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101  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / My 1st OBE!!! on: September 18, 2002, 02:09:03
My bad, bad wording.

Were you grinning all day?

Patty
102  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Poll on: September 17, 2002, 21:17:06
To varying degrees:

1 - 4 No

5 - 7 Yes

Patty
103  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Many Virtual Obe's no real one yet? on: September 17, 2002, 01:32:34
Hey Jeff,

I like that!

Weagle, I wish I had some words of wisdom. I have some iffy experiences and some that are definitely 'out' and others too. I kinda think they are all 'real' but they just aren't quite what we are looking for.

Jeff - any good tips on how to increase conscious awareness? Buhlman's tips don't work for me.

Patty
104  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / real time obe!!!!!! on: September 16, 2002, 23:08:52
Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

Patty
105  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / My second real time OBE! on: September 16, 2002, 13:42:40
Hi Tia!

I'm happy for you, and I can relate to the disappointment too! It's like, it's a blast and expands my sense of what is possible and what might be real (very very cool) but on the other hand I want to travel the universe, meet a guide, see the light, and get absolute verification of it all to boot.

Still, each excursion is a 'step into a greater universe' or something, right?

Congrats again!

Patty
106  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Question ... on: September 16, 2002, 13:35:54
Thanks Jacara, I must have missed that when I was reading through the posts last night.

My recollections make sense, then. Pheww!

Your experience with your brow freaking out is most interesting! Thanks for sharing that!

Patty
107  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Can anyone relate? on: September 16, 2002, 03:35:33
Hi Tisha,

Well, I'm not convinced that astral is spiritual either!!! hee hee hee, it gets kind of sticky when you analyze things too much.  

What seems most spiritual to me is transcendant to these 'planes,' and 'love' seems about as close as we can get. And releasing the ego. Really, any of the buddhist teachings.

Speaking of which, your response seems at odds with the zen approach that you have towards things. Are you wiccan or buddhist? Some of both?

Thank you for your thoughts, and the welcome back.

Patty
108  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / I nearly got it!! on: September 16, 2002, 03:14:14
I wanted to mention that water in dreams symbolizes spirit.

Your dream of swimming across a mossy lake with your family behind you, towards an authority figure.... Seems most fitting and in line with your intent. It is a dream rich with symbolism, but I won't analyze the whole thing for you as that really is probably best left to you. Still, the water/spirit symbolism strikes me.

My projections are from a sleeping state, the best I can do so far is drift in and out of consciousness and eventually pull away in a sticky fashion. I have taken some time away from attempts, as my children are small and require a well rested mother particularly now that the school year is getting into swing.  I think also there is something to be said for 'need.' In my experience, my personal need dictates the intensity of experience, which really pisses me off as I would love to explore the universe but honestly 'need' to be present exactly where I am.  Still, I can rail at it and have an occasional projection.

Good luck!

Patty
109  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / More sex in the Astral Plane... on: September 16, 2002, 03:00:55
This really is a tenuous topic, isn't it?  There aren't enough women pipng up (not that I'm sexist, but then maybe I am as I tend to think that sex as an acceptor must be different than sex as a giver) So I'll just add a few of my thoughts.

1. Our ideas might in part be shaped on what we view as the final destiny of souls. Some systems of thought hold that we join a 'communion' upon death. Retaining a sense of self, but in concert with everyone else, to the point that there is no clear definition between where I end and you begin.

I personally like this system of thought.

Other systems describe afterlife (or all of existence through time) as a progression, of each of us ultimately becoming a creator God in our own right, creating our own worlds and so on. THis kind of scenario inherently seems more given to boundaries between 'me' and 'you.'

Perhaps our ideas about whether astral sex is okay, lies in part with whether we think we will all be 'together again' someday (as I happen to think) or not.

2. My other thought about it is that sex is such a big word too - You talk of making love vs having sex, but there are lots of variations beyond that.

Astral sex in my mind, isn't some sort of rutting animal sort-of-thing. It is instead allowing oneself to be intimate and open, in an environment where real intimacy is pretty easy. I have had some bizarre experiences all over the board, but none of them were negative. They all make me feel much more alive, and connected, and hopeful. Like the barriers between us really ARE illusory.

Maybe we are talking about apples and oranges here - Maybe I don't have a clue about what is meant by astral sex.   It sounds like we are all coming at this from different perspectives, so it is good that we are able to discuss it without getting into right or wrong.

Patty
110  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / My 1st OBE!!! on: September 16, 2002, 02:37:52
Ahhh man! That's GREAT!

Very similar to my first - I remember so clearly the dream just vanishing when the cue sunk in that I was dreaming and not really awake.  

I am also glad to hear that you stuck with the dream journaling. That's always been a help to me.

So were you buzzing around all day afterwards?Huh?

Patty
111  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / foot problem on: September 16, 2002, 02:31:08
You could try turning this into an advantage.

Ex: When I try to relax more deeply into trance, I will often have a major twitch (almost spasm) that jolts me back to full awareness/no trance.

This was really annoying, until I realized that it may well have been a tool I could use to keep myself from falling asleep. So I started mentally thanking myself for the twitches, because they allowed me to practice relaxing over longer periods of time in a session. they never annoy me anymore, because they keep me from falling asleep on those nights that i am trying to attain a good trance.

Maybe you could find a good use for your dilemma? Maybe it is an opportunity to practice moving your awareness around your body (to your foot, for example) or something?

Patty
112  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Can anyone relate? on: September 16, 2002, 02:23:25
Dan - Where have you heard or learned that 'gaining knowledge' was a spiritual basic?

I ask for personal reasons, loving others seems like an obvious intuitive spiritual purpose, but isn't 'knowledge' rather an earthly endeavor? In the past this quandry has left me feeling less-than-certain that I should spend energy trying to project, when instead I could spend that energy towards being more loving towards others. I hope you can help me with this question?

Pearlybear  - I am not sure where your approach would lead. I doubt it would be 'bad' --- Perhaps if it causes you to approach with more fear, you may 'reap what you sow' sort of thing. But I don't know why the directions in and of themselves would lead to good or bad.

Patty
113  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Question ... on: September 16, 2002, 02:17:48
I could have sworn Robert recommended closing chakras at the end of a session. Just imagine them closing one by one, from the top down, That's my recollection.

But since I usually end up asleep at the end of a session - I usually don't get around to closing them.

Patty
114  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / chest pains? what? on: September 16, 2002, 02:13:23
See a doctor!!!!

they can see if your heart indeed did have an attack. Through various means - ekg, stress test on the treadmill, etc.

DH had/has occasional chest pains (since early thirties), and is fit. They were able to address the possibility of heart attack. it looks like he has some sort of arrhythmia. Also, a brother had chest pains, went to see the doctor. They kept him overnight for tests, and finally diagnosed some sort of reflux or something. Without testing, you just don't know.

Good luck with this - It is hopefully nothing-

love,

Patty

Patty
115  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / My only OBE on: September 09, 2002, 19:40:13
hi Blossom,

I loved your account. Thank you for sharing it.

I appreciate your approach ('realism') - I am skeptical of OBE and AP although I regularly have such experiences. I wonder if they are internally generated or truly represent another level of reality.  Regardless of what my be at the root of such experiences, they are wonderful and lead us to ask more about life and existence! So they are 'good' things!

In my experience, the initial experiences were the most intense. This was about four years ago for me. Since then, I have repeating experiences of one sort or another, but they have not packed the same punch. I wonder if this is because I don't 'need' such a profound experience (need at a spiritual level) as I did four years ago.

Welcome to the forum!

Patty
116  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / More sex in the Astral Plane... on: September 09, 2002, 02:14:27
Hi Meg,

I kinda think we are all connected in a very real way --- it's just a matter of tuning into the connection. I think that there is nothing wrong with astral sex provided it isn't interfering with your physical relationships, etc.  I think astral sex is just a direct manifestation of tuning into the connectedness that already exists between yourself and another person.

In other words, I don't think you are 'doing' something when you have astral sex that you  weren't doing before; rather I think you simply tuned into the fact that you were doing it.

Also, on the psychic self defense forum someone posted a similar topic five or six weeks ago. It  is now 4 pages long (I think) and posted by Clarissa (I think.) You'd probably enjoy the read.

Patty
117  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / See ya later! on: August 05, 2002, 22:35:02
That sounded more blunt than I intended. I just need to go within for a while. Maybe a month. Getting too addicted to the computer, it happens.

Patty
118  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Something I noticed, and questions for you on: August 05, 2002, 22:08:06
Ya gotta admit, being lost thousands of miles from land is a reasonable cause for concern. As if jumping into a volcano wasn't bad enough.....

LOL, it was a good movie.

I should say it again because it sounds like it has gotten lost somewhere in the thread. I'm happy with what's been going on in my life the last few weeks.  I feel generally positive. And  I seem to be in a dry spell. there's nothing wrong with that. I plan to keep at it. There's also nothing wrong with my mindset. And I don't plan to change my basic nature, as if I could!

 Smiley

I'm glad for all the feedback.

Thank you for your input.

happily yours,

Patty
119  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Experience this morning.... on: August 05, 2002, 15:55:25
Hi Chris,

Wow!  

Your first event makes me smile really really big.

Is it possible that the second experience was a more intense version of the first? It's hard enough to love the first couple you saw, but then to love the arabic couple in that scenario would be even harder.

Part of the lesson?

Just a thought -

Patty
120  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Something I noticed, and questions for you on: August 05, 2002, 15:35:59
As heretical as this sounds, the great thing about my guides is that it is a two-way relationship. We have an agreement, I spend a few seconds looking at my cards, then they show me whatever they wish.

They are free to blow me out of the water Smiley and they have on occasion. I'm actually very open.

I think you have hit one of the nails on the head with looking at life first. One reason I am not TOO bummed about being grounded lately is that so much effort really SHOULD be (and I think is) directed into earthly matters. My kids mostly, my relationships, and my personal development (identifying my ideas and beliefs, living with integrity, etc.) We're here for a reason after all!

But in the past I have, at this point, more or less shelved things for a while. Came at it fresh a few months later with new adventures to show for it, but wasn't really getting 'further' in my adventures, just more of the same.  I don't want to shelve it this time. I want to maintain some degree of focus and see if that will result in some new learning. A new level or something. More clarity, more control. Like the analogy to physical exercise and discipline. You can play a sport sporadically and have fun, or you can work at it with dedication and get better.

Sometimes, like you,  I think it is just a matter of integrating - who knows, in fact I might be projecting and integrating it on another level entirely.  I suspect that at some level I am. I had a dream that I projected only a few nights ago, and I worked on my astral sight, and I went to a distant star system and practiced breathing water. It was exhilarating. Was it a projection? I don't know, it was in the grey zone from ego-patty's perspective.  Maybe that sort of stuff is going on a lot and I don't tune in fully or something.

An interesting side note along these lines - I have been putting out cards from both of my decks for the last week. (My aces/face cards deck as well as my complete standard deck.) New cards every night. The weird thing is that four of the last seven nights if one card was a red ace, the other was too. If one card was a black face card, the other was too. One night, it was a red ace and a red 2. One night, it was a red ace and a black face card. I keep scratching my head in the morning, like "How weird - both cards are so similar again - where are all those 3's through 9's?

There seems to be a message trying to get through. The standard deck is definitely not behaving in a random fashion. I actually flipped through it this morning to make sure that it really was 52 different cards.

Jilola - it sounds like we agree. Especially about the blithering puddle. Smiley

XO



Patty
121  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Something I noticed, and questions for you on: August 05, 2002, 14:26:15
I also meant to mention that - if the meaning of life has anything to do with "God trying to understand itself" or "God trying to experience itself," then there should be plenty of room for everyone's approach.

I try to say this regularly - I am really glad that we all come to this forum from our own unique places.  I feel very fortunate to have found this group.

Patty
122  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Something I noticed, and questions for you on: August 05, 2002, 13:57:57
Hi Ralph,

This is in response to your post, but not directed at you.

Releasing control is often a good thing. Thank you for the reminder. I am very thankful also for the point from the Dalai Llama. I think he's right.  When I make an effort to focus on the good of all, I see a difference in my perspective.

That being said, at some point a few years ago I was spending a lot of time meditating upon my desire to control the scenario. Trying to discern a good 'path' for my journey.  (this is something I continue to do now and then.) I truly feel that for me, the real time zone and verification is what I need to be doing.  It's a long story, and I am not the typical "type" that develops an interest in AP. I am mathematically oriented, went into science, not nearly as artistic as many that I have met in the NDE/OBE circles I have visited. When I looked at the path of my life, it seemed to me that I had been brought to where I was by design. That path included strange phenomena, but throughout the course of my life an intense respect for understanding the strength of the scientific method pervaded. This was from the time I was born and continues to this day. The people and events in my life. The ones who are important to me, they are scientists. It is clear to me to try to balance the 'measuring' approach to the 'freeflow' approach, and not to discard one in favor of the other.

There is a lot of value in being free from defining anything as this or that. But I firmly believe that there is also a lot of value in defining this or that. Some would value a trip to the higher astral realms with all the strange elements that don't translate into words. But no matter how real or how much impact such an experience held, if I was uncertain what the basis of it was, (whether it was a hallucination or 'real')  I would eventually discount it. I know this about myself.

I have seen some people in the past who have claimed to have seen something approaching God in its magnitude. They have said that it was a life changing event, that it took them months to integrate the experience into their lives. I have to say, that I hold considerable skepticism that such an experience could be integrated in a matter of months.  The loss of my daughter took years for me to integrate into my life.  As tragic as such a death is, shouldn't meeting God be a little more profound than the death of one's child?

Did I mention that I am a taurus?

I believe God gave us the strength of our analytical minds for a reason. Monroe made some such realization through his travels as well. I am not trying to prove OBE's are real for anyone but myself. And I am not willing to invest much time in them if they are not anything beyond 'vivid dreams.'  Dreams are valuable, but I learn from my non-lucid dreams. Trying to leave the body or to dream lucidly is physically draining for me. If it represents 'training' for something then I don't mind. If it represents excursions into a 'real' place then I don't mind. But if it represents strange dreams produced by the subconscious that have no external validity, then I don't wish to spend my time on pursuing it (though I would still enjoy the spontaneous events.).

Again, this is not directed at you, Ralph. I guess I maybe have wanted to say some of this stuff for a while and haven't.  I fully agree that one needs to release control. I certainly do release control. Living well for all people is very important to me, and I try to keep that in mind at most times. I try lots of variations, sometimes trying for an astral realm for the sole sake to see if my convictions are misguided. But I don't have any luck there, either.

I just fall asleep lately. I am starting to think that it is mostly a matter of being tired.  I plan to keep at it. Trying different variations, etc.

Thanks again guys, I hope you'll still have me around.

Patty
123  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / what's the deal with hearing music? on: August 05, 2002, 13:31:36
I'm just like Jeff.

Smiley

Somewhere there is a list of how many projectors experience which type of symptom. If you do a search for "Buhlman" and "OBE" (and it was a questionnaire type thing so you could add "questionnaire" or something) you might find it.

Vibrations occur for over half but not all projectors. Among those who have vibrations, they range wildly from a warm feeling to soul ripping jet engine things.

Patty
124  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Something I noticed, and questions for you on: August 05, 2002, 01:16:49
I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I thoroughly enjoy both. If I had choose one over the other, I'd choose the destination.  


Patty
125  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Something I noticed, and questions for you on: August 04, 2002, 23:38:32
I have enjoyed every step of the process. From the anticipation during the day, to setting the cards out and getting the kids to bed, to settling into my relaxation mode, to trance, to awake/asleep line, to exit, and wandering around the house without a body.

It's all enjoyable to me. Even the weird stuff like muscle jerks - seems to be part of the process and I love the process.

It's hitting a wall that I don't enjoy so much Sad

I don't want to go into the subject of emotions, because it seems to me that I am rather a loner here on that one.  It's unlikely that I am going to change my mind on emotions, and I don't want that to be a stumbling block in my interactions with all the wonderful people here. I guess it is something that I feel strongly about, hee hee. But although I value emotions, I think that it is good to express them in a healthy way for all - so I can accept the idea that it might be necessary to set them aside in certain circumstances. And that they might act as a distraction.

I don't know precisely what the message was - it was a negative feeling and the idea of trance. I went with what seemed reasonable, and I am not dissatisfied with the result. I think I will try to keep my agenda out of it for a while, and try to keep a dialog going with my higher self. Maybe things will become clearer.

Patty
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