Difference between drugs and meditating?

[Donal]

We all know that they can produce a high. though the drug high can get active (ie moving about) but with meditation your making your body to go to sleep and calming your mind. If you move about during medittation you won't project, while you can do that with illeggal drugs, Cannabis, reefer, ectasy and the like.

What do you think is the difference between the two. And People say that drugs produce hallucinations, but are they real or not?

[CFTraveler]

Setting aside issues of legality, health, etc.  One thing is the issue of control.  Drugs decrease self-control, which is why you can achieve an altered state without trying to self induce it, so it follows if you are trying to OBE or AP consciously, it may backfire, because you won't be in charge-(you, as in your conscious mind) but your subconscious, or the drug itself.  So you might be able to AP, but it won't help you achieve any kind of control over your projection.  And, depending on the drug, will you even be able to remember it?

[jalef]

i think this describes the situation quite good:

you are standing on a 5 meters springboard in a swimming pool. if you project consciously and by own efford thats as if you are jumping on your own into the water. if you take drugs thats as if someone hits you and you fall down into the water. just like CF said, you loose self control and control over the experience.

[Stookie]

You can alter your state of consciousness through both drugs and meditation. But there is a huge difference in the fact that meditation is done by will and intention, and the state can be broken whenever the person wants come out of it. The state of mind a person is in during meditation would be much clearer and with less chance of delusion. Other than maybe in older shamanic cultures, I don't see drugs as a valid means of reaching non-physical perception.

[greatoutdoors]

For me, drugs would throw an uncertainty factor into the mix that I totally don't need. How hard is it already to distinguish what is "real" from what may be just a garden-variety dream, a delusion, or a case of wishful thinking. Why add another layer of confusion?

Besides, I don't need drugs to do what I can darn well do myself!  :exclamation: IMO using a drug crutch is the same as those idiots who get in a car to drive across the street. We were given certain mental and physical abilities in this life. We can choose to use and develop them, or we can blow it off and take the easy path.

CF Traveler, I also agree there are other reasons, and good ones, to avoid drugs as much as possible (recreational and otherwise), but like you, I am not going into that area here.

[Rob]

The altered states drugs put you in to can be extreme in certain directions compared to those gotten to through meditation and other practices, ie moves you in a different way. Magical state of consciousness is likewise a very extreme place to be, but you are still much more "you" (normally - magical states in nature can lead to what might be walk in scenarios with elementals which is very different!!!). With drugs you change much more in fundamental levels, which can be useful, or might not be (eg it might change a certain attitude in you which causes you to approach problems in a new way and you then continue this later). And kinda the direction is something you might not think of yourself...
Yeah I find this important - drugs put you into states you would not be able to reach before because you have never experienced them. A good drug fuelled experience will sorta open you up to many new areas of mind, which will stay with you even afterwards. Its like expanding your reportoire, and (cliches aside) expanding the mind. The unfortunately real flipside to this is that some people can get into really really bad states of mind, which can also stay with them, leading to nasty psychological problems. Have seen this happen twice to friends of mine, it aint pretty. However, I we have also discovered some excellent things, and the memories and knowledge gained will be with me forever.

[HD]

i feel drugs are a viable option, specificly certain tryptamines and phenethylamines. MDMA is good for group emotional therapy... like bonding with your mom after years of fighting...

but the tryptamines and phenethylamines is where the real magic takes place... these are the tool of the ancient shamanistic cultures.

but these paths are not for the faint of heart.
remember, these shamans did not live our lives, they lived simple, rural lives... mostly by themselves or with their teacher. the strains of society were not a part of their program.

do you think you could take LSD several times a week for years on end? i can assure you, it will take much practice in order to become adept at using these substances...
and this practice will slowly tear you to pieces.
most shaman were half crazy anyways, atleast according to "society".....

so if you are not worried about wandering the streets in your underwear with a tin foil hat.. then by all means... begin your practicing....
if you can retreat from society, you stand a better chance (of not getting arrested or locked away). but when all is said and done, you will probably have an extremely hard time relating with anyone aside from those on your path.

these drugs are certainly not crutches... to properly use them takes just as much work and will power as meditation, but they are deceptive because they offer instant results...
but there lies the double edged sword...
without the mental fortitude to withstand this instant results, too much stress can be applied to ones psychological state.

ive been down this road before, and i had to abort things eventually due to lack of a true teacher, and difficulties with society.
not to mention its hard on the body... so much puking.... and most of those plants NEVER taste any better, they just start tasting worse and worse.
the mere SMELL of ayahuasca makes me gag.

anyways, if you are still interested, or would like to dabble, then get away from the kiddy excrement (MDMA, THC, ETC) and look to south america... Mushrooms, ayahuasca, are 2 good sources. ayahuasca is an orally active form of DMT.... the grand father of ALL tryptamines (LSD and Mushrooms fall under this umbrella)

in the Phenethylamine family we have cacti, such as peyote or san pedro.....

i prefer natural plant sources, but i also used to aquire synthetic sources... but they were legal back then, i dunno if they are around anymore.. 5-meo-DIPT, 2-ct-7, etc....

all the important chemical allies can be found and extracted from plants, these plants are readily available online... just gotta do your homework...

Required reading
Pihkal by shuglan
Tikal by shuglan
and the teaching of don juan by carlos castinada.
and seperate reality by castinada...
i actually found seperate reality to be a better book, but plant substances are not the main focus.

Good luck, may your will be stronger than mine.

-HD