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1151  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: any Muslim members on: November 12, 2010, 03:39:14
What do you base this on? If you see Christianity as split up by many groups, sects, fractions and movements, so as not to count them as one anymore, then we should do the same with Islam.

Yes, this is the exact fact I was alluding to when I used the "by many accounts" modifier. The group that made this estimation was counting Christianity as being separate sects, the largest of which being Catholicism, and Islam as being one group. I do realize there are incredible differences between Islamic sects. But it is also interesting to note that the reckoning of these differences is interpretted differently by outsiders and many Muslims.

For instance, I asked an Iraqi I know if the mosque he attended was largely Sunni or Shiite, and his response was that the difference between these two major groups is vastly overplayed, and most Iraqis consider them the same for all intents and purposes. I don't know how credible this account was, since I perceive great violence to still occur as a result as of the separation of these groups, but it is something to think about.

And I definitely agree that this idea goes for Hinduism pretty much above any of the others that are lumped together... the many faiths and belief systems grouped together as "Hinduism" are vastly different... I would say the western equivalent of using the heading of Hinduism for all of these would be calling Judaism,Christianity, Islam, and the Gnostic faith by the single name "Abrahamism".

I mean, some forms of Hinduism believe directly in polythestic gods that can be invoked into idols, others are more "monotheistic", expressing the unity of the apparent many in Brahman Atman, and still others feel that idea of the gods and their stories are metaphors for the true reality, not meant to be taken literally in any way. There are some sects that are focused on ritual devotion to deities, and others, like the Upanishadic traditions, which are more concerned with the relationship of the individual to the cosmic essence, and are more mendicant or meditative in nature. I mean, you have Hare Krishna types over here, samanas and yogis there, and some people in a village with a Ganesha idol over in that corner. They don't see things the same way at all.

There are very few things that you could say about Hinduism that would be true of all these people at once.
1152  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: This is why FOX is banned in my country on: November 11, 2010, 19:18:19
What is the argument your topic is trying to make? It seems to be saying two things at once, lol, and I am not sure which of them is the saracastic reading which supports the other.
1153  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: US Black Debt Hole: 'We want you all bankrupt!' on: November 11, 2010, 19:08:11
Another masterpiece from that balanced, unbiased media organization, Russia Today ! wink
1154  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: any Muslim members on: November 11, 2010, 19:01:08
There are indeed... I want to say they probably number between 10 and 50- at least the ones I have seen openly discuss their faith. Islam by many accounts is probably the largest religious group now, so it is very hard for there not to be.
1155  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: This is why FOX is banned in my country on: November 11, 2010, 17:50:17
Glen Beck........
1156  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: how many of you belive? on: November 07, 2010, 12:53:13
But the idea that ties this all up, that your expectations will determine your future reality, is yet another type of belief. True, it is a belief about beliefs, but being a second-order belief does not excuse it from the same points of dispute.

I guess the question here is the difference between belief and knowledge. Some philosophers consider a belief to be a statement that is accepted, but with insufficient justification. Knowledge, then, is a statement that is accepted, with sufficient justification, and is also true.

A problem that leads into, however, is what constitutes sufficient justification. For instance, there is the problem of "wolf valley". Suppose a person is in a certain valley, which has two parts, separated by a tall hill. Now they see some sheep in front of them, and they claim as a point of knowledge that, "There are sheep in wolf valley". Now it would seem that this statement is knowledge, since it is accepted, true, and with sufficient justification. Now suppose that the sheep this person sees in wolf valley are actually wolves wearing sheepskin; but there are also real sheep on the other side of the hill, in the valley, but not seen by this person. Does the person still have knowledge that there are sheep in wolf valley? The person did have reasonable justification, and the fact did turn out to be indirectly true, but the justification was none-the-less not valid, since it did not directly lead to the truth of the knowledge.

So does this person have knowledge, or merely belief? Is justification based on what "seems" to guarantee, or what actually does? Because if knowledge, like that in wolf valley, can only be obtained by perfect, "actual" justification, then none of us can ever have any knowledge, since we only ever experience what seems to be. As a result, all we think or know can only ever be beliefs.
1157  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Nudist Hollow Heaven?? on: November 05, 2010, 23:14:13
David Blood a Tampa Florida religious leader building a nudist Christian theme park, in Tampa Florida.

So, they are building a theme park, which has the narrowed target demographic of families, with the further narrowing to a special interest religious group, and the even further narrowing to Nudist interests.

So draw yourself a three-way venn diagram, with the heading of people practicing recreation. One of the circles is family groups, another circle is Christian groups symapathetic to the type of Christianity being supported at the park, and the third circle is Nudist groups. How big do you really think the intersection of all three is?

There is no way there is enough of that target demographic to support anything, let alone a themepark. Even if a particular family of Nudists happened to practice the same breed of Christianity the park supported, would they really want to go to a place which mixed their religious lives with their lifestyle choices, in the most hokey way possible?
1158  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: November 03, 2010, 17:23:27
You make it sound like it is all one guy's fault. And that no one else in history was involved. And that a certain He Who May Not Be Named, a character richer than any satire was not at the helm for most of a decade.

It really isn't even about sides anymore. It is about going to hell in a handbasket perched aboard a speeding locomotive, and no one cares so much as to nudge the throttle back a hair.
1159  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: Quantum Jumping?? on: October 31, 2010, 09:40:34
Yeah... just have to say for someone claiming something so extraordinary, and to be the master of it all no less, he sure shows a lame skill set. I mean, you say you are making use of parallel universes and 24th century science... and it has taught you ... to take point-and-shoot pictures, and pound keys on a piano like a toddler? Am I missing something?
1160  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 30, 2010, 23:32:00
Well, I will just reiterate then that I feel nothing of value is going to come from either of the major parties. They are both filled with liars, theives, religious zealots, or corporate puppets (usually some combination of the above). Our political system has become so divorced from reality that nothing is to be gained by continuing as we are. People are led to believe that there is nothing they can do to change any of it, and the best they can do is to elect the opponent of the person they despise the least. I think we need to somehow transcend the system.

I am only half-joking when I say that electing people like this guy make take us someplace:
1161  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 30, 2010, 12:04:18
Yes, you are thinking of Godwin's law:

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
1162  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 29, 2010, 03:22:17
This is what I was thinking of, Nay:

She's way too conservative for me and my gut says that the way she stands in the public light is not who she really is. She also believes in "God's Plan" for america. No more christian conservatives in the white house please. Scary stuff.

I think I am with Stookie on this one.

We ended up in a decade of wars, partially because we had a guy who thought he was doing God's work to punish the Muslims, who's states make up an "Axis of Evil" (among other reasons I will not go into now). There may be big social problems today surrounding the expansion of Islam, and militant aggression among radicals, but he went about it in the worst possible way. And Palin seems to be cut from the same mold, using quasi-religious ramblings to justify jingoist belligerence.

When you are called to lead a country who's actions can have terrible repurcussions for the entire world, I think that you need to offer up much stronger justifications for your decisions than that you read something in a holy book that gave you ideas. Saying it's God's plan seems like an excuse to say that you can do whatever terrible things you want, and it was all fated, since it was what God wanted all along.

I have no problem with a leader with religious ideas. But as the head of a secular institution, that leader needs logical secular reasons to suppport their actions.

And again I am with Stookie saying that I have not seen the person worthy of such an office yet, who is not waist deep in corporate affiliations, religious zealotry, pre-conceived notions of what direction the government needs to be taking, and is cool-head enough and judicious enough to consider what is in the best interest of the world's population at every turn. I think a person like that would not look very impressive at a podium, for one thing.
1163  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 28, 2010, 01:23:09
I simply will never understand the visceral...hate?.. that some ppl feel towards certain politicians.

No, not hate at all. She seems like an okay person. But I think she would be dangerous to have in power. You can like someone, but still not like the idea of that person having command over atomic weapons. I don't think my mom should have atomic weapons.

I don't know why some find it uncomfortable for a women to have a role that is dominated by men.

For me it has nothing to do with her being a woman. It has to do with her using the fact that she is a woman as a means of leverage, as though it is a special qualification. I think the most mature thing for her to do would be to make it clear that her gender has no bearing on her political platform.

But as a Mom, I understand how hard it is to have your kids do the right thing.. I've been very lucky. 

I agree. Her children should not reflect on her. They are their own people, and make their own decisions. It is a sad tendancy our political system has for judging politicians by the sorts of families they have. It is very aristocratic, in the worst possible way.

I wasn't really directing my comment towards you Stillwater, though I did know you would comment.

Oh, that's okay Nay. I sorta' had the feeling you were speaking in a general, more rhetorical fashion. I did not mean my response to be personal either, though it was meant to address ideas you presented personally. No worries at all, I just tend to meet ideas as I see them is all! wink
1164  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 27, 2010, 19:38:42
I would take Palin over Obama ANY day. 

This man has become the liar in chief and it's an embarrassment how lacking in knowledge he is of how to run a country.  I don't know what people expected though.  The man was nothing more than a community organizer and was only a senator for like what... a hundred and fifty days before he decided to run for POTUS?  He had never ran a business, but Palin was Governor of Alaska for two years and Mayor of Wasilla Alaska for ten years.  IMO having experience is needed to be able to run the country.   If people would stop listening to media that is so far left we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. 

Just a week or so ago Obama came forward and admitted that there is "no such thing as Shovel ready jobs" Yet that is what he campaigned with for the stimulus package at the start of his presidency, he and others in his administration repeatedly insisted the investments would go to "shovel-ready" projects -- projects that would put people to work right away. As recently as August, however, local governments are still facing delays spending the money they were allocated from the stimulus.  Don't even get me started on Pelosi, Reid, and Barney Frank...  They were in control for the last two years of Bush's term, yet people continue to listen to the liberal media and blame Bush for everything, heck, Obama and thugs are still blaming Bush even though he's been POTUS for two years.  When is he going to take responsibility?

Then I must reiterate that I made no comment about Obama whatsoever. Politics is not a binary game, however much Americans have been blinded into thinking so. Being ashamed of Palin does not mean I have any positive feeling for Obama, I can and do severely distrust both of them.

People are so indoctrinated into thinking that when some person criticizes one leader, it is because they support the leader of the other party. I think the reason for that may in part be what I call "election campaigning for president by default". Essentially the idea is to play up some of your own positive traits, but mainly to run all manner of attack adds to show the constituents why they can't possibly have the other guy, and what a monster he is. The purpose is mainly to have people think that regardless of who is running against him, they must be better than that scoundrel. The benefit of this is that the person running the adds can rely far less on their postive credentials.

Since people are so used to thinking in this way as a result of this and other techniques in the two party system, it seems it is easy then to think that a person's political arguments are taking the same form.

So I would say Nay, you can't defend Palin by saying that I must therefore like Obama, and point out his flaws. We know Obama is a corporate-owned buffoon. That does not redeem Palin in any way.

Palin has been campaigning by trying to appeal to the least common denominator. She asserts that being a woman is a positive feature that greatly impacts her ability to make good decisions, rather than taking the logical route of suggesting it is a feature which is irrelevant to her qualifications postively or negatively. Her greatest platform so far seems to be that, "Mama Grizzlies" need to rise and take what is theirs. While I have no idea what this means at all, it seems to be suggesting that she supports legislation that deals with children- which is funny, since she will cut education despite what her platform may or may not say.

She was governer of Alaska for a couple years, probably the richest state in the union, and she abandoned the position and the people of alaska she campaigned for.

It has been pointed out numerous times that her own education is lacking and that she has no grasp of even recent U.S. history, and has needed a board of tutors constantly cramming ideas such as the major events of WW2, or why the Korean War happened. You are not qualified to run a country if you have no idea where it has even been lately.

But I guess what I am getting at might be the idea that none of the people we have elected recently really have the total knowledge or abilities that it truly takes to run a country this complex. It really takes a very large board of people to do it effectively, and the idea that the constituents are electing one person, and not a whole council to the office is an antiquated notion perpetuated to oversimplify things to the point that people can get an emotional attachment to the one person.

1165  Psychic and Paranormal / Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! / Re: Ouija Board on Halloween - stupid? on: October 27, 2010, 00:07:32
Well... my opinion is... who knows exactly what happens when you use a Ouija Board? It seems irresponsible to make a definitive statement about what might or might not happen, or how it funcitons, or what it can and cannot do. Bottom line I think is that no one is really qualified to say. I know a lot of people have had bad experiences with them, but it is anyone's guess why. It might be the subconscious expectation something bad will happen based on other people's accounts, or maybe some sort of guilt that it is a kind of mettling in something that should be left alone that manifest's a persons own fears. Maybe there really are entities being contacted.

It is one of those cases where it is impossible to separate the psychological element (it requires a person to move their own limbs to work, afterall, even if they don't think the movements are voluntary) from the lore surrounding the activity, and even possible metaphysical conotations.

I don't think using it on Halloween would have any significance, beyond expectations they bring to the table by using it then.
1166  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 26, 2010, 21:30:06
True. I don't really feel either of the two (there really aren't any more than that) political parties reflects my interests or what is in the interest of we here in the U.S., or the people of the world. They both treat the corporate world as a dangerous overlord which must be appeased, or will punish all, and don't stray from business as usual. What is needed now is something neither the radical conservtive party (Republican) or the moderate conservative party (Democratic) can willingly provide. Don't mistake my disgust for the one as praise of the other.

It is just that Palin seems like the most Romantic embodiement of what should never be in power, and is all the more likely to get it as a result.

If Sarah Palin gets the reins on the United States... that's checkout time.

I am working on my German Xanth... that is my ticket to Sweden, Denmark or Finland, until I got a foothold. Australia might not be a bad second if they won't have me there, lol, but the UK is too much like here now.  wink
1167  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: October 26, 2010, 20:48:28
Well, not much to say. This MSN article gingerly treats of the possibility of Sarah Palin running in the 2012 U.S. election by stating that McCain rejects the certainty of the notion, lol. But in doing so, it also unwillingly asserts the idea that it is a possibility that she may.


It seems like this is the last person whom should ever be elected to such a position; she makes Bush seem like an honor student. But should she be given the chance, I have faith that the same vote-tampering, weapons of mass distraction, gerrymandering and electioneering machine that managed to elect Bush twice will place her firmly in the oval office.

At which point, before she takes command, Jesus will spring from the womb fully formed, and decapitate her during a CNN live interview, and the emissaries of the galactic trade federation will come steaming in from the Proton belt to destroy planet X, disable the HAARP facility, spank the lizard people, and bring in some good vibrations. Glen Beck and Michael Moore will shake hands. Sylvia Brown will predict the sun will rise that day, and it does. James Randi will reveal that he has laser vision given to him by the Buddha, but that he wasn't able to tell anyone, as he was forced by a coalition of the Illuminati led by John Kerry and Jerry Springer to propogate a campaign of disinformation about the glorious metaphysical reality he is the cenerpiece of.

I think I know what is going to happen afterall.
1168  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Electronic Voice Phenomenon (EVP) on: October 26, 2010, 05:37:48
I am almost tempted to in that, "If everyone is so scared of them, they must do something really cool really fast" sort of way, lol.

I think it is the silly irrational fear that I have that if I do something like that the harm cannot be undone that stops me. Same thing that stops five-year-olds from saying "bloody Mary", lol.
1169  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Electronic Voice Phenomenon (EVP) on: October 25, 2010, 21:03:17
Here are some samples of this "Second type" I mentioned, which tends toward clarity and conversation:

(the way this odd site is setup does not allow a direct link, but from the homepage, go to the "sample contacts" sidebar, then to the "extraordinary contacts" sidebar after.)

The world ITC group was involved with the production of a device they claimed allowed them to have lengthy conversations with their contacts- they called it their "Spiricom".

Samples of the tapes they produced in the 50's/60's:
1170  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: Merkel: Multicultural society has utterly failed on: October 25, 2010, 07:42:32
At my own peril I clicked on the links. What does a chinese dress have to do with this subject? Why do I even ask.... I know why you are here  cry
1171  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: Awakening As One on: October 25, 2010, 07:39:33
That is an interesting idea, but I think a big obstacle is that there are many different viewpoints working in this site, and very few things accepts universally here. I think we are more a nexus of discussion then we are a single mind with respect to most ideas. There is a sort of "canon", which I would say contains ideas about 80% or so of us will agree with unquestioningly, however, and even certain ideas which are universally accepted.

The canonic ideas which most seem to agree with here:

-Projecitions reflect some sort of reality, be it mental or metaphysical not fully affirmed yet in the scientific community.
-Materialism is not likely to be the whole truth
-You can't get hurt in an OBE
-Anyone can OBE
-Evil has no cosmic place, only circumstantial manifestations (no great deceiver, etc)
-Robert Monroe is a swell guy
-Thought = action in OBE
-Bush was an agent of cosmic evil
-Things are not fully what they seem in our reality

I think this is a good start to the sorts of things you will find the widest agreement with here, but of course there will be scores that hold contention with each.
1172  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Electronic Voice Phenomenon (EVP) on: October 25, 2010, 07:12:52
Most of that stuff sounds like people snoring loudly into a microphone, and then they tell you it's a ghost saying "Comere!", or "Hi now!", or something totally random, like, "What are you!"

You can understand that I think most of that is people playing up nonsense to seem like something it surely isn't.

That is not to say there isn't a whole other category of EVP's that I have heard, where they have whole conversations about the other side. At least this second type, there is no doubt at all about the clarity, and you can focus on figuring out whether or not it is a hoax based on its own merits.

I believe it was some group calling it Instrumental transcommunication or something like that (ITC) that brought out all the better ones of the second type. The recordings have a late 19th century spiritualist ring to them, talking about seances, ectoplasm, and the "summerland", so this places doubt in my mind about them too, but who knows, it is certainly interesting. It was years and years ago I listened to them, but I can find some for you!
1173  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: I'm officially renaming the RTZ to DMZ on: October 24, 2010, 05:33:28
Haha.... anyone remember "ki beginner's nightmare"?  He used to say stuff like that all the time... and ask about how to shoot electrical bolts from his fingertips  grin

It was years and years ago... maybe stookie remembers!
1174  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: New York UFOs October 13th on: October 23, 2010, 03:47:04
Sylvia Browne predicted that Aliens would make contact in 2010... there's still time.

I would not hold my breath with Sylvia, lol... she has the track record of a magic eight ball  cheesy cheesy cheesy
1175  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: CERN scientists eye parallel universe breakthrough on: October 22, 2010, 01:03:08
ohhh... I misunderstood where the subjunctive qualification was intended to be made, lol. All good  wink

Like I said, just how I suspect things may work, that is all.
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