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Author Topic: Abillities in the astral world  (Read 11740 times)
shaolin
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« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2005, 12:45:02 »

Question:

How do you go from Focus 2 to Focus 3? And in Focus 2, is it so that you can like ask someone what the jackpot number for the 72 millions in the "Lottery Shop" is? And explore all places there is in our physical world?
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« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2005, 13:37:42 »

Mustardseed,

for me, the basic flaws of people saying that one doesn't leave the body are the claims and validations of people in NDE state perceiving clouds coming out of a dying person's body, and the sudden weight loss of a dead body compared to the formerly living body.
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« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2005, 13:37:42 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Ben K
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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2005, 02:36:45 »

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Well interesting but that's not how I understand phasing, from my understanding it is just a enlargement of consciousness, no exit is possible. Enlighten me if I am wrong!!


You dont exit your body even when you DO go to focus 3. He is just explaning it in laymens terms if you will. The reason we say that is because you are never *IN* your body to begin with. I like to use the old "earth and sun" metaphor that i read. Way back in the day, people saw the sun coming up in the east and then setting in the west. naturally, they presumed that WE must be revolving around the sun. Now we know that its just an erroneus perspective. While it sure SEEMED like we were going around the sun, it was actually the other way around. Just like it SEEMS that our consciousness is "inside" our physical body. But those in the know are aware that our consciousness is actually more like a lens with which we are observing this physical reality. when you project, you are simply switching from being "physical-observer" to "mental-observer". that is, you change your perception from the physical to what we call our subconscious or imagination.

Heres a way to explain it even better. On a day to day basis we interact with 2 areas of consciousness. F1, the physical, and F2, the imagination/subconscious/yadda yadda. Imagine a tree in your minds eye. What you are doing is creating a mini-rundown of sorts within your F2. Normally, we are situated within the physical and its sort of like you are on the outside(F1, sitting in a chair reading my post) looking in(your tree in F2). When we phase all we do is change our awareness so we are actually observing F2. You are "there" so to speak.

Quote
How do you go from Focus 2 to Focus 3? And in Focus 2, is it so that you can like ask someone what the jackpot number for the 72 millions in the "Lottery Shop" is? And explore all places there is in our physical world?


To answer this you have to have a basic understanding of subtle subjective energy. There are many techniques that deal with changing your focus of awareness, you could try Franks "slot method", but i dont have a link on that one. And yes, theoretically it is possible to win the lottery, but like i said theres so much subjective energy that the chance of winning is probably BETTER if you just guess the numbers like everyone else; unless you know what your doing and i dont think any human has gotten that far. Its the same reason that you might try the "card trick" and see a different card than the one you started with. yes ive read about that chick who said she did it but 1) theres no proof and 2) if she DID win it was probably unbelievable luck.

Quote
for me, the basic flaws of people saying that one doesn't leave the body are the claims and validations of people in NDE state perceiving clouds coming out of a dying person's body, and the sudden weight loss of a dead body compared to the formerly living body.


Its all objectifications. NDEs are tricky because they play alot off the beliefs of the individual. A christian might see rays of light and angels flying around while a muslim might see different things. Remember the golden rule for the "astral" is THOUGHT = ACTION so if you have the slightest inkling that you might see rays of light or angels, you will. The reason for this is the environment for NDE experiences is probably very similar to the RTZ- if not the same thing. Its more subjective than our physical world so if THOUGHTS = ACTION or THOUGHTS = REALITY then you can see where it would lead.

Hope i cleared up some things for yall Wink
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2005, 04:15:01 »

Well that is at least the claim, however it does not match my reality. I would say I am very motivated to see Angels, and if anyone should see them I should. I never did. I have encountered the odd shape shifter, and clearly identified it based of the feel and was easily able to dismiss it.

I have not encountered demons in the astral, but in physical life. Had loads of experiences that went totally against what  expected. Being a Christian I should see heaven, angels, departed people, etc etc only on a few occasions did  I see stuff like this but still never what I expected, so I would say that the usual model that you quote did not seem to be true for me.

How do you explain that.

The whole very quaint little allegory of the sun is basically silly and proves nothing. It is merely a explational trick, but in reality leaving the body or not has nothing to do with the sun and the earth. I could pick any of 1000 cute stories to bolster my adherence, so lets stick with the fact here not allegorical explanations.

The statement that we are not in our body in the first place, I find absurd, it is also a mere mind game, based on no logic, but catch phrases, and pocket philosophy. I would say that there is pretty good hard evidence that we are a spirits inhabiting a shell, body or whatever you choose to call it.

All in all your arguments are not very convincing but seem too far fetched and not based on anything but your word. Kindly explain yourself better.

Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2005, 04:55:47 »

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Well that is at least the claim, however it does not match my reality. I would say I am very motivated to see Angels, and if anyone should see them I should. I never did. I have encountered the odd shape shifter, and clearly identified it based of the feel and was easily able to dismiss it.

Have you ever had an NDE? Are you talking about the physical? What is this about "shape shifters"? are these in the physical or another area of consciousness?

What makes you think that just because you would like to see angels you will see them? beliefs run further than simple desires- you dont consciously dictate your beliefs. you can change them objectively sure- but this is just an objectification of a deeper subjective change im sure.

Quote
I have not encountered demons in the astral, but in physical life. Had loads of experiences that went totally against what expected. Being a Christian I should see heaven, angels, departed people, etc etc only on a few occasions did I see stuff like this but still never what I expected, so I would say that the usual model that you quote did not seem to be true for me.

When/how did you experience demons in the physical world? You realize that claiming this makes you a)the first person in recorded history to see demons on earth or b)crazy.

if you tell me that you are A, i laugh and tell you to get medicine. Schizophrenia is a tricky thing to deal with.

Quote
The whole very quaint little allegory of the sun is basically silly and proves nothing. It is merely a explational trick, but in reality leaving the body or not has nothing to do with the sun and the earth. I could pick any of 1000 cute stories to bolster my adherence, so lets stick with the fact here not allegorical explanations.


I actually find that fairly helpful in explaining the phasing model. "It is merely a explational trick, but in reality leaving the body or not has nothing to do with the sun and the earth." Havent learned about metaphors in english class yet? sorry about that. Since you obviously arent educated enough to understand my metaphor, i will explain it further. My metaphors point was that things are not as they seem. There is no way for you to prove that we are "in" our bodies just as much as there was no way for a person to prove that the sun revolved around us. Soon enough this WILL be discovered, JUST LIKE how we discovered that in actuality we revolved around the sun. Does the metaphor make sense now?

Hard evidence? On the contrary, science is discovering more and more each day about this. We are now to the point that we know how stimuli is filtered through the body into the brain. Here read this:

Quote
Brain, Body, Environment
going from what my last post was all about we'll go into a bit more about the brain, and it's relation to the body, environment, and ultimately you. IMHO, most of what we experience is second hand. why do i say this? well, kosh broke it down pretty well with his post containing the ear and sound, electro chemical signals. this whole observable reality that i percieve is simply a reconstruction in my mind, based off of sensory information provided by my body, which is in direct contact with the environment. taste, touch, hearing, sight, smell; these are all the same relative signals, yet they're channeled to and processed by different areas of the brain. this distinguishes one from another, and then translates it into the experience that we know of as taste, touch, etc. our experience of it, such as me touching this keyboard, is based off the brains processing of certains signals in certain regions, relayed by the nervous system. our consciousness collectively percieves this.

to demonstrate the similar nature of these signals one can look at conditions such as synaesthesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia), been mentioned here before. basically "A synaesthete may, for example, hear colors, see sounds, and taste tactile sensations. Although this may happen in a person who has autism, it is by no means exclusive to autists. Synaesthesia is a common effect of some hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD or mescaline." and "Synaesthesia can even occur when one of the senses no longer functions properly, e.g., a person who can see colours when words are spoken can still see the colours if he becomes blind in later life." so what does all this mean? that tho our brain seperates these signals and we categorize them as different senses it's all in nature the same thing. so our "sensory discrimination" so to speak, or the seperate perception of these signals, is illusory. simply a figment of our imagination based on the wiring of the brain, similar to how someone may see gnomes following them due to some abnormal neurological wiring or maybe brain damage, or if your really tripping. as stated, this wiring can be changed, or the change experienced on hallucinogenic drugs. the true nature of our reality could be completely different from what we percieve.

to expand on the nature of our reality and what we percieve, think of light and what's visual to us and whats not. infrared, ultraviolet, etc, these frequencies of light aren't visible to the eye. but the spectrum of light we percieve as colors are. there's frequencies that operate outside of our perceptive capabilities. in order to percieve these we create instruments to compensate, to allow us to see the other portions of this bandwidth. another is visible scale, for instance atoms, molecules, chemicles, single celled organisms and the like. thinking of sound your limited once again to a certain frequency, dog whistles for instance operate mainly on a frequency outside of our audiable perception, but in that of a dogs. many animals have been attributed with sensory perception that exceeds ours, giving them a unique perception somewhat alien to our own.

- so in brief summary: the body is in contact with the environment. the body recieves information about it's environment through various senses. these senses are limited to a certain frequency range. they relay sensory information along nerves to the brain. through the wiring of the brain and nervous system, these signals are routed to various areas of the brain correlating to their origins. these are all subsequently processed and then all contribute their own portion to the combined reality that we are consciously aware of and presented with.

this is a lot like plato's allegory of the cave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato'...ory_of_the_cave) you can think of the chains forcing our perception to the wall as the wiring of the body and brain forcing our perception of our environment as we see it. amazing thoughts tho, esp for being written so long ago.

now the environment we're in contact with and experiencing with our body is made up of matter and the forces that act on it, the four fundamental forces (electromagnetism, gravity, strong and weak nuclear). matter is made up of the atom, which is made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons. as wikipedia puts it "Matter is the material substance that occupies space, has mass, and is composed predominantly of atoms consisting of protons, neutrons, and electrons, that constitutes the observable universe, and that is interconvertible with energy." as you can see they say interconvertible with energy. matter is then simply a dense, contained form of energy. light, or the photon, then being an example of a less contained and less dense form. under string theory, the primary particles which make up matter are simply strings of energy vibrating at certain frequencies. what frequency they vibrate then determines what particle they are. if this is true, then everything is energy, simply manifested in many different forms, constantly in a state of transfer, of change, acting on eachother and interacting.

wave-particle duality, heard this a few times by now im sure, this pretty much states that particles, that which compose matter, can be observed in 2 forms. waves and particles, due to the intent of the observer. if your intent is to find the location of the particle, you observe it as a particle and locate it. but if you wish to find the speed of the particle it then interferes as a wave does, and you can't determine it's location. so you can have one or the other, speed or location, not both. this is then reflected in the "probability cloud" model of the atom, and how the electron has a probability to appear within a certain distance of the nucleus. further from the nucleus, the lower the probability. when it drops below a 90% probability of an electron appearing in that location the size of the atom is determined.

according to wikipedia once again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave) "A wave is a disturbance that propagates, carrying energy. Apart from electromagnetic radiation, and probably gravitational radiation, which can travel through vacuum, waves exist in a medium..." for those that dont know, light is electromagnetic radiation. this has for a long time posed a question to physicists, why can light go through a vacuum, which is apparently complete nothing. if light is a wave, then it requires a medium, so basically wtf? for a while they thought of ether which had difficulty being implemented, now it's vacuum energy. "Vacuum energy is an underlying background energy that exists in space even when devoid of matter." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy) zero point energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy)is another concept of this vacuum energy. superstring theory has branes, higher dimensional objects and open strings then have their ends rooted so to speak within these branes. so the strings of our universe would be rooted to our universes brane. when 2 branes collide, they spark a big bang, or so it is hypothesized, or something like that. this theory of universes beginning can be seen in brief summary here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1270726.stm for those so inclined.

- in my own brief summary: the environment is made up of matter and the forces that act upon matter. matter demonstrates wave and particle properties. without a fix on location it demonstrates wave properties and propagates through the background, vacuum energy (perhaps a brane, who knows), at X speed. once the location of these energy disturbances is known, or perceived by us, it displays particle properties. it has a percieved, set, solid point location as a particle, which can crash into eachother, based on the intent of the observer. "particles when your looking, waves when your not" type thing. so from one perspective, on one level, the universe is void of all solid substance. it consists of disturbance propagations throughout this background medium, zero point or vacuum energy, the canvus. much like waves moving throughout the ocean, liquid, abstract. on the level of our perception, the universe seems solid, instead of interference its defined contact, collision. seemingly seperated. even tho it'd be fun, if i run against the wall i dont propagate through it. isnt that a grump.
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« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2005, 04:55:47 »



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Mustardseed
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2005, 11:50:21 »

Have you ever had an NDE? Yes I have Are you talking about the physical? Yes I am What is this about "shape shifters"? are these in the physical or another area of consciousness?They appear to be some sort of astral wildlife, lower category spirit beings, sometimes they may be your own creations, ask around

What makes you think that just because you would like to see angels you will see them? Your post above did that beliefs run further than simple desires- you don't consciously dictate your beliefs. you can change them objectively sure- but this is just an objectification of a deeper subjective change I'm sure. ummmmm huh

When/how did you experience demons in the physical world? Come on Ben take a deep breath You realize that claiming this makes you a)the first person in recorded history to see demons on earth or b)crazy.You know Ben you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. I have been working for a good many years with possessed people, in countries where this thing occur, and have been helping folks that way, talking to demons. Nothing so special about that, do a bit of research

if you tell me that you are A, i laugh and tell you to get medicine. Schizophrenia is a tricky thing to deal with. Well In my opinion sarcasm and pride tend to be pretty bad as well
Quote


Haven't learned about metaphors in English class yet? Why the biting irony Ben sorry about that. Since you obviously aren't educated enough to understand my metaphor,Ha so sweet i will explain it further. My metaphors point was that things are not as they seem. There is no way for you to prove that we are "in" our bodies just as much as there was no way for a person to prove that the sun revolved around us. Soon enough this WILL be discovered, Ohhh I see so soon it will be discovered. Since when did you have the ability to see into the future my friend, this is an assumption a guess and that's all your metaphor which I call allegory due to the fact that I am not a native English speaker is used in a very wrong way. You use your metaphor to back up an argument. It does not work like that . I could add many metaphors to explain the opposite, instead of fiction try facts or any other way. Or be honest and admit that you really have no idea but are guessing. Then we could just compare notes and guess together, "I think this what do you think well how about that wow never thought about it interesting etc " but saying  ..........."Soon enough this WILL be discovered" is silly and nothing but a guess you don't know that do you?

Hard evidence? On the contrary, science is discovering more and more each day about this. We are now to the point that we know how stimuli is filtered through the body into the brain. Here read this: sorry Ben .....no time no interest I skimmed through it that's all I had energy for. Instead Ben relax as I said take a deep breath stop being so angry and sarcastic, and lets just chat as friends, I have no beef with you, I appreciate you have a faith in this but I do so far not share it.....big deal. I am curious but not so easily swayed by your arguments. They are more like scolding .....feels like the fundamentalists in church come to think about it...wonder why that is
Regards Mustardseed

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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2005, 22:22:47 »

hmm....if you have no interest thats not my problem. And i dont have faith...read my sig. Faith is self deception Wink And about the demon thing...like I have said before the human mind is a very powerful thing...i doubt these people are making up what they say happens to them, but instead they have developed some pretty whackey belief constructs, and im glad you are there to help them. But it all boils down to fear of the unknown.

Anyway, im sorry my tone comes off as angry or sarcastic, it is a subject im pretty passionate about. Anyway i have a favor to ask of you. could you give a brief description of your NDE experience? Ive read MANY of these and i would love to hear yours to stack it up with the rest.

PS I DO know for a fact that this will be discovered...but theres nothing i can tell you that will change your beliefs, so the best i can do is tell you to wait and see for yourself!
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« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2005, 23:45:12 »

Dear Ben

Someone just brought this to my attention. I guess I was as busy as were you. Now this is good fun, this is hilarious and thanks to you I think I am going to have a really good day, steadfast in the faith that there is nothing to fear. The universe planets and stars are safe things are rotating according to their own plan no matter what you or I think say or believe. This is a quote from your post to me earlier on you said....

 I like to use the old "earth and sun" metaphor that i read. Way back in the day, people saw the sun coming up in the east and then setting in the west. naturally, they presumed that WE must be revolving around the sun. Now we know that its just an erroneous perspective. While it sure SEEMED like we were going around the sun, it was actually the other way around.

We know nothing Ben, we assume we guess we try to grasp and yet we know nothing. Not me not you......but we are funny especially when we are trying so hard. Ha take a good laugh at yourself and join the club we are the funniest things ever made.

Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2005, 12:56:08 »

Mustardseed_ you are really going off on a tangent on all this. Fine, we all know what you think. Great. There's such a thing as labouring a point!

Doug
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« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2005, 13:13:52 »

In my view, MS is going through what I call a 'belief system crash' when he finds all his old beliefs under attack, seemingly from the outside but also and more importantly, from the inside... this can be a traumatic time and a time of denial. I know, this has happened to me in the past.

Just a possiblility.
Also, you only seem to be taking a surface approach with phasing as a model, which is quite irritating. Have you ever looked at it in depth?

One of the more obvious things that people realise once they get a bit of experience with the astral is, what you believe becomes your reality. However, it is not as simple as surface level wish fulfilment. Sometimes these are things on a subconscious level which you may not be comfortable on a 'surface' level.. so the idea that its a simple case of wishing for angels and then wondering why you dont see any, is very simplistic. The mind is a very complicated thing. You seem unwilling to put any thought into this however, i believe, because you are worried about your beliefs are undermined.

Why are you so concerned?
I am comfrotable with what i know of the phasing model so far, esp. as its a model not the reality. You seem to be unwilling to recognise this and make claims for phasing which it does not claim to have. What's more, the phasing model has been very useful in my own explorations and confirmed many of my own personal experiences. I find it superior to older models and religions which are inferior, in my view as they put so little emphasis on personal experience and so much on taking someone elses word for it. THAT is why i feel phasing model is better, as it only claims to be a guide, and whats more it is constantly changing and updating as new knowledge and explorations become available.. what religion does that?

However, you can do what you like. But as phasing is the latest, and in the view of many experienced projectors here, the best astral exploration method and model out there, it is appropriate to promote it here.
Furthermore, nobody has a monopoly on 'phasing'. Sure people can write books about it to provide pointers, which is what is happening here and as these people have loads of projecting experience, i think this is great. But you dont have to buy them.. these people provide plenty of help here for nothing and have done so for years.. and there is plenty of info on the web already ..you can begin you explorations right now.. and rely on nobody.

Do what you like... please!

Doug
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« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2005, 20:40:53 »

Yes...and mustardseed you should know that what we call "phasing" has actually been used for thousands of years by mystics, yogis etc etc. Its just now in modern times that we have started to objectively explore these other realms. Just like in modern times we have started to objectively explore the physical world.
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« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2005, 12:16:45 »

In my view, MS is going through what I call a 'belief system crash' when he finds all his old beliefs under attack, seemingly from the outside but also and more importantly, from the inside... this can be a traumatic time and a time of denial. I know, this has happened to me in the past. So let me try to understand you here you say that I am denial, because I do not understand nor right off the bat embrace Phasing as a explanational model, I am traumatized by my ..... ehh mind, in other words I really do believe you inside but will not let my self admit to it. This is psycho babble my friend . It is nonsense and besides how do you expect to be taken serious if  you attempt to assassinate peoples characer if they do not submit to your superior wisdom.....get a grip my friend
Just a possibility. Maybe in your world, not in mine
Also, you only seem to be taking a surface approach with phasing as a model, which is quite irritating. Ha so is that it I irritate you......Have you ever looked at it in depth? Naturally I have my friend. This is my contention that phasing is a shallow way of understanding the astral experience, and a deeper approach is needed. Have you read my posts at all
One of the more obvious things that people realize once they get a bit of experience Once they get a bit of experience....oh mighty wizard, come on Doug what is that if not condescending, I ave plenty of experience. You guys keep on talking to me and everyone else as if you are the only ones who have experiences again....get a grip.with the astral is, what you believe becomes your reality. However, it is not as simple as surface level wish fulfillment. Who talks about surface wish, that is your assumption, you have not got the foggiest idea of what I am how my life is lived my reality or anything about me, yet you judge my experience and inferior because I have not arrived at your own conclusion and my wishes as surface and shallow for the same reason. Sometimes these are things on a subconscious level which you may not be comfortable on a 'surface' level.. DUH again Doug come on I am fully aware of the creations of the subconscious.....silly boy....stop it  cheesy so the idea that its a simple case of wishing for angels and then wondering why you don't see any, is very simplistic. The mind is a very complicated thing. You don't tell me..really You seem unwilling to put any thought into this however, i believe, because you are worried about your beliefs are undermined. Well all I can say is that you have no idea of what I think

Why are you so concerned? Let me ask you just so I understand Are you asking why I am so concerned with the reality of life, why we have OBEs and how they come about and why
I am comfortable with what i know of the phasing model so far, esp. as its a model not the reality. You seem to be unwilling to recognize this and make claims for phasing which it does not claim to have. What's more, the phasing model has been very useful in my own explorations and confirmed many of my own personal experiences. I find it superior to older models and religions which are inferior, in my view as they put so little emphasis on personal experience and so much on taking someone elses word for it. THAT is why i feel phasing model is better, as it only claims to be a guide, and whats more it is constantly changing and updating as new knowledge and explorations become available.. what religion does that? I did not realize we were in this to pick a religion that fulfilled our needs the best nor to become adherents to some way of thinking because it claims to have all the answers. Is that why you adhere to it because it is the most "comfortable" and through it you have a nice box to fit everything into?

However, you can do what you like. Thanks But as phasing is the latest, and in the view of many experienced projectors here, the best astral exploration method and model out there, it is appropriate to promote it here. No problem with it at all as a explorational model I use it myself, My beef is with it as a explational model to spiritual realities, spirits, the afterlife spiritual phenomena etcFurthermore, nobody has a monopoly on 'phasing'. Sure people can write books about it to provide pointers, which is what is happening here and as these people have loads of projecting experience, i think this is great. But you don't have to buy them.. these people provide plenty of help here for nothing and have done so for years.. and there is plenty of info on the web already ..you can begin you explorations right now.. and rely on nobody.

Do what you like... please

Thanks Doug I will naturally I wish you all the best as well. I found no real answers to my questions in this thread so I will not bother you anymore. I did however find plenty of you, ha All I saw was a couple of young and to my understanding very un experienced people, taking on the air of experts, throwing around terms and rather grandiose claims. I have been trying to be nice but honestly after all I have seen of you, your cutting sarcasm, vicious criticism and proud approach I have decided to maybe look else where for information.....as they say the truth is out there. This will most likely thrill you I am sure and most likely many others with you. I find it so incredibly funny that you Doug just a young student who chooses a wizard with a pointed hat as an avatar really believe that you are in a position to expound at such length on reality. Besides that you and Ben seem to have no sense of humor.......but who knows maybe some day I will, as Ben said in that earlier post, come to understand the fallacy of the notion that we rotate around the sun, I guess when you really have that much ego the sun moon and stars most certainly rotate around you.

Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2005, 14:14:13 »

Well, its getting pretty boring listening to all your moaning now Mustardseed. I think you have said all you need to say. I won't be looking at this thread again.

Doug
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2005, 15:50:48 »

we both know that's not true, you are reading this right now ain't you.......................... cheesy GOTCHA Mr wizard....remember .....have a little laugh at yourself now and then. We all do so join the fun!!!
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« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2005, 17:55:16 »

True...

 wink
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« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2005, 21:16:47 »

OK, time to wrap this up.  It's been going nowhere fast for a while and lost its original meaning a while ago.

Hence I'm locking it.

Sarah
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