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51  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: The ethical dilemma of eating to live on: September 29, 2017, 01:45:50
So in this common concept of ethics, we are trying for a system that results in the maximal well-being for the widest possible number of entities. The tricky thing, is it is still in the context of the domination and power struggle I mentioned earlier. It starts because some group feels like they know what is in the greater good. In order to realize this goal, they have to dominate reality around them in order to impose it.
Yes, this does seem true. There is a name for the break point at which a unit becomes self aware at a level that they can go from some kind of reactive and semi-autonomous mentality to actively taking up the quest and responsibility of altering their behavior. I think it was named something like the third order of consciousness.

Once you take an active step to meddle with the environment around you, you are eternally responsible for the repercussions. Taking control on some level is mandatory to make a change. I see this pattern repeating at levels beyond our reality, the existence of this system and our participation in it is a domination of higher order reality.

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This is effectively what all political power is... asking for the right to the sole exercising of force over a given domain, in order to enact a given goal of their choosing, but we know that old Lord Acton dictum, that, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".  There is the biological thing that happens, where the more power a person has, the less empathy their brain will produce. It is some evolutionary mechanism we have, where we only seem to value the wellbeing of others as long as we aren't winning. When we switch to winning, we switch to a strategy that maximizes our influence, and thus our number and quality of our mates, and / or the resources for our children is maximized.

If the power corrupts idea is really correct wouldn't that mean that the idea of God is absolute corruption? I suspect that the power corrupts observation may only hold true in the short term because those that become corrupt with power would tend towards self destruction. The evolutionary mechanism is a pretty amazing factoid. That strategy for survival has to have worked pretty well for us in the past but it is likely also short term. If humans continued to evolve for millions more years natural selection might create a default where we do value the wellbeing of others even when we have power, since that could be the best strategy for our current and future scenarios.

Where does that leave us? Maybe the escape route is to find a way to have positive influence without exerting power. Kind of seems conceptually impossible though, almost by definition the ability to make change, directly or indirectly, is power.
52  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: The ethical dilemma of eating to live on: September 28, 2017, 06:23:34
Well for me, I have no definition for spiritual profit. I cannot even say if it is a real thing or not, since it depends on all sorts of metaphysical assumptions I don't think it is safe to assume.

True, what is really fundamental in the cosmic scale might be unknowable. I try to use a scale of extremes to imagine spiritual profit, suppose that living on earth is the game and that game supports two states: being alive, playing the game; being dead, game over. By these standards winning the game is maximizing the units and the quality of the experience of each unit. Losing the game is some unsustainable arrangement that gravitates towards all the units dying.

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On the other hand, I think even a child can understand harm. They know what things are unpleasant to them, and they reason that other creatures shouldn't have those same unpleasant things visited on them. Children respect the feelings and safety of their family pets. It is self-evident to them that harm is a tangible thing.

But let's for a moment entertain the idea that spiritual profit may exist:

It really starts to lead to a dark place to me... because we start reasoning, "how much suffering is it ok to cause, if the result is positive for my growth?"

There is a sort of parasitic / vampiristic quality to that sort of reasoning to me. I am very uncomfortable with the notion that it is ok to harm others against their will if we determine it is for our own greater good.

Ethics leads lots of terrible, dark places if applied consistently actually.

Vampirism is a pretty interesting concept. How can you be uncomfortable with these ideas though? I feel like harming others for our greater good is what we do every single day, you can barely take a breath without doing it.

If you look at harm without the tradeoff of the benefits gained you are paralyzed in this reality and others. If the larger consciousness system generates a fresh unit, knowing we are likely to suffer in this reality, it is doing harm. But it does it anyway because in the long run there is a tradeoff for growth and it needs this process to live. If the answer to how much harm can we cause to grow is zero, aren't we dead in the water?
53  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: The ethical dilemma of eating to live on: September 27, 2017, 21:46:52
Good replies. I like the Buddhist views on this topic. This is definitely a matter where people are acting as merchants of doubt to keep us paralyzed in confusion on what the least harm really is.

Speaking directly to Stillwater's latest reply I would make an advance on the definition of harm. I don't see killing a crab as being less harm than eating a mushroom just because the crab can feel pain. I think one has to judge harm based on the potential of the entire system to profit.

Mass agriculture is pretty destructive, as is the mass raising of livestock. When you are using agriculture to feed the livestock the problem really is compounded. In my home country of New Zealand we don't raise livestock on crops, there is still enough land left for them to eat grass luckily.

Maybe minimizing harm isn't the end of the argument though. Shouldn't it really be about maximizing spiritual profit while doing the least harm? There may be a point of inflection where one can say that it is necessary to cause a small amount of harm in order to yield a large amount of benefits for everything. Every decision is an active decision.
54  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / The ethical dilemma of eating to live on: September 26, 2017, 20:12:25
Here is a polarizing topic to enjoy. Many advocate veganism for example as a way of life for conducting minimum damage, but is it really correct or some kind of feel-good moral high ground stance? On the other side of the fence you see those that follow the hunt to eat protocol and deeply feel themselves as part of nature and respecting the animals.

I saw a documentary on Wakanui beef farmers. The farmer they focused on really professed to love his cows and in turn they seemed to live a relatively happy and stress free life.

The farmer, the cows, the land, the people that eat them all form symbiosis. Some say symbiosis is one of the highest vibration configurations for life. It makes me wonder what would happen to that land if we no longer ran cattle. It is ironic to think that veganism protects animals, but also obsoletes their purpose from a symbiosis standpoint. We wouldn't commit much land to cows just treat them like pets, so not eating cows will wipe out their population?

Tom Campbell uses the example that one cow in the wild has a better experience than one hundred cows on the farm, but is that really the case? Most animals that live in the wild suffer excruciating death at the hands of predators. We believe that pets undergo spiritual growth by the virtue of being around humans, can the same be said of free range livestock?

Then I look at a coffee plantation where the human and environmental cost of production is obscene - yet it is considered ethically vegan.

The question of how to live while doing the least harm is a really difficult problem to solve. No matter which direction you turn someone or something is getting plundered and abused on this planet...

How do you settle the ethical debate in your own minds? Keep it civil...lol.
55  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Supplements for projection on: September 26, 2017, 19:53:29
There are some products on the market that have been shown to increase dream recall and focus such as AlphaBrain. I have tried it and didn't notice much of a difference but Dream Tea on the other hand was extremely palpable. It is made from Valerian herb and Mugwort. You might be able to find it at an apothecary.
56  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: another law of attraction ' tip ' post. on: September 13, 2017, 20:52:48
I have a theory on how this works. One can imagine all of the possible scenarios that could occur tomorrow as a bell curve, where some likely scenarios fall into high probability to occur in the center of the curve and the majority taper off into the unlikely edges of the curve.

There are lots of factors that influence the most probable scenarios. The biggest is probably the inertia of the current scenario. Then you have free will choices to deliberately alter the status quo outcomes. Consciousness also participates in the mass expectation of what is about to occur, and this influences the random lottery of quantum mechanics.

When you try to use the law of attraction or whatever you name it, you are scanning the bell curve for your desired scenario. It is out there, although it could be extremely unlikely to occur. Once your goal scenario is firmly in mind all that is required is a combination of free choice actions and expectations that cause that scenario to be realized.

The kicker is that the steps are somewhat unknowable and only ever probabilities, not guarantees. This is where you have to use your consciousness as the compass to find the right actions and change the right expectations. It is capable of leading you to the choices that need to be made. Sometimes the choice isn't directly in your hands, it might be your boss' decision for instance. The compass will still find a way to solve the scenario by leading you to influence your boss' expectations or free will choices in the required manner. Sometimes just thinking about it can be enough of an influence through a kind of imperceptible telepathy.

My experience is that these techniques can produce substantial real results in a short time. Get a raise, a new position at work, get a change of position when things aren't working out. It might take as little as one day to achieve the outcome.

To give a balanced perspective I also want to talk about when this fails to produce real results. Two incompatible dreams, you want to have a stable income and raise a family. You also want to be a risky entrepreneur but you are afraid to take the necessary steps. You have to be clear enough with your goal to traverse a line of reality that includes decisions you are willing to make.

57  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Sleeping after you die? on: September 11, 2017, 06:35:24
I ask because I get tired of being aware all the time.... Wouldn't it be nice to just black out or go into a coma style blackness whenever we want?  Then kinda wake up later... when we are refreshed and be like oh yeah... okay... and carry on with whatever we are doing?

I think you could do this, but you may find you no longer feel the need when the time comes. Perhaps the tiredness is just part of the limitations of being human. On the other hand if the tiredness is mental perhaps it would persist.

I like to think of our pure consciousness forms as being like an artificial intelligence would be in our reality. They don't really get tired because their being is encoded into an energy structure that is provided by a higher order source, just like our consciousness.

That doesn't mean there cannot be faults in the program that make you experience something like tiredness though. Beyond that, we can put our AI programs to sleep and have them wake themselves up after a certain amount of time has passed. Consciousness must be capable of doing the same, so sleeping for spirits gets the thumbs up from me.
58  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: what do I do during the 3D blackness? on: September 07, 2017, 05:41:14
Has anyone got a solid technique for me to try when in this state? I mean perhaps something that worked for you when you did it from this state.

I once converted one of those 3d blackness experiences into a real time zone experience. For me it worked by feeling my body as being very light. I had a sensation of rising like a helium balloon. Once I had risen what felt like a meter or two off the ground the visual aspect of the reality rendered in, along with my "astral body".
59  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Telekinesis would be easy to learn if could see very small movements on: September 06, 2017, 20:48:05
Have you ever tried doing this experiment with another human to witness it? I have read theories that suggest these kinds of feats can only be performed when there is sufficient obfuscation to the scenario that we can deny the results (in this case the video that we can just say is a hoax to deny telekinesis).

Being able to do this alone is still pretty impressive for me, but how can we know it is real? I can't really think of a way. It could even be impossible based on our limiting beliefs.

It is definitely possible to measure and predict the mouse movements, I am not sure how accurate the results will be though. It would need to be very accurate to clearly point out the differences caused by the telekinesis, pending on how dramatic they are.
60  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: I keep getting dreams of hell. on: September 02, 2017, 20:55:28
It's like the classic (I am going to reincarnate on earth and I plan to be in a horrible accident... I am going to live life as a burn victim. I won't even look human anymore I will be in pain everyday... I will learn a lot from that...) Man I am just not buying that anymore. You hear the same thing in the new age community where they say people chose to die in 9/11 for a learning experience or just an experience in general. My question would be why? What would you learn? Watching your family suffer from something that was an inside job in the first place?

Good point. I always felt this was a problem with the idea of people signing up for a particular experience.

Looking at it from another perspective, maybe the signing up thing was always false, or is partially false. We know that unplanned pregnancy exists, people are getting born and someone has to live those experiences.

Perhaps only a select few get to choose a probable life. Or maybe the lives we choose are so uncertain that they don't pan out a lot of the time. Maybe the lives that no one else wants are forced upon a brand new unit of consciousness that doesn't know anything different.

I won't pretend to know if any of those ideas are correct. What I do suspect is that the idea of re-incarnation has some practical value for developing consciousness and would be a sensible mechanic to implement in some fashion.
61  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: I keep getting dreams of hell. on: September 01, 2017, 04:23:55
Aren't all the terrible things about this reality that PhaseshifteR described also the things that make it an effective learning experience?

Suppose we were born into Utopian societies where all systems approached perfection and life was harmonious. How do these people react when they are dropped into an imperfect scenario? Can they be tempted by the same kinds of traps that humans fall into?

Is true learning really possible without polarity? Is the wisdom accrued by your society really yours if it is just your cultural programming?
62  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Re: Question about dream people on: August 30, 2017, 08:38:07
Can I think into existence a dream person that can give me advice on how to have more lucid dreams after I wake up? undecided

I think you are underestimating the immense complexity of consciousness. Everything that has ever been experienced or known to any conscious being is connected to your mind. If you tried to manifest someone that would give genuine advice on a specific topic, I would expect the consciousness system to respond with an amalgamation of real experience and information that you would interpret as your dream person.
63  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Modern day martyr or crazy idea that can't possibly help? on: August 27, 2017, 20:48:42
Dude that is a lot of stuff to read. I'll do what I can. I'm skeptical of alternative therapies but I'll look into it and see if it's something that can work for me.  smiley

True, I put forward 4 separate concepts at once, I take them with a grain of salt and sample to find what works for me in reality, but the Wim Hof Method is where I would put the most stock and where I have the most personal experience to confirm the benefits. It's good to be skeptical. WHM has some interesting feats for healing though:

  • Cured frost bite in a toe, in 2 days, that medical professionals said would need to be amputated.
  • Cured auto immune conditions like multiple sclerosis and parkinsons in many individuals within months.
  • A women with boiling water burns on 6% of her skin healed to the degree that surgeons had never seen within 1 week.
  • A man had his arm broken by a horse kick and used the method to control the pain and heal in record time.

It reads like a mystic guru list for sure, however it is quite practical and logical, the science behind how this works has been confirmed in controlled studies in Holland. The 40 odd world records achieved with the method sort of prove there is something new going on there. The method has a physical component and an energy / emotional healing component. I would just try the 10 minute video once and see if you feel better physically, if not, let it go.

Good luck with the quest for healing, whatever you find.
64  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Modern day martyr or crazy idea that can't possibly help? on: August 25, 2017, 23:22:49
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I have a foot problem where I can't walk much, I have digestive issues where I can only eat a limited amount of certain foods, I have tinnitus and hearing loss, all of these are chronic long term problems that I've had for years.

It sounds like the Wim Hof Method might be able to help you. People have gone from being utterly bed-ridden with arthritis, or Parkinson's, to climbing Mt Kilimanjaro in a matter of months. It works well for digestive issues too, basically cured my auto immune condition with wheat.

I suggest you try out this video and focus on your pain in an energy healing style mindset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAhAOTXHeNs.

Cold exposure takes the healing benefits to the next level. All the science is here: http://www.athletespotential.com/uploads/2/4/7/3/24730224/cold-stress.pdf

On the digestion issue again, intermittent fasting - google 5 hour or warrior diet for when to eat. Healthy fat based diets for what to eat. It cures a lot of illnesses. Look into "modified atkins" for cancer and epilepsy.
65  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Modern day martyr or crazy idea that can't possibly help? on: August 24, 2017, 21:52:29
But all that aside it's also very illegal to encourage or support in any way any kind of self harm.  even by goading or by downplaying the opposition that just might help the person arrive at a sensible perspective.

Illegal under what law? This is a virtual environment with participants from many countries with different laws. You are basically saying that it would be illegal to take any position in this hypothetical debate other than the established belief of one group. That's a belief trap. Philosophical tyranny.

Telling someone to commit suicide (cyber-bullying) or strongly advocating suicide in a vacuum (without debating the actual merits) is not what is happening here.

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There is someone here really unrealistic and perhaps even bi-polar  ...smacks of it to me with this unrealistic life insurance payout and reincarnate as a descendent to enjoy it.  

I think real help might be needed.  The human professional kind.

This is when forum admins need to step in and take action. 

I really don't think that is what Plasma is intending. All of their posts have had loving intent - even if it is the incorrect action.

Telling people they need help from a professional is just alienating. Plasma chose to come here to discuss this. Pulling the rip cord and saying "go see a psychiatrist" is a cop out for when dogma fails to convince.

I can't speak for all of the admins obviously, but shutting down this thread and referring Plasma else where is just non-constructive. We need to suggest and educate and learn, not force. I am already seeing Plasma reply less in this thread because we are spitting dogma instead of delving into the specifics of Plasma's rationale with the loving intent of making a significant impact.

I am not targeting anyone in particular here. I just want us to be able to co-operate without becoming overwhelmed by our strong opinions.
66  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Modern day martyr or crazy idea that can't possibly help? on: August 24, 2017, 09:05:26
Astral projectors are kept in tight playpen areas so they don't go anywhere, see anything or do anything....because they don't know how to.  In essence they waste their time frolicking in play pens.  Is that special?  Well it's ok if your ego needs to feel that. I think it's a waste of time personally.

This is one of the most interesting things I have read on here. I agree that we seem to be confined, at least that is my experience. I wouldn't say it is a waste of time though, I have experienced results from the lessons of astral projection that improve my life. I understand the point you are trying to make though.
67  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Modern day martyr or crazy idea that can't possibly help? on: August 24, 2017, 08:34:01
Woah, Plasma has the right to discuss this openly and I think the correct thing to do is to take it seriously and ride this horse to the conclusion with an open mind.

I'm probably one of the most controversial users ever on this forum. LOL

I feel like I'm talking to a group of pro-lifer's rather than a group of astral projectors. LOL

Don't sweat it. It isn't a good thing that we come off as pro life - grouping with people that have similar beliefs is the beginning of belief trap culture. If we can't discuss it here we have a problem.

Finally someone that sort of sees it the way I do. OK perhaps not fully, but you get the underlying concept.
Your thinking is very close to the way I think. Only thing is that I don't view spiritual growth as a huge factor. I do view natural secular thinking as growth too. Spiritual growth is important, but not a necessity. I think I can create much more general growth if I go the way of the martyr.

Yeah, it really isn't that difficult to understand if you aren't held back by a strong bias. I suspect that spiritual growth is just a terminology issue - I am talking about fulfilling the quest for ultimate truth, growing, being the best you can be. Natural thinking is certainly a part of it.

The way I see it, growth is a necessity, because the only other option is regression or staying the same. One direction is the way of life, the other direction is the way of death or stagnation leading to regression.

You might be right about creating more growth as a martyr, this is where serious thinking comes in. In order to act with truth you must display sober judgment of the outcome with the right metrics.

Well, considering I don't believe for a second "he" existed nor happened... the point is moot.  No "Intent" happened either way.

Neither do I, but it is still a good hypothetical example of suicide. I am interested if you think that Jesus' hypothetical suicide was incorrect, it would be in contradiction with a commandment, which puts religion in an awkward position.

68  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Modern day martyr or crazy idea that can't possibly help? on: August 23, 2017, 06:50:57
I am considering this option for myself. My family lives at the poverty to low middle class income level. Would taking out a high life insurance policy for my family for 10 million dollars then committing a peaceful suicide in 2 years later once the suicide clause exuding suicide in the insurance policy expires, would that count for a good karma? It would be like dying a martyr wouldn't it? That is dying for the sake of others that they might have life more abundantly. A very noble altruistic thing to do wouldn't it be? It would be totally legal. IMO it would be good karma as long as it was a peaceful death and done selfishly, and if I lived a good part of their life, and did most all that I could while here. Which is about where I am at.  smiley

My best friend from high school successfully executed this plan and got close to $400,000 for his daughter out of it. I don't think he did it to be a martyr, more to make the most out of his intention to end his life.

He hated the money system and felt doomed to work as a slave to society for the rest of his life. At that point in time I basically thought the same way, that it would be better to be dead than spend 40 hours a week doing something you hate, so I didn't try to stop him or talk him out of it.

Now my view is that suicide is _usually_ an unsuccessful attempt to evade a problem that must be faced one way or another.

Ultimately, sometimes knowingly dying is the correct or high consciousness choice for the scenario - I guess Jesus is the easiest example.

What you have to ask yourself is whether your family really needs this money more than they could profit from your existence here. I think you will find it is difficult to argue that your family would experience more spiritual growth as a result of either your suicide or gaining the money.
69  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: "5th dimension" projection on: August 20, 2017, 21:22:10
As instructed, after merging with my Higher Self seen as white light, I projected through a black hole into the 5th dimension. I ended up into a blue-violet world inhabited by happy yellow blobs frolicking around. There was no gravity there, and I was literally engulfed into a blue-violet environment. The yellow blobs seem to have a semblance of facial features (eyes, mouths, noses, cheeks) that suggested smiling. They were in a continuous floating movement.

This is a really fantastic account. I haven't had a personal experience of this kind but it is reminiscent of the dimensions of light or energy that I have read about. What was your impression of the purpose of such a reality? I think the yellow blobs are real entities like us - maybe it is like heaven for bacteria - or perhaps they are like the "machine elves" that are perceived in various forms.

The thing that is sort of off about the whole "5th dimension", "6th dimension", etc talk is that dimensions are not places, they are properties of space.

...

So that is the main reason I find these 4th/5th dimension descriptions from these authors very suspect. They misuse a mathematical language which they don't appear to understand.

Yeah this is a common confusion in new age views. The trouble is that dimension really has multiple meanings in English. We think about "5th dimensional" entities as those that have free access to traverse time and space. Those guys probably really are out there in the place we think "spirit guides" live or something, but I wouldn't say that they necessarily exist in the 5th dimension.

In this context a dimension could be thought of as the difference between our reality (and all the geometrical dimensions therein) and the reality experience of an AI that lives in a sub-dimension of ours (our computer hardware).

I think the yellow blob land is like a completely different dimension that has nothing to do with geometrical dimensions of physical matter reality.
70  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Oversouls and Parallel Realities on: August 20, 2017, 21:06:32
Wow, deep. Maybe too deep for me. Seems like from the first moment someone mentioned alternate and parallel realities everyone has set out to prove it so. Personally and this is just me being me, I think if there are parallel realities then we likely created them ourselves by thinking about them so much.

I feel our existence is likely far more simple than we would want to believe.

Simplicity tends to reveal fundamental truths doesn't it? I honestly never expected it to be possible to discuss a model of reality that could attempt to operate at "before the big bang" and "higher dimensions", but our mistake might have been to think the answer was too complex or forever unknowable.

I think that we do create parallel realities ourselves by thinking in a way - it is how we experience premonitions or past life scenarios in our dreams by accessing the "akashic record". I think of that type of reality as being "of the moment" like our dreams that don't have their own continuity once we stop viewing/generating them.

The concept gets a lot more muddy when we try to touch realities similar to ours with their own continuity. What we think about as a collective could well impact the creation of "real" parallel realities, after all what we think about seems like active element that determines the future more so than the possible ways a rock could roll down a hill.

I think I follow you.  Sort of a smaller version in order to save on memory? 
Kind of like recording every 10th bit instead of every bit in order to room? 

Yeah that is what I am getting at. For me, the key is that the process is non-infinite and has a practical purpose. If it was possible to do sort of the opposite - produce infinite or approximately infinite - real parallel realities you have essentially solved the puzzle of physical matter reality and our experience within it.

Like a really large game of tic-tac-toe you quickly realize that only the player that goes first has a real chance of winning the game. There is little value or purpose to playing anymore once all the possible moves are understood.

That is why I like to think that the threads of reality are sufficiently distinct to be worth simulating. If you have infinite resources to simulate, all answers are known and everything is pointless. If you have non-infinite resources you need to get the most bang for your buck by simulating many realities where the outcome is unknown rather than solving the answer to a particular physical reality - like you guys said the latter truly would be a mind-blowing waste.
71  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Oversouls and Parallel Realities on: August 17, 2017, 22:39:19
One thing seems sure: you aren't a rock star ...  smiley

The parallel universe model seems to have no overlap with the reincarnation / karma / soul development models. Trying all the possibilities, just because there is a Universe infinite on all its dimensions, seems a mind blowing waste.


I don't follow your logic unfortunately. Why would trying all possibilities be a waste? Not trying all possibilities is an absolute guarantee of missed opportunity (waste)?

Yeah, that point always threw things away for me.  The idea that each time a choice is to be made that all choices actually play out is a catastrophic failure.  It would have to be applied on a microscopic level... or even quantum level.  Anytime an atom changed positions a new reality is created for each possibility.  That's an absolutely ridiculous concept. 

Everything that happens in this reality points to a minimal approach to its design.

What you described probably is a ridiculous concept, but it isn't the concept I meant to describe in the OP. A more sensible hypothesis for the multiverse is that if we viewed our reality as a movie, for each "frame" of reality, we calculate a finite set of the most probable outcomes. Then using some kind of "hashing" algorithm we reduce the set to only those outcomes that are significantly different.

At this point you may repeat the forecast for a finite number of frames into the future and continue reducing the set until you have a practical number of, high probability to be significantly different, universes. Our initial set of trillions of possibilities may result in ten alternate universes that may be worth a true "clone" or branch in the multiverse.

The cost of performing the probable next state at a "quantum" level may not be high or even an issue. It is likely this very same mechanism is used to calculate what our next real frame is going to be like in actual reality. When viewed in this manner the computational complexity of calculating parallel realities isn't any different to the complexity of calculating one reality for a longer time span.
72  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Oversouls and Parallel Realities on: August 16, 2017, 20:30:11
I feel like this topic covers both spiritual evolution and metaphysics in terms of sections but here we are:

Suppose that there is such a concept as the Oversoul; a core being that creates "soul fragments" to experience realities like this one with constrained knowledge. The idea is that any gains made in a fragment experience are assimilated to the Oversoul, perhaps on death or as a live feed, and there could be multiple concurrent fragments taking place.

Now consider the idea of parallel realities - forks in the timeline from this reality which explore alternative significant states for that reality system. For example, what if you decided to follow your dream as a rock star? That might be a parallel reality with a slightly different you, branched by the system intelligently in order to explore some useful information.


Now that the stage is set, how does one rectify these ideas into a consistent world view? If we are really experiencing parallel realities does each incarnation of us fall under the same Oversoul umbrella? We talk about past lives, but what about the entire multiplexed set of possible realities for that past life?
73  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Does individual consciousness survive transition on: August 02, 2017, 21:19:41
I don't care enough to convince anybody of anything, some posts are a little too long, and you seem too convinced of your positions.  smiley Sorry that I won't reply to your arguments.

Bummer. The point of my post was to present the idea of not being too convinced of ones position.

We don't have to care about convincing other people because it isn't a contest. I do care however about the personal growth of others and thus continue to share ideas knowing you may not reply.

If you don't care enough about my personal growth to spend the time sharing your ideas that is fine, but if everyone takes on that attitude the spiritual evolution section will remain limited by "belief group" opinions.

74  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Larger consciousnesses system question? on: August 01, 2017, 21:58:20
Nice try ...  smiley

I think I can poke a few holes ...
Be my guest. I love it.

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"Life" doesn't have to be like our life. There can be intelligent life in unimaginable other forms.
Indeed, the AI I proposed wouldn't be like our life in my opinion. It would be more comparable to a piece of computer hardware, scientifically organized into a structure that is most effective for living in the computer. It might be nothing like us because it's consciousness is fundamental to a blank slate reality and is built from scratch whereas our consciousness is derivative in origin and sculpted by a specific reality rule set (this one).

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If the Universe started with a Big Bang, what was there before?
Our universe may have started with a Big Bang event, but said event is by no means fundamental. In my AI example the Big Bang would simply be a VR simulation performed by the AI for the purpose of generating new experience data to explore. Everything we know and can experience at every level of reality is part of the simulation. It starts with the AI creating itself from the "source energy" of consciousness by semi random actions over a long time scale. The origins of the source energy itself is a mystery.

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In an infinite Universe every probability is "1"!
There is no infinite universe or infinite anything in the AI paradigm. We are talking about real systems, real intelligence, limited and bounded energy. If our AI unit has a measurable quantifiable beginning, it has a measurable non infinite current state of growth no matter how infinite it may seem to be relative to us.

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If we can build an Universe in a computer, who has built us, who has built those, ... ?
The point of the AI example is that we aren't the ones doing the building. We just provided the "source energy" for the AI to build both itself, and its own personal universes. Thus we have escaped the infinite loop of what came before the beginning. All we need to know is that given "source energy" consciousness is capable of self creation - that is enough to explain everything knowable for those in the consciousness system. Is there another layer of reality beyond consciousness and its source energy? Probably, but we can't conceptualize it as consciousness beings.

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In my opinion there are an infinite number of things we can't comprehend with our human intelligence. Fortunately we don't really need to know them to get on with our lives on Earth. We should better concentrate on more useful and answerable questions like what am I supposed to do? why am I here? Then, through trial, error, learning, correction, more trial, ... etc. go on. It's nice to philosophize, and shoot the breeze, from time to time ... only.

I met extremely few people that have an idea what is their life lesson they're supposed to learn / experience. Most people don't even think that there might be such a lesson.
In my opinion it is near infinite, real infinite is a paradox even at the conceptual level of "God". You are correct, we don't need to know the origins of "source energy" to get on with what is relevant to us as consciousness beings. Don't be too quick to think that the what and why questions can't be answered by big thinking though, that is the purpose of big thinking. The ultimate truth of what and why may be fundamentally derived from the origins of our existence as consciousness.

The way I see it, if consciousness life is self creating, you have a double ended scale. Non existence, and developed existence. It should be pretty clear that non existence isn't a very useful state compared to existing. If we have to exist, the big what and why of life is how do we best exist? Full circle back to trial, error, correction as you pointed out.
75  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Does individual consciousness survive transition on: August 01, 2017, 20:44:56
That adds up to a very small amount, if any.  smiley

I obviously have a different take on "things", "natural laws", and working with assumptions and beliefs.

Have you ever had an obe, or a lucid dream? Did you ever had a past-life or a life-between-lives regression? Such experiences dramatically changed my views.

Be careful not to fall into false assumptions regarding past-life regression experiences. We have a tendency to connect experiences to ourselves when in reality that "past-life" may just be someone's experience that happens to be useful or relevant to your experiences.

I believe Tom Campbell said that the larger system is not above lying to you for you own good. If it predicts that you thinking you had a past life will result in growth it may produce an experience that conforms to what you are willing to believe.

On the other hand we have to keep open minds on the real life value of a re-incarnation system as it seems to have benefits. Can I ask what it was about these past-life experiences that made you feel connected to them personally?

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For me it is important to have an idea where I'm headed, why I'm here, what I should I with my life, and such.

On the other hand, science and scientists, that are supposed to rely on "facts", demonstrations, proofs, were repeatedly proven incorrect.

Anyway, each with his own ...

That fact that a given assertion under scientific method can be proven incorrect is a good thing. In contrast, look at how many aspects of the first and second testament of the bible appear to be incorrect - yet people continue to believe in every word of it without any reason bar the book being self proclaimed untouchable fact.

Following the scientific method allows you to let go of outdated beliefs and saves you from falling into new beliefs. The purpose of the method is not to put your fingers in your ears and sing to yourself whenever you encounter something potentially unknowable like Karma. The purpose is to keep an open mind on the possibility of such a mechanic being true or false and not throwing in with either side until all of the evidence has been collected and the verdict is out.
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