Michael Jackson Fights Back

[Leyla]

"The reason I don't think he's a pedophile is because of he basically thinks he's still a kid himself. Like Adrian said, he claims to be Peterpan."

Okay, I realize now I am not dealing with people who have taken as many psychology classes and done the large amount of reading I have on the topic.

If pedophiles were not stunted emotionally and "frozen in time" so to speak they would not be pedophiles. Pedophilia is sexual immaturity.

Little boys "play doctor" with each other. It is harmless.
 *Pedophiles think they are still little boys playing doctor.*

They cannot understand they are doing harm. They're doing the exact same thing they did when they were six. The fact that they have aged, (physically at least) while their partners-of-choice haven't doesn't feel wrong to them in the slightest.

"Boy Lovers" are very often gentle and child like. The NAMBLA website even boasts of this fact. This is why they believe they are being unfairly bullied and picked on.
 
If Jackson does not fit the cookie-cutter profile of a pedophile, then there are no pedophiles.

Loving children is one thing, but a grown man obsessed with sleeping int he same bed with children who are not related to him- boys specifically- does this not come of as "Catholic Priest" to anyone?

[goingslow]

First of all to say all pedophiles feel as if they're kids and being a pedophile is because they are sexually immature.  Are you getting these stats off websites?  Thats a bunch of crap people are pedophiles for many reasons but to say its because they actually believe they are kids is a bunch of bull.  And yes i have read up on them

Im curious leyla have you ever thought a pedophile or a person accused of molesting kids wasn't guilty.  Its easy to say "yes" but i would bet money you've never questioned the validity of any accusation in this regard.  I find people who are so single minded they're willing to prosecute any person who is even accused very scary.  Im just glad you're not a judge.

[Leyla]

There have been several false cases I know of. Particulary when there are alligations of "satanic ritual abuse."

I'll have you know, I my donate money, and write encouraging letters to the "West Memphis Three" A group of teenaged boys -one of them on death row- accused of raping and killing three little boys. A backwards red-neck jury falsly convicted them because they wear black cloths and listen to metallica.

If you had read anything on pedphiles you wold know that yes, they are sexualy childlike. (rolls eyes) If you read the NAMBLA website they admit it themselves.

Do you forget that Michaels sister has come out to say that Joe Jackson sexually abused her? It does run in families you know. Most offenders were abused themselves. Or is that another one of my "mistaken facts?"

I have read Jacksons autobiography. Have you? Well let me tell you what he says about women. Female fans terrified him as a child. He was afraid of womens hands especially- hysterical screaming teenaged girls surrounding the car, beating on the windows, crazed female fans, their hands always reaching and grabbing and clutching...


In fact, he wrote the song "she touched me" about Diana Ross because he was moved when she reached across the tabel and gently touched his hand.  The experience of a female hand being tender and gentle was new to him.

That alone could have caused him to retreat sexually from women.

[Leyla]

goingslow - you're a big hypocrite.
Someone makes an accuzation about pet-co and you're ready to jump on the bandwagon and boycott them.

You don't even suggest that the person might have an ax to grind, or is just targeting petco because they're a big famous company, or that you need more proof than just a website.
Jackson was officially investigated and on his way to court until he paid the people off.
You obviously care more about protecting animals than kids.

Oh how you weep for the poor pets, but turn a cold shoulder to the possability of real human children being victimized.
When it comes to that- you put a mans 'reputation' first.

You're priorities are all backward. The safty of children should always come before reputation.  

You put the safty of pets before pet-co's good reputation- why not the same respect and concern for the children?

The problem with the world today is that too many people like you are living in it.

[goingslow]

quote:Originally posted by Leyla

goingslow - you're a big hypocrite.
Someone makes an accuzation about pet-co and you're ready to jump on the bandwagon and boycott them.

You don't even suggest that the person might have an ax to grind, or is just targeting petco because they're a big famous company, or that you need more proof than just a website.
Jackson was officially investigated and on his way to court until he paid the people off.
You obviously care more about protecting animals than kids.

Oh how you weep for the poor pets, but turn a cold shoulder to the possability of real human children being victimized.
When it comes to that- you put a mans 'reputation' first.

You're priorities are all backward. The safty of children should always come before reputation.  

You put the safty of pets before pet-co's good reputation- why not the same respect and concern for the children?

The problem with the world today is that too many people like you are living in it.

I dont jump on every bandwagon and I need to see evidence.  Employees have hard evidence that company is mistreating animals.  But even with hard evidence peoples feelings on animals often are "so what they're animals."  Thats what i dont agree with.  If there's evidence of abuse then it needs to be dealt with and i dont say "they're just animals" If you think you're being spiritually correct in doing that that's fine.

No one would say.. not anyone i know of and not me "if a kid is abused get over it" or the abuser shouldnt pay.  That's the difference.  But where is the evidence?  One family claimed he molested their kid...right before negotiating a price.  They walked away millionaires.. Looks like it wasn't that bad afterall.

Bottom line is he didnt rape that kid.. he didnt molest that child.. even the parents dropped the charges.  Do you care more about his kids than the parents? Im sure they're enjoying their new house and car MJ bought them.

Where are the alligations of people who are not millionaires?  They're not there.  why? the other parents have a conscience and dont want to hurt a man or their kids just to extort 25 million.

MJ didnt do it.. if he did i'd be for going at him.

However i dont see why because i think every accused person shouldnt be convicted that somehow means i shouldnt care when animals are abused.

If the proof is there I care.. but MJ didnt rape anyone..

Btw you said it runs in families.. and abused kids abuse.  hmm lets lock up all the kids who are abused now.. since according to you they're going to be abusers later.

Sorry just to prove im an activist im not going to jump on every cause to hurt anyone's reputation out of spite and bitterness.  But it seems to be working for you.

Have a good one []

[Leyla]

Nothing you have said makes any sense.

"Bottom line is he didnt rape that kid.. he didnt molest that child.."

How do you know? Were you there?

My point is- the charges shouldn't have been dropped- it sould have been investigated to the fullest extent of the law.
He should never have been allowed to buy his way out of it.

Please explaine to me the presence of F. Mark Shaffel in Jacksons inner circle.

Mr. Shaffel is a pornographer- specializing in "Barely Legal" gay porn. That's right. Porn depicting young teenaged boys having sex.

Jackson insists on keeping this pornographer as an intermediary in his last two projects, even though people refuse to deal with him.

The first project being an album for charity- several celebrities who were involved dropped out upon hearing Shaffel was going to direct.
 
Then when Jackson was taking bids on his "footage you never got to see" two networks to pulled out of the deal when they realized Shaffel was Jacksons mediator.

This *gay-teen-porn* director's very presence is costing Jackson money. Yet he keeps him around. Very odd.

[goingslow]

Again the parents dropped it.

hes not in jail.. he didnt do it... the charges are dropped.  The parents were successful extorting millions.. why are some of you still dwelling on it?

So so far because of the fact latoya said her dad molested her and because jackson associates with a person who makes porn hes a child molester.  Again im glad you're not a judge... i guess tito and jermaine should be locked up too since their dad was accused by sicko latoya of molesting her.  
[]

FAce it the parents dropped the charges they have 25 million and they got what they were after.  What part didnt make sense.. why I asked why the parents of all the other kids didnt come up with charges even though they could possibly get millions.  Maybe they didnt think its worth it to lie like the first parents did for money.

but they're rich and happy.. and he's still fighting accusations baSED on charges the parents themselves dropped.  funny isnt it? [][|)][]

Im not answering this thread anymore because you ignore any point and just stick to bringing up more people into it.  Instead of saying why the parents were so involved in negotiating a price to drop the charges.. (extortion) You're now bringing up a guy who does porn.  You said barely legal right?  so they're over 18?  and suddenly because he's associated with jackson its proof that he molested a kid who's parents have dropped it?  

Your bitterness is clouding your ability to use logic.  So no use responding anymore.  Just hope someone you care about is never accused of doing something they didnt.. then you might see where you're guilty by being accused alone in this case.  

[|)][]

[Leyla]

Well thank gods you've run out of things to say, your ideas were getting weirder and making less sense the more you talked.

Calling poor Latoya a "sicko" for being molested by her dad.
Then suggesting we lock up all incest victims.
You're obviously out of your mind.

[James S]

Mmmmm....heated discussions......

Goingslow,
I never read your topic about Petco, but I think I can get the jist of it. We have a similar chain of pet retail stores here with a sordid, but not widely known history of mistreatment & neglect of the animals caged up in the shops. Willful mistreatment of any living feeling thing is wrong and should not be ignored or tolerated.

The payoff recieved by the parents who accused Michael Jackson of child molesting, might have been a smoke screen. We don't know if there may have been any threats attached to this payoff. "Here's $25M take it and shut up....or else!" Too many times have we seen that the law goes to the highest bidder.

Leyla,
I take note of your posts. There is something of a personal element in this, yes?
I do agree that wherever the personal rights of another human is in question, money should not be the way around it. Cases of child molesting should always be properly and conclusively investigated, no matter who the suspect is or how much money they have. Pay-offs just pave the way for pedophiles to go on with their sick habits, with no justice for the victims and no treatment for the offenders.

I have spoken out on the subject that M.J. is probably just misunderstood, but the info you've shared about his life and his dealings with others is troubling. Wanting to live a "Peter Pan" lifestyle is no justification for abusing the rights of children, no matter what good intentions he may have. Also having business dealings with a "teen" porn director is way out of line. If M.J. is willing to be known as someone who wishes to deal with such a person, then I think his whole credibility as an "innocent" person has been shot to hell.

My stance on the teen porn director is not a fundamentalist one. Some years ago I got to know as friends two prostitutes, one of them transsexual. I found them to be average everyday people just doing a job like anyone else. Ok, their income is a little better than most, but so much of it gets spent on personal beauty and fitness programs. They knew the "teen" porn scene was rife with the abuse of underage minors, and detested it like any other caring adult would.

James.

[James S]

If MJ was involving himself business-wise, personal-wise, whatever, with someone involved with adult porn, well, so what! His call. The guy could be a really good director, just in a different market.

The fact that this director he is associating himself with is working in a "teen" porn role, makes it just a little too close to the mark for someone who has been investigated for child molesting.

Personal experiences can make people bitter or biased, but they can also make people more knowledgable and able to identify things that others without that experience can't.
 
Leyla's past posts do not indicate that she is a person that holds to bitterness about things. I would not wish to criticise the comments of someone who claims a good level of understanding on a subject. At worst, I might question their reasoning behind certain comments, otherwise I could find the intellectual rug pulled out from under me.

James.

[James S]

Silva,
Sorry if I might have sounded a little peeved in my last post. I don't really care about M.J. one way or another, but Leyla's info prompted me to look into this Mark Shaffel thing a bit, and as mentioned, I've spoken to people who are familiar with the workings of the porn industry, and it ain't pretty.

First of all, search under some of Mark Shaffel's aliases - such as Marc Fredrics, or Fred Schaffel. He's done the lot! Gay porn, straight, teen, you name it! Believe me, I'm not the kind that takes the view of "I read it on the internet so it must be true". I like to make up my own mind about things.

What I think about this matter, IMO, is that Michael Jackson, considering the investigation he has been under, and the bad publicity he has either recieved or generated, really can't afford to be seen as having an ongoing professional relationship with a director that can be linked, wether tentitavely or firmly, with any form of paedophillia, which, as mentioned before is a very unfortunate "behind the scenes" issue with teen porn.

That has to be about one of the longest sentences I've ever written!

I don't consider this issue to be one that should bring about any hostilities in forum members towards other forum members. Parmenion did ask for opinions. Leyla's opinions, from her perspective are just as valid as anyone elses. Yes there is some anger in her comments. This subject may be a bit more personal to her than to others. I don't judge her to be like this in general as I have read some very nice posts from her on other topics, but we all have our axes to grind from time to time.

Just trying to sit in the middle and dodge the bullets.
James.

[Leyla]

I am supportive of those falsly accused of child abuse, like the "West Memphis Three," accused of satanic child rape/murder, to whom I send letters and donate money.

I am also aware that in heated child-custody cases false charges crop up, and must be looked at with the raised eyebrow of suspicion. But outside of that, I think the word of children should be taken seriously.

The police interviews I saw from the cops who investigated the case seemed cut and dried to me. They clearly think he did it.

It all seemed to add up. His "peter pan"  persona, the fear of women in his auto-biography, the incest that runs in his family, the police testimony, his teen-porn associates.

It's not like I leapt blindly to this conclusion. It seems any reasonable person would be compelled by the evidence.  

[Parmenion]

During the 8 months that Mr Jackson was followed by a camera team he had his own camera team following Them. Monday night at 9:30pm on BBC (uk and ireland) he gives his own side of the story, including footage that was 'edited' by mr Bashir. I think everyone who was so quick to slate Jackson should take the time to listen to the OTHER side of the story.Then , by all means,  feel free to form ur own opinions.

Parmenion