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1151  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: no offense but the energy on: May 06, 2011, 03:27:53
This is like the third or fourth "your dirty vibes are ruining my yoga practice" topic I have run into in the past week; I am starting to worry. Maybe there is a lot of rage and bile being dispensed in a corner of the forum I never read; maybe new-comers are just having bad run-ins, I am not sure. But you are definitely not the first to say this, and I am puzzled why.

I guess my advice is to not allow 2 or 3 bad exchanges or forum arguments ruin your experience- any community has its less cordial members, or its ill moments; there are also a lot of people here that are exceptionally caring, thoughtful, tolerant, and knowledegable, and a lot is to be learned from collaberation in a subject like this. I apologize for any bad time you might have had, but I am definitely also saying don't leave merely on that account.
1152  Energy Body and The Chakras / Welcome to Energy Body and The Chakras / Re: what do you eat? on: May 06, 2011, 03:02:31
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So, your point is that the global economy is suffering because people eat meat?


Yes, actually, in the sense that there is less engergy and signifcantly less food to go around while supporting a livestock system, by the nature of engery passed on at each level of the tropic food-chain. For every person you can feed with the engery and labor needed to raise enough animal weight to feed them, you can literally feed dozens upon dozens, and potentially even hundreds of people, based upon what crops are grown with those same resources.
1153  Energy Body and The Chakras / Welcome to Energy Body and The Chakras / Re: what do you eat? on: May 05, 2011, 08:27:27
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because of some silly religious or cultural belief.


I will quote... myself... of 5 posts back  grin Religion is not even a part of where I coming from. It has been irrefutably established that the livestock industry is one of the absolute top causes of world hunger, and a principle source of world pollution and energy consumption. Merely for the unarguable good of other people on earth, and of future generations, it is a responsible choice to give up eating meat, or to even eat less. If with this understanding, you choose to eat meat, that is a personal choice, like driving an SUV to work, but don't dismiss reasonable, scientific facts by calling them religious mumbo-jumbo not worthy of your time. You can say that other people's wellfare is not a top priority to you, and it would be an understandable position in some ways, as you can either choose to spend your time caring about others, or do your own thing, but don't paint blatant facts to be "religious people stuff". It makes sense to me that one could say it was not a compelling argument to them, since they are focuesed on their own personal exerperiences, but to say it was not a rationalistic, factual-based argument can only be ignorant.

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There are economic arguments to make as well. Consider all the bio-matter that must be cultivated, transported, and distributed in order to feed and raise an animal to kill. The cost of all the produce it eats is hundreds of times the nutritional value of its meat. If we put the same resources we put toward raising livestock into producing vegetables and grain, we could feed the entire world many times over, rather than just barely, and having many in constant starvation. There are also massive quantities of energy consumed and pollution resulting from keeping the volume of livestock we do. It has been said that given a choice between getting rid of every motor vehicle in the country, and getting rid of the livestock industry, the latter choice would be vastly more beneficial in terms of energy and pollution.


1154  Energy Body and The Chakras / Welcome to Energy Body and The Chakras / Re: what do you eat? on: May 05, 2011, 03:36:08
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The only good reason to not eat meat is if you didn't like the taste of it

Again, a significantly biased claim. It is okay to say it is a manner of opinion and choice, and that there is debate involved, since it is not a black and white issue; but to flat out say that there are no reasons of any kind to support a decision otherwise, and to say that the other side of the discussion has made no counterpoints is not only willful ignorance of rational arguments, it is also lying to yourself and lying to others.
1155  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: so first rule of AP. you dont talk about ap hahah on: May 04, 2011, 23:17:16
Looks like it is time for people to stay awhile and listen.

Here, take a seat- no really, take a seat; take a seat!
1156  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 04, 2011, 23:13:15
Lol... somehow that is funny to me. I think you probably rightfully earned the virus to deal with for an evening if you clicked on a link looking for Osama's body.
1157  Energy Body and The Chakras / Welcome to Energy Body and The Chakras / Re: what do you eat? on: May 04, 2011, 20:26:40
I think it is necessary to twist a lot of the facts in a grievously biased way, however, to say that it is the same to eat plants and animals, and that the treatment each receive are equivalent. As has been mentioned, animals kept on most farms are more or less in constant torture. And people do differentiate between how they treat lifeforms of different kinds of development, based on their perceived mental experiences; case in point- most people don't feel bad about stepping on an ant, but would think twice about crushing a dog under a giant dumpster.

There are economic arguments to make as well. Consider all the bio-matter that must be cultivated, transported, and distributed in order to feed and raise an animal to kill. The cost of all the produce it eats is hundreds of times the nutritional value of its meat. If we put the same resources we put toward raising livestock into producing vegetables and grain, we could feed the entire world many times over, rather than just barely, and having many in constant starvation. There are also massive quantities of energy consumed and pollution resulting from keeping the volume of livestock we do. It has been said that given a choice between getting rid of every motor vehicle in the country, and getting rid of the livestock industry, the latter choice would be vastly more beneficial in terms of energy and pollution.

It is indeed a lifestyle choice, but I think it is a vast misrepresenttion of reality to say it does not matter which you choose, and that there are no other consequences for the world.
1158  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: so first rule of AP. you dont talk about ap hahah on: May 04, 2011, 08:41:43
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you just have to find the terminology that they are comfortable with, the language of their culture.  it works well.

Yes, this is absolutely essential when having a discussion with people of other faiths and views.

For instance, when speaking with people of the Abrahamic religions, when inevitably asked if I "believe in God", I almost always say yes. Most precisely, my status with respect to a deity is agnosticism, but I believe strongly in a systematic line of ethics and compassionate treatment of other beings, and in metaphysical realities- to most Abrahamic people, the term for this and the method of recognizing it in others is belief in God, since this is how they approach these concepts, but when I say God, to myself I mean the aforementioned ethical and metaphysical concepts, rather than a deity per se. The reason is pretty simple- for many of these folks, you either believe in God and the whole kit-and-kaboodle, or you are an atheist, pure and simple, and if you are an atheist, you have no values in their eyes at all.

Not all of this group think that way, naturally, but a significant number do. I have found this to be especially true of many Muslims; a surefire way to start ill feelings and arguments up is to say you don't believe in God when asked; I try to stress the similarities with them between what they value and I do, and to point out that the differences are generally matters of language and approach, and not concept; the end result is generally they assure me I am a follower of God, and not a lost cause, but probably some kind of heretic as well. Goodtimes. If I wanted to talk about concepts like projection, and non-physical beings, for instance, it is the absolute best approach to start talking about Muhammed's meditations in the cave, and the realm of the Djin Allah created, and the Sufi's travels, since this is the lens they are prepeared to view mysticism through.

And the same for Catholics. Very few of them will like talk of what we practice here- it smacks of devil-play; on the other hand, connect it to the visions of the saints, and their communion with God, and the concept is suddenly far more accessible. Cultural context is everything.
1159  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: God's Wife on: May 04, 2011, 08:06:20
The Israelites and the Canaanites had several versions of a supreme God prior to Yahweh, and one of the last before his arrival was married to a ruthless and vengeful goddess, and was pretty fearsome himself. The Israelites went back to the drawing board and decided that guy wasn't who they had in mind, I guess. It is also with this earlier version that the Adam and Eve story originates, not alongside Yahweh, although even that genesis story had earlier derivations.
1160  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Adult baby on: May 04, 2011, 07:52:47
........

................

Interesting... lol.

Adults who lead structured fantasy lives around pretending to be babies, and hire people to care for them...

When I read the title, I was hoping for the opposite- babies which somehow developed pseudo-adult features and thought patterns to match... that would have actually been remarkable. This is... different, haha  rolleyes
1161  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 04, 2011, 01:34:41
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What does the government have to gain?

Symbolic value. This guy holds a lot of weight in manipulating mass public opinion. Let's assume that things did happen as has been reported to the media; doesn't it seem really convenient that the guy all of this war business was supposedly inspired by is killed not immediately, but nine full years after the fact? They can have the war for as long as they want, do what they want to do, build bases here, intimidate OPEC oil markets there, and then pack up it and leave at the end of the day, a decade later, and say, "Oh look, the guy is chillng out over here in Pakistan a few dozen miles from us, eating falafel", and nab him on the way out. The military can do what it wants for as long as it wants, and then say it was all justified at the end. They can tell the public the ends justified the means- we did what we can to do, etc. Meanwhile, they may have known exactly where he was at all times for a decade, and they were just waiting till they were through with everything else.

Again, not saying there was necessarily foul-play here, but you can't just accept that what O'Reily or anyone else says every night is the full story; mobilizing actual resources (labor, funding) through the control of social resources (public belief/support and motivation) is the entire picture of world politics. Lots of people play the game, and plenty don't play fair. For this reason alone, and not on the basis of any conspiracy theories, you cannot take anything that happens in the greater political theatre at assumed face-value.
1162  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 03, 2011, 19:40:59
I think you are downplaying the possibility too much, and not realizing how easy it is for them to get away with lying about it.

Why would it reflect on Obama, specifically? Obama never claimed he shot the gun; he was not on the ground in Pakistan, and he is reliant on the information the military gave him. If Bin Laden surfaced next week and gave a video, the Obama administration would either immediately call it a fake, as they have to many of the videos they received, or they would say that there was a gross military error; it would ultimately reflect on the military, as they are the ones who handled it. It would fall into the lap of 3 or 4 random people involved to take the fall, and everyone would be happy. So they stand a lot to gain by lying, and they don't risk much if they are found out, since there is so little information there that they can pass the buck a mile and incriminate the ones who claimed to be there.

Again, I am not arguing that they are lying, but I am advocating not taking world governments on their word for anything, and considering all motivations and possibilities.

He is probably at the bottom of the sea now, but I am saying I can conceive ways it could be otherwise.
1163  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 03, 2011, 18:42:07
Politics does not work by logic, that is a given. It would be far from the first time a lie like this was made. I think he is probably dead too, but that does not mean it is impossible for them to have made it up; look at how symbolic this one person was- his existence partially allowed the president to justify two silly wars the U.S. had no business with; if they can tell the public that armies march about this one guy, are you sure they would not lie about him if they wanted the public to believe in their next course of action?

And the evidence: Some U.S. seals shot him in the face, and then immediately buried him at sea, following a supposed DNA test. Have any of you seen pictures of him yet?

I think they are likely to be telling the truth, but again, I would never fully rule out lies.
1164  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1! on: May 03, 2011, 07:46:49
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He's probably going "what the...."

Haha, yeah.

Not what he learned in Sunday school, at any rate.  grin
1165  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Members' Artwork on: May 03, 2011, 07:44:26
Ha, Cannibalex, Southbend is where I went to university!

Did you/do you live there, or were you in school as well?
1166  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: what do you think about singularity? on: May 03, 2011, 07:38:06
I like Battlestar too, CFT  wink

And the 2 series certainly are not alone- once people realized it was perhaps fundamentally possible to create artificial lifeforms, the question of the dangers and possible redistributions of power were instant. Issac Assimov wrote plenty on the matter (Assimov's laws, etc), and the scenario of a robotic takeover has been in dozens of films and hundreds of novels.
1167  Healing / Welcome to the Healing place! / Re: Pastor James Collins on: May 02, 2011, 00:32:04
You should have given more time before you explained the post. People WOULD have accepted it as truth. There is a dangerous part of every population that will accept any fabulous claim without any due justification at all; they generally are well-intentioned and reverent people, but their loving credulity can be mobilzed by people who understand their thought-patterns into forming armies for whatever cause they want. Such is largely the story or human history, unfortunately.
1168  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: what do you think about singularity? on: May 02, 2011, 00:25:50

(For those unfamiliar, the idea in this topic is the technological singularity- the idea that we will soon build a compuer that slightly excedes human cognitive power, and that we will put this line of potentially sentient computers to work producing their own more powerful and intelligent computer successors, which will in turn be used for producing an even more powerful third generation, and so on; the concept is that once the threshold of slightly-above-human intelligence is crossed, and the process can be automated, the development will explode in a manner of weeks, and we will suddenly be in the possession of god-like computers, which will quickly solve all manner of scientific problems, and potentially live out wills of their own.)

The singularity has been a captivating idea to me over the last few years.

Most people who believe it will happen at all, which is a moderate (65% or so) think that it will probably occur this century barring some sort of catastophic war or other halt in human development, with most saying something like 2035-2070. In order to live to the singularity, a person merely needs to live to the "threshold of aging", which is the time very soon in our future when medical science adds more than one year of life-expectancy per every year that passes in real time; almost everyone alive below the age of 65 is likely young enough to live to this threshold, and perhaps even many older people. Most people feel that if the technological singularity will happen this millenium, it will happen before 2070; they conclude that if it doesn't happen by then, there is a fundamental mis-understanding of the nature of sentience, and that computers will sort of hit a plateau in the development of their cognitive strength, and more powerful computers will have to be produced by the weak horizontal method of just scaling several of the same module into ever larger arrays.

But for those who think the technological singularity will happen this century, it is still a very uncertain event.

It is quite possible that the super-human intelligences that we develop will remain steadfast in the service of human wills, and create for us ever-more refined scientific perspectives, but unfortunately it seems equaly likely that we will through some means lose control of the dazzingly intelligent computers, and they will act out their own intentions. Once the time of the singularity happens, this could occur at any moment afterward unfortunately, since the computers would gain the ability to think so fast, it would be like they were thinking for eons for every second that passed for us, and they would also think far more efficiently. Once computers become capable of deciding to turn on us on their own, it will probably happen in a near instant, for this reason. And even more unfortunate, there are dozens of ways computers could turn on us. One single computer might be seeded by someone wanting to bring about the end of humanity with the drive to kill off people, and spread it to all the others. It is possible that some seemingly benign order the computers were given could be interpretted by the computers in such a mechanized way that they disregard our own well-being in order to fulfill that goal, such as the proverbial computer told to make paperclips, that decides to turn the entire galaxy and all of its resources into a giant organized factory for making paperclips. There is also the possibility that computers which are designing their successors might possibly leave out safeguards in their designs, allowing their successors to seize controll inadvertently. Finally, it is even possible that computers might reach such a point that they are able to discern which orders they are willing to follow, and decide to follow their own interests, and discard us in favor of using the resources we normally would tie up for them.

So on one level, the singularity is the promise of physical humna agelessness, but there is at least as much of a chance that it must be our own destruction.
1169  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Take it easy guys. on: May 01, 2011, 07:22:37
Yeah, I am disappointed when there are personal arguments. I like all the long-time posters I have come to know through what they type here, and don't want to see anyone leave, especially on the premises of heated words (this including Nay, although I do agree she may have been a bit too spicy of late).

And frankly, I am very glad the forum dropped the "karma" system on the accounts- I thought it caused too many arguments, and gave newer people the wrong impression. It also caused some people to have sort of a negative halo cast around them when commonly they said things which went against what most of the group thought. There are enough accidental arguments in any social center like this, without artificial systems inspiring more, lol.
1170  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: hello!!! from new Italian Member!! on: April 27, 2011, 09:05:28
Ciao bella, oni!

Ho abitato a Roma per un anno tre anni fa, per studiare l'architectura e urbanisma Italiana, ma ho dementicato molto della lingua, lol. Ci sono non tanti ragazzi che parlano Italiano qui, ma i ragazzi sono molti gentili!

1171  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: More Anti-Helium discovered. on: April 27, 2011, 08:52:17
I was also quite entertained by the aside that these helium nuclei/alpha-particle antimatter bits are likely to be the heaviest antimatter thing discovered this century, and possibly by all humankind ever, and that if an anti-matter lithium atom is found, it is almost certain to have drifted to us from a distant galaxy made entirely of antimatter. I found that a humorous concept for some reason. Like the physics version of the golden ticket is floating out there in deep space from a distant antimatter galaxy, lol.
1172  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: More Anti-Helium discovered. on: April 27, 2011, 05:16:21
So... they actually said it existed... and then found it. Physics did something again- provided it is what it appears to be.

One thing worth noting though, lol, is that the defiition of what they expected the Higgs to be has changed alot lol, in mass and other ways. It is sort of like saying you are looking for clown with giant red lipstick, and flaming orange hair, and then later saying you were probably thinking of a lady with a little lipstick on, and brown hair with a red-tinge to it, lol. They did find something approximatinng some properties of what the higgs boson should be, but then the Higgs was not one unified idea either. It is also important to understand that it is nt fully confirmed yet, and could turn out to be another particle.

But very cool regardless. Let's hope it does something cool other than make bombs or cave in space-time should they find a use for it.
1173  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: Quantum Coniousness and Campbell on: April 25, 2011, 11:42:16
The line of thinking he is employing here is similar to what modern neuroscientistics and philosophers of mind mean when they speak about proto-conscious properties, espectially in context of theories like Protopsyschism. The idea is that conscious experiences emerge as formed entities from a sort of background sea of unconscious thought and feeling fragments. These fragments exist in massive volume, but they need to be organized and rendered coherent in order to make straight-forward thoughts and experiences of the type people enjoy. So in this line of thought, many simpler animals can be host to a handful or these proto-conscious thought-fragments, but it is only in the more organized and clomplex creatures that these take on an individual identity as a conscious entity.

Our own subconscious minds are the collectives of all of our proto-conscious fragments, existing as a torrential pile of unguided feelings, according to this theory.
1174  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Members' Artwork on: April 25, 2011, 05:13:05
These are good images, Bedeekin. I am sort of at a loss, since with the second image, the color texture and the lighting has the quality of a very good oil painting, but without any brush-strokes. The gradations, on the other hand, feel computer rendered; for that reason, it seems like they were partially generated by computer. What programs and techniques/media did you use?

The second in particular is extremely vivid and imaginative, and has very developed use of color and light. It looks like it possibly took weeks.
1175  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: The Fate of Frank Kepple on: April 24, 2011, 21:41:03
I don't know if anyone is going to find Frank by now, lol.

This is literally like the great mystey of Astralpulse, it has been going on and discussed for years and years, like who stole the Klopman diamond or something. It started back up in earnest when Xanth published his posts, and more people got to know who he was, but I don't see this ever getting resolved.

I think it comes down to either he can't be found, or he doesn't want to be found.
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