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401  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: New Scientist's paper about OBE on: September 05, 2007, 09:43:47
Hi Sharpe

Quote from: Sharpe
but you can look at reality in any way you want.
The point is not how YOU look at it, the point is how it is

This is a tricky one, because personally I believe that the point IS how you look at it, not how it is.  Actually, to be honest, I don't believe there is a POINT to anything at all, but that's a different discussion...  tongue

If I may, I'll give you an example.

Let's take two children brought up in different households.  Let's look at their lives pre-nursery school (or pre-kindergarten if you are American).

Joe is brought up in a very hateful atmosphere.  He is regularly beaten, abused and has never experienced affection or love.  He learns to fight for attention, to cheat, sneak and lie, as that is what he sees his parents doing.  It is natural for him.  When he gets to school age, he will believe that every family is like his, it's as natural as breathing.  It's all he knows.  It is reality.  Truth.  Fact.

Jim is brought up in a very loving atmosphere.  His parents show him affection, care and attention, without mollycoddling him.  He learns to listen, smile and be happy as that is what he sees his parents doing.  It is natural for him.  When he gets to school age, he will believe that every family is like his, it's as natural as breathing.  It's all he knows.  It is reality.  Truth.  Fact.

What is the actual Truth?  It is neither, but it is one or the other for each child.

The Truth we know can only be based on the experiences we have had so far in our lives (in my opinion).  My Truth before I had ever heard of/experienced OBEs was that I doubted they existed.  Luckily, I've always been open to possibilities and perhaps because of this openness/curiousity, I was able to project.

Truth is a very very moot subject.  So many people wail, "I just want the Truth!"  My belief is there isn't such a thing as One Truth - there are billions and billions and billions of truths - my truth, your truth, Novice's truth, Mustardseed's truth, Mez's truth, etc., etc., etc.

Quote from: Sharpe
This is what society has thought me, but what reality has thought me is more important.
It thought me that everything is crystal clear and that folks wisdom just complicate things.
If everything isn't clear and it's grey somewhere in the middle, what's the point?
I'm not going to believe it just so I can have the feeling of security, that everything is under control, because it's not.

I'd love to know what you mean by crystal clear.  What's the point of it being crystal clear?  Actually, I'd love to hear what IS the point in your opinion.  smiley

I like the idea of everything NOT being under control.  I'd love for the universe to be one big random chaos thing - that means anything could happen next, which I find exciting.  I suppose this is to do with my beliefs in endless possibilities - the reason I believe this is because it makes me happy  grin

Quote from: Sharpe
Don't blame me, I'm programmed this way

This is a cracking quote.  Many years ago, my ex-hubby and I used to go down the pub, have a few drinks and have conversations about life and what it means, all that usual pub stuff.  He came up with a theory that everyone can only be themselves, there is no free-will.  We discussed it for hours, as I felt it was flawed in some way, however I couldn't put my finger on the flaw.  We even discussed the fact that anyone who murders or rapes is excused from the crime because they were always meant to be that way - it wasn't their fault if you like.  The reason I couldn't put my finger on the flaw is because the theory is a clever little circle that you can't break - it always comes back to "you can only be you, you will only ever do what you are supposed to do"

Your quote reminded me of this.  What are your thoughts on after/before life.  If you say you are programmed, does this mean that you believe someone/something has programmed you, or did you programme yourself before you landed on this earthly realm?  Again, just curious as to your views.  As you know, I believe in endless possibilities so whatever you say is most likely going to be of interest to me.

The trouble with saying that you KNOW the Truth and the rest of us can believe what the hell we like leaves little or no room for discussion.  Which is a shame because this is a discussion forum, to share views/opinions and listen to others.  After a while, members will become frustrated with your "all-knowing" attitude and will either attack or make fun of you, as you have experienced.  And the added problem is that the subjects we discuss here tend to be subjective and based on personal experience, which is not like joining a discussion forum about whether a chair is a chair is a chair...  smiley  You will always get different views/opinions/facts/truths. 

One of our most respected members, Frank, claimed he knew the Truth, above all else.  For me, when someone starts talking like that, I tend to switch off and it has the knock-on effect of disbelieving everything they have ever said/will say, which is a shame.  However, that is most likely because of my upbringing and the experiences I have had thus far in my life.  Or it might that I am programmed that way!  wink

Sarah

402  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP experiment part deux! on: September 03, 2007, 22:00:18
Uuuuhm, the part where you said that things in the astral aren't the same as in the physical like an extra door or window. grin

Hi Sharpe  grin

I now see where you are coming from, however you have (mis)interpreted the above example as being able to "bend matter in the astral" which is not what I said/mean.

I'll come back to you on this one too - when I have a chance to think about it.  I'm tired at the moment and things won't come out as I wish them to...  cheesy

Later...
403  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: New Scientist's paper about OBE on: September 03, 2007, 09:15:13
How about you, what are your beliefs?

Hi Sharpe

I believe in endless possibilities.  And in all the various shades of grey between black and white.  wink

Sarah
404  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP experiment part deux! on: September 03, 2007, 09:13:59
selski mentioned that you can bend matter in the astral plane.

Hi Sharpe

Did I?  I don't remember mentioning that - where did I say that?  smiley

Sarah
405  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP experiment part deux! on: September 02, 2007, 21:14:05
Folk wisdom!

*looks confused as to what Sharpe means by this statement*
406  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: New Scientist's paper about OBE on: September 02, 2007, 21:12:35
I like your response, and I'm the type to go away and think about it for a while.  I'm quite a simple-minded being, and non-technical or scientific, so forgive me if my response is a tad 'basic'.

My first impression is that you assume quite a bit - such as 1 + 1 = 2.  There's nothing wrong with that, but it's quite a 'black and white' view of the world, which won't help if you want to pratice AP.

You also used the word 'better' more than once in your posts.  I'm curious to know what is 'better' than living a happy life.  I'm not being argumentative - just curious to know what you term 'better'.

Sarah

PS  Please understand I'm not looking for a fight, but trying to understand your way of thinking.  If I can't understand, then at least to accept it as your way of thinking.
407  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP experiment part deux! on: September 02, 2007, 21:03:53
Hee hee, I'm on this forum to share, not teach.  If others find their experiences are similar, then great. 

You state that
Quote
Humans have the need to teach what they have learned

Where have you got this from?  It sounds like a factual statement.  I would argue that certain humans feel the need to teach... those who think that their beliefs are truth and everyone else is blind.  Unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that most humans think this, and those who are willing to listen/ accept others' beliefs are in a very small minority.

Sarah
408  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP experiment part deux! on: September 02, 2007, 20:55:52
I would appreciate it if someone would try this out: Instead of the playing cards, ask someone close to you to write a 6 digit number very clearly on a piece of paper.

If you get all the numbers are correct AP is real, because there is absolutely no way you can guess that.
So, if there's anyone who can try this out please post.  grin

This has been done scientifically I believe.  There was a proficient projector called Blue(?) who did this and whilst projecting into the room, he encountered a physical cat whom he stroked.  The cat purred like mad.  This is documented somewhere or other.

As I said before, the trouble with other's proof is whether you are willing to believe them.  I know that before I ever had an OBE, I would have been very dubious of what I read on this website.  It is only since I experienced that I can acknowledge.

The other issue is that an experienced projector has already proved it to themselves and finds no need to prove what they can do to disbelievers... for why should we? 

From my viewpoint, I have no interest/inclination/desire to 'prove' by reciting a 6-digit number to a friend whether I can/can't project.  Personally, I believe I can project - I've proved it to myself (the biggest skeptic) and I'm perfectly content to continue on my own path of projection, whether it be external/internal/a bit of both is neither here nor there to me...

Sarah

Why don't you try this yourself Sharpe as your first big astral challenge...if you can do this, then you should have no doubts...whereas if I come along tomorrow and say "hey, I did this and here is my friend to prove it"... that's no good to you at all.
409  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: New Scientist's paper about OBE on: September 02, 2007, 20:42:43
Well I wouldn't call it succesfully pulled off, but why didn't you check the card in your pocket while AP'ing?
And you had 2 suits correct right? That means you had a chance of 4 to 1, 4 to 1, meaning 16 to 1 chance right? So how did you get 500 to 1?

Just to clarify, you are talking about TVOS's experience, not mine.  Mine was the post above, the Jack of Spades post, the One Off.  grin

Sarah
410  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: New Scientist's paper about OBE on: September 02, 2007, 20:40:10
Hi Sharpe

The trouble with OBEs is there is much speculation as to whether they occur in the physical realm or not. 

Most folks who have the "classic" OBE (where they find themselves in their own bedroom) find that the room is 'not quite right' in that a door is in the wrong place or an extra window is on one wall. 

This makes sense with the playing card experiment.  My belief (and understand it is a belief, not a known fact) is that when we project into the etheric world, it is not physical in the least, but because we perceive it to be, we assume certain things and can literally "create" a physical world overlay on top of another world, if that makes sense.

For instance, what I saw was the Jack of Spades in the astral.  But because of certain (dis)beliefs that this experiment was even possible, I subconsciously made it harder for myself by putting a blue 'A' in the way, thereby potentially making me question/abort the whole experience.

The fact that I stuck with it and checked it out was proof to me.  I'm totally sure myself of my own experience - I know I cannot share it fully with you or anyone else, for you would have to experience it yourself to know what I mean.

Therefore, I'm happy with what I've experienced.  Whether it's "real" or not is beside the point, in my opinion.  We could argue for the rest of eternity whether something is "real", "factual" or "truth".  It doesn't matter, from my point of view.  I've come to the conclusion that if you choose beliefs that make you happy, that makes for a smiley life.  smiley

Curious about something you said...

Quote
If everyone actually did have free-will and every human being was a free spirit, it would mean that there should be an afterlife because it's logical that the body would only be a tool

What do you mean by 'free-will', 'free spirit' and 'logical that the body would only be a tool'?

As an aside (and a lovely experiment if you've never done it) - take yourself outside of being human and imagine yourself as an alien looking down on planet earth.  Imagine what humans think.  Then imagine what robins think.  Then worms.  Then moles.  And so on.  If you can do this (while meditating is even better), it can give you huge insights to our world, especially from a non-human source.

Sarah
411  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: New Scientist's paper about OBE on: September 02, 2007, 14:32:35
And Mez, I would love to hear your results about that test, you know my beliefs, and if you pull that test off, I would need to recalculate my whole map of reality.

Hi Sharpe

The playing card experiment was successfully 'pulled off' by me a few years ago.  Here is the relevant post:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq/the_playing_card_experiment-t18497.0.html

The trouble with this is that you don't know me from Adam and there would always be doubt in your mind as to whether I cheated or made it all up.  In addition, you might also say that to prove it scientifically, it would need to be done numerous times.  Even then, if I told you that I'd successfully done it 17 times (for instance), you still are left with that doubt as to my integrity.

So in a nutshell, the best way to obtain proof is to experience it directly yourself.  And to do this, you need to suspend any belief/disbelief you have about said subject.   smiley

Sarah

P.S.  Oh and just because I have had many OBEs, it doesn't necessarily follow that there is an afterlife - in my opinion.
412  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Favourite Beatles Track? on: August 17, 2007, 22:21:54
Does what it says on the tin!

Mine changes from year to year.  What's yours?  smiley

I reckon the new "Love" album is genius.

Sarah  smiley
413  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Question about the vibrations -- and overall experience on: August 16, 2007, 19:10:44
Hi soulbringer

The quantum link you gave was spelled incorrectly, however typing it in correctly took me to a dating site, also selling fishing rods...  which is probably the craziest mix I've ever come across!!!  cheesy

I'm also dubious about the Vehram site.  This is purely based on my own (dis)beliefs about OBEs.  The fact that one can have an OBE and assume there is life after death doesn't fit with my experiences.  I have had one experience (a lucid dream) which makes me wonder, but apart from that, my experiences don't necessarily equate to an afterlife. 

Then again, I am quite new to all this (4 years or so) and who knows what may happen ahead...  grin

I wouldn't class myself as a 'loose spirit', although I do understand why you might think this.  I've never had an NDE, nor an 'unprecedented' OBE.  Only after I'd read about them, did I realise I'd been close before (I used to be fond of afternoon naps and occasionally felt my recliner chair slowly circling the room - in hindsight it was most likely my double going for a spin!). 

Only once have I requested the vibrations.  This was when I was already "astral" but still housed in my physical body.  I spent numerous occasions simply exploring this state - it is a lovely area of consciousness.  You know you are ready to go, but stay there enjoying the 'weirdness' of it all. 

I asked for vibrations - and got them! They started at the top of my head and by the time they reached my neck, I thought my head was going to explode (in a nice way - I wasn't scared).  Unfortunately, by the time they reached my neck, I lost the experience and 'came round'.

With regards to sleep paralysis, I've never knowingly experienced that sense of "oh my god, I can't move and all these frightening things are happening to me" type of thing.  I've had many times where I've been so relaxed that even if I could move, I have no inclination of doing so.  I've experienced a handful of fear-filled images/sounds that have caused me to jerk my physical to break the spell, so to speak.  However, I've never been 'stuck' in paralysis. 

I class my entry into the hypnagogic state as beginning to hear/see non-physical things.  I'm more of a 'hearer' - I can listen to a non-p radio or voices all day long these days, although it took many months/years of practice to get to that state without falling asleep.  Even now, it's hit and miss, I will often fall asleep before entering the state.

Finally, I'm about as intellectual as a pregnant elephant - but thanks anyway!!!  I'm more of your "simple" type of person (not meaning stupid, just down-to-earth)  smiley

Sarah
414  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: UFOS in meteor shower on: August 15, 2007, 19:29:33
Hi blue_fire

in britain over the last few days (august 12th-14th) there has been a meteor shower. i heard about it and had a look i managed to spot 26 decent and definate meteors

That's quite groovy - I hadn't heard about it - but then again, I don't tend to keep up with what's going on.

Quote from: blue_fire
do you think they could of been ufos or types of alien craft.

Well, the definition of UFOs is Unidentified Flying Objects.  Have you reported them to whatever source you report these things to?  I remember a few years ago, we saw bright lights in the sky circling slowly.  We found out later that it was a Paul McCartney show at Wembley and the laser lights caused hundreds of people to report UFOs to their local radio stations!!

Always look for the physical meaning before turning to the non-physical.  smiley

Sarah


415  The Astral Library / Welcome to Book Reviews! / Re: Recommended Books on: August 08, 2007, 20:05:26
Don't you dare Mustardseed....  tongue

As an aside, I have a 4-month old boy relative whose surname is 'Otter'. 

And yes, his first name is Harry.  Seriously.  I worry about bullying in 5 year's time...  smiley

Sarah
416  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Etheric plane on: August 08, 2007, 20:02:38
Really?!  I've never heard of that before. Although I guess it isn't too surprising, if you believe that all of this universe is varying types of energy...hmm...may have to try and find some electrical lines next time to play with this.  grin

But the bizarre thing is that I don't quite believe that all is energy.  I honestly believed that I would go through them, and it was a complete surprise to be blocked.

I think Monroe talks about them and maybe Bruce too.  Can't remember now - I do find that if one projector believes certain things aren't possible, then it has a 'domino' effect (belief-wise). 

Beliefs are absolutely amazing - are they not?  And may shape the world.  smiley

Sarah
417  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Question about the vibrations -- and overall experience on: August 08, 2007, 18:37:36
Hi soulbringer

Firstly, I do project from lucid dreams these days more often than not.  However, in the beginning I would have the 'classic' OBEs.

I do understand what you are saying, however I would beg to differ about becoming conscious only once I have separated.  Here is a copy of something I replied to on the same day that I replied to this thread:-

Quote from: Selski
When you feel you are close, rather than try to roll out, relax twice as much as you already are.  Kind of sink into yourself and curl up (mentally speaking).  What should happen is that your 'second' body will become loose of its own accord and you will start to feel like you are floating in water, and that you are rather "liquidy".  Again, don't try and move as your second body will naturally start to separate.  You may feel that you are swaying - if so, you can mentally push the swaying motion to go higher and higher (one of my favourite hobbies!!), or you will be almost certain that your arm is half way up in the air (even though you know your physical arm is resting on the bed).

Even at this stage, it is possible that some part of your body isn't quite ready, so don't move.  Let yourself come free naturally. 

Do this many many times to get really familiar with the sensations, so that you know your own body/second body extremely well before you try and get out on your own, as it were.

Based on the above scenario (a typical one for me), where do the vibrations fit in?  I'm not being facetious here, but more curious about your assessment of where the vibrations would occur, given the fact that I am fully awake to start with and go through the whole relaxation process, experience the hypnagogic stage (without sleep paralysis or vibes) and then start to very slowly separate.  smiley

Secondly, I used the term "hallucinations" because that is the 'general' terminology for hypnagogic stuff.  I regularly experience sounds - the usual voices, radio, whistle, bells, airplanes etc etc etc., which I would also term 'hallucinations' - however using that word doesn't mean that I am dismissing the sensations as 'non-real' or pointless or nonsense.  I actually am more in line with your thinking - that we are experiencing alternative realities - my point was that we don't actually really know whether those "alternate realities" are created by our minds, or are external from us.  In the same way, we don't actually know whether 'hallucinations' are creations of our minds or something else.  I also feel the same way about 'dreams' and 'imagination'.  Generally speaking, these words are thrown out there to nullify our (possible) genuine experiences.  So many people on these boards ask "was it a real OBE or just a dream" which I find quite sad.

I have a suspicion that all these things are a creation of the mind.  And rather than that statement be a throwaway "oh well, it doesn't mean anything"; it actually means everything, in that all that we experience, including our lives, planet earth, everything, is a creation of our minds.  I may be wrong, but I like that belief for now, so I'm sticking with it.

Sarah

PS  I've read all Monroe's books - I have a myspace page and Monroe is listed as my one and only "hero"!!  grin
418  The Astral Library / Welcome to Writers Corner! / Re: Dark poem on: August 08, 2007, 18:18:39
Hi LittleJoe

I haven't read the second one yet, but read the first one a few days ago.  It is really very good and appeals to me greatly - I confess I love 'miserable' stuff!! 

How did you write it - what I mean is as you are normally a happy person, where did this come from?  Did you put yourself in that position and write as a suicide?  Did you go into trance?  'Tis fascinating.  Keep writing - you have potential.  smiley

Sarah

419  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: Present on: August 08, 2007, 18:14:55
A recommended book to read about this subject is "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.  A superb read.  In my opinion.  smiley

Sarah
420  The Astral Library / Welcome to Book Reviews! / Re: Recommended Books on: August 08, 2007, 18:10:01
How about this:-

A FREE e-book by Robert Peterson called "Out of Body Experiences - how to have them and what to expect".

Here's the link - http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html

Enjoy!

Sarah
421  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Etheric plane on: August 08, 2007, 18:07:23
Ah... I had an experience just this last week where I was flying towards telegraph wires.  I assumed I would go through them just like most other things, however they stopped me in mid-air!  shocked  I had to climb onto them and continue from there.

I have read that others have had problems with electrical wires before, but I honestly thought it was a self-created belief and it wouldn't apply to me... just goes to show!

Sarah
422  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Little Miss Sunshine Brigade on: August 08, 2007, 18:02:03
I leave for an "extended vacation" and your plowing full speed ahead and phasing like mad!  Damn you!  I knew you would surpass me.  What an awesome experience.  I think im going to go and try to phase now just cus' I'm jelous.

Hee hee, great to see you back knightlight - you have been missed.

I remember Frank saying to me a long time ago that it wouldn't be long before I wouldn't know "how NOT to phase - it would be so natural to me" - well, it seems he may be correct.  I still feel I'm a long way from his 'F3' (I suspect I go there occasionally), and I'm still frolicking in F2, but hopefully in another few years I'll be more experienced.

Btw... what happened to the funny emoticon.  the balloon one hitting himself in the face?  I'm saddened to see it go. 

The forums got updated a while ago, and all the extra smilies were lost...  cry

Sarah
423  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Question about the vibrations -- and overall experience on: August 07, 2007, 14:36:11
If the vibrations are not present, then you need to get them from the Vehram Energy System.  You can do this by willing the energy into your body from the various locations outside your body.  You can learn more about this system at http://vehram.com

I would just like to point out that you don't need vibrations.  I don't have them, and I know there are others who don't experience them either.  They are not necessary.

Hi catalina

The girl is most probably a hypnagogic hallucination - they are extremely common, especially during sleep paralysis.  Although I don't get sleep paralysis, I have come across many "beings" in the astral/etheric plane.  The best advice I can give is: if you are not afraid of them, then just ignore them; or if you feel a bit afraid send them a bubble of love and know that you cannot be harmed.

Sarah
424  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Etheric plane on: August 07, 2007, 14:26:29
Hi Steve

I think the etheric plane is the same area as where an RTZ OBE occurs (Real Time Zone).  If so, then I can feel most things on the plane... furniture, the ground beneath my feet, walls, door handles, grass, trees etc etc. 

Whether I am actually touching the physical objects is open to debate - it may be that I am simulating the effect of touching a tree through memory, or it may be that I'm touching an "astral" tree. 

I'm not sure what you mean by how you phrased your second question.  'Wouldn't prefer to go through' - what does that mean?  Do you mean go through as in experience or go through as in 'go through a wall/door/window' etc?  I'm not too sure of the meaning of "wouldn't prefer" either.  Maybe if you clarify this, I'll be able to answer.  smiley

Sarah
425  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Time to roll out? on: August 07, 2007, 14:18:29
Hi LittleJoe

Violet's post is spot on  smiley

It's very difficult for anyone else to tell you when it's time to separate - you need to find out how it works with you personally, and this takes a lot of practice.  For instance, I instinctively know when I'm ready or not - but I would be unable to describe the state/trigger that shifts me from being physical to non-physical - it's simply a knowing.

This also applies with whether you are new to it or not - each of us is different and you may well be able to 'go deep' faster than other people.

When you feel you are close, rather than try to roll out, relax twice as much as you already are.  Kind of sink into yourself and curl up (mentally speaking).  What should happen is that your 'second' body will become loose of its own accord and you will start to feel like you are floating in water, and that you are rather "liquidy".  Again, don't try and move as your second body will naturally start to separate.  You may feel that you are swaying - if so, you can mentally push the swaying motion to go higher and higher (one of my favourite hobbies!!), or you will be almost certain that your arm is half way up in the air (even though you know your physical arm is resting on the bed).

Even at this stage, it is possible that some part of your body isn't quite ready, so don't move.  Let yourself come free naturally. 

Do this many many times to get really familiar with the sensations, so that you know your own body/second body extremely well before you try and get out on your own, as it were.

Over time, you will recognise subtle differences and eventually you will just simply know that you are ready to go go go...   cool

Sarah
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