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1  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / The False-gods of astral pulse on: November 13, 2005, 09:50:38
Abraham,

Thank you for your polite response. There's no need of proofs, as I believe you are right to an extent. Although as a polytheist, I believe the truth can be found in many sources. I wasn't really talking about historical or scientific proofs found in Holy books or historical documents. What I meant was spiritual truth and proofs aren't easily explained concrete things. Heck, I very rarely talk about my own experiences, I feel I don't have the right words to explain them. Maybe if I were Keats instead of the worst poet in the world.

For example, I could tell you about a healing journey I've done on my behalf or someone else's behalf. I could tell you that I or the other person then got well, but you could easily explain that away as coincidence or a placebo effect. I could tell you that I've found strangers who I've had no previous contact with that have had the same experiences when journeying that I've had. You could explain that away as well by thinking all of us were imagining our experiences after reading the same source material. If I told you that there was no source material or that it was so obscure I didn't come across it until afterwards, you could think I was lying or had simply forgotten that I had come across it before.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that spiritual experience, whether astral projection, ecstatic prayer, or anything else in the realm of mysticism, isn't easily proven unless you are experiencing it yourself, and then it's still sometimes difficult to comprehend. It's more akin to poetry, art, and intuition than to science and rationality, although both have a place in religion.
2  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / The False-gods of astral pulse on: November 13, 2005, 08:14:07
Abraham,

Your posts have been interesting and confounding. I have several questions and some commentary regarding them.

How long have you been a Muslim? What sect do you belong to?

I ask this because you aren't very much like the other Muslims I've encountered online. Most of them have been respectful even when debating with others. They also had a tendency towards being well-spoken not telling those they disagreed with they were on crack.

How do these people's personal beliefs and practices impact you personally, and why this forum in particular?

As a Muslim who's apparently not a big fan of mystics, shouldn't you be off somewhere harassing Sufis?

It seems like you're posting to pick a fight. Why else would you demand people give you proof of their spiritual experiences? Honestly, your posts have been confusing. They read like you're an atheist demanding people concretely prove the numinous. As a religious person, you should know better. Can you prove your religion is completely true? Can you prove any spiritual experience you may have had is true? I sincerely doubt it. I also doubt you would believe proof anyone else gave you of their experiences, no matter how strong it was.

I could be wrong about you and hope I am. I find such close-mindedness sad.

I leave you with these words from the Havamal, that I hope you'll gain something from them.

Of his knowledge a man should never boast,
Rather be sparing of speech
When to his house a wiser comes:
Seldom do those who are silent Make mistakes;
mother wit Is ever a faithful friend
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