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1076  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: FBI Confirms Astral Planes Exist on: April 14, 2011, 06:02:24
Yeah, I really don't understand it either. If these were new releases, why did they not gather any attention? It seems like these documents blatantly tell of the recovery of extraterrestrial objects and bodies in no uncertain terms. This so sharply clashes with the public story that no such thing ever occurred or was observerd, that if these pages were new, I doubt there wouldn't be news coverage. But yes, even if they are decades old, I wonder if their identity has been verified, and if the FBI has made official statements. I doubt the FBI is acknowledging these since they defintely don't jive well with their offical position, and if that is so, it is hard to know if they are real or fake.
1077  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: President of Czech Republic steals pen! on: April 14, 2011, 05:43:45

Just lol.

I think this youtube video is the most honest portrayal of the incident. He was clearly training for this moment for years, and finally steped forth to fulfill his rightful destiny, and restore honor to his family, his country, his dead master, and his long forgotten Czech tribe of stealth-assassins, while the eyes of his filthy, merciless enemies were all around him. He Has dealt the death blow for the resistance, and his unyielding selfless heroism will be put to song for eons, and his story will be told to children at bedtime as a parable.

In other words, I really don't know why this was in the news either, lol.

The real lesson is that you can do something perfectly honest, like this guy here, but if you look guilty while you do it, you will attract everyone's attention all the same. Much more powerful and troubling though, is that the converse is also true. You can do something totally reprehensible, but if you keep face, and pretend there is nothing at all wrong in what you are doing, but rather downplay it in a casual fashion, you can fool alot of people a good part of the time. You can non-chalantly wander places you don't belong if you give the air of being at ease; you can stand on a podium and tell the public bold-faced lies and contradictions, and completely dismiss the people who call you out, and even make them out to be the villains in many people's eyes. It is funny and sad how merely condemning others will grant you yourself the moral card with some naive onlookers.
1078  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Flaw in the typical spiritual (buddhist-type) thinking on: April 12, 2011, 04:21:39
True story.

Hold the string too tight, and it snaps. Too loose, and you don't get any music, Daniel-san.
1079  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Can You Sense the Changes? on: April 11, 2011, 01:51:40
I don't exactly know- I think you know I don't like to give conspiracy theories power, but the way the markets have been manipulated to bottom out seem deliberate to me, and the way we see many different things happening at the same time seem manipulated to me.  And if you look at the mechanism behind the stuff that is happening- the mechanism itself seems driven by people of a certain economic 'belief' system- the same people that have made these things happen are the people that are seeding discontent amongst the general populace.
So you take a manipulation of the economy- make as many poor people as possible, take away funding for education- the first thing that goes away, and then foster discontent, not agains the ones that are making this happen but against the people that are trying to stop it- and you got yourself a great climate for sudden revolt- which will be swiftly put down, and whatever liberties people may have had, will go away all at once.
Who benefits?  Not 'the people'.  Who's behind it?  Not sure, but there seems to be a group behind other groups making this happen.
Neo-Machiavellianism.  (A term I just coined, as I haven't seen it anywhere else.)

A lot of vagueness there, lol, but yeah... it really does make you wonder sometimes how far Mr. Big pulling the strings is able to extend corporate influence, and exactly how far and to what scope his plans extend. I mean does he want to drive out competition in his sector of the banking market, or does he want to change the socio-economic structure of the country? Maybe he even has an ideological agenda complete with beliefs about what sort of society he wants to create, and what sort of people he wants to populate it.

But are you saying that the massive unemployment, even following economic upturns, was the intended result? It makes total sense to me that a shadow nobility might want to redistribute wealth in some way, but when a large number of people aren't working at all, it reduces the eficiency of the entire system, and generates less wealth for everyone, top included- it does not seem like that would be an industrialist's intention.

I am not sure about revolt though... in the U.S. at least, things would need to get downright abysmal for people to take arms; a number of factors are working against a revolt, such a general social apathy, collective fear of the might of the U.S. military complex, and a diffusion of responsibility ( you can't really point to one particular person or group and say they are the culprits anymore- can't say the president did it alone, or the wealthy business owners, or the Green party, or Walmart- it is a group effort, but it is hard to blame anyone in particular). The terrible and bloody effort that it would take, and the real uncertainty about what would come after are major impediments to anything like a revolt even being considered.

But what are you saying you see in all this? Are you suggesting that someone is engineering a 1984-style fascist transition? And what do you mean when you say there is a group behind the other groups? What clues did you connect that leads you to think this? I am definitely not saying I dis-believe it, but rather that I want to pin down where you are coming from with this, and why you think it.
1080  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Can You Sense the Changes? on: April 10, 2011, 19:00:18
Well, if you ask me, I'd say that the economic/social things that are happening are manufactured, that is, made to happen on purpose by people who think that it's in their best interests to make it happen.

Hmm. What do you have in mind when you say that? People like George Soros, who vow to shape world-economies through speculation/artificial surplus and scarcity, etc, or people like Goldman Sachs executives manipulating the credit and banking markets, or the people in charge of controlling interest rates at The Fed, maybe?
1081  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Re: where was jesus? on: April 08, 2011, 13:41:25
Continuing that theme, alot of what became Chistianity in retrospect was derived from some Egyptian salvation cults (Isis, Ra, etc), with the emphasis on astrology and sun worship, and the promise of eternal life (which to many ancient peoples was  pretty new concept). Isis had been offering her covenant with mankind for hundreds of years, and the groups had jsut made their way to Rome at the time.

Later, about 400 years later actually, Christianity absorbed a lot of Greek Platonism in the trinity and other concepts, which are reflected in the Nicean Creed, as the Romans had by this time adopted to the Greek mindset, and that lens further shaped the development of Christianity. It is also important to note though, that pretty much all of the New Testament was written decades after the supposed events, and so must be seen in yet another context of removal. It is really difficult to understand Christian doctrine fully without understanding that it was the cultural product of more than six different cultures, which applied their own views and ideologies over the course of five centuries in the formative period.

To respond to your original question, I will also point out that there are no less than 20 men and women living on earth today, who profess the most astounding miracles imaginable, and claim an equivalent of pretty much every miracle Christ performed between them, and many more. Are these people in the public and scientific spotlight (today's equivalent of popular Greek philosophy)? Most supposedly saintly people become much more famous in death, and why not? A saint is a much more powerful idea when you can't meet them, and they can become for you whatever wonderous thing you can conceive.
1082  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What are your thoughts about..... on: April 07, 2011, 20:16:15
* Diet for projection
-Be healthy and feel good about yourself. Projection wise, don't eat huge meals before attempts, it puts your stomach into overdrive, which is disruptive. Alcohol is ok in moderation, but don't use before an attempt, it has the opposite effect you want to achieve, since you are trying to stay aware, and alcohol is a depressant.

* Protecting yourself
-Never had the need yet. Not saying I never will, or that no one else has a need, since a lot can happen, and I know about 1% of the projection environment at the very best. Will investigate it when it becomes a need.

* Pre-planning your journey
-Having an idea of things you will try given the chance is good, and keeps you focused, which is what you need to be in projection, or you will wander off mentally into some other experience, or wake up.

* Smoking cigerettes
-Smoking marijuana is ok if you only do it occasionally and don't make it a habit; has some therapuic value, but don't overdo it; also don't smoke pre-projection for same reason as alcohol. Don't touch ciggarettes, and stop now if you do.
1083  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Crystal found in backyard on: April 07, 2011, 18:00:25
Kids seem to be attracted to it and get in my garden and pick it up. I don't say anything, but I'm always thinking "DON'T YOU DARE LOSE THAT!!!".

That is a funny mental image where a slightly unordinary rock is concerned  cheesy

You should name her!
1084  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Strange man at the door on: April 07, 2011, 13:31:05
The red pill or the blue pill.

Clearly you needed to eat the cookie to go farther down the rabbit hole.
1085  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Crystal found in backyard on: April 06, 2011, 17:01:29
Maybe its a record keeper!

Or a trapper keeper...

Or maybe it'sa... dungeon master?

Maybe it heals dogs on Sunday if you put it in the light! Or turns wine into vinegar over a couple months time?

I don't know evil

Ask the crystal people!
1086  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: How to resinate a crystal? on: April 06, 2011, 04:11:58
I get what you're saying, but the holographic guys don't really believe reality is analog

Yeah, I was sure you would- you seem to have an engineer's perspective generally; I was just trying to make where I was reasoning from clear to everyone, since I seem to come out no-place to some people at times, lol. And I follow you on the holographic physics bit too- I tried to show that I was allowing for reality to be either analogue or digital, and that an analogue world had special challenges to recording reality.

I have read some of the information on the idea of the holographic universe before, and I think it is a strong theory on how things may be at their core. An idea I would connect digital physics to is another idea that is somewhat Pythagorean / Neo-Platonic; the idea relates to the concept that there needs to be a reason for the universe to exist, or else it very well should not have existed at all.  Now consider the idea of truths or laws: say that I propose the universal truth that, "All astronauts in the universe will always be female." Now we know that truth to be false, since there have been some astronauts who were not female. But what if I proposed the same thing, but in a world where there never were astronauts, and never would or could be? Would it be a true statement, or a false one? Many philosophers of logic would say that it could only be false if there was a counterexample, and it could only be true if there were a set it described. Since neither is there, those philosophers would say that it was neither true nor false, but undefined.

Now consider something else. There are many truths, principally the truths of mathematics, that must be true in any possible world- they are "necessary" truths. These are truths like the law of non-contradiction (same thing cannot be true and false, or exist and not exist at the same time), and laws like 3+2 must = 5 in base ten. But if there is no universe, these necessary truths must remain undefined, since there is no set that they describe. But perhaps that is what the universe is- maybe these universal truths have such force that they take on creative power all on their own, and have generated a necessary mathematical universe which is the example of all possible truths. So in this view, the universe exists because it MUST, and it is necessarily compelled to.

This idea seemed very much like what digital physics is getting at to me- that the universe appears very much like a mathematical simulation, that ultimately IS mathematics at its core.
1087  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: How to resinate a crystal? on: April 06, 2011, 01:28:43
We already do this in holography, don't we?  And tv.  Roughly, anyway.

But in this case, we are converting an analogue experience (the reality filmed) into a digital medium. It is true that the latter is a representation of the former, and an approximation, but there is also information lost in going from the original analogue reality and approximating it into discrete digital data.

I guess to make that concept clearer, lets say that all measurements of things in the real world are either irrationals, or rational numbers with 40,000 decimal places. If the tv camera is recording digitally (not talking about cameras which take actual film frames, but either digital filming, or the process of converting these analogue stills into data that can be represented on television), then it is approximating these long decimals at some at some arbitrary stoping point of precision, say 8 decimal degits. Now to a person watching the film on television, this is indeed a representation of the reality filmed, but it has lost tremendous amounts of information. You can zoom in to reality and get more detail for every level you focus, but if you zoom in on the picture on tv, it just gets blurrier for every level of focus, since it only approximated data on the smaller scale.

Now take this concept and look at the idea of metaphysical data. If reality is digital, then this preceding issue should not arise, since eventually it would be possible for some intelligence to develop measuring and storage media that encode data to the very level of precision that reality's discrete units occur on. If reality is analogue to its very core essense, then this is a profound problem, since no matter how precise your measurement and recording, you are losing some data at a finer level then you are working at. It is acceptable to lose some information when you are just giving a television show which is a representation, but when it comes to encoding reality itself, any miss at all may very well be a miss by miles.
1088  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: How to resinate a crystal? on: April 06, 2011, 00:18:59
I also think it is in theory possible to encode "metaphysical" information in data.

In order for data to make coherent sense, you need both a way of reading it, and translation into an output. The data in your hard-drive, which in one case my code for an image, does not do so intrinsicly. Nothing about the data says, "image data", rather than "calender" or "irrational number record". It is your system of understanding how to read it, and your monitor which receives the data and outputs is as pixel that give it temporary meaning as image data.

The same with theoretical metaphysical data. Most of the greater universe probably translates directly into consciousness. The output of consciousness is states of experience and awareness. In order to create metaphysical data, then, you would first have to identify all the qualities and quantifiable dimensions that consciousness can take. You would then assign data values to specific points along these continui of feeling and experience. Then you would need a medium- that is the easy part; any way of encoding data would do, actually, but I would imagine there would be significantly more data involved in graphing consciousness than in computer operations. Finally, to make all of this meaningful, you would need conscious systems to read the data and directly experience it, and you would need a method for synchronizing their personal experiences to match the data.

If all of the preceding paragraph is true, then metaphysical data should in theory be possible. The two major hurdles I see is whether or not it is indeed possible to graph our seemingly analogue experiences in a digital manner like this, and capture every dimension they possess, and if there exists a method for directly inducing expereinces in a given consciousness. If those two are solvable, then metaphysical data is likely a reality.
1089  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OBE to outer space? Other planets and galaxys. on: April 05, 2011, 23:55:23
I'm in the same situation.  I don't actively practice projection anymore either, but I still study it.  More accurately (and i'm sure this is the same for Kurt) I research consciousness and ap seems to be a good way to study consciousness by having a different state to compare to normal waking reality.

I have always enjoyed studying consciousness on a philosophical level, with people like Denette and Searle vs Chalmers and Tart, who like to take things from the persepective of data and subjective thought exeriments, and reason through these to what fundamental characteristics consciousness must posess, and their subsequent metaphysical models.

What does study of consciousness mean in your context, with reference to projection states you mention?
1090  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Can You Sense the Changes? on: April 05, 2011, 23:48:08
I thought this was quite funny.

Clever. I read it in order, so I was like, " Why are they making me read this upside down! cheesy
1091  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Is this a good method to use? on: April 05, 2011, 13:35:39
I also have a question, if I ever get to the astral plane how do I go back to my body when I'm tired?

This is just about the last thing you need to worry about!  wink

trust me, NOT doing this is far more difficult. If you even think about your body, there is a good chance you will end up back there, and you will find yourself rocketed back there for all manner of random reasons; you might feel sensations of a full bladder; you might hear a noise; you might be shocked by something in the projection environment and rush back to body; you might get a sudden thought about being a dis-embodied point, and indirectly mentally reference that to having a body, and snap back there; you might drift off in a sleepy fashion, and awake in body.

Some people seem to have a moment where they want to return, or are frightened or anxious, and have a shade of difficulty, but normally just planting the mild thought of being back in the body is enough to actualize that intent.

Also how do these vibrations feel, may someone describe them

Dramatic. You might be unsure if you have experienced them or not, since you might be confusing them with nerve-tingling numbness sensations, but in occurrence, they are bold; they cycle at about 4-repititions a second, and pulse your entire body to near-earthquake amplitude. You might think they were mildly painful I guess, but I would say they are more suprising than anything. Some people never experience them, and go on anyhow, and most people experience them early, and they subside over the weeks and years.
1092  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OBE to outer space? Other planets and galaxys. on: April 04, 2011, 08:34:55
Robert Bruce claimed to have some experiences visiting places in the solar system.

I guess the thing I would think though, is that there is absolutely no way to know that you are experiencing replicas of the physical celestial bodies themselves. They are so far away, and there is very little way to verify what you experienced. You could see pretty much anything out there, and I would imagine most of it would be guided by what you expected to see, really.

The other thing I read Bruce and Monroe write is that the celestial bodies are really rather boring by comparison with other things going on in a projection environment, just being giant dead spaces. They might be interesting to visit once, or perhaps you would see something special or personal there if you were to visit, who knows.

Worth a shot!
1093  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Thomas Campbell's work on: April 04, 2011, 02:00:54
He is one of the sharper tacks in the field; he was on of the people working at the Monroe institute when they developed their binaural beats sytem.

He has his own minor limitations, such as being stuck on the idea that nothng anyone experiences out of body is a direct literal truth, but rather a metaphor for a possible truth (which may or my not be true), but getting past these tiny hiccups, he has a pretty disciplined approach to the OBE matter, and tries his hand at reasonigh through the data he gathers to a possible metaphsical model of existence.

The thing I think most could appreciate about his work is that it is for the most part very rigorous, with only a few assumptions which I disagree with. He does not take belief or cultural explanations into his work, but he does make the occasional small ungrounded step, so as long as you can recgnize these, there is alot he can share.
1094  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Who actually has brought objects back? on: April 03, 2011, 10:54:48
Well, NickisDank... That's because this topic of "astral projection" is not taught in school's, so it's up to us to find out how it works on are own. I've had my fair share of personal experiences but I could care less about them because I just want to know the physics behind AP. I'm done playing with guides and feeling energy sensations, I want to know the facts about this stuff.

Does anyone really know? It is all theory and conjecture... some like Muldoon, Charles Tart, Robert Monroe and Thomas Campbell carried out research in a scientific fashion, but legitimate research is so thinly spread, and pseudo-religious rambling is so thick, it is pretty damn hard to sort things out for yourself. Compound this with the fact you can't take anything that happens in a projection at face value unless you are able to verify it with some physical situation, and you have a pretty profound data-logging issue.

The issue is not hopeless, but until the pracititioners of mainstream science stop playing follow the leader in the materialist scientism parade, this will forever be a fringe subject of research, and therefore unfunded. I guess that partially makes it exciting as well; there is great undiscovered country, and we are doing things very few would even recognize as possible.

thats what i was thinking, but really how the bonk did he do it  . is this something ill have to wonder for the rest of my life? lol

Well... considering the guys who said they saw him do it all said different things about it, and only wrote down their versions of it decades after they said it happened... and were some random dudes in a desert 2000 years back, lol... how can you be sure he really did at all? cheesy The standard of proof in the New Testament is so lax really anything could have happned, lol.

I am not by any means saying the Bible is fake, but suppose I told you the following story:

"Okay, so we were all in the van that night out 40 miles north of Phoenix, Davy and I were in the front seat, and Ray was in the back. Ray says he saw something different than the other two of us, but then he had taken some peyote a day back, so we weren't sure what was up with him anyhow. First thing was, I was rubbing the sweat out of my eyes, and heard the rustling as Davy was gunning the engine; I looked out and saw some plastic caught on the van's side mirror, and then I saw him out about 300 yards out west, running before the setting sun. Was a pale white horse, and when he turned this one way, that is when I saw the horn. Didn't catch it at first, but he had to be a unicorn. Davy even saw him too, after I pointed it out, didn't know what to make of it, but he had to keep his eyes on the rode. Ray saw it too, and told us he was the advance scout of the Pleidiean guard. Ray was definitely burned out bad, but I know what I saw, and Davy saw it a split second too."

Now nothing about that story sounds at all credible. There are so many details that cast doubt, and we don't sound like very good witnesses to boot; the same also goes for the gospel writers- they were a motley crew at best, and when you look at some of hte details, and the context of the writings themselves, and the lack of correlation between the various accounts, I think you can agree that while the Bible may be rich in philosophical wisdom, it is dangerous to take any account presented in it at literal value.
1095  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Planet X on: April 02, 2011, 00:24:55
I was answering the questions asked by a previous poster individually, hence the numbering.
1096  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Planet X on: April 01, 2011, 11:37:21
Where do you come up with this stuff? Let me see if I can translate.

(1) Nature = planet?

(2) People < Nature

(3) People live on planets

I guess this all still doesn't have much to do with planet X but oh well! 


1) Only in the narrowest reading. Nature is properly all of existence, in every way and means it is possible to exist. To say "=" would be to say the terms are always identical, which is not true.

2) Yes, by necessity. A whole is greater than a set of its incomplete parts. The original statement 2 was more about the certainty that one would outlast the other though, rather than the comparative value of each.

3) While this is true, the original statement 3 was more about order of appearance, rather than what lives where.

This stuff is getting pedantic, lol.  cheesy

1097  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Planet X on: April 01, 2011, 02:01:59
Yeah, no problem- just clearing up what I meant. Was half joking with the original post lol, but the statements do have literal meaning too  wink
1098  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Planet X on: April 01, 2011, 00:15:23
[1]I wonder though, how did Nature "get" here or anywhere, and [2] what does it win "against"? [3] If it got here "first", what came afterwards?

(1) Nature is all existent forms and systems, in every mode of existence. In the narrower sense, nature is today most often used to refer to the totality of the the physical earth system, and the balance it is held in; so it was here first because in the broader sense, existence was the very first thing, and in the narrower sense, because the earth system preceded human habitation within it.

(2) Nature prevails against tampering by outlasting the tamperers. Existence will continue despite anyone's efforts, and some form of earth system will continue to persist regardless of what humanity does to itself or the earth.

(3) Humanity's habitation within the earth system came after the earth system's creation.
1099  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OBE video interviews, podcasts etc.. on: March 31, 2011, 17:23:22
Holy sunflower seed... that is indeed his 800-page book... in its entirety; guess he must have released the copyright, googlebooks is usually pretty responsible about that stuff.
1100  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OBE video interviews, podcasts etc.. on: March 31, 2011, 04:04:51
Haha... that is neat- never thought I would see those two converse. Watching now  wink
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