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576  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: More than Dreaming?? on: May 10, 2011, 18:55:59
1.) are there different levels of lucid dreaming?
2.) can you stay out as long as you want? (I couldn't...)

To answer the questions; 1. Yes  2. No

It is the same as the so called, "waking state". There are definitely different and widely varying degrees of lucidity.

Most people are merely sleepwalking through each and every day. A large percentage of humanity is so deeply asleep they do not even recall a single dream over the course of many years.

There are those who recognize they are dreaming during a dream yet still take no control over the direction things go from there. Then there are those who direct the dream in a very crisp and clear fashion. Then there are those who highly Aware and go from LD directly into full conscious OBE with strong intent and discipline.
577  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Was Jesus Gay? on: May 10, 2011, 17:19:14
It's also a sort of lazy speculation...


And just fyi;

People keep claiming that no one mentioned Jesus outside the Christian scriptures but that is not true. Two almost contemporary writers DID mention Jesus. Josephus and Tacitus (? I think it was).

The Dead Sea Scrolls mention several characters that comport with the narrative we have. "The Teacher of Righteousness" was in opposition to some other guy who was leading the people astray, etc.

One reason Jesus' life followed a set script?... well, he did say often that he was doing 'such n such' in order to fulfill the prophecy so that might explain some of that.

There were words in both Koine Greek and Aramaic to identify gay behavior. None of those were ever used to describe Jesus. Even the Gnostic writings which ran from mundane to ozone layer type content never mentioned such a thing. Referencing vague descriptions of mystical ceremonies is grasping at straws.

578  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Astral Projection Device on: May 10, 2011, 04:13:38
LOL! It's all bovine excrement! cheesy


sounds like a mantra.
579  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Importance of a dream diary on: May 09, 2011, 22:44:14
I started a dream journal a few weeks ago and it still only has one entry in it.  Since I've started paying more attention to dream recall, I have lost the ability to remember any of them. 

The decrease in any memory is unusual, I think. That is indicating a different problem at work.

I suggest trying to write in the journal each morning. Something like, "I remember my dreams more and more with each passing day".

This get the mind over the laziness hump by writing something each morning regardless of dream recall content. Once the mind gets the idea that you are serious about this discipline the recall of dream sequences usually starts to improve within a few days.
580  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Astral Projection Device on: May 09, 2011, 22:27:16
I really want to know how many people took  the roller coaster ride with his crappy devices 300$ is really expensive ticket for a roller coaster Cheesy:D:D

The amazing thing is how effective the placebo effect can be.

They even get testimonials;

"oh wow! I really had an amazing Lucid dream the first night I slept with this thing on!"


"A week after I started wearing this Power Prosperity Amulet I got a phone call from my new boss telling me I just got my dream job!"

and so on....

581  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Astral Projection Device on: May 09, 2011, 16:01:02
I remember when he made those amulets out watch quartz and a little copper wire and charged about $40.00 for them. They sold well so he tried Silver wire and fancier mounts for the quartz housing and charged $300.

If you read the sales pitch closely he comes right out and admits, "this device doesn't really do anything".

I am not kidding.

582  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 08, 2011, 23:17:58
I like Folksy stuff, like the Fleet foxes or Beirut, but I normally go for a sound that is based in the mid 70's otherwise (Elton Jon, early Springsteen, King Crimson, Steely Dan, Neil Young, The Doors, etc).

Good selection there.

King Crimson, heh. Pandora introduced me to that group when it saw my first picks. I was strangely attracted to them too.

For those who need to rock a little harder the hardest I can serve up is the better effort from Jethro Tull;

583  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Punching people in dreams? on: May 08, 2011, 16:22:31
Stookie's comment is closest, so far, I think.

It is a reflection of a feeling of impotence. Effort being made is not moving one any closer to the goal. Good intentions and well motivated actions seem to go awry. A solution is to change one's habit patterns a little and try a new approach. Pick a short term achievable goal and do what it takes to make it manifest.

Once we get good at this the dream state becomes the opposite. A young man might find himself wielding an automatic weapon and firing at people and the degree to which the targets are being destroyed there is a reflection of one's self image of strength and power.

I knew one young man who came to me for a dream interpretation that had him very worried. He was concerned that he might be turning into to some kind of a mass murderer. I asked him if he had recently been through an ordeal or had done well in some sort of test. His face lit up and a calm look of self satisfaction spread across his face. His companion was nodding vigorously. I told him  not to worry and it was just his subconscious crowing a little. Both were very relieved.

Now the other condition of the thalamus clamp down mentioned here plays into this too. Trying to move underwater is often part of the dream image presented when one is transitioning to a Lucid Dream state or even an outright OBE. It is a sign that waking efforts and practices are at least helping with a little progress. The fighting scenario combined is just the dream state doing double duty - high efficiency in self training -- multi-tasking. Trying to run or swing punches underwater would be a little of both of the elements I've mentioned here.

These problems are all good problems to have.

Well done, people.

584  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: so first rule of AP. you dont talk about ap hahah on: May 08, 2011, 15:24:29
As long as there is a way of monitoring the quality control federally, without relying on federal beuracracy to actually do the job itself, I would be all for that.

This sort of thing needs to be done basically across the board with the entire Federal bureaucracy. Look at those incompetent goofs in the SEC! They Audited the Bernie Maddof Hedge Fund. They sent in a TEAM of accountants and they stayed resident for about a week going over the books. They were right there on the premises!! A week later they walk out handing Bernie a clean bill of health and their Seal of Approval. About six months later the whole sheebang goes belly up. What a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

And the tyrannical Dems think the solution is to INCREASE Federal Oversight! What a joke. It makes no sense at all.

When real work needs to be done they need to sub-contract it out to private firms. Moodys or one of the other rating services could have smelled a rat in a few hours of looking over the books and double checking actual holdings.
585  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: so first rule of AP. you dont talk about ap hahah on: May 08, 2011, 03:59:52
None of the Democrats really liked the concept of Homeland Security, yet with Obama now in office, there is very little talk of repealling it; political changes are long and laborious, unfortunately.

That's because the fact is that the Dems created it. They only acted like they hated it when it looked like it would hurt Bush. They are experts at manipulating the press and the beliefs of the gullible masses.

The Patriot act was just a minor edit (to modernize to account for computer and internet and cell phone technology shifts) of the Clinton Anti-Terrorism act passed during the 5th year of his presidency, I think. Also the Partriot Act was a COMPLETELY Bipartisan effort in the House that was nearly complete before Bush was even sworn in. 9/11 merely fast tracked the debate and vote.

586  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Needing OBE Binarual beats assistance... on: May 08, 2011, 03:49:29
There's nothing special really.

Alone, a Binaural Beat won't do anything special for you.
Just do your usual exercise/method/technique while listening to it.

I think a well directed Binaural regimen could be instructive. I know one of the TMI CDs -- Condition B? I think it was?... like a freekin roller coaster ride in my head! Cool experience.

I use them with noise canceling headphones to drown out house noise when I am doing mind/consciousness exercises.
587  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 08, 2011, 03:20:35
If pressed to think of a war that best meets the standards that would ethicly dictate when we should be involved, I would choose the Sudan genocides. Here is an example of a mass killing of 400,000 or more of an ethnic group by un-resisted agressors, and we have provided the most passive and impotent assistence imaginable.

Then the Iraq war would qualify as an ethical war. Saddam murdered 400,000 of his own people by some estimates and the killing was ongoing. More mass graves continue to be found. Who knows how high this number may rise?
588  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Needing OBE Binarual beats assistance... on: May 08, 2011, 02:27:34
I have used them on a regular basis for years. I rarely project while they are playing but have projected several times within seconds of them ending.

I am experienced with RBruce, WBuhlman, TMI, etc.

What is your situation?
589  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: so first rule of AP. you dont talk about ap hahah on: May 08, 2011, 02:24:34

i want to like you so bad, i really do.  you're obviously intelligent and i appreciate that.

i have my bachelors (in the mail as we speak) in psychology and i can tell you from first hand experience (both as a patient in drug rehab for two years and as a counselor and intern at medical facilities for the past 4 years) that you are really missing the big picture.  yes, scientific studies require statistical significance, this is true.  the science isn't bad, the scope of vision as to what gets researched is bad.  beyond that, there is the proverbial black list effect.  if your research isn't seen as "socially acceptable" or capable of providing more money to the right people, then your research doesn't get published.  peer-review my butt, the editor of medical journals decides who gets published and who doesn't, and if they don't like your research, they tell all of their contacts at every other journal not to publish you and you get black listed.  you can't do research unless you get funding and you only get funding if you research is within orthodox parameters.  bottom line.

beyond that, in practice, the only mental health treatments that get supported are the ones that make money.  do you really think that the reason psychology and psychiatry prescribe more medications than ever before is because the meds really work!?  bullcrap.  it''s like that because that's where the money is.  and the government has EVERYTHING to do with mental health.  Who do you think approves the medications that are being shoved down people's throats with little to no concern for the side effects?  the FDA, ie, the government.  who control public mental health facilities?  the government.  even the private facilities abide by government sanctions and laws.  there is NOTHING in the USA that the government doesn't have their hands in. 

The Federal Government is NOT the only source of funding. Folks getting stuck in that mindset is a big part of the problem. That is why I suggested starting your own operation if you are serious. Look at L Ron Hubbard.  wink

And once again, why did you say, " and the government has EVERYTHING to do with mental health."? oh...
I guess I phrased that badly. I did NOT mean to say the government had nothing to do with it in actual practice. My point is that mental health is not the Federal govt's job.
That doesn't mean the Feds aren't doing all sorts of things wayyy outside their job description. Personally I think the FDA needs to be shut down and the job can be turned over to some sort of Underwriter's Laboratory type outfit. Get twice the performance for half the price.
590  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 08, 2011, 01:29:15
So while you did not mention a certain conflict, the structure of your argument necessarily made it implicit.

No, it didn't. I had clearly made a general reference to previous 'wars' (note the plural).
You just made a bad assumption.

As far as unnecessary wars go, why don't you just ask me?
But "necessary" may be the wrong word for evaluating the act of war because I think the data required to arrive at that conclusion is usually not available. Maybe you could give an example of a 'necessary' war and explain how you arrived at that conclusion.
591  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: so first rule of AP. you dont talk about ap hahah on: May 07, 2011, 22:50:05
Modern scientific method in the medical field requires statistical significance and reliable repeatability.

There is nothing to stop anyone from starting The New Age Mumbo-Jumbo Clinic for Personality Disorder Research. And there are drugless mental training therapies in development and even in practice for milder cases. Just offhand I do not see how AP could help at all in such a case. Part of Conscious AP is consciously and knowingly and willingly exploring altered states while these poor souls are seriously lacking in those necessary attributes.

Reagan?! How is a guy who hasn't been president for over 20 years somehow relevant to a discussion about contemporary treatment options? What did Clinton do to rectify the action? Nothing. And it isn't even a back burner issue for the present president. Why not complain about them? Besides, when you get right down to it, what does the FEDERAL govt have to do with Mental Health? Nothing, that's what. The State Mental Hospital is a better target for your complaints. I suggest you take the matter up with them. But then that would require personal effort and is much more demanding then tossing out complaints about dead presidents.
592  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 22:15:42
I'm sorry that my innate response is to avoid violence at all costs.

That doesn't make me a "deep denial pacifist" and I resent you constantly resorting to calling me that.

I'm not a pacifist.  I'm compassionate and recognize everyone's right to life, even if they don't agree with my ideology.  Everyone has a personal history and unique sets of circumstances that create the person they are.   Those psychopaths you mention, they have personal history that led them to that point, they don't have to be inherently evil.  Maybe they're mentally ill and never received proper treatment?


I tried to make amends earlier, we aren't going to agree and we're just going in circles.  Seriously, let's stop and be friends. 

If your "innate response is to avoid violence at all costs" then it is a pretty safe guess that you are very close to being a pacifist. "At all costs"... hmmm, that cost gets very high, very fast.

I never called you a deep denial pacifist. But if the shoe fits....

You may not be a pacifist but much of what you say indicates that you are.

I'm compassionate too and recognize everyone's right to life too, until they turn into homicidal psychopathic terrorists, at which point they forfeit that right.

Everyone has a history. That is no excuse to turn into a homicidal psychopath. For every terrorist out there there are a hundred people with a nearly identical history that chose a decent lifestyle. Those who make excuses for the criminals only enable them further. I suspect that that is very bad karma (and not very compassionate).

593  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 21:19:35
I'm really trying to keep my cool, but it's people like you that make war inevitable.

Your first reaction to a threatening situation is to kill, to retaliate.

The people that you keep referencing as terrorists are not terrorists.  They are EXACTLY like you.  We instigated, they are defending themselves.  End of story.

And if we are naturally inclined to war, how is the end scenario anything but total annihilation? 

Please keep your cool, since too much denial about the reality of inevitable conflict could drive one into the "Ned Flanders' Syndrome".

Actually it is people like me that prevent war.

Not one thing that I have said indicates that my first reaction in a threatening situation is to kill.

Those who fit the definition of "terrorist" really are terrorists. Deep Denial pacifists may not be able to accept this but that does not change the facts.

Humanity has pretty much done little other than make war. Peace is actually an anomaly. Yet we are still here in ever increasing numbers, despite almost nonstop war. Total annihilation would actually be counter inuitive at this point.
594  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 19:21:06
If war is perpetual and inevitable, the only logic end it total annihilation, simple as that.  So, just cut to the chase.

The commonality between you and the "terrorists" (by the way, to them, you are the terrorist), is that you both seem to believe that killing eachother is the only solution to our discrepancies.  That's a logical conclusion to me.  But I'm coming from a perspective of total non-violence, not because I'm a pacifist hippie, I am just following the old adage "be the change you want to see" and ensuring that my personal environment is a "peaceful" one (as you suggested).   

Please explain how, "the only logic end it total annihilation". I don't think that is true.

Terrorism is the intentional targeting of civilians and innocents and I do not do that. People who climb over village walls and stab a random family to death in the middle of the night, including infants, are terrorists. People who fly airplanes into buildings are terrorists. People who kill a man who would do such things are simply fighting back in self defense. If the terrorist hides behind his wife and they both get killed -- that does not make the self-defender a terrorist. If the wife knew her husband was a psychopathic terrorist and went along with it she is not so innocent.

You are free to be all the change you want to be. But pacifist's die an early death. If you are okay with that, that's your business. But those who force others to be pacifists by law and policy are tyrannically forcing suicidal behavior on an entire community and that is really bad karma.
595  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 19:10:49
Stillwater, nearly every reply you made to my quotes was a response to something I never said. I think I mentioned pacifism twice, because your comments sounded like pacifism. But I didn't want to put words in your mouth so I asked you directly, out of courtesy, twice -- and you still won't give a direct answer. Why do you say "I am advocating not getting involved in unecessary wars"? No one is advocating for such insanity. Why advocate against something no one has said?

And I wasn't "speaking so adamantly about propaganda". I merely mentioned that is what it was when I saw you present it. Please reply honestly to what I say and not a gross exaggeration.

I don't know who these shadow pacifists are who are curiously enough out to get you.

There you go again. I never said anything about any pacifists out to get me. Just fyi - I have noticed that people who reply to something no one has said are talking to themselves about what is bouncing around in their own heads. Now the question arises, "Who are *you* afraid of"?

The New York Times!?  cheesy cheesy cheesy
They are the biggest Left wing-nut, phony, yellow journalistic rag in the country.

Saying that these wars were not as bad as Vietnam or any other recent conflict is not an argument sufficient to justify them.

There you go again. I did not say that these wars were not as bad as Vietnam or any other recent conflict and I presented no such argument to justify them. I replied to your reported numbers showing extremely low casualty rates. Please reply to what I actually said. Your AIDS/Ebola analogy applies to nothing I have said here.

Civilian casualties are usually going to be high whenever combatants hide behind their women and children after staging an attack. These cowards bring that sort of karma upon themselves and their families by their own choice.

596  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 17:01:50
so why wait?  if the inevitability is that war is never-ending for us, lets just blow everyone up right now and save ourselves the trouble.  you and the "terrorists" must have the same holy books of ideology.


Sheesh! I did not say "everything blowing up" was inevitable.

How can you extrapolate to "you and the "terrorists" must have the same holy books of ideology" from anything I said? Logically you can't.

I said conflict is inevitable because it is built in to the system. All in the physical universe is a balance of opposing forces, positive vs negative. The negative is not going to go away just because someone wrote a song about it not being real. It IS real and a Deep Denial La-La attitude is not going to make it go away. That is not to say that one can't create micro-spaces of peace in their immediate surroundings. And enlightened societies can minimize negativity in a closed system -- for a period of time.
597  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 15:46:15
Where does propaganda enter into this? Every 170th soldier that has ever served in the Iraqi and Afghan wars has been killed there(1.3 million have served, 7600 have died)[...]. These are very cold facts. Propaganda implies incendiary statements with clear intended bias to persuade; presenting the very figures the government has given us can hardly be considered propagand against the government.
It was a joke, keeping in mind the discussion it was contextual to. But that does still does not mean that 60-year-old men should be so capricious with the lives of so many soldiers and civilians, regardless of who they are.

Wow. your own propaganda disproves your own final statement. (Note: propaganda does not necessarily imply anything incendiary, just one-sided). I do not believe the 'civilian casualty' numbers repeated by pacifists.

Every 170th soldier dies? That's like half a percent. I think relative to past wars that is almost zero. Ipso facto, the Congress providing the soldier with the best training and equipment pays off in lower casualty rates. Nothing capricious about that.

Pacifism is tantamount to suicide.

The invasion of Aghanistan was not only COMPLETELY justified but probably necessary. Harboring a terrorist who flies airplanes into buildings is a bad thing to do and if those who do so suffer a karmic backlash... well, so be it. That's the way things are.

There are those who look within in order to find truth and those who turn within as an escape. The truth seekers learn and realize the true nature of planet earth and recognize the inevitability of war. Conflict is built-in to the system.

598  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What kind of a person is an astral projector? on: May 07, 2011, 02:32:45
I personally wouldnt say everyone projects.
The only trait I can think of that you could probably apply to all projectors is curiosity.

Well said.

and that last thought is pure genius.

599  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 02:18:58
Hey ruddy, can you ever have a debate without being so aggressive?  cheesy

I like to kick it up a notch.
(but I always keep it civil)

I have no patience for the "let's pretend the ignoratti actually have a valid viewpoint" crew.
(they are destroying Western Civilization)

There really is such a thing as a "fact"

There really is something called truth.
(It is NOT all just a matter of opinion)

Time to man up.

600  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 07, 2011, 01:40:46
"Do you have any idea how america treats the rest of the world?"


Better than any other World Power in the history of the world.

that simple.

If you have even half a clue you must admit that that much is blatantly, obviously true. Face facts. I know that the clueless can't deal with this reality but I am (hopefully) not dealing with the totally clueless here.

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