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1151  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Government preventing Astral Projection/Spiritual Awakening on: January 10, 2011, 15:25:48
Errors and vandalism rates on wikipedia have been greatly exaggerated; studies have been done and they found approximately the same rate of errors on Wikipedia as were on the Encyclopedia Brittanica, an international standard source.

Even if it is not always citation-worthy, wikipedia offers one of the best sources for introductory summaries on a vast number of topics, many of them subjects which would never get an article on any other encyclopedia, and the frequency of relavent updates to wikipedia articles ensures that they are always up to date.

The greatest rate of vandalism occurs on articles of political interest, but even here it rarely lasts more than an hour before it is discovered and etched out. If you take wikipedia for what it is, namely a source which anyone can edit, but has a self-correcting community of members keeping it in order, and use it accordingly, I think anyone would have to admit it is a profound resource.
1152  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Any Taoists here? on: January 09, 2011, 22:36:47
I love the Zhuangzi- I would say it is one of my top ten favortie books of all time- I can read it over and over. The Tao de Jing is good too, but it is so nebulous and inscrutible at times- even Zuangai scholars don't really agree with how it should be translated, or even if it has been passed to us unaltered or corrupted. The Zhuangzi on the other hand, manages to be both earthy and transcendent at the same time, and perfectly encapsultes what Daoism means to me.

And I definitely understand where you are coming from separating ritual from philosophy... ritual Daoism has absorbed parts of Neoconfucianism and Shang ancestor worship, and does not at all follow directly from earliest Dao teachings- it is essentially its own entity, and really only Daoism by association.
1153  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: Quantum Jumping?? on: January 08, 2011, 23:07:25

I don't think it really matters how he holds his thumbs..... and to say he's hitting keys without any harmonic structure..... is your hearing OK?   I play a bit, and I play other instruments, and I completely disagree that he's just hitting keys.

Well, You can just play a series of moderately spaced intervals, a bunch of fourths and sixths, etc, without any real structure, and it will come off as being a chromatic jazz piece. I mean, you can play intervals that would normally sound terrible, like minor seconds, and as long as they are played in different octaves as a ninth or something, they will still be aurally admissable. It is very easy to improvise in a completely random way if you have a kinesthetic feeling for the types of patterns chords or arpeggios normally take, without even knowing what they are. I think having an understanding of theory leads one to think that if something someone played sounds ok, they must also have competency in understanding proportional to what they played, and this is not always so.

Of course just because he can do these things doesn't mean he got them via this "astral jumping" but I don't think it's really very constructive to put down these skills, all of the skills he demonstrates are pretty darn impressive if he really did not take any time to learn them.

Well, the direction I am arguing from is that if he is claiming something absolutely astounding, such as making use of other realities to develop skills in his life, he would need to display equally astounding proof in order to claim that. Why can't he speak 11th century Chinese, or play chess like Bobby Fischer? The skills he has displayed are respectable, but clearly not things that are so difficult they could not have been developed in days a piece, if the right principles are understood.

Notice, I am not saying he is a fraud, and I definitely think that what he claims is in the realm of the possible, but I don't think that the skills he is displaying are of the magnificent caliber that they would qualify as proof for such a bizzare claim. For instance, if I claimed to have visited France, and I offered up as proof a small brass figure of the Eifel tower, you would say that I certainly might have been there, but that such a token clearly did not do much in the way of proving it.
1154  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Pulse Island! / Re: API Question list.. on: January 08, 2011, 09:03:56
Haha, so true, manwesulimo2004.
4.Space probably not limited
5.This depends on the nature of AP; not everyone would give you the same answer.
1155  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Thoughts on 2012 on: January 05, 2011, 22:16:36
this isn't necessarily related specifically to the Mayans, but I've been reading a lot about archaeology lately, particularly the evidence for ancient civilizations here on earth (which really ought to be recognized as fact.  the amount of evidence is astonishing.).  One of the things that become apparent is that something happened that severely altered the climate on earth and brought about the downfall of this ancient (probably global) civilization.  Some people believe that the great monuments around the world are in some sense a warning.

That is interesting PR- which particular monuments or artifacts are being cited as evidence for this claim? Elaborate a bit.

I do know that there are a few examples of things in far-strewn places that by all accounts of accepted history should not exist. For instance, this topic I made a time ago describes the site of Puma Punku, which is attributed to Neolithic-age people, yet contains diorite stones of such mass that the only way our civilization could move them today would be oceanic freighter, and cuts and holes of such precision they would demand diamond tools or industrial lasers to create.
1156  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Life after death on: January 02, 2011, 09:58:56
I have heard about a culture that celebrates when someone die and everyone is happy because they are moving onto the "next plane" or whatever they called it.

Well, I think a major part of it is also separation. The idea that heretofore, you could easily share space, presence and experiences with the person, and now, at there very least, if you believe they still exist, they are orders of magnitude more innaccessible. You can't really ask them how they are feeling, ask them about their life, or touch them. People are also attached to the physical form of their loved ones; people identify the existence and identity of the person with their body, and to think of that as lost and destroyed seems like a loss of identity on some level. I mean think of your mother, but lacking her face- it seems like an incomplete notion somehow.

After thousands of hours of research, my expert opinion is... I don't know what the hell happens when we die. Unfortunately, our species is quite primitive and perhaps if people would spend as much time studying science and engineering as they do praying to their gods, we might actually make some progress.

Maybe, but I am not sure empirical science is the only way to learn anything. We might end up learning just as much by "experiencing", or intuiting. It is very possible that future technology might interface with consciousness
1157  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Thoughts on 2012 on: January 02, 2011, 09:39:48
Well... I think people put a lot of words into the Mayans' mouths, haha. They never said the world would end in 2012. They never said anything about 2012 at all, since they did not use our calender system. If I recall, they were one of those groups that had a solar and a lunar calender, and a cycle relating they two. The Mayans understood a certain fact about astronomy, namely that the equinoxes occur on slightly different days over the years, in a cycle over thousands of years, despite the fact that they were only around for a few hundred years; they based one of their calender cycles around this "precession of the equinoxes", and marked the ends of each cycle as their "long count" system.

So that is what the Mayans said- that in their system of reckoning time, a major cycle will have been completed, based on the precession of the equinoxes, similarly to way in which a year, or a century is a sort of cycle that is meaningful to our system.  Now there is scholarly disagreement about the date in our calender that corresponds to the end of the current Mayan long count, so no one knows for sure what date it really represents; hence they Mayans made no comment about 2012. In reality, some people think the corresponding Gregorian date is over a hundred years away.

It is true that the Mayans did place significance on the beginings and ends of their calender cycles, but I don't think they predicted any "end of the world" scenarios. I think what is closer to the Mayan lore is that years within the same particular cycle had a sort of "thematic" relationship, and that when the cycles changed, there would be gradual change to the world as well, refelcting the change of the cycle.
1158  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Pulse Island! / Re: Beavis is back - In 2002 I helped create Astral Pulse Island on: January 02, 2011, 07:49:57
Haha, hi Beavis, I remember you from back in the day.

Several of the old major posters have returned, including Nay, Tayesin, who is off and on, Tvos, and others. Still missing Frank, Noleaf, and MajorTom.

I remember your videos about spinning tin foil wheels under glass  wink

Welcome back!
1159  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Alcohol on: December 29, 2010, 13:47:35
I think there is a bit of mysticism surrounding alcohol, stemming from the history of Upanishadic and Buddhist teachings about avoidance of mind-altering substances. Much of what became the the the modern cannon of teachings about meditation and other states of consciousness was taken from these traditions, for better or worse; you can see it in the adaptation of ideas like chakras and the need for personal gurus, etc.

I think the reality about alcohol and OBE is this: alcohol is a depressant, and tends to reduce your clarity and focus of mind, and when you try to project, you are maintaining your conscious awareness while your body otherwise prepares itself for a sleep cycle. In this way, it is a direct hindrance to a projection attempt. Alcohol also temporarily changes our metabolism and digestive actions, and an active stomach or other bodily sensations are also something that would hinder removing conscious focus from the body.

There are those, though, who believe the consumption of alcohol will stunt your chances for weeks; I think this idea is the not likely to prove true. The detrimental effects of alcohol on projection will likely last only as long as its effects on the body (2 days or so), and are probably in proportion to the amount consumed. I know some people are able to project in the evening after having a beer in the afternoon; I am sure as long as you drink a very modest amount of wine, you should not be held back too much, so many hours later.
1160  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: I love god on: December 27, 2010, 04:42:27
It sounds funny, but to me it is exciting seeing the world from an agnostic perspective. It means that nothing is worked out, nothing is written; everything is possibilities. Because I don't know, I get to discover everything for myself, for the first time. If there is a deity, I almost feel thankful in a way for the giving of this ignorance. It gives the world a kind of profoundly poetic mystery that it simply could not have if I knew all the details and had the fullest picture. You can't have a moment of silent brooding reverie if you have to listen to the 1000 angel choir all the time, afterall.

People are always yearning for greater knowledge of the world, and I think that perhaps they forget to enjoy the subtle beauty of their present experience and condition; children are always scoffed for wanting to grow older... maybe this is the same.
1161  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: I love god on: December 25, 2010, 19:20:57
I believe in the agnostic god. That is to say, the god who may or may not exist.
1162  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: I love god on: December 24, 2010, 13:12:30
there's a lot of astral projection in christian mythology.  i would be totally comfortable saying that every instance of divine vision is an astral experience.  every angelic encounter, every moment spent in the presence of "God", every divine word uttered in the ear of a follower, even bilocation (yea that's in there).  the bible is littered with these experiences, i'm sure of it. 

That might be so.

I can definitely say that later Jewish mysticism in the Kabballah is absolutely filled with explicit mentions of astral projection, and prescribes the use of a "Merkahbar" soul vehicle even, to facilitate the process.

Islamic Sufism also strays in the mysic direction at times, even to the extent that other sects declare Sufism an apostate movement.
1163  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: I love god on: December 24, 2010, 03:22:52
Do you know of any websites were Christians are psychic

Lol... got odd mental image of a church filled with people practicing psychokinetics.

Hmm... none come to mind, but then I wouldn't have searched for them, so I couldn't say. I do know that many Christians do come to this site, and the overwhelming issue they seem to bring to the table is whether or not it is a sin against their belief system to practice projections; since this bit seems to be the biggest hurdle, and where most of the Christians who come to the subject seem to linger, I would not guess that there is great organization, but that is not to say it doesn't exist.
1164  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Does Religon Play a Part in Astral Travel on: December 23, 2010, 11:17:48
I, and I assume you and many others here, have experienced the vibrations and we are still here, we are not smouldering in some hellfire on the whim of a great evil being. Therefore, the vibrations are not Satan whisking you away to hell for being a sinner.

This does not constitute proof. It is quite possible that Satan's charms work in a protean fashion, and massage away one's resistance slowly over time. Perhaps it takes thousands of projections for it to happen, but maybe it will overtime, given enough progress. Maybe that is what happened to Frank kepple.

I don't see at all what the point is in belief of complete and total subjectivity in everything.

Well, what is it about the physical world that you could claim to know? You don't know what matter looks like... it is colorless, and probably formless as well, despite the many levels of organization binding it into particular patterns. We never get to see this matter, though, only the interpretations our brains make about photons sent and reflected from it, processed several times over. Nor do we ever get to contact the matter with our minds, but merely receive signals that our body tells us originated from a point of touch or pressure. And so with all of our senses or means of gathering information about the world.

Ultimately, if you really think about it, since all we have are our sense perceptions and our self-originating ideas, there is really no ultimate proof that there even is a physical world to begin with, in the Cartesian sense. It very well may be the case, although I am not arguing that here, that we are merely minds being fed perceptions which suggest the existence of an outside world in which we all live and interact; and there is no way to know for sure whether this reality is true, or if the mundane accepted view is true; odder still, perhaps they are both true simaltaneously, in different senses.

I know for sure that pouring gasoline on a fire will provoke the fire.

Only if there is air present. Otherwise the gasoline will just put the fire out  wink
1165  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Does Religon Play a Part in Astral Travel on: December 22, 2010, 23:13:27
If a Christian woman interprets the vibrations and the split as Satan coming to reap her soul for being a naughty meditation-practising witch, then she is interpreting her experience wrongly, incorrectly, badly, whatever you want to call it. No matter how you look at it through that "you create your reality" lens, it is completely and 100% false and an absurd conclusion on her part which she wouldn't have arrived at had she been a mentally capable human being. This is a real life example I've used, by the way.

Well, it was true to her, and she was the one experiencing it. Ultimately, all we have are our own personal experiences, and how we interpret them. We don't even have actual contact with the phsyical world, since everything comes to us through the port of our senses, and is transformed and interpreted many times over by our brain processes, before we directly experience them. We all exist in our own personal consciousness, and have no direct contact with anything outside.

A Don Quioxte is no less heroic merely because others do not seem to share his sense of reality. The giants he overcomes and the selfless acts he commits are every bit as laudable.
1166  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Does Religon Play a Part in Astral Travel on: December 22, 2010, 21:04:47
Well... I think the reason why people who are fervently religious may have mystic / projection type experiences is because they will, in the case of the east, meditate for absurdly long times, or in the case of the Abrahamic religions, will pray in a repetitive and devotional manner for so long that it often amounts to meditation as well.

When you meditate for that long, you can begin to have your focus shift from your physical existence entirely, and that opens the door to all sorts of interesting, mystical-type experiences, projection and otherwise.

It is about the state of mind that these religious devotions procure, more than anything I would suspect.
1167  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Astral Projecting and mainstream media on: December 22, 2010, 11:14:37
Yeah, once you find out what it is you slowly come to realise that everyone knows what it is on some level, and references to it are everywhere in our media and culture. The only reason it's more well "known (understood)" is that people simply don't care about it. "Out of body experience" and "astral" are both common concepts which any person will immediately understand, but somehow people have developed the uncanny ability to push these huge significant references to the back of their minds and file it under "non-interesting".

Yeah, I had seen images from when I was very young that depicted astral projection. When I was maybe 7 or 8, I saw a movie scene where a yogi was sitting in meditation on a Himalayan mountain, and his "astral awareness" went floating off, a shadowing double, still in lotus position, lol. I had the idea planted in my head that projection was at least a concept, perhaps a religious one. It was not until about 13-14 that I actually found all this literature, and found out it was something I myself could do, give enough time.

I think many of the people I have known in my adult time have known what projection was, in synopsis, but never developed an interest; perhaps it was because they too viewed it as some branch of spooky mysticism having no bearing on their lives. I think most of them would have wanted to do it themselves, if they could be convinced it was possible.
1168  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Earth changes and 2012 on: December 21, 2010, 17:20:47
1169  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Earth changes and 2012 on: December 21, 2010, 09:14:15
No one really ever seems to agree where the photon belt is. Whenever someone wants to get people hyped up or freaked out, they always say, "Lo! The photon belt, a mere two years away!" It is always two years away. Just enough time to do meaningful things in your life before it happens, but not enough time to change things or avoid it, before we all bake/ ascend/ are invaded/ bake and ascend/ or we get the next prediction about how it is really coming 2 years later. Really, I have been hearing about it since mid-90s. I would not be surprised if people were talking about it in the 70s.
1170  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Re: the universe is it infinite? on: December 16, 2010, 07:15:33

I could not find material dealing directly with the theory I spoke of, but here is an excerpt from "Scientific American" dealing with the possible physical reasons for a uiverse with finite space.

I recommend reading it; they provide arguements for the universe possibly being a projection of a "hypersphere" that curves back into itself, or a representation of other closed contiguous surface geometries. One interesting concept that is mentioned in the article is that the idea that there are billions of other galaxies may be an illusion, and it may actually be the same handfull of a few thousand galaxies that we are seeing over and over, from different angles, as spacetime bends around to show us these same galaxies at different positions and times in their spacetime history.

But there are also two scientific lines of argument
that favor finitude. The first involves a thought experiment
devised by Isaac Newton and revisited by
George Berkeley and Ernst Mach. Grappling with the
causes of inertia, Newton imagined two buckets partially
filled with water. The first bucket is left still, and the
surface of the water is flat. The second bucket is spun
rapidly, and the surface of the water is concave. Why?
The naive answer is centrifugal force. But how does
the second bucket know it is spinning? In particular,
what defines the inertial reference frame relative to
which the second bucket spins and the first does not?
Berkeley and Mach’s answer was that all the matter in
the universe collectively provides the reference frame.
The first bucket is at rest relative to distant galaxies, so
its surface remains flat. The second bucket spins relative
to those galaxies, so its surface is concave. If there were
no distant galaxies, there would be no reason to prefer
one reference frame over the other. The surface in both
buckets would have to remain flat, and therefore the
water would require no centripetal force to keep it rotating.
In short, it would have no inertia. Mach inferred
that the amount of inertia a body experiences is proportional
to the total amount of matter in the universe. An
infinite universe would cause infinite inertia. Nothing
could ever move.
In addition to Mach’s argument, there is preliminary
work in quantum cosmology, which attempts to describe
how the universe emerged spontaneously from
the void. Some such theories predict that a low-volume
universe is more probable than a high-volume one. An
infinite universe would have zero probability of coming
into existence [see “Quantum Cosmology and the Creation
of the Universe,” by Jonathan J. Halliwell; Scientific
American, December 1991]. Loosely speaking,
its energy would be infinite, and no quantum fluctuation
could muster such a sum.
Historically, the idea of a finite universe ran into its
own obstacle: the apparent need for an edge. Aristotle
argued that the universe is finite on the grounds that a
boundary was necessary to fix an absolute reference
frame, which was important to his worldview. But his
critics wondered what happened at the edge. Every

edge has another side. So why not redefine the “universe”
to include that other side? German mathematician
Georg F. B. Riemann solved the riddle in the mid-
19th century. As a model for the cosmos, he proposed
the hypersphere—the three-dimensional surface of a
four-dimensional ball, just as an ordinary sphere is the
two-dimensional surface of a three-dimensional ball. It
was the first example of a space that is finite yet has no
problematic boundary.
One might still ask what is outside the universe. But
this question supposes that the ultimate physical reality
must be a Euclidean space of some dimension. That is, it
presumes that if space is a hypersphere, then that hypersphere
must sit in a four-dimensional Euclidean space,
allowing us to view it from the outside. Nature, however,
need not cling to this notion. It would be perfectly acceptable
for the universe to be a hypersphere and not be
embedded in any higher-dimensional space. Such an object
may be difficult to visualize, because we are used to
viewing shapes from the outside. But there need not be
an “outside.”
By the end of the 19th century, mathematicians had
discovered a variety of finite spaces without boundaries.
German astronomer Karl Schwarzschild brought this
work to the attention of his colleagues in 1900. In a
postscript to an article in Vierteljahrschrift der Astronomischen
Gesellschaft, he challenged his readers:
Imagine that as a result of enormously extended
astronomical experience, the entire universe consists
of countless identical copies of our Milky
Way, that the infinite space can be partitioned
into cubes each containing an exactly identical
copy of our Milky Way. Would we really
cling on to the assumption of infinitely many
identical repetitions of the same world?. . .
We would be much happier with the view that
these repetitions are illusory, that in reality space
has peculiar connection properties so that if we
leave any one cube through a side, then we immediately
reenter it through the opposite side.
Schwarzschild’s example illustrates how one can mentally
construct a torus from Euclidean space. In two dimensions,
begin with a square and identify opposite
sides as the same—as is done in many video games, such
as the venerable Asteroids, in which a spaceship going
off the right side of the screen reappears on the left side.
Apart from the interconnections between sides, the
space is as it was before. Triangles span 180 degrees,
parallel laser beams never meet and so on—all the familiar
rules of Euclidean geometry hold. At first glance, the
space looks infinite to those who live within it, because
there is no limit to how far they can see. Without traveling
around the universe and reencountering the same
objects, the ship could not tell that it is in a torus [see illustration
below]. In three dimensions, one begins with
a cubical block of space and glues together opposite
faces to produce a 3-torus.

When Albert Einstein published the first relativistic
model of the universe in 1917, he chose Riemann’s hypersphere
as the overall shape. At that time, the topology
of space was an active topic of discussion. Russian
mathematician Aleksander Friedmann soon generalized
Einstein’s model to permit an expanding universe and a
hyperbolic space. His equations are still routinely used
by cosmologists. He emphasized that the equations of
his hyperbolic model applied to finite universes as well
as to the standard infinite one—an observation all the
more remarkable because, at the time, no examples of
finite hyperbolic spaces were known.
1171  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Re: the universe is it infinite? on: December 16, 2010, 03:34:05
Stillwater, is it just that or do they think it reverts back unto itself because their own logic and reasoning had limits?

The people who theorize that the amount of space in the universe is finite don't postulate that because they want an explanation to the question of endlessness or finitude, but rather because they think that space "costs" the universe something to provide, and the idea that the bounds of the universe have no space beyond them follows from that reasoning.

I will try to find a source for this, so I am not pulling this out of the air.

1172  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Channeling God!! on: December 15, 2010, 14:08:50
Not sure if he speaks Arabic... or whatever that Cyrilic one (Russian?) was.

When you use alternate languages, you should post translations, since it is against forum policy.
1173  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Re: the universe is it infinite? on: December 15, 2010, 08:36:43
Some Physcists think that not only is the matter and energy in the universe finite, but also the space. Like past a certain point, there is no more capacity to support mass or energy being there, and space just curves back around into itself again past that point. I don't know why they think this, but I think they were reasoning along the lines that space does not exist  be default, but rather must be supported by the existence of energy within it. An interesting idea; it basically amounts to saying that try as you might, you could never fly away from the universe (at least in a physical sense).
1174  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: how many of you belive? on: December 14, 2010, 22:19:18
It does. By definition  wink
1175  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Trippy-ass videos on: December 13, 2010, 09:55:19
it is off-topic but yes - i agree that evil can be quite fascinating at times to explore.

It is interesting how psychopaths are often very kind persons outside their "work".

Yes. People like to dramatize the extreme differences they see between themselves, as "normal people", and people deemed psychotic, and profoundly departed from any reasonable sensibility. In truth, I think there is oftentimes only the subtlest difference in thought or manner in those who commit "evil" acts; just one peculiar thought or belief may motivate a person to quite audacious actions. People are fast to condemn, and declare others abberrant monsters, perhaps to distance themselves from the idea that they are not so different.

Hitler was actually lauded for his kindness and gentle ways, while he was not focused on his visions.
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