Does physical reality have any meaning outside of the person experiencing it? Is there any real evidence of this reality having any significant meaning? If not, then does that not mean this reality and the astral are on par with each other, at least?

Yes of course physical reality has meaning it can be explored and new things found to help benefit people you can work to help benefit others,  It can be verified by other people.    Whereas the verifyablility of a sole projecter's experience cant atm.  So basically when you talk about it to just about anyone...they think you are mad.  So yeah a big difference.  Basically physical reality = community that can work together.  Projecting = interesting individual experiences and thats it.


edit:  i'm uncomfortable with the forum format because by habit i treat it like a real face to face conversation with other people (which it isnt its quite isolating imo).  Normally in a real conversation people answer questions, there is a connection that goes beyond words, the flow of information is dynamic and...dare i say it...alive and possesses an energy all its own.

[extremely]

*small update*

read a lot more of cosmic consciousness.  *ahem*  not exactly a great fan of it but there is the odd occasion where i can relate/agree with an idea being discussed (ie it will really intrigue me)

Of much much more value and interest to me was Robert Peterson's book online.  Nearly finished - very inspiring and down to earth! This is the first guy who talks about things like "do you have your eyes open during OBE and different kinds of sight etc"

but the reall update....  had interesting experience early early this morning (4am - 6 am ish)

3 incidents.  1st one was me in a dream Projecting!  it was a dream definitely but it was about projection (i was out of the body flying around and i think helping some people??? not sure)
2nd incident i cant remember. (not sure if there was a 2nd hrmm)

now i should add that at times i am kindoff waking up and moving about in bed and such.

3rd one  i think i must have woken up again because i wake up and i have hazy consciousness (like you have when you feel yourself waking up in the morning)  and i have sleep paralysis i cant move!  My heart is beating extremely fast so fast im not sure its my actual heart doing it (this has happened before and it freaked me out big time)  I also can sense a presence above me, a figure of some kind.  Unfortunately Fear kicks in so i struggle to move my head to to see this person and im out of the paralysis and awaken. 

Good news is: a) i wasnt afraid as much.  (what i mean by this is usually for me its Instinctual pure Fear and nothing else i can do)
b) i was aware of my fear.

Whats curious about these things happening is that HOURs before going to bed i would be thinking a lot about projecting........ 

More specifically......... Anyone seen the film Dune?

But a person needs new experiences that jars something deep inside....allowing them to grow....without change.....something sleeps inside us.....and seldom awakens...the sleeper must awaken...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKzIMyXzpU

quite bizarre hehehe... i was strongly identifying it with projecting i guess!!!

[me]

NDE/OBE when i was a child ( i think i posted about it on here)  Nothing dramatic though!!  was 4 or 5 years old was put under at the dentist. left my body hovered around the ceiling watching the dentist and assistant hovering over me (although i say me it didnt feel like me was down there)
thats about it.  Has been some slighthly unusual stuff over the years (like extremely vivid frightening nightmares and other things)

You have an astral projection to outer space and find an asteroid with incredibly large holes. You go and ask 'Show me what happened there', then you see something totally weird and unbelievable. You wake up and think 'Of course it was just a dream', but if you knew how much they're lying, you would think again.

Lying?  not sure i understand what you meant.  Do you mean when asked "what happened" they intentionally show something false?

[conduit]

Well, without spoiling the end, Monroe finds out that his 'evolved' masters were future versions of himself

ahh this is in Cosmic Journeys then? In Journeys out of the Body he has some experiences which indicate to him the possibility that "we are 'leftover laboratory animals' or perhaps the experiment is still in progress"

One experience which was very curious -  is where he is trying to get somewhere but before getting there he is stopped by someone asking him "why do you want to see the president".  I think Monroe had to make up a convincing excuse very very quickly to be allowed to pass.  Bizarre!  Astral covert agents?

Such stories aside: do you think along the lines that the physical apparatus of the brain acts as a conduit or 'conducting device' for movement/travel in consciousness across different levels/dimensions of reality? 

take all the metaphysical assumptions aside, and tell me- why do you think we're here? (I mean, humans.)  To experience? To learn?  To be happy (no fair, I answered with my opinion) let's just say that's true.  Isn't OBE another form of exploration?  experience?  learning?  So why does it have to be grander than that?
I noticed that at some times you say Ego as a bad thing and others as a good thing (Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong).  Regardless of either- the fact is, you perceive with it, you experience with it.  So what's so bad about experiencing 'a greater reality' with it?

No idea why we are here.  Maybe thats taking it too far though - there may not be a why (but we can endlessly speculate on it).  But we can look at "whats going on" and draw from that our conclusions.  I cant think of a valid biological reason why consciousness would "leave" the brain/body and act as if independent of it.  But the fact that it does should (imo) shake conventional science to its foundations.  Its a revolution of a sorts

-  but yeah i agree OBE as a form of truly extra-ordinary inner exploration.  It may be in the years to come that there will be a new "science"  The science of astral travel. 

Curiousity is a good thing.  Reading others experiences is also good.  However, the best thing you can do for yourself is to have the experience yourself.   Remember, it is easier to be a skeptic than an explorer.  My advice to you is to look into yourself rather than wait for others to present you with evidence.

Yes i'm a strong believer in finding things out for yourself certainly.  I have a binaural beat recording i might listen to tonight...hopefully it wont bring out my negative energy/emotion? due to past experience (see previous posts)  I have experienced times when i thought weird stuff was going on.  (very very rapid heart rate body asleep which possibly could have been stimulation of the heart chakra?)  Its interesting though...i would have written off my early obe experience as a dream and totally forgotten about it long ago if it wasnt extremely painful!  I guess thats a tiny worry that it will be that same kind of pain for every exit.

Here you lost me.  At least in two of the books you mentioned the author does not come to the conclusion that they are dealing with 'evolved, advanced' species.  In one of them the author specifically comes to the opposite conclusion.  So did you actually read those books, or did you read what others said about those books?

Which ones?  Ive read Monroes classic Journeys out of the Body, Secret of the Soul (Buhlman) and read different books from NDE ones By Melvin Morse and also a book called "You cannot die" (cant recall the author)  Also have started Cosmic Journeys (Mcknight) & Astral Dynamics i have just started.

Frankly some of the stories and adventures seem hard to believe.  (like inhabiting another life in another dimension in another person's/stranger's body for a while)

That you can perceive in ways other than the ones you get in a five sensory way.  This implies connection, does it not?

Connection to what?  Considering that much of what you perceive depends on your state of mind.  Do you perceive what is actually there? Or what is in your own mind? (or indeed others mind  - something that Jung calls the collective unconscious)
I agree yes consciousness does seem to OR can operate outside of the physical body given certain conditions.

Like any other theory about any other thing, right?

Scientific theories can be tested.  They have a practical application.  The theories that are told of in these books are things like:  reincarnation, soul, karmic order to the universe etc.  It isnt explained how they come to these realizations - the authors just add the concepts in.  Now i understand its based on their experience which is why perhaps they are talking about such concepts.  But they dont unpack the concepts.  They talk about them as if they are already accepted.  But how can they be?  No evidence is presented just their belief.

And what exactly is wrong with that?

Because if its all in the mind - then doesnt it lose its "reality validity" Its accepted that certain drugs when taken can induce bizarre hallucinatory effects but it is not assumed at all that such experiences have a Reality beyond the experience.  By that i mean they are taken to be hallucinations and not real. I'm asking if OBES etc are the same?  I suppose actually that according to what ive read - some projection experiences are shared with another person.  The 2 people wake up and remember the same out of body journeys together.  Hrmm...  that would be good evidence i guess.

Well, without actually meaning to, you kind of demonstrated that it's not what the information is, it's what you get out of it.  But if you really want to know where the info is, you'll have to go see it yourself.  And let us know what you find.

So its about what one Ego gets out of it? the individual?  So its not about knowledge or finding new ways of thinking to try to benefit how we live now?  I would have thought if i were to meet a more evolved entity that they would be able to impart some kind of knowledge to help humanity evolve or change?

Thanks for your time - i am just curious.  I dont mean to cause offense.   I do accept the experiences happen.  I just have scepticism over the interpretation of such experiences.

[really]

Ive read a few books (Bruce (havent finished reading his Astral Dynamics), Monroe, Buhlmann, Morse etc) around the subject and i always hear about conversations with evolved, advanced beings and saying things like we are part of a much bigger picture..that this reality is a training ground for consciousness etc.. 
and i hear that by projecting yourself you help your own spiritual advancement.

How?   

I read these stores about many different levels of vibration from the denser matter up to pure thought-responsive realities.

All pretty vague in  though.  Some really interesting stories and wonderful theories built on top.

But i have yet to read or hear anything which is *actual evidence* of information/knowledge from such apparently evolved spiritual beings.  I mean is projecting merely about having your own wild fantastic experiences?  Like going on a drug-induced trip?  For the pleasure?
I do obviously think that projecting is possible because it happened to me once by accident and it certainly wasnt a dream - but i'm pretty sceptical its anything significantly meaningful in a larger sense.  In other words  the Reality of it i'm not sure has any meaning outside of the person having the experience.

If people are actually projecting into these other realities then where is the information of such an exchange?  What are they bringing back?
 

Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce

dont talk to anyone about it.  Told a m8 about it and he just went "hrmm ok" and changed the subject.  So now i "talk"  to myself about it...probably not healthy

had a strange energy type "lifting" sensation at my legs.

I got scared and snapped out of it into regular wakefulness.

Has anyone else had any type of energy type sensations going along there body whilst trying this technique in particular? It seems had I not freaked out and brought myself back I may have had the energy feeling fill my whole body then possibly would lead to vibrations then eventually i'd be able to project.

Yes, ive had this kind of thing lots of times.  My fear reflex kicks in to stop it going any further.

Also had problems when in this sort of state that my heart starts beating incredibly fast and loud which freaks me out unfortunately as i think im dying or something. 

However i could be wrong but i dont think its my physical heart which is beating that fast its something else...

Just because one has the capability of doing something doesnt mean one should.

A lot of people talking about the wherefors and hows of finding MM using OBE.

Oh right we should use the OBE  to find the hundreds and thousands of children and people that go missing each year.  Or is Madeline a special case?

If its about because with MM we have a face and a name and information.  You can just as readily get information on the many many missing people that are in need also.

<snip>

Well that was amazing,  it inspired me to register.  It was just dumbfounding really.  Well done!!!  I am a bit puzzled how this mischevious or malevolent figure who you first met in your bedroom was able to transport you to another place entirely against your will.  Quite disturbing.  But your whole experience.... just WOW!
Did you have time to examine your "body" or see if there was any cord attached to it or anything?  Did you have different knowledge?  That is, you seemed to know that the mischevious presence was deceiving you?
Did you think about what was happening to you during the time away - or did it feel that you were instinctively doing things e.g. out of fear etc  Were you relaxed?  Were your vision and hearing the same as in the physical?

Ive been interested in OBES/Astral Projection on and off since i was in my teens really (well before that even)

Basically i had a short but very painful OBE  when i was a child.  Just going to the dentist's to get teeth out.  I was 5 years old - i was given gas to put me to sleep but i had a reaction to it or something.  Its difficult to describe but it felt like i was squeezed out of my body.  (hold a hairbrush in your hand now use 2 fingers to squeeze or push up each side to the top - it felt like that) The sensation of being squeezed out started at my feet then made its way up to my chest - i should add that this was either extremely painful or just the most horrible sensation i have felt ever.  It made its way to my chest then when it reached my upper chest/heart area i seemed to be outside up at the ceiling.  I know i was at the ceiling because 2 people were leaning over me.  But anyway thats all i remember - but i was the most frightening experience ive ever had. 

Ive had some nightmares through the years (not for a long time now though) that made me think that i am being attacked and have been pretty scary but not the same as this. 

The curious thing is - i would have dismissed this as just a bad dream or forgotten about it long ago if it wasnt for the pain heh oh well ironic.  I think Fear is a big factor which stops me getting further.   Sometimes i feel i can tell if there is someone in the room at night.  Yesterday i was trying out a couple of binaural beat rythms for meditation.  I fell asleep 20 minutes afterwards.  (at 2am)  woke up 2 hours later in a very afraid state of mind - i was absolutely convinced that a malevolent? presence was there - i started talking to myself (re-assuring myself etc) and switched on the radio just to try to get rid of the overpowering feeling of the presence nearby.  I certainly didnt want to go to sleep.

Sorry to go off topic there.