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1151  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: how many of you belive? on: December 07, 2010, 00:42:29
I used to have the same mindset. But truth is you either BELIEVE in a Metaphysical Reality, or you dont. Your going to put yourself through hell pondering in between. I really cant do that any longer though.

Well, you could also take the stance that there is not enough information to make a final conclusion. Most of the philosophers I know don't have too many concrete beliefs, because they have been exposed to too much plurality, and have heard the counterargument to every metaphysical assertion.

It will really only bother you if you let it... and on some levels, regardless of the metaphysical reality, the way you live your life will be the same. If you believe in compassion and helping others, you will likely do so whether you believe in a god, some other metaphysical substrate, or neither of these; the same goes for seeking new or transcendent experiences, or for meditative practices. Many spiritual ways of life, such as some forms of Buddhism, are remarkably independent of any metaphysical framework that they might associate with.

 If you are unsure, you will find out soon enough (or you won't!  cool ). If you live without expectations, you will always be surprised!
1152  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Chee Soo - Taoist Master on: December 06, 2010, 20:33:46
You must return to the state of the unhewn log.
1153  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Determinism vs Freewill on: December 06, 2010, 19:24:11

An "immaterial mind" is not a good explanation for the free will question. Try explaining the concept of an immaterial mind to someone who's suffered a stroke and now has a completely different personality because of physical changes to their brain.

The stroke example is a strong argument for materialism, but still not a disproof of other suggested solutions to the mind-body problem. A proponent of mind-monism, for instance, could retort that perhaps the person's mind was participating in a physical simulation-type reality, in which the the mind and brain are intimately tied, but still not insepparable in the greater paradigm.

if we are really matter reacting to stimuli, no matter how complicated those stimuli/reactions are, then those criminals were destined to commit their crimes at their moment of conception. Should they go free because they didn't choose to be born criminals? Absolutely not. Personally I think we can accept that free will is an illusion but still behave as if it exists.

Yes, I have often said this too. One of the reasons I don't believe in concept of punishment qua punishement is that there is no way to be certain that people are infact responsible for their actions, and capable of having done otherwise. I am okay with people being isolated for a time to protect other potential victims, but not in a harsh manner, or as punishment. More like quarantine, I guess, and only for the length of time necessary to know that they are not a likely danger.

I guess it depends on what spiritual beliefs you subscribe to. If you're dead set on believing in a conscious soul that is somehow thinking thoughts separately from your physical mind, you're forced to believe in free will. There's no way to prove or disprove this theory so it's somewhat of a show-stopper if you're trying to have a discussion.

This is not true, since as I have pointed out, immaterialists are also subject to the same problems the materialist faced, just one level of reality higher. They still need to explain how immaterial substance is capable of making choices, since how would they justify the reason for one choice being made, and not another, if there was a possiblity for each to be made?

There's some wiggle room if you think about quantum physics. I hate to bring up a topic I know so little about, but if there is true randomness at the atomic level then there's are possibly true undetermined outcomes in your brain matter, and thus your decision-making process. Whether this rolling of the dice equates to free will is another question altogether.

Yeah, that is a big grey area. I think my reason wants to side with the idea of "Bohmian mechanics", which states that quantum events only seem to have the appearance of randomacity because we do not fully understand all the forces, effects, and phenomena that happen at that level. For instance, say that there are vastly small sub-sub-atomic particles that are always coming into existence from the quantum vacuum, to fulfill some need of equilibrium in mass-energy topography, but then immediately self-annihilating with their anti-particles. This would saturate the sub-atomic landscape with unpredictable amounts of raw energy to be absorbed, and perhaps explain why those quantum events seemed to be occuring seemingly at random. I don't think quantum mechanics has found the finger of God, but rather just stumbled into a realm where our theory is jumping too far ahead of the ability of our current instruments to measure.

But perhaps these events truly are "random", and an insertion point for metaphysical influences. Who knows.
1154  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Frequency 528 Hz on: December 06, 2010, 18:58:31

Take a look at what these people are doing for the polluted Gulf of Mexico... They have a lot of equipment that powerfully blasts out frequencies.

Hutchison Effect Cleans Gulf
Hutchison Effect Cleans Gulf Waters
Scientist John Hutchison Uses Frequency Healing to Restore The Gulf After BP Oil Spill
(at 7:14 she says "528"; at 13:36 the Solfeggio frequencies circle is shown)

Apparently it is working, based on all the sample reports.


Yeah, but going back to the idea about making hard empirical claims, there is no way to test a conclusion like that. There are not two planet earths, each with an identical gulf spill, where they can experiment on the one, and leave the other untouched as a control. There is no way to say that any improvemnt being made was not something simply caused by geological processes over time, or by the actions of some other party using some other means at the same time.

1155  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: LA Incident "movie"? on: December 05, 2010, 04:37:11
I was always entertained by Hollywood movies that depict battles between humanity and aliens. If aliens came, they would take what they want, period. And I suspect that perhaps they do. I have a feeling that despite what new-agers would tell you, aliens are likely to have radically different conceptions of ethics than we do, and they might easily condone doing things we would cringe at, and vice-versa. There are perhaps some entities with what we would think of as our best interest at heart, but also exceedingly likely are those who do as they please.

Assuming alien species exist, as I believe they do, we are still here, mostly unmolested, because

1) We are protected by some force or interest, or
2) We have nothing of value to take
1156  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: 2012 swag on: December 04, 2010, 14:56:22
I think the direction in which our hip hop/rock/pop stars have gone towards is most definitive of a hidden scheme to plant the seeds of truth within the minds of our youth.

The truth has never been mainstream. Kongzi (Confucious), Zhuangzi and Laozi (The two great Daoists) were all pretty much near enemies of the state, living on the fringe. Very little art or meaning comes from the accepted or popularly sanctioned channels.
1157  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: 2012 Is So Silly on: December 04, 2010, 14:46:38

I like the second one best... and it actually describes my belief on the subject. LOL

Well, the Mayan calender is not based on nothing, lol- you should give them much more credit than that. It is based on the precession of the equinoxes. So.... in 2012..... the equinoxes will have precessed.
1158  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Determinism vs Freewill on: December 04, 2010, 14:27:23
Yeah, that is a common approach to the problem- saying we can still have determinism, but the thing making determinations in the case of rational creatures is an immaterial mind. But that, in a way, might be begging the question, since the problem simply rises to the next level, and we then have to consider if these immaterial minds or substances are free or pre-determined; because if they are pre-determined, the answer is simple, they just do what they do because their actions are shaped by immaterial laws; but if they are free and able to make multiple choices, then the problem is back, and just as massive. If immaterial minds were free and able to make choices, then what would cause them to make one choice over another? If nothing was forcing them to, how would you justify what happened?
1159  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: MUST READ Baba Vanga predictions! on: November 30, 2010, 20:03:06
I think I read someplace that these particular predictions ( the predictions going 3000 years into the future ) were forged by some random Russian source, and ascribed to Vanga. Don't know who to believe with this stuff... so much heresay.

But I agree, tofu, that this stuff is good to post, to get out there for discussion.
1160  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Members' Artwork on: November 25, 2010, 13:20:48
Maya, Rhino, or viz/3ds max?

Looks like street building is photoshopped in, near alley rendered (has no watertable base, or cross-wythe bonds), directional spotlight directly above.

Haha... look at everything like an architect, lol.  Nice figure!
1161  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: MUST READ Baba Vanga predictions! on: November 25, 2010, 01:14:02
He looks like something Tim Burton cooked up.

Haha, that is what I thought too. I was actually corrected in thinking this, when it was pointed out to me that "The Nightmare Before Christmas" characters and other Burtonisms were in reality derived from the Slenderman, who lives as a primal archetype in our subconscious.

lmao, what about candlejack stillwater, why didn

Exactly  wink


But on topic, while I find Baba Vanga's case interesting, what bothers me is how they ascribe so many "correct" predictions, but never seem to list what the exact statement was, or when it was made. For instance, they say that she predicted Diana's death, but they never provide the exact statement to let people judge for themselves. It just has too much of a heresay and pop-folksy hero character to it to seem credible. And she does have some wild predictions coming down the pike, lol. I know there is probably a language gap working against her here, but....

2088 A new disease aging for a few seconds!

2097 The rapid aging defeated.
What could that even mean?

2164 Animals turn half-human.

? ? ?

4304 Found a way to win any disease.

Care to elaborate?

4674 The development of civilization has reached its peak. The number of people living on different planets is about 340 billion. Assimilation begins with aliens.

5076 A boundary universe. With it, no one knows.

5078 The decision to leave the boundaries of the universe. While about 40 percent of the population is against it.

5079 End of the World.

I can understand what "end of the world" means now-just some bad event happening to the earth or its people. What could the end of the world mean in the context of a galactic empire stretched across innumerable planets?

I am not saying Vanga is wrong by any means, but there does not seem to be enough information readily avaible on her to validate the claims made of her authenticity. It is always a bad sign when sources are oft cited, but never presented.
1162  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: MUST READ Baba Vanga predictions! on: November 24, 2010, 20:13:29
Stillwater, what is the slenderman?  Is it supposed to be like the Christians Satan coming to earth or something?

The slenderman is an idea that is basically a synthesis of all the creatures and shades that result from subconscious fears, combined with the echatological prophecies of the western religions. He is like a crooked patchwork of all these ideas and fears stitched together in one figure.

His myth has been described many ways, but his essential features are that he is impossibly tall and spindly, dressed in dark clothing, somtimes a suit, and is without face. He stalks through the woods, perhaps hunting children, where his dark silohette causes him to be confused with tree limbs and trunks.

It is a sort of running internet joke that he can be mentioned with other, more accepted ideas of creatures or prophecies, and be given immediate and unquestioned acceptance, since he seems to be directly made from elements that seem so subconsciously familiar. Plus his very name, in a queer way, sounds like he should be something terrible, without knowing a single other thing about him.
1163  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: MUST READ Baba Vanga predictions! on: November 24, 2010, 13:46:06
Don't be silly, lol. Lots of people claimed to know about 911.

And plus, we all know the apocalypse will not happen before the coming of the slenderman. It is one of the predicted forerunners, he is in all the prophecies.


But on another note, I feel terrible for the Korean people. They have to put up with madmen like Kim Jong Il running the show, and a very real possibility of war that will likely claim millions of Korean lives. At least the U.S. soldiers who die chose to become involved in the army, but I can tell you that Korea, even South Korea, practices mandatory military service for all male citizens. It really is a no win situation for anyone, and it is the people of Korea that will suffer.
1164  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: how many of you belive? on: November 22, 2010, 20:12:00
My husband used to say to me 'we'll all find out soon enough, why worry about it now?' when I would ask him how he felt about life after death and it used to get me a bit angry.  I mean, here I was with this urgent need to know if what I was experiencing was part of the answer and he could give nothing more than a shoulder shrug. 

I'm pleased to say, I get it now.  Proof or no proof, it doesn't matter.  Believing or not will not change what really happens, so why worry?

Sometimes I think that if there is indeed a metaphysical reality, as I think there likely is, that maybe we are just not supposed to know about it, or at least have certainty.

I mean, part of the human experience is having doubt about the fate of human consciousness, and that tends to make our present lives more precious. Since we mostly all have doubt about what is beyond our scope, we are better allowed to live in the present moment, and immerse ourselves in the experience of this reality and its dramas. I mean, sure lots of people want more knowledge, but there are some things you can only experience through ignorance. I mean, can a being that has lived for the equivalent of millions of years of awareness really feel the same joy sitting at a piano, or feel same thankfulness toward elders protecting us as children? How can a million year-old being feel even feel vulnerable?

It is like our lives are the most immersive play possible. In a normal play, you merely watch a recreation of the action, and need exposition to surmise what the actors are thinking and feeling. In this one, you actually get to be the actor themself, and get immersed in their world and emotions, feel their limitations and their joys.
1165  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Determinism vs Freewill on: November 19, 2010, 19:54:31
Philosophy is fun  Haha. but usually ultimately pointless.

I would say that this is very far from the truth. Probably the greatest fruit of philosophy in history has been to disabuse people of the notion that they know particular things for certain. When certain ideas, particularly religious ones take hold of a society, they can direct the course of its history, as the Abrahamic ones have done for more than 2000 years. Philosophy gives the tools for showing people they cannot conclusively prove things they thought they knew, and would have acted on. Descartes, Hume, and others provided ideas about uncertainty regarding the senses as a source of information, and the innability to use induction as valid tool for argument, and these ideas led directly into the scientific enlightenment.

I am not at all saying that this religion or that is untrue, but I am saying that holding the conviction that what you believe is proven beyond doubt is a dangerous notion, and philosphy has helped us break free of that position.

I disagree.  I'd say 'as they grow older', because the dance between the rational mind and the emotional mind are not linear and progressive- I'd say it's more like a curve.  In your twenties you become 'more rational' but in your forties the trend starts go go a different way.  I can say that in my case I have become more dream-driven and emotional after I hit my forties, and in my family at least, old people are not rational at all.  In both good and bad ways, old people overcome the lessons learned and go back to not caring that much about consequences, which are a function of the 'rational' mind.

I agree with this CFT, I have observed this to be the case too. Old people and children have much in common- children live in a word before ration, and older people have sometimes, with effort or experience, learned to look past ration the guiding principle of the world. I guess a few dreamy artist-types may maintain this position all along.
1166  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Determinism vs Freewill on: November 19, 2010, 05:34:23
Many contemporary philosophers think free will and determinism might be compatible, so they are not necessarily mutually-exclusive. The reason for this comes from a common reading of the concept of determinism to read as, "Everything happens for a reason" ie., a determination. So if you viewed most of nature to be inanimate, and mechanical, under this view of determinism, there could only be one possible outcome for any given event that does not have conscious agency involved in it. But any event involving conscious agency would also be determined, but determined by the choice of those making decisions, and furthermore, it would not have been a necessary choice, unlike the necessary results of mechanical events in nature. I don't necessarily agree with this viewpoint, but it is one that several notables hold.

The major problem people trying to defend free-will outside a determinist framework face is explaining why things involving choice happen at all. It is simple when you are dealing with a pre-determined event, as under most deterministic theories, since the reasons are all spelled out, they are the laws of nature and the current state of the universe. But when you are dealing with choice... why did one thing happen, and not another? What caused you to make that particular choice? There could be no cause, or you would be back to determinism. But if there was no cause, then why did it happen?

The thing is, once you have been in philosophy long enough, you start to lose your own views, lol. You just start to think of possibilities, and alternatives. You favor some, and shy away from others, but never really have definitive veiws. This was true of most of the philosophers I have known, at least.
1167  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What happened to (and how is) Frank Kepple? on: November 18, 2010, 08:16:28
Some people have suggested that he got into a bind when he took orders for a book he could never get printed, and did not want to deal with giving all the refunds, lol, so just "disappeared. 

I guess that is the alternative.

Who knows... I tend to think it was the health thing, but have no authority to say.
1168  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: is i posibel ? on: November 18, 2010, 08:12:59
Yes, but the catch is that you can only ever see things as John Malkovich does; he is the only choice, I am afraid.
1169  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: How many.. on: November 15, 2010, 09:36:06
I have been involved for years, and have had a few people give sideways suggestions that they were involved as well. Many more show a fringe-type familiarity with the idea of the "astral realm", but it is very rare to meet other practitioners, if you don't work or live in a place that facilitates communication about the subject.
1170  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Vague possibility Palin will enter 2012 election clearest sign of impending doom on: November 14, 2010, 19:50:26
Well now.... "Drill, baby, Drill", is making a nature show. Still have doubt, lol? There is no irony here ? Not a little black droplet!
1171  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: This is why FOX is banned in my country on: November 12, 2010, 03:49:15
Ah. So you support Glen Beck, and Fox News, and becry that it was silenced, and believe Beck's account of Soros is accurate. Thanks for clearing it up, now it makes more sense.

While I greatly dislike Fox News, since they have obvious and open ideological affiliations which they allow to taint their presentation of every matter they address, throwing the idea of media neutrality and unbiased reporting out the window, and also happen to disagree with pretty much everything Beck says, I will say that he might be right about Soros.

There really is very little stopping a person from playing the puppetmaster with the machinery of economics if the rules governing their functioning are understood well enough. I think this fact is one reason (besides many others, some of which rooted in fact, some not) that people postulate the existence of an illuminati class. People want to believe that someone is there pulling the strings, and the machine is not running itself unattended, which is itself a very scary idea.
1172  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: any Muslim members on: November 12, 2010, 03:39:14
What do you base this on? If you see Christianity as split up by many groups, sects, fractions and movements, so as not to count them as one anymore, then we should do the same with Islam.

Yes, this is the exact fact I was alluding to when I used the "by many accounts" modifier. The group that made this estimation was counting Christianity as being separate sects, the largest of which being Catholicism, and Islam as being one group. I do realize there are incredible differences between Islamic sects. But it is also interesting to note that the reckoning of these differences is interpretted differently by outsiders and many Muslims.

For instance, I asked an Iraqi I know if the mosque he attended was largely Sunni or Shiite, and his response was that the difference between these two major groups is vastly overplayed, and most Iraqis consider them the same for all intents and purposes. I don't know how credible this account was, since I perceive great violence to still occur as a result as of the separation of these groups, but it is something to think about.

And I definitely agree that this idea goes for Hinduism pretty much above any of the others that are lumped together... the many faiths and belief systems grouped together as "Hinduism" are vastly different... I would say the western equivalent of using the heading of Hinduism for all of these would be calling Judaism,Christianity, Islam, and the Gnostic faith by the single name "Abrahamism".

I mean, some forms of Hinduism believe directly in polythestic gods that can be invoked into idols, others are more "monotheistic", expressing the unity of the apparent many in Brahman Atman, and still others feel that idea of the gods and their stories are metaphors for the true reality, not meant to be taken literally in any way. There are some sects that are focused on ritual devotion to deities, and others, like the Upanishadic traditions, which are more concerned with the relationship of the individual to the cosmic essence, and are more mendicant or meditative in nature. I mean, you have Hare Krishna types over here, samanas and yogis there, and some people in a village with a Ganesha idol over in that corner. They don't see things the same way at all.

There are very few things that you could say about Hinduism that would be true of all these people at once.
1173  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: This is why FOX is banned in my country on: November 11, 2010, 19:18:19
What is the argument your topic is trying to make? It seems to be saying two things at once, lol, and I am not sure which of them is the saracastic reading which supports the other.
1174  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: US Black Debt Hole: 'We want you all bankrupt!' on: November 11, 2010, 19:08:11
Another masterpiece from that balanced, unbiased media organization, Russia Today ! wink
1175  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: any Muslim members on: November 11, 2010, 19:01:08
There are indeed... I want to say they probably number between 10 and 50- at least the ones I have seen openly discuss their faith. Islam by many accounts is probably the largest religious group now, so it is very hard for there not to be.
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