you ever tried Buddhism, Wicca, Taoism, etc?

Answer:Buddhism, yes. Celtic druidry, yes.  taoism, no.

>so he has had shamanistic experiences?

Answer: yes.

>I've had various experiences which have helped me along teh path.

Answer: Did those experiences cause you to feel more enlightened?  Or more humbled?

>My path is not your path. My lessons are not your lessons.

Answer:  I don't really believe that at all.  We are both searching for the same path.  What is truth?  How do we get it right?  Your lessons are not the same but the answer is.  Truth is the answer.  There is only one right way.  You may try and tell me that you don't believe that, but if you were to do so you would be contradicting yourself unfortunatly.

"GOD" >deals with us as individuals on her/his own terms.

Answer: True, but if God is the supreme being wouldn't the object of dealing with us be to bring us into God's one true understanding.

>that's a bad assumption and you are intelligent enough to know it

Answer:  Fair enough.  His quotes are ones that no knowledgable Christian could disagree with then.  If that still seems like a bad assumption to you....Fair enough.  I don't think it is though.

> I was like this too at one point and could tear down anyone xian or not.

Answer:  We are not here to tear down my friend, but to build up.

> last time I talked to your "god" I had to drag it out of it.

Answer:  Doesn't sound like it was my God you were talking to then.

>I can care less whether you beleive the way I do or not, I merely want you to understand and tolerate other points of veiw.

Answer:  If you don't care then why the hostility.  I know you apologized and I thank you for it.  I am grateful.  You also described this post as passionate.  I am glad that you showed me the honor of seeing your passion.  I respect passion.
    I once thought quite a bit like you do.  I understand.  I have stated from the very beginning you are entitled to believe whatever you choose.

>Acceptance is an entirely different issue.

Answer:  If I understand this statement properly, you are insinuating that I do not have to accept what you believe.  Yet you do still demand a form of acceptance out of me.  You want me to accept the possibility that you are right.  Right in the cosmic sense or right in the personal sense.  It doesn't matter.  I cannot give you that acceptance though.  To do so would be to deny my God.  I won't do that.  That, I believe, is why you and people of like mind set as you get so angry with us Christians.

>perhaps he has a martyr complex.

Answer:  Perhaps he does.  There will be many martyrs before the end and someone has to do it.

>First of all I didn't ban him, the mods did. secondly its not that he disagrees its his method of disagreement.

Answer:  First of all, it was you and the general concensus in agreement with the banning that allowed it to happen.
   Secondly, his main mode of disagreement is point and counter point.  Its called debating.  Sure he's in your face about it maybe, but seems more to me like people have thin skin around here.

>not really considering I've just clarified a few things for you.

Answer:  sorry, still sounds like hypocrisy to me.

>thirst for knowledge implies seeing all sides in a situation. Are you defending "god" or your dogma? I've seen GOD she can take care of herself thank you.

Answer:  Thats his whole point.  He wants to hear what you think.  He wants to respond to it.  We defend God, God gave us His word so we defend it as well.  If you had SEEN the one true God, you'd be dead.  He can take care of Himself just fine, but he's allowed me the honor and priviledge of helping Him even though I am unworthy of it.  Your goddess is powerful indeed.  Does her power cry to be told of?  Does she inspire you to tell everyone about her no matter how stupid you look doing it to others?  Is it so wonderful that you want everyone to feel the same?  Do you believe without a single doubt in your mind that you know everything you need to know to enter the gates of heaven?  Do you feel utterly humbled in her presence?  Would you suffer pain, torture, imprisonment and death and still not deny her name?

>most there were probably martyrs longing for a leader. Many like to be told what to think, its easier that way.

Answer: I don't see how this corresponds to my statement.  Sorry.

>nope, I get my images of teh divine from many places. the image of teh xian god I get from the bible which contains his character flaws such as telling his followers to murder children. That particular act being something I would never do. So in that sense I have more character than that particular god.

Answer:  Ok, so i'm gonna need to know what it is exactly that the bible shows as "character flaws" in your mind.  Provide verses if ya can.

> I don't mind having my reality challenged. However, I will be rational about it and choose the reality which fits my observations.
Indeed reality changes all the time, thats the nature of life.

Answer:  Good i'm glad you don't mind being challenged.  I think my statement was more intended for others of like mind who like to come to places like this and all chat away agreeing with each other on how smart and proper their own personal journeys are.  I am sorry if I un-justly threw you in that pot.

>As for insecurity, I stopped being insecure when I realized that I'm responsible for my own life not some fantastical fat white guy sittin on a cloud somewhere.

Answer:  Are you telling me that there is not one thing in you that is insecure?  If so, are you truely expecting me to believe that?  How does God ever say we are not responsible?  God is Love, so he provided us a way out of our responsibility.  Thru free will choice and acceptance of The Living Sacrifice, we admit guilt and ask forgiveness from Him.  It is like we have accrued a debt we cannot pay and the punishment of this debt is death.  "the wages (kinda like your "daily wages") of sin is death".    If ya sin ya die.  You get too many debts on a credit card and you go to the bank to get a loan to pay the credit card companies.  God is that bank.  The only bank with enough currency to pay your debt and everyone's debt off.  But the only thing the bank wants as payment is your love.  He is God you are not.

>I fail to see what this has to do with beleif in god. and besides if god is all people then is not god the rapist as well as teh victim, so then is not god violating himself when used with that logic?

Answer:  You believe that everyone is a part of god herself.  So isn't it you who believes that god is violating herself.  I do not believe that we are bits and peices of God.  We are his creation.  Made in His image.  Just as a painter paints a bit of himself into his painting.  That doesn't make the painting the Painter though does it?  No, the Painter is Himself and the painting is itself.  So that was my point exactly that I wanted to make.  But unfortunatly for you, Its your goddess that submits herself to such things.  You can believe in her if you like.  All things are permissable, but not all things are beneficial.  Pauls words.  So, if you find the act of gang rape to be beneficial and in keeping with how your goddess is then fine.  I would offer you somthing better in my eyes though.

>I really doubt you understand what I mean by darkness.

Answer:  Maybe.  But then again, I might have a better understanding of darkness than you.  Not trying to be arrogant.  Just stating it as a possibility.

>Are you accusing me of something? good greif!....are you trying to play mind games? LOL!

Answer:  It was a statement made in reference to the rape comments.  I was implying that if you think we are god and we gang rape each other then that means your god and her darkness find gang rape to be acceptable practices.  I will let other people decide for themselves if those are good and fitting practices for their image of God.


I (Its somthing we Christians call brotherly)Love you.
God loves you perfectly.
May you feel the peace that passeth understanding.

God bless,

21  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 25, 2003, 05:03:11
I'm sorry that my post was not beneficial for you.

God bless,

22  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 24, 2003, 23:36:14
Dearest Kakkarot,

I am not going to disagree with you at all, but I will not judge him either.  He may have been ebrasive at times, but at least he got people considering ideas.  Or, at least he got people defending what they think they know.  At least he stood up for Jesus.  Its had the effect of getting Christianity a thread of its own.  I rejoice in that.  We Christians belong here just as much as anyone else.  I want those 15 year old kids that come here looking for spiritual direction to see what we have to think about it all too!  Not just all this you are your own god garbage.  I'm sorry if that comes out harshly, I hope I do not cause you to stumble, but I must state it like I see it.


I love you.
God loves you perfectly.
May you feel the peace that passeth understanding.

God bless,

23  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 24, 2003, 22:45:53

It's not him I dislike, it's his belief system I have issue with. If he is unable to embrace god's shadow as well as god's light then he doesn't understand what he's worshipping.

NP is an ex-satan/darkness worshiper.  So am I to an extent.  That isn't the only ex-somthing we've been either.  Take a look at my post in the thread about prophecy if you care to hear more about a personal experience of mine.  We understand darkness.

   He doesn't like to bring these things up because he only wants you to hear about things of Truth.  He doesn't tell you about merging with the Dragon, or how he's watched Death spin her web amongst the stars to catch people up and devour them.  He doesn't really even mention his story of seeing Christ on the cross.  I was with him that night.  I felt the power of the Holy Spirit emanating from him.  He doesn't want you to be stumbled by his own personal and subjective experiences though.  He only wants you to have God's word.  The only thing trustable.

But, since you respect those who put things into their own words I have tryed to paint a little clearer picture for you.  I hope it has helped.

I used to be xian and can tell you that many quote the bible without any comprehension of what teh verses really mean

The problem here is for me as a Christian, every single scripture he used would be the same any knowledgable Christian would use.  His delivery may not be my style, but he got the bible quotes dead on.  Pray about the scriptures and you'll find your answer to the Truth.  If you can't pray in Jesus Christ's name, at least in your heart truely pray to whatever is the best God.  Say it just like that "this prayer goes out to whatever entity is the best" and really really mean it.  I know it sounds kiddy, but I don't think God so much cares about that sort of thing.  Just about how much heart ya put into it.  Ask about the truthfulness of that scripture and just put your body and spirit in a listening state.  But, Only want to listen to what the best Entity has to say.  Believe it with all your heart.  I suggest this one.

For God so loved the world,
 that he gave his only begotten Son,
 that whosoever believeth in him should
not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

If you feel that is a misqoute and needs more added onto it, fine by me.  read the whole book of John if you want to.  Just keep the same attitude when you read them.

Also the fact that NP feels the need to convert and cannot accept that someone believes differently is a sign iof insecurity.

You have just as much of a need to "convert" in a sense as he does.  You condemn him and his ideas.  People belittle him and mock him.  He just keeps on going though.  He doesn't care what you think of him just so long as he gets the idea across.  I don't always agree with this idea, but I gotta trust that God knows what he's doing with NP.  NP has openly stated that he is no better than you and that you are entitled to think whatever you want to.  You people on the other hand have banned him because he wouldn't agree with you.  This sounds strikingly like hypocrisy don't you think?  Sounds actually like someone else is a bit insecure and doesn't like to have their sense of reality challenged.

NP at least thirsts for knowledge.  How else better to get to know your God than thru defending Him.  That is the other reason he comes here I think.  When he used to think as you do he went to the Christian forums and grilled them.  He hated the fact that none of them ever rose up to the challenge and really defended their faith.  Disgusted that most of them couldn't defend it even if they wanted to.  So now, here he is converted, defending his faith, so that if anyone wanted to know what the bible had to say he could help.  In the process he gets a more intimate knowledge of his God.

I don't want an insecure god, I want a god who has worked through the issues I as a human being struggle with, not some entity who merely justifies its own failings.

Well then, you are definatly worshiping the wrong god.  You get his image from your own ego.  We've determined that you don't want to have your reality challenged.  This shows insecurity, thus you have an insecure ego and therefore your image of god must be insecure.

Jesus said,
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  John 14:6

Sounds like someone who is secure to me.

Jesus was God.  Jesus was a man.  He struggled just as a man does, but overcame and was perfect like God is perfect.  He knows your struggle.  He died for it.  How has God failed?  How does he need to justify anything to you?  Apparently he thought free will and all the rest were a good enough risk to take, and who the hell are we to disagree?  We obviously have free will, so free will must be right.  What we do with our free will is another matter.  Tell me just once that you think Almighty GOD wanted to experience being gang raped.  Tell me just ONCE that that is supposed to exist with your darkness of god bit.  I will let the fruit of your tree show itself.


I love you.
God loves you perfectly.
The peace that passeth understanding is waiting for you.

God bless,

24  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Judge sentences own son to die for anothers crime on: September 24, 2003, 00:08:06
Allright, since i'm NP's best friend and he can no longer defend himself i'll have to say somthing.  I love you xander so please don't get offended.

Your adherence to dogma has rendered you incapable of knowing God.

It is that very dogma that allows even the most simple of people to understand God's nature.  Not just the mental elite.

I assure you, the myth of your jesus and jehovah are far to limited to fully embrace much less comprehend god.

I assure you, Jesus and Jehovah are no myth.  Have you seen the death of Jesus Christ on the cross in the astral?  Have you knelt before the foot of the throne and felt God's awesome prescence thru a lucid dream?  NP has seen the former and I have seen the latter.  I am not saying this to sound arrogant.  I am simply stateing our personal experiences.  NP and I have had other spiritual realm experiences outside of Christ as well.  None of them have held the Power that
was in Christ.  The Power that assures you that you are most definatly not God, but God loves you just the same anyway.  It is that Infinite Love made possible thru Jesus, that convinces you God is God.  You feel the impossibility of ever returning that Love properly.  The feeling of it is almost to me like being struck dumb.  You point your mind at the the thought of it as a possibility and the next thing you know you are on your knees in utter awe.  These words really can't convey the experience good enough though.  

No one can comprehend God, That is why He is God.

You have decieved yourself.

How has he decieved himself?  It is obvious that all you think he preaches is dogma.  I do too.  So, even if he were to be decieved, which I do not think he is, it would be by the dogma he follows.

On the other hand proponents of personal free-thought have no one to be decieved by but themselves. (I do not think free-thought is wrong per-se mind you.  I just believe that free thought under a power other than Jesus can be dangerous.)  Since they are here on this humble planet and not enlightened, ascended, master, or whatever else they wanna call it, they must be wrong somewhere.  Else they would ascend/attain/enter heaven/astral realm/nirvana whatever.  But wait!  Since we have the divine spark of god inside of us we are eternal and we'll just keep coming back till we get it right.  We'll suffer thru another life of searching, loneliness, and pain because we probably deserved it anyway.  We'll hope to do a bit better this time and carry that energy/essence/karma on.  So we can eventually go back to the image of god.  All the beautiful journey of god learning.

You have allowed delusions projected from your own ego to become the image of god.

Wait?  Oops.  I actually think you got that one reversed.  Now, please don't get huffy with me.  He came to God thru loss of ego.  He takes the word of God's holy bible to get his image of God.  Its not from flights of fancy or sifting thru a whole bunch of different ideas picking up ones that "make sense to me", and since it makes sense to me and i'm a part of god it must be ok for now.  Until another idea comes along that makes more sense.  One always does.  It seems to me that the general concensus here is more at fault for getting the image of God from their own ego than NP is.

I'm sorry that I had to be a bit harsh with this one, but there have been so, so, many contradictions in my mind with what has been said by some people here.  You condemn NP for being narrow-minded, yet when he tells you that he used to be like you guys you ignore it.  He believed many of the same ideas that are here on this site.  Could he have done that with a narrow mind?  I don't know a guy more well versed in world religions.  I myself, used to believe in the very things I spoke of above.

Maybe his delivery isn't the best.  Yes, I know, he can come off very arrogant.  It's not really all arrogance though i've come to find out.  Its also un-shakable confidence.  So here he was, at this site, a veritable buffet of spiritual concepts and ideas, giving his two cents.  Trying to get people questioning, reasoning, and searching.  He wanted you to bring all the questions everyone has about Christianity out so he could answer them with confidence that would make an impression.  Answer them in hope that they will plant a seed you may choose to let God water. Maybe he was too inflamatory about it at times, but hey at least he admits that he is a hopeless sinner.  We all got problems.

I don't agree with some of the things that he did.  I don't agree with some of the things people here have done.  But then again.  most likely no one cares.

So please, keep on sailing off into the ocean with out a compass.  Ban those who bring the concept that you are not your own god. Its your God given right and God has a funny way of showing people back home.


I love you.
God loves you perfectly.
The peace that passeth understanding is waiting for you.

God bless


P.S. Sorry this post kinda went off on a generalization of the attitude held by quite a few of the people who do not like NP.  But, just because you dont' like him make his ideas any less worthy than anyone elses.
25  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The Neverending Thread (was SATAN DECEIVES YOU) on: September 23, 2003, 17:56:51
I have done a little bit of reading about ancient Japan and its wars.  You might be surprised to see how many times they invaded China.  You might be even more surprised to find out why.  China was considered to be the land of the gods.  The holy land so to speak.  So, I cannot at all agree with the idea that holy wars have not been started by Buddhists.

God bless,

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