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Author Topic: The False-gods of astral pulse  (Read 21979 times)
Draege
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2005, 04:40:38 »

Why.
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Abraham
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2005, 06:32:12 »

Quote
I'm not christian but i know that according to the bible god didn't die on the cross, jesus did.


According to Christianity, Jesus is God, therefore "God died on the cross".
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"Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful" [Quran 27:64]
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2005, 06:32:12 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Abraham
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2005, 06:36:03 »

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You say that the possibility of one creating himself or "being created from nothingness" is irrational and then you say that the possibility of a "creator" creating us is rational.
And how was that "creator" created? He either appeared out of nowhere or created himself... wait a second.. that's irrational!


Actually asking the question how the "Creator" was created is irrational. ASking this question comes with the assumption that the Creator is somehow comparable to His creation (in that He has the need to be created). His essence is unique and unlike His creation.
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Abraham
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2005, 06:45:31 »

Quote from: thesickmoon
Abe:

Your god sounds mightily generous with his granting access to Heaven and all that jazz. But how do you know your god isn’t an Astral Projector out to toy with you? Think about it: What if one of the Astral Pulse forum members, while doing a bit of AP, saw that some time in the future you’d post this very message to this very forum. Knowing this, our Loki wannabe went back in time and created the Hatin’ God you worship, and even went so far as to compose the texts you consider sacred, hiding them in places he knew archaeologists would look. Hell, for all I know, he could actually BE Loki in his spare time.

As far as your god’s Heaven and Hell, well… Heaven and Hell could have been created by him / her as part of the prank, since the Astral seems to be influenced by one’s own thoughts. I’ve got no proof of this, just as you don’t have any proof of the existence of your god, but I’m willing to go to great lengths to bring proof of God or any other non - ordinary being to humanity. Great lengths indeed. Absurd lengths. Lengths so absurd you’d think an existential twenty something angsty college kid came up with them. I have no idea what I’m on about, but I’m sure I’ll think of something in a moment.

Ah, yes. I’ve thought of it.

I challenge your God to a Mexican Chicken Cock Rooster Fight. Here’s how it works: Your god possesses the body of an adult rooster. See? And then I get to choose any god I want to possess the body of another adult rooster. It would be preferable if the two opposing roosters had a long standing record of hatred toward each other. Not that it would matter to the chosen gods, but it adds drama to the - WAIT. No. The roosters must be homosexual roosters, and they must be in love with each another. Yes. They’ve known each other for years, and they swore that if it ever came down to it, they’d never fight each other in an official match. The other roosters even allowed them to get married since they aren’t bound by silly, outdated human morals. Now, THAT’S drama.

Once the gods have settled into their respective roosters, we let them fight. Now, I know what you’re thinking.
“Bu- bu- but Dave! Wouldn’t the possession of the roosters be enough to prove the existence of otherworldly, non - ordinary beings?”
Well, yeah it would. You got me there. But I’m also going for style points, so therefore mere proof isn't enough.

Since the gods are probably able to keep the roosters alive for eternity, we’ll allow them to fight for only fifteen minutes, and then break them up - if they let us. Should they feel the need to continue fighting, there’d be nothing we could do to stop them. Hell, this scenario may event go on forever if it gains enough favor among the gods.

This could be the new trend of the gods, and they’ll wonder why they hadn’t ever thought of it before. If it happens to go that far, we could get all the gods - at least the overbearing, tyrannical ones – to inhabit the bodies of homosexual fightin' roosters and let THEM fight each other for a change instead of watching us fight each other all the damned time. Then we could be free from their ominous tyranny. Until they stop fighting each other, if ever. But you know how a day with the Lord can be…


Main Entry: crack
Pronunciation: 'krak
Function: noun
often attributive : a potent form of cocaine that is obtained by treating the hydrochloride of cocaine with sodium bicarbonate to create small chips used illicitly usually for smoking

Its not good for you, Dont smoke it.
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"Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful" [Quran 27:64]
Abraham
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2005, 06:49:23 »

Quote from: Ben K
You, Abraham, are a jumbled of piece of belief-trash.


You, Ben, are jumbled in experience worship and self-deception. Worshipping the Lord of all that exists and submitting to Him is  the most unjumbled, single-minded, rational action that you can do.
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"Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful" [Quran 27:64]
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2005, 06:49:23 »



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thesickmoon
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2005, 06:56:37 »

Quote from: Abraham


Main Entry: crack
Pronunciation: 'krak
Function: noun
often attributive : a potent form of cocaine that is obtained by treating the hydrochloride of cocaine with sodium bicarbonate to create small chips used illicitly usually for smoking

Its not good for you, Dont smoke it.


I don't smoke anything. I'm drug free. Alcohol free, too. It's just that sometimes my imagination gets the best of me, and the result is stupid replies to posts on forums.

And for frak's sake, stop living in the 1990s.
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--Ronald D. Moore, March 12, 2005
Rowan
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2005, 08:14:07 »

Abraham,

Your posts have been interesting and confounding. I have several questions and some commentary regarding them.

How long have you been a Muslim? What sect do you belong to?

I ask this because you aren't very much like the other Muslims I've encountered online. Most of them have been respectful even when debating with others. They also had a tendency towards being well-spoken not telling those they disagreed with they were on crack.

How do these people's personal beliefs and practices impact you personally, and why this forum in particular?

As a Muslim who's apparently not a big fan of mystics, shouldn't you be off somewhere harassing Sufis?

It seems like you're posting to pick a fight. Why else would you demand people give you proof of their spiritual experiences? Honestly, your posts have been confusing. They read like you're an atheist demanding people concretely prove the numinous. As a religious person, you should know better. Can you prove your religion is completely true? Can you prove any spiritual experience you may have had is true? I sincerely doubt it. I also doubt you would believe proof anyone else gave you of their experiences, no matter how strong it was.

I could be wrong about you and hope I am. I find such close-mindedness sad.

I leave you with these words from the Havamal, that I hope you'll gain something from them.

Of his knowledge a man should never boast,
Rather be sparing of speech
When to his house a wiser comes:
Seldom do those who are silent Make mistakes;
mother wit Is ever a faithful friend
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That is the road to Heaven, my love,
and that is the road to Hell,
And that is the road to Faery,
where you and I must dwell.



Thomas the Rhymer
James S
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2005, 08:27:30 »

Quote from: Abraham
... Worshipping the Lord of all that exists and submitting to Him is  the most unjumbled, single-minded, rational action that you can do.

Single minded. Yup! that's it alright. Rational?? Hmmm....

Accusing others of being on crack isn't exactly rational is it?
That's kinda defamatory. Read the Acceptable Use Policy bud!

Quote
theres only a few possibilites. Were you created from nothing? Did you create yourself? Did you create the universe? None of these are rational possibilites, so it is only rational that there is One Creator beyond all of creation.

Thats proof :its up to you to accept it, or whether you want to be arrogant of the reality.

That's proof??
No, that's conjecture. Get a dictionary. I think you're a little confused as the the meanings of the words.

Quote
Do you want the truth or just some sort of 'experience'?

Experience is truth for the individual. It is through our experiences that we define who we are.
You can't get that out of books. That's someone else's truth, someone else's experience. Not yours.

Is there only black and white? Anything lighter than dark is light, anything darker than light is dark. It all depends on you're point of view.
That is the truth!

James.
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Abraham
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2005, 08:36:05 »

Quote
Abraham,

Your posts have been interesting and confounding. I have several questions and some commentary regarding them.

How long have you been a Muslim? What sect do you belong to?


Ive been Muslim for 3 or 4 years alhumdulillah(praise be to Allah). I am a sunni .

Quote
I ask this because you aren't very much like the other Muslims I've encountered online. Most of them have been respectful even when debating with others. They also had a tendency towards being well-spoken not telling those they disagreed with they were on crack.

How do these people's personal beliefs and practices impact you personally, and why this forum in particular?


Kufr(disbelief) and shirk(paganism) is the same everywhere. Its my duty to Allah to call people to Him.


Quote
As a Muslim who's apparently not a big fan of mystics, shouldn't you be off somewhere harassing Sufis?

It seems like you're posting to pick a fight. Why else would you demand people give you proof of their spiritual experiences? Honestly, your posts have been confusing. They read like you're an atheist demanding people concretely prove the numinous. As a religious person, you should know better. Can you prove your religion is completely true? Can you prove any spiritual experience you may have had is true? I sincerely doubt it. I also doubt you would believe proof anyone else gave you of their experiences, no matter how strong it was.


Actually yes Islam has numerous proofs whether people like it or not. Such as the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)) being an illiterate man who produced a book which is unique, without contradiction, and carrying many scientific facts that were unknown at his time(the Qur'an). There are numerous proofs and miracles witnessed by many at  his time which were recorded in clear documented history(he was the most well-documented prophet.) If you would like me to produce the proofs I will inshaa'Allah(If Allah wills)

Im demanding people proof because Allah subhanahu wata'ala(glorified and exalted be He) has commanded me in the Qur'an to tell this to those who follow religions of falsehood and misguidance:

"Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful." [Surah Naml verse 64]

It is only rational that if we want to know the truth that we should have proof for it.
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OATH_
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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2005, 09:46:58 »

Abraham,

 sad

Understand that the reason for our explorations is to find the truth, we seek it, good or bad, we seek it and we accept. You are one man speaking to thousands on this forum that what each of us has found is a lie.

 Does anyone know if there is religion in heaven?


I guess I could be wrong about it though, just like everyone on these forums and all of the christians are wrong and the atheist and the buddhist and confuscists and anyone else you could think of....Oh, except the sunni muslims~!
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At the centre was the holy Sephira of Tiphareth, the point of perfect balance, harmony and beauty; the mystic rose that held within its seed-pod generations of future blossoms.
dimentox
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2005, 09:50:26 »

EDIT not gonna be mean as much as i want to.
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2005, 09:50:38 »

Abraham,

Thank you for your polite response. There's no need of proofs, as I believe you are right to an extent. Although as a polytheist, I believe the truth can be found in many sources. I wasn't really talking about historical or scientific proofs found in Holy books or historical documents. What I meant was spiritual truth and proofs aren't easily explained concrete things. Heck, I very rarely talk about my own experiences, I feel I don't have the right words to explain them. Maybe if I were Keats instead of the worst poet in the world.

For example, I could tell you about a healing journey I've done on my behalf or someone else's behalf. I could tell you that I or the other person then got well, but you could easily explain that away as coincidence or a placebo effect. I could tell you that I've found strangers who I've had no previous contact with that have had the same experiences when journeying that I've had. You could explain that away as well by thinking all of us were imagining our experiences after reading the same source material. If I told you that there was no source material or that it was so obscure I didn't come across it until afterwards, you could think I was lying or had simply forgotten that I had come across it before.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that spiritual experience, whether astral projection, ecstatic prayer, or anything else in the realm of mysticism, isn't easily proven unless you are experiencing it yourself, and then it's still sometimes difficult to comprehend. It's more akin to poetry, art, and intuition than to science and rationality, although both have a place in religion.
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That is the road to Heaven, my love,
and that is the road to Hell,
And that is the road to Faery,
where you and I must dwell.



Thomas the Rhymer
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2005, 11:43:57 »

Edit: I decided to remove this post.
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Adun
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2005, 12:58:35 »

Quote from: Abraham
Quote
I'm not christian but i know that according to the bible god didn't die on the cross, jesus did.


According to Christianity, Jesus is God, therefore "God died on the cross".


That's incorrect.
I was raised christian for about 13 years and i know for sure that jesus is not god. According to the bible jesus is the son of god.
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kailaurius
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2005, 14:40:40 »

Quote from: Abraham
Quote from: kailaurius
Hello Abraham,

Most people here including myself don't come here to be convinced of anything, so don't take this the wrong way, but it's kind of amusing when someone tries to convice other people what is right or wrong, real or not real, or asking for proof about what is real that I've noticed in another thread.

Anyway, we are here to share our experiences and help those who want to experience the same thing, whatever that may be.


Lol. Thats whats ridiculous. Do  you want the truth or just some sort of 'experience'? Do you want to know our purpose or just some sort of fake purpose derived from your own emotions and feelings? Do you want to follow proofs or emotions?

It seems the majority of people on this forum dont really care about the truth, but rather just want to deceive themselves.

Theres truth and theres falsehood, theres no middle ground.


Hehe   smiley

Well actually for myself there is no truth or falsehood.  I personally feel that deception preys on those who seek in a truth and clings to those who are closed minded, and if you become deceived it was by choice anyway for whatever purpose.  But there is nothing wrong with that either.  I feel that those who are open minded and free cannot be deceived, and by fee I mean free from everthing.  Free from religios beliefs, free from morals, free from what the majority of society perceives as truth, etc.  Deception cannot exist.  There's nothing for it to cling to.  Anyway, this is just how I feel for myself.

I'd like to write some more, but it's getting busy over here atm.  I'll check back later.  wink
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MindFreak
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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2005, 18:41:26 »

This Allah seems like an imaginary friend. Dont worry bud we all grow out of that stage.
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2005, 19:13:23 »

i share a similar view point of view on the creator/creation thing (with all the non-sense & arrogance aside)(i suppose it's attractive to me as an artist). i'm currently more into the observer & the observed, but same difference.

funny thing is when creation attempts to sum up itself, state its purpose, name its price, etc. and it's the anger actually that i find unpleasant in your posts. such animosity towards your fellow brothers & sisters, but no sense pointing the finger...it seems to be a pandemic of late. i feel the point is missed again with the act of being 'present'. that space before thought when you are truly one with the creator. you are working just as much within the past, and projecting assumptions just as much into the future, as anyone else is. if you truly occupied that space that you speak so highly of...you wouldn't have a need to justify, criticize, or explain.

with all i am capable of understanding...you are just another child-like creation lost in a sea of male-based rule, seeking sense and familiarity with it all. with all that everyone knows combined...i think we will all be very surprised in the end.

...and the creator & the creation are 'absolutely' one in the same, completely indivisible...always!

just in case anyone was wondering?!? wink
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James S
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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2005, 22:37:01 »

Rowan,
Welcome to the forums by the way.  smiley

I agree very much with the idea of proof being in the common experiences of complete strangers.
I've had this happen myself on a number of occasions where I compare notes with someone I've never met before, to find we've (spiritually) experienced the same thing in the same way. Then when a number of other people chime in and say "yeah, me too," you really know your not just making things up.

 smiley
James.
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IequalMC2
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« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2005, 23:35:40 »

I Hear, And if Allah wills

Abraham, forgive me this is not a test. How do you pray?
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Makaveli
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« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2005, 04:11:55 »

Are you suggesting that my astral goat named Herbie isnít real?  I heard that one in GTASAÖ  

Anyways none of as actually travel to this magical astral world.  We are either crazy since we are unable to lay off the astral crack pipe as you say or there are those of us that just like to make things up because we crave attention and have nothing better to do.



Please understand that you are wasting your time here.  We are all too simple-minded to appreciate these amazing proofs that you speak of, which Iím sure prove your superior religious beliefs as an undeniable scientific fact.    

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Guhan
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« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2005, 10:18:30 »

Hi All (after a looooong time),

I thought to reply to this after reading Abraham's posts...

Well, Abraham, as others have asked u, how r u going to prove that YOU are right!? I am a Hindu but also believe in the path of Lord Buddha strongly as well.

Don't stick to something like you are blind, study your religion well, compare with the others (with a neutral point of view).

Know what other people & religions are going behind & why... There's something Lord Buddha & some other Hindu yogis have said:

"Don't believe us blindly... search the truth for yourself"

They did it with meditation... and people in this forum our trying the varieties of meditation. If they are wrong in some way, they will know it when they get to the next level... because spiritual work can only improve your consciousness...

So have an open mind & search the truth for yourself...

- Guhan
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Blackstream
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« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2005, 11:54:59 »

First off, on the subject of Jesus being God or the Son of God, you have to realize that a fundamental part of the Christian doctrine is the concept of the trinity.  That is, that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all separate entities, and yet are the same being all at once.  So Jesus can be the son of God, and God at the same time.

And for anyone who thinks that's ridiculous, I just have to say this, "Higher selves."  Same concept, different application.

Anyways, onto this guy's tirade.  You do realize that the bible supposedly has all the exact same proofs behind it too, right?  Solid block of logic, no contradictions (I've researched a lot of the supposed ones, still have yet to find one), miracles were performed and witnessed by many a audience, blah blah.

I'm sure other religions have the same kinda backing, although I'm sure other ones also have contradictions, but that's not the point.

The point is, how do you know your God is the right God and not someone elses?  You are basing your entire beliefs off of some dude who pulled a book out of his butt and some supposed miracles that you never saw for yourself?  What proof has this God given to you in your life that he exists, and how do you know that they are in fact from your God and not due to another being or coincidence?





Faith.  That's what it is.  You have taken your religion's supposed facts on faith, your God's existence on faith.  Christians have taken their God's existance on faith.

Astral projectors take their realms existance on faith too, that it's not a lucid dream.

Why is your faith better than anyone elses?  You won't know whose right until you die.
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« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2005, 12:45:12 »

Quote from: Abraham

But then we have people on this board making crazy conclusions based upon their experiences. To tell you the truth, I have had some amazing "lucid dreams". None of your out of body experiences which u think are proven to you can be proven to be true, in the obvious reality that they could just be dreams. I even read some members saying exaclty this.....

....May God guide us all and save us from the filth of paganism, spiritual crack, and mental retardation.

-Abraham


Yet, the Koran says :
"Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another"

I'm not too fond of religious arguments & quotes; they just go around in circles. I think we can all agree though, whether its astral projection, christianity or islam - none stands up to scientific scrutiny. Arguing otherwise is pointless !

Mark
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redDEVIL
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« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2005, 19:01:19 »

....May God guide us all and save us from the filth of paganism, spiritual crack, and mental retardation.


Why should a belief in obe/lucid dream make someone a pagan?

I believe in God, Jesus, the messengers, Heaven and Hell. As do most religions. Why fight over the definitions of each word. I'm a Christian but I also read about other religions and don't feel threatened by them. Neither do i feel threatened by "astral experiences". Its interesting that in the bible there are many references to obe and trance states as there are in other religions. Lets accept the fact that somehow everything is all connected.

After spending 45 Min's reading the QUR'AN for the first time I've already found a reference that is up for debate and interpretation.

013.015
YUSUFALI: Whatever beings there are in the heavens and the earth do prostrate themselves to Allah (Acknowledging subjection),- with good-will or in spite of themselves: so do their [shadows] in the morning and evenings.

Could these SHADOWS be a ref to the astral body/spirit?
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« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2005, 19:02:30 »

hmmm i think abraham might just be some random guy whos against muslims,  so hes come on here and played the part of a crazy zealot, all in the hope of turning people against muslims..

i think the guy behind abraham is pretending to be exactly what he hates most, so others will too and join his crusade against islam.

he just seems a bit to cliche-fanatic, like he's actually funny because he's so foolish LOL LOL !!! !111!! shift+1!! /jf*^"

if he's for real then he's a LONG way from home.

THE MORE RELIGIOUS WE ARE, THE LESS WE KNOW ABOUT GOD.
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