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Author Topic: Where will you be on Dec 21, 2012?  (Read 12439 times)
Frank
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« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2005, 11:12:11 »

"... this isn't just something that little kids believe..."

I know, and that's precisely what makes the whole scenario just so ridiculous! It's the sort of creative fantasy you'd expect from children, but it's actually adults doing the fantasising.

This kind of thing is something that certain kinds of people have indulged in for probably as long as we've been occupying this planet. All the while these dates have come and gone, and each generation thinks up new dates and they pass by, and so it continues. But don't let that inconvenient fact spoil your doomsday party.

I guess it is comforting for certain types of people to dream that one day, all that they deem to be nasty, unworthy people will get their comeuppance, and that all the "good" people (as they typically think of themselves) will be “saved”. But 2012 will come and go just like any other year. All the main protagonists will broadcast their excuses, everyone else will try to save face by fudging the issue, and the following generation will prepare their script for the next date. 2020 perhaps? That's a nice round number, or what about 2050? Bit too far away I suppose, but a nice date for future generations.

Based on previous form my money is on the "got our dates wrong" excuse. You'd think this would have worn thin a hundred generations ago at least. But no, people today still believe it.

Yours,
Frank
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Ybom
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« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2005, 17:21:42 »

I find it amazing that threads like this recieve the most posts. It kind of scares me actually, as I see people like Frank and Nay trying to wisen up some of the people on the current 2012 (and not so current prediction/numerology 'game'), and I see the rest going 'but what if?'.

The reason why I am scared is because there is a major mental war going on here in my mind. The 'believers in doom' can be considered to be slowly mentally creating the scenario, while the 'wiser ones' are fending off their reality attack. Maybe the believers will win this time? I sure hope not.

Instead, I really wish they had put more effort into y2k. I really wanted to see everyone's computer start doing backflips and stuff. That would of been cool.

Oh well, I'm rooting for the 'wiser ones' team here. Mental-fence! Mental-fence!
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2005, 19:16:55 »

I think neither side has the right to say they "know." Who can tell what is or is not going to happen in the future? IMHO it is best to keep the possibilities of both sides in mind cause the future is never written in stone and nobody, not even some of the greatest fortune tellers or predictionists know for certain what is going to happen.
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essence
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« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2005, 19:30:41 »

Quote from: SpectralDragon
I think neither side has the right to say they "know." Who can tell what is or is not going to happen in the future? IMHO it is best to keep the possibilities of both sides in mind cause the future is never written in stone and nobody, not even some of the greatest fortune tellers or predictionists know for certain what is going to happen.


That is the wisest statement I have read out of all of the threads, on this whole topic!

What do I believe about 2012 or the near future?, well things are changing very rapidly and I feel something big is going to transpire, but the exact day or date I don't know.  I will read the links posted because their is some truth in all information.

E
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2005, 03:05:52 »

Quote
I guess it is comforting for certain types of people to dream that one day, all that they deem to be nasty, unworthy people will get their comeuppance, and that all the "good" people (as they typically think of themselves) will be “saved”. But 2012 will come and go just like any other year. All the main protagonists will broadcast their excuses, everyone else will try to save face by fudging the issue, and the following generation will prepare their script for the next date. 2020 perhaps? That's a nice round number, or what about 2050? Bit too far away I suppose, but a nice date for future generations.


I don't think there's much reason to believe anything really spectacular will occur on any particular date in 2012, but in the upcoming years leading into and centered around 2012 a lot may take place (I agree that nobody really knows). I don't think it'll really be a matter of 'good people being saved' either. If these events actually take place, a lot of everybody will die regardless and it would be hard to tell exactly who.

An event like Yellowstone erupting, for example, would cause millions if not billions around the world to die, mostly because all the food grown in the midwest would suffer from a blocking out of sunlight, but also because of massive climate change and of course the 500-mile diameter of carnage from fire and ash ( http://whyfiles.org/shorties/083giant_volc/ <-- last major eruption info, http://exodus2006.com/supervol.html <-- more eruption info). That's not a threat that should be taken for granted, either, since Yellowstone has been showing activity in recent years that goes beyond causing those geysers that tourists love so much ( http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/activity.html <-- regularly updated Yellowstone activity information). A recent quake in Alaska gave an eerie foreshadowing of what a nearby eruption might spark Yellowstone to do ( http://www.seis.utah.edu/RecentNews/YNP-11042002.shtml ). It's also had regular massive eruptions every few thousand years or so, and I think it's now overdue by its average. It would be considerably worse than Mt. St. Helens (also showing activity again lately, http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/09/29/mount.st.helens/ ), and right over our breadbasket. Maybe people will be a little more open to the idea of events like this after the tsunamis in Asia and Africa, which were also warned against but just not expected to do much damage (Do I even need to link to any additional info?).



I think those are the sorts of events, at least natural-disaster wise, that are going to lead us into 2012 and maybe a little beyond. Hand-in-hand with those events would be political events dealing with the rising tension in the Mid-East, with Bush possibly preparing for a war in Iran ( http://www.etherzone.com/2004/lang112204.shtml ,  http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/is_iran_next/ ), which is known to have WMDs and will use them against us, and other eastern countries while at home outrage is still being suppressed by propoganda in the media ( http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media/Propaganda/Iraq.asp , http://www.lewrockwell.com/dmccarthy/dmccarthy36.html ) while more and more people are waking up and realizing what's going on politically in the world. It wouldn't take a history major to realize that this obviously sets the stage for some civil conflict at home, as well as huge problems abroad.

North Korea has also been exaggerated as a dire threat, which would suggest the media was setting the stage for war there as well, and tensions between the US and Russia may again be picked up as Putin recently announced the development of a new weapon capable of hitting the US regardless of our current defense systems, which was undoubtedly a result from our own advances in advancing military technology and creating weapons of mass destruction heedless of foreign agreements ( http://www.stopdubya.com/TreatyBusterDubya.htm , and such as our illegal manufacturing of anthrax which became public around the time of the anthrax scares, http://www.nogw.com/articles/realbioterror.html ). And the corruption within the system is there but expressed more in other threads here and too involved to go into here. Still, it's there, and people are starting to realize this more and more and it isn't helping our politcal situation.



Then, of course, there's global warming and everything it stands for: climates changing, deteriorating ozone, heat waves killing thousands in Europe, unusual storms in unusual amounts doing unusual damage, parts of the ice caps breaking off and entering strange parts of the world or melting at unprecedented rates. What's interesting is that the rest of our solar system is showing unusual activity. The Sun is a good example of this. Remember all those record-breakingly massive flares? They haven't stopped coming ( http://www.spaceweather.com/ ), though the media has lost interest, and they certainly still aren't usual and don't fit any scientific observations we've ever made, especially that 'X28' that could've easily been more like X40 back in 2003 ( http://www.msnbc.com/news/984388.asp?0cl=cR&cp1=1 ). Similar oddities have started plaguing individual planets in our system, as well, in the form of Pluto warming as it moves farther into space ( http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html ), Jupiter's spots weakening and climate changing ( http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/04/21_jupiter.shtml ), climate change on Mars ( http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,48895,00.html ), etc.

I think the developlment of those things are going to be what leads us into change around 2012. The fact that the Mayans designated that as an important year may show that spiritually, this is the year of an important change as well. I think 2012 was once referred to on these boards as 'midnight' for all of these things; the precise date given for a series of events that are still unfolding and will continue to unfold after 2012 from the view that we're entering a new celestial age as we cycle further through the cosmos. I don't see how that would be much more difficult to believe than there is a such thing as Astral Projection, or God. Especially combined with  current events that are definitely unique to our times, the idea that we're entering new times doesn't seem that hard to believe for me at least.

Again, this doesn't mean that all 2012 beliefs necessarily mean that on December 12th or whatever it is 2012, bad people will suddenly die and the good will be saved or whatever you're under the impression of it meaning. Just that we're entering a period of extraordinary change and unfortunately a lot of carnage may very easily come with that, and it seems likely will if these things to continue to unfold at all. Thousands and thousands have already died from that tsunami, and the war in Iraq has killed over 100,000 Iraqi civilians alone. Saying that more people will die from natural disasters and war is not saying much. Saying that the war will only get worse isn't saying much either, and science is already showing that natural disasters are on a major rise. It isn't a very big step from that to believing that these things will climax and then stabilize (certainly they won't go on forever!), one way or another, in the near future, and then putting this under a label of a new start for humanity. The Mayans already threw us a date, so, whatever works.
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Gandalf
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« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2005, 13:45:15 »

people keep saying 'well you cant know either way'.

All I would say is instead of reading all about '2012' and 'demon wars' on dodgy websites and dubious 'researched' books... go and look at the *facts' ie look at what reputable archaeologists and historians have to say about the mayan calender, what it actualy refers to and what it doesnt...
You may be in for a slight letdown with regards to your apocalypse fantasies.. You see, I am one of the few who actually bothered to look into the reality of it.. and its not overly exciting... so yes, i can quite happily say that nothing is going to 'happen'...

I'm not going to bore you with the actual facts of the Mayan calender as its something you should read about yourself and those who are actualy interested will find out.. all those who base their info on dodgy websites and books are not going to be convinced so there is not much point as far as they are concerned!

In the end they will learn the hard way, as has happened so often in the past! But by then the 'apocalypse' torch will have passed to a new generation with an all new date to worry/fantasise about.

Douglas
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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2005, 16:51:20 »

Quote from: Gandalf
people keep saying 'well you cant know either way'.

All I would say is instead of reading all about '2012' and 'demon wars' on dodgy websites and dubious 'researched' books... go and look at the *facts' ie look at what reputable archaeologists and historians have to say about the mayan calender, what it actual refers to and what it doesnt...
You may be in for a slight letdown with regards to your apocalypse fantasies.. You see, I am one of the few who actually bothered to look into the reality of it.. and its not overly exciting... so yes, i can quite happily say that nothing is going to 'happen'...

I'm not going to bore you with the actual facts of the Mayan calender as its something you should read about yourself and those who are actualy interested will find out.. all those who base their info on dodgy websites and books are not going to be convinced so there is not much point as far as they are concerned!

In the end they will learn the hard way, as has happened so often in the past! But by then the 'apocalypse' torch will have passed to a new generation with an all new date to worry/fantasise about.

Douglas



I would appreciative if you posted the links that you found on the Mayan calender, I want to know more about the subject.

I don't think you can know either way, look at the all people that just died in the tsunami to them it would be an end or an transition on a mass scale.
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2005, 17:08:46 »

What's wrong with the following information?:

http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html

Quote
Summary

This has been my attempt to fill a vacuum in Mayan Studies, an answer to the why and how of the end date of the 13-baktun cycle of the Mayan Long Count. The solution requires a shift in how we think about the astronomy of the Long Count end date. The strange fact that it occurs on a winter solstice immediately points us to possible astronomical reasons, but they are not obvious. We also shouldn't forget the often mentioned fact that the 13-baktun cycle of some 5125 years is roughly 1/5th of a precessional cycle. This in itself should have been suggestive of a deeper mystery very early on. Only with the recent identification of the astronomical nature of the Sacred Tree has the puzzle revealed its fullness. And once again we are amazed at the sophistication and vision of the ancient New World astronomers, the decendants of whom still count the days and watch the skies in the remote outbacks of Guatemala.

This essay is not contrived upon sketchy evidence. It basically rests upon two facts:

1) the well known end date of the 13-baktun cycle of the Mayan Long Count, which is December 21st, 2012 A.D. and

2) the astronomical situation on that day. Based upon these two facts alone, the creators of the Long Count knew about and calculated the rate of precession over 2300 years ago. I can conceive of no other conclusion. To explain this away as "coincidence" would only obscure the issue.

For early Mesoamerican skywatchers, the slow approach of the winter solstice sun to the Sacred Tree was seen as a critical process, the culmination of which was surely worthy of being called 13.0.0.0.0, the end of a World Age. The channel would then be open through the winter solstice doorway, up the Sacred Tree, the Xibalba be , to the center of the churning heavens, the Heart of Sky.
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RT
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« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2005, 19:04:11 »

Why is it that people will chime in and tell there side with no links, proof and claim they are virtually all knowing?  It makes them look arrogant and ignorant.  My claims about 2012 stem from much research and information, whether people get off their behinds and search into it is another issue. And yes it does take time. Hearsay info is just that and if you are looking for a truth you need to dig in.

If you are going to make a claim back it with some evidence and facts, then people can come to their own conclusion, otherwise it is just hot air coming from one source.

Whether my claims on 2012 based on research, intuition and other avenues are correct are my own gut theories, but again they are based on much research from many different and diverse sources.

And no I don't know all and don't claim too, but the 2011,12,13 dates are very significant and the Mayans were extremely accurate mathematicians and astrologers, if you have extensive mathematics backgrounds and can the do proper calculations and understand astrology you will she how significant and accurate their systems are.  The Gregorian Calender the one every misinformed uses today is the one that is extremely flawed and does not follow any logic or proper astrological cycle. Leap year(LOL) 365, 31 days in some months, 28 days in other, 30 in others etc....... Challenge the current calendar and time system and you will see the truths. Basically if you set up your own standard of time you can control the masses, that is what the Gregorian calendar is it follows no cycles but it's own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_Calendar

http://wingmakers.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=1652

Do a search for Dreamspell story on Google.

RT
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2005, 19:25:40 »

Quote from: Gandalf
people keep saying 'well you cant know either way'.

All I would say is instead of reading all about '2012' and 'demon wars' on dodgy websites and dubious 'researched' books... go and look at the *facts' ie look at what reputable archaeologists and historians have to say about the mayan calender, what it actualy refers to and what it doesnt...
You may be in for a slight letdown with regards to your apocalypse fantasies.. You see, I am one of the few who actually bothered to look into the reality of it.. and its not overly exciting... so yes, i can quite happily say that nothing is going to 'happen'...

I'm not going to bore you with the actual facts of the Mayan calender as its something you should read about yourself and those who are actualy interested will find out.. all those who base their info on dodgy websites and books are not going to be convinced so there is not much point as far as they are concerned!

In the end they will learn the hard way, as has happened so often in the past! But by then the 'apocalypse' torch will have passed to a new generation with an all new date to worry/fantasise about.

Douglas


Research for what might happen in the future is destructive in my opinion. Since you don't know what is going to happen it's fruitless and you can't really know if it will do any good or not.
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RT
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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2005, 19:50:35 »

Dragon,

I will agree with you in part, but many here claim to be able to time travel by astral projection and see the future. What about them?

The future I believe is not set in stone, but with the path we are on now it appears something has to give.

In the past we didn't have the level of communication as today world wide and as we push forward in this unsustainable world industry, government and economy something is coming down the pipe quickly based on the amount of individuals in the world involved there days.

Whether it will be a good thing or bad thing I don't know, but so far things are aren't looking like they are going smoothly in our unsustainable world.  

The ethics and morals of people in high places, and power positions these days are in a state of disarray.  Everything appears to be a me me me agenda and those that enter the arena with good intention find they cannot buck the current system.  

I don't really have any answer to the current problems, but it doesn't take a time traveler, psychic, Mayans, or anyone else to tell us something is really out of wack world wide.  Look at the WMD world wide this is only one area.  

Previously in time we didn't have the destructive capabilities that we do today and we didn't have many different cultures and societies with these capabilities even 15 years ago, even though we had the madness, chaos and people controlling issues.

If we could get some kind of ET intervention I would hope it would be real soon, so this destructive path we are on is diverted.

And if you don't plan for a future of some sort and do the research what good will the future hold?

RT
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Nay
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2005, 21:04:21 »

Whom said they travel into the future??

I'll say it again, this earth has had the same world wide problems from day one.  The world is constantly changing and men are constantly postering for domination.

And did I read your post right...."ET intervention"?  Ummmm..phone home type of thing?

So the answer is Aliens coming to our rescue?  Now I get it.

Nay
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RT
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2005, 21:29:03 »

Quote from: Nay
Whom said they travel into the future??

I'll say it again, this earth has had the same world wide problems from day one.  The world is constantly changing and men are constantly postering for domination.

And did I read your post right...."ET intervention"?  Ummmm..phone home type of thing?

So the answer is Aliens coming to our rescue?  Now I get it.

Nay


I guess you don't know what an ET is it can be anything from a little green guy to a Spirit guide you meet on the astral plan. ET means something other than humans.

I can see the level of understanding and knowledge of the some of the people on this board are lacking and very sarcastic.  Trying to bring knowledge to people with blind ignorance or a close mind is pointless.
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2005, 21:35:59 »

RT, I myself have viewed events in the past through projection. The future, however, is quite hazy. Anyone claiming to travel to the future through a projection is actually projecting into a possible future, and not necissarily the future we are going to see.

As for the state of the world, it is true that we have more destructive weapons, however, I would like to note that history shows us humanity is less aggressive today than it was in the past. At least we don't start wars simply because one small discourtesy in court occured on accident, or because a local shaman decided a christian priest didn't know what he was talking about.
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Nay
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« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2005, 21:36:15 »

Quote from: RT
Quote from: Nay
Whom said they travel into the future??

I'll say it again, this earth has had the same world wide problems from day one.  The world is constantly changing and men are constantly postering for domination.

And did I read your post right...."ET intervention"?  Ummmm..phone home type of thing?

So the answer is Aliens coming to our rescue?  Now I get it.

Nay


I guess you don't know what an ET is it can be anything from a little green guy to a Spirit guide you meet on the astral plan. ET means something other than humans.

I can see the level of understanding and knowledge of the some of the people on this board are lacking and very sarcastic.  Trying to bring knowledge to people with blind ignorance or a close mind is pointless.


OH..please, practice what you preach.  And I'm sorry, I never thought a spirit guide was consider a ET.  I've only met one.....wait.... he was extra tall though...Hmmmmmmm.. rolleyes

I will however say I do have a ummmmm.... creative personality.  Cheesy  Sarcastic...Naaaahhhh

Nay
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