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101  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: If we are all one, does that mean there is no other? on: May 09, 2014, 12:13:51
If 3 = 3, is it also the case that 3 = 3 ?

The answer is contained in the question already, if the question asserts something true as its premise here.

Maybe the One got lonely, and it wanted to be the Many for a while.

Oddly enough, it seems like the fullness of everything implies the experiencing of limits and separations. For instance, one experience is being one of many smaller units under the whole, that the whole couldn't have if it only ever experienced itself as the whole.
102  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Alcohol, life, time travel on: May 06, 2014, 09:20:13
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How is that when we reach this level of drunkenness, that some of us, if not all of us, start wondering how come we have no frakking clue what we are here for? Or even better, how come we start assuming we are here for any reason at all? How come it's always something as beautiful as Zooey Deschanel (or dude equivalent) that gets our minds going about this (with a little, or a lot, of help from alcohol)? Girls, post a dude equivalent and I'll add a link. I really wished anyone could relate to this. In fact, go drink 2 liters of beers and come back. You'll relate to this much better then.

Because the conquest is pretty much complete at this point.

There is something called proximal separation which psychologists speak about with respect to parent-child relationships. The parent is right next to the kid, but something (emotional instability, talking on the phone, "too busy", etc) places that parent a million miles away, and it frightens the child. They are there, but they are utterly inaccessible.

That is the story of modern man and pretty much anything that matters. The media and the corporatocracy have gotten their control of every ounce of a person's time now. In your car going to work? Here, have some commercials, and some terrible music to buy later so you don't have to think too hard about anything. At work? Good, you are running our machine for us, and getting money to buy our products. At home now? Good, watch this TV so we can tell you about what to buy next, or play with this iCrap, or play these mind-numbing games we made for you to take your mind off thinking, or talk on the phone on one of our super deluxe jumbo saver plans, etc.

At all times the victim is either engaged with advertisements, using the products, or watching some prepackaged don't-think-too hard media tailered to their demographic.

When I wander the neighborhoods around my home for hours on end as I care to at times, I think about how many kids I saw out there enjoying life back when I was a kid myself. Not a single one in sight for hours now, on a miraculously temperate day. We both know why.

For most people, it takes a shock, such as being terribly drunk, or some sort of emotional trauma, to temporarily peak outside that veil, and take a gaze at the things that are real, or the things that matter. Everything important to us is right at hand, but like that absent-minded parent, our techno-daze keeps it all so far away.

The people who noticed it when it was well underway were only the cultural poets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duQIG2nKEH8&list=PLraUXdMOSKKFk6_voIgoeelqUBlRxvyD8

Now no one speaks about it at all. No one makes art about the basic or the primal, or the human condition. People are too damaged to even have a conversation with another person in front of them, about anything but the superficial.

Bread and circuses.
103  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Anyone here watching the Cosmos? on: May 05, 2014, 05:51:32
Yeah it seems an entirely plausible explanation to me too. I can't say I "believe" it, because it would be irresponsible in absence of evidence, but I can say it would "fit" what I have seen of the world and what appears to lie beyond it.
104  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: May 05, 2014, 02:27:39
Well I guess it's not time for us as human beings to know the answers yet Stillwater. And I think that the Designer, deity god or whatever put the rocks there for us to ponder not for its own game. I have this comfort blanket of mine which is a belief that everything within our perception has been Created for us like a bit of a training ground. I obviously could be completely wrong but the designer of our reality doesn't lift rocks because it just has consciousness at a level incomprehensible to ours. Now I joined this forum because I want proof my true existence is independant from my body and astral projection would be that proof. And I think in these realms (non physical) is where omnipotence resides. The creation or idea of the rock is more real than wether or not it can be lifted. I'm just waffling now!! What a great topic!

Yeah, as I have pointed out, it is really a question for medieval Scholastics, because they accept the premise by default. Not that relevant to folks like we, who have slightly different views on things. Cockroaches don't really debate sports strategies, and nor do police officers spend their time discussing chemistry in their break times. The people to whom questions like the above belong to mostly live in monasteries and such these days. It isn't really a question about rocks, or burritos, but rather about the conceptual possibility of omnipotence. But then like I said, you have to care about that concept to connect well to the discussion. I am more interested in what kind of music God likes.
105  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: May 05, 2014, 02:09:56
Applying any logic at all, why would there even be a god?

Never said there was here; but the medieval problem Beavis referred to assumes as a premise that there is one, so in order to engage with it, you must assume there is one- otherwise, the question has no relevance   (which is fine too, but isn't really a conversation starter, lol).

As an analogy, suppose I were to say, "How does Santa deliver all the presents in time?" Now a valid response is that Santa doesn't exist, so the question is irrelevant. But that isn't engaging the question- answering it assumes you accept Santa's existence at least for the sake of argument.
106  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: May 04, 2014, 23:34:07
It is pretty hard to know what a deity would have a need to do. Applying that logic, why would a God need to make a physical world full of rocks and stars at all? For reasons we can't pin down for sure, something did make a physical world. But why? Not having a reason for why something happens doesn't prevent it from happening  wink

I bet if a deity could make a rock that deity couldn't lift, finding a good reason to do it is a much simpler task.
107  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Re: Here is Practical Explanation about Next Life, Purpose of Human Life - on: May 04, 2014, 19:11:02
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If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will.

Depends. Some religions will say that God has free will, but chooses to act only rightly. Would you say to the adherents of those religions that God lacked free will because he only behaved one way?
108  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: What happens to the body if spirit leaves and doesnt come back? on: May 04, 2014, 19:07:53
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I think the healthier and more vital a body is, the stronger is the 'magnetic pull' (speaking metaphorically) to get you back to body.

Hence, people who are more ill, probably even fatal illness, might have a less stronger pull and there is more possibility that they one time stay out for good (die). Probably this also applies to old age.

I think this is heavily dependent on the paradigm you ascribe to though. For instance, I tend to think that we never actually leave our bodies and go to some external place, but rather we go to a different corner of our brain which is able to pull in data from metaphysical realities we don't normally experience. You could see how a person taking such a view would not gravitate toward the concept of being trapped outside, since you would never have left.
109  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: May 04, 2014, 19:00:42
The original medieval paradox that Beavis was basing his arguments on was essentially an argument against the existence of omnipotence, which is claimed to be a dilemma with two unaccomadating choices.

Think of it this way: if God was capable of making a stone he couldn't lift, then he wouldn't be omnipotent because he couldn't lift that particular stone. If good wasn't capable of making that stone, he wouldn't be omnipotent because he couldn't make the stone. The same argument applies to anything claimed to possess omnipotence.

Where you take this problem is up to you.

110  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Anyone here watching the Cosmos? on: May 04, 2014, 09:33:49
I can't reasonably say... I got the impression I was in interstellar deep space at the beginning of the experience, but I very well could have been seeing some other form of plane not related to physical space. It was like it was empty, but there was a contentment in the emptiness.

I have heard people who support pan-psychism (all matter is conscious) suggest that base matter possesses "proto-conscious properties" that assemble as the matter becomes more organized. A very basic level would be something like the proto-conscious property of an electron, which might be a simple feeling of contentment and well-being. That assignment might be arbitrary, but recalling that old experience brings to mind the idea that perhaps in a similar fashion, the base void revels in its own formlessness.
111  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: What happens to the body if spirit leaves and doesnt come back? on: May 04, 2014, 08:21:46
Probably something like the last one. I and others have had experiences that seemed to last for actual weeks, but happened all in one night.
112  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Anyone here watching the Cosmos? on: May 04, 2014, 05:18:40
Let's see... one that I recall fairly well from about a decade back:

I was drifting along, after gaining lucidity, in a sort of calm void. It was empty, but there was this sort of abiding joy about it, like existence there was a sort of continual, gentle celebration. As I stared into the distance, the space beyond into the depth gained more features, and I saw a sort of mirroring, like one substrate reflected into another. The closest thing I could think of to compare it to would be those dazzling images of the salt flats in Bolivia, where the wet ground reflects the sky near perfectly, and there is a corridor formed between the two planes of clouds:



The space was full of these pastel-colored clouds drifting by at various speeds, with thick and viscous feel about their movement. The color of the void grew from black emptiness to lush warm tones. I watched them glide on for a very long time, as I waded on a cosmic current. I didn't encounter any celestial bodies, and I may or may not have been seeing a representation of physical space, but that void was paradoxically one of the most full and complete places I have ever been, if that makes sense. I don't think there was any sort of aural component, but the mood of the place was something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOt4ieyPhE

Stare at the image and listen to the track, and then multiply that experience in intensity a few times by having it be the fullness of your awareness, and that was what it felt like.

Not a perfect fit for what you are asking about, because I wasn't exploring Venus or anything like that, but close in some ways I suppose.  wink

113  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Anyone here watching the Cosmos? on: May 04, 2014, 04:26:53
I loved the old Sagan Cosmos, and Sagan in general, and I am also a Neil fan, so the new one was natural for me, hehe.

I don't have a TV, but it is easy enough to find in various places on the net. I have always appreciated connecting science and humanism in this manner.

The experiences you have in celestial settings are what you make them. I think a lot of it has to do with your state of mind when you are there, and what level you are connecting on. I have had experiences of empty space that were both rather dull, and electrifying.

114  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: May 02, 2014, 19:22:15
That is the real question we all ignored.
115  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: May 02, 2014, 18:07:28
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I think this entire paradigm is wrong, because Taoist philosophy has shown me a more encompassing way of looking at things.  Hot and cold oppose each other, but that doesn't mean they don't both exist, they just don't exist at the same place at the same time.  Rather they both need each other to even form a conception of "this or that," otherwise if everything were of equal temperature then we wouldn't need words for different extremes of temperatures.

I think it is important to point out that hot and cold are not contradictions though, or even opposites. They are just heat and less heat. Contradictions usually exist in logic space. A good contradiction would be:

"3 =\= 3"

How could that possibly ever be? How could something not be the same and identical with itself? It is a fundamental law of this universe. I cannot conceive it being true in this universe. It is possible in other universes perhaps, but those universes would be ruled by randomness. Why is that? Well, after you accept a single logical contradiction like that, all things simultaneously become true. Why would that be? Here is an example:

--------------------

-Lets assume the contradiction that "Apples exist", and also, "Apples do not exist".  (A ^ ~A)

-Here are some true statements about our world now:

"Apples exist or All horses are unicorns" ( A v AHAU) [for an or statement, only one of them needs to be true for it to be a true statement, but we know apples exist, so it is safe]

but then... we run into danger here, because also, apples don't exist. When one of the sides of an or statement is false, it forces the other to be true, if it is a true statement. Because we know from before it was a true statement, that means now "All horses are Unicorns" must be a true statement. [ (~A ^ ( A v AHAU))  --> AHAU ]

--------------------

This is a well known logical form. It is the path to proving all things are true once a single contradiction has been accepted. It seems like a kind of logic game, with no application to the universe, but then there isn't a single known contradiction in our universe, so that might tell you something.



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The problem is that contradictions themselves are only limitations within a small range of things, specific points in space-time.  They do not limit the possibilities of larger spectrums of existence, where multiple realities and infinite experiences are possible.

There is no contradiction in saying that the contradictory terms are true but at different times and places, the contradiction arises when they are simultaenous.

I do not think the rock example where God changes worlds to lift the rock beats the original problem though. You see that if God had to create another space-time in order to lift the rock, which he could not do in the original space-time, that means he was not omnipotent, because he lacked the ability to lift the rock in the first space time. That he could lift it in another space-time doesn't absolve him of that, if he was truly omnipotent. Omnipotent doesn't mean he could do all things at some point in time or place, but it means he could do all things in all times and places without limits. If you told me omnipotence meant God could do all things, except move that certain rock over there until he was good and ready to do it by changing it to being in a different universe, I would have to eye that omnipotence with suspicion.


116  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: What just happened ? on: May 01, 2014, 22:59:36
Maybe you got light-headed.
117  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Mental...'attack' on: May 01, 2014, 22:58:27
Why would you wonder about this?
118  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Are there supplements worth doing? on: May 01, 2014, 00:51:38
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No Shamans allowed on the forum. 

You could say the law has written them out of North America. We used to have a tremendous Shamanic tradition here... but then I think people know that story.
119  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Are there supplements worth doing? on: April 30, 2014, 22:11:08
Hi Fusions

Perhaps there are some safe ones out there that exist.

This particular forum tends to be frequented by people practicing cognitive techniques though; to be honest, I haven't seen the kind of knowledge that would be able answer that question responsibly running around here.

Place take a high degree of care though if you intend to experiment. I wish there was a person I could refer you to, but I know of none. The kinds of circles that are versed in herbology paths tend more toward South America.
120  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Can god create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it? on: April 30, 2014, 19:32:56
Aquinas suggested to that problem that God could do anything that didn't imply a contradiction. Making such a rock would be a contradiction argued Aquinas, therefore impossible for God. Aquinas goes on further to explain this doesn't threaten the idea of God's omnipotence because he defines omnipotence as the ability to do all things that are possible.

I am not an Aquinas fan, but if you believe in the deity he did, it seems like a good enough answer to me.
121  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Barbara Lamb and Et's - her presentation will explain a lot of the beings u see on: April 28, 2014, 16:12:18
I have heard regressionists paint both a rosy and a shadowy picture of ET contacts. Some seem to specialize in one or the other, or sometimes have both experiences. To me, there is so hopelessly large a pool of data that it is near impossible to arrive at any final truth from sources like these or channels.

It sort of comes down to accepting the authority of one personage or another when you follow one of these individuals. I enjoy listening to them, to hear the pictures they all paint, but at the end of the day, I can't really take it anywhere.  undecided

But thanks for sharing nonetheless!
122  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Tom Campbell, Free Will & The Afterlife on: April 28, 2014, 16:00:57
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Essentially, a computer/computer program.
The choices made by a computer/program are one of pre-programmed outcomes.  If this... then that happens... that sort of thing.

Yes, but the common idea of a computer doesn't include sense experiences; I think people largely think of computers as a set of mechanical actions occurring by determinate laws. It is funny that you bring that example up, because a lot of the contemporary philosophers of mind-body issues are debating what the criteria for determining a conscious computer would be, and how we could be sure they were having sense experiences, or "qualia" as some other earlier philosophers would call them.

I guess what I am getting at though is that I am trying to form a theory for what defines a consciousness, and what parts are absolutely necessary and core to the definition. For instance, I would surmise that in order to be a consciousness, that something would have to something they were conscious of. It seems to me that that awareness could be either subject oriented or object oriented. A subject oriented awareness would be an awareness that has its own thoughts- its existence is thus self-defined in a narrow sense. An object oriented awareness is aware of things outside itself, namely sense experiences of some kind. To me, these are the only basic criteria for being a simple consciousness, and to have one is sufficient, although a somewhat complex being as ourselves has both and many other attributes.

I think this consciousness you were describing earlier, sounds very much like the classical definition of an "ethical agent". Namely, an ethical agent needs both awareness, and the real ability to make a choice between meaningful alternatives in order to be responsible for making actual ethical decisions (this is opposed by a determinate agent, which although may appear to make choices, is not, and is thus not responsible or culpable for good or bad effects its actions cause).

I am probably quibbling a bit, but the distinctions seem very significant, especially considering that we are all directly engaged in consciousness studies here.
123  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Tom Campbell, Free Will & The Afterlife on: April 27, 2014, 23:47:42
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To be an aware unit of consciousness, free will is required.

I disagree with this bit. Why would this necessarily be the case?

Usually in philosophy, if you want to engage with a thesis like that, you would employ "thought experiments" in support, and in argument against.

Therefore, lets think of exceptions. What would an aware unit of consciousness be that lacked free will? I think I would define that entity as a "perspective". A perspective would be viewing events from a vantage point, but have no control over outcomes, like a sort of viewer, or non-participant. The perspective might be able to reason with itself, form theories or expectations, and in fact would have all of characteristics of what I would expect a "consciousness" to have. Or maybe it might lack some of those features. "Perspective-minus" would have sensory experiences, but not conduct any personal thought or analysis about them. It would be a pure "experiencer". 

Now I can think of answers to this argument I have raised, but I am curious to see what your response might be, so I won't spoil it  wink

124  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Tom Campbell, Free Will & The Afterlife on: April 27, 2014, 19:28:28
I can think of reasons why Tom might believe that. I personally think that our time in physical lives is incredibly important, and that we would regret squandering it, especially for the opportunities it gives us to know others in a very special way.

I can't think of a time he said it, but I can picture it. Could you find a good example in one of his talks? That might provide more context to discuss the idea.
125  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: What exactly are Scamps? on: April 26, 2014, 01:05:37
Maybe a little of both. It really is hard to tell your own creations from things you didn't author, at least for me. "Scamp" was just his term though... it is a general word for a playful childlike thing.
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