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1  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / The WORLD PEACE project. on: March 06, 2004, 17:47:47

I often think about all the fear and hate in the world, and sometimes it feels like the problem is so BIG that there is nothing I can do to make a significant difference.  Last night I got the idea that if I could find other people who also want to help, that maybe TOGETHER we CAN make a difference.  The idea is to make a very small committment to add love and compassion to the world in our own way and try to find other people who might be interested in helping:

1.  Make a personal committment to spend just one minute a day praying for world peace, or sending out feelings of love to the rest of the world, or doing WHATEVER FEELS RIGHT to add to the energy of love and compassion in the world EVERY DAY.  Something small that does not feel like a burden or sacrifice, so that you will stick with it.  As long as it somehow adds love to the world and is something more than you were doing before, it will make a difference.  Then by following step 2 and finding other people willing to do the same thing, collectively it will mean a LOT more love in the world than there was before!  Smiley

2.  Send copies of this post or a similar letter of your own design to all your friends offering them the opportunity to do likewise.  I normally hate spam e-mail, but it seems like a good way to get people involved.  Please don't add something like "you will get good luck if you do this and something bad will happen if you don't do this" trying to force pople to participate.  Just give people the opportunity to participate and let them know they will not be alone in doing it.  It doesn't matter how you tell other people, whether it be e-mail or maybe making posts on other forums like this one or mentioning the idea in conversation to your friends, or anything else you can think up to share this opportunity with others.  Whatever feels right to you.

If every person who wants to help can find 2-3 other people who also want to help, just think after a month or year or ten years how many NEW people would be having these thoughts of peace and love every day that did NOT have them before.  Even if you don't believe in prayer, just the daily awareness of this by so many people would make a difference.  Maybe put a reminder somewhere you are sure to see it every day to make sure you remember to do whatever you agreed for your minute a day.  Please, if you think this is a good idea, take some action towards doing it RIGHT NOW before you get caught up in other things or forget.

Thanks for taking to time to read this, and I sincerely hope you will decide to do this.  It really costs you nothing and I sincerely believe that collectively we can make a significant difference if we all take a moment to care and work together!

2  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Check this out! (Mind Trick?) :) on: October 07, 2003, 01:18:59
MIND TRICK? (Or not)
Have you ever wondered if your mind is
normal or different?
Well, do this little mind exercise and
find out at the end!
Free will or synaptic wiring? You be the judge.
Check out the following exercise,
guaranteed to raise an eyebrow.
There's no trick or surprise.
Just follow these instructions, and
answer the questions
one at a time and as quickly as you can. Again, as quickly
as you can but don't advance until you've done each of
Now, scroll down (but not too fast, you might miss

What is:






Now repeat saying the number 6 to
yourself as fast as you can for
15 seconds. Then scroll down.

Then arrow down.

Keep going.

You're thinking of a carrot, right?

If not, you're among the 2% of the
population whose minds are different
enough to think of something else.
98% of people will answer with carrot when given this exercise.
Freaky, huh?
3  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Did AP switch to a larger font? on: October 04, 2003, 04:19:45

I noticed that on this web page, the text is suddenly a lot larger than it used to be.  This does not seem to be happening on other web pages.  Was this a change that was made by AP, or did my settings somehow get screwed up?

4  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / CAN WE PLEASE BAN Xvirus? on: September 14, 2003, 00:17:18
I know he's just a little kid with a lot of problems, but he is just spamming up the forum and being deliberately disrespectful of pretty much everyone including himself.  Since we probably can't call his mommy and get him grounded, can we please just ban him?  [Cheesy]

5  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / A cute Christian oriented joke :) on: September 13, 2003, 16:29:02
I cannot see where anyone could possibly take offense to this, but with things the way they have been here lately who knows.  Please know that I am re-posting this here just because I thought it was worth a chuckle for anyone regardless of their religious beliefs.  [Smiley]

An atheist was taking a walk through the woods.

What majestic trees!
What powerful rivers!
What beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushesbehind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7 foot grizzly charge
towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing in on him. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw the bear right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the Atheist cried out: "Oh my God!..." Time stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent. As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky: "You deny my existence for all of these years, teach others I don't exist, and even credit creation to a cosmic accident.

Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament?  Am I to count you as a believer?" The atheist looked directly into the light, "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as a Christian now,  but perhaps could you make the BEAR a Christian?"

"Very well," said the voice. The light went out.

The sounds of the forest resumed. And then the bear dropped his right paw, brought both  paws together and bowed his head and spoke:
"Lord, bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord Amen."
6  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Pendulum course, part 2? on: September 09, 2003, 21:48:59

I was just wondering in light of all the recent conflict regarding the pendulum threads, whether part 2 of the pendulum course has been cancelled?  I sincerely hope it is still released.  Smiley

7  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Copyright Question. on: September 01, 2003, 18:06:01

When somebody asks a question, is it legal to paraphrase information that you have read in books regarding that question as long as you give credit to the author?

8  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Seeking help for my dead father. on: August 23, 2003, 07:37:01

I am very concerned about my father who passed away almost a year ago.  I have visited him astrally several times since he has passed away.  Usually it does not last long because I get too emotional when I see him and end up back in my body.  All the times I have seen him he has seemed very sad and lonely (other than once).  The one time he seemed happy, I got the distinct impression that I somehow went back in time and was seeing him when he was alive rather than in the astral.  After posting today on somebody's topic about visiting the recently deceased, I decided to try to see him again using a conscious exit AP.

He was still in the same room where he spent most of his time the least years of his life.  He seemed sad and lonely again.  He did not notice me until I got his attention, but then he recognized me.  He did not seem excited and happy to see me like he has the other times.  I explained to him that I had visited him several other times but was not able to stay long and he acknowledged that he remembered.  Then I asked him how he was doing and he said "Not good".  I asked him what was wrong exactly, looking for something I could use to help him, and the details of the projection begin to get a little cloudy here.  As close as I can remember he said something about "feeling like he was not the favorite".  I also remember looking closely into his eyes and they were milky looking blue (almost like cataracts although he never had those in life) and sort of "lost" and "distant" looking.  I remember having a very "disturbed" feeling seeing his eyes.  Then I was back in my body wishing I could have finished my conversation or said something that might have helped him.  I was not totally overwhelmed with emotion like I was the other times I had my visits prematurely terminated, but I did sit up and felt quite sad and somewhat disturbed.  I suspect even though I tried very hard to control my emotions that they got away from me too much to maintain the projection.

If my projection experiences are accurate, then my father is very unhappy and is still very much clinging closely to his physical life which was also not particularly happy.  Sometimes he has been "working" when I see him in the astral, often he is sleeping, but always sad and lonely.  Sadly he did die a lonely man.  I was always closer to my mother than to him.  He and my mom had not really gotten along in 20 years and he didn't have many real friends.  My dad and I both always knew we loved each other, but we were not as close as I wish we were.  Oddly, since he has passed away I have felt in a way closer to him than I did when he was alive.  

I often talk to him in my waking state, try to tell him I love him and thank him for all the wonderful ways he was there for me during my life.  I always believed he heard all those things, but my astral experiences with him make me doubt that he has.  I just feel that he is still very lost, sad, and lonely.  I have tried praying for him, asking angels and other deceased relatives to help him, etc. If I am seeing him accurately in my projections however, none of this has seemed to help him.

Hopefully this all makes sense, but if not it is because I am writing it at 4:30AM immediately after recording my projection in my journal and I am pretty tired.  :/

Does anybody have any advice?

9  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Carlos Castaneda? on: August 18, 2003, 01:04:59

I've been seeing the works of Carlos Castaneda referenced in a lot of my recent reading and have recently browsed a few of his books.  Curious, I did an internet search on him to see what I could find out.  Apparently his legitimacy is hotly debated and I saw a few disturbing things.  I don't normally put a lot of stock in people's "opinions", but I saw a couple references to Carlos actually ADMITTING he was a fraud.  If this is true, I really do not want to spend my time and money on his books.

Does anybody know anything about this?  Also, has anyone who has actually followed his teachings had any actual success in your personal spiritual develpment that you believe beyond a doubt is credible?

Finally if he is not a fraud, he has so many different books out, is there any sequence that they should ideally be read in or at least an ideal place to begin reading his material to judge for myself its merits?

10  Energy Body and The Chakras / Welcome to Energy Body and The Chakras / Energy and Sex? on: August 17, 2003, 02:45:02

I have a few questions about energy development and sex that I was hoping you more experienced people could answer:

First of all, how does having sex generally affect your overall energy levels and energy development excercises.

When you are sexually stimulated, is that actually "generating" new energy in your sexual center or is it just somehow moving your existing energy through your sexual center or what?

When a person reaches climax, what happens to that energy?  Do you keep it, give it to the person you are having sex with, etc?  Is there any way to consciously manipulate or change what normally happens to this energy?

Thanks in advance for your time.  Smiley

11  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 22, 2004, 17:38:01

Well, the weather is really getting beautiful here.  It has been a long winter, and my soul feels very drawn to enjoying the soothing and rejuvenating  wonders of the outdoors.  I will still stop in every week or so to see what is new, but until the weather gets either too hot or too cold to be outside a lot, I plan to be enjoying nature for a while instead of the computer.  I just wanted to let everyone know why I will not be around as much for a while so that any of you who might have been inclined to worry about me will know there is nothing to worry about.  I love you all and will see you soon...  Smiley

12  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 21, 2004, 05:54:59
Originally posted by MJ-12

Seriously though. A website with a private forum might really boost your success at channeling. The problem is making sure to come out once in a while to accept criticism and normative dissonance.


I really don't have a problem with this format.  I have no expectations, so I don't mind criticism.  I do pick up some emotional garbage when people get angry or abusive, because I am a little oversensitive, but I know how to quickly let go of it.  When things start going in circles, I feel like everyone's time is more or less wasted, though.  There is no joy for me in posting when this happens.  As long as something NEW is being discussed, I am happy.

To be honest, I strongly prefer discussing general spiritual content rather than so-called "alien" related information.  I don't even think of my guide (or the Zeta) as "aliens" most of the time, and the things we talk about together are almost never topics you would associate with "aliens".  To me, they are just like very insightful, spiritually oriented friends.

As for boosting my success, I guess that depends on how you define success.  I guess I could certainly be more popular surrounding myself with only people who agreed with me, but then what possible good would I really be doing?  I know many people don't think I am doing anything good anyway, but as long as I personally feel good about my own efforts, then I feel successful...  [Smiley]

13  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 21, 2004, 02:29:12

While Orcher and I do not agree on many things, I have talked with him quite a bit and consider him a friend.  He is certainly not stupid by any stretch of the imagination.  Also, Orcher is right when he sais I have not offered actual "proof".  I never even claimed to offer "proof", but merely some supporting data.

I do not believe it is even possible to "prove" something that has not actually happened yet.  Where he and I differ is that he believes a lack of "proof" proves I am deliberately lying: guilty until proven innocent.

The problem with "proof", even if it were give is this: There are a LOT of people in the world today who simply do not want to think for themselves.  How many people do you know who let the media, government, or other people think FOR them?  Imagine for a moment if the aliens did give undisputable "proof" of their existance at this time: showing up in a space ship over a major city, letting one of the human contactees publicly display undisputable psychic powers, etc.  Two things would happen:

1) Some people would become very VERY afraid.  I think many people would even become violent towards known contactees, including certain elements of the government.  Think of the people fearing alien invasion, armageddon, anti-christ, etc.

2) Many people who do not wish to think for themselves would become "followers" of the aliens or contactees.  Many people would be polarized between either being very afraid or becoming blind "followers" of them.  Neither of these developmentws would be particularly helpful to mankind.

Imagine what the world would be like a few days after such undisputable "proof" was common knowledge.  Imagine what life would be like for you and your family if you were a publicly known contactee after this happened.  The way things are now, we can talk and people are free to just ignore us or make fun of us.  The people who are ready will hear us and think about what we say without becoming "followers".  Some seeds will be planted, so that as things slowly move forward, people will remember what they need to remember when it becomes important for them to remember - even if they just laugh now.

And none of us ever said "believe us or leave us" as some people seem to think.  We have always simply asked people who are interested to listen to what has been said and think about it.  Your higher self will always lead you to whatever you truly need to know when you need to know it.  You do not need the aliens or contactees even if all this is "true".  We are but one channel of information that some people may find helpful.  Many other people will not find us helpful at all, and there is nothing wrong with that...  Smiley

14  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 18, 2004, 19:35:35
(The bulk of this letter is NEW material and not just a re-hashing of everything that has already been said.)


I don't know what else to tell you Orcher?  It is my understanding that the magnetic pole shift is caused by a shift in the mass of the earth's core.  Gravity from other planets affects this, and as planet X gets closer the gravitational effect from this will slowly increase.  You are asking me to "prove" it is going to rain before it happens, and I have maintained that nothing can be proven before it happens.  All I can point to is the cloudy sky and the barometer that indicates the atmospheric pressure is dropping.  That does not "prove" it will rain, but those things usually happen before it rains and support the likelihood of it raining.  

Another example:  Think of the pole shift where the earth is like a giant catsup bottle.  The earth's core is moving due to gravity fluctuation similar to a bottle of catsup that is held upside down, but the catsup does not all glop out right away.  You are asking me to "prove" all the catsup is going to suddenly glop out before it has happened.  The links I referred to are like seeing the catsup begin to move ever so slightly before the big glop.  You still cannot "prove" the catsup is going to glop out suddenly, but that doesn't "prove" it is not going to happen either.

Again, I never asked you to believe anything I (or the others) have said.  You call all this "my dogma", but I have never even talked about the pole shift to you or anybody else until you asked me in a personal conversation and started this topic.  I have never claimed to be "right".  I even use a signature file that clearly states everything I write is merely a reflection of my own personal beliefs.  How is this "my dogma"?  My only personal claim to date has been that I feel the material is worth considering for people who are interested and maybe it's worth taking an hour or so to become aware of some relatively safe spots close to you, etc.  I have suggested against making major life changes or being afraid, etc.  And again, I didn't talk about any of this stuff until you specifically asked my opinion.

I keep asking you to show something that I have actually written that is harmful: a quote that is not taken out of context, or indeed anything I have said about the pole shift before you asked me my opinion...and of course you cannot do this because I never talked about the pole shift before you asked me.  You apparently cannot even quote anything harmful said on Zetatalk that is not an "unsupported conclusion" drawn by a reader that is taken out of context and which is also in opposition to the remainder of the material published there.  I am not even invloved with Zetatalk!?!?  You keep talking about "proof"...where is YOUR "proof"?

We are each responsible for our own reactions to the world around us.  If the aliens told me about the pole shift, and I went and sold everything, left my family, and moved to a place I thought was safe all alone on a mountain and spent the rest of my life feeling terrified, then that would be MY RESPONSIBILITY and MY CHOICE - not the alien's or anybody else's...especially when the aliens strongly advised against anyone doing anyting like this.

What is there to gain by blaming other people for our own choices?  That is very disempowering, and frankly it seems to me like a very sad way to live.  Yes, you can blame me or anybody else for anything you want I guess, but that does not mean that you are "right".  You seem to have a very low opinion of people: assuming they are unable to make their own decisions?  This belief alone is probably more "harmful" than anything you have accused the channelers or aliens of (in my opinion)...

15  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 18, 2004, 08:04:10

As requested, I spent about an hour on the internet and found a collection of links to respectable sources that strongly support the pole shift idea.  There were literally thousands of links I did not check that would probably yield much more information.  As I have previously said, I do not believe you can "prove" something that has not actually happened yet, but this information from credible sources seems worth a look:

16  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 17, 2004, 18:52:37
Hi again Orcher,

We are simply going in circles and nothing constructive is resulting from any of this.  Why do we give information about safe places around the world that anybody can get to without doing anything radical?  So that if/when the time comes that people need it, they will know where to go.  There is no sense worrying about anything in life, worrying accomplishes nothing.  All we are suggesting is to spend an hour or so getting some ideas of where to go and become aware of some other minor preparations that may help you.  One hour of your time - we have already each wasted 10x that here arguing about whether or not I am lying?  If you don't feel the potential value of such information is worth the bother, just don't do's that simple.

It is simply not my "job" to make you believe anything.  And you make it sound like we are some kind of cult, or trying to get people to follow us.  Well, NOBODY is following us, nobody is giving us any money or anything else of value?  What exactly do you feel I am getting out of this personally?  I spend 90% of my writing time trying to correct what I feel are misperceptions.  Why do I feel you are blaming your misperceptions and self-drawn conclusions on the aliens?  Because I do not believe you could quote any of the channeled material that supports any of the conclusions you have mentioned thus far, and if you did, I believe it would be something taken out of context that would not be at all supported by the remaining bulk of the material given.

And I do not have any bad feelings towards you, but I say the words "accusing" in response to your words such as "what you are doing is a crime", etc.  I also feel it crosses the line between discussion and accusation when you publicly imply that I am deliberately lying to and deceiving people.  And this I might add is done with no "proof" that you seem to feel is so important other than the fact that I cannot "prove" I am not lying.  "Guilty" unless "proven" innocent.

I do not see where anything I am aware of any of the other channelers having written being guilty of any of the things you suggest.  And the only material I have personally written about any of this pole shift stuff has been simply to state that I feel you are misunderstanding or ignoring the bulk of the material presented by others.  My personal focus has nothing to do with any of this stuff, and neither has my guide's?

This whole conversation is simply not worth either of our time, nor is it probably worth the time of any other readers.  Nothing productive is happening for anybody as a result of our invested time - at least that I can see.  You seem to need to have the "final word", so please feel free to have it.    Unless you present some quoted information from one of my posts or the channeled material (with links) that is harmful and which is not an "unsupported conclusion" of the reader that is not already answered in the remainder of the material, I am done with this conversation.  If I don't answer your next post(s), it only means that I honestly feel the answer has already been covered.  I don't expect you to "believe" me, and I certainly don't want you or anyone else "following" me.  It is unwise to follow anyone.  Do whatever you feel is right and Godbless...  Smiley


PS - I am happy to talk to you personally on MSN as friends like we used to, but not to waste time arguing about this.  There is simply nothing else NEW to say.  You believe what you believe and you have every right to.  I honestly do not agree with your opinions, and that is also my right.  Please, let us leave it at that?
17  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 16, 2004, 18:38:41
Hi Orcher,

We never said the pole shift was directly connected to 2012.  In fact, quite the opposite has been said.  We never advocated anybody sell everything, move to other countries, or do anything crazy.  We have said that as the event moves closer, there will be many indications of what is happening (greatly increeased earthquakes, volcanoes erupting, tidal fluctuations, etc. that can all be scientifically measured). We have given information about locations all around the world which will have higher relative degrees of safety, without anybody having to leave their country or do anything drastic to get there.  I do not have all the "links", because like I said I do not even worry about the poleshift.  I did several simple internet searches and pulled up thousands of links though, so you can do the same thing.  They are probably not all objective and scientific, but I am sure some of them are.  And there have been reports I have read highlights of and seen references to scientific journals about how the position of true magnetic north on earth has fluctuated measurably a few times recently, etc.  All this information is out there.  That still does not "prove" all this is true, but maybe it gives a reasonable enough credence to justify simply becoming aware of a few locations close to you that would be more safe so that if/when you see some of these more severe geological and other signs that the earth's pole is changing, you can take reasonable actions?  To the best of my knowledge, none of us has ever suggested anybody do anything crazy or make their whole life revolve fanatically around the pole shift as you are suggesting?  

These concerns and fears you are talking about have nothing to do with anything we have actually said.  In almost all the cases you have described, the channelers have in fact said something completely different, but people do not listen (ex: encouraging people to be practical, not to be afraid, etc.)?  The pole shift is not even the actual "focus" of what these beings have talked about, but merely one aspect that has been sensationalized.  My guides and the zeta have spent maybe half an hour total talking to me about the pole shift over the last year.  And this was just basicly telling me to keep my eyes open, be aware of a few local places I can go when the time comes, and not to worry?  Everything else I have talked about with them has been regarding general knowledge I am interested in or helping me to understand people better and love them more unconditionally, etc.

I'm sorry, but I feel you are very much misunderstanding what these beings are actually saying.  Specifically, I feel you are focusing on a small sensational part of everything that these beings have said, drawn your own conclusions about these things that are contrary to much of what these beings have actually said, and then are blaming the aliens for your own conclusions even though these conclusions do not accurately reflect what they have actually tried to say.

Furthermore, I feel you are accusing me of all these things when I do not believe I have EVER personally said (or channeled) ANYTHING along the lines of what is actually upsetting you?  And even if one of the other channelers does say something you don't agree with, that is not MY fault just because I happen to have a guide too?  I take full responsibility for everything I write, but I simply do not see where anything I have ever personally written is "guilty" of any of the things you are accusing me (or my guide) of.  Please feel free to re-read all my posts and show me where anything I have ever personally written could reasonably hurt anyone?

18  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 16, 2004, 05:45:45

Well, let me just say this: I have never read anything James has written that did not seem sincere and insightful.  I also feel James has a lot of valid points.  I do not think anybody could go wrong by listening to his advice given here.  No guide that was worth anything would object to your being extremely careful and even validating them with a neutral party.  The closest thing to a quibble I have is to please be just as careful with any other spirits you consult about a potential guide as you are with any potential guides.  I would take it a step farther and say if you have a gut feeling like James that something is "not right", to just listen to yourself and decline both the guide and the third party spirit you are thinking of consulting.  If you have that kind of feeling, you do not need outside confirmation in my opinion - just drop the guide.  Nothing that feels "wrong" is ever going to be what is best for you.  Trust yourself.  If you DON'T have such a gut feeling or sense of "wrongness", it still cannot hurt to get an outside opinion.  My only question is, how do you really know that opinion is "right"?  If you can answer that question to your own deep satisfaction, then you are on the right track towards what is best for you.

19  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 16, 2004, 00:57:23

Even CNN and MSN and other major news programs have broadcast information on the 10th planet and there is scientific information available about the pole shift that has nothing to do with the aliens.  I know more is availalbe in scientific journals and publications.  I never really watch this stuff, because quite frankly I personally don't really worry about the pole shift.  When it comes it comes. I have been given a few basic strategies to help me deal with it when the time comes.  I will deal with it in as simple and practical a way as I try to deal with anything else that happens in my life.  There IS information out there that supports much of this, but instead of investigating it for themselves, some people choose to "blame" the aliens and channelers.

Do you believe in astral projection or any of the things typically talked about on this board?  Where is the objective "proof" for these things?  There was almost nothing said about APing 30 years ago - there was no data at all to speak of.  Does this mean because it took 30 years to collect data (that incidentally still does not "prove" anything) that it is/was not "real"?  

I could spend hours addressing each point that you make attempting to disprove what we do, but what is really to be gained?  You don't NEED to believe any of this is true.  You are in charge of your own life.  You will decide how you live, and ultimately you will decide how and when you die.  I don't know if you believe that you are in control of your own life or not, but I believe you are.  You might read this information now and be angry or laugh at us, but maybe when the time comes, you will remember something that will help you.  Who knows?

It's fine if you don't want to believe anything we say, but I feel it is unfair to accuse us of wrongdoing or telling us to "shut up" just because you don't believe us.  And I feel many double standards are applied to the "aliens" that are not applied equally to many other things in life that are in their own way just as difficult to believe from a purely objective point of view.

I feel I have said all I can say on this.  I cannot prove you wrong, nor do I even want to.  Unless I have something else NEW to say that I feel will be in some way constructive, I do not plan to be posting on these topics in the near future.  Thanks for listening and God bless...  [Smiley]

20  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Zeta Project: Zeta conversations - and questions on: April 15, 2004, 20:48:01
Originally posted by WhiteLight

Right, let's put this bollocks to bed for once and all.

Stop this endless game of verbal tennis and prove it.

Time to put up or shut up.

But they can't can they(the aliens)? They don't make predictions; they don't mind making reams of endless, boring bulls**t that nobody cares about though, do they? They don't do anything that can be substansiated - just abstract ideas that cannot be proven one way or the other; rather convenient wouldn't you say?

Nobody take offence from the above but I have to vent. If they are here to help us (which most sensible people know they aren't)then help us.

Prove to us their good intent.

Prove to us the validity of their claims.

The Catherine Zeta Jones mob have been caught lying out of their arses and no posturing or double speak can negate the lies. Only a fool would believe all this nonsense anyway.

People need three things in their lives:

1 God
2 The knowledge they are eternal
3 Love

We don't need hocus pocus, starships or Christ knows what else.

Soulfire you seem like a nice guy to me and I really do not know what these so called aliens are - Dark ones, aliens or an over active imagination. Whatever it is this protracted defence of the indefensible is becoming a bore.

Sorry if I appear a tad blunt, but some plain speaking is needed - no offence
With tough Love

Hi Whitelight,

These are all your feeling and opinions, and that is fine.  I do however feel it is wrong for you to try and tell me essentially if I am not going to say exactly what you want to hear, that I should just shut up.  If you are bored and disinterested, please just don't read it.  But please don't try to tell me I don't have the right to discuss my beliefs because they do not fit your criteria?  I had not posted anything here on any of this for weeks, but I feel I had a right to respond to Orcher's post.  My beliefs and opinions are no more or less valid than anyone else's.

An again, going back to "proof":  Can you prove that everything you have written about on this board is positively objectively "true"?  Can anybody?  Pretty much everything that is discussed on this board (ex: astral projection) can not be objectively "proven".  People come on here all the time and demand "proof".  We who have experienced it may absolutely believe it is "true", but we cannot "prove" it to anyone else - they must find their own proof.  Does that mean it isn't real?  The fact is that it is entirely possible that it is not real exactly the way we think.  Maybe it is just similar to a vivid dream?  Maybe the verifications of objective data that have been done are not a result of actually "going" there and "seeing" what was verified, but rather just receiving telepathic information from somebody else who has been there and interpreting it in physical terms that seem objective?  Perhaps as many fundamentalist Christians have suggested, we really are just being deceived by Satan and the demons?  While I personally feel that I know APing is "true", the fact is that all I really know is that I have come to believe it is true based on my own personal experiences.  I think it is a double standard to demand "proof" of "aliens", when other material that is in its own way just as difficult to believe is happily accepted without "proof".  Just my opinion...

21  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 15, 2004, 20:38:10
Originally posted by Orcher
So letís give you a better thought of how rational thinking work.
The only reason why you donít kill people is because you donít want to be killed/or get in jail one day. Though that there is murders in this world.
The only reason you donít robe/rap anther one is because you donít want to be robed/raped one day by someone else. Though that there is robbery and rape in this world.
The only reason why you do feel sorry for some, it because you remember times when you felt like them and thatís hurt (you show compassion) thatís why Saddam-Hussainís children were so cruel. (They never felt that feeling)
The only reason you love people itís because you want to be loved. Thatís it.

I'm sorry Orcher, but I do not personally share any of these reasons why you assume we all do or don't do these things.  To assume that his is how all people must think is (in my opinion) an error.  Of course you feel everything I think is an error, too.  I guess there is very little chance of us reconciling our differences, but that is ok.  I still like and respect you and wish you the very best.  I am sincerely sorry anything I have ever said has distressed you, as this was never my intention...  Smiley

22  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Zeta Project: Zeta conversations - and questions on: April 15, 2004, 07:05:29
As the Pleidians have access to the Akashic records, for example, how hard can this be ? And how harmful can that be ? That will only get some people more interested in you, or prevent others to lose interest.

Using this same type of logic, why shouldn't the aliens find all the proof of all the criminals in the world and get them off the street so they can't hurt anybody?  Why should they not give me the lottery numbers so I can donate the money to worthy causes?  Why should they not tell everybody exactly how they are likely to die and give concrete "proof" that they are right so nobody will doubt them and miss their opportunity to escape death?

The ideas that are passed along from these beings are merely for people to think about - not to be taken blindly as "truth".


Yes, the truth shall be known...that does NOT necessarily imply that it is just going to be handed to you without you having to think and examine things for yourself.  The people around you can do their best to be helpful, but ultimately all truth must be found inside yourself.  This does not mean that you should never listen to anybody else, because sometimes the people around you can give you the clues you need to help you find the truth within.  

That is all we ever asked: to consider ideas, think about them, and then do what you feel is right in your heart.  For you that means trying to tell everybody we are idiots because that is what you sincerely believe.  While I wish you did not feel this way, I understand you are only trying to do what you believe is right.  No matter our differences, we share that much in common at least: that we are both at least trying to do what we feel is right...  Smiley

23  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Zeta Project: Zeta conversations - and questions on: April 15, 2004, 06:36:57

When I say you cannot prove anything, what I mean is no matter how much something may SEEM to be "proven", there is always the possibility that you are not seeing everything and/or not completely understanding what you do see.

For instance, here is the corpse and death certificate of person X, that "proves" he is dead.  But is he?  Or is he alive on another plane that cannot be physically understood or proven?  Could the corpse have been mis-identified or falsified in some way?  Did the medical examiners miss something?  Is he perhaps just in a coma and could come out of it after being pronounced dead by a medical professional?  While some of these possibilities may seem UNLIKELY, they are all quite possible and have actually happened in many cases.  Thus, no amount of "proof" can REALLY prove somebody is dead, and this same dynamic applies to "proving" pretty much everything else I can think of.

I used the example of the color of his shirt because that was specifically what he suggested in that conversation transcript.  As for other "proof", why isn't the existing scientific evidence that supports the likelihood of a pole shift not being even considered?  Why do you need mystical or miraculous "signs" when there is objective data?  And if science is also talking about the pole shift, why are the aliens and the people who speak with them criminally "irresponsible" and not the scientists who are saying similar things?  I am not a big fan of the Bible, but is a character like Noah who tries to warn everyone of a coming flood and advising people how to survive it being irresponsible if he sincerely believes there is going to be a flood?  

Can you "prove" the pole shift will not occur?  Is there any harm in being aware of a few places near where you live that would be more safe in the event these things really do start to happen?  Is there anything wrong with encouraging people to serve one another in love instead of primarily trying to get as much as possible for yourself with no regard for others?  Do many of us really have any doubt that many of our governments do not always have our best interest at heart?  Unless you have no spiritual beliefs that life does not just end when your body dies, then even the possibility of dying in a natural catastrophe is no cause for FEAR.  We are all going to have our bodies die eventually.  The messages from these beings is aimed at improving your chances to survive, not to make you be afraid of death.  How much actual damage can any of these messages really do even if we are wrong about the pole shift?  How much good will we have done if the pole shift does come (as both the channelings and scientific evidence suggests) and many people have some information that will help them survive?

Am I just an "idiot" like you suggest?  Only time will tell for sure I guess...

24  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Zeta Project: Zeta conversations - and questions on: April 14, 2004, 18:28:32
This is a copy of my post on another thread in relation to the discussion between myself and Orcher that he has posted.  Smiley


I just wanted to explain my position on this:

The type or proof Orcher is asking for here would not prove what he is wanting proven even if it was delivered. If I could for example tell him what color his shirt was as he asked, all that would prove is that I was psychic or a skilled remote viewer, or even a lucky guesser, etc.  I have never claimed to be any of these things.  It would not prove that anything the aliens are trying to say is necessarily true.  Many people who do not want to make their own decisions might indeed start blindly trusting the channelers or aliens based on such so-called "proof", but this is not what any of us want.

You really cannot ever actually prove anything.  There is a lot of scientific documentation that supports much of what has been said about the pole shift.  The scientific community has come to its own conclusions based on the physical evidence before the aliens began having these discussions.  To me, this would seem to indicate that blaming the aliens is unfair.

The ideas that are passed along from these beings are merely for people to think about - not to be taken blindly as "truth".  We have always said this.  There is a lot of information out there, of both channeled and scientific nature.  All we have ever asked is that people use their own hearts and minds to examine all of it, and then do what they feel is best.  I see no crime in this.  Thank you.

25  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ? on: April 14, 2004, 18:25:57

I just wanted to explain my position on this:

The type or proof Orcher is asking for here would not prove what he is wanting proven even if it was delivered. If I could for example tell him what color his shirt was as he asked, all that would prove is that I was psychic or a skilled remote viewer, or even a lucky guesser, etc.  I have never claimed to be any of these things.  It would not prove that anything the aliens are trying to say is necessarily true.  Many people who do not want to make their own decisions might indeed start blindly trusting the channelers or aliens based on such so-called "proof", but this is not what any of us want.

You really cannot ever actually prove anything.  There is a lot of scientific documentation that supports much of what has been said about the pole shift.  The scientific community has come to its own conclusions based on the physical evidence before the aliens began having these discussions.  To me, this would seem to indicate that blaming the aliens is unfair.

The ideas that are passed along from these beings are merely for people to think about - not to be taken blindly as "truth".  We have always said this.  There is a lot of information out there, of both channeled and scientific nature.  All we have ever asked is that people use their own hearts and minds to examine all of it, and then do what they feel is best.  I see no crime in this.  Thank you.


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