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Author Topic: ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIER’S Riveting Case Against Bringing Syrian Refugees To U.S.  (Read 10523 times)
PlasmaAstralProjection
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« on: November 30, 2015, 02:00:46 »

This is what I'm talking about many Muslim cultures still has a lot of growing up to do compared to the rest of us.

ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIER’S Riveting Case Against Bringing Syrian Refugees To U.S. Goes Viral 100percentfedup.com/active-duty-soldiers-riveting-case-against-bringing-syrian-refugees-to-u-s-goes-viral/#
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Xanth
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 17:13:47 »

There is no case where helping people in need is the wrong thing to do.  NEVER.

The only reason you don't help when you can is because you've allowed FEAR into your heart and allowed it to blossom.
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 17:13:47 »

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Stillwater
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 20:35:05 »

I don't want to really make this a political issue, but please excuse me here.

I think that the refugees should be helped by some means, and that means should take into account balance, efficiency, and the well being of all parties involved. As an example, it is much cheaper to provide resources to relocate many of the refugees to nearby safe countries to which they bear some cultural similarity, and thus face much lower barriers to getting employment and living situations.

It is estimated that the cost of bringing a non-English or French speaking family to the US is around 250k USD; this is primarily in terms of the social services it would take to get these folks off their feet to the extent that they could culturally integrate. Some are estimating that a sum of around 30k USD might be spent per family to help relocate them to countries such as Turkey, Iran (Iran is a much safer and more well off country than you might suppose it is, due to western propaganda against it), and Lebanon, and to provide them with the right services in these countries to get them established in normal lives there. I am not opposed to bringing smaller numbers of Syrians to North America, if they already speak the languages, as these are the folks that have an intention of actually becoming western citizens.

Historically, and in a few recent examples it has been shown that when large incoming populations face major barriers to cultural integration in their host countries, it generates a dangerous situation. An example is Sweden, which took in a number of primarily North Africans totaling something like 3-4% of their total population at the time. These folks in many cases had no way of becoming active citizens, and doing anything other than rely of social service systems there. The rape rate in Sweden has gone up by some estimates by around 800% during this same period, making it the rape capital of the west; something like 75-80% of this increase is attributed directly to the recent migrants. It is also less and less safe to be a Jew, or to have a Synagogue in that area. Other metrics of poverty and human suffering have increased as well across the board. I think the path Sweden has taken indicates that the service of underpriveliged populations is not something that can be done without extensive planning or study. Just giving the greenlight to a similar mass exchange of people, without plans for how to best integrate them into their destination countries should be avoided.

I think it comes down to the fact that impoverished people will express the worst parts of their culture, whereas thriving people will question the cultural norms they had in the past. This group of people can go either way, depending on how the situation is handled. Going back to the example of Iran, it is home to one of the most secularized and moderate populations of Muslims in that region. The historical government still continues to be radicalized, but the people there are increasingly less so, and I attribute this to the industrial success of large parts of that country at this time, which has taken people out of poverty to the extent that they can think for themselves. 
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 20:49:09 »

There is no case where helping people in need is the wrong thing to do.  NEVER.

The only reason you don't help when you can is because you've allowed FEAR into your heart and allowed it to blossom.
 shocked  Oh yeah why don't we go over there and help ISIS while were at it, and give them a home too?  Why not let the psychos and rapists out of prison? Where do you draw the line? Lastly did you even fully read the link I sent you?

Look I am all for helping these Syrian refugees. I think it's our duty to help. But that doesn't mean that we have to take them in over here. Our rape victims would go up dramatically if we took in any good sized amount of refugees. I'm just taking the side of the soldier that should know what their culture is like.
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Xanth
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 01:53:43 »

 shocked  Oh yeah why don't we go over there and help ISIS while were at it, and give them a home too?  Why not let the psychos and rapists out of prison? Where do you draw the line? Lastly did you even fully read the link I sent you?

Look I am all for helping these Syrian refugees. I think it's our duty to help. But that doesn't mean that we have to take them in over here. Our rape victims would go up dramatically if we took in any good sized amount of refugees. I'm just taking the side of the soldier that should know what their culture is like.
Read what you just wrote.  Read it VERY carefully.

Fear.
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 01:53:43 »



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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 08:07:34 »

Read what you just wrote.  Read it VERY carefully.

Fear.
I think you have lost your way slightly in your spiritual path. If I have to use a little bit of fear to prevent a lot of fear, then that is a good trade off. But for you, your no fear will bring more fear. Perhaps not to you, but to others who will receive the brunt of a bad idea of letting Syrian refugees over here. Try telling the rape victims to not fear them. Sorry to sound so blunt, but that is the harsh reality of this world.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 08:10:26 »

Read what you just wrote.  Read it VERY carefully.

Fear.
It's all about balance. There is not one person that is not biased. OK perhaps the Buddha if that is possible. But you get the idea. A little bit of fear here and there will go a long way in prevention of evil things. It's all about balance. Without a little bit of fear, were just a gullible idiot.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 08:15:07 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
Astralsuzy
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 13:08:58 »

It is terrible that people do awful things.   We should remember that there are a lot of kind Muslims.   I would not like it if people hated Australian people because Australian people do terrible things.  Of course, a lot of Australian people are very nice.   It is the same in all societies. 
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Xanth
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 17:17:25 »

I think you have lost your way slightly in your spiritual path. If I have to use a little bit of fear to prevent a lot of fear, then that is a good trade off. But for you, your no fear will bring more fear. Perhaps not to you, but to others who will receive the brunt of a bad idea of letting Syrian refugees over here. Try telling the rape victims to not fear them. Sorry to sound so blunt, but that is the harsh reality of this world.
Again... read what you JUST wrote.

If you have to use a little bit of fear to stop a lot of fear... you don't even realize you're doing it. 
THAT is how much you've allowed fear to rule your reality.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 07:37:01 »

Again... read what you JUST wrote.

If you have to use a little bit of fear to stop a lot of fear... you don't even realize you're doing it. 
THAT is how much you've allowed fear to rule your reality.
According to your logic we shouldn't have a military or police force then. I see where your logic is going. One word - Gullible.
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Xanth
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 08:18:30 »

According to your logic we shouldn't have a military or police force then. I see where your logic is going. One word - Gullible.
You're so caught up in your own FEAR... trying to illicit FEAR in others that you haven't even noticed that I haven't even BOTHERED to touch the subject of your posts... and I won't either, because they're filled with nothing but FEAR.  I've only commented on the theme of your posts.  Nothing more.

You still haven't bothered to actually read what you've written.  Sure, you typed it... but you didn't READ it.  Nothing but Fear.

Stop playing the Fear game Plasma, and you might actually see what's going on.  Until then, I think I'm done in this thread. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 08:20:09 by Xanth » Logged

PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 08:46:21 »

You're so caught up in your own FEAR... trying to illicit FEAR in others that you haven't even noticed that I haven't even BOTHERED to touch the subject of your posts... and I won't either, because they're filled with nothing but FEAR.

You still haven't bothered to actually read what you've written.  Sure, you typed it... but you didn't READ it.  Nothing but Fear.

Stop playing the Fear game Plasma, and you might actually see what's going on.  Until then, I think I'm done in this thread.  
Yes I did read my posts, and I admit that there is a thread of fear in my posts, and I don't see anything wrong with that since it's rooted in logic and sound reasoning. And I believe that you won't touch the subject of my posts at this point not because they are smothered in fear metaphorically speaking as you seem to be claiming, but because you don't want to look like bad at this point for not supporting our defense agencies like the police force and the military.

You can't hide behind the veil of spirituality to fool me into believing that it's not OK to use a little bit of fear rooted in reasoning to protect ourselves sometimes. I don't change my mind based off weak logic, and poor explanation.

I would like Szaxx to chime in here. I always trust him and he always has a good way of explaining things in terms I can understand.

Regardless of our differences Xanth you know I will always respect what you have done here at the pulse. Wink
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 08:49:36 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 09:54:18 »

The best way to help the people in Syria would be to end the war and help them rebuild their own nation where they already are.

I can't say I agree with the US's recent policy of funding rebels to overthrow legitimate governments (such as was also done in Libya and formerly in Latin and South American nations, not to mention the US State Department's role in the Ukrainian coup).  Putin makes a good point that there are no international laws that make it okay to just go around unilaterally blowing up the leaders of a foreign nations just because we don't like them.  Saddam Hussein is a case in point, as well as Gaddafi.  It creates an untenable precedent for international diplomacy and there is no international body approving any of this stuff that the US is doing.

Here are some interesting numbers:

Quote
1 in 4 Swedish Women Will Be Raped as Sexual Assaults Increase 500%

Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000 is six times higher than the United States. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women will be raped.
[...]
Sweden's population grew from 9 million to 9.5 million in the years 2004-2012, mainly due to immigration from "countries like Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia". 16 percent of all newborns have mothers born in non-Western countries. Employment rate among immigrants: 54 percent.
[...]
In 2003, Sweden's rape statistics were higher than average at 9.24, but in 2005 they shot up to 36.8 and by 2008 were up to 53.2. Now they are almost certainly even higher as Muslim immigrants continue forming a larger percentage of the population.



http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/175434/1-4-swedish-women-will-be-raped-sexual-assaults-daniel-greenfield


I suppose Jesus would tell the Swedes to turn the other cheek, but in this case that would make for a pretty inappropriate pun.   undecided


Historically, and in a few recent examples it has been shown that when large incoming populations face major barriers to cultural integration in their host countries, it generates a dangerous situation. An example is Sweden, which took in a number of primarily North Africans totaling something like 3-4% of their total population at the time. These folks in many cases had no way of becoming active citizens, and doing anything other than rely of social service systems there. The rape rate in Sweden has gone up by some estimates by around 800% during this same period, making it the rape capital of the west; something like 75-80% of this increase is attributed directly to the recent migrants. It is also less and less safe to be a Jew, or to have a Synagogue in that area. Other metrics of poverty and human suffering have increased as well across the board. I think the path Sweden has taken indicates that the service of underpriveliged populations is not something that can be done without extensive planning or study. Just giving the greenlight to a similar mass exchange of people, without plans for how to best integrate them into their destination countries should be avoided.

I want to emphasize the term "cultural integration" here.  This is really the heart of the matter, because many of the Islamic states that these immigrants grew up in have very different value systems than the secular west.  Women don't have the same rights for one thing (only recently gained the right to drive in Saudi Arabia), and tend to be looked down upon more, which likely has a lot to do with the increase in rape in Sweden.  Other countries are seeing similar problems and Germany's friendly "welcome culture" has had to take a step back as Merkel's own ministers are having to take a stand to enforce the EU rule that refugees must first seek asylum in the first nation they enter when coming into the EU, which in this case would be nations in the more Muslim southeastern region of Europe.

The clash between the very different cultures interacting here should really encourage people to (1) stop these wars in the Middle East that are dislocating millions of people and destroying their national infrastructure, and (2) help these people in their own nations after we have solved the root problem, which is war itself.  What I mean is that ending western support for the war should be the #1 issue and priority if we really want to help people out.  As unfortunate as it is for so many people to lose their homes, I would rather lose my home than die or have family members killed, but this is exactly what the war in Syria is doing.  Christians, Muslims and Jews all lived together in peace under the Assad regime.  What the US started over there is not helping, and if the "rebels" topple the Assad regime then we are admittedly going to see a fundamentalist theocratic regime, probably like the Muslim Brotherhood that took over in Egypt but was swiftly kicked back out by the Egyptian people.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:06:36 by no_leaf_clover » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 17:00:47 »

The wisdom is in these words.

The best way to help the people in Syria would be to end the war and help them rebuild their own nation where they already are.

I know a few guys from Persia, they don't like the way that things have changed in their homeland and use Persia through choice.
The problems with the myriads of cults, creeds and religions stem from historic origins. Unlike the technological growth over the last century, nobody wants the 'new thing' when it comes to social interaction between creeds etc.
It's an unfortunate state of affairs and the only cure us to allow time to do its thing.
Migrating people through the ages have localised themselves into areas and carried on with what they're used to. This includes all aspects of their ways, in the UK, curry is the favourite dish. I've not heard anyone complain about this. However a few blue bloods still want the country to be as it was in the dark ages.
A worldwide ban on religion and a new set of 'commandments' made into law with a death penalty seems the only option to some hardliners. It may sort out a few problems in our world, it would also be so destructive it would create a pandemic leading to the end of the world through civil war.
Greed, power and control issues need to be resolved before anything else and today's method uses force rather than diplomacy.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 17:46:05 »

OK just to be clear in the recap, me, Stillwater, no_leaf_clover, Szaxx seem to agree that taking in refugees is a bad idea, and that helping them by some other means is best. While Xanth seems to be indirectly implying that we are fearful for not taking them into our country, even though we want to help them in their own country or similar countries. Then Astralsuzy seems to be indirectly implying that if we don't take them into our own country that we must hate them. BTW Astralsuzy yes I do realize that there are kind Muslims, but sometimes some bad apples spoil the rest.

Am I missing anything? Sorry to be so blunt, and to the point. That is just the way I am. grin
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 19:25:04 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 17:55:06 »

And thanks to all you for chiming in making this a lively debate.
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 06:24:10 »

To be honest I do not know if we should take them in to a country.   It is something I never thought about because it is too hard.   What would we do with all the people and what problems can occur.   I think people should be helped.    They cannot be left to rot somewhere.  I am glad you think not everyone is awful.   There are a lot of people who put them into the same category, they are all bad.
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