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151  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: Polaris Interviews Robert Bruce on: October 28, 2014, 03:51:04
I also share this opinion on Bruce. Stand-up guy, has done great things for people in the awareness area.

But he scares the pollen out of people's buttercups, and needlessly. I have never found projection realities to be the war zone he has experienced. I really feel he may have started out looking for that unfortuneately.

I am an agnostic on energy bodies, and can't really comment on the emphasis he puts on these concepts (although I fully believe practices that developed around these concepts are still incredibly useful, perhaps for different reasons).

Also, welcome back, KR!
152  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: Spiritual Messages in Popular Music on: October 28, 2014, 03:44:36
I think the others have expressed it well- there are some artists that merely make shallow references to "spiritualist" practices, but don't go deep into it. (Type 1)

There are others whom I would say are are writing about explicitly spiritual concepts, while using the well known language. (Type 2)

Then there are others that make no mention of language attached to spirtualism, but that elevate common subjects to the level of the spirit (Type 3)- this is the most skillfull of the approaches I feel, but the others are not bad in their approach, or less meaningful.

Some examples, by type:

Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros- Dear Believer
(Type 2)

Pure Bathing Culture- Ivory shore
(Type 3)

And here she does it more explicitly in type 2:

Pure Bathing Culture- Silver Shore's Lake
(Type 2)

Springsteen is a master of elevating mundane scenes of Americana into spiritual sacraments. Some sort of Greek Poet that managed to get lost and to be born In Jersey  cheesy

Bruce Springsteen- I'm on Fire
(Type 3)

Hell, even as a cover, here by Natasha Khan, this simple song about longing is drenched with spiritual force.

Bat for Lashes- I'm on Fire
(Type 3)

Tv on the Radio- I was a Lover
(Type 2)

Kate Bush... is some sort of demigod... at least she is something more than merely human. Every one of her 300 or so songs is intensely spiritual, literally irrespective of the subject. She is the original female pop-star (the pre-madonna primadonna, hehe), and oddly one that is only known in musical circles now. So I will here unload a small pile, lol.

Kate Bush- An Architect's Dream
(Type 2)

Kate Bush- Hounds of Love
(Type 3)

Kate Bush- Suspended in Gaffa
(Type 2)

I always liked this album cover... the world flows out from beneath her skirt. Such a powerful image on so many levels.

Kate Bush- Delius (Song of Summer
(Type 3)

Kate Bush- Alchemy
(Type 2)

If you like these few artists, I can give you many more, if you are looking for it! Music goes very deep for me.
153  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 28, 2014, 02:16:11
I understand why you don't want to post much of the information as to how you got to where you are. I look back at my past and see how all these little steps lead to where I am now. Taking shortcuts would mean to lack the context of understanding.

Yeah, I think you get it. An actual theoretical process for engaging this experience from zero doesn't exist probably. Rushing to the method itself would probably have almost no effect at all for a person who wasn't already ready; those at risk would probably be those who could get there, but who might have difficulty detaching themselves from the joy of it all.

For me at least, it likely had heavily to do with life experiences, attitudes, bodily health, a storing of several kinds of tensions that were released all at once, and a powerful love for the physical world, its inhabitants, and the underlying sensuality of our existence here. I don't expect you can get there in a day. But you might be able to get there in 3 months, and I think this is an easier path potentially to subtle realities than the projection path that is mostly followed here.

There is definitely that Jungian "Metanoia" trait to this all.

Is there any advice you can give me to point me in the right direction?

Advice I could give for getting into that primed state... would sound off the wall probably.

You would be asking yourself... is this a New Age manifesto?

When I read a lot of literature about chakras, etc... (leaving my views on what these may or may not be asside), it is clear to me that I didn't fully get most of it until now, despite having felt many "chakra sensations" in the past. This is sort of the attitude you would have to look at this stuff with... you won't get it until you are already there. That sounds like a cop-out, but so much of this happens by accident...

Ok here it goes:

-Listen to music, and don't listen to the singer, but imagine you are the singer. Feel the person's emotions, feel the joy and the suffering behind what they sing, and feel it in your body as powerful waves. You must do this with no distractions at all, with meditative focus. You and they are the same, and you are sharing their life experiences that they are expressing. I don't mean this figuratively, I mean it literally. That might be hard to do, but it will help get you to this place relatively fast. The point is empathy, and empathy is both developed and experienced by having yourself experience what the other person or creature is feeling in the most direct way possible. By an accident of biology, humans are designed to experience empathy through voices (and consequently musical intervals) most easily. If you question it... consider, what is more emotional, a text chat or a phone conversation?

-When you walk outside, you must stop your thoughts completely almost. There are trees, and wind, and clouds, and sky. They are magnificent things, and they envelop you and intoxicate you with their primal physicality if you invite them in.

-Change your relationship with your sexuality. Most people feel sexuality toward human adults, and sexual mental images, and this is very healthy and not at all detrimental. But there is a new way to experience this sexual energy... try experiencing it instead as bodily sensuality. Let this energy that is normally only felt for objects of sexual desire instead be transduced into feelings of joy at being immersed in the natural world, and a joy that you feel in your nerves and skin. If you can learn to experience the joy of seeing trees and clouds as a bodily excitement, this is another major step.

-Another extension of this is the transduction of sexual energy into love and compassion. Just as you can direct it into sensual joy for the physical world, that overflowing kind of energy can be re-directed into a kind of warmth you feel for others, and you badly want what is best for all other people and creatures at all times.

-Another strange way of building this vital force is athletic pursuit. For me, I think a kind of physical vitality and liveliness I developed as a result of running everyday for an hour. Remember I am a person who is highly sensual, so you can imagine how much energy and tension is built up in such a situation.

-Meditative pursuits- if you haven't already gotten there, learn the feeling of staying in trance for 2-3 hours, and being contented there. The above will help with this, and this will especially help with the above, conversely. Feel the joy of breathing in, and the joy of tension leaving your body as you exhale. This state is so relaxing and rewarding to experience on its own, you can comfortably spend hours in it, and it feels like time well-spent if you do it "correctly".

-Set your sights to the apex. You love yourself for what you are, but you constantly strive to become better, for the love of both yourself, and for those around you you can better love and serve. You do not accept failure or set-back- you defy them, and keep climbing. You know that every being has worth and value, and as such a being, you have an unquenchable longing to know the infinite and the creator, whatever that turns out to be for you, in your world view. You are a Christian? Then you can easily know this as Christ/ Father/Holy Spirit. Contemporary Spiritualist? Source. Hindu? Krishna / Brahman-Atman. Modern Secular-Humanist? The loving spirit of ethics and the grandeur of physical creation. It doesn't matter what you ascribe to, pretty much each worldview has a name for it, and you don't need to be a religious person to experience it, or to develop a deeper relationship with it.


I am comfortable sharing this much, and if you take that stuff to heart, you might find your way to where I wandered by sheer accident. Also, some of it might seem like quackery, or some breed of queer mysticism. I am not sure if I saw such a list of things as a child, if I would have given it much value other than some sort of zealous fanaticism. And yet I feel there is great transformative power in all of this if you are open to it. In the future I will expound on principles like these and others, and explain more closely how they fit into the whole; and I will also describe the physical exercises that may be relevant, if I am convinced it is the best way to serve people on this path; probably all as some sort of free ebook, but that is for well into the future.

I hope that helps!!!
154  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 28, 2014, 01:01:50
Man I would really read that stuff on Daoism if you write it here.
I'd even read the stuff on Buddhism!

When I get the chance around work and research (and still feeling a bit strange), I will definitely try to do these instances justice.

For now Kzaal... with respect to the Daoist perspective on it, look into the concept of the "Microcosmic Orbit"; this happened to be the route a lot of the sensations took before they branched off- a circuit up the back and down the torso on a centerline loop; and the posture she is taking was pretty accurate for the effect on the spinal posture it had in my case too (although laying down of course). There is a whole branch of Daoist literature I am seeing that is concerned with converting "Jing" (sexual force) sourced as "Yin" (female creative essence) into spinal "Qi" (spiritual essence); the normal pattern for both women and men in Daoism is Jing expulsion; the Daoists believe that this other process is the root of powerful transformative forces in an individual, and I have run into experiences being described that sound very much like those being discussed in this thread in that context.

155  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Projector begins to doubt if projection is really real. on: October 27, 2014, 08:12:20
Hi Fourth,

I am trying to get a full grasp of the argument you are making here, so just bear with me a moment.

You are saying that you feel body sensations, and associate these body sensations with projection; you reason that because there are so many sensations in the body, that projection must be a bodily phenomenon, rather than an exit of a spirit or essence from a body into another reality.

Is this a good summary of the argument?
156  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 27, 2014, 02:42:13
Stillwater, if you research and find info. on similar experiences had by people of other cultures etc., I'd be very interested!!  Smiley

For sure!

So far I am seeing instances of things that sound similar in Catholocism, Daoism, Qigong, the Upanishads (granted, literally everything under the sun happens in the Upanishads to the yogis, which isn't necessarily a disqualifier though), and in a few Native American tribes, even. It really sounds like this is a universal part of the human experience, and maybe even something that was "normal" in some cultures past. I am gathering a huge pile of charts and models in these texts that describe parts of what I went through amazingly closely. I am pursuing this phenomenon through reading in all of my free hours- many things that I read in the past, but now see with fresh eyes, and much that is new to me. I will expound on these accounts when I have a free moment soon!

I think gathering more information on this is great- if I am going to explain exactly how I think this miraculous gift can be reached out to though, I want to take some time to let it digest first. So far I am coping fairly well I think, thankfully. Maybe 2 months from now I may let it happen again slowly, if all feels right. It feels like a month has passed already, but it has been much less.

It seems to me like an entirely new branch of spirituality I have never heard professed here, which is odd, because in many of these cases, it seems like the swiftest passage to interacting with the pure loving state of the greater realities, and experiencing other states of being, as many here strive to. A person's sincere desire for such union may be a factor in its occurrence. I am finding the original Buddhist Tantric sects have very similar views to this- they believe that through loving expression of the joy of the sensual world of physicality, a person can be filled with so much love and compassion that they achieve the Buddhist concept of Enlightenment. Whether you believe in enlightenment or not (I am not sure I do), it is worth noting that there is this ancient practice the focuses intensely on the body and the physical world, rather than looking at it as an encumberance, as most of the others do!

157  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Sexual Dream about a Deiety on: October 25, 2014, 21:48:30
What did you take away from it? What has the experience told you, you think?

Clearly there must be significance for you if you shared it- there must be an emotional dimension there?

The vibration stuff is pretty common even in a projection environment... I always felt it was a pulsing nerve effect.

The sexual content sounds pretty normal, and doesn't sound particularly unhealthy. I don't get a lot of that stuff, but it is well within the pail for what people sometimes experience. You sort of tend to encounter the things your mind is filled with, so if there are those tensions there, dream and projection environments will definitely play a stage to them.
158  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Trying not to label this... on: October 25, 2014, 05:21:06
Haha... a good set of emotions to experience, especially in that order  cheesy
159  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Trying not to label this... on: October 25, 2014, 05:10:34
I think you have it right in the title. A projection is a projection. It doesn't matter if it was a lucid dream to start, or some other state. They are not different places or realms. The only thing that really differs is how aware you are. In projection type experiences you have a pretty high awareness, and can often bring back the memories after the fact clearly. That is all "projection" means- that you were in an aware state experiencing reality somewhere out of your normal physical surroundings. Note that this doesn't mean that projections happen outside of you, though.

People get hung up on whether they got there through a conscious exit, or a conscious attempt that found them unconscious through the transition. None of that matters really for anything but needless prestige. If you can get there every night through your method, or as often as you like, then you have as great a skill as anyone at it.
160  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 25, 2014, 04:24:21
I've always been interested in hearing about those people who seem to have a direct line whenever they want as opposed to people like me who seem to still be on an 'invitation only' basis.  I wonder if your technique would allow you anytime access.  By the sound of it, we won't be finding out anytime soon! lol  You are taking a break and I'm sure have good reason to. Smiley

I gather it might allow "sometimes" access, lol. Maybe once every season. It was such an intensely moving, deeply personal, and especially a draining experience that I can't see having the preparation, mental state, physical and mental stamina, and the occasion to experience it more than very infrequently. Not to mention that the results are long lasting and intense. It changes your body physically, and it changes your viewpoints. You are both sublimely satiated, and yet paradoxically filled with longing. I can't see having an experience that profound every month... I would lose it. I am just now starting to be able to interface with the world with full mental control again.

Also, it wasn't just a case of flipping a switch... it was something that happened mostly accidently, and that I gather relied on me being ready and prepared, and having the right pre-requisite life experiences to deal with.

If I can show people how to interface with creation like I did in that wonderful moment, it definitely can't be explained in 20 steps. 100 pages might do it. It would need to be a primer full of all of the ideas, mental states, and understandings a person needs to interface with it. I don't think I could explain them with anything less than stories and personal examples, and pre-requisite exercises to learn the concepts. Some of it, our society is extremely antagonistic toward, and there are even parts of it that spiritual traditions are very resistant or dismissive toward. Very few spiritual traditions embrace the body and sensuality in a healthy way; usually the goal is to transcend the body, and to thereby interface with sacred realities. I think it may be surprising to people, even in a spiritualist hotspot like this, that paradoxically engaging directly with the body and embracing it with loving acceptance (maybe even something beyond acceptance... like celebration) can lead to these same sacred encounters just as surely. People really need to understand that our bodies are an incredible gift, not this stupid matter that is stopping us from interacting with spirit. If anything, I think bodies can teach us to interact with spirit in wonderful ways that can only happen here. Most people in places like this understand the "live in the now, engage with the present moment" concept. That means loving this material world and our beautiful forms for all of their greatness while we are here.

If I am able to return there in the not-so immediate future, I must go many times in order to learn more about it. I would absolutely love to give people a guide to experiencing what we experienced, but I want assurance it is safe and manageable. I don't want to give people a wonderful thing that might also do them harm; the temptation to go far with it is very great after having been there once. As I pointed out in the thread, all of my nerves begged me to take them back. I think this temptation can overpower a person, and cause them to go too far too fast. I am not about to become a sky diving instructor while I am still on my first jump and haven't touched the ground yet.

I also want to spend time diving back into the Upanishads and other sacred traditions, and looking for examples of when this has happened, and what the results were. This is something more than a few people have experienced, clearly. There must be hundreds of examples of it that will let me get a deeper understanding.

When I learn more about it, I will fill people in! I can't not tell people after I have wound them up like this, and it feels like my responsibility to express it even. It is just that I have an infant understanding of it all at this point.

'feeling at one with all' afterglow

Yeah, afterglow is right! It is really something else.

St. John of the Cross describes his experiences somewhere- I forgot where now, but he described the progression of them as at first intermittent, and then he eventually got to the point where the experience was always with him.  I'm sure not at the level we had it -no one could survive that -but it was more of slow steady burn - a flame that would never be extinguished.  Something to work toward!

I could see the effects of it staying around a long time, and in that way it would always be with me. There is a lingering aftershock that hits every now and then like a gentle whisper- and it goes beyond just feeling good- it reminds me of the love I have to show other people.

Of course the point of it all, as I'm sure we all know, is to share the love with others, and I think you are doing such a great service in sharing your story.  It is a natural law, I believe, that when someone has something to give, someone else will be ready to receive it.  I hope and pray many will be benefited by reading this thread! 

You guys are amazing, btw. It is beyond wonderful to me to come here, and not only be able to share this incredible experience, but to have incredibly supportive others around me who have been there themselves. Truly priceless!
161  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Felt the vibrations, is it normal that my heartbeat raises? on: October 25, 2014, 03:24:28
Few make it through residency without witnessing something along the paranormal lines. Hospitals are notorius on night shift for spiritual activity. Nothing like personal experience. I had an OBE when I had surgery and the anesthesiologist came in  and we had quite a talk about it. So don't discount them off the bat. I personally know a couple clinical psyc's who wanted to go into parapsychology but couldnt make a living at it. THey had to go into another field but are always itching for a chance to work with someone along those lines.

To an extent this is true. In fact, neuro-physicians-- a group that one would expect to be among the most closed-minded, strict materialists due to the hard-science aspect of their work, and the modern tendency to translate every emotion, mood, feeling, or human experience into just so many neurotransmitters firing or misfiring-- turn out to be some of the most very open to this metaphysical stuff; this is partially because they do end up having a catalogue of life experiences where they come in direct contact with it as you point out, and also because many of them are extremely interested in mind-body philosophy, and any good philosopher is never fully certain of their own positions to the extent they dismiss other view points. Doctors are also some of the most empathetic people around, and will engage their patient's beliefs even if they don't connect with them many times.

That said, doctors also live in two worlds. In the US, we have allopathic medical schools, and osteopathic; the major difference between them is that allopaths are taught strict medical establishment material about anatomy, pharmacology, and acute care, and make some of the best trauma doctors. Osteopaths are taught all of these areas and in addition receive extensive training on dietary science, psychology, belief systems and their power to affect changes on the adherents, and respecting alternative viewpoints. The sort of doctor one has is partially a result of which of these camps they belong to. It is also a result of professional pressures; doctors are under huge stress by their professional hierarchy to remain strict empiricists, and to use methods recognized by the scientific community to have acceptance. While doctors themselves may sometimes be open to metaphysics and philosophies outside of their comfort zone, they are under great pressure never to acknowledge them at the wrong time. It isn't surprising to me that many doctors have strong and justified interests in parapsychology, but unfortunately in North America parapsychology went out of vogue in the late 70s, and being associated with work like that can unfortunately be professionally damaging. You get labeled the "woo-woo" doctor, and serious peer-review journals (which are extremely political in who they allow to publish, thus controlling what research gets respect and attention) will black-list you from publishing your research.

Doctors are forced to bow to the whims of the scientific and medical establishment in this way if they are serious about their research futures, and for this reason sometimes will not be as open to metaphysics as they would otherwise be. But a general practitioner, rather than a specialist (who is concerned about their research future) will often engage with it comfortably with the patient.

This is nothing against doctors- they are amazing people. It is just recognizing the system they are caught up in.
162  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: Old member, British but moved to Ukraine on: October 25, 2014, 01:56:16
Ok, sorry to 4th for temporarily taking over his topic in advance.

We might sooner be seeing American tank treads in Ukraine.

Very possible. The US is every bit the imperialist power Russia was and still is.

Putin has done good things for his people on some level, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have interests of acquiring the Ukraine. In fact, recently the prime minister of Poland came out and said that Putin at one point discussed splitting the land that now makes up the Ukraine between their two countries.

Yes the Russians and the Chinese get jumped on for things the Americans feel are their birthright to do for some reason. That doesn't mean Russia isn't an imperialist power with intentions to acquire territory it sees as ripe for the picking. Kiev is a very Russian city, and at one point a Russian capital- the Russians on some level consider it theirs still, but times have changed.

Mostly I just want the people of that country to stay safe and un-manipulated by any outside power, be it the US or Russia, as I want for all people.
163  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Felt the vibrations, is it normal that my heartbeat raises? on: October 24, 2014, 17:54:34
Energy sensation can be very intense at times and it's very hard not to get spooked by them.  You have to understand that there is no danger from it.  If you have a concern and you want it addressed a physician can do some tests and possibly have a holter monitor for a diagnostic. So it's possible to have it checked out. If your concerned talk to the doc.   docs can be amazingly open minded about this sort of thing

I can attest... the first time I felt "heart chakra" sensations many years ago, it felt like a second heart beat that was 4 times the speed of my normal heart. Even knowing that is what it was, I was still concerned that there might be physical exertion that might be dangerous; but there never turned out to be as far as I can see.

As for the doctors part... it is all in how you phrase it, and what language you use. I don't think I would tell a doctor that, "I want to find out if I am feeling heart chakra sensations, or if I am having heart problems", but rather something more like, "I have been having strange sensations around my chest region- could you help check them out for me?".

First way, you turn off most doctors and trip the crazy switch. Second way, you phrase the exact same concern in a language they can relate to. Most good doctors will have a respect for their patients' beliefs, and understand that those beliefs can affect their bodies, and will not attack them for them; even so, it helps to use the right language just in case.
164  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: Old member, British but moved to Ukraine on: October 23, 2014, 20:13:23
Should you see Russian tank tread marks... kindly walk the other way for me.

Terrible that the old imperialisms haven't been outgrown.

Great to have you back!  wink
165  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 23, 2014, 01:44:22
In fact I didn't know anything about meditation.  I spent time in prayer often, and I had my daily quiet times -if I was meditating, I certainly didn't know it.  I just had an unquenchable desire to know God.  So in this way, I didn't open any channel through my own doing, but rather made myself available for God/Source to decide when it was 'my time' and he directed the whole thing. 

Oh I know the sort of prayer you are talking about. To me, that full devotional prayer is actually very powerful and focused meditation, and meditation itself can be devotional. I think you and I approach the same place from opposite ends of the pool. I have ended up at times practicing a very fervorous meditation, and it sounds as though you practiced a very meditative prayer.

I have asked myself many times now why it happened precisely now. I think when I am honest with myself, I think I have been overflowing for a fair time before this all. I had become so full of love for everything, and want badly to express it to everyone I see, but you can only share with others what they are open to, and no more. It is a burden even, to have so much. I needed some kind of outlet to share it all. Looking back, I think I must have offered myself to the universe in that way, and perhaps in that moment this was the eventual response. For now, I am still coming to terms with what I do next. Maybe the next step will be shown to me, or maybe it is up to me to figure it out, I am not sure. But I have even more energy now than I did before the event, and I must help it find an outlet.

166  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Building and or Creating Permanent things in The astral realms ? on: October 22, 2014, 20:55:22
Yep, hehe. Glad you were able to post and everything now- sometimes people have IP issues.

I feel almost tempted to move this topic to the "Astral Pulse Island" section, but I decided that was too evil  cheesy
167  Healing / Welcome to the Healing place! / Re: I need to dreamwalk on: October 22, 2014, 20:50:57
If he is not open to speaking about his problems, you have to communicate to him non-verbally. Do it with body language. Do it with things you do for him, and things you do with him. Show him how you feel rather than telling him. This is also much easier for women to do because it is more culturally accepted, so you already have an advantage there.

You can't have a full control of a person's actions, and you just have to accept that. That said, there are many ways to communicate!
168  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 22, 2014, 19:45:40
I was not aware of this. Do you remember where you heard this?

I think a lot of it is people expanding the concept with their own visuals and imagery in the Christian tradition, although the root concept of the force of God burning anything less with its radiance is expressed several times in the Bible itself:

And he said, You can not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exodus 33:20

In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. Isaiah 6

In the Isaiah verse, I have heard it stated that the Hebrew and Aramaic is more suggestive- that they are covering their faces to shield themselves. The implication is that here the highest rank of angels in the Judeo-christian tradition know better than to look at God.

I am not myself a Christian, as that is not how I interface with the world. That said, there are fantastic things to be found in that tradition if you know where to look. I was immersed in Catholocism for several years as an outsider; I found that although I could not accept most of the basic premises ( I knew that going in), that there was much a person could learn from it if they were open to it, just as I had previously learned from the east. Watch a nun pray the rosary in some random Italian hill town and you will see what I mean.

I think an important thing for people to understand is that this experience is not something that you need a church or guru or other religious leader for. This is a human experience. God however you understand him is for everyone. All people are meant for this not just gifted or special ones.

I whole-heartedly agree on each of these accounts. I think this experience may be a human birthright. It is over and above what many people ever get to experience, but I think the structure is there for any healthy person to experience it if they are led in the right directions. I don't feel like I am a special person for having experienced it (no more than everyone is special at least), but I count myself incredibly lucky.

I badly want to show others how to reach it too, but I know that I shouldn't until I have years of understanding it, before I even suggest how to engage with it. And even then... I want to be sure it is safe for people... I am not completely sure if it fully is at this point. Chasing it down Alice's cave seems like something I really have to take in measured amounts. I want to go far faster than I feel I should. Restraint seems like a virtue here unfortunately. If I am fully sane a couple years from now, I may consider putting the full concept into writing.
169  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 22, 2014, 04:27:51
At first it was only like a needle in the back for me. Made me feel quite uncomfortable.
Then a small knife, then a dagger, the more it went the more it felt uncomfortable.
The evolution took it's time and I didn't know what it was until I saw this post Stillwater.
Everyday it felt really weird going to sleep because I knew it was gonna happen again and again.
At first I was really scared. Then I understood that it wasn't damaging me. My attitude changed to a challenging one.
-Oh yeah you wanna stab me? Go ahead I ain't scared!
Then as soon as I fell asleep, it took another stab. One that felt so uncomfortable.
When I understood that I couldn't stop the contact that was gonna happen when I was about to sleep,
I started calming down and accept it was gonna happen again.
It did, almost every night when I was sleeping on my right side.
Then I understood it was a contact, but I didn't know what kind or anything.
The more it happened the stranger it felt and one day I started enjoying it, because to me it was a real manifestation.
When you finally change your attitude about it (for me I didn't know what it was so I took that as an aggression).
Then that manifestation will grow even stronger each time.
I felt it once going through from my back to my chest and my back just curved automatically backward.
It feels as if god went straight through you.
It's very ecstatic and a blissful experience.
It's as if every night when you go to sleep you die and you are reborn the next day.

I may have been really lucky my practice seemed to activate it when it did, because in my life now I had the sort of experiences to know what to do with energy like that. It sounds really new-agey, but I think part of it may have to do with understanding male and female means of dealing with overflowing force; the female method- transferring it to the rest of the body- felt like the only way to deal with it safely. Thinking about it now, it could have been really painful actually if I stood against it, rather than welcoming it in. I have heard for some people these "spinal flows" can be very painful; for me it overflowed into the rest of my body and may have been experienced in the very best way possible.
170  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 21, 2014, 07:10:13
I had control of this one. Anyone experiencing it should be passive. It will run away with you if you're not ready as I found out the first time.

In one sense, I was passive in allowing it to take me where it wanted, and in giving it an exit path through my body's ports by flowing with it. Perhaps this was also inviting it in a dangerous way. When I first felt it flooding in, I was very open to it. It hit violently, but I think the intensity it reached may have been a factor of a submission to it. I embraced the experience, and intrinsically told it I would go where it wanted to take me. Looking back, I am not sure if things would have been different had I not been open to it, but I suspect this open-ness allowed the energy to reach peaks of terrifyingly out of control intensity that might not otherwise have happened.

I am thankful that there was very little in what I would call a conventional understanding of pain. The pain of it was partially my nervous system being stressed beyond what its capacity can safely cope with (being overloaded), and the over-straining of muscles beyond what they could contract to, while still trying to contract more, combined with a fear of the violence of it (but this fear was overshadowed by the ecstasy).

The next time this happens, I think that I will still be open to it, but I will implore it to take its time. I can see that going with it where it wants to go full speed can possibly be ruinous.

And flames is right. The Christian concept that even a shadow of the experience of God will consume a person in flame for its brilliance is an apt description of all of this. 
171  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 20, 2014, 23:23:01
Finally somebody post about this! I had a similar experience back when I was still a catholic with no knowledge of metaphysics.. I had a very deep love and affection to Jesus Christ and then it just happen, everything becomes soo blissful.. It lasted for a few months and I lost it after I had a sexual contact.. I would never forget those times, the ecstatic, euphoric and blissful feeling.. I think this is the kind of feeling that the people experiences during higher spiritual dimension projection or near-death experience..

As I say, I feel obligated to talk about it. It seems like something I shouldn't keep to myself, especially in a place like this, where people have some background to understand it, or have even experienced it themselves. I would like many people to be aware that this is something real that they can easily experience, and that it can reshape their lives and perspectives powerfully. I know this after merely a week.

I want that bliss to return but it just couldn't happen since my eyes had been open to metaphysics I just couldn't love Jesus deeply no more.. My faith is just gone

I don't think creation or the creator cares what it is called. Just because you experienced that devotion in one name, doesn't mean you still can't have a very personal connection to it by the name you now know it by, or that you are knowing a different being! I think what you experienced then is still available to you now, if you are open to it!

How eloquently worded.

And thanks Szaxx! Something tells me you have been there before too.
172  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 20, 2014, 23:14:21
That's awesome, Stillwater!!    Catholics choose a favorite saint's name to add to their own name, and when I joined my church, I chose Teresa of Avilla.  I've always felt such a kinship with her because of our similar experiences.  My first was in my 20's and have continued every so often to the present.  Such a beautiful thing... that total union and intimacy with God.  So hard to live in the world after, but who would trade it?

Having spent a lot of time in a Catholic setting, I knew many Teresas... all incredibly uninhibited people, with powerful dedications to serving others, and some of them are lifelong friends.

I am wondering what their mothers knew at this point, haha.  cheesy
173  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 20, 2014, 23:09:36
Thank you for sharing that.

In a way I felt very obligated. It is something that is rarely discussed or experienced, but something I would want many people to be aware exists and is very real. I wish I could show others how to get there, if I didn't feel it could be so dangerous as well.

I would suggest taking it easy and allowing the effects to settle. You not done cooking yet and you need to be healed and adjusted to the energy before the next step can happen.

Yeah, for sure. Right now, every time I settle down into bed, my arms are telling me, "Hey! This is where it happened! Take us back there, won't you?". It is something my body longs to experience again, but I don't feel I should go back until I understand it more fully after a long stretch of time. It feels like too much too quickly, and getting burned feels a very real result of getting too far.

What you experienced is similar to what happened to me at initiation. About a month later I had this happen again and it continues.

It would be good of you to share anything you were comfortable with- what started it all for you, how it went down, and how you dealt with it in the long term. Did you ever put any of it into writing?

Don't try to push for the highs just relax and try to go with the flow you cannot force this. You still have to live in the physical which is why it's important to come fully back after the rush happens. I know I struggle with it. I have to be forced back and sometimes it's so difficult emotionally to leave that bliss.

Yes, that violently electrified place feels like a second home I have returned from somehow now. I get the impression that when I am ready to visit again, I should take it very slowly, and allow the feeling to develop at a much gentler pace. Going from intensity 5 to intensity 50 was too much too soon. It was sublimely exhilerating, but it seems unwise to repeat in the same way. It has already changed my experience of the physical world. My perspective had already been heavily altered by years of spiritual practice, and this has put me yet another huge rung up the ladder to being terribly out of sync with modern physical life. If you saw me, you might mistake me for a person overdosing on antidepressants. Normal people don't have a context for understanding a person in this state. I am unnaturally animated.

But what I have been told is that it's important to bring this energy this goodness to people who do not yet have it. Everyone is meant to experience this and those who discover this union can help those who are still wandering. The union is incomplete without the rest of humanity there with us. We cannot leave the others behind.

I feel this very strongly too. There is no way to share to any given person what that sort of experience is like. I was allowed to get a peek of a shadow of the infinite, and yet I am sworn to secrecy. The best I can do is to treat those around me with the greatest warmth and care I can muster at all times, without making them uncomfortable at my uninhibited expressiveness.

Thanks for sharing your perspective so far, Blue! There really isn't a handbook for this.
174  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, or how I came to experience Primal Union with Creation on: October 20, 2014, 07:51:16
I place this here, rather than in the Energy section because I don't frankly have a clue what an energy body is. That stuff is outside of my sphere.  )

Well, I can say now that I may have been visited by one of those peak experiences that defines the heights of what spirituality can offer to humanity, and I feel as though I have been given a glimpse of a sacred gift of the first order.

It happened by accident almost, but for the reader's benefit, and to explain what it was, and what context I have to understand it at all, I will preface with the famous story of Saint Teresa.

Teresa of Avila was a nun who practiced devotional mysticism. She spent much of her time in deep meditation contemplating her idea of divinity in the Catholic tradition that was known to her. The episode of her life for which she is most famous came during a time she fell ill, and during that time her devotional meditation brought her by chance an episode of supreme ecstasy which overcame her completely, which she understood as sexual union with the godhead.

"I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying."

Even as a child, I was captivated by that story, and especially by the overwhelmingly beautiful sculptural depiction of the event by Bernini. Such rapture! Her face is contorted into twisted torsions of joy, and her frame has collapsed from the weight of it as she convulses. Ever since learning of the story, I can say that the idea of such an overwhelming experience- to be visited as the lover of the divine- was one of the most compelling concepts I ever found in spiritual texts.

Not to mention, I have always admired how, even amongst the sexual repression of the Catholic Church, Bernini was able to tell the unabashedly immoderate story of how human sensuality is a gift for understanding and communing with the infinite! What a curiously surprising thing for nuns and school children to see enshrined in a Catholic Cathedral.


The next thing I will preface with is that I have always had great love for the Hindu Upanishads. They were my first experience of spirituality, and a powerful first introduction to meditation, trance, and altered states. I discovered them as a child, maybe only 12 or so. I delighted in the idea that there were these ideas and experiences that normal people never got an opportunity to experience, that you could unlock merely by understanding your body and gaining control of your mind. I took away from those experiences many great gifts even then: an overriding love for the world and all of its inhabitants, a wonderful stillness of mind that brought me both joy and the mindfullness to be in control of my own thoughts, and the concept that the body and sensuality are a gift that is the birthright of humanity.

I am not certain if I am just pre-disposed to be a sensual person, or if it is life experiences like that, but it is worth pointing out that sense experiences (paintings, music, literary imagery) can be extremely powerful for me. Very often music that resonates with me will send waves of feeling over my skin, and pulses through my spine.

So on to the experience itself.

I have for a little while been revisiting the exercises and techniques I recall from the Upanishads. I had decided that where I am now in my life, I have more perspective to understand them, and to apply what I learned then with what I know now. And that turned out to be miraculously true.

Many people here will be familiar with the Chakra system concept. I have my own views on what this system is, but I won't go into those here. Those familiar will know the concept that the base chakra is the root of the body's energy, which is heavily sensual in nature, and gets transduced into other forms. At least that is the Hindu understanding, and what many practitioners believe today. Suffice to say that the exercise I was following from memory dealt with this transduction.

Many people may also be familiar with the concept that the yogis will never explain their full techniques, or put them into writing, because they are believed to be incredibly dangerous for untrained eyes to find. I am also of this belief, and so I will not here publish the exact thing I was doing, for fear that others may find it at the wrong time on their path and do themselves harm; I am incredibly sorry to be such a tease with something this sublime, although those of you who want more details can discuss it via PM. I can say I am of the belief that with the right knowledge, likely any healthy and fit person can experience what I experienced then. But it would be irresponsible of me to post such things here.

Suffice to say, I was on my back, after having entered heavy trance, and was in the process that the yogi's understood to be the transferance of energy from the low center upward. My reasons for following these exercises was to explore the effects, and note the sensations from my current life perspective. Note... the sensations. These words proved very weak for what happened next. With very little warning, there was a sharp contraction in my abdomen, and a surge of sensation shot along my spine. These sensations repeated and quickly intensified. Soon I was arching my back, and massive waves of sensual feeling were surging through my limbs, neck, face, extremities... the motions were the semi-voluntary means to flow with the feeling, but they soon became near involuntary. My entire form was wracked with force of such great intensity it filled every nerve with hyper-peak excitement, and it was impossible not to gasp and vocalize very strongly with the overwhelming force of it all. My shoulders, as they took on the weight of my body as my spine arched into the air fiercely, throbbed and pulsated as though being massaged by angels. My toes curled as far as they could move. I think the female readers will have some context for partially understanding these sensations, but their magnitude was astronomical.

As I have remarked, I am an extremely sensual person. I feel most things far more strongly than most. Up till now, I would rate the highest intensity my nervous system has ever responded with at a 12 out of 10, lol. This was a 50 out of 10. It was outside of anything I expected human forms capable of experiencing. It was a perfect union of agony and electrifying full body response. It lasted for what I surmise was a few minutes, but was an eternal moment, and it left me unable to move or do anything but rest for a long time afterward. As my form writhed and shrieked, it was for a moment an extinction of self and a union with everything. I was the bed, I was the air, I was creation itself, and I was burning with the power of a star. When it "ended" (I am not sure it even has yet) I was both flooded with joy and filled with relief to have come through to the other side of it. It was every bit the supremely exhilerating visitation from the godhead, and the effects are as much emotional as they were physical.

The event itself is something that has lasting echoes as well. I still feel tingling nerves playing over my limbs for large parts of the day, even a week later now. It is as though a powerful amount of energy has been transduced into pure joy that animates my entire life. Walking is like dancing. While I have always felt a strong connection between myself and the natural world while outdoors, now it is like I am part of a chorus. Running is like sex. I feel waves of feverish heat still flowing over my body as aftershocks. I get the impression that even though I know how to make it happen again in theory, that I would be ill-advised to try, because I am still coming to terms with the effects of it having happened even once. I don't even know how long these effects will be with me... if it is like my childhood, maybe forever.

I very much understand now why the Hindus feel base Chakra energy is the fire that fuels everything, and that its transduction is a supremely powerful action. Perhaps this is what people refer to as "Kundalini" these days, although for me the experience was very spinal, but without that painful twisting people report of that event. Even so, I don't think it is wise for me to follow further down that path, because the bodily effects are profound, and are clearly outside of my control. It may be years before I feel up to allowing it to happen a second time. I feel like a thimble that was asked to hold a river. In fact, the shock of it all prevented me from expressing it here until today. Even now, I feel my shoulders throb and heave. I have long overflown.

English is a powerful, powerful language, but there is only so much you can express in words. Bernini's Ecstasy of Saint Teresa above is a much greater attempt at the concept than I can provide. I can't help look at her image now, and think to myself, "Yeah, I get it Sister."

I hope this helps someone, in some way!
175  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Is it possible to become "stuck" in the astral? on: October 20, 2014, 03:28:22
Anyways, when you did project what seemed like months, when you "came back", how much "time" passed? (quotations to save the "technicalities" and such, read replies like that too much for my liking) Cause man, call me crazy, but I would love to stay projected for months, years, and as long as i need to complete my tasks as long as very little time passes in our physical selves. Even if not so, I might have to take on that risk   wink

I described the experience last year when it happened. The long, huge experience I had came as one of a set of experiences that dealt with experiencing the death of other people I failed to prevent, and in experiencing long separation from those close to me. My perception of it all was that I had a months long experience in the course of a night. It started as a lucid dream that ended up having a huge amount of "staying power", and emotional content.

Another kind of experience I have heard others describe (which I never had myself to my recollection) is what I as an outsider to that stuff call the "time loop". These projectors described experiences where they were placed in the special situation of another person or being's life, and they had to make the "right" decision- and being forced to repeat the scenario over and over until they did. Lionheart and Szaxx have both reported this type of experience multiple times, if you wanted to ask them about it.
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