Hello I dont know if many of you know who I am or remember me. I was a member a year ago here (by the same nickname I am using now).  To everyone who remembers me hello, to those who have now just heard of me nice to meet you. I am posting two articles I wrote a year ago here, some of you may have already read them, in that case read again. I have spent the last year implementing the same methods I give in the articles and I have an amazing amount of mental control and have progressed so much and I attribute it to everything I explain in these articles. Give the ideas expressed herein a chance and you might be surprised. With that being said here you go.....

Wake initiated lucid dreams and astral projections from non rem sleep with consciousness intact.

(1)

For the many people who try to have lucid dreams and astral projections, most methods described by other's whom experience the lucid or obe state are for the most part misleading, not intentionally of course. Rather the experience itself is so complex that they lose sight of how they accomplished it in the first place. That and what they do and their thought processes leading up to the experience is in itself hard as hell to explain and rightfully so.

I have experienced lucid dreams for the first time a few months ago as a direct result of the way I try to induce astral projections. Before I thought I had experienced the perfect state for projection but it wasn't until now I know the exact state to be in. I haven't used this state yet to project because at the time my intentions were on having lucid dreams. I set out to see what occurs between dreams and being awake, meaning can one be conscious during regular non-rem sleep? Having accomplished this I can say for a fact yes. As to what occurs in this regular sleep, I can explain this too.

Once fully asleep (non-rem) with an active consciousness I felt all pre-projection symptoms. Vibrations accompanied by a roaring in the ears and a feeling of pressure in the ears when the roaring sound occured.
Also in the head there is a shocking kind of feeling that spreads throughout the body and with that feeelings of movement may occur. All these added up is what I know as the vibrational state.

So the state to be in is regular non-rem sleep with your consciousness intact. The phrase mind awake/body asleep sounds right and technically is, but seems a little misleading. You yourself are sleeping when people think of body asleep they think "oh the body is numb", well its sort of correct but theres more to it than mere numbness.

I am sorry that I have to go through explainations first before telling you the method I used, if thats what you want to call it. You must know my explainations as to what the mind goes through because most people do not describe it well enough or only give you methods that do not work or they work but you dont know hotw to think with control or you cant control your thought process. I will give my account of what I did and what my thought processes were doing at the time.

(2)

Alright having explained what I thought needed to be said I will move on. I am not sure if this had anything to do with what happened but I will go ahead and say it anyway. I was half tired and just as equally awake. I had only three and a half or so hours to sleep before I had to leave for work. I decided to use those approx. hours to sleep, anytime I go to sleep I attempt projection and while I try I just fall asleep while trying so its just a part of my sleep pattern now.

So anyway I slept for 3-3 1/2 hours, woke up drove to pick my wife up. Came home spent sometime online, then laid down to sleep/project for another 3 1/2 hours. I laid down and let my mind wander and I kept my thinking pattern going normally until I notice I am in what I call stage 2., which is where sounds have an impact on my body. In short when a real sound occurs in my room I feel it in my body, a slight cushy,win,electric wave will hit my body. Now if this works in my favor that electric shock feeling stays and pulsates this is when I cease and slow my thoughts down and I dont pay attention or too much attention to this feeling. The more I ignore it the stronger it becomes, sometimes I will have to focus on strengthening it, but for the most part I dont have to do anything other than ignore it.

Ideally this shock feeling will spread to the rest of my body and give the impression of being electrocuted, more or less like when I am at a dentist and have the nitrious oxide mask on is what it feels like, but its a really deep body shock feeling. With this sometimes I feel spinning sensations or sinking sensation, with the spinning I feel positive and negative g's but not everytime.

Now is when to stop all thought bud dont lose your consciousness either. ONce I see hypnagogic images and hear sounds I call this stage 3, and this is when most everyone loses consciousness when they are going to sleep normally. Since all this occurs so close to sleep and even mixes or overlaps sleep most if not all of these sensations are forgotten with dreams upson awakening, unless you have good dream recal even then some are still lost. So to recap I am feeling a electric type sensation and seeing visuals. At this point I can do two things let myself go deeper or pay closer attention to the images thus also lowering myself further into sleep only in a controlled way.

(3)

What happened at this point is the sensations already felt intensify or go from moderate to concrete occuring non-stop and pulsating. From here I may drift in and out of consciousness, but I realized this is not what you want. Grasp your consciousness and keep it. What happened next slightly confused me. I still had full awareness but never the less I blacked out (losing consciousness/awarenesss momentarily). It may have been seconds or minutes no longer than 4 minutes, because I mapped out the times from each dream (percepted times and it matches up with real time spent sleeping minus the 20 minutes used getting to this state. When I woke up or I should say gained consciousness but the effect was I woke up in a dream. I dont mean I was dreaming and gained lucidity I mean there was no dream till I woke up consciously then it sort of formed around me (the dream environment).

At first I stood up and said "what the hell happened" then "am I projecting or did I come to in a lucid state"
I looked around and then tested control, and I came to the conclusion its a lucid state. I walked around in this huge empty room. There were windows, nice white walls and a wooden tile floor. The i-beams were a give away this was just a nice office room within an industrial building. I then said "well this is no fun, there are no people around" It was amazing I awaoke in a dream that had no signs of life, just dead silence, no monsters, no people nothing but me. I said time to liven this up, I noted filling this room with people and desks would do it. Then instantly there were desks, people, sculptures and all sorts of office [edit] around. I then said a phrase I say in real life when I accomplish something amazing which is "Bickety bam" which is one of the hundreds of non sensical things I say on a daily basis.

(4)

I looked around there were more men than women so I thought "more women" with that thought there were knocks at the office door and women entered. I looked around and marveled at my creative environment I have made saying "Holy sh**, I am more in control than in my first two lucid dreams" Okay what I have to say next is the most amazing discovery I made today. I used thoughts or methods from some people but the way I applied them probably hasnt been done before. I want to say first that I appreciate everyone that has read my article this far and in the next few pages I will explain something that I havent seen anywhere else or heard about, so you wont be disappointed. Tust me. I appreciate it because I have taken my time in analyzing my lucid state and noted exactly how I achieved it, and what I went through mentally and the sensations that occured. Then I came to work where I am taking my time to write this out page by page then once I go home I will be typing this out word for word only for others' benefits.

Okay now onto why I wanted to go lucid. The last time I had a lucid dream at one point I seen it start to fade, I focused to stop it from doing so over and over again. But whatwould happen if I let it fade? I know what happens for most people, the dream starts to fade and along with the dream the consciousness fades out until you go unconscious and into a regular non rem sleep with no consciousness and for some people they wake up. but what if you let the dream fade and kept your consciousness? Heres what happened, I found my eyes (physical eyes) werent moving at all. The dream was completely gone and I was completely conscious still, with full and complete awareness of my body and the sensations of the vibes were still felt. I knew and felt the exact position of my physical body. As far as sight, well nothing but complete darkness. Immediately I knew what happened and what this state was it was just normal non rem sleep only I have my consciousness going. It then suddenly hit me like a punch in the face. I researched a lot of experiements with obe'ers, including Robert Monroes and at the times he said he was out of the body, the eeg and technician observing said he was in a seemingly normal non rem sleep. Everyone I looked into the eeg and technician concluded the same, along with some weird eeg readouts that they werent sure of what it meant.

So the projectors were able to relax so well and firmly grasp their consciousness but the let the subconscious take over all body functions, but kept their consciousness in control over their mind. In short its a conscious non rem sleep which is exactly regular sleep with your consciousness intact. NOw here I am in complete darkness, feeling vibes,hearing roaring in my ears, feeling pressure in my ears with the roaring. I said "this is the perfect state in which projection would be simple."

(5)

It came (projection) so easy in fact at that thought I started to feel my legs and arms start to rise, I said "get back into my body" referring to my limbs and they stopped, and I felt a sinking/falling sensation in them, my focus at the time was mastering the lucid state. Once again here I was in darkness, so I wanted to see if I can bring a lucid dream about by thought and focus (keep in mind I am in non-rem sleep) and nothing happens. I remembered some one told me when your lucid in a dream if you see it starting to fade if you spin you will stabalize the dream. I thought well I am not in a dream though, can this work to bring a dream about from normal sleep. The answer amazed me. Even thought I was not in a dream I could spin around. It was more like I was spinning my awareness but when I spun I could feely myself spinning.

I had no pre-conceived idea aslo what if anything would happen by doing this. To my surprise while I was spinning a shard appeard, it was a fragment like a really thin but long piece of a picture, a long rectangle with very small width. The more I spun the more shards appeared, connecting to previous shards. I could see a picture forming before my own eyes, a picture I was not making. I was only spinning. I seen half the picture was finished and I wanted to see what would happen if I stopped mid-way. So I stopped and it started to fade away. I let it fade away and all I could see was darkness again. I said "okay lets try that again"

So I spin and spin, one by one dream shards came up. At first all I could see was backs of seats and they were red. Soon I seen two rows of these seats. Then rows and rows of seats,finally I see a movie screen. Then the picture was complete. It was a movie theatre, at first I could see all the individual outlines of the shards then it smooths over and I am left with a very highly detailed picture of a movie theatre. I said "Now what do I do with this picture?" I came up with an idea to push my consciousness closer. So I move closer to it till I am up against it, I move a little closer then looked around. I look all the way around me and see that I am now in the movie theatre, it was all around me. I said to myself "I am in the fuc*ing picture!!" I jumped up and down because I was so excited. I noted everything and I was in this theatre all by myself.I created people, then pointed my attention to the screen as there was actually a movie playing, and it was a real life movie too. I wont say which movie it would be too cliche.

(6)

I shifted my attention to the people then back to the screen. Now the movie was gone and replaced by a guy talking to a girl it looked like it was a girl movie. I said to myself "can I do this again?"
Referring to getting back to regular non-rem sleep and back to a lucid dream. Once the dream starts to fade I went about my mental technique (explained later) to keep my awareness/consciousness and I was back into the darkness and once again aware of my real physical body and its position. Thinking I couldn't possibly repeat what I just pulled off, I tried it again and to my surprise the dream shards come again. ONce again I could enter the finished pictures. ANd each time I could let the dream fade on its own and keep my consciousness.

I repeated the process till I had 6 lucid dreams each feeling like they lasted a half hour. I sat in darkness whie noting to myself what I had just done and accomplished at that thought my alarm went off. My alarm doesnt make any noise it has a wire connecting a black box, you put the box under your pillow and it vibrates when the alarm time comes. I sat in darkness and said well time to get up and sat up. It was so fluid, seamless. NOe trouble sitting up in normal non rem sleep with consciousness. No apparent paraylsis, no trouble and no lapse in consciousness, which enabled me not to forget any detail of what I had just went through. I set the alarm approx. for 3 and a half hours, it took me about 20 minutes to get to what I call stage 3, and about 5 minutes to come to in a lucid dream, each dream felt like a half hour, there were 6 lucid dreams all together. Add it up and you get 3 hours and 25 minutes almost exactly what I set my alarm for.

What I accomplished was lucid dreaming about 3 hours non stop by will alone. It was so easy I could of done it for eight hours easily. No lapse in consciousness between dreams, which was 6. My physical body felt refreshed and my mind not tired at all either.

So to recap, lay down get to the state I call stage 3 (explained earlier) then keep consciousness till you black out while slowly lowering yourself deeper and deeper. Note: You may drift in and out of consciousness, do not confuse this with blacking out. If you dift in and out you will now because you and your body will still be awake, when you fight to keep conscious and get to the breaking point you will not be able to hold on and you will black out. when you come to you will wake up in a dreamscape and you will automatically be lucid no need for reality checks you should kjnow why you are there and what you were trying to do before you ended up there.

(7)

Now you are lucid in a dream. What you want to do is let it fade away on its own do not force it to fade. So you may be stuck there for a half hour or so, make the best of it. You may need to know how not to get too involved in this dream, if you do and get too comfortable you will lose your consciousness. What I do to avoid this is keep and internal dialogue going constantly to keep using my consciousness/awareness exercised so they are firmly held. For example if I am walking (I will either think it or say it, its the same thing either way) I will say I am walking, noting what I see along the way. I do this non stop in all my lucid dreams.

Now once it starts to fade out keep sayihng to yourself "ok the dream is fading" and note the things that are disappearing "there goes the wall, the white wall"..etc. This keeps your awareness/consciousness going while the dream fades and prevents it from being swept away as well. After all is said and done you will be by yourself in the blackness. YOur body awareness will kick in and you will feel the vibrations. This state once again is normal non rem, non dreaming sleep only you managed to smuggle your consciousness with you.

From here you can project or go into a wake initiated lucid dream. Projection from here is easy and self explainatory. All you have to do is affirm you are floating up, or just say now I will get out of my body, or even try to picture your room and you will automatically see through the closed eyelids (well for me anyway it does this). It will happen easily. The hard thing is gettihng to a lucid drea, which not many people have methods of doing this without the possibility of either projecting or waking up, but I do. Just spin, spin your awareness clockwise (to the right) as if you were spinning yourself in the physical over and over at a moderate rate, either you dreamscape will form around you or you will have shards show up like I did everytime, if the later happens keep spinning till the shards form a complete picture and then stop they will seemingly seal and a vibrant, highly detailed, vivid image will be the result. Walk into it or push your consciousness into it. Slowly look around and you will see you are now in the picture, it now becomes your dreamscape.

If what I call the dream shards appear from spinning email (email at bottom) me and tell me about it. Each time the dream fades repeat the spinning process once back in non rem sleep. You can repeat this over and over. Give these instructions a try and keep me posted. You can have better odds if you do as I did and set an alarm for 3 and a half hours from the time you started. If you are too awake it will take longer to hit stage 3. If you are too tired you will hit stage 3 really fast. However either way you will get there regardless, if you are 1/2 tired and 1/2 awake it will be just right and easy to do. Each step in this article is vital so read carefully.

Notes: In between dreams and in non rem sleep do not attempt to focus on or move your physical body or you will end the sleep period and not be able to induce another lucid dream. Also keep repeating the dream processes I mentioned for more dreams after about 5-6 dreams your alarm should go off you will have a choice to either continuing the dreams or wake up if you choose to keep going you take a chance of losing consciousness in the lucid dreams and you may forget everything if you do lose consciousness in the dreams. So I would chose if I were just trying this for the first time to wake up like I did in order to not forget the entire experience. Another thing is dont use headphones or listen to hemi-sync audio while trying my methods in this article and dont use ear plugs as you will miss natural sounds that occur in your room or house or outside that might trigger the electrocution sensation that helps in the whole process I explained here. Now for the last note when you are in non-rem non-dreaming sleep with your consciousness and you are spinning your awareness around no thought to what the resulting picture should be apparent. Actually the only conscious effort is put into the spinning itself and just observing the shards or forming dreamscape, dont try to make the resulting picture any different just move torwards and into it and then you make the changes you want to once it is your dreamscape and you are in it. (End of first article)

Article #2 Further understanding of the environments (which I called lucid dreamscapes in the first article). Aspects of the self, and more on projection.

1.) New ways of thought

This article is being written for people like me - free thinkers. Free thinkers are people who challenge normal every day things, we challenge normal everyday concepts. We wish to make un-knowns into knowns by facing everything from a non -biased stand point. We realize for everon thing that there are more things we can learn from and about it. Even if its an everyday experience we know there is more we can learn about it.

We understand that the limitations of the physical need not dictate the level of our mind or influence its limitless abilities and infinite potential. Having said that let's get right into it. This writting is about lucid dreams and astral projections, but this whole article is for the most part centered around lucid dreams, aspects of consciously induced lucid dreams and naturally occuring lucid dreams. When one thinks of lucid dreams for the most part they think of dreams that you have complete control of. Which is right for the most part. Here is what I think when I hear the term lucid dreams. Lucid dreams are a direct connection to the subconscious with little to no filtering, there are two kinds of lucid dreams consciously induced or naturally occuring, a gateway to other states and the door way to conscious sleep (non-rem) - the lucid dream is the door that will let you consciously cross over to the aforementioned state (conscious sleep). I think of more than that but those are the basic forms of thought I go through.

Regular lucid dreamers experience what I call naturally occuring lucid dreams. They consciously conditioned theirselves to recognize what they call dream signs while they are deraming. Dream signs are things that might happen while in the dreams, things that normally wouldnt or couldnt happen in their phyiscal lives. An example of this is they are dreaming and see a person fly, the person floats with out support, they see this and right then they know they are dreaming resulting in a lucid dream. They consciously acknowledge they are dreaming and a fluctuation of consciousness occurs and from there they have conscious control and awareness. The fluctuation will also affect the dreamscape or environment itself forcing it into a high detailed,vivid, and more physical dream.

Regular lucid dreamers are completely content of their ability to control dreams, which is good thing. The problem with that is they never once think about other options or experiences they have concious access to. While some may devise ways of control in the lucid dreams that result in a longer lucid dream, they never once thought they have another option. They think the lengths of their lucid dreams are only limited to the lengths of their rem sleep cycles. They think that when a rem cycle ends it is the end of their lucid dream and when the dream fades away their consciousness is swept away also. While the last statement is true it doesnt mean there arent other options. Options they didnt know about or otions they originally thought were impossible. In this article I lay out the options I speak of, and along with it I will tell you how to have the options and how to experience them.

In these two articles, I dont hope people will read this and automatically believe me. What I hope is to pique your interest so that you will try and experience what I talk about for yourselves. I say these articles because this article is to be a companion for my walkthrough article on how to experience what I speak of. This article will contain things I didnt write in the first, and explainations of things I wrote in the other article to simplify it of rpeople who might not completely understand the first article. You may ask "why if what you say is true and it works, are you taking your time to tell others rather than keeping this to yourself?" I can tell you its not to profit heh. Well the reason is because I am not selfish what so ever. I iwsh to help others and by doing so maybe it will result in more research to be done on aspects of sleep and other experiences as well, such as astral projection. I want others to have access to their spiritual selves. When one hears spiritual they think of religion. Those two have nothing in common. Religion plays no role in these experiences. I am talking about being able to understand your origin and experience your true non-physical form, and have choices in the non-physical paths you can take. My last reason is because I love people. I am empathetic to those of us who feel lost or depressed by the pressures of the physical, when they needn't be. I will be honest there was a time I was in a way selfish. I was so absorbed and conditioned to the physical my ways of thought invilved nothing but the physical. I broke out of this cycle of thought when a very wise person named uri told me in an email not to focus on the physical aspects of the mind but more on the non-physical and to use my time to help others.

Of course at the time I didnt know what I know now. His very insightful and somewhat cryptic message set me onto a path I am on now, and it took me sometime to understand what is important. So now that I know a way I can help others, I will do just that.Once I uncover other unkowns and make them knowns, these forums you frequent will be the first places whom I will go wtih my new information.

So now you have a little insight to how much depth there is invovled what I would like each of you to ask yourselves is would you like to experience what I explained in my last article? Do you have the will to completely re-vamp your way of thought and your thinking processes?

The truth is so many of us are too caught up in our physical lives to have time or want to take the time to do any of these things. Once I knew the process and knew and realized teh mechanics I was able to experience what I explained in the last article my first try. Its true I practiced projection and lucid dreams for over five months little to no avail but I was blindly trying to do something I didnt understand, it was not till I come to a realization that I was able to completely understand. Once I understood, first try was all it took for me to experience what I always wanted to but couldnt. Heres what I have known but not understood. To project you need to lay there and get your body asleep keeping mind awake. At first I thought okay getting the body to sleep should be easy. I realized the person would have to go to sleep, regular non dreaming sleep consciously or within the beginning stages of this. Robert bruce said in his boook: Astral dynamics that if one finds himself/herself in sleeping paralysis a projection has already occured or is occuring. This is not always true as I can relate from my experiences. You can go from complete consciousness to a lucid dreamscape carefully traverse into non dreaming conscious sleep and at that point try to move and you will be paralyzed, then still seperate no problem as long as paralyses doesnt make you panic. I agree with Robert Bruce with just about everything else. Next topic will be what the differences are between natrual and induced lucid states.

2.) Differences between natural occuring lucid dreams and consciously induced lucid dreams (environments)

This topic will be exptremely short and straight forward. The first and most obvious difference between the two of these, is natrually occurring lucid dreams are when one becomes conscious in an already active dream. In this state the dreamscape already has people and things created by your subconscious. This state can become extremely chaotic causing the lucid dreamer to lose hi/her consciousness. With consciously induced lucid dreamscapes you do this from conscious non dreaming sleep. In this state once you enter your created environment you will be all there is, short of the environment itself. The reason for this is its a completely new/fresh environment that your subconscious dself never fooled with yet. Since you're conscious in this new environment your subconscious wont do anything with it at all unless you state the intention for it to cretae something, perhaps a person,people,art,drawing-anything you want it will create. This state is perfectly clear, its higher in detail-more than you can imagine, and has more uses than I can state here. This brings me to the next topic.

3.) Uses for the consciously induced environments as opposed to the naturally occuring.

In induced environments you can carry out what you originally set out to do without the distractions of people and other things that would be going on in a naturally occuring one.
If you are an artist who paints once in a induced environment state internally or externally (out loud) you want to see a remarkable painting and it will appear where ever your focus or attention is, like in referrence to in front of you on the ground or in your hands. It will be more intricate and amazing than you could ever conceive. Then study it, memorize it then traverse to non dreaming conscious sleep and once ou can physically start to feel your body sit up. Since you didnt lose consciousness you will remember everything perfectly. Not only will the painting your subconscious created be wonderful it will be symbolic- having an insightful message/meaning that can be interpreted, which adds all the
more beauty to it.

If you are the kind of person who likes to relax, once entering an induced environment you can just sit and relax and observe. This is the ideal state since there will be nothing exept you can the environment

If you draw you would do the same thing as a painter would, same thing goes for poems,songs, anything else artistic even sculptures.

If you wish to experiment, the induced environment is ideal as there will be no distractions, unless you consciously create some yourself to challenge yourself for whatever reason.

If you are like me and want to speak with your subconscious self or want to receive messages from it there are a number of ways I will state here.
1. If you want to view messages or subconscious images while the induced dreamscape hold the intention for a television to be created in which your subconscious will show you images or video to communicate with you or send a message to you. Take a seat and watch it.

2. If you want to conversate with your subconscious with actual spoken words hol dthe intention to create a person which will embody your subconsciousness, it will be a vehical for your subconscious self. The amazing thing about this test is it does work perfectly. Instead of your subconscious speaking to you through symbolic images it may speak to you directly yet in symbolic speech, it will be normal speech but have great symbolic meaning.

If you enjoy sexual intercourse this can be done too just hold the intention of creating your ideal partner and your subconscious will create him/her, or more if thats what you want. you will notice that when you create people your subconscious doesnt create drones or mindless bodies, each person has his or her own personality, phyical attributes, likes and disklikes. If you do not approach those you created they will go do their own thing, and even converse with one another. If you hol dthe intention for them to do something they will do it. If you tell them to out loud without holding the intention internally they may not do what you say, holding internally the intetion is key. Another side note is the people you create here in the induced environment cant bring about new things in the dreamscape or create unless you tell them to do so. If you create a body/vehical for your subconscious he/her will be able to bring about things in the environment as him/her has as much control as you do, but it wont be distracting. If you want him/her to leave it will no problem, usually.

I have listed many things you can do from here, but there are millions of possible applications. Be creative and you may leanr and experience very interesting things.

4.) My personal experience with consciously induced environments

Here I will state just two of my experiences. this way you can decide if this is something you may want to experience, and so you may know what kinds of things to expect.

My very first experience: I lay still for about 15 minutes, on my back breathing through my nose. I then hear a click caused by my heater. The click occurs in th eheater and a second or half second later an impact feeling hits my head resulting from the sound in my room, a fuzy feeling along with an electricity type of shock sweeps from my head to my feet. I pay no attention to these sensations. Then the electric type shocks just keep occuring till its one steady electrocution type of sensation. The hypnagogic visuals start coming, once they start to occur more I pay a little attention to them, thus lowering myself deeper. I hit a breaking point, my consciousness feels like it wants to slip away but I get a good grip and dont give up. Instantly I black out, what feels like a second later I find myself in a big office. It feels as thought I am physically waking up. I look around. THe floors were tiled wooden floors. The walls were white. There were windows that revealed outside. I looked around, this office was completely empty. I first thought I might liven this up. Once I knew about how many people I wnated, I held the intention to create and they just appeared, along with deks, sculptures, amongst other office stuff. I noted these sculptures were complex with the most intricate designs I have even seen.

I noticed a few guys looking at a girl. I realized there were almost all guys with only a few girls. So I said "they need more women" and held the intention to create more women. The very second I held the intention there was a knock at the door, and women entered. I marveled at each person and their personalities, each one was unique, had their own physical attributes, each had their own likes and dislikes. They went about and did their own thing and even conversated with one another. I admired everything I was able to create for a while. I wanted to see if I could order them around, while holding the intention for what I wanted them to do, I yelled "Get all this [edit] out of here." All the people scurried around helping each other take desks out. I laughed to myself because I was in complete control. I got kind of annoyed as they were taking so long to get everything out. I held the intention for them to disappear and they were gone, just like that. I sat in this office thinking things through, then perceived it was fading, I let it fade while exercising my consciousness/awareness by using internal dialogue. Once faded I then had physical body awareness and felt which position I lay. I tried to move my physical fingers and couldnt, I was paralyzed. I was in regular non dreaming sleep consciously.

I could go from conscious sleep to these environments back and forth non stop as long as I wanted and then get up physically once in conscious sleep by sitting up once I gained physical feeling without a break in consciousness. I will write one more short experience.

I was in conscious sleep, I spun my consciousness till the dream shards as I call them formed a picture. Like usual I push my consciousness forward, against it and into the picture. I was at a foot ball field andin the very first row in the stands. I knew exactly what it is I went to do as always I was alone. I created people in the stands for backround. I held the intention to create a body/vehical for my subconscious self to use to talk to me. A guy appeared in front of me. he looked extremely dazed. I kept asking who he was to make sure it wasnt just a regular person I created. Then the dazed look lifted off his face, now he looked at me like I was crazy.
He then said "You know nothing of being aware" my first reaction was to laugh since I was completely aware and in control so I said "I am the one who is aware here not you." He responded "I beg to differ" laughing to myself as I have never heard someone use that phrase. I watch him lift up his hand. A phone appears in h is hand and he hands it to me. I put it up to my right ear as I always do in the physical. First I heard just staticy backround noises, then moans,groans, and mumbles, and then a few words and broken words, all in my voice. It took me a few seconds and I knew what was going on. I was listening to my body sleeping in the physical and mumble as I talked in this environment, I said "what the f..." and before I finished that sentence my subconscious self smiled,winked and walked away despite me yelling for him to stop, he had as much control as I did.

These last few topics are giong to be really short so dont stop reading just yet.

5.) Limitations of each conscious state

Naturally occurring: These dreams were already set in motion before you become conscious, so sometimes they can be chaotic and distractive. The distractions and scenerios that were set in motion can cause most lucid dreamers to lose their consciousness as fast as they got it.
A lot of times they end all too soon.

Induced environments: you are alone, no distractions, and as far as my experience goese there are seemingly no limitations.

6.) Understanding the conscious and subconscious selves.

There are many lessons/books/articles that say the subconscious is a by product of the consciousness. The same sources would suggest the supression of the subconscious and list meanst to accomplish it. I always feel bad that people will be ignorant enough to believe those authors' naivity and ignorance to the point they would follow through with surpession of the subconscious self, or supression of any kind. Heres my understanding of the conscious and subconscious selves. While we live in physical bodies, our conscious and subconscious selves act on our physical bodies by means of a link that is not known to me. However they act on our bodies seperately and at different times. The reason for this seperation of the conscious and subconscious selves is if they were "whole" physical lives wouldnt be possible like this. While we are physically awake our subconcious will observe our experiences and while we are sleeping we will observe our subconscious self' experiences, in bits and pieces that we call dreams here. Our subconscious self is half of the whole we will call ourselves when we physically expire.

7.) Mastery of these conscious states

Once one can traverse from what I call conscious sleep, and get a feel for this state, he/she can practice going to and from environments. Once you can traverse from conscious sleep to the environments and back, you will be able to do this over and over again every attempt, unless too mentally fatigued. Some people dont really see the potential for this, this state (conscious sleep) is the gateway to projection and the environments I experience, possibly others that are not known to me. Think of it like a neutral state in which you can expand off of. Regular practice getting here should be attempted. Once successful try going from here to the environments and back to conscious sleep and so on etc.. Then once you get that down, go from conscious sleep to projection and once you get back project again, once you get that down there are limitless possiblities, and trust me with regular practice you will be able to no problem at all.

Notes: what I call the environments I may have called consciously induced lucid dreams as for lack of a better term. They are neither projections nor lucid dreams. You will know what I mean by this when you experience it.  Thanks,
                              T.L. (Retroact1ve@hotmail.com)

Wake initiated lucid dreams and astral projections from non rem sleep with consciousness intact.

                                                 (1)

For the many people who try to have lucid dreams and astral projections, most methods described by other's whom experience the lucid or obe state are for the most part misleading, not intentionally of course. Rather the experience itself is so complex that they lose sight of how they accomplished it in the first place. That and what they do and their thought processes leading up to the experience is in itself hard as hell to explain and rightfully so.

I have experienced lucid dreams for the first time a few months ago as a direct result of the way I try to induce astral projections. Before I thought I had experienced the perfect state for projection but it wasn't until now I know the exact state to be in. I haven't used this state yet to project because at the time my intentions were on having lucid dreams. I set out to see what occurs between dreams and being awake, meaning can one be conscious during regular non-rem sleep? Having accomplished this I can say for a fact yes. As to what occurs in this regular sleep, I can explain this too.

Once fully asleep (non-rem) with an active consciousness I felt all pre-projection symptoms. Vibrations accompanied by a roaring in the ears and a feeling of pressure in the ears when the roaring sound occured.
Also in the head there is a shocking kind of feeling that spreads throughout the body and with that feeelings of movement may occur. All these added up is what I know as the vibrational state.

So the state to be in is regular non-rem sleep with your consciousness intact. The phrase mind awake/body asleep sounds right and technically is, but seems a little misleading. You yourself are sleeping when people think of body asleep they think "oh the body is numb", well its sort of correct but theres more to it than mere numbness.

I am sorry that I have to go through explainations first before telling you the method I used, if thats what you want to call it. You must know my explainations as to what the mind goes through because most people do not describe it well enough or only give you methods that do not work or they work but you dont know hotw to think with control or you cant control your thought process. I will give my account of what I did and what my thought processes were doing at the time.
                                             
                                                  (2)

Alright having explained what I thought needed to be said I will move on. I am not sure if this had anything to do with what happened but I will go ahead and say it anyway. I was half tired and just as equally awake. I had only three and a half or so hours to sleep before I had to leave for work. I decided to use those approx. hours to sleep, anytime I go to sleep I attempt projection and while I try I just fall asleep while trying so its just a part of my sleep pattern now.

So anyway I slept for 3-3 1/2 hours, woke up drove to pick my wife up. Came home spent sometime online, then laid down to sleep/project for another 3 1/2 hours. I laid down and let my mind wander and I kept my thinking pattern going normally until I notice I am in what I call stage 2., which is where sounds have an impact on my body. In short when a real sound occurs in my room I feel it in my body, a slight cushy,win,electric wave will hit my body. Now if this works in my favor that electric shock feeling stays and pulsates this is when I cease and slow my thoughts down and I dont pay attention or too much attention to this feeling. The more I ignore it the stronger it becomes, sometimes I will have to focus on strengthening it, but for the most part I dont have to do anything other than ignore it.

Ideally this shock feeling will spread to the rest of my body and give the impression of being electrocuted, more or less like when I am at a dentist and have the nitrious oxide mask on is what it feels like, but its a really deep body shock feeling. With this sometimes I feel spinning sensations or sinking sensation, with the spinning I feel positive and negative g's but not everytime.

Now is when to stop all thought bud dont lose your consciousness either. ONce I see hypnagogic images and hear sounds I call this stage 3, and this is when most everyone loses consciousness when they are going to sleep normally. Since all this occurs so close to sleep and even mixes or overlaps sleep most if not all of these sensations are forgotten with dreams upson awakening, unless you have good dream recal even then some are still lost. So to recap I am feeling a electric type sensation and seeing visuals. At this point I can do two things let myself go deeper or pay closer attention to the images thus also lowering myself further into sleep only in a controlled way.

                                                  (3)

What happened at this point is the sensations already felt intensify or go from moderate to concrete occuring non-stop and pulsating. From here I may drift in and out of consciousness, but I realized this is not what you want. Grasp your consciousness and keep it. What happened next slightly confused me. I still had full awareness but never the less I blacked out (losing consciousness/awarenesss momentarily). It may have been seconds or minutes no longer than 4 minutes, because I mapped out the times from each dream (percepted times and it matches up with real time spent sleeping minus the 20 minutes used getting to this state. When I woke up or I should say gained consciousness but the effect was I woke up in a dream. I dont mean I was dreaming and gained lucidity I mean there was no dream till I woke up consciously then it sort of formed around me (the dream environment).

At first I stood up and said "what the hell happened" then "am I projecting or did I come to in a lucid state"
I looked around and then tested control, and I came to the conclusion its a lucid state. I walked around in this huge empty room. There were windows, nice white walls and a wooden tile floor. The i-beams were a give away this was just a nice office room within an industrial building. I then said "well this is no fun, there are no people around" It was amazing I awaoke in a dream that had no signs of life, just dead silence, no monsters, no people nothing but me. I said time to liven this up, I noted filling this room with people and desks would do it. Then instantly there were desks, people, sculptures and all sorts of office crap around. I then said a phrase I say in real life when I accomplish something amazing which is "Bickety bam" which is one of the hundreds of non sensical things I say on a daily basis.

                                                  (4)

I looked around there were more men than women so I thought "more women" with that thought there were knocks at the office door and women entered. I looked around and marveled at my creative environment I have made saying "Holy sh**, I am more in control than in my first two lucid dreams" Okay what I have to say next is the most amazing discovery I made today. I used thoughts or methods from some people but the way I applied them probably hasnt been done before. I want to say first that I appreciate everyone that has read my article this far and in the next few pages I will explain something that I havent seen anywhere else or heard about, so you wont be disappointed. Tust me. I appreciate it because I have taken my time in analyzing my lucid state and noted exactly how I achieved it, and what I went through mentally and the sensations that occured. Then I came to work where I am taking my time to write this out page by page then once I go home I will be typing this out word for word only for others' benefits.

Okay now onto why I wanted to go lucid. The last time I had a lucid dream at one point I seen it start to fade, I focused to stop it from doing so over and over again. But whatwould happen if I let it fade? I know what happens for most people, the dream starts to fade and along with the dream the consciousness fades out until you go unconscious and into a regular non rem sleep with no consciousness and for some people they wake up. but what if you let the dream fade and kept your consciousness? Heres what happened, I found my eyes (physical eyes) werent moving at all. The dream was completely gone and I was completely conscious still, with full and complete awareness of my body and the sensations of the vibes were still felt. I knew and felt the exact position of my physical body. As far as sight, well nothing but complete darkness. Immediately I knew what happened and what this state was it was just normal non rem sleep only I have my consciousness going. It then suddenly hit me like a punch in the face. I researched a lot of experiements with obe'ers, including Robert Monroes and at the times he said he was out of the body, the eeg and technician observing said he was in a seemingly normal non rem sleep. Everyone I looked into the eeg and technician concluded the same, along with some weird eeg readouts that they werent sure of what it meant.

So the projectors were able to relax so well and firmly grasp their consciousness but the let the subconscious take over all body functions, but kept their consciousness in control over their mind. In short its a conscious non rem sleep which is exactly regular sleep with your consciousness intact. NOw here I am in complete darkness, feeling vibes,hearing roaring in my ears, feeling pressure in my ears with the roaring. I said "this is the perfect state in which projection would be simple."

                                                  (5)

It came (projection) so easy in fact at that thought I started to feel my legs and arms start to rise, I said "get back into my body" referring to my limbs and they stopped, and I felt a sinking/falling sensation in them, my focus at the time was mastering the lucid state. Once again here I was in darkness, so I wanted to see if I can bring a lucid dream about by thought and focus (keep in mind I am in non-rem sleep) and nothing happens. I remembered some one told me when your lucid in a dream if you see it starting to fade if you spin you will stabalize the dream. I thought well I am not in a dream though, can this work to bring a dream about from normal sleep. The answer amazed me. Even thought I was not in a dream I could spin around. It was more like I was spinning my awareness but when I spun I could feely myself spinning.

I had no pre-conceived idea aslo what if anything would happen by doing this. To my surprise while I was spinning a shard appeard, it was a fragment like a really thin but long piece of a picture, a long rectangle with very small width. The more I spun the more shards appeared, connecting to previous shards. I could see a picture forming before my own eyes, a picture I was not making. I was only spinning. I seen half the picture was finished and I wanted to see what would happen if I stopped mid-way. So I stopped and it started to fade away. I let it fade away and all I could see was darkness again. I said "okay lets try that again"

So I spin and spin, one by one dream shards came up. At first all I could see was backs of seats and they were red. Soon I seen two rows of these seats. Then rows and rows of seats,finally I see a movie screen. Then the picture was complete. It was a movie theatre, at first I could see all the individual outlines of the shards then it smooths over and I am left with a very highly detailed picture of a movie theatre. I said "Now what do I do with this picture?" I came up with an idea to push my consciousness closer. So I move closer to it till I am up against it, I move a little closer then looked around. I look all the way around me and see that I am now in the movie theatre, it was all around me. I said to myself "I am in the fuc*ing picture!!" I jumped up and down because I was so excited. I noted everything and I was in this theatre all by myself.I created people, then pointed my attention to the screen as there was actually a movie playing, and it was a real life movie too. I wont say which movie it would be too cliche.

                                                  (6)
 
I shifted my attention to the people then back to the screen. Now the movie was gone and replaced by a guy talking to a girl it looked like it was a girl movie. I said to myself "can I do this again?"
Referring to getting back to regular non-rem sleep and back to a lucid dream. Once the dream starts to fade I went about my mental technique (explained later) to keep my awareness/consciousness and I was back into the darkness and once again aware of my real physical body and its position. Thinking I couldn't possibly repeat what I just pulled off, I tried it again and to my surprise the dream shards come again. ONce again I could enter the finished pictures. ANd each time I could let the dream fade on its own and keep my consciousness.

I repeated the process till I had 6 lucid dreams each feeling like they lasted a half hour. I sat in darkness whie noting to myself what I had just done and accomplished at that thought my alarm went off. My alarm doesnt make any noise it has a wire connecting a black box, you put the box under your pillow and it vibrates when the alarm time comes. I sat in darkness and said well time to get up and sat up. It was so fluid, seamless. NOe trouble sitting up in normal non rem sleep with consciousness. No apparent paraylsis, no trouble and no lapse in consciousness, which enabled me not to forget any detail of what I had just went through. I set the alarm approx. for 3 and a half hours, it took me about 20 minutes to get to what I call stage 3, and about 5 minutes to come to in a lucid dream, each dream felt like a half hour, there were 6 lucid dreams all together. Add it up and you get 3 hours and 25 minutes almost exactly what I set my alarm for.

What I accomplished was lucid dreaming about 3 hours non stop by will alone. It was so easy I could of done it for eight hours easily. No lapse in consciousness between dreams, which was 6. My physical body felt refreshed and my mind not tired at all either.

So to recap, lay down get to the state I call stage 3 (explained earlier) then keep consciousness till you black out while slowly lowering yourself deeper and deeper. Note: You may drift in and out of consciousness, do not confuse this with blacking out. If you dift in and out you will now because you and  your body will still be awake, when you fight to keep conscious and get to the breaking point you will not be able to hold on and you will black out. when you come to you will wake up in a dreamscape and you will automatically be lucid no need for reality checks you should kjnow why you are there and what you were trying to do before you ended up there.

                                                   (7)

Now you are lucid in a dream. What you want to do is let it fade away on its own do not force it to fade. So you may be stuck there for a half hour or so, make the best of it. You may need to know how not to get too involved in this dream, if you do and get too comfortable you will lose your consciousness. What I do to avoid this is keep and internal dialogue going constantly to keep using my consciousness/awareness exercised so they are firmly held. For example if I am walking (I will either think it or say it, its the same thing either way) I will say I am walking, noting what I see along the way. I do this non stop in all my lucid dreams.

Now once it starts to fade out keep sayihng to yourself "ok the dream is fading" and note the things that are disappearing "there goes the wall, the white wall"..etc. This keeps your awareness/consciousness going while the dream fades and prevents it from being swept away as well. After all is said and done you will be by yourself in the blackness. YOur body awareness will kick in and you will feel the vibrations. This state once again is normal non rem, non dreaming sleep only you managed to smuggle your consciousness with you.

From here you can project or go into a wake initiated lucid dream. Projection from here is easy and self explainatory. All you have to do is affirm you are floating up, or just say now I will get out of my body, or even try to picture your room and you will automatically see through the closed eyelids (well for me anyway it does this). It will happen easily. The hard thing is gettihng to a lucid drea, which not many people have methods of doing this without the possibility of either projecting or waking up, but I do. Just spin, spin your awareness clockwise (to the right) as if you were spinning yourself in the physical over and over at a moderate rate, either you dreamscape will form around you or you will have shards show up like I did everytime, if the later happens keep spinning till the shards form a complete picture and then stop they will seemingly seal and a vibrant, highly detailed, vivid image will be the result. Walk into it or push your consciousness into it. Slowly look around and you will see you are now in the picture, it now becomes your dreamscape.

If what I call the dream shards appear from spinning email (email at bottom) me and tell me about it. Each time the dream fades repeat the spinning process once back in non rem sleep. You can repeat this over and over. Give these instructions a try and keep me posted. You can have better odds if you do as I did and set an alarm for 3 and a half hours from the time you started. If you are too awake it will take longer to hit stage 3. If you are too tired you will hit stage 3 really fast. However either way you will get there regardless, if you are 1/2 tired and 1/2 awake it will be just right and easy to do. Each step in this article is vital so read carefully.

Notes: In between dreams and in non rem sleep do not attempt to focus on or move your physical body or you will end the sleep period and not be able to induce another lucid dream. Also keep repeating the dream processes I mentioned for more dreams after about 5-6 dreams your alarm should go off you will have a choice to either continuing the dreams or wake up if you choose to keep going you take a chance of losing consciousness in the lucid dreams and you may forget everything if you do lose consciousness in the dreams. So I would chose if I were just trying this for the first time to wake up like I did in order to not forget the entire experience. Another thing is dont use headphones or listen to hemi-sync audio while trying my methods in this article and dont use ear plugs as you will miss natural sounds that occur in your room or house or outside that might trigger the electrocution sensation that helps in the whole process I explained here. Now for the last note when you are in non-rem non-dreaming sleep with your consciousness and you are spinning your awareness around no thought to what the resulting picture should be apparent. Actually the only conscious effort is put into the spinning itself and just observing the shards or forming dreamscape, dont try to make the resulting picture any different just move torwards and into it and then you make the changes you want to once it is your dreamscape and you are in it. Regards,
                                                     T.L.   contact: vampire2kd@yahoo.com  

   This article is property of the author. I give permission to download or send this article to anyone anywhere,but do not attempt to plagiarize this article in any way shape or form. Thanks.

Yes the vibrations I get from doing what I describe are really intense as well, perhaps even a bit overwhelming. Well keep it up, you are doing pretty good with it. Best wishes, T.L.

(Spectral dragon) "Have you tried projecting during one of these? it should be immensely easier to do. (sorry if someone asked this already didn't have time to read all the replies)"

Yes, that is part of what I talk about in my articles. I note how easy it is from here, and a few other things. I also mention it is in this state where the pre obe symptoms run rampant, especially the vibrations, and the roaring in the ears that accompany the vibrations. Seperating one thing is as simple as thinking of seperation, and then the rest will start to go on its own.

Its alright upstream, wasn't mad or anything about the questions, it was fun. I just want people to try it out for theirselves and experience it. Oh Reemy did you get the roaring with the vibrations? If so, did you note any ear pressure. I am just curious because when I hear the roaring my ears feel like their under great pressure, I have to block it out and ignore it to stop from being awakened physically. Well take care.

"if you are talking about being conscious in nrem sleep and you are in complete darkness and you notice you cant see and you cant perceive any things of yourself like a body or whatever"

What I meant by this is that in nrem you are in complete darkness, you arent dreaming, you are more like thought energy in darkness. Since you are not dreaming you dont have a dream body. To spin from here you just think about spinning and you will.

quote:
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Actually I gain physical body awareness in nrem right off the bat, before I do anything.
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"Before what? The spinning for example? Can you explain it more fully?"

How is this confusing, I gain physical body awareness before I do anything, and anything would include spinning. As soon as I enter nrem sleep I feel my physical eyes slow to a stop and I feel the position my physical body is in.

"We can't disregard the strong input come from the physical body at times when there is not enough stimuli from an independent source. Where does your attention focused on to stabilize NREM?"

The reason it is so easy to project and do other things from nrem is because the lack of physical stimuli or any other kind. There will be pre obe symptoms but thats also what you want. Now if you are doing what I am and want to stabilize this state before doing anything, what I do is block out what I am feeling and ignore it. Where is my attention? My attention isnt anywhere except for looking at the darkness. Other than that I am not thinking of anything at all.

"Totally agreed. But unfortunately, all we do is making categories then put things into them. For example, considering the state of spinning, we have been discussing it as NREM sleep all along, without having the knowledge of its exact nature."

How do I know it is nrem sleep? Well when I enter this state I am not dreaming for one, secondly I feel my physical eyes slow to a stop and the whole time in here they arent moving. Its not exactly nrem sleep now since we are here consciously. So its nrem sleep + consciousness.

My sleeping habits lol. Well normally I sleep when I am tired. Sometimes I have sleeping habits of an insomniac, and at other times I sleep in excess of 12 hours. Now that I work second shift I go to sleep around 3 or 4am since I am online at this time talking to people. Then I will wake up around 2-2:30pm get ready for work then be at work at 3.

It seems to me you are confusing things a little bit, and maybe over thinking the whole thing. I know it seems stupid saying that, because its not a bad thing to over think something through. Just instead of questioning yourself or whatever you are doing, just go and do it, or try to attempt it. I have tried projection so many times before I had any success with what I am doing now, and all of my failures stemmed from thinking too much about what I was doing while I was doing it. Also the lack of understanding. But you already understand so much about the sleep cycle and probably your own unique sleeping cycle. I knew very little about mine and very little about the general sleep cycle. All I had to understand to succeed was the basics of what I was trying to do then success came.

Since you already seem like you have already accomplished projection and lucid dreams, I dont see what your problem is. You shouldnt have too many problems going from what you experience  to another experience. If that makes sense to you. A few people I have talked to succeeded with this, and some of these people never experienced a lucid dream or projection in their life, at least that they know of anyway. I am sure I didnt answer all of your questions though, so if I missed anything just let me know. Best wishes, T.L.

(upstream)"I just understand, that you spin not in your bed, but in the void, before regain awareness of your sleeping body. As LaBerge would say, you have an "unusually active REM system." The non-stop dreaming method is perfectly suit for you"

Actually I gain physical body awareness in nrem right off the bat, before I do anything. This is the fragile state in which if you pay attention to the physical body awareness you will gain physical feeling of the body instead of just being aware of the position you will start to gain the feeling of numbness go beyond that and you will feel your body physically and it is awaken from that point on. That is why treading carefully is what I do, ignore the body awareness and continue with what I was doing after I know my body will not try to awaken.
I think its not a good idea to toss everything into categories, without keeping in mind there are still unknowns out there. If everyone did this then we wouldn't know about projections right now we would still be convinced by others they were lucid dreams. I call them lucid dreams/dreamscapes for lack of a better term. In actuality I know its not a lucid dream, and there is actually no term for what I experience. Its not a dream, not a projection, its something completely different,  or perhaps a mix of both, or perhaps creating physical places in the non physical. Lets not get hung up on guessing what these places are and what state it is when you experience going into them. Instead I would like those that have will power and can think on their own to give what I mention a try.
So that they may experience and be able to relate to other people what they experience. This is the reason I didnt want to post my article on a regular forum, I wanted to post it in forums like this as an article and not an any active topic. The reason is because I would have people arguing with me as to what they are with only skimming what I have wrote instead of reading it completely through, and also have people who have read but not experienced it or think they have. No point in arguing or assuming anything, just experience and be all the more understanding for it. Reemy has the right idea, its a good attitude to have. Have no pre-conceived notion as to what will happen, and not take guesses as to what it is, just try and be enthusiastic then experience for ones self. Best wishes, T.L.

(Upstream) "It makes sense for me, that first I have to stabilize NREM-sleep and spinning afterwards. But how you I suppose to stabilize superficial NREM sleep when I find myself wild awake and nothing to spin? Don't forget to answer this question."

Well if you progress into nrem too fast you will wake up physically. Now if you are talking about being conscious in nrem sleep and you are in complete darkness and you notice you cant see and you cant perceive any things of yourself like a body or whatever, this is what happens to me. I will be in complete darkness when in nrem and I just think about spinning to the right and it does so and I feel sensations then the picture comes, or from here just project.
 
As I am not assuming what I go through is exactly what you go through I understand some of what I say makes no sense to you or does not apply to you. That is why I said just change whatever to suit your needs. As for the electrocution/shocking feeling well that happens to me before I even start to fall asleep consciously, its right before the hypnagogic imagery and sometimes overlaps that state.

Well I hope it was of help to you.

(Reemy) I am glad you had success. Once in nrem consciously isn't it so much easier to start the seperation. I find if I seperate one part it just goes on its own accord, I have to forcefully focus on stopping the seperation since I didnt dive into projection yet because I was still experimenting with the other things I was working on. Having finished that I am going to fully seperate either today in a few minutes, but I may just try tomorrow night instead since I feel so mentally fatigued from work.
Perhaps once you can get to nrem with ease, which it will be a lot easier after the first time we can do a joint experiement while projecting to validate them. If you want to just email me and we can talk about it. Well best wishes to everyone, T.L.

I had a few comments for some things you said, upstream. I hope I can clarify some things.

"Not enough "sleep pressure" will result in premature awakening, while too much sleep pressure will cause long NREM sleep between dream-episodes and brain-bound consciousness required for this method can't be kept"

Yes its true a lot of people awake physically. So perhaps I didnt get the point across that its a delicate process, too much thinking can kick you out of it (once the dream is fading)and wake the person up. You really have to be perceptive while this is going on to get past the fading part consciously, once its fully faded this is about where people either already lost consciousness are do lose consciousness resulting in nrem sleep for a long period of time. I have never had problems with either occuring, I do the same thing I did the first time and it always works perfectly for me, for others well they can change/tweak it a little to suit their needs. The articles are pretty much a bare-bone construction of what I do and what I think, you can change anything to your liking or needs.


"I'm not sure about the internal dialogue thing. In fact, if not enough sleep pressure to avoid waking up, too much thinking in the fade-out stage will awake you before spinning has any effect."

Well once again the point is to go about it easily and not force anything in this state by will, you want it to fade naturally like it would normally. I spin my consciousness when in nrem sleep, so the point I was making was to get to nrem sleep before spinning and at least sustain it for a few seconds, to stabalize it so you wont wake up will trying to spin your consciousness.

"My consciousness remain intact and continous all the time as I fading out - even without any internal dialogue."

Some are different, but do you mean you kept consciousness even after the dream was completely faded, or you lost it after it faded but kept it during the fading?

Again, my questions are:
1. Have you ever experienced more than 3 hours dreaming or you just suppose we can do that?
2. Do you do something with your attention to trigger the dream-reconstruction? Looking upward or something?
3. What's this noise-induced electrocution all about? Can you elaborate your description?

1.) After I wrote the article yes. During the first few days after I wrote the article, no because I didnt want to take a risk of any kind of mental side effect lol. Not having many people speak about what I experienced I didnt want to take a chance, since the first few experiences I have had some side effects, some really good and some very annoying. Afterwards, yes I went from 3 hours to 4 hours and two times tried 5 hours, all straight no lapse in consciousness with the exception of the initial black out I have that occurs before the whole process starts.

2.) Well I wouldn't get caught up in calling what this article explains as regular dreams or regular lucid dreams. The physicality is a little more so in this state than in physical waking life. Everything feels so concrete and with some things better than in physical life. However this wont apply depending on intent like if you want to pass through a wall or fly, but even those have some physical feelings. I call them induced lucid dreams in the article to keep a scientific mind about the whole thing and try not to be biased. Since its neither projection nor regular lucid dream it feels something in between these states. But I dont want to get caught up in interpretation which is why I strayed from completely labeling everything like so many people do.
Anyway sorry, well actually the only thing I do consciously is spin my consciousness and observe the sections of the picture that are forming out of the darkness, I dont look up or down because its perfectly in my line of sight, even while spinning all the sections stayed in front of my viewing area. After that I consciously push my consciousness forwards, against the resulting picture, and through it. Then once I do that its all around me and it was like it never was only in front of me, its a perfect environment.

3.) As always of course. Well this occurs when  you are still physically awake, in this state you can still move your body (physical) at will no problem. There comes a state at least for me and the others who I have walked through doing this, a time when physical (real) sounds trigger a sort of reflex, not to mention a seemingly physical impact. Although the impact in itself is not physical its consistent and as real as the physical. Let me explain myself, let say I am laying down and a sound occurs from the direction of my feet and I hear a click of my heater, the physical impact feeling, and the fuzzy/electric type of shocking feeling will start at my feet and work its way up to my head about a split second after the sound happens. If the sound happens from behind me from the direction of the head, the feeling will start at the head and work its way down in again about a split second. So you will hear the physical sound and feel its affects from a split second - half second from the time you had heard it, kind of like ripples in a pond but faster.
Now for the consistent part, well as I said everytime I am in this state and a click of the heater, or perhaps my fridge kicks on same thing will occur each and everytime. Not to mention even if I am wearing ear plugs and a sound occurs and I dont hear it, it still triggers the same thing, physical impact/electric shock sensation. Its like feeling sound in its original form or whatever. Its not just being sensitive or trying to perceive these things that make them apparent to the person, I think perhaps part of you is already partly out at this state and that is what perceives and feels these things and by some freak of nature thing you can actually feel this without trying to. The first time it happened to me was when I was first working torwards projection over 5 months ago.
Normally at the state I was in I would be sleeping or went into sleep much faster and bypassed that state in which this does occur. Once I actively worked torwards slowing the sleeping process down I started immediately feeling things of this nature. At first I thought it might of been an isolated thing and it was just me that could feel this. Then later when I finished astral dynamics (sorry for naming a title)Robert Bruce noted theres a state he went through that make real sounds seem like they impact you physically. Right then I was happy to hear someone else has the same thing happen.
Once I distributed this article to some friends and the ones I helped along regardless started to feel this too. The consistency alone is surprising, whether you hear it or not (the physical sound) the sensations will still be the same, and the direction of the sound also changes where these sensations start at. After a few clicks of the heater (which happens a lot since I have this old heater/register when the metal heats up or cools down it starts to click)I will get a really strong shocking feeling with this wave of wind type of feel (the physical feeling impact) and the shocking feeling will stay after the impact feeling passes, and then this intensifies and feels almost like you are being electrocuted except without the pain. Also at times when a sound occurs physically, and you get that impact feeling sometimes sinking sensations occur with it, sometimes not always it depends.

The thing that gets me in the environments I go to is also the consistency of the experience. I will be alone each and everytime, There wont be extra things around and no people. Just me, the environment and thats it, until you create otherwise.

I hope that was a good enough description for you upstream, I didnt cut any corners in explaination, as you can tell =-) I am glad you noticed the potential for such a practice as what I describe since the nrem sleep state when entered consciously is like a fork in the road, or a four way interesection and you can take anyway route you want from there, projection,the environments I describe and possibly other unknown states.
I kept an unbiased approach so that we wouldnt get hung up on interpretation and the sort, so its almost always good to take that approch and that is why I appreciate you mapping the whole thing out and taking the time to post the graphs, and compare them. It's really good, but before you think they are completely dreams you should try to go through several of these environments in one attempt and then see exactly how it feels and how real it all really seems. I really liked your approach in the post, very respectable. Thanks for your input and reply. Best wishes, T.L.

No not everynight lol, there are nights I dont attempt because I am too mentally fatigued. The times I do attempt I succeed, everytime. When I do attempt I set my alarm for three hours, so far thats the longest I  will do it. The reason for such caution is because a few weird things have happened since I have been doing this, my memory has been affected but only for the better-remembering things years ago I had forgotten, and other things such as seeing things and people that are not physically real like hallucinations but something a little different.
I am just trying to be careful, I wouldnt want to make myself insane. Well I hope you enjoy those articles. The reason I started the first one was because after my experience I wanted to make sure I wouldnt forget one step, so I was just basically writing a manual for myself. I thought well I would want to see if others could verify certain aspects of what I experienced but would only be able to do so if they did exactly what I did so thats why I wrote that article. Hopefully people will be able to understand it.
Some things may confuse, if they do just pm your qestions. Take care everyone. Best wishes, T.L.

Article #2 Further understanding of the environments (which I called lucid dreamscapes in the first article). Aspects of the self, and more on projection.

1.) New ways of thought

This article is being written for people like me - free thinkers. Free thinkers are people who challenge normal every day things, we challenge normal everyday concepts. We wish to make un-knowns into knowns by facing everything from a non -biased stand point. We realize for everon thing that there are more things we can learn from and about it. Even if its an everyday experience we know there is more we can learn about it.

We understand that the limitations of the physical need not dictate the level of our mind or influence its limitless abilities and infinite potential. Having said that let's get right into it. This writting is about lucid dreams and astral projections, but this whole article is for the most part centered around lucid dreams, aspects of consciously induced lucid dreams and naturally occuring lucid dreams. When one thinks of lucid dreams for the most part they think of dreams that you have complete control of. Which is right for the most part. Here is what I think when I hear the term lucid dreams. Lucid dreams are a direct connection to the subconscious with little to no filtering, there are two kinds of lucid dreams consciously induced or naturally occuring, a gateway to other states and the door way to conscious sleep (non-rem) - the lucid dream is the door that will let you consciously cross over to the aforementioned state (conscious sleep). I think of more than that but those are the basic forms of thought I go through.

Regular lucid dreamers experience what I call naturally occuring lucid dreams. They consciously conditioned theirselves to recognize what they call dream signs while they are deraming. Dream signs are things that might happen while in the dreams, things that normally wouldnt or couldnt happen in their phyiscal lives. An example of this is they are dreaming and see a person fly, the person floats with out support, they see this and right then they know they are dreaming resulting in a lucid dream. They consciously acknowledge they are dreaming and a fluctuation of consciousness occurs and from there they have conscious control and awareness. The fluctuation will also affect the dreamscape or environment itself forcing it into a high detailed,vivid, and more physical dream.

Regular lucid dreamers are completely content of their ability to control dreams, which is good thing. The problem with that is they never once think about other options or experiences they have concious access to. While some may devise ways of control in the lucid dreams that result in a longer lucid dream, they never once thought they have another option. They think the lengths of their lucid dreams are only limited to the lengths of their rem sleep cycles. They think that when a rem cycle ends it is the end of their lucid dream and when the dream fades away their consciousness is swept away also. While the last statement is true it doesnt mean there arent other options. Options they didnt know about or otions they originally thought were impossible. In this article I lay out the options I speak of, and along with it I will tell you how to have the options and how to experience them.

In these two articles, I dont hope people will read this and automatically believe me. What I hope is to pique your interest so that you will try and experience what I talk about for yourselves. I say these articles because this article is to be a companion for my walkthrough article on how to experience what I speak of. This article will contain things I didnt write in the first, and explainations of things I wrote in the other article to simplify it of rpeople who might not completely understand the first article. You may ask "why if what you say is true and it works, are you taking your time to tell others rather than keeping this to yourself?" I can tell you its not to profit heh. Well the reason is because I am not selfish what so ever. I iwsh to help others and by doing so maybe it will result in more research to be done on aspects of sleep and other experiences as well, such as astral projection. I want others to have access to their spiritual selves. When one hears spiritual they think of religion. Those two have nothing in common. Religion plays no role in these experiences.  I am talking about being able to understand your origin and experience your true non-physical form, and have choices in the non-physical paths you can take. My last reason is because I love people. I am empathetic to those of us who feel lost or depressed by the pressures of the physical, when they needn't be. I will be honest there was a time I was in a way selfish. I was so absorbed and conditioned to the physical my ways of thought invilved nothing but the physical. I broke out of this cycle of thought when a very wise person named uri told me in an email not to focus on the physical aspects of the mind but more on the non-physical and to use my time to help others.

Of course at the time I didnt know what I know now. His very insightful and somewhat cryptic message set me onto a path I am on now, and it took me sometime to understand what is important. So now that I know a way I can help others, I will do just that.Once I uncover other unkowns and make them knowns, these forums you frequent will be the first places whom I will go wtih my new information.

So now you have a little insight to how much depth there is invovled what I would like each of you to ask yourselves is would you like to experience what I explained in my last article? Do you have the will to completely re-vamp your way of thought and your thinking processes?

The truth is so many of us are too caught up in our physical lives to have time or want to take the time to do any of these things. Once I knew the process and knew and realized teh mechanics I was able to experience what I explained in the last article my first try. Its true I practiced projection and lucid dreams for over five months little to no avail but I was blindly trying to do something I didnt understand, it was not till I come to a realization that I was able to completely understand. Once I understood, first try was all it took for me to experience what I always wanted to but couldnt. Heres what I have known but not understood. To project you need to lay there and get your body asleep keeping mind awake. At first I thought okay getting the body to sleep should be easy. I realized the person would have to go to sleep, regular non dreaming sleep consciously or within the beginning stages of this. Robert bruce said in his boook: Astral dynamics that if one finds himself/herself in sleeping paralysis a projection has already occured or is occuring. This is not always true as I can relate from my experiences. You can go from complete consciousness to a lucid dreamscape carefully traverse into non dreaming conscious sleep and at that point try to move and you will be paralyzed, then still seperate no problem as long as paralyses doesnt make you panic. I agree with Robert Bruce with just about everything else. Next topic will be what the differences are between natrual and induced lucid states.

2.) Differences between natural occuring lucid dreams and consciously induced lucid dreams (environments)

This topic will be exptremely short and straight forward. The first and most obvious difference between the two of these, is natrually occurring lucid dreams are when one becomes conscious in an already active dream. In this state the dreamscape already has people and things created by your subconscious. This state can become extremely chaotic causing the lucid dreamer to lose hi/her consciousness. With consciously induced lucid dreamscapes you do this from conscious non dreaming sleep. In this state once you enter your created environment you will be all there is, short of the environment itself. The reason for this is its a completely new/fresh environment that your subconscious dself never fooled with yet. Since you're conscious in this new environment your subconscious wont do anything with it at all unless you state the intention for it to cretae something, perhaps a person,people,art,drawing-anything you want it will create. This state is perfectly clear, its higher in detail-more than you can imagine, and has more uses than I can state here. This brings me to the next topic.

3.) Uses for the consciously induced environments as opposed to the naturally occuring.

In induced environments you can carry out what you originally set out to do without the distractions of people and other things that would be going on in a naturally occuring one.
If you are an artist who paints once in a induced environment state internally or externally (out loud) you want to see a remarkable painting and it will appear where ever your focus or attention is, like in referrence to in front of you on the ground or in your hands. It will be more intricate and amazing than you could ever conceive. Then study it, memorize it then traverse to non dreaming conscious sleep and once ou can physically start to feel your body sit up. Since you didnt lose consciousness you will remember everything perfectly. Not only will the painting your subconscious created be wonderful it will be symbolic- having an insightful message/meaning that can be interpreted, which adds all the
more beauty to it.

If you are the kind of person who likes to relax, once entering an induced environment you can just sit and relax and observe. This is the ideal state since there will be nothing exept you can the environment

If you draw you would do the same thing as a painter would, same thing goes for poems,songs, anything else artistic even sculptures.

If you wish to experiment, the induced environment is ideal as there will be no distractions, unless you consciously create some yourself to challenge yourself for whatever reason.

If you are like me and want to speak with your subconscious self or want to receive messages from it there are a number of ways I will state here.
1. If you want to view messages or subconscious images while the induced dreamscape hold the intention for a television to be created in which your subconscious will show you images or video to communicate with you or send a message to you. Take a seat and watch it.

 2. If you want to conversate with your subconscious with actual spoken words hol dthe intention to create a person which will embody your subconsciousness, it will be a vehical for your subconscious self. The amazing thing about this test is it does work perfectly. Instead of your subconscious speaking to you through symbolic images it may speak to you directly yet in symbolic speech, it will be normal speech but have great symbolic meaning.

If you enjoy sexual intercourse this can be done too just hold the intention of creating your ideal partner and your subconscious will create him/her, or more if thats what you want. you will notice that when you create people your subconscious doesnt create drones or mindless bodies, each person has his or her own personality, phyical attributes, likes and disklikes. If you do not approach those you created they will go do their own thing, and even converse with one another. If you hol dthe intention for them to do something they will do it. If you tell them to out loud without holding the intention internally they may not do what you say, holding internally the intetion is key. Another side note is the people you create here in the induced environment cant bring about new things in the dreamscape or create unless you tell them to do so. If you create a body/vehical for your subconscious he/her will be able to bring about things in the environment as him/her has as much control as you do, but it wont be distracting. If you want him/her to leave it will no problem, usually.

I have listed many things you can do from here, but there are millions of possible applications. Be creative and you may leanr and experience very interesting things.

4.) My personal experience with consciously induced environments

Here I will state just two of my experiences. this way you can decide if this is something you may want to experience, and so you may know what kinds of things to expect.

My very first experience: I lay still for about 15 minutes, on my back breathing through my nose. I then hear a click caused by my heater. The click occurs in th eheater and a second or half second later an impact feeling hits my head resulting from the sound in my room, a fuzy feeling along with an electricity type of shock sweeps from my head to my feet. I pay no attention to these sensations. Then the electric type shocks just keep occuring till its one steady electrocution type of sensation. The hypnagogic visuals start coming, once they start to occur more I pay a little attention to them, thus lowering myself deeper. I hit a breaking point, my consciousness feels like it wants to slip away but I get a good grip and dont give up. Instantly I black out, what feels like a second later I find myself in a big office. It feels as thought I am physically waking up. I look around. THe floors were tiled wooden floors. The walls were white. There were windows that revealed outside. I looked around, this office was completely empty. I first thought I might liven this up. Once I knew about how many people I wnated, I held the intention to create and they just appeared, along with deks, sculptures, amongst other office stuff. I noted these sculptures were complex with the most intricate designs I have even seen.

I noticed a few guys looking at a girl. I realized there were almost all guys with only a few girls. So I said "they need more women" and held the intention to create more women. The very second I held the intention there was a knock at the door, and women entered. I marveled at each person and their personalities, each one was unique, had their own physical attributes, each had their own likes and dislikes. They went about and did their own thing and even conversated with one another. I admired everything I was able to create for a while. I wanted to see if I could order them around, while holding the intention for what I wanted them to do, I yelled "Get all this crap out of here." All the people scurried around helping each other take desks out. I laughed to myself because I was in complete control. I got kind of annoyed as they were taking so long to get everything out. I held the intention for them to disappear and they were gone, just like that. I sat in this office thinking things through, then perceived it was fading, I let it fade while exercising my consciousness/awareness by using internal dialogue. Once faded I then had physical body awareness and felt which position I lay. I tried to move my physical fingers and couldnt, I was paralyzed. I was in regular non dreaming sleep consciously.

I could go from conscious sleep to these environments back and forth non stop as long as I wanted and then get up physically once in conscious sleep by sitting up once I gained physical feeling without a break in consciousness. I will write one more short experience.

I was in conscious sleep, I spun my consciousness till the dream shards as I call them formed a picture. Like usual I push my consciousness forward, against it and into the picture. I was at a foot ball field andin the very first row in the stands. I knew exactly what it is I went to do as always I was alone. I created people in the stands for backround. I held the intention to create a body/vehical for my subconscious self to use to talk to me. A guy appeared in front of me. he looked extremely dazed. I kept asking who he was to make sure it wasnt just a regular person I created. Then the dazed look lifted off his face, now he looked at me like I was crazy.
He then said "You know nothing of being aware" my first reaction was to laugh since I was completely aware and in control so I said "I am the one who is aware here not you." He responded "I beg to differ" laughing to myself as I have never heard someone use that phrase. I watch him lift up his hand. A phone appears in h is hand and he hands it to me.  I put it up to my right ear as I always do in the physical. First I heard just staticy backround noises, then moans,groans, and mumbles, and then a few words and broken words, all in my voice. It took me a few seconds and I knew what was going on. I was listening to my body sleeping in the physical and mumble as I talked in this environment, I said "what the f..." and before I finished that sentence my subconscious self smiled,winked and walked away despite me yelling for him to stop, he had as much control as I did.

These last few topics are giong to be really short so dont stop reading just yet.

5.) Limitations of each conscious state

Naturally occurring: These dreams were already set in motion before you become conscious, so sometimes they can be chaotic and distractive. The distractions and scenerios that were set in motion can cause most lucid dreamers to lose their consciousness as fast as they got it.
A lot of times they end all too soon.

Induced environments: you are alone, no distractions, and as far as my experience goese there are seemingly no limitations.

6.) Understanding the conscious and subconscious selves.

There are many lessons/books/articles that say the subconscious is a by product of the consciousness. The same sources would suggest the supression of the subconscious and list meanst to accomplish it. I always feel bad that people will be ignorant enough to believe those authors' naivity and ignorance to the point they would follow through with surpession of the subconscious self, or supression of any kind. Heres my understanding of the conscious and subconscious selves. While we live in physical bodies, our conscious and subconscious selves act on our physical bodies by means of a link that is not known to me. However they act on our bodies seperately and at different times. The reason for this seperation of the conscious and subconscious selves is if they were "whole" physical lives wouldnt be possible like this. While we are physically awake our subconcious will observe our experiences and while we are sleeping we will observe our subconscious self' experiences, in bits and pieces that we call dreams here. Our subconscious self is half of the whole we will call ourselves when we physically expire.

7.) Mastery these conscious states

Once one can traverse from what I call conscious sleep, and get a feel for this state, he/she can practice going to and from environments. Once you can traverse from conscious sleep to the environments and back, you will be able to do this over and over again every attempt, unless too mentally fatigued. Some people dont really see the potential for this, this state (conscious sleep) is the gateway to projection and the environments I experience, possibly others that are not known to me. Think of it like a neutral state in which you can expand off of. Regular practice getting here should be attempted. Once successful try going from here to the environments and back to conscious sleep and so on etc.. Then once you get that down, go from conscious sleep to projection and once you get back project again, once you get that down there are limitless possiblities, and trust me with regular practice you will be able to no problem at all.

Notes: what I call the environments I may have called consciously induced lucid dreams or environments as for lack of a better term. They are neither projections nor lucid dreams. You will know what I mean by this when you experience it.

This article is property of the author. I give permission to download or send this article to anyone anywhere,but do not attempt to plagiarize this article in any way shape or form. Thanks, T.L.

Scott I and a few others here are also members of as also. Let me clarify what you said about being asleep while projecting. If hooked up to an eeg machine and observed by a scientist/technician they would conclude that the projector was asleep in the non-rem non-dreaming sleep state, as where under the same circumstances dreaming it would identify us as being in the rem state, dreaming sleep state. If you project your physical body will feel refreshed just like when you sleep, same as the mind. If you have a lucid dream or many that night you will feel physically refreshed, same as the mind.

So if you indeed had a lucid dream you wouldnt know you werent projecting just by how you feel once you come out of it. I pointed to facts you could verify earlier with the alex tanous trials under scientific scrutiny and lab environments. Whether you want to look further into it or not is up to you, whether you do or not (and I believe I am speaking for the majority of this forum) do not care what you decide to do.

Im not mad at your opinions or anyone elses, everyone is entitled to have one about all subjects. But just dont say you can state for a fact they are not real, because its not a fact, its an opinion.

To weet: I didnt mean you cant gain insight to who you are exactly, you can gain insight but its in fragments and the whole isnt remembered till one physically dies and comes to terms with that. I know this for myself from my own experience and memories. Dont take my word for it though you will know when the time is right, and once you die physically. Every one has opinions, just please try to keep it on good terms, and everyone will appreciate you all the more for that. I am glad though I see people not blindly believing until they prove it to themselves, its good to be a skeptic. A skeptic keeps an open mind until he experiences and comes to a conclusion, he is not swayed or holds pre-conceived notions that something is false before looking into it.

Take care. I wish everyone luck with what they want to do. Also I wanted to know how to go about sending an article I wrote to the admin of the site to see if he/she thinks it would make a good addition to this site. I am not sure if they post articles. If anyone is interested it is about wake initiated lucid dreams and projection from non rem sleep with consciousness intact. Well once again good luck to everyone in what they decide to believe and do.

I can see what you mean, in that some obes share the same properties as dreams. The thing is some people have lucid dreams that are so convincing they might think it was a projection, the same thing goes for wake initiated lucid dreams and even more so.
So honestly unless you have experienced it for yourself you might not know the difference at first.

As for you saying we do not go to realms or whatever till the reincarnation period ends. I too believe in reincarnation because of a few things I have experienced for myself, and memories I have embedded with my physical life memories of this life, but I look at it differently than what most people do that believe in reincarnation.

They think its a never ending cycle until you gain some form of control and are able to stop it. Some also seem to think that immediately after we die we are reborn, or a very short period after death they are. I believe that we chose to live again and or not forced to. Once you can get to a certain point you have a few options/paths you can take and one happens to involve living in the physical again. We may take this path because there are experience and knowledge we havent found yet in past lives so we go for it again, the catch is we wont know who we really are till we are die again physically.

Automatically assuming things is a mistake as we wont know till we die, so I too could be wrong but I think I have part if not half right. Know one is a hundred percent correct just because of the complexities along would be too much for one human mind to comprehend. lol yes I do breath I usually type very fast and dont feel the need to add spacing. I am not writing a book here and grammar can be sub-par I havent seen any rules against bad grammar, come on really its an online forum. If you can control your eyes to enough to read sentences next to each other without your sight skipping a few lines down then its a problem for you, see an optometrist. They have these non prescription glasses that are tinted with soft colours that help that problem. For this post I obliged though.