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251  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Differences on: February 19, 2008, 10:58:25
Hi interception

Quote from: interception
So in very simple terms, one answer would be: if these labelled experiences overlap so much as they seem to be doing, and you often cannot tell them apart, then there's no real solid difference between them. Now is there? 

It is all just human labels and degrees of experience.

This is the conclusion I am coming to.  I've had 4 years worth of experiences and find that I am so far away from all the books/discussions/theories/beliefs that are abound. 

I do understand that if a book is going to be published, it will need to have descriptions and adventure and whatnot, and so to some extent the author will have to use some sort of structure to the experiences.  However, they don't seem to let you know about the overlapping, or give you signposts as to where you are exactly.  It's all very wishy-washy and of course, readers come along and think it's great and have an experience which they reckon might be a 'higher plane' experience because they heard singing (and so assumed they were angels), and lo and behold these structures are solidified by more and more people.

And yet, I've done the opposite.  I've looked at my experiences as they are, no fluff, no assumptions, no negatives, no positives, just as they are.

Sadly, my conclusion is that most authors and others take on beliefs and assumptions galore, and we find ourselves embroiled in mystical terminology that is quite frankly misleading and confusing.  I also think many authors, whilst not lying as such, are economical with the truth when describing their experiences.  I believe they miss out parts that don't make sense, or don't fit with the general 'flow' of the experience.

I guess if I wrote a book about my experiences, no-one would publish it.  It would simply be full of experiences with no meanings, no "this means that and therefore the other".  No structure, no labels.

I wonder whether I will take these labels on board in the future.  I can't see it somehow.

Sarah
252  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Differences on: February 19, 2008, 10:14:52
Hi Greytraveller  smiley

Quote from: Greytraveller
An out of body experience is when a person is fully aware of their consciousness being separate and apart from their physical body.

I disagree with this.  An out of body experience is just that.  An experience of being out of your body.  Where did you get this explanation from?  Specifically about having to be fully aware?

Non-lucid dreams are OBEs by their very nature.  The fact that we don't realise at the time is neither here nor there, in my opinion.

Quote from: Greytraveller
Of course there are different types of OBEs. There are ethereal/etheric/RTZ projections. There are astral projections. There are projections to alternate/parallel universes. There are projections to higher dimensions and/or higher planes.

This is what I'm getting at.  I don't want you to tell me that there are x-amount of types of projections - I hear it all the time.  I want you to tell me how you know the difference between them, when you are there.

What is the difference between projecting to an alternate universe and a higher dimension/plane?  What is the difference between an astral projection and a projection to a parallel universe?  When you have an experience, what do you deem it to be...and more importantly what tell-tale signs of the experience led you to that label?

Quote from: Greytraveller
All of the above are OBEs yet IMO all involve a clear conscious separation of the astral/ethereal body-consciousness from the physical body.

What's your take on Phasing where there is no separation from the physical?  When your mind seems to shift consciousness seamlessly and easily from the physical to 'somewhere else'?  Rather like moving the switch on a radio to change frequencies.  No separation.  No struggling out of the physical, no creating a second body.

Quote from: Greytraveller
Lucid dreams are experiences where the dreamer MAY be out of body yet is still only aware of the dreamscape. Of course this leaves open the possibility that much of the dreamscape in a lucid dream is Not created by the dreamer and therefore does have an outside objective existence. Whether or nor this is the case in a lucid dream the dreamer has not quite made the (quantum?) jump up in consciousness and therefore is not fully aware of it- meaning that the dreamer still perceives the experience as occuring in only a dreamscape.

Yikes that's confusing.  So the dreamscape might be self-created or not? 

How do you know that astral projection generally isn't self-created?  As in parallel universes, higher planes etc.?

Quote from: Greytraveller
And yes there is a HUGE area of overlap and it can all get quite confusing.

Quite.  grin

Quote from: Greytraveller
This happens to me ALL the time and at times nobody is more confused by the overlapping Grey area of consciousness than I.

I think you'll find there are a few that are as confused as you!!  cheesy

Thank you for responding.

Sarah
253  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Differences on: February 19, 2008, 09:58:09
From reading some books by Carlos Castenada, mainly "The Art of Dreaming,"

Hi Zipppy

I read that book a while ago.  The trouble is you'd have to be pointing your finger at everything you came across.

I was looking for others' direct experience, rather than what they have read in a book. 

But thank you for responding.  smiley

Sarah
254  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Have you seen this? on: February 18, 2008, 10:37:03
369

Why?  What is it?

Sarah
255  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I have a question on: February 18, 2008, 10:35:43
You are making assumptions about the spirit leaving the physical when projecting. 

No-one actually knows for certain what happens during projection.  There are theories abound.  One I lean towards (although haven't actually taken as a belief) is that there is no separation - we merely have the sensation of separation.  Because we are focusing our consciousness somewhere other than the physical, our brain carries out an 'action' to correspond, therefore it gives us the feeling that we are leaving the body.

Another theory is that our consciousness (I deliberately use the word 'consciousness' over spirit as it has less attachments to beliefs) doesn't have to leave our body, because it is not housed there in the first place.

These tend to be modern theories - the more historic you go, the more you will read about spirits, souls getting stuck, ectoplasm, ghosts and the dangers therein.  This is because historically, religion was extremely powerful and to keep its power, it needed to control the masses.  The masses were controlled through fear.  So to stop us from exploring (other dimensions, other realities, the dreamworld, other focuses of consciousness, even ourselves), they came out with stuff like, "if your spirit leaves your body it will never get back in and you'll be stuck in no-mans land forever".

You are going to get different answers to your question.  Each answer will be based on that person's belief.

My answer is "I don't know" because I don't hold any beliefs one way or the other.  As I said, I lean towards the changing focus of consciousness angle (which means that we don't GO anywhere, as in travel and certainly nothing leaves the body), therefore if pushed for an answer, I would say that nothing can hurt you.

Sarah
256  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Finding People on: February 18, 2008, 10:21:18
Friends Reunited would be a much better idea.  Or through the friends you have kept.  Why try and find them astrally when you can pick up a phone book?  huh

Sarah
257  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Sparkling Light on: February 18, 2008, 10:17:32
I get this if I look at the blue/white sky when the sun is shining (note: I don't look at the sun!!).

It's lovely, lots of tiny sparkly bright silver flashes everywhere.  I can get lost in it for ages!  grin

No idea what it is, but I like it.

Sarah
258  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I have a problem on: February 17, 2008, 18:47:34
Stuff like meditation,telekinesis,telepathy,and stuff like that doesn't seem to work for me.The only thing that works for me is astral projection and that is only when i am falling asleep and giving my mind suggestions.

Just like physical stuff (maths, english, drama, music, biology), we can't be good at everything.  Be thankful for what you can do!

Sarah
259  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I have a question on: February 17, 2008, 18:44:28
Hi zorgblar

You asked me to respond.  I wouldn't normally respond to a thread such as this because there are too many assumptions/beliefs involved for me to formulate a reply that "fits".  However, I'll give it a shot...but I'll have to break down your questions...and then question you!!  smiley

Quote from: zorgblar
If you could somehow transfer a part of spirit out of your body and seal it in something like an inanimate object would that make you bound to the physical world?

I know that you are a Christian and therefore will respond respectfully.  Of course, as you are well aware, we all have different beliefs and so what I am about to put forward is not necessarily my belief.

Have you heard of people who can tell much about a person from touching an item that belongs to them?  For instance, if you passed a scarf to one of these people, they could reveal all sorts of information about you that there is no way they could previously know.  Well, that's sort of like leaving an imprint of yourself on whatever you touch.  It's like a memory of You.  I think (although I might be wrong) that these people can also pick up information about a dead person's belongings.

Therefore, we are already leaving 'essences' or 'memories' of ourselves all over the place.  So in a way, it does mean that those parts of us are still here on this earth.

But I know that's not really what you mean.  You are talking about earth-bound spirits, right?  There's a lot of discussion that if you are addicted to this life or earth when you die, you somehow get trapped here. 

I guess it's possible.  I believe anything is possible.  I also believe that it depends on choice.  If you choose to have the experience of being tied to earth (when you are spirit), you will.  It explains ghosts...however other things explain ghosts too.

Quote from: zorgblar
Because if apart of your spirit is sealed up in an inanimate object you wouldn't pass on into the afterlife completely right because apart of you would still be stuck here?

I reckon we are so complex, with many many different aspects to us, that we are all over the place already.  Because I can recall my Grandma in my mind and bring back a beautiful day at the beach with her - does that mean she is still here?  Nah, she's gone, but to me, she can be 'real' if I close my eyes and relive that day.

I think we have the ability to leave bits of us here and there without losing the main part of us.  Rather like a tree that sheds its leaves every autumn.  When the leaves are on the tree, they are vital and important.  However, the tree survives if the leaves are on or off. 

Does any of that make sense?

Sarah
260  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Have you seen this? on: February 17, 2008, 13:14:10
I've seen a black & white tiled floor a couple of times...but not the rest of your picture.

Sarah
261  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Differences on: February 16, 2008, 09:45:26
I posted this in the midst of another thread a few days ago, but got no response, so thought I'd start a thread.

I keep reading from various members about the difference between the astral and lucid dreaming.  The trouble comes about saying the astral is 'other dimensions' whereas lucid dreaming is 'in your head' as it is not really helpful when trying to assimilate one from the other.  So here is a challenge to all who think you know the difference...

You see, I've long stopped labelling my experiences, as they often overlap and mingle into one another.

What I'd really like to know is how do you tell the difference between astral travel and lucid dreams?  How do you know you are in a "different dimension".  How do you know you are in your own subconscious?  What are the obvious differences between the two, so that you are able to tell one from another?

When I have an RTZ OBE and walk through the nearest wall, the environment often drastically changes from that which I was expecting.  Have I walked into the astral or a lucid dream? 

I'm a big fan of phasing, however I cannot separate it from a WILD.  Therefore I phase into (what I would term) a Lucid Dream.  And yet, the phasing pioneers used the word astral or other dimensions. 

I'm really curious about all this because for each of my experiences, I've felt ultra-lucid, colours have been exquisite, I've had normal conversations with beings that appeared to be not of my creation....and so on.  I am not able to distinguish an 'astral' experience from a lucid dream.  The only one I can put to one side and label separately is an RTZ OBE - because for me this involves a feeling of separation from the physical and I end up in a near-replica of the room my physical body is in.

I'm curious to hear your views.  I'm not looking for how many planes there are, or levels.

I want to know in basic and simple language how you tell the difference between them when you are there.

There.  Couldn't be simpler, could it? 

I'm looking forward to hearing from you!

Sarah
262  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Bouncing red ball on: February 13, 2008, 10:33:05
Hi Davo

Wow!  3 years later and you've resurrected the thread.  grin

It's doubtful anyone is actually going to know what the red ball was.  It could be any number of possibilities.

Why not put it down as 'strange' and let it go?

Sarah
263  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Aussie Ap-ers on: February 13, 2008, 10:30:50
If anyone is still interested in an Aussie Gateway program can we please keep posting here and then maybe get it noticed? Or we could just ignore it and not. Whatever rings your bell.
Davo*


This site isn't the place to get noticed - you'd need to contact The Monroe Institute (TMI).

Your best bet would be to advertise locally and see how many people would be interested in attending, and then contact TMI.

Sarah
264  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I have a question about astral projection on: February 12, 2008, 17:35:34
I second Stookie.

 smiley

Sarah
265  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: NAOS as a Religion, Nekromanteion on: February 12, 2008, 09:09:55
 rolleyes  You back again?
266  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: I need some help with lucid dreaming on: February 11, 2008, 13:39:55
Quote from: zorgblar
So my plan is to give my self self-suggestions while I'm falling asleep such as"as I drift off to sleep I'm fully aware of my dreams".So will this help me enter my dreams while falling asleep with full awareness?

Hi zorgblar

I thought you were asking AM, not me - sorry!

As it happens, I can't answer with a yes or no - as I don't know the answer.  I can't see why it wouldn't work, and I reckon it's worth giving it a try.

For me, I started by keeping a dream journal and writing everything down, including emotions, sensations, even the silly stuff.  Over time, I naturally started to 'wake up' in the middle of a dream - there is no particular technique or even theme for me, therefore I can't teach anyone else to do it.

Others may come along with techniques that have worked for them.  Try yours for a couple of months - if you are not getting anywhere, try something else.  smiley

Sarah
267  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: I need some help with lucid dreaming on: February 11, 2008, 12:22:43
Lucid dreaming and astral projection are different in that during astral travel you explore a different dimension and during lucid dreaming you explore your own subconscious.

Hi AM

Can I pick your brains?  ... thanks!  smiley

You see, I've long stopped labelling my experiences, as they often overlap and mingle into one another.

What I'd really like to know is how do you tell the difference between astral travel and lucid dreams?  How do you know you are in a "different dimension".  How do you know you are in your own subconscious?  What are the obvious differences between the two, so that you are able to tell one from another?

When I have an RTZ OBE and walk through the nearest wall, the environment often drastically changes from that which I was expecting.  Have I walked into the astral or a lucid dream? 

I'm a big fan of phasing, however I cannot separate it from a WILD.  Therefore I phase into (what I would term) a Lucid Dream.  And yet, the phasing pioneers used the word astral or other dimensions. 

I'm really curious about all this because for each of my experiences, I've felt ultra-lucid, colours have been exquisite, I've had normal conversations with beings that appeared to be not of my creation....and so on.  I am not able to distinguish an 'astral' experience from a lucid dream.  The only one I can put to one side and label separately is an RTZ OBE - because for me this involves a feeling of separation from the physical and I end up in a near-replica of the room my physical body is in.

I'm curious to hear your views.  And if anyone else wants to chip in, please do so.  I'm not looking for how many planes there are, or levels - I want to know in basic and simple language how you tell the difference between them when you are there.

(I apologise if I've knobbled your thread zorgblar and if the mods want to split it, please do so.)  smiley

Sarah
268  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: The problem with the silver cord and the dangers of it on: February 10, 2008, 09:32:09
Quote from: zorgblar
But it doesn't mean that's it's completely impossible to somehow lose complete contact with your body while astral projecting and not be able to get back in because you never know. undecided

Hi zorgblar

This is quite true. 

The reason those of us who are experienced say it's safe is because we've done it hundreds of times and always returned.  We make an educated judgement that we cannot die out of body - because we always return.

Rather like gravity.  If you throw something into the air, it is a given that it MUST fall back to the earth.  This is a scientific "Known".  However, one day something might get thrown up and not return.  We simply can't know for absolute certainly about anything, if we really get into the nitty gritties of life.

If you live in abject fear of dying, then you'd never do anything - including crossing the road, getting out of bed and even cleaning your teeth.

Plus if you take any fear with you into the astral, that fear tends to manifest and you'll have an unpleasant experience.  Therefore, if you feel this way, my advice is not to attempt it.

Sarah
269  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Permanent Astral Topics! / Re: A Focus 23 retrieval on: February 09, 2008, 11:36:30
Quote from: alchemist
Adrian, although you are clearly more advanced than I in retrievals, I still applaud you.

Just to clarify - it's not Adrian - it's Ginny!

Quote from: 369
I don't understand where you were

Focus 23 is focus level termed by Robert Monroe.  If you want to understand, the bottom of reply #3 in the attached link explains the focus levels.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq/what_is_phasing_and_how_can_i_do_it-t17413.0.html

Sarah
270  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: The problem with the silver cord and the dangers of it on: February 07, 2008, 19:47:19
Quote from: psychosoma
If the silver cord were referring to an astral cord, then what is the golden bowl referring to?  Or the  "pitcher at the spring?" Or the "wheel at the well?"  Again, many theologians believe these refer to other body parts such as the brain, heart, etc.  To say otherwise is mere speculation with no additional biblical support whatsoever.

Exactly.  I had the same thoughts, but didn't air them

Quote from: psychosoma
But seeing as we all project every night, consciously or not, and wake up each morning, it appear the danger of the cord breaking is minimal if not non-existent.

Not sure if it was Robert Monroe or Robert Peterson, but if I remember rightly, they deliberately 'broke' the silver cord to see what would happen.  They came back to tell the story.

Quote from: psychosoma
Curiously, I remember when I was a fundamentalist, that I burned all my metaphysical books, including any on Astral Travel, as such things were considered "of the devil."  And all my rock and roll albums.  It was quite costly buying them all back again LOL  grin

 grin

Sarah
271  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: The problem with the silver cord and the dangers of it on: February 07, 2008, 18:41:57
And by the way i am christian so i take the bible VERY seriously just to let you know.

Hi zorgblar

Thank you for letting me know.  I will make sure my posts take this into account if I respond to you in future.  smiley

Interestingly, I was brought up a Christian.  My parents are still, they also know about my OBEs etc., and are very open-minded and accepting of my beliefs.  My Dad recently gave me my old bible and said that I would find Ecclesiastes of particular interest as it is quite 'spiritual'.  smiley

It was lovely opening the bible that I owned when I was just a child - it was full of stickers saying "Jesus Loves You" and "One Way to Heaven".

Sarah
272  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: The problem with the silver cord and the dangers of it on: February 07, 2008, 17:43:47
Many moons ago, people believed in the bible.  Lots of people.  They were controlled by churches and governed by fear. 

Back then, those who did have OBEs no doubt created a silver cord, due to what they had read in the bible.  And then proceeded to be very careful so as not to snap it.  This caused a sort of snowball effect.  The silver cord was recorded.  And thus the next set of OBErs experienced it - because they had read that it exists.  And so on. 

I believe very little that's in the bible.  And I think the silver cord is non-existent.  I've never seen or felt it during my OBEs.  I've also experimented with expecting to feel one, but still nothing. 

Of course, that's only my experience.  smiley

Sarah
273  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Alcohol and OBE Induction on: February 07, 2008, 17:32:35
Hi psychosoma

Based on my experience, alcohol has no effect as to whether I OBE or not.  Except when I really overdo it, in which case I'm out for the count until the morning  grin

Quote from: psychosoma
But I have this feeling, perhaps intuitively, that alcohol is getting in the way.

However, this comment is probably closer to the truth.  Because you feel it might be a hindrance, it will be.

Why not knock it on the head for a month and see what happens?

Sarah
274  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Pyramids in the AP & around the world on: February 02, 2008, 18:23:02
Quote from: Urantia
but see they were built, I'm sure if you really pontificate enough there will always be a solution or explanation just the way the wondered how to build it.

I agree that there is one answer to how they were built.  But will we ever find that answer?  We've been pontificating for donkeys years and in this day and age, we still don't really know.  Explanations are abound.  Here is one.  They were built by aliens.  End of story.  That can't be disproved.  But neither can it be proved.  But it's a solution and explanation.

Quote from: Urantia
I believe everything & anything that is a mystery has an answer, reason, or reasons. There are no mysteries if you really deeply and truly want to know the truth or cause. There are many sayings that go along with this theme (one is "the truth is out there") do you agree?

No I disagree with this.  I perhaps agree that there is an answer to every mystery, but certainly not a reason.  I believe that everyone finds their own 'truth'.  There is no ultimate 'catch-all' truth.  But of course, this is just my opinion and I may be horribly wrong.

Quote from: Urantia
I have a feeling theres a deep spiritual connection to this symbol, as though the lines intersecting create some sort of unity. Could be much more than that. Maybe something I or we cannot see yet.

It's certainly a possibility.  And places such as Stonehenge are fascinating - how they knew back then just how to place each stone to perfection.  We tend to explain it away as, "oh they were much more in tune with the earth back then," and get on with our materialistic lives.  Which is probably quite close to the truth!  It's a shame that the majority of us have lost interest in these ancient gifts and are grudgingly following the herd - work in a job that you hate, for another human you loathe, give that company so much of your precious time.  And then, in your leisure time, what do we do?  Turn the television on to watch mindless garbage for those few hours.  And we think we have no choice!  Ha!  What fools we are.

Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent there.  I've just watched Jonathan Livingston Seagull and it has fired my imagination!  grin

Sarah
275  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Pyramids in the AP & around the world on: February 02, 2008, 11:41:58
Pyramids represent mystery, since no-one knows how the great pyramids in Egypt were built.

And humans love mystery, we are naturally drawn to puzzles.  We love to try and 'work it out', give our opinion of what really happened, and pontificate until the cows come home.  That's why discussion forums are so popular!  smiley

Therefore, it's a great marketing symbol to use, as it is instantly recognisable (and therefore 'safe'), appealing to the eye (being symmetrical) and stimulates our brain.

That's my take on it.

Sarah
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