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1076  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Members' Artwork on: April 25, 2011, 05:13:05
These are good images, Bedeekin. I am sort of at a loss, since with the second image, the color texture and the lighting has the quality of a very good oil painting, but without any brush-strokes. The gradations, on the other hand, feel computer rendered; for that reason, it seems like they were partially generated by computer. What programs and techniques/media did you use?

The second in particular is extremely vivid and imaginative, and has very developed use of color and light. It looks like it possibly took weeks.
1077  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: The Fate of Frank Kepple on: April 24, 2011, 21:41:03
I don't know if anyone is going to find Frank by now, lol.

This is literally like the great mystey of Astralpulse, it has been going on and discussed for years and years, like who stole the Klopman diamond or something. It started back up in earnest when Xanth published his posts, and more people got to know who he was, but I don't see this ever getting resolved.

I think it comes down to either he can't be found, or he doesn't want to be found.
1078  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / A Saga of Sagacious sages of the Sagami Sea on: April 24, 2011, 11:29:19

Since a rare mood has come over me this morning, I thought maybe we could do something different. Re-reading the Dao de Jing again, after a comment someone left on the forums, and considering all the unfortunate ways in which the book was scrambled, mistranslated, re-arranged, and possibly mixed with other scrolls, I was really admiring the impenetrable density of language, and how it can mean anything to anyone, at times, to the point where a pithy work like that can still be pondered and respected as great wisdom, when its actual words may have been diametrically reversed in meaning through the ages.

Another philosopher of another age, Arthur Schopenhauer felt that the arts could be arranged in a scale to which they represent the divine creative will of the cosmos, and its features. The furthest from the Will were the arts like architecture and sculpture, which were physical and depicted specific physical things in a determinate world. Closer to the Will was paininting, since it is a depiction, rather than a thing in itself, even if its medium is physical, and it is open to multiple meanings and interpretations. Closer still is literature, for it exists only as ideas, with great range of interpretation. Closest to the Will of all is music, being composed of nothing but relationships between events, and representing not ideas, but pure feeling, and open to an extremely broad spectrum of meanings and feelings, meaning many different things at various times to various people.

I was thinking that perhaps some language has the ability, through simaltaneous meaning and inanity, sort of like a koan possesses, to claim for its own this property of music, and to enter the realm of multiplicity of possibility, and pluralistic indeterminacy. So I thought perhaps in this topic we might look for phrases and sentences which possess meaning and indeterminacy at the same time. These phrases can have many legitimate meanings, but none presents itself as primary.  Here is one of my very own crafting grin:

The man of the hill was a woman with few noses, with as many names as children, as many children as noses, and names as plentiful as water in the ocean.

Give it a shot  wink
1079  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: The Fate of Frank Kepple on: April 24, 2011, 07:37:04
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From that my deduction is one of two things:
1. Some sort of value proposition(a logical offer) came about or
2. Debilitating Death

Ha... yeah, death generally is somewhat debilitating, at least as far as your worldly projects are concerned.

I think my stamp collection may suffer somewhat when I pass.
1080  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Any Modern Deists Here? on: April 24, 2011, 06:48:38
I can vouch for the necessity of PR's disclaimor, since I have seen a handful of arguments precipitate from people taking his shock-jokes literally, and then mounting a forum campaign against them.  wink
1081  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Any Modern Deists Here? on: April 24, 2011, 02:32:32

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That was the best argument I ever heard for atheism, good show.


You need to be slightly careful here, since there are things to be confused with by the sort of argument I presented. David Hume was an atheist, but he is not here arguing for atheism per se, but rather against those who recognize there to be a force more powerful than man at work in the universe, and then immediately postulate a perfect God with every excellence by default, rather than a much more probable less perfect, but still powerful being, or metaphysical substrate.

I would not at all call myself an atheist with respect to a Deity, since an atheist affirms their belief in the nonexistance of a deity. Since I have and could have no ground for disbelieving in the possibility of a Deity (since literally anything is possible), I find it much more proper to say I am agnostic with referenc to a Deity, since I have insufficient information provided to me to make a conclusion on that matter (it is important to note that I would be an agnostic even with significantly more information provided to me, since I could never exclude the possibility of being deceived by myself or other powerful beings who want to employ my belief for their own purposes).

But that is only with respect to a Deity. I feel I have been given significantly more information about metaphysiscal realities in the general sense, and take their existence in some form to be near-certain, be it in the form of alternate planes of existence, additional properties possessed by physical matter which is not yet understood, or in thought itself as primal universal force or substance. But that is a matter which deserves more than a cursory summary, if it were to be explored.

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Couple other thoughts to lay on you, don't forget when we take the material world and look at the smallest thing we can see, ya know quantum physics, it all just appears to be energy. So is the material really material or simply another state of wave energy with different "dimensional" characteristics.


It may well be that the energy that constitutes the physical material world is contiguous with a metaphysical level, but you need to be a spot careful, as the fact that matter is composed of energy is not in itself a metaphysical argument, just an argument about the constitution of matter.
1082  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Any Modern Deists Here? on: April 22, 2011, 09:19:47

I could say my belief about the concept of God or divinity is close to deism, insofar as I reject scripture as a basis of proof, and believe that proof or metaphysical claims must be either empirical or rationalist; I also respect the contribution deism has made in or culture, in helping to divorce a large part of the population from compulsory organized religion in the 18th and 19th centuries.

That said, I think people often jump to metaphysical conclusions prematurely- I have seen pretty much any strong arugment about the weakness of philosophical materialism in explaining our world taken to immediately mean there must be a God, and this God must have a certain set of properties. For instance, notice that when many people argue something along the lines of, "The physical universe contains an unlikely amount of order, or some forms or properties which materialism alone has not been able to account for", they immediately go on to conclude, "therefore, there must be a God". This is an invalid form of reasoning, since you cannot go from an inability of one theory to explain a circumstance, and then immediately go on to conclude that whatever you want must therefore be the cause (since that is what God is to many people, whatever they want it to be).

I myself do identify with those that, as stated, reject the full explanation of the world we live in by material means, on the basis of certain rational properties of conscsiousness, and on some anecdotal information related to OBE-type phenomena, and this for me implies that a more proper theory of existence must include some property, philosophical substance, or metaphysical construct that has not been brought into science as yet. But notice that even though I feel "there is more to the world than immediately at hand", this does not threfore imply a certain metaphysical reality per se, except one that is necessitated by the observed conditions.

 David Hume ( a famous 18th centurey atheist, whom I cannot fully agree with by virtue of his atheism, lol, but a very astute philosopher)  gave a classical argument to a similar effect:

The argument can be summed up to the effect that: If you take it from a cosmological perspective that the world needs a creator, at the very best, you can postulate a very imperfect and flawed creator. The reason is that the creator must only be as skilled and perfect as the craft he is capable of making. Since our world appears to be quite flawed and imperfect, it would not at all require the perfect creator with every excellence many suggest, but rather one merely possessing the minimum power to create something of the fineness of our physical world. Even though this being or force would be much beyond our understanding, it would still be far from necessarily being perfect, just rather powerful compared to us.

(I can get you a reference to the full argument in text if you wish later, but I cannot access it now without waking people up, haha)

And I argue along similar lines to Hume's argument which I paraphrased:from my philosophical perspective, the current scientific paradigm seems like an inadequate explanation of the fullness of our observed existence, for reasons which I hinted at before (but can go into greater depth on), and therefore I postulate a metaphysical substrate to the universe, or metaphysical properties to the physical universe, which fulfill the differences between the material paradigm and observations. I cannot call this metaphysical God per se, since I cannot postulate some particular being or other, and in this I must break from deists, even though I agree with their rejection of organized religion and their promotion of reason in metaphysics.



1083  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Links between F4 of Conciousness and Taoism on: April 22, 2011, 03:31:36
Yeah, Laozi (Lao tze to some) was pretty sharp. The other thing about the Dao de Jing (again, spellings vary based on system) is that it has been translated so many times, and that the original text was fragmented and had to be reassembled into scholars' best possible guess as to its real orignal order, that it just adds chaos to craziness, lol. You see, the orignals were all written on these bamboo shards which were tied together with grass. The bamboo survived ages, and the grass lasted decades, lol, so you are left with a handful of jumbled pieces when you finally handle the scroll again. So people had to figure out what this crazy guy might have meant, on top of putting his rantings in random order, lol. To make things even crazier, some people think pieces of other scrolls might have ended up mixed in with the Dao De Jing. It is like taking an already difficult movie to follow, like 2001: A space Oddessy, or one of Steven Lynch's films, changing the order of all the scenes, and adding in snippets of Willie Wonka and the Chocolate factory and Animal House in there randomly. It is going to be insane any way you look at it, even if some people claim to know what it is saying, lol.

That said, I love the Dao de Jing. It is so reverent and otherworldly, and says nothing directly; it is like written music, in a way.

You should also read the Zhuangzi. It is my all time favorite piece of Chinese literature, and was written by the other major founder of Daoism. It is just as otherworldly and playful, but we have it on pretty good athority that we have a better preserved translation of it than the Dae De Jing, so you don't have to sort out his intentions from possible artifacts of the order being changed, just the nuances of translating form ancient Chinese (which are themselves profound enough on their own). 

You can find good copies of both the Dao De Jing and the Zhuangzi online.
1084  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Nibiru proof on: April 21, 2011, 02:00:12
Explain it to me. I promise if it is reasonable, I will entertain it. I am open to alot of things, but I also don't believe in faith... at all; don't you have to agree though? it is risky and dangerous to really believe anything that cannot be either experienced yourself or at least supported by strong evidence. If you guys believe this yourself, clearly you must have reasons you can share, no?
1085  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: UFO coverage on: April 17, 2011, 04:01:28
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anyone have any ideas as to who or what these UFOs actually are and why they even appear to us in the first place?

Oh, lots of people will offer various accounts of who might be visiting us, and I have heard dozens of explanations- but very few of them have legitimate evidence to back them up. It is good to read them, to have an idea of the possbilities, but you need to be quite discerning and skeptical as well, I am afraid. Most people who offer accounts generally link them to their pet metaphysical paradigms, and relate them to other beliefs they might have, so this complicates sorting out the facts even further.
1086  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Flaw in the typical spiritual (buddhist-type) thinking on: April 16, 2011, 16:16:20
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God has given you one face, and you make yourself

Hamlet?
1087  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Nibiru proof on: April 16, 2011, 02:49:53
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hahaha only time will tell.

Or reason.

If he wants to make such a bold claim, he needs to back it up.

Tell us why you think this is going to happen. Don't refer us to a book or a website; if you are certain it will happen yourself, you should be able to tell us in your own words.
1088  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Planet X on: April 15, 2011, 17:54:56
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Chosen by who for what?


1089  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: FBI Confirms Astral Planes Exist on: April 14, 2011, 15:23:46
Yes it did. I was also thinking that it would be nice to have more context on who the speak was, and where the information was coming from.

There you go, pauli.
1090  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: FBI Confirms Astral Planes Exist on: April 14, 2011, 06:02:24
Yeah, I really don't understand it either. If these were new releases, why did they not gather any attention? It seems like these documents blatantly tell of the recovery of extraterrestrial objects and bodies in no uncertain terms. This so sharply clashes with the public story that no such thing ever occurred or was observerd, that if these pages were new, I doubt there wouldn't be news coverage. But yes, even if they are decades old, I wonder if their identity has been verified, and if the FBI has made official statements. I doubt the FBI is acknowledging these since they defintely don't jive well with their offical position, and if that is so, it is hard to know if they are real or fake.
1091  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: President of Czech Republic steals pen! on: April 14, 2011, 05:43:45
Lol.

Just lol.

I think this youtube video is the most honest portrayal of the incident. He was clearly training for this moment for years, and finally steped forth to fulfill his rightful destiny, and restore honor to his family, his country, his dead master, and his long forgotten Czech tribe of stealth-assassins, while the eyes of his filthy, merciless enemies were all around him. He Has dealt the death blow for the resistance, and his unyielding selfless heroism will be put to song for eons, and his story will be told to children at bedtime as a parable.

In other words, I really don't know why this was in the news either, lol.

The real lesson is that you can do something perfectly honest, like this guy here, but if you look guilty while you do it, you will attract everyone's attention all the same. Much more powerful and troubling though, is that the converse is also true. You can do something totally reprehensible, but if you keep face, and pretend there is nothing at all wrong in what you are doing, but rather downplay it in a casual fashion, you can fool alot of people a good part of the time. You can non-chalantly wander places you don't belong if you give the air of being at ease; you can stand on a podium and tell the public bold-faced lies and contradictions, and completely dismiss the people who call you out, and even make them out to be the villains in many people's eyes. It is funny and sad how merely condemning others will grant you yourself the moral card with some naive onlookers.
1092  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Flaw in the typical spiritual (buddhist-type) thinking on: April 12, 2011, 04:21:39
True story.

Hold the string too tight, and it snaps. Too loose, and you don't get any music, Daniel-san.
1093  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Can You Sense the Changes? on: April 11, 2011, 01:51:40
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I don't exactly know- I think you know I don't like to give conspiracy theories power, but the way the markets have been manipulated to bottom out seem deliberate to me, and the way we see many different things happening at the same time seem manipulated to me.  And if you look at the mechanism behind the stuff that is happening- the mechanism itself seems driven by people of a certain economic 'belief' system- the same people that have made these things happen are the people that are seeding discontent amongst the general populace.
So you take a manipulation of the economy- make as many poor people as possible, take away funding for education- the first thing that goes away, and then foster discontent, not agains the ones that are making this happen but against the people that are trying to stop it- and you got yourself a great climate for sudden revolt- which will be swiftly put down, and whatever liberties people may have had, will go away all at once.
Who benefits?  Not 'the people'.  Who's behind it?  Not sure, but there seems to be a group behind other groups making this happen.
Neo-Machiavellianism.  (A term I just coined, as I haven't seen it anywhere else.)

A lot of vagueness there, lol, but yeah... it really does make you wonder sometimes how far Mr. Big pulling the strings is able to extend corporate influence, and exactly how far and to what scope his plans extend. I mean does he want to drive out competition in his sector of the banking market, or does he want to change the socio-economic structure of the country? Maybe he even has an ideological agenda complete with beliefs about what sort of society he wants to create, and what sort of people he wants to populate it.

But are you saying that the massive unemployment, even following economic upturns, was the intended result? It makes total sense to me that a shadow nobility might want to redistribute wealth in some way, but when a large number of people aren't working at all, it reduces the eficiency of the entire system, and generates less wealth for everyone, top included- it does not seem like that would be an industrialist's intention.

I am not sure about revolt though... in the U.S. at least, things would need to get downright abysmal for people to take arms; a number of factors are working against a revolt, such a general social apathy, collective fear of the might of the U.S. military complex, and a diffusion of responsibility ( you can't really point to one particular person or group and say they are the culprits anymore- can't say the president did it alone, or the wealthy business owners, or the Green party, or Walmart- it is a group effort, but it is hard to blame anyone in particular). The terrible and bloody effort that it would take, and the real uncertainty about what would come after are major impediments to anything like a revolt even being considered.


But what are you saying you see in all this? Are you suggesting that someone is engineering a 1984-style fascist transition? And what do you mean when you say there is a group behind the other groups? What clues did you connect that leads you to think this? I am definitely not saying I dis-believe it, but rather that I want to pin down where you are coming from with this, and why you think it.
1094  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Can You Sense the Changes? on: April 10, 2011, 19:00:18
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Well, if you ask me, I'd say that the economic/social things that are happening are manufactured, that is, made to happen on purpose by people who think that it's in their best interests to make it happen.

Hmm. What do you have in mind when you say that? People like George Soros, who vow to shape world-economies through speculation/artificial surplus and scarcity, etc, or people like Goldman Sachs executives manipulating the credit and banking markets, or the people in charge of controlling interest rates at The Fed, maybe?
1095  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Re: where was jesus? on: April 08, 2011, 13:41:25
Continuing that theme, alot of what became Chistianity in retrospect was derived from some Egyptian salvation cults (Isis, Ra, etc), with the emphasis on astrology and sun worship, and the promise of eternal life (which to many ancient peoples was  pretty new concept). Isis had been offering her covenant with mankind for hundreds of years, and the groups had jsut made their way to Rome at the time.

Later, about 400 years later actually, Christianity absorbed a lot of Greek Platonism in the trinity and other concepts, which are reflected in the Nicean Creed, as the Romans had by this time adopted to the Greek mindset, and that lens further shaped the development of Christianity. It is also important to note though, that pretty much all of the New Testament was written decades after the supposed events, and so must be seen in yet another context of removal. It is really difficult to understand Christian doctrine fully without understanding that it was the cultural product of more than six different cultures, which applied their own views and ideologies over the course of five centuries in the formative period.

To respond to your original question, I will also point out that there are no less than 20 men and women living on earth today, who profess the most astounding miracles imaginable, and claim an equivalent of pretty much every miracle Christ performed between them, and many more. Are these people in the public and scientific spotlight (today's equivalent of popular Greek philosophy)? Most supposedly saintly people become much more famous in death, and why not? A saint is a much more powerful idea when you can't meet them, and they can become for you whatever wonderous thing you can conceive.
1096  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What are your thoughts about..... on: April 07, 2011, 20:16:15
* Diet for projection
-Be healthy and feel good about yourself. Projection wise, don't eat huge meals before attempts, it puts your stomach into overdrive, which is disruptive. Alcohol is ok in moderation, but don't use before an attempt, it has the opposite effect you want to achieve, since you are trying to stay aware, and alcohol is a depressant.

* Protecting yourself
-Never had the need yet. Not saying I never will, or that no one else has a need, since a lot can happen, and I know about 1% of the projection environment at the very best. Will investigate it when it becomes a need.

* Pre-planning your journey
-Having an idea of things you will try given the chance is good, and keeps you focused, which is what you need to be in projection, or you will wander off mentally into some other experience, or wake up.

* Smoking cigerettes
-Smoking marijuana is ok if you only do it occasionally and don't make it a habit; has some therapuic value, but don't overdo it; also don't smoke pre-projection for same reason as alcohol. Don't touch ciggarettes, and stop now if you do.
1097  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Crystal found in backyard on: April 07, 2011, 18:00:25
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Kids seem to be attracted to it and get in my garden and pick it up. I don't say anything, but I'm always thinking "DON'T YOU DARE LOSE THAT!!!".

That is a funny mental image where a slightly unordinary rock is concerned  cheesy

You should name her!
1098  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Strange man at the door on: April 07, 2011, 13:31:05
The red pill or the blue pill.

Clearly you needed to eat the cookie to go farther down the rabbit hole.
1099  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Crystal found in backyard on: April 06, 2011, 17:01:29
Maybe its a record keeper!

Or a trapper keeper...

Or maybe it'sa... dungeon master?

Maybe it heals dogs on Sunday if you put it in the light! Or turns wine into vinegar over a couple months time?

I don't know evil

Ask the crystal people!
1100  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: How to resinate a crystal? on: April 06, 2011, 04:11:58
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I get what you're saying, but the holographic guys don't really believe reality is analog

Yeah, I was sure you would- you seem to have an engineer's perspective generally; I was just trying to make where I was reasoning from clear to everyone, since I seem to come out no-place to some people at times, lol. And I follow you on the holographic physics bit too- I tried to show that I was allowing for reality to be either analogue or digital, and that an analogue world had special challenges to recording reality.

I have read some of the information on the idea of the holographic universe before, and I think it is a strong theory on how things may be at their core. An idea I would connect digital physics to is another idea that is somewhat Pythagorean / Neo-Platonic; the idea relates to the concept that there needs to be a reason for the universe to exist, or else it very well should not have existed at all.  Now consider the idea of truths or laws: say that I propose the universal truth that, "All astronauts in the universe will always be female." Now we know that truth to be false, since there have been some astronauts who were not female. But what if I proposed the same thing, but in a world where there never were astronauts, and never would or could be? Would it be a true statement, or a false one? Many philosophers of logic would say that it could only be false if there was a counterexample, and it could only be true if there were a set it described. Since neither is there, those philosophers would say that it was neither true nor false, but undefined.

Now consider something else. There are many truths, principally the truths of mathematics, that must be true in any possible world- they are "necessary" truths. These are truths like the law of non-contradiction (same thing cannot be true and false, or exist and not exist at the same time), and laws like 3+2 must = 5 in base ten. But if there is no universe, these necessary truths must remain undefined, since there is no set that they describe. But perhaps that is what the universe is- maybe these universal truths have such force that they take on creative power all on their own, and have generated a necessary mathematical universe which is the example of all possible truths. So in this view, the universe exists because it MUST, and it is necessarily compelled to.

This idea seemed very much like what digital physics is getting at to me- that the universe appears very much like a mathematical simulation, that ultimately IS mathematics at its core.
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