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51  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Does individual consciousness survive transition on: August 01, 2017, 02:42:52
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Rejecting the notion of individual perennity would amount to rejecting as well  the notion of one individual's path towards enlightenment or higher self. smiley

What is to say there is such as thing as enlightenment, or that we are on an upward journey, and not just here having experiences?

Enlightenment wouldn't be the first concept from the old religions to be discarded. A lot of folks automatically seem to assume it as foundational that we are here to improve, but on what proof?

I feel like humans naturally have this concept about getting better over time, and we apply that to a lot of places it may not fit, like evolution, for instance.
52  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Does individual consciousness survive transition on: July 31, 2017, 19:38:54
I'd say in a sense yes, and also no.

A huge part of what we consider our waking identity is connected to our physical bodies and its needs and drives. We might retain the same perspective as a being we had, but be totally changed in terms of sense of identity, because all of that is tied up in our life here.

Consider when you play a computer game... you go out and race cars, or fight orcs, or w/e the thing you do in the game involves. When you step away from the game, do you still race cars in your normal life, or fight orcs? Do you think about how great it would be to win the grand prix, or about your character's family members? Do you still have the same goals and desires your game character had? You don't identify with that character at all. You remember being them, but their identity was only a small part of you. I think this is probably similar to that. You retain memories of it all, but you don't identify with this life at all, because you are bigger than that. You don't have the same drives and needs and desires anymore.

This is all speculation on my part, and that goes for what anyone else would tell you, whether they admit it or not, but that is what base reasoning tells me.
53  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Stillwater's Dream Journal on: July 31, 2017, 15:08:33
July 30, 2017:



I am walking down the corridor of a large multiuse-type building, like you might see at a state fairground in the US. The building itself is very drab and utilitarian, and the floor is paved in concrete in all spaces. The hallway is bounded on one side by a colonade of large, regular columns opening into a larger space, and a series of doors and recesses on the other side of the wall. We are searching for a restroom, because we have been driving for quite a while. Someone finds one at the end of the hall, but it is single-person use, and looks not so pleasant. I go off on my own to look for another restroom, and find one at the other side of the hall; it is a large room filled with machines with pay slots, with no one using them. I decide this isn't for me either, and continue walking. I watch a person enter another door, and decide that this must be where the good restroom is. I follow him in, and after a small antechamber, we enter this industrial looking room, that is completely round. It is about 50 meters in diameter, and is open at the other side to a row of columns, like the hall was. In the middle is a smaller cicular section divided in two by a passge through the middle; since this is aligned with the door, it seems like the natural place to walk.

I get 3/4 of the way to the passage through the middle section of the room, when I see something pretty horrifying... it is a bull with its skin flayed partially off, charging in circles around the outer perimeter of the room, looking for people to charge. It feels like this room is purposefully built to avoid the charging bull, since you can position yourself behind one of the middle sections as he is moving around the room. Myself and the other people in the room do this now, and dash to the middle passage as the bull is rounding the other side of the room, but then find it aligned with the passage again, and then about to charge through the middle passge. We then scramble around to the other side of the middle section, and continue back and forth in this way to evade the bull. This is exhausting, and it continues on like this for quite some time.

I seem to pass out from the mounting fatigue of that situation, and wake in a new sequence, in a bed watching television with some friends, and then sort of fade out from there.



54  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: "You Can't Always Get What You Want": intellect or character? on: July 31, 2017, 02:21:54
They are both important, but I value virtue much more than intellect. Intellect is like potential, and virtue / character is in some ways potential realized.

Let's put the question in concrete terms...

Past a certain baseline threshold, would you rather:

-Associate with a person who can solve complex integration problems, and can name  >30 Shakespeare plays, but will manipulate you, steal from you, and sell you down the river to Vietnamese human trafficers should the opportunity arise

-Associate with a person with a basic highschool-level understanding of the world, but who will always tell you the truth, will defend you no matter what happens, and will treat everyone they meet with compassion and respect?

I have no trouble answering that question. I think most people would answer similarly, when phrased in as clear a fashion.
55  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Stillwater's Dream Journal on: July 30, 2017, 23:35:54
July 29, 2017:

This one is a bit graphic, so feel perfectly free to pass on it. I include dreams like this for the sake of capturing the whole spectrum honestly.

Pretty short and to the point. A woman and I are walking through a building. Our intention there is to blast through a certain spot on the ground with a cartoonish bomb. We arive at the spot... it is about a meter square, and made of a different material than the rest of the floor... a sort of softer-looking gray stone. She is about to place the little bomb (picture it as the classic blue orb with a fuse, and that is more or less right), when we spot one of the dogs that belongs to my sister. He is a beautiful Dalmatian, laying serenely on the ground near by. The woman tells me that we might as well get two for the price of one, and blow up the dog as well, since it was time to get rid of him. Strangely this felt like the exact right thing to do in the dream (it goes without saying this is not a choice I could get behind in the waking state), so I nodded approval. She set the bomb, and it went off, and didn't even dent the spot in the floor, but it blew the dog clean in half... part of his spine and some intestines trailing behind him as he crawled across the floor in agony. We were both horrified at the result, and quickly set several more bombs. Each new bomb blew chunks off of him, but he wasn't killed until the 6th or 7th bomb went off beside him. The abject shock and horror of this sequence of events woke me from sleep immediately, and I was quite shaken for a couple minutes after waking.
56  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Stillwater's Dream Journal on: July 28, 2017, 13:18:20
July 27, 2017:

A particularly rich one tonight, with tons of features:

I am viewing, from a disembodied perspective, a version of the map of the United States (my home country). It sort of has some of the features of the actual one. I lived on the east coast for a good portion of my life, so the part that I am focused on is largely made up of east coast states, although they are curiously on the west coast of the map, in more or less the same order going up the coast. Notably though, there is a giant mountain in the top left labeled "Connecticut", lol. This feels natural and right.

A bit of time passes, and I am walking down the side of a road in a coastal area. The place sort of reminds me of junctures where several highways converge, sort of like the famous one in LA:



The major difference is that the junction is right beside the beach, and it is almost entirely absent of cars. I am about to walk off the road to the beach, when a policeman walks up to me; he says, "I think I'd shoot you dead, and drop you off the edge of this bridge... people like you...". I sort of look at him blankly, and say "...huh." I look off to the beach instead, and walk over there.

I am walking on the beach for quite some time, when I see a mountain peaking out at the horizon. I reflect a bit, and say to myself, thinking of the map again... yeah, that must be Connecticut. I walk a bit more, and the mountain gets just a tiny bit closer. I run into an old friend at the beach... she is just hanging out enjoying some time off. We are very glad to see one another. I point to the mountain, and tell her that I think it is Connecticut. She says, "Really?" I tell her I think it is probably about 200 miles out, because mountains tend to look a lot closer than they actually are. I explain that I intend to get there though. I reason it will take about 6-7 days of walking if I keep a good pace (which I am actually capable of, in good conditions in real life... I have managed over 45 miles in single days before). We chat a bit more, and enjoy one another's company, and then I set out to reach Connecticut mountain.

I walk off the beach a bit, now walking beside my father. We are walking through a city environment off the coast a bit. We walk a few blocks, and then I notice that I am barefoot. I must have left my shoes back at the beach with my friend. I reason that I will never make it barefoot, so I tell my father I have to go back for my shoes. He says something about not burdening women, or something like that which I consider quaint, and I don't place much stock in.

I show up again at the beach, and there my shoes are again, waiting with my friend. I set off again, and go walking by a different route, this time through some overgrown dirt path. I run into my brother out there, and tell him about Connecticut mountain, and that I think it is around 200 miles off. He denies this, and says it is only 5 miles away. I tell him this can't be true, that he just can't be right about that. We don't agree about it, and I just continue on.

A bit of time passes, and I walk into a sort of internet cafe place, with only a few computers. I stand at one in the back right, two from the wall. I have a short little vision where I see a person taking a certain disjointed-looking body position at my current console, in order to initiate a kind of trans-dimensional travel. After viewing this, I am standing at the computer console again, and take this same stance. I travel to another reality, and I am in the same cafe, but in another universe or something like that. My friend is there again. She is showing me some pictures of her travels on a computer. I view about 7-8 of them, and then I notice that I need to view a certain one of her pictures in order to travel back to my universe again. I do that, and travel back immediately. Then I take the same stance, and travel back to hers again. I think I am sort of getting a feel for how reliable this method of travel is.

She is back to showing me the pictures. She asks me if I would like to flip through them myself, and I agree to do that. I start flipping through them again, and get very disconcerted, because I am not seeing the same pictures show up again, and I know that I need to view the particular one to return to my universe. I start giving her a comparison about the situation... I tell her how I am comfortable wandering around outside my home, as long as I recognize the road names. I will feel comfortable seeing a few new ones, as long as I am near roads that I know. The further away from roads I can name I get, the less comfortable I am (I am basically telling her to flip through the images again, because I am not comfortable being too far away from images that I recognize, and thus unable to return home via the travel method). She understands, and goes back to the part of the image set I recognize, and I travel back home to my universe.

The rest of the dream takes place in some sort of cabin space, where I am inspecting items in my bag, thinking about whether I may have left something in the other universe, and what effects it may have on that universe.

57  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Stillwater's Dream Journal on: July 25, 2017, 14:30:33
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That's a fascinating dream - your attention to detail and dream awareness is of very high quality.

Yeah this one was particularly noteworthy.

Normally the ones I can recall well happen right before I wake up. This is partially because your last of 3-4 sleep cycles at the end of sleep is much longer, and your mind is much more rested; the dreams you may have here can stretch out pretty long, especially if you oversleep by a bit. If I just awake from a long dream late in the sleep cycle, this is generally where I can extract these long and detailed accounts from.

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Do you interpret your dreams, or just 'let them be'? I'm curious to what you think this one might mean (if you do indeed try to make sense of them).

I am sort of half and half. I think some dreams may potentially tell us some things about our own psychology, and others may be more chance constructions. With this one in particular, I didn't really get the sense that there was a lot of psychological content (beyond what they normally have), so didn't really reach hard in trying to analyze it.

Probably the most noteworthy thing about dreams for me (and why I make effort to recall and record the more involved ones) is that you can sort of step into a new set of circumstances and have new emotional experiences that you don't have the context to experience in your normal life.

For instance, I will never have a twin in this life. But I could in a dream, and then I immediately have a context for having access to the sort of mental experiences you might have only in that situation.

Making a record of these dreams is sort of like making a record of all of these super novel experiences that it is useful to be able to recall in the future.

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And if you don't mind repeating yourself (as I'm sure you've posted this elsewhere/before), what is your technique for the process of transforming an LD to a projection? Do you actively DO something or is it simply a mindset? Curious.


I don't mind at all, especially considering where we are, hehe.

So when I was younger, I very much turned my nose when people spoke about "affirmations". I sort of lumped it in as an extract of "New Age" culture and thinking which was sort of made up and not worth the time, and which everyone was repeating like parrots. I think there is a strong basis of value though behind the idea. If we remind ourselves often that we are focused on a specific goal, our entire consciousness seems to shift more into being in line with valuing it and realizing it. It isn't the saying of it, so much as the intending it. So that is sort of step one... being in a mindset where we are sincerely focused on achieving our goal, and will direct our energy toward that goal. I will often remind myself of this strongly as I am falling off to sleep... I believe this helps to align the subconscious mind with our intention; we are the same consciousness in a dream state as we are when we are waking, afterall. So we find ourself in a dreamstate now, and we have this burning idea in the back of our head about remembering our goal. If we are lucid enough (as in one of those long  sleeping-in sort of dreams I mentioned earlier) the idea will pop into our head again, as it does during the day. But now we suddenly have the idea in the dream state, and the crucial detail for recognizing it is in fact a dream state enters our mind. This is sort of where it goes one of two ways for me. I sometimes come to be in a roused state as a result of this realization, and the excitement of being in a situation that can lead to a projection experience can be enough to sort of wake me up, and I will find myself just talking to myself in my head with my eyes closed (which isn't that bad in itself, because then you can go through a projection routine in that state), or I might slip into a full-fledged projection if I maintain a detached-enough state of mental calm (I don't really differentiate between lucid dreams and projections, as I believe they are the same experience reached by different entry points).

So the basis of the technique... is that it is sort of a non-technique. It consists of an overriding intention which visits our conscious mind often enough that it might enter our sleeping mind as well, and then maintaining a state of detachment necessary to slip smoothly into the projection environment. Pretty simple and unsophisticated!
58  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Stillwater's Dream Journal on: July 24, 2017, 19:02:06
Hi All!

I just realized, after reading the journals of others (especially the newly returned and modded Selski- three cheers!) that I have a pretty exhaustive record of my own dreams, which are often somewhat novel. I might as well start sharing some now!

I generally have very vivid dreams that tell coherent narratives, and which I make a point to retell to myself upon waking. This step is crucial, because it solidifies the memory of the experience. This is also a common technique to perform after projection experiences as well. I think the theory is that the sorts of memories formed when we are outside the waking state tend to get discarded by our brains, but the retelling of the account once awake can serve to then transform it into a waking memory.

Most of the projection experiences I have tend to be launched from lucid dreams as well... this seems to fit my lifestyle best; but this journal will be strictly for the experiences which are closer to classical dreams.

So here is one recent account to start:

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July 22nd, 2017:

I don't recall the beginning of the dream sequence, but I recall everything from about the 1/3 point onward. I find myself in what feels like an office building (with fairly generous amounts of walking space, and some large open areas on each floor). There are around 40 other people there, all gathered for an impromptu meeting. There is a lot of tension in the air. The people gathered here (including myself) don't feel like the natural inhabitants of this office building. It feels like we all came to be here in an attempt to hide from something. There is one speaker, and he has the air of a person with advanced knowledge of the situation, more than the rest of us had. He explains that if we take on the appearance of the building's normal inhabitants, and appear to be doing tasks appropriate for the setting, we will be safe. It is sort of implied that there are people watching from outside. The impression I get is that they are armed with long-range rifles and have some means of seeing into the building. They aren't only watching this building, but they are particularly vigilant, and will eventually notice when something doesn't look right.

We waste no time in taking positions, and getting into the rhythm of feigning being active at mundane office tasks. The easiest way to do this is to sit at a computer console and tinker with things on the screen. I casually glance around at many others with the same thought, sort of reflecting on how their docile demeanor while tooling around aimlessly at the computers is so comically different from the mental states they must be experiencing. After a bit of this, I sort of grow bored of it, and decide to walk off to see what other simulated office tasks I can take part in. I walk down an open stairwell to the level below, and I pass a person midway down who is curled up into a ball asleep in a small niche in a wall. I immediately think about how this person is failing at the game pretty hard. I don't stop and stare at them (since that would be out of the ordinary, and it would draw attention to the anomaly), but I start asking myself questions. Can they see that person like that from outside? Are they ruining it for everyone? If they are in fact perfectly hidden, did they just manage to opt out of it all, but in a way that will impact no one? Does this mean I could also sleep in that same stairwell later, because it must be perfectly concealed?

The floor below is much like the one above, but with less computers. This floor is fairly dimly lit. There are a few people standing at consoles, doing the same routine as before... a few others having a quiet conversation in a far off corner. I stand at a workspace, and begin slicing stacks of paper with a hand cropping tool. I start thinking about how long the game will work. Will the watchers kill only those who step out of line? Will they attack everyone after they notice something is wrong up here? After about another 15 minutes down here, I walk back up to the floor above again, and pass the person in the stairwell again. I walk around the floor, taking survey of everyone up there... they are at the consoles again, mainly. Everyone with vacant looks... somehow trying to pretend the images they see on the screens interest them in some way. Things went on like this for a bit longer, more-or-less without major incident, just a stream of sameness. I think the dream felt like it lasted for 40 minutes in this narrative, and stayed pretty stable with it.

It all sounds very grim, but that isn't really how I experienced it. I sort of experienced it all in a very detached way, indifferent to a sense of danger. I knew that I ought to act a certain way... but it wasn't really out of fear, so much as just... "Ok, this is how things are here. I will behave accordingly here." The experience I had more than anything was a state of questioning... trying to piece together what the rules of this world were, and how to pursue my own interests by disguising them with convincing enough-cover acts.

59  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: New Old... new? Moderator! :) on: July 23, 2017, 19:01:49
Hmm... looks like my account predated yours by a bit  cheesy

It is the only account of any kind from that far back I still use, lol.

And yeah... that is sort of how you start a religion. Maybe though... we don't prophesy an end date, but... a start date? That might get people thinking...

Start of what? Well that is part of the mystery. It will be partially revealed when you reach Metan level 7, at least...




60  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Selski's Dream Journal on: July 23, 2017, 13:32:34
I really enjoy reading these, keep it up! I should start sharing more of mine here as well... I have VERY vivid ones that I make a point to review and retell to myself when I wake up. You have experiences in dreams that you would have no other place... it is like you get to experience someone else's life for a moment.

I think I'll jump on this bandwagon  cool
61  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: New Old... new? Moderator! :) on: July 22, 2017, 16:59:27
I think it is sort of part of a cycle.

There are peaks when the public is more interested in this stuff. For instance, in the early days of the public internet boom (1997 or so) there was a large uptick in the interest in consciousness studies / metaphysical ideas that happened naturally due to the availability of the material to a new audience, around sites like "Spiritweb". The Pulse sort of sprang up riding that wave.

And then of course there was the 2012 nonsense that got people thinking about metaphysical ideas again, but in sort of a fad mentality, so small uptick again there. There hasn't really been anything since then.

I think the Pulse' membership is falling off a bit due to the manual account registration now, as we do accidentally reject many actual people (as opposed to bots). The ones that are interested despite the difficulty will email me to help them (because I am the first name in the mods list lol); I bet you will now be the first name, since you have the oldest account!
62  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: New Old... new? Moderator! :) on: July 22, 2017, 02:24:30
Ages lol. The last time I saw you around, Robert Bruce was still affiliated with the forum. That must be what, 2003?

Welcome back!
63  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: World Is A Simulation on: July 03, 2017, 04:36:11
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In other words, the matter is just numbers.

I think this is sort of a confusion of language. In some sense, the base constituents of the actual matter are pretty evasive; the further down we go, the more structure we see... so lacking any view at substance, we use numbers as representation. But this is very different from saying the matter IS numbers as its identity. It is sort of irresponsible to make that conclusion... more responsible would be to say that the ultimate nature of the material is not known.

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We have electrons, protons and all such entities here, that are identical in every way.

This actually isn't true. Every proton and neutron is slightly different. The mass of a nuclear particle changes with the atomic number of of the element in question. This is why it is fairly trivial to perform a chemical reaction, but nuclear reactions require massive shifts of energy inward or outward. The Protons of Helium are a hair smaller than the ones in Hydrogen; part of the mass was burned off as energy in the fusion process.

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There would be some constants, some global fixed values, that appear for no obvious reason. E.g. there are physical constants like c or G or h that appear in many equations.

It is pretty strange how arbitrary the universal constants are, no? Or for that matter, what causes them the change slightly over time and space... one of the great mysteries of this world...

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Loading of processors can happen when there is a huge amount of data to be crunched. We see such effects near very large bodies, such as stars, where time slows down near their surface because there are too many particles to compute.

This is sort of a stretch... we have a pretty good answer for why time dilates in response to velocity and gravity in relativity, and relativity's predictions hold across many domains.

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Statistical nature. Some outcomes are predicted instead of being calculated exactly. This is faster but less accurate. So we have laws of thermodynamics, gas laws or fluid dynamics, probability distributions and uncertainty principle.

This may also be a matter of accuracy. The real events may be so obscure to us that the outcomes APPEAR statistical. There are many other interpretations of quantum behavior, such as Bohmian mechanics, which suggests that quantum events are indeed classically regular and deterministic, and not subject to chance.

--------

I actually don't disagree with the simulation theory on the face of it. There are many strong philosophical reasons to suppose this reality might be a simulation embedded in another reality (which I can get into, if you'd like). I would just caution against taking observations about the world, and bending them to the service of an idea when they don't really fit. It is really hard to avoid confirmation bias when there is concept we are fond of. There are many very good reasons to think this world might be simulated. We don't need to invent new ones to artificially bolster what is already a strong idea.

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This is the original claim of non-dual teachings, that are unchallenged since thousands of years.

Both Monisms are more appealing than dualism, I agree. I think idealistic monism (of mind) is an easier position to hold, because it has a lot less explaining to do. It is much easier to explain that a material world can be an idea held by a mind (thus unifying them) then to explain how a material world can give rise to a mind (when they are quite dissimilar).
64  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: What have you learned about the fundamentals of the universe? on: June 27, 2017, 09:41:45
Not really. As an experienced projector, I haven't reached any conclusions. It's a valid addition.  smiley

Agreed.

The main way you learn truths about the universe is through science (and to some extent greater philosophy). It is very difficult to apply any kind of science in a projection experience in most cases, due to the subjective element. You lack repeatability. You lack peer corroboration. You lack peer-review. I would be very skeptical of someone claiming to learn fundamental truths in that environment. You get endless fuel for thought, and get endless glimpses of things which may be. Conclusions are few and far between if you want to be responsible about it. 
65  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Back to College on: June 25, 2017, 20:50:21
Yeah good to see you around again for sure!
66  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: What happened that made you realize astral projection is real on: June 23, 2017, 06:01:52
What is real in this context? Helps to know what the goalposts of the question are... because I can think of senses in which it is both real and not real!
67  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: sexual fantasies? on: June 12, 2017, 02:49:51
I guess it is like anything. As long as it is consensual, no one is harmed, and it doesn't dominate your mind, it is probably healthy enough.

I think there is is sort of a stigma against sensuality in the context of mysticism and metaphysics. I think it comes from the beginnings of western philosophy, which were rooted in Plato and Christian teachings in dialogue with one another. Plato very much idealized the abstract, and it caused him to view the physical and all that was associated with it as lesser. The early church sort of absorbed this all up, and the emphasis shifted to heavenly rewards and the present world being labeled profane. I think this attitude has carried to the present, and I have a feeling many people here view projection as a means to escaping to a more refined state of existence away from the tainted physical.

But sensuality can also be a very great ally and teacher, if it isn't your master. It is very different in later Hindu philosophy. There is a reason why the theory of chakras places the root sensual chakra as the wellspring which feeds the others. Sensuality can animate us, and be filtered into every facet of our lives as an incredibly positive and constructive force. I think one of the problems is that sensuality is limited to the area of sex in modern thinking, which is very good, but limiting, since it has a strong part to play across our entire lives.
68  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Is there racists in the astral? on: March 18, 2017, 08:29:45
If we experience only one personality ever, then what amount of knowledge will we gain. I am not talking reincarnation only in the physical, but in many other dimensions. Lets not separate what we call physical and all other levels of existence regardless of thought responsiveness. What knowledge will a baby who lives a few hours only will receive? Or the fruit fly, LOL. Think about it.
Individual spirits will always have personalities no matter where they are. It's a part of the multiversal existence. If you only decide to merge completely with the source and become one with everything, then you will lose your personality, but then there will be no more learning. The reason the source spread as endless personalities is to continue growing and expanding. Otherwise there will be just one static ball of energy Smiley

I don't think we loose our personality immediately after death. If it was so, when we project there will be no interactions with different entities. They do have personalities, right? Many of us have done retrievals, and the spirits trapped still retained their personalities, fears, beliefs, that's why they were trapped. Also, we as the personalities we know currently exist simultaneously in many many levels.

Here is a perspective:

When people talk about biological evolution, they often speak as though animals that evolved later are more advanced, or better adapted. They speak as though biological evolution has a purpose, or a goal, and that by evolving, animals are getting closer to that goal. The scientific truth of it seems closer to being that animals are merely changing over time, and that evolution is driven by mutations making some individuals more likely to survive and pass on their genetics, because those mutations made those individuals more competent at working and surviving a certain niche. So in the case of evolution, the misconception is that there is a purpose, and the reality is that it is merely an emergent process happening in the physical system.

I'd say something similar may be happening with respect to a life a being experiences. Who is to say there ever was a purpose? And if there is, why does that purpose have to be cumulative? Maybe it is a one shot and you're done thing. Maybe the life the fruit fly lived isn't helping a "higher self" grow to the point where they can experience the duck life. Maybe the fruit fly life was its own goal.

Clearly, if the purpose was to gain human-type experiences which we judge to be of quality, this universe and planet are VERY poorly setup for that. If I was an alien being evaluating what divine purpose the earth might serve, I would reason it must be a place to experience insect and oceanic arthropod life. Compared to all of them, human life is a very small sideshow. There are probably tens of billions of insects and other arthropods for every single human life here. This is really their show. So I'd reason if a "Source being" was interested in anything here, they wanted to find out what it was like to be a krill shrimp a millimeter across, since that is overwhelmingly what is happening over here.
69  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Labels on: January 27, 2017, 21:14:25
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We tell people you should "Act like a man!" or "Act like a woman!"... when those statements are actually relatively meaningless.

I agree with this. Gender roles are pretty artificial constructs, and they vary substantially across countries, which only reinforces the fact that they are fairly arbitrary. When someone says "Act like X", what they are really saying is "conform to my personal standard of views about what I want X to do".

But then the flipside bridges into Plasma's statement:

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Yeah I must admit that the whole LGBT thing is having a crisis because many of them are applying way too many labels as in pronouns and expecting society to use them.

So Plasma is pointing out that there is friction between the new gender identity folks, and everyone else in society, and part of it is over pronouns. There are pretty much only 2-3 (m / f / neutral) in most languages. Why are they there? Well society by necessity, not choice, must treat male and female people differently in some circumstances. This is not a statement about individuals, so much as general rules which lead to safety and smooth functioning. Due to evolutionary differences, men and women behave differently as groups in some situations. Due to these critical differences, the labels make important distinctions. So society has an expectation that people who look one way will carry x label, and another will carry y label, to make it all easier. When people ask to step outside this naming convention, it does two things: firstly, it punishes normal people for lacking knowledge about the individual in advance, which they tend to resent; Second, it confuses; when an individual says that they are going against the general pronoun naming rules, the others now realize they don't know what expectations to have of the person. So this person looks biologically male, but they want to use a female or other pronoun? How should I interact with them? Like a female or a male? What expectations of them should I have?
70  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Labels on: January 27, 2017, 11:57:23
Ok, I'll give it a shot.

I am 5'11" tall.

I am biologically male (due to having a Y chromosome). I tend to think of myself as genderless in my own self-relfections, but then that doesn't change physical reality that we are inhabiting for the moment, so the classification is still useful for interacting with others.

Aren't some labels useful, if nothing else for filing or classifying or sorting?

I know that I am more than my current experience, etc, etc; but for the moment, using those labels can have their uses, no? I know that I needn't buy toddler's shoes for myself, because they will not fit my feet.

I understand that the labels we are talking about here are probably more on an abstract level, but wouldn't the same principles apply?
71  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: Hello everyone from a physicist! on: November 30, 2016, 18:26:58
Good to see you made it on after the registration mixup! It is always nice having people of different viewpoints and background around.
72  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Is there such a thing as a non-physical world? on: October 22, 2016, 04:38:25
Well, if a character has negative destructive thoughts they cant tune into a reality that has a "higher" if you will energy quality. That is the simplest example I can think of.

This does seem to happen. It is the old "like-states attract like-states" argument of metaphysics. But I guess the question I was asking earlier, is if there is some way to pin this effect to the concept of vibration (I don't think there is), or if the connection is mainly a constant metaphor in common use.
73  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Is there such a thing as a non-physical world? on: October 22, 2016, 04:35:06
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My current understanding is that physical and non-physical is all one thing.

I think so too. It is all likely to be material in some form, or immaterial in some form. It is hard to explain how immaterial and material things would interact, in fact famously so.

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With respect to science, our society is very dependent (e.g., because everyone has a biological brain) upon the materialist arguments, so I quietly disengage those that are grounded to the physical earth when debate arises (e.g., those of us that know from experience will understand).

Yeah, the mind very much appears to be an immaterial thing, because from the vantage point of this world only, there is no explaining why it can exist. There is no obvious way to cross the ontological gap of the material world, with a known set of properties, and first person awareness, which doesn't seem in any way related to any of those known properties. But interestingly, even if the mind is immaterial from the vantage point of this world, it may be material from the vantage point of another, as other worlds are not bound necessarily by these same material laws and properties!

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I would not be too quick to draw up a bunch of laws or rules about the relationship between the physical and non-physical. The Universe has a lot of mystery built in purposely.

I agree, that from this vantage, very little can with certainty be learned about the other realities. But the question is, are there any self-evident truths, or very easily derived arguments about something we could deduce to be true of these other realities?
74  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Is there such a thing as a non-physical world? on: October 22, 2016, 04:23:14
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If we forget about the terms "physical" and "non-physical" and call them all realities, things will get much simpler. Realities differ from one another by frequencies, thought responsiveness, stability, density,

I am familiar with the concepts of metaphysical "vibrating frequencies", and "density". I can't really make sense of them though... I wish I knew who originated these terms, since it would be easier to investigate the history of their usage. The concept of vibration of course applies fully to this physical existence, as everything is in constant pulsing motion, of some grade. But I am not convinced that frequency of motion corresponds to other realities... I have run into many assertsions that this is true, but haven't run into an argument for how we can know it to be true.

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The multiverse is very complex, and with our limitations here we can only speculate.

For sure. And isn't it a grand time speculating!  wink
75  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Is there such a thing as a non-physical world? on: October 22, 2016, 04:13:55
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THis topic seems to reflect the philosophical discussion we know for ages, e.g. Descartes and his 'duality' (here's the material world - here's the spirit world and only few connections) vs. the ideas of idealism or monism.

Very much so. I tend to think one of the monisms is likely to be true. Either everything is immaterial, and materiality is an illusion, or everything is material. It is hard to grasp why there would be two cartesian substances.

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I do not think that what we call non-physical does have to have the same rules or any rules we know.


I would tend to agree. I think the laws of this physical are determined from above, and the next existence it is nested inside is not at all bound to those laws (but probably its own set).

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Our minds cannot grasp the higher reality rulesets as long as we are here because according to this ruleset here we are not meant to have this capability.

I agree, their rules could probably not be learned from this vantage point. But I am pressing a different question here- can we reason the fact that they must have rules at all? I am supposing we might do this, with my instability argument above.



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