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551  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 23:36:55
This is also going out globally.
do you think this argument is helping any issues  undecided

Yes. It is.

Perceived weakness is an invitation to aggression.

The inability to face facts and deal with reality is perceived as weakness (as well it should be).


552  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 23:24:40
there just isn't any middle of the road with you is there?  nothing but serious, nose to the grindstone talks. 

Wrong again, PR. Just look at my posts. I have made plenty of AP comments on AP related threads here. Open your eyes and take in the full picture that is right there in front of your nose.

I make frequent posts on non AP threads when frequent lies are posted on non AP threads.


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the bigotry isn't in the content, it's in the context.  really, you showed up on this forum a few weeks ago and it seems that most of your posts are devoted to convincing us that muslims are bad. 

No weaseling out finger-pointer, back up your comments or be revealed as a dishonest so-n-so.
I only refute false comments that are destructive to the civilization that my progeny will grow up in. I am not trying to say any particular religion is bad I am only saying "take off the rose colored glasses!" you neurotic, self loathing losers!


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let me be clear, i don't dispute that islam has some pretty extreme beliefs that effect the world negatively.  however, taken in context with the rest of the atrocities committed by nearly every other culture ever, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

It is a VERY BIG DEAL.
No other atrocities in our lifetimes can reasonably compare. Mature citizens can face it and acknowledge it. Neurotic self loathing losers aren't helping anything with their deep denial games of "Let's Pretend".

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i just don't understand why you're still here arguing with me and stillwater and whoever else.  you've expressed your point quite clearly multiple times.

I am still here because I am interested in AP. I am not just arguing -- I am refuting the bald faced lies of neurotic self loathing losers that are destroying the world my grandchildren will grow up in.
553  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 22:21:09
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Why are the Old Testament verses relics of the past that should not be practiced today, but the verses from the Quoran binding to all Muslims at all times?

OT verses can be viewed as relics of the past because OT verses are a couple thousand years older than the Koran. (Duh) and no Jew or Christian group is flying airplanes into buildings and waging a jihad bent on global conquest in the name of their god.

And they are not binding because of this thing called the "New Covenant".

And they are also not binding because present exegesis says so. That is NOT the case in large parts of Islam. Present exegesis demands bloody jihad for much of the Muslim faithful. Face facts if you can.

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But that is another verse, not the verses in question. I stated we were speaking about the third verse in question, not any other verse in the Bible.

Well, please add a little clarity to your precision and just gimme the one quote you are talking about?

554  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 22:09:55
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all i'm getting out of those posts is muslims are bad.
bigoted much?

You just crossed the line PR. I am calling you on your BS. Quote me exactly and show how it demonstrates bigotry. Do that or be revealed as a dishonest, finger-pointing so-n-so.
There is not a bigoted bone in my body. But I reserve the right to make honest, factual comments that reflect negatively on another group if it is relevant to the recent comments and constructive. Just because it is negative does not mean it is bigoted. Not at all. But I have noticed how neurotic, self loathing Westerners are unable to face the hard facts about what Civilization faces in today's world.

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i have to say, there's a very large muslim population at my school and not once has any of them tried to behead me for not being muslim.

I will do my best to ignore insipid, irrelevant commentary.

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it's easy for you to quote the rhetoric that we've been fed since "the war on terror",

Quote me exactly and show how it matches "the rhetoric that we've been fed". And show how it is not true and how it was just inserted in random and gratuitous fashion.

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how many do you know that actually believe they should be in a holy war against the west?

Quite a few actually. And they thought taking US citizens as hostages would be great fun too. Let me ask you this? How many young muslim men have you lived in close proximity to for over six months? And how many of them were dating South American women and none of them knew you could speak Spanish?
?

Then in the USA there was a recent poll showing something like 24% of young Muslim boys/men (~14-30yrs old) born and raised in the USA admitted that they believed there were justifiable reasons for Jihadi/terrorist action to kill innocent people. That number goes wayyy up outside the USA.

But yes, of course we know that the majority of Muslims are peace loving people who just want to raise their families in peace... that is why so many are desperately trying to flee their homelands.

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it's hard to take you seriously because what you're saying is what the american government has been telling it's people since 2001.  it sounds like propaganda from a wartime nation.   

Again, prove it. My comments are simply refuting the lies of Terrorist apologists and terrorist sympathizers and the destructive mewling and cowing of self loathing, neurotic westerners. My comments were not propaganda but replies to outright falsehoods.


555  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 21:24:56
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How this does not equate to Jihad, or has to do with friends and family, I don't know.

Because honest readers see and know those quotes for what they are. Instructions for that Hebrew leader and how he was to conduct himself in that situation in space in time.

There was no instruction to Christians that can be reasonably interpreted to pursue global conquest of subjugation and conversion as is clearly laid out in Islam. It is blatantly dishonest to make such a claim.

If you can't see the instruction in your own quote limiting the action to family here... I will quote your own post for you;
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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods,...

Sheesh...
556  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 20:51:39
Did you read the third I listed carefully, lol?

In order to carry out that command from God, and be spared his wrath, the Christians and Jews of the world should and must slaughter pretty much everyone on earth, since there are people of different religions in pretty much any city or town you look now.

I am not making excuses for terrorists- you suggest more motives I have never pursued. I am simply furthering my counterargument against the claim someone made earlier that Islam is the only religion whose holy book calls for mass jihad; there are unequivocal calls to jihad in the Bible, and Christians have acted on them too.

You are making excuses in the "oh, everyone does that sort of thing" type claim and that claim is total BS. The third quote you point to says to kill a friend or family who tries to turn you away from your faith. Nothing about GLOBAL Jihad.

I read your Bible quotes and there is nothing that commands Jihad. NOTHING.

you are just making stuff up. Do you have no integrity?

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...the Christians and Jews of the world should and must slaughter pretty much everyone on earth


This is pure baloney and no Christians or Jews have acted in Jihadi fashion.

Re: the Crusades... No no one mentioned it but I am glad someone did because this is another lie that the Terrorist sympathizers promulgate to no end.

The Crusades were not any kind of Jihad meant to subjugate the Infidels. They were a completely justified act of self defense. They were not a Holy war of Conquest but a plain and simple counter attack against marauding Islamic armies sweeping across Europe. When the Pope called for the Crusades the Brutal, violent Islamic war of aggressive expansion had moved from Arabia across southern Asia, to India, across North Africa, through Spain, into France, through most of Eastern Europe, Sicily and even into parts of Italy. The Crusades re-captured Jerusalem and parts of Anatolia and stopped there. Get it?! Not even CLOSE to the Muslim Jihad of global conquest.

And it worked great. Muslim expansion was stopped dead in its tracks. Western civilization owes the Pope a huge debt of gratitude for his courage and wisdom. Otherwise women in Europe today would be walking around in Burkas. (That is, the ones who hadn't been stoned to death for adultery, or the crime of being raped).

557  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Strange "voices" on: May 13, 2011, 20:25:02
Similar to your hearing voices from out of nowhere while awake, after meditating the other day I heard music (sort of like New Age sitar) for 5 minutes and I kept walking around the house to see where it was coming from until I plugged my ears and realized it was coming from my inside my head! Fascinating.

Yeah, I remember hearing the flute playing as I got up one morning. I told my wife and she was glad because she had heard 'music' quite a few times when I heard nothing. She punched me in the arm once when I said I couldn't hear it and she yelled, "It's LOUD!"...   cheesy cheesy

There are meditation groups in India that can tell you what the different sounds mean in terms of the state of Consciousness one is tuning into when hearing various sounds. They claim to have it all mapped out. Many sounds extend from wayyyy beyond the Astral realm.
558  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 13:44:05
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These are the closest thing to the inciting of Jihad you will ever see, and they are in the Bible.

Yes, there are all sorts of exhortations to violence in the OLD TESTAMENT. But they are nothing compared to the commands of another holy book which REQUIRES all the faithful to wage Jihad for the expressed purpose of subjugating the entire world under their rule. There is no Christian Command to conquer the world.

Why do people see such a desperate need to make excuses for the terrorists today? and try to make it look like they just like everyone else when it is obvious that they are very different and that this is a very different animal we are dealing with.

Blowing up an empty abortion clinic in the middle of night did not cause terror.

And I do not believe the claims that anyone was terrorized by a lone, murdering gunman who shot one abortionist. From what I can see there was not even a blip in the abortion rate as a result.

These rare acts from decades past are put up as sort of, "see, we do it too" argument and it is completely ridiculous.

 There is no valid comparison to Jihadis flying airplanes into buildings and killing thousands of innocent people. There is no comparison to a culture that makes parents think it is a good thing to strap bombs around their own children and send them into a restaurant or bus to blow up innocent people. There is no equivalent to a culture that celebrates and dances in the streets when terrorists climb over a wall in the middle of the night and stab a random family, including plunging knives into the bodies of infants! There is nothing else remotely like a culture that makes men think it is okay to throw battery acid on the faces of little schoolgirls... because they were going to school. On and on and on....

Read the link to the religionofpeace site given earlier and get a clue.

They are NOT just like us.


559  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 00:46:30
Edited for coherence.
 I agree, and I am not saying (or said) that they were terrorists for being christian.  I am saying that whoever was on the other side would consider the bombs a terrorist act, and both sides were christian.
I never said that christians were some sort of terrorist movement, or any such thing.
In fact, terrorism doesn't imply religious persuasion, terrorism is any act designed to scare people in general for a particular cause.  For example, the FALN are considered terrorists in Spain and have nothing to do with religion.


I don't think anyone here has said there is a 'religion' component required to qualify as "Terrorism".

TARGETING innocents is a requirement imho.
(Instilling fear in a community for whatever end result desired, political or otherwise is already commonly accepted as part of the "terrorism" definition -- which is still in flux, I think -- the terrorist sympathizers are trying to broaden it to "anytime innocents are killed" in order to muddy the waters).

Blowing up a couple abortion clinics in the middle of the night does not instill terror in a community and it is NOT terrorism.
560  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 00:26:39
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So what you're saying is that anyone going to a Planned Parenthood clinic to get some other service in the eighties are not innocent, therefore don't count as people?  (Last I heard vandalism is about property, not people.)

I edited my comment for clarity. The Abortion clinics were bombed when they were empty in the middle of the night. No people were targeted. THAT was NOT terrorism.
561  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 13, 2011, 00:05:17
Are there many Christian terrorists? I don't hear about anyone blowing things up in the name of Jesus.

There are no Christian Terrorists blowing "people" up in the name of Jesus.
562  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 12, 2011, 23:58:50
In the US, they blow up Planned Parenthood clinics, even if they're not performing abortions at the time.
If you live in Ireland, you may consider the 'opposite' side of the Protestant/Catholic divide a terrorist, especially when they blow things up.


Blowing up an empty planned parenthood clinic in the middle of the night (what?... 30 years ago? - get real....) is NOT Terrorism. That is vandalism. Terrorism targets innocent people to be killed.

Ireland was a political movement trying to gain political freedom from Great Britain. It was NOT an attempt to kill infidels for the sake of terrorizing infidels. It was a political act of political war for political freedom. No IRA terrorist ever shouted "Ave Maria!" or "Praise Jesus" as he set off a bomb.
563  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Was Jesus Gay? on: May 12, 2011, 23:50:03
Gnostics were not a homogenous group, which is part of the reason they didn't win in the canon when it came time for officialdom.
Some groups considered women 'more' important than males, and had women priests, which did do all the exercises and meditations and 'gnosis' experiences, while others didn't.  Some reached for the sublime, and others clung to the mythology that was more negative than positive.
Some groups considered women 'separate' or 'inferior' but those were the more 'greek', which considered women inferior for cultural, and not religious reasons.
It's interesting to note that one of the reasons 'Orthodox Christianity' (Irenaus style) won, was because the Gnostics had women leading the studies, and this was not ok with them.

I think the main reason that Orthodoxy prevailed was because it appealed to the masses. It was a simple matter to gain eternal salvation and the doctrine was easy to understand. Gnosticism on the other hand was obtuse, bordering on completely unintelligible and salvation was all but completely out of reach for the typical Aspirant. Even just the intermediate levels of Gnostic study and practice were beyond what most could grasp and maybe not even one in a thousand could make significant progress at the advanced stages.
 I do not recall reading anywhere that women leading the studies had anything at all to do with the rejection of Gnosticism.

Another strong point for Orthodoxy was the willingness of the faithful to die for their belief. That's real dedication. The Gnostic personality was more likely to just say "whatever" and go along.
564  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 12, 2011, 21:59:01
I believe in the case of a blind person being able to see again when OBE, we find after a little digging that they were not blind from birth. They might have lost the vision at a young age and forgotten what it was like but the subconscious carries the memory clearly.

I knew a man who was blind from birth who said he did not see when he was OBE but that he had a knowingness associated with encounters in the phase.
565  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 12, 2011, 17:57:26
It might be a sort of a filter in some ways but it is more than just that. Summerlander had another aspect of its purpose as a receiver that oscillates according to waves or vibration, like a radio or TV set. But it is limited and cannot reproduce even closely, in some cases, what the exteriorised Self may be experiencing.

And this is not something that I consider a matter of opinion like "which is better, pistachios or cashews?"

Some of this discussion seems like people talking about electricity and being of the opinion that it comes from fireflies. That falls outside the realm of opinion. A proper understanding of the human form, function, sense receptors, cognitive features, etc. and its relation to the eternal Self can be instructive in these matters.
566  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 12, 2011, 15:38:26
When you die will you not be able to see anymore? Will colour cease to exist?

Obviosuly the brain has a role in the whole operation(pattern recognition and what not) but it just doesnt seem to me like a physical thing could "see".

Yes. Once the Self separates and distances Itself from this physical earth reality completely enough.

I have a friend who is color blind. Completely. The world is literally black and white and shades of gray to him. That does not mean that there is no varying degree of wavelengths to the light hitting the rods and cones of his eyes. That data is just not propagated along his optic nerve.

There are physical colors that exist beyond what the physical human eye can perceive but other animals see them fine.

There are no photons in the Astral but there is an energetic aspect of Consciousness that our brain will process as a light and color correlation.

The eternal Self can have an experience in consciousness that It formulates as "light" in order to communicate the experience to the physical human waking awareness but it is not quite the same thing. It is possible to grasp the essence of a thing through direct perception without dumbing it all down to a collection of base humanoid sense characteristics.
567  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Was Jesus Gay? on: May 12, 2011, 15:09:27
Jesus wasn't a gay cause he had a thing for Mary and he wanted her to go to heaven from what this verse is saying.

"Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

but then again ALL MALES go to heaven >_> unless Jesus likes tomboys wich may explain this verse. If anything it sounds like Simon and peter are gay lol...

Simon Peter was one person, sorta like 'Billy Bob'. You have to have at least a small understanding of Greek Gnosticism in order to make sense of the scriptures. The practices involved a kundalini exercise which required testicles. This left women out of the picture. However an accomplished Master would know how to do a 'workaround'.

If anyone is interested PM me and I could recommend some outside resources (along with caveats).
568  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 12, 2011, 02:37:13
I disagree.

The seeing is obviously a human artifact and it is the eye that 'sees' and the brain that processes the image data.

In certain realms I meet entities that appear to me as balls of 'light' and I am pretty sure that they do not perceive me as a human form. Physical, planet earth forms are NOT what the eternal Self is naturally attuned to. Simple direct perception is the modus operandi there and the image data that is processed from what the eye sees and the brain processes is unnatural to the eternal Self. What we call 'seeing' is not a function or process of the eternal Self. OBE excursions are only processed and retrieved as planet earth image type recall because that is what the corporeal form relates to.

EDIT; This is kinda interesting. Feeling is another one of the senses like seeing and most would readily admit it is the fingers or skin or whatever that is doing the feeling but I doubt anyone would even suggest that the brain does the feeling. It is the ears that hear and the tongue that tastes, etc.

Again, the 'seeing' twist that people attach to the Self is unique but more pervasive than common sense would allow so  I think some pseudo-teacher out there must have thrown this stumbling block out at some point and it seems to have stuck.
569  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 12, 2011, 01:59:45
You are doing the seeing. The same thing as in the physical. Eyes do not see. Does a camera see? Does a brain see? Can a brain invent something as wonderfull as colour?

ummm... I don't think it is the same. Eyes DO see. The brain processes the data that the retina passes to it along the optic nerve. Color, varying wavelengths of light, existed long before the human eye evolved.

Who is teaching this idea that the "seeing" is done by the "I" or inner Being? This is very misleading.

The incorporeal Self perceives energy, intent, etc. and the brain only processes it as a 'visual' or other familiar sensory event in order to translate it to a language the earthly human is familiar with.
570  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 11, 2011, 22:49:24
 I wonder about that too, Summer. I mean... if I am OBE I am not using physical eyes so what is doing the seeing? There are no photons striking a retina. I must be translating 'energy' states into something recognizable to my brain. After one of Castaneda's inner journeys Don Juan asked Carlos what he had seen and Carlos replied, "you were there - didn't you see it?" Don Juan replied to the student, "I only see 'lines of intent'... I stopped 'seeing' they way you do a long time ago".
571  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 11, 2011, 03:29:52
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The only difference is the lack of what I call a "waking awareness".

That would be like lacking a cup of milk in the muffin mix.

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I've actually never experienced this "cloudy" or "impaired" vision that people talk about.  My dreams, when I'm actively experiencing them as they're happening, are always clear, just like my waking physical life right now.

We weren't talking about dreams... but full conscious OBE. Many strong and promising young projectors experience this partial blindness upon projecting into the "PHASE".
572  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Was Jesus Gay? on: May 11, 2011, 03:04:55
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Also that he lived in India and did not die on the cross.

Yeah, I heard that one too.

"Jesus Died in Kashmir" by A. Faber Kaiser (sp?)

knock yersef out

...
573  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Was Jesus Gay? on: May 11, 2011, 00:17:23
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maybe someone just made it up?

Made what up?

(but yeah, people make stuff up all the time).

574  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Strange "voices" on: May 10, 2011, 19:25:41
Back before I started 'trying' to go OBE I would sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and as I was drifting in and out of sleep I would hear voices in the next room. Nothing specific, just like a low, mumbling murmur of voices. I would think someone had left the TV on and just go back to sleep. One night it was very distinct and persistent so I got up and went out to the hallway to turn the TV off and when I got out there the noise stopped.
It was a little freaky.
575  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 10, 2011, 19:19:06
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If you're talking to me, I believe that any experience that doesn't happen while you're wide awake here in this physical reality is a non-physical experience (aka: "projection").

That would basically make any typical dream a "projection".

I think "wide awake" is even a debatable condition. It is all a continuum and those who are making a successful effort to wake up will often experience a wide range of lucidity throughout the day and night. Even full conscious OBE can be cloudy with impaired or even no vision.

But the question is, "What kind of a person is an astral projector?". Taking a broad sweeping glance across the field of participants reveals a wide range of 'types' experiencing the OBE state. But I think it is narrowed down quite a bit if we define it as those who are consciously making the effort to project and it is narrowed down MUCH further if we require at least once monthly success. Then the characteristics of "curious" along with "persistent" as well as "goal oriented" begin to emerge as a commonality.
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