The true costs of war

[Jenadots]

Maybe this is a little bit catty [], but we are getting reports that on Day 1 of Al Jezeera's English broadcast, they have already been "hacked" by American hackers.  The story did make me laugh as they do try to present themselves as an unbiased source of information.  

I would like to see some of their broadcasts for another point of view, but would be even more skeptical of their stories than I am of CNN or Fox News.  

As to the real cost of the war -- I have no doubt that our American and British grandchildren will be paying off the war and rebuilding debts.  And no doubt, that some Iraqi's will hate us for the rest of their lives.  Terrorists will use this as an excuse to attack and the many Iraqi sub groups will use it as an excuse to attack each other.

Much depends on what the Iraqi National Conference is able to accomplish in the way of its proposed constitution after the war is over.  Hopefully, whatever government is finally established, it will not be another dictatorship but one that will share all that oil wealth with the millions of very poor Iraqi people who have to depend on government hand-outs for food.  They will need economic reform as much as they need a stable, reasonable government.  

I wonder what they will want to do with Saddam's hundred or so palaces?  

I hate that we are at war, but since we are, I do hope and pray that the Iraqi people come out of this better off than they were before.

[Celeste]

Last nite on Discovery channel a documentary "why did the events of 9/11 take place? I taped it & haven't watched it yet. You might be able to download it off the internet but I don't know.

  The U.S. Embassador sounded like nothing more than some mafia 'hood' spewing threats. How dare they-- because they are fascist.  I am so Glad to be Canadian. I only wish we wouldn't be this close & we should of tried to achieve independent economic status. We could have if our businessmen & politicians wouldn't have been so greedy & stupid. I know this won't be close to happening. We will be exposed to the same tactics of control.   This war was a big mistake.  They will fall in time but much more trouble is ahead.  Time to really pray & hone your intuition in order to avoid some of what is to come. There is a large battle being waged between Good & evil & evil has got the upper hand at this pt.  Pray for the increasing Omnipresent Power of the LIGHT over the darkness. Watch for the distractions that keep you from prayer & don't let it.

  Celeste

[Rob]

On holiday, not time to read posts so please forgive me if someone has already said this but I had an idea which seems kinda important....

.....has anyone actually bothered to ask the Iraqi people what they want??

- Rob in Cusco, Peru, going to Machu Picchu tomorrow hehe

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Considering this topic I started was about the "true cost of war", this BBC news article ironic to say the least:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2899823.stm

Quote from the article:

The White House continues to say that troops in Iraq are making progress, but the article quotes a former intelligence official as saying the war was now a stalemate.

The article says the army is running out of cruise missiles and precision guided bombs, and that there are maintenance problems with tanks.

"The only hope is that they can hold out until reinforcements arrive," the official told the magazine.

Looks like a few billions dollars wasted on weapons of destruction, and which could have been spent on food and other humanitarian needs, has got the "allies" precisly nowhere to speak of.

This war should be stopped right now and re-thought. If this is allowed to go to the streets of Bagdhad, the consequences will be horrendous for both sides, and in particular innocent civilains, not to mention the aftermath in all manifestations elsewhere.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Kristen]

Hi Adrian -

Um....  it is always good practice to never take at face value anything any media outlet of any source puts together about anything.  I would not trust any report about war efforts on any side of this or any other conflict.  Even if former intelligence sources (or even current ones) are quoted.  All media is biased and contains "spin."  In other words, the facts are not necessarily facts, and even if the sources are factual there is always an element of treating the "facts" with a slant.  This is a fundamental truth of life just as death and taxes are.

The United States has been in Iraq in this latest war effort for how many days?  Do you really think that the United States has run out of weapons at this point?  The US is never going to run out of weapons because the US military complex is well funded and has a stable and well greased infrastructure.  It can make weapons quickly and easily. As far as mechanical problems go, tanks always have mechanical issues, as do helicopters, fighter jets or any other mechanical tool of war.  This has been and always will be the case.  That is why the US Army, Marines and Airforce have divisions of dedicated mechanical specialists.

My husband was an airborne army military policeman who served in Panama and Kuwait.  I can't tell you how many times he has told me what "pieces of excrement" his equipment was... how machine guns jammed... how humvies were duct-taped and bubble-gummed together, how parachutes can fail...  One of my cousins used to be an Army tank specialist... While in his opinion they are incredible machines, they require constant mechanical maintenance.  I have a brother-in-law who is an Airforce aircraft mechanic... same story.  My father was an Airforce navigator who flew refuling missions over Vietnam among other things... refuling is a delicate operation requiring mechanical integrity to work properly and sometimes things break down.  Bottom line is that it just doesn't matter.  If a plane, tank, machine gun or helicopter malfunction or go down, there is more where they came from. If the US looses or pulls out of war in Iraq, it will be for strategic and political reasons, not just simply because of deficient hardware.

2 cents
KB

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Some disappointing developments coming out of the news networks.

Looks like the "allied forces" are going to have to "dig-in" for weeks and halt the advance, pending re-supplies, and another few hundred thousand more troops. This invasion has not proceeded according to plan, and looks as if it will escalate. Some people obviously did not learn the lessons of Vietnam, Panama etc.. How the allies intend to deal with the Iraqi military in their own streets is another thing again. Definite bad and dark vibes out of this.

What I found most incredible though is Colin Powell warning (threatening) Syria and Iran about their roles in terrorism. Here are the troops - peoples family members - and the Iraqi people suffering, and at huge costs of all kinds, and here they are planning the next invasions already. Libya after that no doubt.

This is being driven by dark forces, and already it is getting completely out of control as they intended. This has to be stopped! After Afghanistan and Iraq they look towards Syria, Iran and no doubt Libya.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Anonymous]

before you know it, the whole world will be under one government. I suppose there are worse countries that could be in power. I certainly wouldn't want Iraq to be in our position. Or North Korea. Or China for that matter (though they'll probably obtain equal or superior power anyway if they haven't already).

[bomohwkl]

Bush said by disarming Saddam through invasion of Iraq and pre-emptive strike, the threat of terrorism will be diminished. I wonder how many people in the world really agree on that. Inflating people hatred particularly in middle east will lead to more terrorism. I wonder whether Bush is intelligent enough to predict  this. Anyway, nowadays, terrorism is a mobile organisation.
Anyway, who bring Bush into power?

[Anonymous]

To be honest with you, I don't think Bush gives a flying f**k about the american people or what happens to them. He cares only about his selfish interests and motives. Don't count on him listening to the American people. Even during 9/11 I noticed a disturbing absence of emotion from him when he spoke. The flat tone in his voice, which seems to be there during his happiest days as well as his saddest, told me that he doesn't care about us. His ratings went up after this tragedy. Why? Because people believed that maybe this woke him up and that maybe he'd get us through. Did he? No. It was the American people who took care of this problem- Firemen, police officers, and hospitals, and other volunteers. What did Bush really do? He made speeches about how we were going to get the terrorists back.

Now he's using this terrorist event to justify every one of his actions. Why are we at war with Iraq? Because of the terrorists. Why did we go to war with Afghanistan? Because of the terrorists. Why are our freedoms disappearing right before our eyes? Because if we don't the terrorists will get us.

Most people in this country have protested the war. Did he listen to us? No. Instead he enacted the patriot act and set up "relocation camps" for "possible terrorists" which includes basically anyone who is against him. Bush is nothing more than a fascist fake. He's one of the presidents I dislike the most. In fact, I'd say he really is the worst "president" our country has ever seen. I wish people would wake up and stop thinking like sheep. We need a rebellion or an uprising of some kind.

Somewhere in the Constition it states that it is the duty of the American people to rise up against corruption in the government. the DUTY. Responsibility. Our government is corrupt through and through. As a patriot, I believe the time has come. What would great men such as George Washington and Abraham Lincoln say about our country today? They would not stand for it. Why should we? I propose that we have one day six months from now where NOBODY goes to work, school, or church. Do you realize how screwed our country's economy would be if this happened? It could NEVER recover. Just from ONE DAY. They would be forced to change the system. This is good because it would be done in a nonviolent way. And that's what we need.

I feel the time is now for me to make a difference. But I cannot do it alone. I've thrown out a suggestion to fix the problem with our country as of now. If anyone has a better one, please share it. The bottom line is, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE--- NOW. No more waiting. The time has come to take action.

[bomohwkl]

The important thing is to get the idea of silent protest across people who already protesting on the street.

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Yale professor William Nordhaus has calculated the cost of an invasion and reconstitution of Iraq to be as much as $1.92 Trillion!

What sort of obsenity is this to conduct a totally unjustified invasion, which most of the world is against including the colleagues and political parties of the leader and of course the United  (using the word advisedly) Nations, and when there is so much genuine misery in the world due to disease and famine?

We have discussed this at length in the other topic, but I just wanted to highlight the extremeness of the actions of Bush and his cohorts, and who are unquestionably under the control of the forces of darkness if they did but know it.

This decade is probably one of the most crucial ever to mankind as the physical planet, and everything on it undergo a dimensional and etheric "shift", and relatively few are in a position to shift with it. The dark forces - which are extremely real and very powerful - know this, and which is why we are increasingly seeing situations like 9/11, Afghanistan and now Iraq, and later, unless attitudes shift - North Korea and various other countries that most definitely have weapons of mass destruction and are prepared to use them.

Aside from overt war, the fallout of terror that could well result from lunacy is beyond the comprehension of Bush (as most things are).

This war is as good as a certainty now - please therefore send your positive energies and Love to all of those involved, and in particular to all of those needy people who will see these trillions of dollars spent on the instruments of mass destruction, instead of countless tons of food and other tangible assistance.

And all this in the name of glory, power and oil.

And Bush is a "born again christian".

Please let me remind you of the Twin Hearts Meditation:

http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/energy-healing/pranic-healing/healing-meditation.asp

http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/energy-healing/pranic-healing/twin-heart-meditation.asp

With best regards,

Adrian.