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1  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: Spiritual alchemy on: May 16, 2016, 16:23:07
Congratulations   cool
2  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Pulse Island! / Re: New possible project similar to Astral Pulse Island but more like Earth on: May 14, 2016, 03:37:07
I would say it would be good to invoke Campbell's game analogy again-

Within a game world, there is an internally consistent set of physics that governs events there. The physics of the game world are not universal laws that govern all of reality, they are a set of rules which this particular bit of reality mostly obeys.

The physics thing might work along the same lines. There exist a set of rules that seem to govern the interactions of matter and energy here, which makes this a physical world (it has physics). No one would suppose the laws which govern this place govern all of reality, any more than they would the game. The laws of a game world are arbitrary. So too might the physical laws of this place be. It may be accurate to think of this place as a kind of simulation which results from using arbitrary laws.
3  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Pulse Island! / Re: New possible project similar to Astral Pulse Island but more like Earth on: May 13, 2016, 08:25:15
Of course astral obeys the laws of physics, such as quantum. Its part of the universe.

The word "physics" and "physical" have the same root. Only physical things can have physics by definition.

So either:

a) if a projection environment is governed by a system of physics, it is therefore physical

b)if a projection environment is non-physical, it doesn't have physics

I don't think it is obvious at all that a projection environment would have physics, much less the same quantum physics as here- in fact I would think assuming this would be counterintuitive.

Maybe what you mean to say, is a projection environment is probably governed by some manner of laws (not necessarily physical laws)? That seems likely to be true.
4  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: will justice ever lead to peace on: April 23, 2016, 21:44:25
"Justice" is one of those words that gets people into trouble... not the least of which because different people think of different concepts of it, and then have a conversation about it as though everyone else in the conversation has the same concept in their head as they do.

So to even start the conversation, the definition being used must be discussed and agreed on first.

That is primarily what Plato's Republic was about actually... figuring out a definition for the concept of justice that makes sense.

Thrasymachus, one of Plato's opponents in the discussion, didn't believe there was such as thing as justice. He asserted that when people use that word, they are really talking about the tendency of the stronger to force their will on the weaker through law (thus he called justice the "advantage of the stronger"). Sadly, in my country this seems to be a large part of what law is for.

His answer by the way, was sort of strange to modern ears. He basically said that justice was when everyone did the job they were best suited to (everything in its proper place), and that within a single individual, when that person was motivated by appetites, but ruled by reason tempered by noble emotions.

Plato's idea of justice was more about what people contribute to society.

I think the modern concept of justice is more concerned with everyone receiving what they are believed to be due... be it money, or debt, reward, punishment, etc. But of course that opens up a whole new discussion about what people actually deserve, and how we know this.

A non specific example. If you had two factions, each with competing belief systems. If those of both factions were acting justly, they would operate with the understanding that the others beliefs are as legitimate as their own and would leave out ideas of who is right or wrong. By acting justly you would commit to a personal examination of the situation where you try imaginatively to see through the others eyes. To cultivate empathy, to nurture it and to take satisfaction in its growth in yourself is to be just. When you you look out of the eyes of another and see yourself, you will act justly.

This idea of justice has more to do with Plato's concept than the modern notion I think, insofar as it is concerned with how a person would best act, rather than what they are due.

I agree with it to a point, but of course there is the caveat that not every opposing position is justified or defensible. For instance, say that I am arguing to you that you do not exist. From your perpective, questions of solipsism aside, you know conclusively that you exist. Other people will be demonstrably wrong, and in situations that will have major consequences. Learning to understand their perspective is helpful, and it will help explain where they are making errors, and how to best reason with them, but I think often this does not mean that we should consider their position equally valid alongside our own. 

But outside of that, the principle applies pretty broadly. To use my own country as an example again, I think people in the US are often guilty of not fully understanding the viewpoints of their political opponents. People surround themselves with like-minded people, and frequent the same media outlets and idea exchanges. Very few people are reasonable enough to learn how their "enemies" think.
5  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Dark or light themes when reading about altered states? on: April 13, 2016, 11:45:23
You mean like... graphically dark? Like dark background, light text?

I expected you to be talking about something else... like dark vs light content, whatever that might mean, lol.

I think I prefer dark background, so I will vote assuming that is what you mean  wink

6  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Munroe hemi synch cd on: April 12, 2016, 04:32:49
From what I have seen, binaural beats can be a helpful tool, but you still have to do the work too. The Monroe hemi-sync ones are good, but not so much better that they justify price, in my opinion.

Net frequency of 4-8 hz  is where projections are believed to mainly happen- in theta, or early delta states.
7  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Does marrying a divoiced women with 3 kids have spiritual benefits? on: March 26, 2016, 01:52:59
doesn't the law of attraction work for someone being generous

This is the point that is tripping you up.

I will say it again.

When one person gives something, in expectation of receiving something else, that event is called a sale, or a trade. We are not talking about generosity in a case like that, so take that out of the equation.

What you are really asking here is whether the Law of Attraction can be counted on as a means of exchange, like Paypal.

The answer is... maybe? I don't see how what you are asking can be truly answered. It is basically impossible to collect data on. All we have are anecdotes of times people believe they were granted various boons. If it really functions as the concept of the "LoA" suggests, then the benefits could well be across time and space, which makes collecting data even more meaningless.  My suspicion is that anyone who claims to objectively know things such as the efficacy of the LoA in general has probably made many assumptions they can't justify.

You are asking the wrong questions to be sure. The first answers that No-leaf and Xanth gave were pretty good, and get to the heart of things here.

Re-read every answer that anyone has given you in this thread.

The answers will repeat themselves if you keep asking the same questions  wink
8  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Does marrying a divoiced women with 3 kids have spiritual benefits? on: March 25, 2016, 22:51:02
I guess I am still a bit confused as I have been taught as we all have that in the law of attraction what you desire you get. So if I desire a reward for my generosity won't I get one? What gives?

Is the hypothetical exchange you are describing generosity? It sounds more like a trade, or a purchase, if you really think about it.

9  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: I'm back On my Spiritual Path. Need Motivation. on: March 19, 2016, 07:27:31
I don't need a video. I need someone to train with.

How do you know?

Sometimes we have a teacher or companion... sometimes we find our own ways.
10  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Does marrying a divoiced women with 3 kids have spiritual benefits? on: March 17, 2016, 09:29:54
Then my work here is done.
11  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Does marrying a divoiced women with 3 kids have spiritual benefits? on: March 16, 2016, 04:54:00
i agree nothing is ever black and white

Just a little bit here- notice that this is a self-defeating statement?

It is a logical contradiction to say nothing is ever black and white, because the declared non-existence of black and white situations is itself a black and white situation that you declare by making the statement, you see?

It is similar to saying "never say never", or when Yoda says, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes", because Yoda declares himself a Sith by his own rule, while making an absolute about Sith themselves  wink


My greater point here, relates back to Plasma's situation.

Are interpersonal relations a simple matter? Hardly.

Are there some things about them that are clearly black and white? I think so: if a decision has a bad outcome for the majority of those affected by it, it should be avoided. That is as close to as black and white as I can see things being.
12  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Does marrying a divoiced women with 3 kids have spiritual benefits? on: March 13, 2016, 08:40:56
If you love her, "what you gain from the situation" won't even factor into the equation.

This is sort of what I was thinking too.

It sounds to me like you are searching for some positives to outweigh what sounds like a situation with a lot of negatives to you in your mind.

It sounds like you should be focusing on whether you love this person, and whether you are comfortable entering into this situation. Doing arcane spiritual calculus in your head is not helping anyone here.

Ask yourself if it is the best thing for all five people involved in this equation. If it isn't, then the choice is simple.

13  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: A question about binaural beats on: March 03, 2016, 05:23:17
Yes, there may be the placebo effect to some degree.

The theory, is that they help a person get into a certain frequency of brain waves. For instance, delta waves happen at 1-5 hz. Being entrained into the delta or theta state by having your brain compare two different waves may well be a real thing.

It must be noted that being in a certain brain state, and a projection are two different things.

So do they "produce" projections? Absolutely not. Can they help facilitate a person reaching the brain state where projections can happen more easily? This seems plausible at least to me.
14  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: What do christians think about this stuff? on: February 10, 2016, 09:52:44
In fact, what do Russians think about Disco Dance?

If you are a Christian, why rely on what other Christians think? Are you okay with delegating your thinking to masses of people like this for other things too?

If you are not a Christian, what does it matter to you? Lots of people think lots of bizarre things about metaphysics. Almost all of those things are certain to be wrong. I am certain most of what is believed here on this site is probably wrong too.

Just have to think for yourself, no real way around it!  wink
15  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Possession on: January 28, 2016, 17:15:22
If you were able to possess me what would you make me do.

Ooohh, kinky.

I'd make you live a moral and just life.  Wink

Can a person live an ethical life if they are being forced to do it? I feel like the key to ethics is choice.
16  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: What is Best in Life on: January 24, 2016, 14:23:46
I have had several friends from Venezuela over the years. I remember the stories of the Chavez years.

There were elections... but there would be hell to pay, were it found that someone in your family had not voted for Chavez that year.

Something few people in the west understand, but I am certain you know well, is that in a region with many factions and warring groups, a brutal dictator is often the the safest and most productive form of rule. My own country seems to look upon dictators with contempt, but we have seen multiple instances now of the the mayhem that ensues when that dictator is removed by outside forces, and no strong force is there to take his place. There must be a man who rules by strength of fear. He brings order by being too powerful and too viscous to resist. Somewhere along the line, things may cool down enough that men like that are no longer needed, and gentler forms of order may arise. But yet in very developed places, that order still remains. Putin is clearly one such man. 

I hope that Venezuela may get the form of the government that its people desire someday soon.

Crime from the government, and constant crime from the streets is a rough lot to bear.

How do you fight Fire? More Fire? You let it burn until there is nothing to burn? You burn with it? Or you just throw a big huge massive planet size bucket of water in the age of aquarius...

This is a hard question indeed.

If you are certain that you truly must fight the fire, history shows us that it is best to do it with trickery and deception. Fighting an enemy head on, on his terms is the most expensive form of fight. Best to trick him into wasting his resources... marching his men to a place they are not needed... leaving him confused about where your own power and forces actually are... underestimating where the real threats are. The greatest form of this technique is to trick the enemy so badly that the fight never happens at all. Everyone wins in this case.

But what do I think is the greatest tool against the fire of all? If you have the luxury, and the time, it seems to be ideas that win in the end. The most persuasive ideas... the ones that spread the fastest. Your enemy has no army if his soldiers refuse to fight by principle. The people will rearrange and realign to bolster the ideas they hold most valuable. The great religions show us this clearly. It has always been true, and I expect it always will be.

I support you all through your hard times down South.

17  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: What is Best in Life on: January 24, 2016, 07:41:25
But you must take into account I do not know the costumes, and traditions of that epoch.

The story this snippet is from is historical fantasy, so there is a mixture of fact and imagination going on there, that might confuse things a bit. I think you are right to say these folk probably represent the Mongols.

To their families and town they are Heroes. To their enemie's families, warriors, assasins, usurpers, thiefs, etc.

To put it Platonicly, perhaps these men have indeed found their best selves. Those that stand behind them and depend on them would find that hard to argue with.

The piece is fantasy, but I think it does represent reality for the majority of mankind's history.

We live in another time and place though. If that is what was best for them, is there something new best for us?
18  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / What is Best in Life on: January 23, 2016, 23:39:22

What do all of you think?

Is Arnold right, or is he wrong?

Were the two answers given the same or were they different?

I think this question is both a trap and liberation.

What does everyone feel is best in life?
19  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Goodbye Goblin King, and Thanks for the Sweet Tunes! on: January 18, 2016, 01:07:04
I thought some of you might appreciate this.

As you know, David Bowie just passed this week. He died of a cancerous malignancy at age 69.

The remarkable thing here though, is that he released an entire album two days before he died, on his birthday.

More remarkable still, with legendary poise, he wrote a whole album about his own immediate death, and his embracing of it. I can't recall another time this has ever happened... where another musical artist has turned the lens of their art to focus on their own imminent death. It truly seems to be a unique and surreal thing, and a priceless gift to be dropped into the hands of such a musical genius.

Bowie even managed to film a video for the titular single:

Bowie joins us here as a blind prophet, with substitute button eyes, as a vestal virgin takes Major Tom's jewel-encrusted skull on a pilgrimage, and dancers convulse in spirited rapture. Pretty other-worldly imagery, to put it lightly.  

And then the chorus:

Something happened on the day he died
Spirit rose a metre and stepped aside
Somebody else took his place, and bravely cried
(Iím a blackstar, Iím a blackstar!)

You can read into that what you will.

I choose to see it as a celebration of the act of a musical artist discarding themself, and channeling the universal persona and voice. When you stand up on the stage, the person you were is gone. In your body, is a new being. It is very much a metaphysical ritual. His physical death is thus rendered meaningless, as he already died and was reborn all those decades ago.

I am sure it admits of many other interpretations as well.


Goodbye Goblin King, and thanks for the sweet tunes!

20  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Who can you trust in the astral as a true source of real knowledge? on: January 16, 2016, 06:44:22
Up to you!

Reply if you feel it is meaningful for you to do so, and you think it would benefit others or further the discussion wink
21  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Visions of Evil Faces on: January 15, 2016, 18:07:59
I have a feeling you will keep seeing these faces for a while. Then suddenly you won't!  wink

It sounds as though you are a long way toward not seeing them, by not applying much significance to them. Completely disregarding them I think will precede not seeing them at all!

It is probably something like what happens when a toddler swears, in imitation of a relative. If the family gets angry, and scolds the child, or in any way has a strong reaction, the child will realize the word has power, and will keep using it. If the child uses the word, and someone merely glances over, and no real reaction at all is given, the child will probably abandon saying the word again.
22  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Keeping Score in Life and Spirituality on: January 15, 2016, 00:36:15
This is a topic I have had in the back of my mind for a while here. I have noticed that there is about a 50-50 divide here on this site. About half here seem to be conscious of this concept, and others may be overlooking it.

People have a built-in mechanism for creating social hierarchies in their head. They want to arrange the people around them on a ladder... some of them below, some above; this may have developed as a helpful evolutionary tactic for helping humans find a mate with the same social standing as they, or just one notch better. But the problem is... how does a person keep score? Evolution did not provide ideas for this. Most people will invent their own variables that they judge others by. Generally, it will be something that they score themselves highly in, so that they can mentally place themselves in a high social standing with respect to most of their peers.

It is easy to see what categories people are keeping score in, based on what they are pursuing in life. Some people keep score primarily in financial assets. There are people really into body building, that will heavily de-value other people if they are not decked out in massive musculature. There are those people who value people by race or ethnicity, and generally every other race is below their own on the ladder. Other people will keep score in the area of "achievements"... things like the portfolio history of an artist or the discography of a composer or musician.

I think that spiritual practice is something like this for many people. They take survey of those around them, and place them on a ladder hierarchy based on how "spiritually advanced" this or that person is. "Achievements" such as mastering projection (as those here are concerned with), developing strong remote viewing abilities, psychic phenomena of various classes, etc, are used as a sort of scorecard to determine that person's worth. You can tell this when some members will look upon other members with deference, rather than treating everyone with the same common courtesy.

Why am I saying all of this?

Well, for me I think that these practices should be about improving one's own life, and their ability to love and serve others around them. The score-keeping aspect can potentially get in the way of all of that.

For instance, are you meditating for 3 hours a day because it is producing significantly more benefit than meditating for 2 hours (of 45 minutes)? Or is it possible that you are meditating this long because, in your mind, it is what "spiritually advanced people do", and you want to be a spiritually advanced person, and thus decide that you ought to be meditating for this long as well?

Have you decided that those experiencing projections several times a day, rather than the monthly projection you have, are significantly more advanced than you, and that you need to learn to have this same degree of frequency in order to be "at their level"?

Have you decided that there is a certain way that "spiritual people" behave, and you immediately apply mental demerits to others that act outside of this image? (JP Sears covers this subject brilliantly in this satirical video, nailing a laundry list of these same points:  ).

I very much fell into this trap when I began spiritual practice around the age of 13. I was very concerned with advancing my "abilities". I had read in books and scriptures about the achievements of the holy people of ages past and present. I wanted to be such a person too. I wanted to be as loving, as balanced, and as distinguished in their abilities as they were. It took me several years to see through my errors, and to realize that the first two are worthy goals, and the third is meaningless. That is when I started to reap the greatest benefit of all from my practices. I quickly learned the joy of mere existence... a kind of quiet rapture that I carried with me always. I learned to become focused on trying to say what is best possible thing for others to hear in any given conversation. Now I have not always been successful in this. But I generally catch myself when I am saying something for non-altruistic reasons, and attempt to recognize these tendencies in myself for the future. 

Now I am absolutely not saying don't set goals. Rather what I am getting at is that it may be worth examining what causes you to set a goal. Am I setting this goal to genuinely help myself or others? Is it possible that I am pursuing goal X at least partially to feel that I have achieved, and that I can count myself as having more worth on the social ladder? What things am I doing throughout the day are possibly only being used as a crutch to support a stronger mental image of myself, or persona to others around me?

I think it is good to be conscious of this concept for many reasons. If we realize that we are valuing those around us by some artificial scale, and then discontinue this practice, it opens up new doors for us to relate to these others directly as people, and without the clutter of titles or ranks (or some similarly formal system in our minds). We may stop mentally penalizing others for failing to meet our own image of what a spiritual person does. We may realize that much of our own practice is actually ego-gratification. We are focused on "achievements" and gaining social value, and this keeps us focused on the abstract future, rather than on being present to experience the brilliance of the current moment, as I think is well-understood here. All kinds of unseen burdens may be instantly removed from an individual. I think many people realize that the more mental attachments and clutter a person is experiencing, the less at ease they will generally find themselves, and potentially the less able to interact with others with the intention of saying and doing what is best for those others at all times.

I say all of this because I think it may be of genuine value to many here to reflect on these ideas, or to remember them again.

I hope this little bit is helpful, and welcome discussion or debate on the subject!
23  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Who can you trust in the astral as a true source of real knowledge? on: January 09, 2016, 10:22:41

As far as how would I know an enlightened one if I am not enlightened? Well there's no way to truly know for certain. But what I can say is that from reading peoples testimonies some of whom aren't selling any books or products that there seems like a fundamental shift within ones psyche that occurs when they meditate quite a lot and consistently, and it wouldn't even have to be at the height of the meditation experience. And many of people have experienced this shift. So logically if one continues on this path the only logical next step in this series has got to lead to some higher state of being, enlightenment being at the top of the end of the spectrum. It's not like we are talking about an experience within Christianity that is contingent on God to intervene and make a change. With meditation anyone can experience it. I have meditated much more than the average person and I have gotten a glimpse of this glory myself. So even I have had a small taste of what is available to everyone.

The questions are more rhetorical than anything. The common theme I am getting at, is that this becomes a question of faith. You must have faith that enlightenment is a real thing, and that it has value, in order to pursue it. Why must you have faith? Because you can't know if you have not experienced it yourself. You cannot surmise that it exists from your own experiences. You cannot trust other's accounts of it.

I believe faith is a dangerous thing. Faith by nature means to believe something that you don't know or have proof of.

And there are so many things that we can know. We can inductively know that it is wrong to cause harm to others if it can be avoided. As you say, we can know that meditation produces positive changes in moderate practitioners, because we can conduct studies that clearly demonstrate this.

I find a lot of value in reading through the older texts. They can suggest pathways that few people consider today. But when there are so many things that we can know for sure, so many ways we can spend our time helping others and ourself, faith seems like an enemy that can lead us astray. People do not recognize it for the true danger it really is. Why spend your time chasing after a concept that comes to you in Sanskrit scrolls? Something that is claimed to be inaccessible in even an entire human lifetime? Seems like a huge gamble for a fabled pay-off.

My abstract friends in this life have been compassion, reason and evidence. Why not just commit yourself to loving others and to developing the self-discipline to know the truth and discard falsehoods and presumptions? Enlightenment is a purported, theoretical good. There are known real goods all around, and well in reach, and they take a month, or a year, not 40 lifetimes!

And I find it a little ironic that your name is stillwater.

Street that I lived on for a while. An obscure joke really  wink
24  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Interdimesional travelling on: January 08, 2016, 05:50:06
I appreciate all of that... but usually when you are looking to explain an unexplained event, you start at the most probable and mundane/plausible explanations, eliminate those, and you slowly work you way up the chain to increasingly more implausible things. The whole Sherlock Holmes routine.

Is it possible that the monitors traveled interdimensionally, or that you traveled to another reality? Sure, why not.

But the thing is... invoking interdimensional travel is like explanation 579 on a long list of possibilities. There are huge list of things ahead of interdimensional travel on that list.

It is far more likely that you are being lied to by seemingly truthful people. Orders of magnitude more likely. After that, comes mistakes, oversights. After that, comes a fallible memory. You said it was a year back. How can you be sure you remember things clearly that far back? I have a fairly sharp memory, but memories get corrupted. I would not be positive about a small detail from a year back. Hell, it is comparitively more likely that some person put the monitors there to trick only you, then took them back. That is like number 46 on the list maybe. Even that would be far more likely, you see?

How should you number your list? Order it based upon how many unknowns must be true in order for each example to be possible. Say for example you were being lied to. That requires 0 unknowns in order to be possible. We know that people lie, and we know that people sometimes have motive to lie. What about the idea that bigfoot took the monitors? Several unknowns... firstly, that there is a bigfoot; next, that bigfoot takes an interest in anonymous electronic devices.

What if I told you those monitors were probably aliens pretending to be monitors? If you were like most people, you would ask me how I knew that, and more importantly, why I had not considered something that required less unknowns to be true in order to be possible. 

We have these confirmation biases built into our mental filters. We are always looking for opportunities to validate our own personal hypotheses.

It might sound like I am being a killjoy here, but it really is important to be rational about our theories and explanations about the world.
25  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Who can you trust in the astral as a true source of real knowledge? on: January 08, 2016, 01:56:48
What is Enlightenment? Enlightenment (Bodhi) is a transformative experience through which the mind is enabled to see and understand the eternal Truth, Known as Dhamma (Dharma). Metaphorically speaking before Enlightenment, one is sleepwalking through life, then after enlightenment, one is Awake, and then can see things as they truly are.

And have you ever met a person like this? How would you know them from a person who only seemed to be enlightened? If you are not enlightened yourself, how do you know that others have ever been, rather than have merely claimed to have been, or else had others posthumously claim that of them? It seems like a "takes one to know one" situation, and if that is true, how do we know it is a real thing if we aren't enlightend ourselves?

At what point will you say to yourself, "I am really seeing things as they truly are"? How would you know that you were not mistaken about something, or self-deceived?
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