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1151  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Earthquake on: August 25, 2011, 04:03:42
That is cool PR, did not know you were so close; I am moving to Charlottesville soon. We should have a few brews... or a few tastes, or licks, or whatever the kids are doing these days.

Off topic but, heard of that hurricane heading towards New York?

Yeah, I am in Hampton, Virginia, and it looks like it will hit somewhere between northern North Carolina (lol) and Philadelphia. Hampton is halfway between, right on the beach, and will catch the eye regardless of where it hits... they are talking about 10- foot tidal-waves for miles inland, and 140 MPH winds; looks like we are slated for destruction. The above move I mentioned could not come too soon, lol; the move may end up being be my evacuation plan. Shiva has come to my door at last.
1152  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Illuminati? on: August 16, 2011, 06:51:51
Yeah, that makes sense to me Stookie... especially considering how much the depcited invader's tactics resemble carrier-warfare.

It would be funny to see a movie where an alien race arrived, and brought on a golden age of human growth; it would be so anticlimatic compared to the war-flicks in people's eyes... so much so that when a story starts out that seems to be leading in that direction, the only way to save face is to paint the aliens as grand decievers, and start the real shooting action.

1153  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Illuminati? on: August 15, 2011, 07:11:08
Yes, Hollywood appears to have developed an OCD on alien invasion movies lately.  I mean I know they made a lot in the 50s and 60s, but lately they've gone crazy with it.  Another one coming out this December.

LOL. An interstellar race is coming to get us... to steal... our electricity. That is laugably inane, and even more so for how seriously the trailer takes itself.

I do agree though that a rather large number of alien-invasion fictions and documentaries have been made in the last 3 years, too many to recall, even. I remember at least three separate specials dealing with likely possible responses to alien invasion on discovery, history channel, and some other network. And the glut of terrible Hollywood flicks like that one... I am not for conspiracy stuff at all, but if there were some vehicle of social conditioning, these numberless alien-scarems would stand out in bold contrast.

1154  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Have anyone tried OBE with DMT? on: August 13, 2011, 05:53:37
Yeah thats probably because they were never taught that hallucinogens are supposed to be used as medicine.  A way to examine yourself spiritually and mentally.  Kids these days have no idea of the proper way to do "drugs".  They always use them recreationally. 

Research people that use them to explore their own consciousness as medicine,  like shamans or scientists. 

Yeah, astralp, I was definitely not saying kids who use this substance or that will turn out to be losers, but rather just pointing out that it is not the fast track cheat-sheet path to being a balanced individual. With certain hallucinogens especially, I think there are opportunties for responsible users to glean insights; but then it is not like Timothy Leary would have you believe... you can't hand out LSD in the streets and hope to bring about a society full of cultured bodhisattvas.
1155  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Your opinion on Nibiru, Zeta's and their message? on: August 13, 2011, 05:47:42
I remember Zetatalk and Nancy Lieder especially, since a friend showed it to me and I read a bit of it in 1999 or so. The thing about Nancy, is that she is one of those that make 20-odd predictions- she makes a new one to replace the old one that passed, and the new one is always soon; I can't take it seriously, if on nothing else beyond her track record.
1156  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: ABC Nightline's "Beyone Belief" OBE"s review on: August 04, 2011, 07:08:26
Yeah, for some reason, I think our culture is FAR more prepared to accept the idea of NDE than it can ever be to accept the idea of induced OBE; I think there are several reasons for that.

The first may be that NDE happen spontaneously, without any help from the person, whereas most OBE require "spooky" mystical, fringe techniques to induce. NDE also tend to play into the Abrahamic mythos that dominates most of our culture, since many people see scenes and events from those cultural myths played out. Diametrically opposed to this, yet still relavent, is also the idea that since NDE happen at a time of possible imminent death (obviously, haha  cheesy ) they are easier for materialist-types to write off as wacky brain chemistry firing all kinds of crazy.

When you start talking OBE to many people, the New Age filter is the lens that they see things through, and they can only half-hear you over "The Age of Aquarius" playing in their head.

So yeah... what we do is too fringe-seeming for cultural prejudices to get past.
1157  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: This is quite an interesting video... on: August 01, 2011, 22:47:01
Yeah... so do I.

It was a middle-aged man, with an astonished expression and demeanor, showing us video footage of a Lens-flare, and then going to rather unremarkable-looking EM spectrum shots of the Sun from SOHO, and saying, "WHAT... ARE.... THEY.... HIDING FROM US!!!?Huh" I have no idea what was supposed to count as evidence in all of that... I wish you could see it too, so you would not be intrigued, haha; anything you could imagine it would have been would be more interesting than the actual video, I am afraid.
1158  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 29, 2011, 18:25:16
Don't apologize. The first post introduced a lot of ideas, and many of them were somewhat controversial. There were a lot of jumping off points, and new on-topic points are being introducted constantly (and I sort of like it when my topics go sideways and derail, since it shows the relationship between certain ideas, and feeds dialectic discussion- there need to be alternative viewpoints bombarding you, or people just become complacent in their own views and don't question or develop them).
1159  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Have anyone tried OBE with DMT? on: July 29, 2011, 17:24:54
Haha, reality samich.
1160  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 29, 2011, 03:04:50
I can. Income and property tax. Pure tyranny

Property taxes are indeed out of hand. It is difficult to argue against income taxes though; the government does need revenue afterall, to carry out all the programs that are necessary for the safety and productivity of society. I am far from saying everything the government does makes sense, is cost effective, or is necessary. But very much of what it does IS necessary, and it needs funding to do that. But then if you were against income taxes, why would it not be a big deal to you that corporate interests are lobbying to fill their prisons, which will be funded with tax money?

The prison system problem could have been solved overnight had the Democrat controlled House, Senate and White House simply legalized marijuana...

... but they didn't.

They didn't even try.

Yeah, the whole "war on drugs" thing is rather silly. The government should stay away from controlling substances which do not pose a danger to society if used moderately, and whose very prohibition directly generates other, far more serious crimes. Your argument there makes undeniable sense to me.
1161  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 29, 2011, 01:17:13

Here's the first one, it didn't take me long.
Although I'm sure you'll argue that NPR is not a credible source, even though it 'names names'.  Whatever, what you believe is not my concern.
Here are more excerpts from various sources:
"SB 1070 was drafted with help from the American Legislative Exchange Council, which helps the private sector write legislation for states. CCA, which is slated to receive $74 million for immigration detention centers in the 2010 fiscal year, helps fund the group.

CCA also has close, direct ties with Arizona lawmakers. Gov. Jan Brewer’s deputy chief of staff formerly worked as a lobbyist for CCA — his wife still works as a lobbyist there — and Brewer’s campaign chairman runs a lobbying firm that represents the prison corporation."

"As for Arizona Governor Jan Brewer, who signed the bill into law on April 23, her spokesman, Paul Senseman, and her campaign manager, Chuck Coughlin, are both former lobbyists for private prison companies."

Sure, it's a coicidence.  I mean, why would anyone think that a private corporations group actually care for their own profits over anyone else's rights?

I have to agree, CFT. The primary problem is clear to see: when private companies are running the prisons, you now have corporate groups which have a vested interest in having as many people in their prison system, for as long as possible. I think it should be obvious why that is a conflict of interests. You now motivate companies to lobby for unecessarily harsh and lengthy punishments. I could not think of many things more costly and detrimental to society as a whole, and to the rights of individuals.
1162  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 28, 2011, 07:12:24
If there are no consequences what is to stop others from committing the same crimes?

The best way to deter people from commiting crimes is to instill in them a disgust for causing harm at all. If rather than being attracted to carrying out violent acts, people were repulsed at the very thought, then you have far less to worry about.  Don't merely prevent through fear- that is weak.

Although I don't agree with Kongzi (Confucious) on everything, I think he is very wise about this point: he said something along the lines that if you need laws to guide the behavior of your citizens, in the most dire sense, you have already lost the fight. An honor-worthy society teaches its citizens to love and aspire to virtue; if you need to resort to law for control, you have already let animal motives run wild, and you have far more to worry about than what to prohibit- you will have a society of murders and thieves only kept in temporary check for as long as law can maintain it.

From another angle, I think it is also worth noting that punishments have proven to be ineffective deterrants to violent action. States with a death penalty don't generally have lower rates of violent crime. I think that it should be clear why that is- violent offenders don't operate on the principles of logic- the consequences that they will visit onto themselves are not relavent to them; and not caring about future consequences is one of the universal signs of mental illness, which violent offenders have been so often identified with. I think we need to understand that people who commit terrible acts are quite often lacking of some common decent quality. Merely condemning them I think is a lazy approach; I think it is braver to pity them, and give them a path for bettering themselves.
1163  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 27, 2011, 22:54:34
I really don't care what his mental state is or will be. He took peoples lives, he should face consequences for that.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I guess what my thesis here is saying is that the fundamental concept of punishment and consequences in general may be at fault.

What is your argument for why there should be consequences? I mean that sincerely.

1164  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 27, 2011, 22:16:08
Don't get me wrong, I think it is entirely possible that he may never develop far enough to be safe in public. But I think it is meaningless to make that judgement now.

I do think, as was said, that to suggest that some iron edict be laid now and forever that he shall never at any time be released is an emotional reaction. I think every case is circumstantial, and that people are capable of change over time. He may be a different person in 15 years, or maybe he won't be. I think at every moment in the game you can look the situation and make a judgement that is relavent to that time, and reflects his mental state then.

I don't see this as an issue of pacifism though; it is more about developing a society where law seeks the best interests of all people involved, and supports those who need support, and protects the safety of all, regardless of their condition.
1165  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 27, 2011, 21:02:51
I agree that a superior society acts out of logic instead of emotion/vengeance towards its criminals. However, logic dictates that a government place the protection of the society above the quality of life of a criminal. Determinism really makes no difference here... criminals will be criminals, law enforcement will be law enforcement. Stiff consequences are as much about safety for the majority as it is punishment for the criminal. Eliminating the latter should not effect a proper legal/prison system. I think the guy should be kept away from society for longer than 21 years... more like the rest of his natural life. How he's handled during that period is another matter.

In the article they mentioned that under the Norwegian system they run screenings, and it is possible to extend the sentence of a person longer than the 21 years by 4-year increments if the person is still deemed to be a threat to society.

I assume from how it is descibed that there are careful psychological screenings to evaluate whether the individual is likely to commit further acts of violence, and that release is contingent on passing these screenings.

I don't think it is a question of needing a longer sentence in this case or any case, I think it is a question of treating and analyzing the individual in a conscientious enough manner that it can be determined when the person has grown past the original state they were in at the time of the crime. I think if the course of therapy is dedicated enough, it would take far less than 20 years.

Thus his release to me would depend not so much on years, but on when he was deemed to have grasped the meaning of his actions, and was taught to approach his emotions in a less destructve manner, and when qualified screeners were able to determine he ran little risk of repeating similar behaviors.
1166  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Example of institution Norwegian gunman destined for exposes fallacy of Justice on: July 27, 2011, 19:16:36

When I first read of the story of the Norwegian tragedy, I think the most important thing for me in the whole article I read was the minor detail that if convicted, the gunman would face a maximum sentence of 21 years.

Let's step back a moment. If the same incident occurred in the US., with a single gunman bombing an executive government building, and murdering 100 children, an American Jury would be likely to vote to unanimously execute the individual. In fact, you can get a 20-year sentence merely for possessing enough marijuanna or other scheduled substance.

I was thinking this about a week ago, and about the implications of the approach of these two countries, and their mindsets; then today, I found this wonderful story. This story pleased me very much, in that classic "shock the bourgeoisie" line of humor that challenges middle-class value systems.:,0

The intent of the article is pretty clear- it seems targeted to generate a sense of "moral outrage" at the ammenities which are provided to the prisoners- jogging track in a park setting, pesonl trainers, flat-screen televisions in cell, encouragement to pursue creative activities and music, a recording studio for musicians, a rock-climbing wall, private bathrooms, etc.

I think what this article hammers home though, is the fact that the Norwegian legal system has lost faith in the idea of "justice".

In the US., it is believed that in order to provide a sense of "just fairness", it is necessary to visit the wrongdoings and sufferings criminals cause back onto themselves; people who cause harm should be harmed. Let's look at some of the realities, however. People who commit violent crimes, in nearly every case, fit into three categories: those who are mentally ill, those who were themselves victims of terrible acts in their childhood, and those called by poverty or socially traumatic environments into a mindset that one must steal or fight in order to make it in their situation.

The first set is curious in a way, since our legal system is lenient on the mentally ill, understanding that if a person is not in full control of their faculties, they cannot be counted on to act in a way that makes sense from our view of reality; oddly enough, however, I think our system tends to ignore this mitigating circumstance in violent crimes, and punishes people for merely being mentally ill. Likewise, I think our system tends to ignore the violent past many of these people have, that helps to shape them into becoming the person who commited the crime. And finally, not only does our mindset not make allowance for the fact that some feel forced into the lifestyle by circumstances they can't control, it is actually considered an aggravating factor to commit an act in a gang setting, when the reality is that gang members view their peers as their final social support group.

Going further, let's see what the fruits of this system of punishments is: rather than being counseled and treated for mental conditions, and helped to address their problems and deal with them internally, our system in the US. produces people who have been forced to live in a dangerous and hostile environment for decades, suffering rape and being forced to participate in racial-violence, and learning that the only way for them to be safe on a day-to-day basis is to show violent aggression to any who would challenge them. We take traumatized criminals who have committed violent acts in society, and we place them in a hyper-traumatic, hyper-violent environment for countless years, and then marvel that they come out even more violent and desperate.

And the premise that all of this is built on is the idea that people are responsible for their actions- we feel it is just to punish someone for doing ill if they had the ability to make another choice, and still chose to do wrong. But then, are we entirely sure people are even making choices, and are capable of more than one action in any situation? The prevailing scientific paradigm is materialism, and materialism overwhelmingly implies philosophical determinism. If determinism is true, then no one is truly "responsible" for anything they ever do, good or bad. They did not make the choice to act in the way they did- the universe and the conditions and physical laws governing them produced the outcome, not any illusion of choice a person made. So there is clearly a cognitive dissonance in what we believe about the universe (scientific materialism, which implies determinism), and what we think about people and their actions (that people are responsible for what they do and think, even though determinism would forbid this).

So if all of this is true so far, we have a legal system which visits vengence upon criminals, and for actions they may not even be technically responsible for according to our science, and which produces individuals who are rendered even more dangerous to society by their sufferings. Rather than allow them to explore their mental issues, and to work through their problems and become stable individuals who are far less likely to commit desperate acts of harm against others, we allow quasi-religious fallacies about "justice" to prevent us from doing what is best for the criminals and the society they must later interact with.

So oddly enough, rather than being morally outraged about the treatment the Norwegian gunman may receive, I would go so far as to say it is the laudable example of a superior society of people who have had the mental discipline to see through ideas like social vengence, and the foolishness of the idea of punishment, and to take the course of action which rather than vicitimize criminals themselves, is able to see them as victims of their own past and situation, and to help they become greater than they were.
1167  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: Theory - We are one with everything on an Atomic level.[not correct] on: July 25, 2011, 19:03:26
Honestly, I doubt science will ever explain anything like this.  We'll need to move beyond science eventually.

Whatever that next step is, who knows.  lol

I don't think it is a question of moving beyond science- it is not that the answers live in some magical realm not accessible to scientific discourse; I think it is more a question of gradually broadening science to encompass these new areas in its consideration.

Scientists practicing today are definitely acting under confirmation bias towards materialist answers, and are committing the unscientific error of looking for positive reinforcement, while ignoring the possibility of the cases that disprove materialism as a direct answer; but it is not a flaw with science per se, but rather those who practice science today; they can be prey to accidental dogmas and presumptions, and artificially constrict the set of what is discussed, but the flaw lies in humans, not in the concept of science.

But I think maybe that is what you mean, in a more literal sense- you feel it is time to move beyond conventional assumptions, I am guessing.
1168  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Have anyone tried OBE with DMT? on: July 23, 2011, 21:50:22
So did I.

dot dot dot

1169  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Have anyone tried OBE with DMT? on: July 23, 2011, 11:41:38
I just today watched a fascinating youtube video named The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock. He speaks of DMT and Pineal Gland in a very informative way. He has truly put a lifes research into this subject. A must see for all the great science minds of this site. The presentation goes into Astral Travel as well. The presentation has 10 nine minute plus parts to it. He is also about to release a brand new video on youtube named Convergence sometime this month.

You have to be really careful with people like Wilcock. He throws pretty much everything out there at once into the hall, free-for-all fashion; he also has a very bad habit of presenting suppositions and leaps of faith as facts. I am not saying some of the things he says are not true, but I think it is damn-near impossible that everything he says at once could be possibly all be true; therefore, every element of what he says must be suspect, and so I would only use him as a source of awareness of ideas, not support of any idea.
1170  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Has anyone seen this shadow creature too ? (i made a painting) on: July 22, 2011, 21:25:37
Literally, it could have been just about anything.

Haha, yeah, this.


Going a little further though, seeing "shadow people" seems to be a common thing in communities like this. I myself have never seen them, but I feel like I must have read something on the order of 50 instances of such accounts over the years. Usually when this topic comes up, there are like 5 other people saying... "Yeah, I saw those guys too! No idea what they are"...

If I had to lend a guess, I would maybe say that they are an archetype buried in our genetically shared subconscious; they may represent some deep-seated fear, which in a state of OBE or similar can gain personification.
1171  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Have anyone tried OBE with DMT? on: July 22, 2011, 21:18:38
From my research, people seem to get a lot more out of Ayahuasca than smoked DMT.

I also have found that seems to be the case.

Which is part of why I suggest that if you are someone who wants to get involved with that stuff, and accept the risks, you do it within the context of one of the South American traditions, and their offshoots; they know the territory, and have a better idea about precautions and safety than random folk on the street, since they have codefied their techniques over centuries.
1172  2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Welcome to 2012 and The Transition of the Ages / Re: Mars plus 2012-2013 on: July 21, 2011, 22:33:46
That is a rather remarkable lecture session.

I have seen enough of remote viewing to know that it seems to produce verfiable results in many cases, by who-knows-what mechanism.

I am genuinely intrigued to see followups on this series of trials, and explorations into what the structures might be.

The idea that humans from earth might even now be on mars... that is a notion with impact.
1173  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Have anyone tried OBE with DMT? on: July 21, 2011, 11:06:02
Call it a "drug" or whatever you want, we release a certain amount of DMT every day of our lives during sleep.

But calling it a substance endogenous to the human body does nothing to alter the claim that it is unsafe under some conditions.

We all have reasonable amounts of adrenaline from time to time, but a not-so-very-large injection of it will give you a heart attack.

The same with acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters... flooding them into the body may create temporary catatonic states or worse.

So to say that DMT is released naturally does not really say much in this context.
1174  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP and shamanic journey on: July 19, 2011, 15:18:27
As someone who is starting this type of pathworking, I think that they are generally similar to what can be considered the planes- I think for example, that Middle Earth is the Real Time Zone and the lower and upper worlds are regions in the astral

Middle Earth... Middle Earth... you mean... where these guys live...?

Sorry, carry on!
1175  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: China passed law forbidding the Dalai Lama from reincarnating on: July 19, 2011, 15:10:25
It is hard to say. The Chinese are on a decisive economic upswing, and are biding their time well, waiting for the proper time to come into full influence reflective of their material and martial strength.

On the other hand, the future of the Chinese government is uncertain. Great sentiments for change have been coming from the the people for decades now. No one is satisfied with the iron rule that has been the example of late. I think as China rises, there will in parallel be a massive social revolution, similar in scope to the one Maozedong led that brought the Communist party into power. Let's hope for the sake of the Chinese people and the people who will feel China's influence that it is a change for the better.
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