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Author Topic: does religion stop a individual growing spiritually  (Read 2806 times)
Cool101
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« on: March 13, 2016, 15:16:53 »

I was just wondering because throughout history it's created so much unneeded war
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 22:30:48 »

I was just wondering because throughout history it's created so much unneeded war
Not all religions are created equally. Yes some religions stop people from growing spiritually and naturally as a human. I call this the ceiling effect in ones growth. Meaning they can only grow so much and then they stop growing. This happens in closed loop religions that can't be changed according to new information. Such as the Koran, Bible and the like. I believe in Collaborative Open-Source Religion.
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 22:30:48 »

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Xanth
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2016, 17:17:32 »

I was just wondering because throughout history it's created so much unneeded war
The "religion" itself is relatively meaningless... what matters is how you apply their teachings to your life.

It's like if someone comes up to you, says that they're Christian... then does un-Christianly things.
Don't tell me you're religious... SHOW ME you're religious.

Although, there will come a point where you will stagnate spiritually along a religious path... mostly because religion is about following someone else's ideals/concepts.
To continue growing, you have to shed OTHER people's ideals and find your own.
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2016, 23:07:30 »

People can stop growing without religion.

Some religions have created a lot of war, not all of them.  Three in particular come to mind, all said to be founded by a man named Abraham.   tongue
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Volgerle
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 01:19:55 »

for thousands of years organised religion has been used for social control

that's why I do not recommend it

 cheesy cool
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PhaseEvolution
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 13:37:51 »

I can say for me personally the answer was "Yes". I was part of a fundamentalist religion for about 30 years, completely brainwashed and entrenched. I will spare you the details of my leaving, but in the years since, I have progressed probably 100 times more than in all my years as a part of that religion. That will obviously not be the case for everyone, but that was my experience.
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 10:51:17 »

People can stop growing without religion.

Some religions have created a lot of war, not all of them.  Three in particular come to mind, all said to be founded by a man named Abraham.   tongue

Is there any spiritual virtue in the hot trend of religion bashing? Are religions not simply organized collective spiritual practice? And what is wrong with that? And doesn't this very website fit the definition of a religion, with the likes of you as priest? If you mean organized religions that have been infiltrated, poisoned, and misused as a means of mind control, I don't think even the most ardent zelot would agree that this is something good. Yes, conquerors have used religion as an excuse to make war. Does that make religion itself insideous? Being that historically most wars have been secular, are you also bent on the dissolution of all factors that spawned (or were pawns of) secular wars? Have you given up money yet? The "religion is bad because it has caused wars" rhetoric is parroted propaganda. Could it be that you are not actually offended by religion, but have been conditioned to be obsessed with a false concept of religion being negative by TPTB who would benifit from a totally secular, amoral world population? I don't think that those who seek the Source are the problem. It's those who are oblivious to It that are. I would never deter anyone from seeking The Infinite in whatever way their Life Contract denotes. No one says that you must subscribe to any religious practices. But I feel that others should be left in peace to practice without being persecuted for their beliefs. I'm well aware that I'm expressing an unpopular opinion. These tend to be the only ones worth expressing.
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Whirlwind
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 11:24:10 »

Being brainwashed into believing that religion is bad is just as bad as being brainwashed into believing that it is good; the New Age crowd loves to persecute mainstream religions, making modern pagans and atheists just as closed-minded and bigoted as their religious counterparts! New Agers hold to as much or more dogma than Abrahamic religions, and are just as sure that they (and no one else) is "right". For Western seekers, the grass is always greener on the other side, their seeking oft unauthentic as it is a direct backlash from rebellion against their childhood religions rather than a sincere desire to experience the reality of Self. The trick is to live and let live and not concern oneself with the belief systems of others, but, rather, with one's own belief systems. Anything else is simply impractical and yields no results. Some people wear crosses around their necks, others crystals. I try not to pay much attention to any of them. And I certainly don't want to stop or encourage them. Sometimes preoccupation with ourselves is the most selfless thing.
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donkeykong
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 21:21:25 »

I was just wondering because throughout history it's created so much unneeded war

Not all wars are created because of religion
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 01:19:00 »

I was just wondering because throughout history it's created so much unneeded war

Actually, most of the religion based war was started by one religion. It started in the Arabian desert and spilled out in a sweeping, continuous LAND GRAB. Just because the first victims of the slaughter were Jews and Christians does not make it a Jewish or Christian War. The Crusades were a simple act of self defense in response to the invasion of Spain and France, Sicily and Italy, Greece and Macedonia, Eastern Europe ... etc. etc. etc.

World War I was a political war started by an assassination. WWII was a political war started by very non religious types. The mass murder in the Soviet Union was perpetrated by an atheist named Stalin. The mass murder in Asia was started by an Atheist named Mao. The mass murder in Cambodia was started by an Atheist named Pol Pot. Mass murder in Africa is generally Tribal in nature (Tutsi vs Hutu, Zulu vs everyone else). On and on and on... most murder and mayhem throughout history was political land grab type action -- Genghis Khan, The Roman Empire, Alexander the Great... all little or NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.

The modern brainwashing of society by Atheist Liars on this topic has been frighteningly effective.

Christianity in particular has been one of the most effective systems of producing Spiritual Giants & Mystics of astounding stature and achievement. Start with Jesus, then St.Francis, Aquinas, St. Catherine, Therese, Hildegard von Bingen, Padre Pio... this is just a tiny list that could go on for many pages.

Why do people so readily and willfully ignore the obvious?


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LightBeam
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2016, 02:20:56 »

All religious people I know have no idea how the multiverse works and us as part of it.
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bungalow
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2016, 04:53:40 »

spirituality is fun on its own but I wouldn't want to get lost. to me religion is just a law, spirituality itself being what is proved. to stick with religion for me I would find it limiting. too much control and authority (if that word works). so zen meditation is my standby.
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Xanth
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2016, 07:10:20 »

spirituality is fun on its own but I wouldn't want to get lost. to me religion is just a law, spirituality itself being what is proved. to stick with religion for me I would find it limiting. too much control and authority (if that word works). so zen meditation is my standby.
Religion is about finding truth in somebody else's belief (an impossible task, to say the least).
Spirituality is about finding truth in yourself.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 21:13:05 »

Religion is about finding truth in somebody else's belief (an impossible task, to say the least).
Spirituality is about finding truth in yourself.

I disagree. Religion and Spirituality are two different things but they are not mutually incompatible. In fact, it is very possible for them to compliment each other very nicely in a manner that produces a constantly growing and improving state of Consciousness.

As a teenager I left the religion that I was raised in and I took up an Eastern practice for several decades. Over time I began to notice something. Genuine spiritual growth was mostly unrelated to the set of beliefs associated with any given practice. I also had to admit that, rather unexpectedly, the most progress in general was to be found among those who diligently practiced the ancient Christian method as described in the medieval document, "The Cloud of Unknowing". In the modern Catholic church it is known as Centering Prayer.

Religion is the practice of worship in a community setting. Of course there is a mutually agreed upon set of beliefs... otherwise it would be ridiculous.
Spirituality is more akin to *how* a person practices.

To answer the original question of this thread; the answer is NO, religion does NOT stop the individual from growing Spiritually. On the contrary, as I observed earlier, some of the most astounding and accomplished mystics and saints throughout history were deeply religious. This fact is plainly obvious to the casual observer. If you ask me, people who say otherwise simply aren't paying attention.

Just for clarity I would like to add some dictionary  references;

Religion etymology; 1150-1200;  Middle English  religioun (< Old French  religion) < Latin  religiōn- (stem of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equivalent to relig (āre) to tie, fasten ( re-  re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament ) + -iōn-  -ion; cf. rely

Definitions for religion vary but here is an example;

noun 

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:

Dictionary.com lists no fewer than twelve ! (12) separate usages for "spiritual" but here are the two I think people here are using;

adjective 

1. of, relating to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.

2. of or relating to the spirit or soul, as distinguished from the physical nature:
a spiritual approach to life.
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Nameless
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2016, 02:35:53 »

I was just wondering because throughout history it's created so much unneeded war

Spiritual growth comes to anyone, anywhere, any time that person is ready. It transcends religion.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2016, 04:19:07 »

Spiritual growth comes to anyone, anywhere, any time that person is ready. It transcends religion.

I don't think I have ever seen Spiritual Growth *ever* just "come to anyone"... not once.... Can you give some examples to clarify this? The way you describe it almost sounds like the Bible Thumper's "saved by Grace" type thing.

I have only seen it as a result of tremendous amounts of Work on Self.
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Xanth
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2016, 04:36:45 »

I disagree.
Feel free to disagree with my "opinion" all you want.

It's clear that we're simply using different definitions.

You're a very... "by the book"... sort of person it would appear.
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Nameless
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2016, 06:02:33 »

I don't think I have ever seen Spiritual Growth *ever* just "come to anyone"... not once.... Can you give some examples to clarify this? The way you describe it almost sounds like the Bible Thumper's "saved by Grace" type thing.

I have only seen it as a result of tremendous amounts of Work on Self.

I said when that person is ready. Meaning they do the seeking. Nothing mystical about it.
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user001
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2016, 17:46:18 »

NO and Yes.....Depends on how deep you go/believe....even then that no matter, you can have an OBE, but it will probably be filtered by your mind to "accept" the religious answer to your question, specially if you raised certain religions.

You may see St. Peter, but only because what you need to see to keep you "sane", "things" have to fall in your subconscious beliefs, your sub. has to be able to make sense out of things or it will make you "crazy".

Know this, if there is intelligent design then "god" has direct access to you. You really think god needed a book to tell people his will? if that the case? When he made everyone, is not that a direct path to you, "god" could "talk" to anyone at anytime. Why would he only talk to humans from 2000 years so long ago and just decided to stop?

Anyways F-religions, but the one thing everyone, 99% of all religions say is the "golden rule"...treat people the way you want to be treated, live by that and hope it enough............

Food for thought..... Was Jesus real? People died, hurt, made war, killed many in the name of Jesus, and still to this day if you bad mouth Jesus in some place, expect to be killed. In other places his name will grant you all the giving's a believer could want, if you believe; Helping countless others in Jesus name.

Off subject some............
So weather JC was real or not in historic sense; means what? If you talk crap about him in this world and someone may kill you for that, or give you money and help you to have better life, if you have good words......How is Jesus not Real? Cause you can get killed dead via that belief? How fake is that? Real or fake? what the difference at this point?

Fools waiting for JC instead of using the abilities "god" gave them to use some GD common sense, and JC said The most important commandment: do upon your others as you would want them to do upon you, and that encompasses all 15, wait, 10 commandments.

If god made you then, then he put everything you needed to have in yourself for him to contact you, but guess most Christians believe he talks to random idiots, popes, deceivers(king James), and madmen to write books to tell the rest of the world his will.......please
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WhiteMonkey
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2016, 21:20:53 »

I wouldn't say religion stops you as your own fixed believe systems you wont let go even if you know they are wrong.

So basicaly you are blocking yourself.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 01:53:03 »

Food for thought..... Was Jesus real? People died, hurt, made war, killed many in the name of Jesus, and still to this day if you bad mouth Jesus in some place, expect to be killed. In other places his name will grant you all the giving's a believer could want, if you believe; Helping countless others in Jesus name.

Off subject some............
So weather JC was real or not in historic sense; means what? If you talk crap about him in this world and someone may kill you for that, or give you money and help you to have better life, if you have good words......How is Jesus not Real? Cause you can get killed dead via that belief? How fake is that? Real or fake? what the difference at this point?

Fools waiting for JC instead of using the abilities "god" gave them to use some GD common sense, and JC said The most important commandment: do upon your others as you would want them to do upon you, and that encompasses all 15, wait, 10 commandments.

If god made you then, then he put everything you needed to have in yourself for him to contact you, but guess most Christians believe he talks to random idiots, popes, deceivers(king James), and madmen to write books to tell the rest of the world his will.......please

As far as I know there are people talking crap about Jesus every day all over the world and I can't recall a single instance where they were killed for saying those things. Did the infamous South Park episode of Jesus and Santa get any of the writers killed? (Maybe you are confusing people talking trash about Jesus with Charlie Hebdo writers publishing a picture of somebody...?....)

Do you believe Socrates existed? There is more historical evidence for the reality of Jesus than there is for Socrates.

How do you know God put everything you need to make contact Him in you?

And just FYI... I am not aware of anyone killing in the name of Jesus. The Crusades were a looooong time ago and a plain and simple act of self defense as well. (Killing in war and bloody murder are two completely different things... that is why there is a word for killing and a different word for the different thing called murder).
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 18:55:36 »

WWII was a political war started by very non religious types.

This is actually somewhat of a complicated issue. But there is no doubt that Hitler had religious leanings.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 21:49:01 »

This is actually somewhat of a complicated issue. But there is no doubt that Hitler had religious leanings.

I am not aware of a single reason put forth by Hitler for invading surrounding countries that had ANYTHING to do with religion.
Economics, REVENGE (for WWI aftermath), National Ego, racial supremacy, etc... were up front and obvious... in other words, it was pure secular political business as usual.

As far as death of innocents goes, the political war known as WWII comes in a distant third place behind Atheist mass murderers, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

The claim that religion causes wars and death is just so patently false on the face of it, it really is scary how so many people swallow the Lying Atheist propaganda on the issue.

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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2016, 11:01:08 »

Is there any spiritual virtue in the hot trend of religion bashing?

If you can get something out of it there is. I've gotten a fair amount out of studying the Abrahamic faiths, Christianity in particular, though I wouldn't characterize it as "religion bashing," anymore than saying that if I acknowledge the fact that the US sponsored the deaths of thousands of Native Americans in the 1800's then I'm "America bashing."

Quote
Are religions not simply organized collective spiritual practice?

No, they're not. They're often also political tools and a host of other things besides. They are transmitters of culture and language and history. They're an excuse for exemptions from various laws in various countries, and yes, they are even still today often the cause of warfare. Some people have life-changing experiences and attribute them to their religion.

Quote
And doesn't this very website fit the definition of a religion, with the likes of you as priest?

It's all in how you want to interpret it, though I'm not sure why you'd want to interpret me as a priest. :p

In my 2-liner post above all I did was point out that a certain three Abrahamic religions have been the cause of endless conflict in the western hemisphere.

Quote
The "religion is bad because it has caused wars" rhetoric is parroted propaganda.

I actually never said that but now I'm beginning to understand why you got so riled up. My post was 2 lines man. You have written a book into it apparently, of things that I never said. I forgive you though and I think you might have a sore spot on that subject.
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« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 11:11:15 »

Actually, most of the religion based war was started by one religion. It started in the Arabian desert and spilled out in a sweeping, continuous LAND GRAB. Just because the first victims of the slaughter were Jews and Christians does not make it a Jewish or Christian War. The Crusades were a simple act of self defense in response to the invasion of Spain and France, Sicily and Italy, Greece and Macedonia, Eastern Europe ... etc. etc. etc.

Do you know how all of those countries got to be Christian in the first place? It was a wonderful bouquet of inquisitions, torture, genocides, a bunch of wars on the side. Did I mention multiple genocides? Somewhere between one third and one half of the entire population of southern France is estimated to have been killed during a single war, the Albiginsian Crusade. They were all killed because they believed in a different kind of Christianity where Jesus was just a teacher, eating meat was bad and reincarnation was real. That was just one war. The Saxons also had a genocide committed against them by Charlemagne, in the name of Christianity, acting as the Holy Roman Emperor. Then there were the Native Americans...

I'm just providing the other side of the coin here. Christianity has a lot of politics baked into its doctrines and historical roots in pagan sun-worship, but that's another subject we could talk about if you like.
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