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1  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Path to enlightenment? on: July 30, 2006, 15:15:08
By changing your perception beyond the physical level, it's possible to perceive that everything IS this consciousness. In this view of reality, there is no separation between your skin and the air surrounding it. All that's left is perception of consciousness as one. Not space, time, identity, ego, self, etc.

But you have to separate from your ego to experience it, and an ego doesn't take to kindly to that.  evil grin

I agree that everything is consciousness, and at the higher level there is no space or time. But that doesn't mean that we don't have also individual identities. Research on OBEs, reincarnation and NDE proves that our individual identities remain.

In my opinion these articles are very good and they explain the same things what I tried to write here, only better.

This quote is from one of their articles and I have experienced it myself.

"Actually, outside the physical body, we will be exactly the same, with the same evolutionary level"

And other quote from the same source:

"The strength of the personality (ego?) comes about through centuries, in acts of determination and ethics which polish off the character."

I agree completely with that.

There's also a great article which explains my opinion of this matter better than I could ever do in the following url

That's one of the best articles I have ever read. I apologize, if this stuff is too off-topic, but in my opinion these matters are essential to understand at the path to enlightenment.
2  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Path to enlightenment? on: July 29, 2006, 23:46:21
Let's take Buddhists\Hinduists for example. They believe in reincarnation as well as they believe in OBE (they are not calling it OBE, but they  are capable of leaving body). But besides all that they believe that true enlightenment is when you realise by direct experience that life is an illusion..

Yes, they believe it, but it's just religion.

Since english is not my mother tongue, I may have expressed myself indistinctly. I meant that there are individual souls, but souls can also be parts of the bigger whole(universe) and interconnected. The idea that we are all "drops in the ocean" is sick and wrong. If drop of water merges into ocean, it will cease to exist as a drop. Metaphors like that are exactly what I'm against. That kind of stuff distorts the truth. In reality individual identity is immortal, even if the soul temporarily "merges" with a larger whole.
3  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Path to enlightenment? on: July 28, 2006, 20:32:36
Mystical Experience that we call Enlightenment must be experienced. No one can describe it to you... But as far as I know one of the things you learn when you are enlightened is that there is no individual spirits\souls....

No, there are definitely individual souls. Research on reincarnation and OBEs proves that.

On some level we may be parts of the universe and interconnected, but we are still individual souls. Individuality is a fact and also greatest gift we have. I'd rather die fighting against unity, than "merge with light" etc.

4  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Path to enlightenment? on: July 26, 2006, 00:57:44
You cannot enlighten yourself... enlightenment is the realisation that there is no self in the first place, only the illusion of self. The illusion that you are an individual is what keeps you unconscious of your true nature. That there is no YOU only Divine.

If that's enlightenment, then I don't want to become enlightened.

In my opinion that "there is no self" - stuff is an evil lie. Communist propaganda and nothing else. Everything is interconnected, but everything is not the same and everyone is not equal. 
5  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Animals - killing - karma from the book Our Ultimate Reality on: July 04, 2006, 01:23:59
Quote from: Lighthouse

 As One, if you feel judgment of "another" for something they do, that is something you might wish to explore within because the one you are judging is yourself.  


I don't believe that at all. Perhaps it could be said in some sense, that everything is one, but we are still not the same thing. Even though everything is interconnected, we are different individuals, different souls.

About killing animals, I agree with Alaskans>. I like animals and I'm concerned about environmental issues, but hugging trees and behaving like a hippie doesn't do anything good.
6  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Near Death Experiences & Out of Body Experiences on: May 29, 2006, 18:12:33
I'm sure that everybody will survive physical death. If you are good or evil has nothing to do with survival. Even the most cruel murderers will survive just like good people. There is no such thing as soulless human.

I believe that also animals, insects and viruses will survive. If they didn't have lifeforce (soul), they wouldn't be alive. In my opinion our souls are just more evolved than animals souls.

If you look at Pim van Lommel's article at the IANDS, you will probably understand what I mean. Anyway, it's an interesting article to read.

He thinks that human brain only receives true consciousness, which is not physical. I think that this applies to all living things. We all are originally non-physical.
7  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / A question that may annoy some people on: May 28, 2006, 21:52:35
Quote from: Selski
Quote from: SS_Patrick
Actually, I think that drug users are weak and inferior people.

Watch that ego Patrick - statements such as yours have a tendency to come back and slap you right in the face.


I won't regret anything I wrote. In these times it's "cool" and "trendy" to use drugs. Many people suffer because of that attitude. I knew that kind of people and drugs have ruined their lives. Unfortunately many people glorify drug using, and that trend also manifests itself in reality; young kids think that it's cool to use drugs and start using them.

In my circle of close people, we all share very negative attitude against drugs and I won't change my opinions on that matter. In fact, when I was younger, if there had been drug users, they would have been beaten properly. (not by me but there were several persons, who'd have done that). I will teach my children to despise drug users.
8  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Near Death Experiences & Out of Body Experiences on: May 28, 2006, 21:32:23
NDEs can offer very good evidence of afterlife, but in my opinion research on reincarnation is even better. Reincarnation cases can't be caused by brain chemistry etc, which is common scientific theory for NDEs. Also, one can always argue that people who had NDEs weren't really dead. Personally I have heard that argument many times when I have discussed with people about these things. But on reincarnation cases, previous personality has died before research subjects birth and thus there is not that disadvantage.

In my opinion these books by Dr. Ian Stevenson contain the strongest evidence available of life after death:

Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation (this is a good book to start with this subject)

Reincarnation and Biology (volume 1)
Reincarnation and Biology (volume 2)

These books contain so much evidence, that even the most close minded materialist couldn't deny it. And when we add other evidence (OBEs, NDEs etc.), it would be stupid to ignore such an amount of strong evidence.
9  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / A question that may annoy some people on: May 27, 2006, 21:33:36
I have never used drugs and I don't socialize with people who use them. Actually, I think that drug users are weak and inferior people.

I have had 1 spontaneous OBE.
10  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / karma and its extreme consequences on: May 25, 2006, 19:02:24
Quote from: loppoppy
if such a thing were to be true then it would surely give me the the inspiration to aspire in my physical life to ensure such a thing would never happen to me. Just the thought of eternal damnation or continuous loop is frightening beyond belief.

When I learnt that OBEs and other spiritual stuff are real, I didn't change my opinions of right and wrong at all. In my opinion it's useless and even harmful to live one's life in fear of punishment after death.

I don't believe at all in hell or other religious concepts. As for "karma", I think that James S explained that very well.
11  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Whats the point and meaning of life and living? on: May 22, 2006, 21:54:56
I have found my purpose of life, but I won't tell it here. I'm sure that we all have different paths and therefore my purpose of life is not valid for others.

I believe that eventually we'll become gods, higher beings or whatever term one wants to use. In my opinion (and research on reincarnation also brings evidence for that) we should develop ourselves because our skills and lessons we have learned are stored in some part of soul. We should develop ourselves better physically and spiritually.

In my opinion people who are born disabled, don't have purpose in that incarnation. They can still continue developing in their next lives. I certainly don't mean to dehumanize disabled people but it's stupid to think that it is the will of god or some higher authority if you get for example into car accident or born disabled etc. Although fatal diseases, accidents etc. can ruin lives, some negative things are necessary for development. This is just my opinion, but I think that in spirit worlds one can't learn and develop as much as in physical plane. We need to go through some bad things which make us stronger. Light and darkness can't be separated, both are part of life.
12  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Need some lucid dream advice on: May 18, 2006, 02:53:01
When I feel that I'm waking up or drifting into normal dream, I always try to touch and feel something. For example in my last lucid dream I took can of Battery from the floor, held it in my hand and stared it. Also touching walls, floor etc. helps me to continue lucid dream.

I don't know about others, but for me lucid dreams are lot more easier to remember than normal dreams.
13  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Seeing deceased pets in the astral plane on: May 15, 2006, 19:37:47
My grandparents had a dog who died when I was about 3. About 20 years later I had a strange dream about him. He licked my face and when I woke up I still felt the physical sensations on my face. I have never had dream like that before or after that.

Since I'm allergic, I have had zero contact with dogs after our grandparents dog died. I have some pictures where I was with him and I have some very dim memories about that. I hadn't thought him at all that night or anything else dog related. Thus it was quite odd experience. I'm not sure, if it was just a dream or something astral related, but anyway that was quite interesting.

I had spontaneous OBE few days after that, but I didn't see any living things during that.
14  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Lucid dreams and solid objects on: May 01, 2006, 19:39:29
Thanks for the answers. I tried something like that last night. I didn't look at the door, but instead went through it sideways. That was actually quite interesting, it felt like there was some resisting force but I managed to go through. Like walking in the water, same kind of resistance.
15  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Lucid dreams and solid objects on: April 30, 2006, 19:36:21
I have recently had some very realistic lucid dreams. I have tried to go through doors and other solid objects but for some reason I can't. I have pounded doors with my fists and I have touched them with my hands and tried to push my hands slowly through them. For some reason the results are always the same; just like in reality, I can't get through them. Doors feel just as real as in waking reality. If I hit the door with my fist, it feels just like in waking reality.

Do you have any lucid dreams, where everything feels as real as in the waking reality? Can you go through solid objects, and if you can, how do you do it?

I don't know, if my skeptical nature has something to do with this. Every time I fly in my lucid dreams, I don't believe that I can really fly, and I always look in the mirror, try to find ropes etc. to verify that I can really fly and there is no cheating. Also, I can't do any cool things in my lucid dreams. I'm always inside my house and all my time goes to verifying things and exploring some dull stuff, like doors, floor and walls. Maybe it's just my lack of imagination that I can't have lucid dreams where I'm for example king in the medieval village etc. even though I can control my dream and I usually have quite long lucid dreams.
16  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Lucid dream, or OBE on: April 23, 2006, 21:50:21
I can't answer, if first poster had OBE or not, but I had interesting experience, which might have some relevance here.

Few nights ago I decided to do the usual card test. I put card on a place where I couldn't see it. Then I went to my bed and tried to induce OBE. After a while I thought that I was out of my body. I tried to watch my body but for some reason I couldn't turn to face it. Then I went to the table, where the card was. I could clearly see that it was 9 of spades. Then the figure changed between spade and a club for a while and finally it was a spade again. Then I decided to go out of my bedroom. I tried to go through the door but I couldn't. I knocked the door with my fist and clearly felt the cold wood and heard a voice of knocking. I opened the door and went to the hallway. I decided to stand on my arms and after that I started to rise in the air feet first. Then I woke up.

At first I checked the card, but it was 5 of hearts. Then I remembered that in the previous experience I had lights on my bedroom and it was dark outside. In reality I had no lights and it was sunny day outside. Also, some furniture and other stuff were in different places than in my experience. Therefore it's clear to me that I had lucid dream.
17  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Deeper, Higher, Love, Spiritual on: April 21, 2006, 22:04:37
Quote from: fliesatnite
I highly recommend them, if you do a search on Dan Millman, he has a website about his books.  They are interesting and insightful, and very much in line with your post.  Which is what made me think of him.

I'll check them out when I'll have more time.
18  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Deeper, Higher, Love, Spiritual on: April 20, 2006, 20:27:05
Quote from: fliesatnite

Based on your above paragraph, I was wondering, have you ever read any of Dan Millman's books? The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, Journey of the Peaceful Warrior.. ?

No. I have never even heard of them.
19  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Deeper, Higher, Love, Spiritual on: April 19, 2006, 22:19:55
Quote from: the voice of silence
Ap Friends,

If you take the time out and go back to the day that you came across OBE - how did you react, what was the reason why you wanted to learn, did you think that this would take you this far years down the road. Did you really understand that with these experiences, how you could help change and love the physical/astral worlds?

What was your true prime-moving force behind to project? How did it really change your life and have helped others?


In my early 20s I read about OBEs and decided to try having them. Main reason was just curiosity. I didn't have patience to train regularly, I just read about them and did some training. That wasn't succesful but in one morning I had spontaneous OBE. It gave me enough proof that OBEs are a real thing and there is life after death. Since then I haven't had enough time or interest to really practice, but I have done some meditation, received interesting visions, lucid dreams and little ESP.

I have also read Ian Stevenson's books and to me his research on reincarnation has far more valuable evidence on survival after death than OBEs or NDEs. OBEs are best way to personally verify these things, but it's not very wise to talk about OBEs to all people. I have told only about Stevenson's reincarnation research and other "scientific enough" stuff to other people. If I would talk about my own experiences, they would think that I'm crazy.

Having an OBE and achieving proof of soul's existence hasn't really changed my view of life dramatically, but rather added to it some positive elements. In short, I had same values and moral etc. but after spiritual experiences I got knowledge, that has strengthened my view of life. I know now that my ancestors understood how universe works. I am more motivated to become better human and help my family, friends and also my folk. I am also more calm and adversities in life don't bother me as much as before.
20  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / FEAR on: April 09, 2006, 18:33:23
Quote from: Stookie
Reincarnation research proves that ego does exist and ego is immortal.


Here's what I mean. The alter-ego I created here, "Stookie". I could become him and forget who I really am. Start living my regular life as him. But that's not who I am. It's an illusionary ego I created for myself.

So as we're here on earth, we are again playing that role, so totally into it that we forget who we really are, that we in a sense, created ourselves. After death at some point return to who we really are, integrating what our ego has experienced into our real selves. Then creating a whole new ego for a whole new life experience to integrate into ourselves again.

The most frightening thing about this concept is that my ego, I, do not want to believe that I'm not "real" like I thought I was, and that I'm really somebody or something else.

Perhaps it's the term "ego", that creates confusion in this case. One can say, that same soul has many egos during various incarnations, but I don't think so. I meant that ego and soul are not separate things. When one dies, his or her soul leaves mortal body for the last time. In this stage, soul has same personality, as previous incarnation, but it also remembers previous identities and realizes, that it has existed before previous incarnation. When soul reborns in a new body, it has same ego as previous personality, as a foundation. When child grows, his/her genetics and environment affect  in ego's further development. Therefore in my opinion same soul doesn't have many egos, but insted ego, that changes all the time. Maybe it would be better to use word "self" instead of ego, but hopefully I made my statement understandable.
21  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / FEAR on: March 31, 2006, 20:01:19
Quote from: Stookie

Some people believe that the ego doesn't really exist. It's an illusion created by our perception and makes us feel like an individual and separated from the world around us. The extinction of the ego wouldn't be death, but liberation. So in this case, the biggest fear of all would be the ego's fear of its own extinction.

They can believe whatever they want, that doesn't change the fact that ego does exist. Reincarnation research proves that ego does exist and ego is immortal. I don't believe in new age stuff or Eastern philosophies or Judeo-Christian religions etc. at all.

Ego's extinction is death. There is no way around that.
22  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / FEAR on: March 30, 2006, 23:11:16
Quote from: cardio
Hi SS_Patrick, I can't understand why is negative that stuff about "we all are one". I feel like you could be right, but I can't say why. Maybe because that words of we are one, could drive to the destruction of our own ego and this would make sheeps of us?
Anyway, maybe you can have a strong ego, and you can feel like a part of whole universe. We are influencing and being influenced every time.

Exactly. I am sure that strong ego is needed for spiritual development. I don't mean that selfishness and "me me me" - attitude is desirable. One can have strong ego and still be helpful and friendly towards other humans. By "we are all one" I meant theories which propose that we are not individuals but merely parts of "god" etc. and our meaning of life is to merge back to the god (or light etc.) and die.

Your last two sentences describe quite well what I'm trying to say.
23  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / FEAR on: March 30, 2006, 22:23:33
""We are one" doesn't mean we are the same.  It means we are part of the same thing: Not only do we exist, we are existence.  We don't have to be the same to be part of it all.  This is not fear inducing, except when you think the only real part of you is the part that is different than others."

It is fear inducing, if one believes, as I wrote earlier, that one has to "merge" with "god" or whatever and die. To lose one's individuality is to die. There are some mystics and gurus who claim that we are all the same and there are also many other "enlightened" people, who promote false theories and in reality they are only interested in their followers money. Your definition of "we are one" is different than those concepts that I mentioned as false theories. Therefore there is no need to argue about that.

I want also clarify, that if a healthy grown up man or woman is stupid enough to believe in some cheater's BS theories, it's his/her fault. But there are many christian, satanist, new age and UFO(and many more) cults, where they indoctrinate little children with their ideas. And that is what I meant by criminal.  

"But if you break up you body into cells, and those into molecules, and those into atoms, and those into quantum particles, which are really interference wave patterns, then you will realize that everything is made out of energy- the same energy that makes the sun also makes you.  So we are all part of the same oneness.  This is physics, pure and simple."

Yes, and we are still separate people with separate souls even though we are connected to everything.

"The reason that communism was such a disaster is that it was a totalitarian regime- it propagandized an idea but it practiced another.  Since no one had individual rights, only "what is good for the collective" became 'what I say is good for the collective. '  It only pretended to give equal rights to everyone, but it actually gave total rights to whoever was in charge of the collective.  Propaganda and rethoric aside, it was no different than any feudal system."

Communism was a stillborn idea, and the fall of Soviet Union had it's economic reasons too, but that's not relevant to this topic.
24  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / FEAR on: March 23, 2006, 20:05:27
"how does this theory cause fear?"

It can cause fear to people, who don't know how things really are. Just like christians, who believe in hell fear that they have to go there after they die, people who believe that they will merge into "light" or "god" or whatever fear that they must merge and die.

"Not only mystics have this theory, scientists also have it."

No they don't. Most scientists don't believe in spiritual reality. If you refer to quantum physics etc, that's a different thing. I don't know jack about quantum sciences, but I know that even though all living things are made of atoms we are still not the same. I'm me, not Bill Gates, Mike Tyson or cow or fly. I'll admit that in spiritual level all things could be made of consciousness, light, spirit etc, but we are still not the same.

When people will act like individuals and not like clones, great things will happen. Just look what happened to Soviet Union. They tried to make people to live like parts of a greater whole, but they didn't succeed, because humans are individuals. In the end individualism will always win.
25  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / FEAR on: March 23, 2006, 14:56:40
Fear is definitely a negative thing. Once you realize that all this "we are one" propaganda is a lie, you will be relieved from fear.

Mystics, "gurus" etc. who present enslaving false theories (like "we are one" or "we are only drops in the ocean" etc.) to their followers only add fear in people's minds. In my opinion this kind of brainwashing is almost criminal.

Only scientific research and lucid OBEs will bring real knowledge, and when faith is replaced by knowledge, fear will vanish. When I realized without a doubt, that we are immortal and that we are all individuals (not just parts of some greater whole), it had very positive effect on my life. I'm more calm, creative and friendly towards other people than before. Once more and more people realize our true nature, useless conflicts will surely diminish.
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