Ok, so because I believe, I am crazy?

[beavis]

Telos I agree. For things where the solution isnt obvious, unlike if you have a heart attack you should go to a doctor, we are smarter than the specialists. We have general knowledge, and they want to do their specialty. We need to choose which specialist to go to.

[atalanta]

Hi,

I have had medication, cognitive behavioural therapy and psychoanalysis for the anxiety.  The medication was hopeless or horrible for me.  The cog behav I can separate into two because I have actually done a short term group program and I also saw a couple of psychiatrists years ago who called themselves cog behavs but were happy to see me once a week doing nothing more than having a chat.  Either way it was useless or I found it patronising because they weren't listening to me the person, I may as well have been one of their lab rats.  Psychoanalysis for me has been the most successful not only in terms of my anxiety levels but it has helped me in a sense to grow.  

There is often a misconception that all psychotherapists, including cog behavs who do 'talking therapies' are the same.  They aren't.  There are things which all my previous therapists missed which my psychoanalyst has not, questions I wish I had been asked which they never did, etc.  I believe that psychoanalysis and probably Jung's analytical psychology work best for me but they are not the same as cog behavs doing counselling.

Now I agree with you about the fact that all the various psycho-treatments/therapists/scientists are not working cohesively to offer the best treatments for people and because of that there are many who are falling through the cracks and becoming revolvind door patients.  I also have longed to see a central entry point for people who consider themselves to have a problem where they can come and their situation will be looked over by several professionals including naturapaths, dieticians, social workers, etc, so the person is treated as a whole and from every angle.  Not only this but that the agreed plan is seen through from start to finish without the threat of government slashing services or funding.  I mean, some people may turn up with a simple phobia which can be successfully treated with short term cog behav, others may need only to be monitored for medication levels and may need more living skills support, yet others may need long term, frequent, depth psych treatments.  One shouldn't be punished for needing more or less and each should have their needs met because only that way will they stop coming back into the system and wasting taxpayer's money.

I am not sure what you mean by some cases being left to neuroscience and not psychiatrists.  Neuroscience is a study on which psychiatrists depend.  I mean, its like saying that marriages should be celebrated by theologians rather than priests.  I studied basic neuroscience on my way to becoming a psychologist (I am not a psychologist, it was what I was planning).  Psychiatrists treat people because they are medical doctors who are able to advise on chemical treatments.  A neuroscientist is not a medical doctor so they couldn't recommend chemical intervention.  Perhaps I have misunderstood what you meant.

I am not supporting psychiatrists because I think that a lot of them stink as therapists and they treat their patients as money making machines.  For those who need long term treatment, finding a psychiatrist is next to impossible because why should they put up with a difficult long term case when they can see a schizophrenic or manic depressive whom they don't have to really deal with, they can just give them pills.  I am not saying that schizophrenics don't have their share of complications but patients who are anorexics or self mutilate or are borderlines, etc, need constant monitoring as they are constantly in one crisis or another.

I think the whole system stinks and needs to be overhauled.  The first thing that needs to happen is that the therapists and scientists need to stop using patients as pawns in their 'chicken and egg' arguments as to what comes first, the chemical imbalance, the childhood trauma, the maladaptive learned behaviour, etc.  They need to sit down and recognise that they are dealing with real people who need real help and that it may be help on several levels.  In that sense I think we are in total agreement.

I think we already have very good treatments but people are being denied them because of incompetence, lack of vision, ie, a cog behav won't send a patient to a psychoanalyst when they are unsuccessful, lack of funding, a corrupt system and a system where people just getting referred.

I guess when I was asking you what alternatives did you perceive, I meant do you have alternative treatments or ways of thinking of mental illnesses and disorders to the ones being recommended at this time.  The fact that the system sucks at the moment, well you would have to be blind not to see that.  I only read today that two community mental health services are about to shut in the Chatswood area in Sydney.

Okay, now I feel like I am hijacking the thread - can't half tell I have an interest in this!    

[Smilodon29A]

Telos I would like to answer your question about the mental health of people how say that they create reality.

First off let me tell you I integrate well into society , and I too take it for granted sometimes.

Ok now the "I create reality" does not literally
mean what it says. It does not mean that I create
rain or trees or what ever.

That simply means that I create MY reality.
I choose the way I think about anything, and
"as you think, so shall you become".

That last quote is very true also but not if you take it out of proportion.
If my dream is to be the best football player of the world, and all I do all day is eat and sleep, that obviously will not happen.
But if I train everyday, no matter the weather, my mood in that specific time, or anything else you CAN after a long time just achieve that goal.

The key is to be positive about that goal, not to loose faith in oneself and WORK HARD for it.

Well that is at least the way that I see the phrase "I create reality"... but I also always add "my reality".

Hope this will help you understand that mindset a little better.

[Smilodon29A]

Heter I agree with people that you don't have a disease if you function as a normal individual.

About integrating with society, IT CAN BE LEARNED. I have myself as an example:)
What is your problem with people ?

Is it fear to talk to them, do you dislike most people or what ?

[heter]

Heter I agree with people that you don't have a disease if you function as a normal individual.

About integrating with society, IT CAN BE LEARNED. I have myself as an example:)
What is your problem with people ?

Is it fear to talk to them, do you dislike most people or what ?

I sort of fear people. I fear being seen by a stranger because of what they might think of me. I also don't like the way most people act and think. I used to go out and have friends, but It just didn't feel right. I am now out of school and spend my days in my room alone. Not doing anything to productive and afraid to go outside in fear of what people might think of me. I am also ashamed in my appearance. I beleive this contributes to my fear of people. I feel like an outcast or a freak for the way I am in every aspect. Especially the way I look. I look at spirituality as an escape in a way, and I also look at it as being very important and that I can learn from it and better myself. I don't spend much time on energy work or obe anymore though. I stopped because I wasn't seeing amazing results. It's the way I am to stop and never finish what I begin. There hasn't been one thing I have ever managed to complete.

[beavis]

heter, if you dont talk to those people, why does it matter what they think? Do you care what some random person 100 miles from you thinks about you? If not, then why care what the local people you avoid think? If you do, then I'll have to tell you what I think about you....  

I care what people think about me only as much as its useful to me for them to think certain things. I want potential employers to think I act professionally. (theoreticly) I would want drug dealers to think I wouldnt touch a suit. If I dont expect to ever want anything from a certain person or people they talk to, it doesnt bother me if they think I'm a waste of skin (unless they get in my face about it).

There hasn't been one thing I have ever managed to complete.

Thats scary. I finish pooping with toilet paper. I guess you dont even buy it.

[Smilodon29A]

Well the answer is simple: work on your physical appearance, go out more.

Just work in baby steps... do a thing that feels a little scary until it no longer does, and then move on.
Just like learning to AP

And about finishing things, it is just a question of motivation.

[CaCoDeMoN]

I sort of fear people. I fear being seen by a stranger because of what they might think of me. I also don't like the way most people act and think. I used to go out and have friends, but It just didn't feel right. I am now out of school and spend my days in my room alone. Not doing anything to productive and afraid to go outside in fear of what people might think of me. I am also ashamed in my appearance. I beleive this contributes to my fear of people. I feel like an outcast or a freak for the way I am in every aspect. Especially the way I look. I look at spirituality as an escape in a way, and I also look at it as being very important and that I can learn from it and better myself. I don't spend much time on energy work or obe anymore though. I stopped because I wasn't seeing amazing results. It's the way I am to stop and never finish what I begin. There hasn't been one thing I have ever managed to complete.

I think that your problem is using spirituality as an escape from life. With spirituality is seems that life has some sort of "deeper sense", but what if it hasn't? (nearly)All the suffering would be meaningless then, and there would be no reason to escape from life...
I use spirituality and occultism as a tool to make my life more enjoyable, and this caused total change in myself in less than one year . I stopped being afraid of people, I have many friends, so I can get help when I have problems, and I love to help people, but not because of Karma(I don't believe in it) - just for fun.
I think that the problem of suffering is rooted much deeper in the mind than people think. Somewhere in the subconsciousness people might actually ENJOY problems and suffering, and love to complain about it. I think that when subconsciousness will be reprogrammed, the desire of success will be so strong that you cannot fail.

[clandestino]

Heter I agree with people that you don't have a disease if you function as a normal individual.

About integrating with society, IT CAN BE LEARNED. I have myself as an example:)
What is your problem with people ?

Is it fear to talk to them, do you dislike most people or what ?

I sort of fear people. I fear being seen by a stranger because of what they might think of me. I also don't like the way most people act and think. I used to go out and have friends, but It just didn't feel right. I am now out of school and spend my days in my room alone. Not doing anything to productive and afraid to go outside in fear of what people might think of me. I am also ashamed in my appearance. I beleive this contributes to my fear of people. I feel like an outcast or a freak for the way I am in every aspect. Especially the way I look. I look at spirituality as an escape in a way, and I also look at it as being very important and that I can learn from it and better myself. I don't spend much time on energy work or obe anymore though. I stopped because I wasn't seeing amazing results. It's the way I am to stop and never finish what I begin. There hasn't been one thing I have ever managed to complete.

Hi there Heter, it sounds like you're going through a real low at the moment.

In order to get out of it, one of the first things you need to do is accept the way you look. In fact, you have to genuinely like the way you look. I don't mean this in a conceited way; I'm just saying that one can find beauty in anything, but it is often hard to see at first.

Not only do you need to accept yourself physically, but you also must accept the person that you are, mentally. Perhaps you might find Franz Bardon's exercise on Soul mirrors useful here... Its in his book, Initiation into Hermetics. This exercise forces you to confront every aspect of your personality, positive & negative. Then it allows you to change the parts you do not like.

People often say "a leopard can't change his spots", but this just isn't true. Happy people do fall into depressive states, or fall upon hard times. Unhappy people often change their outlooks on lives as they grow older, & become very positive people, unrecognisable from when you knew them e.g. 10years previously.

Ok, I'm probably going to start sounding like some kind of crappy life-coach type person, but who cares...
1) get outside. Walk with your head held high, looking at the horizon. Take a stroll through a park, and enjoy it !
2) if you have family, spend a bit of time with them, even if its only going to the shops or just watching tv with them.
3) try and do a good deed for someone each day.

This advice might seem like rubbish, but give it a go. Maybe it'll help you feel a bit happier about yourself, I hope it does !!

Mark

[Smilodon29A]

Mark that kind of advice is not rubbish, I have myself as an example.

Heather do what he says, but about the way you look, I would rather suggest you do some workout as that alone adds a lot to your confidence, not to mention you feel good after it.

[beavis]

you also must accept the person that you are, mentally

or change yourself to what you want to be

[Leannain]

it's impossible for a person to change what it is.
you're bound to be what you are due to your genetic code.it's not possible to change the genetic code after the person  is born.

[beavis]

I was built by genetics, and genetics gradually heal injuries, but a brain can diverge far from where it started. You can find examples in insane asylums. Some of them, I've heard, are insane in some areas and geniuses in others. But a person doesnt have to start insane to become insane. I've heard anti-psychotic pills can make people insane.

[Leannain]

normal persons can't become what  Einstein,newton,Alexander the great were by their own will power.these giants  were born to be genius.

so become what you want to be,it's  impossible and those cases of  people becoming genius in some areas must have something to do with  mutations within the genetic code

[Telos]

4) Enjoy exercising.

5) Exercise enjoyment.