Lol. I am definitely not at all in support of the idea the footage was faked, only that it is possible, however narrow that possibility is. I think you'll see that if you spend enough time with the sort of arguments I tend to make, a common thread is that I am generally very reluctant to discard possibilities, because to do so generally requires a near-godly amount of insight and knowledge. The admission that I might be wrong and the footage is faked is more a statement about the limitations of my insight than about the footage itself.

For instance, it is possible that there is no such country as Ecuador. It might be a fabrication between map-makers and god-knows who. Maybe every person from Ecuador you have ever met is an actor, if you have met any at all. Perhaps the land occupied by Ecuador on the map actually belongs to Columbia or Peru. Maybe the story of Ecuador was created by chocolate companies who want to disguise the fact that their chocolate strains really came from Brazil.

I can't exclude the possibility of the moon footage being faked for the same reason I can't be sure there is really an Ecuador- but it belongs to the same class of possibilities to me... pretty damn slim chance, haha.

I find it amusing that we anthropomorphise aliens... trying to second guess their agenda based upon our own paranoia... assuming that the government are privy to their knowledge etc.

We could only be second guessing their agenda if they had for instance told it to us themselves... at best be are making a long series of first guesses, lol.

I think to assume governments are in on this is only natural, because it is the only narritive that has been given to us that includes extraterrestrials. I mean yes you also have the touchy-feely channeled stuff, but with that stuff you need to take it on faith that you are being dictated to by aliens. The direct testimony of people who claim to have had experiences with them on earth are the only ones subject to possible future corroberation in the short term.

Now either we have visitors coming, or we don't. If we don't, everyone who has spoken up is a liar (which may be true, but makes alot of liars); if we do have visitors, then everything we have heard about them comes from witnesses such as discussed in this thread, and literally every one of them bar a small few mentions governments in connection to them, so it is sort of a starting point; if you believe any of the witnesses may not be liars, then governments are almost without fail involved somewhere.

To me paranoia would be taking neutral information and extracting a negative or dangerous connotation to it; but in the case of these testimonies, it isn't the viewer that is suggesting the government is hiding something, they are being told that by every speaker, so the information is not neutral to start with on that issue. So that must mean the whole disclosure and testimony movement itself is a movement of paranoia if anything about it is. But then if every source is discredited as a paranoid one, then how does a person figure out what is going on at all? If you want any data to evaluate at all, it is really your only option.

I don't think the future was in danger if the pyramid wasn't dismantled for road gravel though.

I think you grasped well enough in the other thread that capitalist interests are often at odds with the interest of human society as a whole.

Yes, it does make you wonder.

I mean some of those old guys are unfortunately liars... but all of them?

It sure doesn't seem like a game to him.

But again that can easily be changed.  We just quite simply have to change our Self.

The End of Queen Maab

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsRQSazjl4U

Yes this is relevant speculation.
But if ETs can 'do what they want' why don't they just bypass the cartels and speak directly to the populations of the planet.  Certainly the ability to do so is obviously here, via the airways.

Why - based on the info circulating - are they working with the Powers that be secretively? 

It may be a bit confusing the way I worded it, but I am describing a set of 4 distinct possiblities, each with their own peculiar circumstances.

In the fourth possibility I listed, the visitors don't have any interest in speaking with anyone, they just want to do what they are doing; in this possibility, the governments and world powers are the ones who hold the knowledge of it because they were the ones who had the power to locate and take control of all the possible crash sites, and they are the owners of most of the reliable tracking instruments.

Because you mention it, I suppose we can entertain a fifth possibility: the visitors are real, and they have an agenda very much their own, and they don't want any noisy resistance; they tell world governemnts (because they are the ones capable of mounting the biggest and noisiest resistance, of course) that if they keep things quiet, and don't load up the cavalry, they will not destroy our society outright, but just do whatever it is they do. Essentially they are speaking to the governments because they are seen as the adults in the room, since they hold most of the power, and telling them if you do as we say, no one has to get hurt much. If the government came out and said there are alien overlords out there doing as they please, in this situation the population would be much rowdier with regards to the visitors, and that is not what they are looking for.

But again, as you state importantly, this is all speculation. I am mainly trying to reason out what likely scenarios would look like.

Can you give an example of how free energy would collapse society?  Wouldn't it be more likely to transform society?

I think it would do both, in different timeframes.

In the short term, the mere knowledge that the balance of power has now shifted would be pretty devasting to stability I think; suddenly, very poor and powerless countries have the means to rise up to the level of what may have been their past oppressors; when you take energy costs out of the equation, suddenly there are many more viable contenders on the stage, and all of them want different things. Twenty different types of interest groups all now have the power to fight for their causes in earnest. In the space of about 10 years after the tech came out, the world is shaken by war. Most wars in the past were fought over resources, but not all. Now that resources are taken care of, there are only ideologies left. You have the capitalist side, the socialist side, the zealous crusaders for an Islamic world government, or a Catholic one, or any other of a score of -ism's. I think eventually we would grow out of that in 50 more years or so, and maybe even end up with a utopian Star Trek society as a result of the new energy tech, but things get ugly before that i think.

If I were part of a group with knowledge of workable new energy tech, I might be motivated to let it out piece by piece, to soften the blow. I would want to release versions of the current tech, but far inferior, to let things catch up at their own pace. Sure, people are dying as a result of want and oppression... but let's not kill off 2/3 of everyone in a massaive slugfest by doing the equivalent of giving an arguably medieval society atomic weapons.

I want to see humanity gloriously uplifted from pettyness by technology, but that can't happen in 4 minutes... it will be a slow and painful process, like most things humans do. It isn't so much our tech that is wanting... we are selves lacking alot too. If we wanted, we have the tech now to care of everyone several times over. I think if you want to think about what new energy will do for the world, maybe an important question to lead off is why don't we have peace and stability now, if we already have enough...

Lol, I don't think they are the sorts of orbs you might be thinking of Roman, these ones are actual physical objects.

Indeed... and that seems like yet another incentive for those orchestrating a silence to keep it- they don't want to blow what remaining credibility they still have with some people.

I mean it really would be a bombshell announcement. It would be like telling your spouse you have 4 other children- you lose all credibility, things are never the same afterwards, and the announcement hangs in the air like an unshakeable fog that nothing can get rid of. You don't really feel in a hurry to let something like that out, because there will be consequences.

I am not saying I agree with them for possibly keeping something silent, but I understand human nature enough to see what could possibly motivate it all.

I agree that there is probably some energy tech being kept quiet too... there are dozens and dozens of  inventors trying to file for patents related to energy devices and being told that their work follows too closely with classified materials and that they should thus desist. Whether it is related to a possible extraterrestrial coverup or not is anyone's guess, but regardless of that situation I am sure the government's hundreds of billions spent on black projects has yielded at least some fruit they don't want out. They want an ace in the hole they can play when they feel most pressed.

Yeah, who really knows. I have seen tons of testimony over the years by folks with quite lofty titles attached to their names, so I lean toward the idea that the U.S. government does know more than it lets on, although I am not sure of the extent.

So there are a few salient possiblities:

Firstly, maybe it is all made up, and people are jumping on a money train, although this seems less likely to me.

Maybe they are keeping it hush because of their own ideas of security, or maybe the public is ready to know afterall, and they are biding time.

I don't think alot of people who are rooting for disclosure (not going to lie, I would like to hear from the horse's mouth what is going on too) consider a fourth possibility though, that maybe the government knows just enough to be frightened in their boots of it all.

Consider that maybe they have recovered a few crafts and bodies... maybe even spoken with a few live ones... they know there are saucers out there, and they know they are piloted by little grey dudes... but they don't know ANYTHING else about them... they don't know where they are coming from... they don't know how they are managing to get here... they don't know what their possible agenda is and they are powerless to stop whatever it is they are doing. If you were privy to that kind of knowledge in a high post, would you really be eager to share it? Would you want to admit to people that there is a terrifyingly powerful race of beings out there (or even several), which we know precious little about, that they are doing whatever they want, and that you can't offer the public any protection from anything they might do? I think hearing that would strike fear into the common man's heart quite deeply.

I hate to spread fear, and I hope there are Vulcans up there ready to declare themselves and usher in a golden age... but then maybe things aren't so positive in that regard...

I think you should be skeptical of anyone who says humans "should" eat this or that way. If you need further convincing, you only have to notice that there are a host of such people making polar opposite claims: never eat carbs / only eat carbs; never eath meat / only eat meat; never fruit, only vegetables / mostly eat fruit.

I don't think the science behind any of these claims is robust enough to support such edicts. I mean look how many times eggs have jumped between the always / never dichotomy. When you subscribe to one of these diets, you do so on faith, I am afraid.

That said, I do think fruits have been underappreciated perhaps; research sometimes suggests that the drive to eat sweet things is actually the body's order to eat fruit (which would have been the only sweet thing readily available in most places eons ago), for the reason that fruit is one of the best sources of vitamin C, and humans have a particularly insatiable need for vitamin C, being one of the few animals that doesn't manufacture it.

It doesn't sound very much like it will. It is one man's underfunded futurist idea of what a society should be like.

I agree that resources should be allocated based on concern for priorty needs, but his vision seems very heavy-handed to me. Forcing people to live in giant donuts is not the answer.

Lol, no totally alright.

I have often wondered myself how long it would take a civilization's artifacts and signs of environmental impact to almost totally evaporate. I mean it has to be in the millions... more than 100 million even, because we are still finding artfacts of precambrian life that we assume to be billions of years old.

So how long would it take for all of our stuff to be gone? Our buildings and technology would be eroded to nothingness in about 30 million years I imagine, save for a few choice sites preserved by miracle of circumstance. Our fossilized skeletons would probably remain in small numbers almost forever, but I suppose if there was no reason to think we were a special species they might be overlooked.

I have sometimes supposed it may be possible that a certain race of beings may have come and gone that has reached our level of tech or beyond.. to me though, I would think it would be hundreds of millions of years in the past since we have seen no sign of them... I suppose they would have to be arthropods or something.

The Vatican has been preparing for it for a couple of years now.

 They know that some kind announcement is forthcoming! 

This may well be true.

I used to speak alot with a certain daughter of a Noble Prize winner whom I won't name out of fairness; she was pretty brilliant herself, truth be told. Her area of expertise of all things was supressed Italian philosophies, so she was one of the few allowed to peruse the vatican libraries on her own without supervision. She told me that more than a few times she found documents there totally accidently that describe extraterrestrial contact as though it is a known fact, and the needs to come to terms with it and integrate it into church teachings, not if it is real, but because it is known to be real. A lot of those documents seemed to be making references to what would be assumed first-hand experiences which the author and reader knew in common together. Very strange, if nothing else- the vatican's feelers go much deeper than most people think.

If anyone has had experiences with the extended Catholic liturgy recently, they would also know that there are a few times a year, and once during holyweek that I know of where the priest spends a very long time asking the congregation to pray together for all of god's creatures, and goes through a rather long list, which includes toward the end "our brothers on other worlds". I guess that phrase can be read a number of ways, and most seem to assume it means angels, but very interesting, no?

Yes this could potentially be interesting. I have anticipated this a lot more so than the Sirius documentary, from when they both announced about the same time.

If the faked moon landing theories are laid on the table I won't hesitate to call them out on the wealth of obvious evidence we did.

To me, I don't even really need evidence of this one, lol. I have actually seen the calcuations done, and worked though them- getting an object to the moon and back is actually only ever so slightly harder and more fuel-demanding than getting a satellite into orbit- I don't think the people who argue the moon landing was faked understand space travel or orbital mechanics. I mean yeah, maybe the famous footage was faked, but in principle it isn't that complicated to do it for real. There are around 5-7 nations on earth right now capable of doing it if they wanted in 3 years.