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Author Topic: Is there racists in the astral?  (Read 2954 times)
EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2017, 04:14:31 »

A great tangent off Plasma's OP...

Ultimately, I think the answer is beyond the Physical Human perspective; the best we can do is arrive at a proximate answer.

I like and have considered all the perspectives offered and will add a couple more. I like Xanth's proposition from a theoretical perspective but LightBeam's view resonates better for me.

What I have learned over and over during my brief time on Earth is the wonderful and mystifyingly complex diversity of beings and perspectives available to us as Consciousness. So why shouldn't that diversity apply to our available options once we exit this PR frame of reference? I think that for some of us reincarnation is both an option and maybe a necessity. Maybe some of us are simple one-timers- we are here for this one life, then we are headed elsewhere; different lives as endlessly divergent conscious beings, both in Physical and Non-Physical environments. Some of us may return for a dip in the 'tub of Cosmic Awareness' then head out again; maybe some choose to return to the Source more permanently.

I think that it is all available to us. I think that the options available to us are much greater than we can conceive of while in our present incarnations. Apparently we did not all come from the same place and when we leave here, there are many destinations open to us.

LightBeam makes a great point about the necessity of some form of persistent personality that moves from experience to experience; otherwise what's the point of developing one in the first place? Xanth also refers to this and they both imply the essential question- how much of the 'personality' survives from life to life? And ultimately, for how long? Eternity? Half of Eternity? Or maybe a billion years from now, we do allow ourselves to blend back into that 'Sea of Consciousness'... 

It is my current thinking that much of our individual ego/personality actually does not survive...it degrades and erodes over time in the Afterlife. I think that an essential basic form of ego moves on, but honestly I'm unclear on just how much. The intrinsic 'fear' that I am left with, I think may be that part of my personal ego that 'knows' it will be lost...

This is a question that Taoism, Buddhism and other arts deal with, either directly or indirectly- the issue of arriving at a place where Ego is minimized or eliminated. The Buddhists work to create a 'body of Clear Light' that they will transfer into at death that leaves Ego and Karma behind. I don't think that means the entire destruction of the personality and its' memories, but at least a complete understanding and control of it; and therefore a huge minimization of it.

For those who have had a fair amount of Non-Physical experiences, I think that we have had a good glimpse of that state of mind. I have come to realize a very significant difference between my Physical personality and my NP personality. I'm still working on understanding the differences, but my NPR-based personality seems very much reduced in some ways compared to the Earthbound version.

As to the OP, I think racism is a natural reaction in a Physical-based world that is significantly predatory in nature. It is a survival instinct that pushes us to group together for defense with similar people, whatever that similarity may be. As a species, hopefully we learn to move beyond it. In the NP, it gradually becomes apparent that we no longer need to depend on this trait.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 04:41:41 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2017, 04:35:35 »

Very well said, EV Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2017, 04:35:35 »

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« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2017, 17:28:04 »

EV ...

Yes. There is diversity ... and probably much, much more diversity beyond this physical experience than is currently being imagined on this thread.

I had written out a similar response yesterday, but retracted it because it was so far beyond the initial question of racism. The reason that I personally resonated more with LightBeam's response is that I generally disagree with Xanth's 'metaphorical leap to oneness in a large pond' immediately upon our transition. There are many layers in our evolving as evidenced by the four TMI explorer tapes with Miranon.

If I were to use a guiding metaphor for our existence in the physical and non-physical, I would point to an example used by Frank DeMarco's friend Rita Warren in Rita's World I and II. It is the egg and the chicken. In her metaphor ... our physical existence is the egg, our transition to the non-physical is its hatching, and in the non-physical we become the chicken we were meant to grow into. We are essentially "becoming" as we incubate here in physical reality.

There are certainly many life times, but from my perspective, the human baggage associated with the term "reincarnation" blinds us from our real experience.

As held forth by Rita, we are essentially complex beings (not singular as perceived physically), and each physical life time is a new egg (and chicken). Therefore, our primary composition is that of a "community'. Our inner being is a community and this is part of our developing guidance system. We are a growing flock of chickens if Rita's metaphor is carried to its conclusion.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 17:38:12 by Subtle Traveler » Logged

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Xanth
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« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2017, 18:11:25 »

I'll address LightBeam's original post.

I'll preface by repeating I don't believe I'm *correct* in anything I say here... I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate for a bit and thinking out loud.   Smiley

If we experience only one personality ever, then what amount of knowledge will we gain. I am not talking reincarnation only in the physical, but in many other dimensions. Lets not separate what we call physical and all other levels of existence regardless of thought responsiveness. What knowledge will a baby who lives a few hours only will receive? Or the fruit fly, LOL. Think about it.
Individual spirits will always have personalities no matter where they are. It's a part of the multiversal existence. If you only decide to merge completely with the source and become one with everything, then you will lose your personality, but then there will be no more learning. The reason the source spread as endless personalities is to continue growing and expanding. Otherwise there will be just one static ball of energy Smiley
What my supposition above alludes to is that, in the end, the whole of consciousness is greater than the sum of its parts (us).
If I had to further reason this out, I'd say it's NOT the idea that there's one personality (for example: you or me) and that personality goes through many different physical incarnations having many different experiences.  It would kind of be like as you suggest above, your personality would disappear immediately upon ACTUAL death and transitions back to the whole of consciousness.  The important part of the "you" (the non-physical parts of you - personality being a PHYSICAL aspect of you and how you interact with the world around you) returns and either evolves or de-evolves consciousness.  In the end, you're still always connected to that whole though... it's like the ocean / wave analogy.  The wave is born out of the ocean, but is still always connected to the ocean.

I've always said that if there's no afterlife or no actual reason for being then there's really no reason to continue existing that it would be such a horrible waste... in the case above, you are helping the whole of consciousness to evolve towards a more organized state.  So that's your reason for being.

That each time a life is born, it's born with a newly grabbed bit of that consciousness... hence starting fresh and would be a good reason for why you have no memories of anything you've previously experienced... because you haven't. You'd be a new awareness unit.

Quote
I don't think we loose our personality immediately after death. If it was so, when we project there will be no interactions with different entities. They do have personalities, right? Many of us have done retrievals, and the spirits trapped still retained their personalities, fears, beliefs, that's why they were trapped. Also, we as the personalities we know currently exist simultaneously in many many levels.
There isn't a single person alive today who can say that they "died" (finality).  So, even while you're having a NDE... you're still part of this physical reality in some way.  This means that you're still experiencing the non-physical through those "human experience" filters I mentioned before.  So while we're experiencing what we consider a "retrieval", on the greater scheme of things... what is it we're actually experiencing?  Especially if reincarnation isn't what we think it is? 

As I said, I'm just kind of thinking outloud... and none of this requires any answers.  It's just been a very neat subject to discuss and I haven't had this much fun in a while.  Smiley
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2017, 21:07:28 »

So, even while you're having a NDE... you're still part of this physical reality in some way.  This means that you're still experiencing the non-physical through those "human experience" filters I mentioned before. 
I would say this is not true if we look at the case of people like Eben Alexander where his brain was in total shutdown there would be no connection to the body at all because he was in a coma. And yet he had a very rich experience far beyond anything that is physically possible.
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« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2017, 21:07:28 »



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Xanth
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« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2017, 21:46:31 »

I would say this is not true if we look at the case of people like Eben Alexander where his brain was in total shutdown there would be no connection to the body at all because he was in a coma. And yet he had a very rich experience far beyond anything that is physically possible.
If he was in a Coma, then he wasn't dead.  AND he's still alive now... so he was never FINALLY, IRREVERSIBLY dead.  Right?  Right.  Smiley

Science LITERALLY can not answer the question "when does final, irreversible death occur?".  We just simply do not know.
Do a bit of research on the subject and you'll quickly find that science doesn't know when the "FINAL" death actually happens.
It's exactly the same with "dreaming"... science can't answer the question of "what is dreaming?" or "what is it's function?".

So yes... there isn't a person alive today who has been *DEAD* with that complete, final disconnect from their physical body. 
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2017, 22:20:54 »

YUP!  That's another possibility.  Smiley

Good job thinking outside the box!
ONLY within the confines of the human experience filter.  Outside that filter, no, it doesn't exist.
smiley
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« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2017, 21:49:34 »

If he was in a Coma, then he wasn't dead.  AND he's still alive now... so he was never FINALLY, IRREVERSIBLY dead.  Right?  Right.  Smiley

Science LITERALLY can not answer the question "when does final, irreversible death occur?".  We just simply do not know.
Do a bit of research on the subject and you'll quickly find that science doesn't know when the "FINAL" death actually happens.
It's exactly the same with "dreaming"... science can't answer the question of "what is dreaming?" or "what is it's function?".

So yes... there isn't a person alive today who has been *DEAD* with that complete, final disconnect from their physical body. 

Reversible death or irreversible death is still death
But I don't like unanswerable hypothesises and I think we can't go beyond these, here
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2017, 21:52:36 »

If he was in a Coma, then he wasn't dead.  AND he's still alive now... so he was never FINALLY, IRREVERSIBLY dead.  Right?  Right.  Smiley

Science LITERALLY can not answer the question "when does final, irreversible death occur?".  We just simply do not know.
Do a bit of research on the subject and you'll quickly find that science doesn't know when the "FINAL" death actually happens.
It's exactly the same with "dreaming"... science can't answer the question of "what is dreaming?" or "what is it's function?".

So yes... there isn't a person alive today who has been *DEAD* with that complete, final disconnect from their physical body. 
I thought you didn't like debating. tongue wink rolleyes
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Xanth
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« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2017, 12:59:00 »

Reversible death or irreversible death is still death
If you can be brought BACK to life... then you weren't "dead".  Wink

Quote
But I don't like unanswerable hypothesises and I think we can't go beyond these, here
I'm not sure what you're doing on a forum for a subject which can't be proven then?  Smiley  Wink

I thought you didn't like debating. tongue wink rolleyes
I get bitten by the debate-bug once in a blue moon.  hehe

Anyway, I'm not debating right now so much as just thinking out loud.  Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2017, 16:12:43 »

I would think most dead humans would be meeting with loved ones they knew while alive , and they would want to get on with there after life .There would not much room for any racism .I guess there could be a few hard core Archie Bunker types out there .
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« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2017, 21:24:42 »

If you can be brought BACK to life... then you weren't "dead".  Wink
I'm not sure what you're doing on a forum for a subject which can't be proven then?  Smiley  Wink

From what I have read , many projectors did prove the realness of APs to themself
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« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2017, 00:17:55 »

On o.b.e. proof , Robert Monroe would visit people he knew while out of body . Then ask them later what they were doing .  There was a British M.P. ( late 1800 or early 1900s ) that was sick in bed but cast his vote in the house of commons while in his astral body .  If  one comes back from the dead with visions of the after life , or other astral realms , that is a n.d.e.  How one intereptes the event will be with in there belief system .  Two people can see some thing in the sky .  One person sees a u.f.o. the other sees Mary , mother of Jesus .  A third person might see some quite different . 
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Xanth
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« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2017, 01:54:41 »

I would think most dead humans would be meeting with loved ones they knew while alive , and they would want to get on with there after life .There would not much room for any racism .I guess there could be a few hard core Archie Bunker types out there .
Ooooooh... someone just dated themselves.  Wink

From what I have read , many projectors did prove the realness of APs to themself
That's the easy part.  Most of us here have proven the existence of this stuff to ourselves.  
The trick (and a useless one at that) is proving it to someone who hasn't already experienced it.

"Yup, you can leave your body and fly around the universe!  REALLY!!"  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 01:57:01 by Xanth » Logged

PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2017, 01:56:08 »

When I die I want to be greeted by aliens with Jesus on the side smoking something way better than marijuana out of a bong.  cheesy Then I want to trip balls with them and after the come down we'll be talking about when we're going to come back to earth to save humanity. cheesy

Oh i need a good laugh right now I've been dragging all day.  rolleyes
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« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2017, 01:57:48 »

When I die I want to be greeted by aliens with Jesus on the side smoking something way better than marijuana out of a bong.  cheesy Then I want to trip balls with them and after the come down we'll be talking about when we're going to come back to earth to save humanity. cheesy

Oh i need a good laugh right now I've been dragging all day.  rolleyes
What happens if you just cease to exist and just re-join the one?
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« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2017, 08:29:45 »

If we experience only one personality ever, then what amount of knowledge will we gain. I am not talking reincarnation only in the physical, but in many other dimensions. Lets not separate what we call physical and all other levels of existence regardless of thought responsiveness. What knowledge will a baby who lives a few hours only will receive? Or the fruit fly, LOL. Think about it.
Individual spirits will always have personalities no matter where they are. It's a part of the multiversal existence. If you only decide to merge completely with the source and become one with everything, then you will lose your personality, but then there will be no more learning. The reason the source spread as endless personalities is to continue growing and expanding. Otherwise there will be just one static ball of energy Smiley

I don't think we loose our personality immediately after death. If it was so, when we project there will be no interactions with different entities. They do have personalities, right? Many of us have done retrievals, and the spirits trapped still retained their personalities, fears, beliefs, that's why they were trapped. Also, we as the personalities we know currently exist simultaneously in many many levels.

Here is a perspective:

When people talk about biological evolution, they often speak as though animals that evolved later are more advanced, or better adapted. They speak as though biological evolution has a purpose, or a goal, and that by evolving, animals are getting closer to that goal. The scientific truth of it seems closer to being that animals are merely changing over time, and that evolution is driven by mutations making some individuals more likely to survive and pass on their genetics, because those mutations made those individuals more competent at working and surviving a certain niche. So in the case of evolution, the misconception is that there is a purpose, and the reality is that it is merely an emergent process happening in the physical system.

I'd say something similar may be happening with respect to a life a being experiences. Who is to say there ever was a purpose? And if there is, why does that purpose have to be cumulative? Maybe it is a one shot and you're done thing. Maybe the life the fruit fly lived isn't helping a "higher self" grow to the point where they can experience the duck life. Maybe the fruit fly life was its own goal.

Clearly, if the purpose was to gain human-type experiences which we judge to be of quality, this universe and planet are VERY poorly setup for that. If I was an alien being evaluating what divine purpose the earth might serve, I would reason it must be a place to experience insect and oceanic arthropod life. Compared to all of them, human life is a very small sideshow. There are probably tens of billions of insects and other arthropods for every single human life here. This is really their show. So I'd reason if a "Source being" was interested in anything here, they wanted to find out what it was like to be a krill shrimp a millimeter across, since that is overwhelmingly what is happening over here.
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« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2017, 15:11:41 »

W. Bulhman has a number of videos on you tube .  Many of them are interviews where he is talking about  people in there after life .  They will go to parts of the astral plane and join people of the same beliefs ..  I have this image of a group of Archie Bunkers ( yes I did watch the show as a kid )  aruging  with each other . 
One of many
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3AxkbjNwts
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« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2017, 14:54:00 »

This has been a great conversation. I know I haven't been here much, my apologies.

I really like what Stillwater had to say. Ive often asked myself what makes people think we are all that? It is highly possible and very likely we are just a minor part of all that. By evolutionary standards being racist is a stubborn emotional response that humans seem not to be able to dump. I think that would automatically make US the lesser evolved of all the species if we are the last hold out on a dying concept. But then again, I am just rambling here and offering my thoughts rather than any hard-core beliefs.

I really liked Xanth's post too demonstrating the tub of water. Each dip in the tub would clearly show that we CAN bring back many memories that truly were NOT part of our own experience but we may remember it well due to that one drop of someone else's experience. Multiple drops = multiple past life experiences. This subject confounds me as well as with all the combined exp I have had it seems I would be drawn to the idea of past lives but I'm not.

But I have tapped into past lives, I've just never been sure they were mine or just a part of my awareness. So, did I live them or didn't I, your guess is as good as mine.

Are there racist over there in the NP? Good question and the only answer I have for you is that that fully depends on how evolved (spiritually) those others you meet in the NP are themselves. Not every one you meet there is on a 'spiritual path', many have no clue they are even there and many more are only there temporarily (as in dreaming) so this particular question is the last thing on their minds. Many are not even lucid over there and those that are have bigger fish to fry.
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« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2017, 06:07:52 »

This is just my opinion but I don't believe in past lives since as I understand it there is no time beyond the physical, all lives are happening at once; having said that.  I often think about Monroe and one of his students, Bruce Moen that describe a higher self being in charge of multiple personalities; for example Monroe describes this guide from the future and in the end it's revealed that it's himself or you could say another personality but still part of a higher self, Bruce Moen describes a disk having multiple personalities living on earth.  So a higher self with multiple personalities living their lives across the universe, experiencing limitation which they can't in the non-physical. 

A rich person, a poor person, a disabled, an athlete, an abused person, and the list goes on and on just for the purpose of experiencing not learning anything but just experiencing, all these personalities being part of a higher self, so in reality all these personalities are actually one or the same, with individual experiences.

Nothing to learn here but just to experience

My two cents
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« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2017, 12:26:16 »

Nothing to learn here but just to experience
Are you saying we don't have any kind of free will?
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« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2017, 15:15:41 »

Time is real hear on the earth plane .  It is my understanding that it does not exzist or is different out side the earth plane .  
P.S. I mis read a post , I will think up a proper responce to free will , then post it . 
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2017, 21:26:13 »


Nothing to learn here but just to experience

My two cents

I have a 'nickel' that I can add to this ... I have also mentioned this before here ...

Yes, we are NOT here to learn ... or to redeem ... or to somehow deal with past karma (mistakes) ... we are here for the joy of the expansion of consciousness ... calling this 'experience' (as you have above) is a decent way of pointing to this. Generally ... each human on this planet is here to expand conscious experience. It is that simple.

There is no question of 'choice' in that. There is always choice. In fact, our choices of this human lifetime go back to the original choice we made come here for expansion.
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« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2017, 21:51:33 »

I have a 'nickel' that I can add to this ... I have also mentioned this before here ...

Yes, we are NOT here to learn ... or to redeem ... or to somehow deal with past karma (mistakes) ... we are here for the joy of the expansion of consciousness ... calling this 'experience' (as you have above) is a decent way of pointing to this. Generally ... each human on this planet is here to expand conscious experience. It is that simple.

There is no question of 'choice' in that. There is always choice. In fact, our choices of this human lifetime go back to the original choice we made come here for expansion.



Actually, through experience you ALWAYS learn something whether you realize it or not, whether you want to or don't. How does one's consciousness expand? I think through adding knowledge through experience. So to me the ultimate purpose of spirit individuality is learning through various experiences. I have gone through this many times. When I suddenly realize why something is happening to me over and over again, it stops, there is no need anymore, because I have learned a certain lesson. And this realization and the knowledge is what expands my spirit. So, the element of learning is attached so to speak to the experience.
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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2017, 01:24:53 »

Are you saying we don't have any kind of free will?

It's all about free will, in our experiences, the choices we make as individuals or mass consciousness.


Actually, through experience you ALWAYS learn something whether you realize it or not, whether you want to or don't. How does one's consciousness expand? I think through adding knowledge through experience. So to me the ultimate purpose of spirit individuality is learning through various experiences.

I like this quote from "Conversations with God"

“Life (as you call it) is an opportunity for you to know experientially what you already know conceptually. You need learn nothing to do this. You need merely remember what you already know, and act on it. ”   Conversations with God

I'm still kind of on the fence whether we learn anything or not but I would like to think we don't because if we do then we're in this constant struggle to find out what it is that we need to learn instead just enjoying the time here, but who knows.



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