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Author Topic: The False-gods of astral pulse  (Read 22036 times)
Souljah333
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« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2005, 20:11:29 »

AMEN :popcorn2:
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« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2005, 22:53:46 »

Quote from: Blackstream
First off, on the subject of Jesus being God or the Son of God, you have to realize that a fundamental part of the Christian doctrine is the concept of the trinity.  That is, that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all separate entities, and yet are the same being all at once.  So Jesus can be the son of God, and God at the same time.

And for anyone who thinks that's ridiculous, I just have to say this, "Higher selves."  Same concept, different application.

Anyways, onto this guy's tirade.  You do realize that the bible supposedly has all the exact same proofs behind it too, right?  Solid block of logic, no contradictions (I've researched a lot of the supposed ones, still have yet to find one), miracles were performed and witnessed by many a audience, blah blah.

I'm sure other religions have the same kinda backing, although I'm sure other ones also have contradictions, but that's not the point.

The point is, how do you know your God is the right God and not someone elses?  You are basing your entire beliefs off of some dude who pulled a book out of his butt and some supposed miracles that you never saw for yourself?  What proof has this God given to you in your life that he exists, and how do you know that they are in fact from your God and not due to another being or coincidence?





Faith.  That's what it is.  You have taken your religion's supposed facts on faith, your God's existence on faith.  Christians have taken their God's existance on faith.

Astral projectors take their realms existance on faith too, that it's not a lucid dream.

Why is your faith better than anyone elses?  You won't know whose right until you die.


Great post Blackstream wink

Yes, I think the world would be much better off if everyone stayed away from the labels and descriptions of others. Fact is a good majority of all people on this planet believe in some sort of god like higher power one way or another, which I think deserves to be looked upon INDIVIDUALLY. Then when and if you do find this higher power through some sort of mystical experience and you feel it is real to you you should not say well this is the ABC god since i have been going to the ABC church all of my life. You should find out for yourself WHAT EXACTLY IS GOD, and if you find that one out never never never go off and tell other people how you saw god and what he is etc.. If someone asks thats cool, tell them because they could be searching just like you were but If not dont go around trying to force people to do things. Force doesnt work to well, im surprised that isnt something learned from the koran (abraham) seems more like its you the one who are scared and searching though... idk though, im not sigmund frued....
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« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2005, 22:53:46 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2005, 03:52:28 »

Abraham et al.,

I find it strange that all religions attest to the infinite nature of God, and yet so many religious followers insist that there is only one "right" definition of God.

It's like holding up a paper cup of ocean water and saying, "This and this alone is the ocean."  Or pointing a telescope at one small segment of the sky and saying "This and and this alone is the sky."  When you think about it that way, isn't it pretty ridiculous?

Who God is or isn't, or even whether God is or isn't, is just as much a matter of experience as anything else.  I have personal experience with God, and I also have a personal religious preference that is congruent with my experience of God--notice I didn't say my experience of God is congruent with my religion.  Science, metaphysics, and spirituality are also congruent with my experience of God (and everything else).

If that's not true for you, then that's not true for you.  But to me, it's as true as anything can be.  And there is no place for judgment on either of our parts.  It's really that simple.  And that's the great thing about sharing experiences with people... it builds bridges rather than walls.  No one has the same religious/spiritual experiences I do, and yet we often have very similar experiences (such as with astral projection).  

The balance of diversity and commonality among people is one of the greatest testaments to the infinite nature of the Creator.  If you can't accept and appreciate that, then I can't help but wonder how much you can have really experienced the Creator.  If you allow yourself to experience other people, and to respect their experiences, you might just arrive at a greater understanding of everything.

OK, enough of the :soapbox:
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« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2005, 05:35:42 »

Quote
First off, on the subject of Jesus being God or the Son of God, you have to realize that a fundamental part of the Christian doctrine is the concept of the trinity.  That is, that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all separate entities, and yet are the same being all at once.  So Jesus can be the son of God, and God at the same time.

And for anyone who thinks that's ridiculous, I just have to say this, "Higher selves."  Same concept, different application.


First you have to prove that "higher selves" actually exist. If thats not possible then there is no point of further discussion.


Quote

Anyways, onto this guy's tirade.  You do realize that the bible supposedly has all the exact same proofs behind it too, right?  Solid block of logic, no contradictions (I've researched a lot of the supposed ones, still have yet to find one), miracles were performed and witnessed by many a audience, blah blah.


Actually the Bible is known to have contradictions and that it wasnt "all God's word" . It is known to have verses which were written by men and not God. This is even testified to by the catholic church:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

Quote
I'm sure other religions have the same kinda backing, although I'm sure other ones also have contradictions, but that's not the point.

The point is, how do you know your God is the right God and not someone elses?  You are basing your entire beliefs off of some dude who pulled a book out of his butt and some supposed miracles that you never saw for yourself?  What proof has this God given to you in your life that he exists, and how do you know that they are in fact from your God and not due to another being or coincidence?


The Qur'an is proof, and the history of the Prophet Muhammad sws which was well-documented is proof. The very fact that he could not read or write, and he recited a book which is unique, eloquent and without contradiction(read it yourself) is proof that it is from the All-Knowing Creator. And if you say that its from sort of 'astral being' that too is ridiculous, for first you would have to prove the astral is actually in existence.


Quote
Faith.  That's what it is.  You have taken your religion's supposed facts on faith, your God's existence on faith.  Christians have taken their God's existance on faith.


Islam is faith in proofs from God, Christianity is faith in a book and a concept that isnt even proven 'authentic'

American Encyclopedia:

The belief in the Oneness of God – as a theological movement – began at a very early stage in history, and in fact it preceded the belief in trinity by many decades. Christianity developed from Judaism, and Judaism firmly believes that there is one God.

The path that led from Jerusalem (the home of the first disciples of Christ) to Nicea (where it was decided in 325 CE that Christ was equal to God in essence and eternal nature) can hardly be described as a straight path.

The doctrine of trinity which was affirmed in the fourth century CE bears no resemblance to the original teachings of Christ concerning the nature of God. Au contraire, it is the opposite, a deviation from that teaching. Hence it developed in opposition to the belief in One God… (27/294).


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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2005, 05:52:29 »

Quote
Quote from: Almost Mrs. Murphy
Abraham et al.,

I find it strange that all religions attest to the infinite nature of God, and yet so many religious followers insist that there is only one "right" definition of God.


The problem is you are speaking without any proof. First you say that God is "infinite", although you have no knowledge of that. If you  mean that He is infinite in that His knowledge encompasses everything, or that He can create what He wills, then that is a different matter. Islam says, not simply its "religious followers" that God is one and Unique

"Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.
Allah, the Self-sufficent Master,
"He begets not, nor was He begotten;
"And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him." [Surah Al-Ikhas]

This is also testified in other 'religious texts' such as what has been attributed to Jesus in the New Testament:

“One of the teachers of the law came and noticed them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’

‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” [ Mark 12:28-30 – NIV ]

So by saying that only the Creator is God, or only the Sustainer of all that exists is God, or only the Being which carries certain attributes is God, is what is testified in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Qur'an.

Whats ridiculous is syaing that if i worship a piece of poo or a stone, then i am "worshipping a part of God" or that it will somehow "bring me closer to God". Thats ridiculous.




Quote
It's like holding up a paper cup of ocean water and saying, "This and this alone is the ocean."  Or pointing a telescope at one small segment of the sky and saying "This and and this alone is the sky."  When you think about it that way, isn't it pretty ridiculous?


Holding up a paper cup of ocean water saying "This and this alone is the ocean" is rational. Holding up a paper cup of dirt and saying "this is god or part of god" is irrational and a complete lie. Worshipping God based upon knowledge that He is taught us is worshipping God, no matter how much "little knowledge" of Him our minds think that is. Worshipping Him based upon our own speculations and fabrications is complete nonsense.
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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2005, 05:52:29 »



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Abraham
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« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2005, 06:02:01 »

Quote from: OATH_
Abraham,

 sad

Understand that the reason for our explorations is to find the truth, we seek it, good or bad, we seek it and we accept. You are one man speaking to thousands on this forum that what each of us has found is a lie.


That is why I invite every person on this forum to the religion of Al-Islaam, in hope that maybe someone will be guided by God to it, and be able to live their lives in peace and submission to Him, free from any doubt or speculation.
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« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2005, 06:07:40 »

http://www.submission.org/illiteracy.html

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Hoaxes/illiterate.html
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« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2005, 06:09:25 »

Quote from: Abraham
Quote from: OATH_
Abraham,

 sad

Understand that the reason for our explorations is to find the truth, we seek it, good or bad, we seek it and we accept. You are one man speaking to thousands on this forum that what each of us has found is a lie.


That is why I invite every person on this forum to the religion of Al-Islaam, in hope that maybe someone will be guided by God to it, and be able to live their lives in peace and submission to Him, free from any doubt or speculation.


Submission? Forget it!
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James S
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« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2005, 06:21:31 »

Your arguments only go in circles Abraham.

You continually insist that no-one here can provide you with any proof, but neither can you!

I've not yet seen one shred of proof or evidence of any kind that your own beliefs can be substantiated in any way.

Quote
The Qur'an is proof, and the history of the Prophet Muhammad sws which was well-documented is proof.

The only real proof of the Qu'ran being historically accurate is the Quaran itself. Just like the Bible. No secular historian can substantiate either as being historically accurate.

Besides, what's the big deal with having to prove your own beliefs true, and the beliefs of others as false?
Are you that insecure in your beliefs?
Do you not realise that such futile arguments are only taking you further away from the wonderful spiritual guidance contained within the Qu'ran?
Should you not look to the teachings of the Prophet as being a source of personal guidance and inspiration, rather than a tool for criticising the beliefs of others?

Sadly, the Qu'ran, as well as the Bible, are rarely used in a way that is true to their original intent.

James.
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Blackstream
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« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2005, 06:32:19 »

Quote from: Abraham

First you have to prove that "higher selves" actually exist. If thats not possible then there is no point of further discussion.

I was just explaining the Christian doctrine and putting it in terms that most astral projectors are familiar with.  Whether or not the trinity or higher selves exist is irrelevent, I was just pointing out they were similar before someone said it was dumb.

Quote
Actually the Bible is known to have contradictions and that it wasnt "all God's word" . It is known to have verses which were written by men and not God. This is even testified to by the catholic church:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

The catholic church isn't representative of the Christian religion, but rather the Catholic religion.  Christian's don't give a damn if the pope says the bible isn't neccessarily completely true.  If I was a catholic, I'd either assume the church had been corrupted and go by my old teachings, or I'd dump the entire religion.  You can't live a religion not knowing what teachings are true and what teachings are false.

Anyways, for every supposed contradiction out there, there's an explaination out there on the web.  Not that it really matters, because this is about your religion, not mine.

Quote
The Qur'an is proof, and the history of the Prophet Muhammad sws which was well-documented is proof. The very fact that he could not read or write, and he recited a book which is unique, eloquent and without contradiction(read it yourself) is proof that it is from the All-Knowing Creator. And if you say that its from sort of 'astral being' that too is ridiculous, for first you would have to prove the astral is actually in existence.

You base this proof on an assumption.  That is, that it proves the existance of God.  All it proves is that Muhammad uttered something that was a solid block of logic (supposedly, I haven't looked into the religion to see if this is actually the case).  This proves nothing else.  

Anything else from there is a deduction on your part.  You see this and see an all-mighty creator.  However, another explaination could be a trickster devil called Satan whose trying to create a false religion to confuse the masses.  He whispers this full book into his ear, word for word (and Satan would be more than smart enough to make sure it didn't have contradictions, and give it predictions that should come true and odd facts that no one should know).  

Another explaination could be a God residing on the astral realm giving this stuff out.  Another explaination could be somebody behind the scenes helping him.  Magicians do crazy stuff all the time in front of live audiences.  You weren't there, you don't know what might have really happened.  

If you say you have to prove the existance of the astral realm in order for that explaination to be valid, then heck, I want you to prove the existance of God and heaven for your explaination to be valid.  

Demanding we give proof for the existance of what we believe, while you don't have to give proof of what you believe because you think your side is obviously true is completely unfair.
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« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2005, 08:25:40 »

Why are you all wasting your time arguing with him?Huh Dont you think as an online community that we have more important things at hand???  Abraham:   Why do you come to a forum that is so different from your beliefs and try to change our viewpoint?  I am sorry if you feel you are here to shed the light onto us and our sorcerous and pagan beliefs but its all for not!!!!  Can't you see that?  This forum is for open minded and exploratory reasons, not some dogmatic justification or forcing of views on others.  Kindly find another place to spread your hate and leave us to our own devices.  

I have come so far simply from opening up to new ideas and exploring myself and my beliefs, I am sorry you cant feel the same.  Its a dog eat dog world out there, even when it comes to beliefs and I am sorry not everyone can feel the same way you can.  We are a tight community here. Claiming we are false gods and saying we are on crack isnt the way to an open and welcomed dialog here.  Dont you see the hate and confrontational nature of your posts?  The blind irrational nature of your beliefs?  Please.... spare the members here your time and move on.

If you wish to challenge us and post your own experiences feel free, but until then kindly mosey on to greener pastures.   Thanks.
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« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2005, 08:38:44 »

They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris [virgin girls] We shall wed them. . . . Fruit We shall give them, and such meats as they desire... and there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls.
Q 52:13-24

They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who to the beholders eyes will seem like sprinkled pearls. When you gave upon that scene, you will behold a kingdom blissful and glorious.
Q 76:9-20

They are to cohabit with demure virgins...as beauteous as corals and rubies...full-breasted maidens for playmates...in the gardens of delight.... They're to lie face to face on jewelled couches, and be serviced by immortal youths...young boys, their personal property, as comely as virgin pearls.... We created the houris [dancing girls] and made them virgins, carnal playmates for those on the right hand.... We are going to wed them to dark-eyed houris. [The Koran 55:56; 55:58; 78:33; 56:12; 52:16-17, 24; 56:35-38; 52:20]

Each Muslim man, in exchange for a lifetime of mindless obedience, will be rewarded after death with an unspecified number of pretty boys to bugger, who never grow up,  plus eight heavenly houris who magically re-grow their hymens so that he can deflower them over and over for eternity.
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« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2005, 12:15:58 »

Quote from: Abraham
Quote from: OATH_
Abraham,

 sad

Understand that the reason for our explorations is to find the truth, we seek it, good or bad, we seek it and we accept. You are one man speaking to thousands on this forum that what each of us has found is a lie.


That is why I invite every person on this forum to the religion of Al-Islaam, in hope that maybe someone will be guided by God to it, and be able to live their lives in peace and submission to Him, free from any doubt or speculation.



Hmmm ok. Well I decline, and im pretty sure just about everyone else has, are you aware of this or are you too far deep and confused yourself?

I went to see god yesterday. I saw his spirit, it was golden brilliance, and it didnt have any real shape or form. I have never heard anything where god calls himself allah. I have heard Jah (as in Jehova?--samuljah. samael-poisen of god) and el and he has never said anything to the contrary when I call him god. I claim no religion, I believe in god and try to please him...make him happy of me. again trying to force people, if they ask tell them, if not leave everyone alone you are only causing problems. although I do think this is a good topic and gives me a chance to look deeper into the subject matter and share my views with everyone else  smiley
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« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2005, 14:03:49 »

I was just curious.  What's so important about proof?  Is it to satisfy the ego?  I was just wondering.

Abraham, I have a question.  Well actually I guess this question is also for those that focus on a religious sect like christianity, muslim, islam, etc.  What happens if I don't follow God?
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« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2005, 14:06:45 »

Quote from: knightlight
Why are you all wasting your time arguing with him?Huh Dont you think as an online community that we have more important things at hand???  Abraham:   Why do you come to a forum that is so different from your beliefs and try to change our viewpoint?  I am sorry if you feel you are here to shed the light onto us and our sorcerous and pagan beliefs but its all for not!!!!  Can't you see that?  This forum is for open minded and exploratory reasons, not some dogmatic justification or forcing of views on others.  Kindly find another place to spread your hate and leave us to our own devices.  

I have come so far simply from opening up to new ideas and exploring myself and my beliefs, I am sorry you cant feel the same.  Its a dog eat dog world out there, even when it comes to beliefs and I am sorry not everyone can feel the same way you can.  We are a tight community here. Claiming we are false gods and saying we are on crack isnt the way to an open and welcomed dialog here.  Dont you see the hate and confrontational nature of your posts?  The blind irrational nature of your beliefs?  Please.... spare the members here your time and move on.

If you wish to challenge us and post your own experiences feel free, but until then kindly mosey on to greener pastures.   Thanks.


Hehe, yeah this is pretty much a pointless thread, but atm moment it's kind of fun to play around with.

Oh, and sorry for the double post.  I was making a reply from page 6 then saw page 7, lol.  cheesy
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« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2005, 15:47:03 »

Abraham-

  I agree that many people here jump to conclusion based upon focus 2 experiences, however I commend them for the simple act of seeking the truth and not following the dogma of religions that are so entrenched in politics to loose most aspect of spirituality.

However, I laughed so hard at your original post and was waiting for someone on here to catch on to the glaring irony of your post/beliefs.  Almost the entire religion of Islam is based off of Muhammad's travel through the heavens and hells, which is MOST DEFINITELY an astral travel (Focus 2 or 3 is debatable).  I find it amusing that you would criticize people here for doing the exact same thing that Muhammad did.  

The only difference I see is that the members here are not lobbying the Christian faith to be pronounced a profit, and after being denied vowing to destroy the Christian faith.  I think Muhammad had a bit of a chip on his shoulder after this rejection by the Christian church.(praise be to him in heaven).

I love you though, you make me laugh.

Han
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« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2005, 16:56:56 »

Quote
Holding up a paper cup of ocean water saying "This and this alone is the ocean" is rational.


Well, I think this just about says it all.  What about the ocean water on the other side of the world?  Or miles beneath the surface in regions no human has ever visited?  If the ocean is so unfathomable, don't you think God is infinitely more so?  I believe in God as I've experienced Him, and while I do happen to be a practicing Catholic because it upholds and verifies my experience of God more than other denominations or religions do, my experience of God is my own truth, and no one will ever convince me it's false.  Nor do I remotely care to try to win others over to my personal truth, because that would just be arrogant and narrow-minded.

Quote
That is why I invite every person on this forum to the religion of Al-Islaam, in hope that maybe someone will be guided by God to it, and be able to live their lives in peace and submission to Him, free from any doubt or speculation.


If the Koran itself didn't make a Muslim of me (and yes, I did give it a chance), neither you nor anyone else will, either.  I already live my life in peace and submission to God, free from doubt and speculation--if I didn't I probably wouldn't be here right now.  No religion, culture, philosophy, or nation has a monopoly on that.  If you love Islam and your fellow Muslims so much, why don't you concern yourself more with them, and less with us?  Why not try to change the hearts of terrorists and dictators, and provide relief to the innocent people who have been oppressed, murdered, and tortured by them in their own homelands, rather than try to interfere with perfectly decent, intelligent, and peaceful people who are just minding their own business in their own Web forums?

Quote
Well actually I guess this question is also for those that focus on a religious sect like christianity, muslim, islam, etc. What happens if I don't follow God?


Dear Kailaurius, one of the most important distinctions anyone can make is that between following religion and following God.  Religion doesn't always lead one to knowledge of God.  And not everyone who seeks (and finds) knowledge of God adheres to a religion.  There are lots of people out there who disagree with this, of course, but there are also plenty of us who disagree with them.  The disagreements themselves are a good indicator of how imperfect religion as a whole is.  It goes back to my analogy of definining the ocean by a cupful of water... lots of people like to do that with God, and they create entire religions around it.  The religions are really just about the cup of water, not the whole ocean.  And I assure you that lots of religious people understand this!  I hope that helps!  smiley
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« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2005, 17:30:19 »

i was waiting for someone to get to the virgins. i'm not going to comment on that, but it's the glitch for me in all religions...the prize at the end of the party for good behavior. and when people start talking about books actually 'authored' by GOD 'himself'...well...they're always awfully large books to swallow whole.

something inside always wants to take it to the lowest common denominator. in my mind there is always an island with two completely innocent/ignorant, knowledge-less youth (male & female) in a succulent paradise that they eventually populate with family, and then somehow it fast-forwards (koyaanisqatski style) to our current situation.

when once it was all so simple. the sun rising each morning setting a rhythm, the moon waxing & waining and it's subtle effects of the tides, the seasons...when certain plants & trees blossomed into flower, gave way to fruits, then seeds...that sprouted and began again. no concept of god, just your own "relationship" with the world around you. nothing separate...everything effecting everything. but somehow in the little similarities of 'this & that', patterns were established, conclusions and preferences were made and things began to separate into likes and dislikes.

i think of that time as 'a place before fear'...as i stand here on the opposite side of existences looking back over all that lays in between. nothing has changed...just our mind-set. i have no idea when GOD actually came on the scene as a white-bearded old man that oversees all...that rewards reverence with virgins, and punishes with pestilence?!? with all the common sense i have...i can't help but think that mother earth/nature came first...as the natural world, it's cycles, mystery and nurturing sustenance...is the total embodiment of the feminine. it only makes sense that the representation of 'both' aspects (male & female) were present when the idle past time of worship came into play.

again i see where the male-based 'religions' (belief systems) worked best to manipulate and control larger populations with 'fear of the unknown', keeping everyone in line with reward of the after-life, etc. divine systems functioned more in the here 'n' now, with the earth as home, etc. it fed, and healed, and treated all inhabitants as equally responsible...and was therefore buried along the way. you can't run a tight ship with some all-embracing/all-forgiving female in the way!

yada-yada-yada...just a fragment of my perspective.

Quote
The Qur'an is proof, and the history of the Prophet Muhammad sws which was well-documented is proof. The very fact that he could not read or write, and he recited a book which is unique, eloquent and without contradiction(read it yourself) is proof that it is from the All-Knowing Creator.


or ALIENS! wink
give me proof that GOD exists, and i WILL introduce you to a very interesting group of extra-terrestrials!!!

i'll say i'm a "non-believer" only bcuz my function does not rely solely on what "I" believe to be going on, nor does it require a support system of like-minds to validate my experience, nor does it require proof.
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Greenrat
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« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2005, 18:11:45 »

abraham = fake

get over it.

its just some guy doing what he can to make muslims seem like lunatics.

and why argue if he's for real? its obvious nothings gonna make him broaden his beleifs so your wasting your time.
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« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2005, 18:33:53 »

So much confusion on this thread. From reading Abraham's posts as well as most others offering serious debate I think you guys actually agree to alot more than you realize. First of all God is just a title. God as a sentient being, would not have a name for himself. Assuming God is even aware of himself, which is just as likely as not likely, (hard to explain, but I could basically see it as complete outward focus of attention, creating and knowing only the creation itself) he likely does not have a name for himself. Assuming he does in fact know all (all that is all of existance as has been created from him) he is likely intelligent and wise beyond our comprehension. Or perhaps we who are created in his image so says the bible, so we could be just as capable of his intelligence/wisdom... we also have the ability of creation (dreams? not to mention the idea that we mold our own reality either individually or collectively). Even in that theory if we are pieces of God and he is the top of the pyramid so to speak he would collectively have our minds and thus LIKELY be much superior in knowing and wisdom. Regardless of which theory you arrive at, in your theory you must agree that God is not petty enough to care about things as silly as human practices involving religion, what name they worship God under, etc.. In fact I HIGHLY doubt God has created all that is in order to be worshipped or praised. Some would argue that regardless of whether he wanted us to, he deserves it? Perhaps, but I imagine if that were the case he'd much rather us just live our lives that he has given us- would that not be praise enough. On the virgins topic I think that's simply meant as an example of Heaven not necessarily meant to be taken literally. As is much of each religious book. Ultimately they are written by human men (and women =p), and that in itself guarantees flaws. They are useful to put us on that road towards meeting/understanding God but I think the true road lies in self-discovery and not in following those books word for word. Use your mind, the greatest gift God has given you. Search for him within YOU, and not within a book. There you'll find all the answers you need. Question everything that is outside of yourself- which is the entire world.

Sadly I can't write nearly nearly nearly as much as I would like to on this subject. I already forgot 3/4 of what I was planning to write before I started my post. And I apologize for the lack of paragraphs.

(Btw, these are just some of the many possible ideas/scenarios and do not represent what I personally believe on the topic.)
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« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2005, 19:38:19 »

Quote from: Blackstream
Demanding we give proof for the existance of what we believe, while you don't have to give proof of what you believe because you think your side is obviously true is completely unfair.

The concept of fair and unfair is for another topic. Unfortunately, I think focusing on them is only useful if you can convince others to their guidelines.

Cliche #028974326: Life is unfair. Deal with it.
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Leyla
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« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2005, 20:40:21 »

Souljah333 - I also find it interesting that my post was ignored.

You and I, as women, are apparently the only ones who would be horrofied by the idea of "heaven" as having your virginity painfully torn open over and over again, for eternity.

(I will make no comment about the pretty little boys.)
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Nay
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« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2005, 02:07:15 »

Quote from: Leyla
Souljah333 - I also find it interesting that my post was ignored.

You and I, as women, are apparently the only ones who would be horrofied by the idea of "heaven" as having your virginity painfully torn open over and over again, for eternity.

(I will make no comment about the pretty little boys.)


Hahahaha!!!

Didn't we burn our bras to become equal?   Consider it the boys ignoring ya'll......just like one of the guys.  wink

Me, myself and I, enjoy being one of the guys.  You can burp loudly and tell dirty jokes!  

Womens lib is so much different in these fanciful times.  I'll allow you to open the door for me........as long as I don't get there first, in that case, I'll open it.  wink

Nay
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« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2005, 04:22:05 »

Really, what is there to say?  That whole notion is vile and abhorrent and the #1 reason I wrote Islam off in high school.  Yeah, I really believe that's the word of God.  rolleyes  I've always wondered what that means to Muslim women.  By the sound of it, they don't get to experience Heaven.

Nay, I always seem to get the best of both worlds... the men in my life respect me and treat me as a lady, but also like it when I am not-so-ladylike.  I think it puts them at ease.  And I can generally get away with behaving any way I please. :mrgreen:
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Blackstream
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« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2005, 06:15:57 »

Quote from: Ybom
Quote from: Blackstream
Demanding we give proof for the existance of what we believe, while you don't have to give proof of what you believe because you think your side is obviously true is completely unfair.

The concept of fair and unfair is for another topic. Unfortunately, I think focusing on them is only useful if you can convince others to their guidelines.

Cliche #028974326: Life is unfair. Deal with it.


Why are you nitpicking on one word?  You could put many other words there that work just as well.  Hypocritical, ironic, faulty reasoning, circular logic, and so on.  When it comes right down to it, he's doing exactly the same thing he's accusing us of doing.  That is, taking experiences and assuming things about them because they are obviously so (to the observer).
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